Mike:
Hello, and welcome to the Eyes on Jesus Podcast with Archbishop Allen Vigneron. I'm your host, Mike Chamberland.
Mary:
And I'm your host Mary Wilkerson.
Mike:
We're excited to release new episodes once a month, so please make sure to subscribe and review wherever it is that you listen to podcasts. Archbishop, welcome and thank you so much for joining us again. How have you been?
Archbishop Vigneron:
I've been very well. Thank you, Mike. I had some days of vacation, so beautiful to be out and about in northern Michigan.
Mike:
Oh, northern Michigan. Okay, great.
Archbishop Vigneron:
Yeah, Pure Michigan. I'm ready to do the commercial.
Mike:
[Laughs] You and Tim Allen. That's great. That's awesome. Any specific place?
Archbishop Vigneron:
Well, I usually spend some days in the priest cabin at Camp Sancta Maria, which is a great joy for me. I was a counselor there. I was chaplain and I have a great investment, belief, confidence in what the camp accomplishes as a way of formation. So it's a joy to be there.
Mary:
I was able to send my sons there this summer, and my nephews went as well. And I was so impressed with the ministry that they do. They're kind of, and it, you say it on some commercial on YouTube, I think for Camp Sancta Maria, but it's allowing kids to enjoy so many different environments and skills, but also grounded in this real faith beauty. And so I was so impressed when they came home from camp. It was so cool.
Mike:
I know, Archbishop, you're celebrating — just recently you celebrated your 25 years as a bishop. You know, I saw some coverage in the Detroit Catholic and I know you were able to come together and mark the occasion and kind of celebrate with other priests and deacons. And how was that for you just to celebrate 25 years? You know, what has been, you know, a big lesson you've learned as a bishop for 25 years now?
Archbishop Vigneron:
Mike, it was a great opportunity to give God praise and thanks for his fidelity to me. I'm certainly unworthy of this trust that he's given to me, but you know, that's what Peter said to him, "Depart from me, Lord, I'm a sinful man," and he wasn't going to take that, was he? He came right back at him. And so I'm aware of the shortcomings I brought to this, but have so much to give God praise and thanks for, and I particularly have been thinking about all of the wonderful people I've been able to know and work with and who have been part of my life for these 25 years. That was in some ways the best part of it, was thinking about the people God has given me in these 25 years, imagine what heaven's going to be like to be with them all the time.
Mike:
I know. Archbishop, remind me of the history a little bit. So I know you were named — I believe you were named an Auxiliary Bishop of Detroit first. And then when — for how long did you do that before you were sent to Oakland?
Archbishop Vigneron:
I was named an Auxiliary Bishop in 1996 and right at New Year's of 2003, I got the call from the Nuncio that Holy Father was sending me to Oakland, and I was in Oakland for little more than six years.
Mike:
Okay. And then you came to Detroit in 2009, correct?
Archbishop Vigneron:
Right.
Mike:
Right. Okay. Very good.
Mary:
I know you don't — you're not necessarily on Instagram stories all the time, but I will tell you on your 25th anniversary, my social media — so many people had posted that they were praying for you and that they were excited for you and grateful for you. There was a sense — there was a real sense of excitement for you and also thanksgiving for the ministry that you've done. You know, was it a little bit like when, you know, when we have significant wedding anniversaries, we take some time to almost be reflective on the ways that God has moved in the last, like 10 years of our marriage. Do you do a little bit about, a little bit of that as you approach these big, significant milestones?
Archbishop Vigneron:
A lot of that Mary, but, you know, I don't know if it's — how it might work comparably, but it just doesn't seem like that long. It seems like just yesterday, and then as you begin to chronicle it, you realize how rich it all is. To say one of the things that gives me the greatest joy is for people to say that they have found something I've done, or some things that I do to help them grow in the faith, grow closer to the Lord, I mean, that's really — that's what I most want is to be that instrument. And what most saddens me is when I'm aware that somehow I might've impeded that.
Mary:
It's complicated. There's just like the highs—.
Archbishop Vigneron:
[laughs] Yeah, life's complicated.
Mary:
It sure is. But I will say there were a lot of people that were sharing that you have significantly, significantly impacted their faith. So.
Archbishop Vigneron:
Well I hope at the last judgment they get up and give their testimony [laughs]
Mary:
[laughs] That's true. Don't just keep it on Instagram, share it with the heavenly kingdom as well. That's great. We're excited for you and congratulations on 25 years, that's neat.
Mike:
Amen.
Mary:
Today we have the pleasure and the opportunity to talk about St. Anne, the grandmother of Jesus in honor of her feast day, which was just a few days ago on July 26. So to begin with, can you kind of remind us who St. Anne was and why she's so important to our faith?
Archbishop Vigneron:
Well we don't know from the sacred scriptures themselves the names of the parents of the blessed Virgin Mary, but from a very ancient tradition we understand them to have been named Joachim and Anna, which actually is the Arabic word for "grace". Anne, Hannah, Grace. They're all really the same name. And what was passed on from the earliest generations is that they were a sterile couple. And in fact, endured a certain amount of shame because there was a common belief among the Jews that if you didn't have children, it must mean that somehow you didn't deserve the blessing of continuing to propagate the the chosen people. And so, but they were very devout and they looked for, as the scripture, puts it the "hope of Israel". And eventually, in their old age, according to these traditions they were granted the favor of a daughter, the Blessed Virgin Mary, and the scripture puts it this way that — well, the liturgy borrows the texts from the scripture that puts it this way, that, "From the stock of Jesse has flowered a great blossom." So that this there, this was their great mission in the world, was to be the instrument by which God would prepare a mother for his son.
Archbishop Vigneron:
And so— I mean, it's very — that's the bare bones reality, but from what we know about human life and the way God works, we understand the role that these two parents played in the life of raising a devout daughter and they taught her how to be a Jew. And so she was able, along with Joseph, to teach Jesus, the ways of being a Jew. I mean, that's one way to think about it. They had this very important role in bringing about the incarnation, but in filling out the whole detail of it. I was thinking about it the other day how Our Lord would have seen the Blessed Virgin Mary preside at the Sabbath supper, light the lights. Well, how did Our Lady know how to do that? Well, her mom taught her. I mean, that the way that's the way girls learn — she knew how to cook. She knew how to be a mother, a wife to Joseph. She was taught that by Saint Anne.
Mike:
You know, I know that you mentioned earlier about the tradition, the fact that they were a childless couple for many years and even possibly kind of scorned or made fun of for that. I know obviously St. Anne is a patron of many things but also including, obviously, grandparents and childless couples. How are patronages kind of chosen for saints? Do you know how that kind of operates at the — is that like some, you know, office at the Vatican is sitting around in a formal process choosing these things, or is it kind of more informal or just connected to their stories? Do you know how that happens, Archbishop?
Archbishop Vigneron:
Well it's all those things, Mike, I think it's — most importantly it's informal. People feel a connection to a saint. One of the earliest forms of being — and being a patron is being kind of an advocate, somebody to accompany us. A buddy, you might call it that, really. That's not too formal. But when people named their children, a very devout thing is to give — name them so they have this patron, somebody who can accompany them all through their life. That's very typical. So it's informal, people and groups as well choose their own patron. If a patron is to be observed in the liturgical celebration, then it has to be re supervised by the Congregation for Liturgy in the Holy See. They have to okay that designation. And then sometimes the Holy Father himself will designate a patronage. For example Pius the 11th, I believe it was Pius the 11th that named St. Joseph the Patron of the Universal Church. So it's all those things.
Mary:
Right. Now, St. Anne is also the patron saint of the Archdiocese of Detroit. When did that happen? Historically? When did she become our patron saint?
Archbishop Vigneron:
I don't remember exactly the year. It wasn't too many years ago that it was officially recognized. And I wanted to be sure that the diocese had a patron and we didn't have an officially recognized patron. So what you have to do, what the Holy See asks for such a process is for the Bishop to consult the priests and the deacons and the lay faithful, who do they think should be a patron? And we did, we used electronic media. We did a lot of consultation. And in fact, St. Anne came out on top and I sent the documentation to the board of Cardinals that looks at all of this. And they wrote back and said in fact, from time immemorial — meaning, I don't know how many generations that is according to Church law, but it means, I think it means at least a century.
Archbishop Vigneron:
They said that in effect, St. Anne has been your patron in the life of the diocese in the way people think about her. And so rather than our declaring her, your patron, we are going to affirm that she has been your patron, which I thought was a beautiful way to put it. And there's a tremendous confidence in the instinct of the parishioners, the people, when it comes — they examine it to make sure it's sound, but they look, the leaders in the Vatican look at it as a kind of a confirmation of what's going on in the grassroots.
Mary:
Right. It's funny. It was hard for me to remember even if it was in my lifetime, that she was officially named the patron of the archdiocese because in my family, and I know so many parishioners in the Archdiocese of Detroit, she's always held such a special place. Like I remember St. Anne's Day, going with my grandmother down to, you know, Ste. Anne's in Detroit. It was just a part of our faith upbringing. So I just I love that you're saying that that's kind of how it happened. Like they were like, "Well, sure. 'Cause this is how it's been."
Archbishop Vigneron:
Well, you look at how many parish — in the churches of so many of our parishes, there's a statue of St. Anne. It has been very much a part of our life.
Mary:
Beautiful. Do you remember if there was any other saints that came close, but just didn't get the title of the patron of the archdiocese?
Archbishop Vigneron:
Well, some people would have liked Father Solanus, but I don't — he wasn't even Blessed at that time. Saint Joseph was on that list.
Mary:
Yep. How cool. That's really neat. And then when did you announce it to the faithful, like formally that this is the patron of the archdiocese?
Archbishop Vigneron:
Again, Mary, I don't remember the year, but as soon as I got the letter from the Holy See, I shared that news. And what it means is that from now on the the Memorial on the 26th of July, Joachim and Anne, is to be celebrated as a feast day with its own particular character. So that gives a shape to the, to the way the Mass is celebrated in this diocese on that day. And the way the liturgy of the hours is celebrated, it intensifies it. It moves it up a notch.
Mary:
That's great. Yeah.
Mike:
Now, Archbishop, I believe the Saint Anne as a patron for the archdiocese really kind of takes its root in our original Cadillac and the original settlement of Detroit back in 1701. Isn't that right? Because essentially when the settlers first arrived, they started to build and establish a church and they named it Saint Anne, even back in 1701, isn't that correct? Or is that—
Speaker 3:
You are right, Mike. It was just a couple of days after they landed. And they — the Europeans started to build, but I I'd like to take us back even a little farther. I mean, many of the the French explorers and clergy who came to New France came from Brittany, the Duchy in the northwest corner of France. And there was a great devotion to St. Anne there because there had been an apparition and also because of a devotion to a member of the royal family who was named Anne. So it was part of their own culture. These explorers brought that with them to new friends. One of the fruits of that of course, is the great shrine at St. Anne de Beaupre. So it was part of the faith culture that these settlers brought with them. And so it made all the sense in the world for them to see providentially that they would start this establishment this new village under the patronage of St. Anne.
Speaker 3:
And what I think is so beautiful about that is, it's a witness to the truth that just part of the very fabric of our community is faith that from the beginning it — there was not a divorce between faith and culture. And I think that's an important lesson, certainly for us Catholics. It reminds us that there are voices that want to sort of marginalize faith from culture. People protest that we shouldn't be living our convictions, our beliefs in the public square. We should keep it to ourselves and that that's not legitimate, but that's also true for people of other faith traditions. I mean, our non-Catholic brothers and sisters, our Jewish brothers and sisters, our Muslim brothers and sisters. We need to have a place in our society for the contributions they make because of their their conviction about the Lordship of God.
Mary:
So Ste. Anne's is the second oldest continuously operating parish in the United States, right after the—
Archbishop Vigneron:
Yeah. A lot of — you've got to have a lot of conditions in there.
Mary:
Listen, listen, it's first is the worst. Second is the best. So I'm just kidding. Okay. So after the Cathedral Basilica of St. Augustine in Florida, so that is the first continuously running cathedral. Right. But then St Anne's would be next. Right?
Archbishop Vigneron:
That's our claim.
Mary:
[laughs] Okay. So other than naming St. Anne our patron, what else have we done in the Archdiocese of Detroit to kind of honor and preserve this rich heritage that you're talking about, including like the settlers, like it's such a rich and deep heritage. How do we celebrate that as a diocese?
Archbishop Vigneron:
I think one of the most important ways is the annual Novena to St. Anne that the current rector and his predecessors before him at Ste. Anne's, tried to make the nine days leading up to the solemnity something for the whole diocese. I think that's very important. I try to encourage people to invoke St. Anne as part of just an ordinary prayer. I mean, we do a lot — a lot of what we do in unleashing the Gospel we put under the patronage of St. Anne, her protection because in some ways this is particularly her home territory. I also think a very important element in this chain of connection is Father Gabriel Richard, who is the greatest of the pastors of St. Anne parish. You know, Father Richard was a sufficient priest, a refugee from the French Revolution came to the United States on the mission, was sent out here to the frontier to serve as the pastor at St. Anne, which meant caring for many of the churches up and down the water from Monroe all the way up to at least Marine city.
Archbishop Vigneron:
I'm not sure he got probably he must've gone as far as Fort Gratiot, Port Huron. And he was a link in this unbroken tradition that goes back to 1701. I mean, this is in the 18 hundreds. And I mean, many people don't know Father Richard and a Protestant minister named Dr. Monteith were the co-founders of the University of Michigan. Father Richard was our territorial delegate to the Congress in the United States. While he was there, he was instrumental in getting the federal government to build the road between Chicago and Detroit, Michigan Avenue. Same really pretty much the same route as I-94. And his wisdom about that was — opened up the central part of the peninsula to farming. People didn't just need to be on the shores of the lake. They should be opening up the inner part of the territory. He published, he brought the first printing press into the territory, published the first newspaper, printed the first book. I think he, in some ways exemplifies this tradition of St. Anne and the meaning of St. Anne as our patroness. Well, that's a long, that's a long answer, but I'm, I'm a big fan of Father Richard, he's a hero to me.
Mary:
And it's so, it's so awesome. I think like you pointed out sometimes in our culture, we try to erase the faith heritage or the faith piece that really helped to build our nation's history. And it's a beautiful thing to remember, and to kind of honor that piece of who we are as Catholics, you know, working in the world to bring about you know, modernization and changing good things for all people. So I love that, that reminder. That's great.
Mike:
You know, we tend to think so kind of scientifically and stuff like that, but, you know, there's a narrative, there's a story that we're able to be a part of that's bigger and grander, and, you know, like, you're, you keep, Archbishop, you talk about these like chains in the link — or links in the chain, I guess you could say — going back to 1701 and, you know, today, you and I are a part of that same chain today. What link will you provide and what will we do? Today's our Archdiocese of Detroit, you know what I mean? So it's just a cool reminder of all of that history. I know also one of the things that we've done to really kind of retain that history and to celebrate the patronage of St. Anne was, I know there was a decision to request that Ste. Anne Church in downtown be named a Basilica, Archbishop, would you mind telling us a little bit about how that process functions and what that was like, and, and what does it mean for that church to become a Basilica within the archdiocese?
Archbishop Vigneron:
Well, let's start at the end. What does it mean to be designated a basilica is to receive an honor from the Holy Father that basically makes you an honorary church of the city of Rome. So the ancient basilicas, the greatest of the basilicas of course, St. Peter's. St. Paul, St. Mary Major, the Most Holy Savior, St. John, these are the great basilicas, but there are other lesser basilicas. And so it's really like being made an outpost of the city of Rome here in our midst. It's an honor to be designated such by the Pope. The requirement is that you have to be a special place for devotion, for extraordinary opportunities for pilgrimage, for catechesis, for celebration of the sacraments. And it has to be of a certain dignity, a certain artistic worthiness.
Archbishop Vigneron:
And so Monsignor Kosanke, as the pastor of the parish church, had in mind that Ste. Anne's was worthy of this designation. And so he put together basically a case statement, a dossier he had. He and his team prepared it, I had to review it with my recommendation, and I sent it on to the Holy See, to the Vatican, and they reviewed it there. They sent it, they said, you know, these are a couple of things that have to be improved if we're going to be able to approve this designation. We were able to meet those requirements and they then, in the name of the Holy Father, designated Sainte Anne Church as a Basilica church.
Mary:
And then the shrine of St. Anne, where is that? And what is its purpose?
Archbishop Vigneron:
It's a part of the church, it's actually over to the left side. It at one time would have simply been one of the side altars. It's very beautiful, but they've embellished it and dedicated it specifically to St. Anne. And so it's really the focal point for devotion to Saint Anne in the church. And when people come to St. Anne Basilica on Saint Anne Day, they, under the usual conditions, they can gain a plenary indulgence to when they pray at the shrine.
Mary:
Is there any other place that you can think of in the United States where there is such a devotion to St. Anne, or if, if you had a strong devotion and you lived in Florida, would this be a place you'd want to go to on pilgrimage? Because it is rare?
Archbishop Vigneron:
You know, I don't really know. That'd be something for Monsignor Kosanke. When I think about places for devotion in, I would think in north America, obviously St. Anne de Beaupre comes first to mind.
Mary:
Yeah. That's on my list of places to get with my family one day is to St. Anne de Beaupre. That would be wonderful. I heard it's absolutely beautiful and such a place of profound worship. So hopefully one day.
Mike:
I know one thing that our listeners may not be aware of also is that, Archbishop, I know that you had kind of requested the construction and then the installation of tympanums, which are really you know, it's a fancy word for basically a triangular or semi-circular decorative piece of art that goes over a doorway or a window. And you commissioned a couple to be made, one for the Chancery building where your offices are downtown, as well as the Cathedral of the Most Blessed Sacrament. Would you be able to speak a little bit to how that came about, you know, what your choice was in the commissioning of that, and yeah? How were they were designed? And tell us a little bit about them.
Archbishop Vigneron:
Sure. Happy to do that, Mike. We moved the offices, the curia offices from the building next to St. Aloysius. It just became impractical that building. Plus the building on Michigan Avenue — we needed to downsize our space, change our footprint, get something that was more modern. And this old bank building became available. Developers related to Capitol Park, we — one side of the building faces Capitol Park. The main entry is on State Street, so at State and Griswold. And it's a very elegant building. And it has upon — the main entry is really two stories tall, and it has a a semi-circular window over the main, impressive doorway. And I had the idea that we could put a work of art in there that would be a public manifestation of who we are and what we are in the city.
Archbishop Vigneron:
As a matter of fact, my first idea was to put something on the side of the building and the zoning people said, no, you can't do that. That's a historic building, it's not allowed. So we developed this possibility of something that fits in the niche, the semi-circular neat niche. And so what should it be? I mean, it's meant to be a statement about the Catholic Church in southeast Michigan. So we had already been talking about the New Evangelization. So what do we do? We present the Incarnate Word of God. That means something very much about the Blessed Virgin Mary, but we're Detroit. So it also means Saint Anne. So the depiction then is, in the central part of the sculpture is the incarnate Christ child standing on the sacred scripture. And he's being held out to the city on one side by his grandmother, St. Anne, and on the other side, by the Blessed Virgin Mary.
Archbishop Vigneron:
And so it's meant to be a visual presentation of the Catholic Church to the city of Detroit and to metro Detroit. And it has other elements that speak the meaning of it. In the background, there's a kind of a halo made by apple trees, which reflect two things. One it should bring to mind the fall that is undone by the coming of the Word of Christ— of God. But it also should help us think about you know, the state flower is the apple blossom. So it kind of roots us in Michigan. There's a — the way our Blessed Virgin, our Blessed Mother is depicted is, she has her foot on the snake showing that the coming of the Incarnate Word is the end of the reign of the demon. On the smock of the Christ child is a trillium which helps us think about the state again, you know the trillium is the state wildflower, and there are angels on either side and their features are meant to depict persons of color — in some ways, indefinite, but to remind us that the Gospel is for all people and one of the angels holds wheat and the other holds grapes as a point that it's through the Holy Eucharist that really, we come into the fullest presence of the Incarnate Word here in our community.
Archbishop Vigneron:
The sculptures that we chose to do it had a — I don't know where they are now. I presume it's still out by Ann Arbor — local sculptors. They had the best proposal and their proposal was to, I think they did it in clay, modeled it in clay. Then they made a mold and poured a kind of resin plastic into it. And so it's resilient to the weather. Keeps the detail. And they said you know, we can cast two sculptures at the same time. And so I said, well, that's a great deal! Two for one, you know. Well, I mean, it was a little more, but it wasn't like double price, 50% off the second, I guess. And so then you began to think about where that might go. And there's a space in the cathedral that seemed to make this fit very well. And it creates a kind of a connection between our central headquarters and our spiritual headquarters.
Mary:
I will tell you, I — we're a family that goes to Detroit quite a bit, you know, on the weekends we find things to do downtown, my husband and the kids, and I. And I'm so thankful for it because it's a little teachable moment for my kids when we're downtown, they look for it, you know, and they point to it. And then we've talked about it so many different times, and I'm always, I always say, Archbishop Vigneron, I'm like, "That's Archbishop Vigneron works," for the kids. But did you imagine that people on the street would be able to look up and, and feel this moment of evangelization, or of teaching in some ways, even if they don't fully grasp every part of the sculpture itself to like see a witness in the downtown area?
Archbishop Vigneron:
All right, we're here. You know, you announce your presence and it's a beautiful sculpture. And so even in its beauty, if people don't decipher all of the symbols I've talked about, it speaks, I think.
Mary:
I think it really does. It's a neat thing to be able to point out to people when we're downtown versus just, you know, a building with a little plaque that says Archdiocese of Detroit, you know, it's a teachable moment. It's a witness. I love it. Love it.
Mike:
Well, Archbishop, I know that also, obviously we tied this episode to coincide with the Church's first annual World Day of Grandparents and the Elderly, which obviously is coincides basically with St. And's feast day, and Joachim. So this is a new thing, obviously, the designating of a World Day for Grandparents and the Elderly, what message do you think that the Pope was intending or seeking to convey about the importance of the elderly and grandparents specifically to us, the faithful, the wider society? What do you think was going on there for the pope in that?
Archbishop Vigneron:
The Holy Father said he's concerned that the even ordinary dynamic that's going on of isolation, particularly in generations has been exacerbated by the pandemic, not least because the elderly have borne the pain of it in a disproportionate way. And he wants us to think about intentionally re-establishing these connections, and especially appreciating the worth of the elderly and the worth of the elderly in our families, the grandparents. He, you know, he talks a lot about his own experience of his grandparents. I think he's very sensitive to that. My way of thinking about it is, and I said this at St. Anne, I think a, it's a kind of a call to reciprocity that I mentioned earlier, the chain we are connected in. This familial chain. The way we do things comes from our parents and they got it from their parents.
Archbishop Vigneron:
A lot of times it's even more direct grandfathers and grandmothers talk to their grandkids and say, well, no, this is the way we do it. This is how we make gnocchi. They may do it differently over somewhere else. This is how we do apple pie. This is how we fix the lawnmower. I mean, just think there's — it's such a natural reality. And I think that's what the whole, that's one way to think about what the Pope is talking about. That without these connections, we become this kind of free-floating, unrooted and lost just pieces of debris floating around. And and if you know, Mary, you're talking about your kids, if they're going to be good grandparents, granddads, someday they have to they have to be connected. Yeah.
Mary:
I thought you did. I was able to listen to your homily. Someone sent it to me and they said it was so good. And I listened to it this morning on the way into the podcast, knowing that we were going to be talking about St. Anne, and I thought you did such a good job taking kind of some of these realities that are a bit mysterious and hard to understand. It can sometimes seem like the saints and the angels, and even the Blessed Mother, they're far away. And when you take a moment to really reflect on what does a grandparent do, and that's what St. Anne and St Joachim did for the Blessed Mother, you referenced it earlier. It's neat to kind of think of the grandparents that my kids have and what they've done for my children being connected to the work that St. Anne and St. Joachim did for Mary. You translated that chain, again, it's just a really neat way to think about our faith.
Archbishop Vigneron:
And God's the — I think a very important New Testament term for that is the New Creation. What God the Son has done in the power of the Holy Spirit is transformed creation. The New Creation is not as if God pressed the delete button and had to start all over again. As wounded as the old, the first creation was, he showed his power by taking what had been wounded of his work and trans— healing it, transforming it and making it an instrument of grace, which is ultimately epitomized in the very person of Jesus Christ.
Mary:
Well, and this role of grandparents too, I know you said Pope Francis speaks often about his experience with his grandparents. And I think about my own children, like I said, and the role that their grandparents have in their life, what do you think if you, you know, if you were able to kind of sum it up, what can St Anne and St. Joachim teach us about the importance of grandparents?
Archbishop Vigneron:
That in consciously going about relating to their grandkids, they can help them. They can be leaders in faith formation. I mean, that sounds clunky, but they share their faith. They should be about sharing a way of life. Not necessarily always giving them lessons from the catechism, but to say something like, you know, okay, you're upset today. Somebody was mean to you. What we do is we forgive people who hurt us and we pray for them. I mean, that's a tremendous formational experience. And I think there's a way that coming from our grandparents, in some ways, it can make an even deeper impression. I think the role of parents and grandparents is complementary. It's not exactly good cop, bad cop, but there's a little bit of that. I think.
Mary:
You had said in the homily grandchildren want to make their grandparents happy or proud or something. And it really stood out to me because I guess I had never isolated that relationship, but my kids do. They relate differently to their grandparents, not better or worse, but they do want to make them proud. And that's a good way to translate to, you know, St Anne as a grandmother, you know how are we reacting as grandchildren? You know, it's a neat kind of bridge to understand our faith at a deeper level, I think.
Mike:
Archbishop, I know you've also, you've spoken on this podcast about this before, but then also in Unleash the Gospel where you really dove into speaking about intercessory prayer and how it cultivates his soil for sowing the Word. I guess in speaking about this specifically on St. Anne and our patron for the Archdiocese of Detroit, do you have like an invitation or something you really ask of our listeners when it comes to that cultivating the soil and stirring up a spiritual hunger through intercessory prayer specifically when it comes to St. Anne, do you have anything and invitation for our listeners on that?
Archbishop Vigneron:
I think I'd begin with just reminding Saint Anne that this piece of the kingdom is particularly hers. You know, she's got a special responsibility here. This is very much part of her household, and please pray for the health of this family that's her family, and that the family grow and flourish, which is what I think every homemaker wants, isn't it? Think it can be that plain. And I think it's not trivial, but it's a simple way to understand a deeply profound reality about how we are connected by the power of the Holy Spirit. This is her household, and she certainly wants it to flourish. And so don't give up on us, keep praying.
Mary:
Amen. We are at the point in the podcast where we get to ask you, Archbishop Vigneron, some questions from the faithful. If you're listening and you have any questions that you would like to ask, please feel free to email eyesonjesuspodcast@aod.org, make sure to include your name, your parish, nd of course your question. So our first question comes from Kevin, at St. Mary's in Monroe. Kevin says, will you watch the Olympics? If so, what events interests you the most? What is your favorite all time Olympic story or athlete?
Archbishop Vigneron:
You know, I don't want to be a downer, but I don't watch the Olympics. I'm part of that. I'm part of that demographic that they're missing. But what I am interested in the summer Olympics are the the sort of the most ancient and traditional the field sports: javelin, hammer throw, the discus, pole vaulting. I find those the most interesting those field sports.
Mary:
It's neat to think of the history.
Archbishop Vigneron:
Yeah. They seem to be the — I mean, I could mention some newer ones that seem a little more on the periphery, but I don't want to get a lot of mail about that.
Mary:
I think that's a fair answer. We're a big Olympic family and it always shocks me when people are like, yeah, I'm not really watching because I mean, we've got it all set, the times, the alarms going off so we can watch the sports we're into. So it's exciting, but I do agree. I'm excited for track and field to start because that's — it's a particular type of enthusiasm when we're watching that type of sport.
Speaker 3:
My favorite Olympic story has to be the victory of those college kids in hockey at Lake Placid. To me that represents the very best of the meaning of sport, where it's about courage and perseverance and, you know, there is something about an experience like that that shows a kind of mysterious way to connect in, to accomplish something. And there are a lot of ways people talk about it, you know, dig down deep find a place in your heart. It really is a manifestation of something quite marvelous about human being that that this can occur.
Mike:
Beautiful. Well, Archbishop, I have a question here from John at St. Anne of Detroit. I wonder how he got chosen specifically with this month. Okay. So this is a really interesting question. I love what he asks. He says Archbishop, if you never entered the priesthood what else would you have liked to study? What do you think you would have pursued as a career? That's a big one.
Archbishop Vigneron:
I think I probably would have become a lawyer. And I think I would have become a law professor, probably maybe something, the more theoretical part of it, Constitutional law. I think that would have fit me pretty well. I don't have the temperament to go into business. I mean, I respect people who make that contribution, but that just wouldn't have been where I would have wound up. And yeah, I think something like a university teacher, law, and maybe the confluence of those two things.
Mike:
Very cool.
Mary:
In the opportunity we've had to do this podcast, I could see that. I think you look at things in a really interesting way, and you can tell you have the mind of a professor. I think if it's okay to say that to you, it just seems like, you know, there's a lot of stuff up there that we get to hear and I could see you being really good at that as well. Danny at the Shrine of the Little Flower in Royal Oak asks you this question, which I thought was super interesting too. He said, when you were sent to serve as Bishop of Oakland, was it hard to lead a flock when you didn't really know the charism of the laity or even the names of your brother priests? What was it like to return to Detroit? To become the Archbishop here?
Archbishop Vigneron:
Okay. Going out to Oakland. Yeah. It was very difficult to go to a place I didn't know people, I was unacquainted with. And I mean, you know, it wasn't as if I was missioned to something as far away as Southeast Asia or Sub-Saharan Africa, but there is a cultural difference between the West Coast and us in the Midwest. So I had to sort of, I wouldn't say I learned a new language, but maybe have to learn a new dialect of culture there. So it presented all of those challenges, but it also — I was received by very, very many people as appreciated for coming there and becoming their pastor. And that meant a great deal. And so I don't want to overdramatize it, but it was a challenge. Yeah. And about coming back, go ahead. Sorry, Mary.
Mary:
No, that's what I was just going to ask. So after having that time, when you come back, was it — what was that like?
Archbishop Vigneron:
Well, it means a loss. So, you know, I had built up all these connections. I certainly never expected to come back to the Midwest. Not at all Detroit. That was — those are very rare appointments. And so it meant a loss to put aside what I had invested myself in, the people who — with whom I had made connections, but then there was the joy of coming home. Probably there was nobody who had more joy in my coming home than my mother. But when I said to her that I was, the Pope was bringing me back, said, "Well, I knew the Blessed Mother would make that happen."
Mary:
Oh my gosh, that is such a good story. 'Cause there is you don't — you sometimes don't think about that loss when priests and bishops are called to far away places, that would be hard for a mom. So I love that.
Mike:
Very cool Archbishop before asking for your final prayer and blessing. Well, of course we wanted to ask you, is there anything specific that we can pray for you? Do you have any specific intentions or anything on your mind that we could keep in our mind in prayer?
Archbishop Vigneron:
I'd like the listeners, please, to pray for their priests. This is a challenging time as we move to Families of Parishes. Pray for the priests, the deacons and the leadership in the parishes as they make the adjustments, which involve a death to self. I acknowledge that, but it's for the sake of advancing the Gospel, unleashing it. But it's not easy. I was started to read the the account of the 16 Carmelite sisters who were guillotined in the French Revolution. And I thought, yup, that's the Christian life.
Mary:
It's funny. You can almost take strength from that, though, when you know, when you're in it and it's tough, that yeah. Part of our call is the tough.
Archbishop Vigneron:
If you're not willing to take up your cross and follow him, we're not worthy to be his disciple. I just think, what kind of recruitment shtick was that, you know?
Mary:
I was just telling somebody that the cross part of our faith is constantly a challenge for me, you know, the suffering, she said, "Well, then you need to go sit at a church and you need to look at the crucifix more." And I was like, great point. It is a part of the road to discipleship.
Archbishop Vigneron:
Yeah, my confessor says that when it gets to be burdensome, remember that it it's the opportunity to do something for him who's done so much for you. Yes, that's so good.
Mary:
Well, we will be praying for our priests and for you as we move through this process.
Mike:
Archbishop has always has been a pleasure speaking with you. Would you mind closing us with a prayer and blessing?
Archbishop Vigneron:
Happy to do it. I'm going to use again, I think I've used it in the past, Pope Francis's Prayer to Saint Joseph from his letter on this Year of Joseph. So Joseph, Guardian of the Redeemer, Spouse of the Blessed Virgin Mary, to you, God and trusted his only Son. In you, Mary placed her trust. With you, Christ became man. Blessed St. Joseph, to us to show yourself a father and guide us in the path of life. Obtain for us, grace, mercy, and courage, and defend us from every evil. Amen. Saint Anne, pray for us.