Archbishop: I'm Archbishop Allen Vigneron of the Archdiocese of Detroit. And this is the Eyes on Jesus podcast. Mike: Hello, and welcome to the Eyes on Jesus podcast with Archbishop Allen Vigneron. I'm your host, Mike Chamberland, Mary: And I'm your host Mary Wilkerson. Mike: We are excited to release new episodes once a month, so please make sure to listen and subscribe wherever it is. You listen to podcasts, Archbishop welcome and thank you so much for joining us. How are you doing? How's your summer been? Archbishop: I'm doing fine, Mike. Great to be with you, Mary. You know, it seems kind of short. Mike: I know it goes fast. Archbishop: It does indeed. And I think the older I get the faster it goes, I suppose, talking like an old guy there. Mike: [laughs] Now, Archbishop, I know — for many of us, I know the summer is a little bit more of a slower pace from the rest of the, kind of the school year, academic year. Is that true for you as well as an Archbishop or not so much? Archbishop: It does slow down, but I find it doesn't slow down quite as much as it did, maybe 30 years ago. Mary: It's funny. I'm always like, we're going to have so much free time and then you open your eyes and it's September, you know? So it's a little intense. One of the things that we did obviously in the Archdiocese of Detroit is kids are heading back to school. And I was wondering, you know, Archbishop Cigneron, if you have any messages for the students and the educators, the parents, as they begin, what is the third year academic year within a pandemic? So there's a little bit of weariness, I think, but people are charging right ahead. So any messages for us as we tackle the new school year? Archbishop: I think these points: welcome back. It's great to have us back in the classroom and back about mission. That that's a great blessing. To give God praise and thanks that he's brought us to this moment, I think especially under the protection of the Blessed Virgin Mary. And three we need particularly to look out for one another. We're a community, a family of faith. We care for one another and we've been through a great deal and it tries everybody's patience. So we have to make that extra effort to be patient with one another and helpful to one another, because there's a variety of ways that people cope with the possibility of the infection. And we have to be supportive of one another. Mary: Yeah. I think that's so key. We've been praying at home. Someone gave me the idea to really focus on — I'm praying for, you know, principals and administrations as they move through this time, because it has been, I mean, you can grow a little weary, but if we all pull together and like you said, in mutual support recognizing that we are all in this place together, there's a lot we can do through the example of Christ, I think with moving through it, right? Archbishop: And even in an atmosphere, a context where faith is not explicit, people talk about pulling together. Teamwork. That's very important. We need to remember that the leader of our team is Jesus. And that the resource we have is his Holy Spirit, which is an incomparable richness for us. Mike: Amen. Speaking of that prayer and support for one another. I know that recently, Archbishop, I saw that you posted on social media obviously — requesting your flock offer prayers for our brothers and sisters in both obviously Afghanistan, for everything that's going on there, and in Haiti you know, I didn't know if there's anything you wanted to add to that. As far as other recommendations beyond prayer that could be done or should it be done by us here in Detroit? Archbishop: Two things come to mind that I might add. One is, I saw that the Holy Father has particularly recommended prayer and fasting for Afghanistan. And I think that that's something to take to heart to do some works of self-denial and offer them up for the wellbeing of the people of Afghanistan. And the other is to make an appeal to people. We've put a number of possibilities for the ways people can make contributions to support the folks in Haiti and to look at that and see what people might be able to do to contribute. Mary: I think those things are important. The news seems quite heavy lately. I mean, it's almost getting tiring to say that, but I don't know, this last month it's been a little intense looking kind of at the global picture. And so uniting both in prayer and action, I think is a way that we connect to the fact that we are all brothers and sisters in Christ. You know, Archbishop: I read something once and I'm sorry, I don't remember who the, the spiritual author was, but it might've been St. Therese but that doesn't sound right — to look at the the agitations, the conflicts in the world as birth pangs. And if we look at it with the eye of the Holy Spirit in the new Testament, these are all signs of a new world trying to come to birth and to have confidence that the Lord in his sovereignty over history is day by day, moving us closer to the consummation of the Kingdom. I don't think that's being Pollyannish. We recognize the hurt, the deep wounds that occur in the history of the world, but God's working out his purpose and is advancing us toward the coming, the final coming of Christ. Mary: I love that. I think that's one of the ways that — you know, we did an episode where we talked about hope and that's how we remain as people of hope, right. Recognizing this is God's time and God's work. So, yeah. Well, it's, it's, I think completely appropriate that today, what we're going to be discussing is evangelical charity, something that's very important to our Catholic faith and it's being renewed in the Archdiocese of Detroit. So to start this conversation, I was wondering if you could kind of tell us, or sum up for us, what is evangelical charity? What do those words mean? Archbishop: Well, we chose specifically the word charity because it's the more technical name for this theological virtue. The virtue of love. I mean, you could translate to the Greek word with either in English, but I think to use the word charity reminds us that we're talking about the theological virtue, which is the love of Christ, God's own love, the the kind of love — not just the kind, but the very same love that burns in the heart of Jesus. The love that the Father and the Son share with one another and by the power of the Holy Spirit, by sanctifying grace, we have that love. And so that's what we live out as disciples of Christ, as adopted daughters and sons of Godthe Father. Charity. And evangelical is to help us understand that using that name — to understand that this is a gift of the New Testament. It's part of the Good News that God gave us, that Christ announces, that we can live this way. We can have this gift and that by sharing the gift of the works of love, of charity we announced the Kingdom. I think those are the important reasons, part of the important reason for using this nomenclature. Mike: Yeah. And if I recall correctly, Archbishop, I know that as far as the Archdiocese of Detroit was concerned that the typical, you know — that that office was, used to be known as Christian Service. And obviously I know you guys have opted to kind of change that name, kind of rebranded if you will. And for everything you just said, I love the idea that you rebranded, and I think it captures more closely what it is you are seeking to do, you know? Can you explain a little bit about that? Like, where did that emergence come from this idea that, to change that name and you know, why did you guys choose to do that? Archbishop: Well I think you're onto the point there, Mike, when you call it a rebranding and not, not simply a change of names, but a renewal of focus. It's all part of what the Synod — the participants at the Synod heard the Holy Spirit say is that everything we do ought to be more sharply focused on the work of evangelization and the mission to be on mission. This title for what we're about helps us understand that we're not like some non-governmental agency, we're not the Red Cross. We we have our own — some things we do with other agencies and some things look very much on the surface, like what they do, but we do it with a different soul. That's the way I would put it. With the Holy Spirit and the soul of Jesus Christ, so that when we do these works of mercy they come from Christ in us and they're directed to Christ in those we serve. And I think we — part of it using the title evangelical charity, also we've put a more — a greater focus on the use of the word "works of mercy". If you remember, a few years ago, our Holy Father, Pope Francis said that — he calledfor a special year of mercy. And I think that also helps us stay in touch with the authentic source of what we are about in our service to our neighbor. Mike: Amen. I actually really like the name. I mean, I think it really hearkens to, again, like you said, our focus, our goal, 'cause I think we can fall into the trap of kind of just becoming like a — you know, just serving people for the —there's lots of these, like you said, the Red Cross and whatever the serve people and that's their end goal, but our end goal is a little different in the sense of, we serve people so as to hopefully in the end, put them in relationship with Christ, which is that evangelical element. So I love it. I think it's great. Archbishop: And you know, this is the way Our Lord announced the Kingdom, was by healing the wounds of those he encountered. And so we continue to advance his kingdom. We are his hands, his eyes, his feet in the world today. This is the role of the Church, his Mystical Body, to continue his healing mercies. Mary: I like that. I like tha you said that, you know, it's, it's a rebranding of sorts, but, and we could stay there just saying, you know, it's renaming an office, but to look at it as a renewal, like, a renewed commitment to what we do as a Church within the archdiocese is, it's an exciting way to look at it and to connect it to the work of the Synod and what, how the Holy Spirit is moving within our archdiocese. Even kind of looking over the notes of totday, I didn't quite view it that way. And that's — I think that's an important thing to point out, just to continue to see how the Spirit is moving within these offices and within Central Services. So I wanted to ask you what kind of work specifically does the Office for Evangelical Charity do? So what are the things that we do within the Archdiocese of Detroit through this office? Archbishop: Well, the office is very much on analogy with the Schools office. It's about enabling the grass roots organizations, especially in the parishes to be about the mission of announcing the kingdom of God through works of mercy. So it isn't so much that we are particularly engaged in works through the office, but it's about helping the parishes be engaged. And not just the parishes, but it's also one way for me to be helpful to, for example, the St. Vincent DePaul Society or other Catholic groups that are dedicated to the service of the sick and the poor. When it comes to directly performing works the way the archdiocese, we as a local Church are engaged in that, is more through Catholic Charities of Southeast Michigan. Mike: Yeah. So I mean the Catholic charities of Southeast Michigan, and let's talk about that a little bit more in the sense — I know that here they're doing kind of — they've done a special feature on the Catholic services — Catholic Charities of Southeast Michigan here in August. And so I know that this is kind of meant to be coinciding, this episode today is meant to coincide with that. Can you tell us a little bit more about Catholic Charities of Southeast Michigan and the work that they do? More specifically here in Detroit that you're aware of? Archbishop: Well, I would put it into three categories. One is the works that the organization directly engages in. This is counseling for people who have emotional health issues, programs for people who are recovering from addiction. We have at the center on Woodward Avenue, just south of the Cathedral, a soup kitchen, a pantry, clothing. We have a program for seniors. It's better to look at the website, Mike, honestly. The list goes on and on. Archbishop: The second thing that they — Catholic Charities — does is it serves as a platform for other groups to be engaged in their works of charity. So we have a very dedicated group of people in the archdiocese who work hard at prison ministry, and Catholic Charities, their headquarters provides a platform for that ministry. It provides a place for the the Knights and Dames of Malta to have their dental medical clinic. So that would be the second kind of work. And I've given some examples. And then the third is to, like the Office for Evangelical Charity, to be a catalyst for other people out in the parishes, other groups in the archdiocese to be engaged in the works of mercy Mary: I love that you said to, you know, it's easy — there's so many things that is underneath this umbrella. And I think that it's kind of a blessing that the archdiocese decided to kind of do this special in August on the Catholic Charities of Southeast Michigan so we can go and see the different things that they do through DetroitCatholic.com. People can go there and look at all the different things, because I'll tell you my husband and I were quite surprised, weirdly enough, a couple of months ago, we were looking at the organization to look and just to get some basic information about fostering and adopting. And I was surprised how many different things the archdiocese and Catholic Charities for Southeast Michigan are involved in. Archbishop: Yeah, I should have mentioned that. That's a very important part of our service is to facilitate adoptions. Mary: It's kind of beautiful, like, I'm not sure — maybe this is just a generalization, but that the average, you know, average parishioner would know all of the different things that the Church is doing within southeast Michigan to bring about. Archbishop: One time, we tried to do a catalog of what the Church does in Southeast Michigan, not what the archdiocese from its headquarters does, not just what the parishes do, but when you begin to look at things like the Capuchin Soup Kitchen, which of course is much bigger than a soup kitchen these days, right? Or you look at, I think the Sisters of Mercy run a particular care for abused women. When you look at all of the things that are done under the name of Christ through the sponsorship of Church realities, it's a tremendous wealth. Mary: And it's a really beautiful thing. Archbishop: It is, and there's no need to sort of make it all one integrated organization. We need to cooperate, but part of the beauty is that people see a need and they begin to respond to it. That's like the crisis pregnancy centers here in our archdiocese. Many faithful people have done this great work of mercy, or we have number of devoted lay faithful who have started homes for special needs adults, for example. The Holy Spirit inspires very, very many ways of the faithful responding to the Gospel call to be agents of the mercy of Jesus. Mary: Yeah. And I think maybe if people are listening and they're having a hard time kind of figuring out where they can connect, going to that Detroitcatholic.com, looking at the special that they did on Catholic Charities of Southeast Michigan, like trying to figure out where could I plug in, or where is somewhere that God might be calling me to participate in the corporal works of mercy? 'Cause I think we all have — we have a desire if we're disciples of Christ, but sometimes we don't know where to go with that, you know? And so it's so beautiful. I think that Central Services or the archdiocese has put everything together so that we can go and look where we might be able to plug in in the different things that we're doing. Archbishop: One more group I'd like to call out is the St. Vincent de Paul Society. The the the groups in our parishes, the conferences in our parishes. I was over at their headquarters on Gratiot, well, maybe three weeks ago. And it continues to be a very vital way for the Church to be engaged in the works of mercy with the clothing the naked, you know, providing homing homes for the homeless, those sorts of things. And on behalf of the parish priests, I know I speak with great gratitude for what the conferences do in the service in the parishes. Mary: You know, it's funny, 'cause we've kind of talked about it so far in this episode, but zeroing in on the corporal works of mercy, which we keep mentioning, they're such an important part of our faith and I love — I'm such a black and white type of thinker. That's where my safe zone is. And so I love looking at the spiritual or the corporate works of mercy almost as an examination of conscience. How am I doing these things in my life? So could you just briefly kind of give us a little teaching on the corporal works of mercy, what they are, why they're important the, the place that they have within our faith? Archbishop: Well, Mary there are seven and I'll read them: to feed the hungry, give water to the thirsty, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless, visit the sick, visit the imprisoned, and bury the dead. And the first six all come from the Gospel itself. Our Lord did the parable of the Last Judgment saying what he expects the disciples, what he expects his hearers to do. And burying the dead really comes from our heritage in the Old Testament, especially from the Book of Tobit, where Tobit himself was praised — is praised for his service to the dead in burying them. These are longstanding categories that have been used in the catechesis of the Church. They're Gospel-based and they give us a good kind of set of touchstones really for you, as you said, Mary, to examine our consciences: so what am I doing to to advance one or more of these works of mercy? Because at a judgment day, I'm going to be asked about it, right? As long as you did it to one of the least of my brethren, you did it to me. And if you didn't do it, you failed to do it for me. Mike: Well, I know even speaking about evangelical charity and the corporal works of mercy specifically, I know we have you know, each year in the Archdiocese of Detroit, we have an event called Mercy in Action Day of Service, which is actually this year, 2021, is scheduled for October 16th. We've been doing this for a number of years in the archdiocese as I understand it. And what is the event about and how can people get involved? Archbishop: Well, it's about letting people know exactly — well, first of all, I think it's about calling people to respond to this responsibility we have with the Lord to be his instruments and advancing his kingdom. His kingdom of mercy, his kingdom of healing, his kingdom of dressing the wounds that come from sin and being agents for his grace. How can people be involved? I think the best thing is to go through the the websites of the Archdiocese of Detroit, evangelicalcharity.org or aod.org/evangelicalcharity. I think those would be the ways for people to have a sense about what, how to be engaged. I don't know. Do either of you have some good advice on that point? I defer to you very practical catechists. Mary: I was just going to say, it's been kind of inspiring to me over the past few years to see how parishes have really embraced this day. And even schools. My kids at school, their different grade levels would all have for Mercy Day of Action a particular thing that they did. My kids were at St. Michael, the Archangel school in Livonia, and they had every class one day in school really just dedicated to the corporal works of mercy for Mercy in Action Day. And it was really beautiful to know that, you know, my kids or my family, we were working on something that the neighboring parish was, that the parish and the other vicariates was, everybody was working together on this day. And I kind of love that it's focused, too, on one day to kind of get us excited about the corporal works of mercy everyday. So I would say parishes have a lot going on. Mike, would you say the same from your experience? Archbishop: That's exactly what I was going to say. I was going to say check in with your own parish because a lot of times I know what's great about the days is brought a lot of collaboration between parishes or clusters clusters within vicarious and whatnot, where they kind of collaborate to do a bigger drive or a bigger event all driven around that day. So just, you know, regardless, I mean, check those websites that the Archbishop mentioned, I think for sure, but also even if you just checked in with your parish, I'm sure there'd be something you could find to do. Mary: Right? My husband has this expression that he uses all the time and he reminds me that in real life, most people are awesome because sometimes when we're on social media, we're checking the news media, it can seem almost exhausting. Like you get weary that people are kind of cold or distant or not connected to one another. And the experience of day to day is that people do want to love and serve each other. And so many people within the Catholic Church have the heart of Christ and want to be able to serve in the way that Jesus encouraged us to. And I think on Mercy Day of Action, it's so obvious to see that in real life, people are awesome people working together to make change, which is what we need in this world so desperately. Archbishop: Because everybody needs Jesus. Mary: Mhm. And making sure to connect it to — that's, yeah. Connecting it to Christ. Archbishop: Right. You know, back to the earlier point about the, the labeling, the branding — part of it is to remind ourselves that our work of service, our works of service need to have their own very specific kind of soul, if I might put it that wa., Their own animating principle, which is, as I said earlier, the soul of Jesus himself in which the Holy Spirit dwells, so that our works of mercy come from Jesus through us, and they go through us to Jesus. I think that's very much a lesson we can learn from Mother Teresa, that — always her service to the poor was for each individual. Each of them loved for her or himself. Christ in the sisters, loving Christ in those they serve. I think that's very, very important. Mary: When you — just in your time as kind of the shepherd of our diocese as the Archbishop, how would you suggest living out the corporal works of mercy well? Just for the average person. So I'm sure that you come in contact with people, you see people that are living the Spirit so well. You referenced Mother Teresa, I think sometimes we think that that's far away, you know, I can't live that level of holiness, but what are some ways we can practically live out the corporal works of mercy in our day-to-day lives? Archbishop: Three things I would say: one to engage in discernment. As you said, Mary, we we're not going to Calcutta, but what's God put in my path where I can be the hands of Christ? Where is it? Is it close? Usually it's pretty close. There's something not too far away that I might've overlooked. So I think discernment. Two, I think, is prayer. Prayer is very, very important to keep this, what I've called the soul of Christ alive in our works of mercy, personal prayer. Do I bring prayer into my work of mercy? And do I pray on account of my evangelical charity? Do I pray for the people I'm serving? I think that that's very, very important and shared prayer very important as well. Do I at least offer the opportunity of the person I'm in service to, to pray with me when we're together? From what I can tell here, reports, most people find that those they serve are very happy to have somebody pray with them. Archbishop: And you just give people the opportunity if they decline to decline graciously, I mean, good manners is always important. But most people don't decline, I think, that that kind of prayer. And most people engage in works of mercy, acts of evangelical charity with others. At least — could be a pair of people, a team, whatever — but for the group to pray together, I think for the team to pray and shared prayer, spontaneous prayer, I think is very, very helpful. And the third thing I would say is to watch for opportunities during these works of love to make an explicit testimony. So there will be some opportunity. Obviously one doesn't engage in works of mercy to be tyrannous over other people. But at least — what is the way that the person I'm serving can know that this is coming from Christ through me? Some kind of testimony like that, I think is very important. Mary: That's such good practical advice. And I wrote it down so that within my own family, we can do that. And I love the piece that you said about discernment. I think as a mom with small children, it was super hard for me to do anything outside of the house, you know, but then somebody connected that the things that I'm doing at home with really small ones, right. I can connect those to the corporal works of mercy. There's no more readily available way to, like, clothe the naked and feed the hungry children right in front of me. Right? Diapers all day long. I had three in diapers at one point, but now it is funny as my kids are getting older, I am feeling deeper in my soul that I need to be doing a little bit more outside of my house because my kids are at school and there's more opportunity to do things. So really taking that to prayer and seeing where God wants us, because this is the work of the Spirit. This is the work of Jesus. So connecting it to that is, I think it's significant, you know. Talking to your pastor, if you're looking for a place to get involved, going to the websites at the archdiocese are ways that you can be connected if you feel that stirring and then taking that to prayer and seeing where God wants you. Archbishop: As I read Lives of the Saints so often, especially for a saint or a blessed who is outstanding for works of charity. You find that her/his mom or dad used to take them with them when they'd go out among the poor. And so it would be a parent and child as a team engaged in visiting the sick and feeding the hungry. And that's a beautiful thing. Mike: I like that you brought that up, Mary too. 'Cause I know, I think sometimes, I think we get in this trap where we think of kind of like formal service and acts of charity and then informal ones. And I think, you know, we tend to think that like, oh, I don't do anything because I'm not necessarily, you know going to the soup kitchen downtown or doing some of that. I'm not actually going into a prison to minister to prisoners, you know? But, but in a very real way that that's kind of more the the very explicit or formalized way of doing it, which is great. But I think there's also an informal — it's like you said, Mary it's just within our homes, within our families, Archbishop, I think you mentioned this as well, but I mean, what does it look like to visit, you know, maybe that person that's mental health — has mental health issues, or they're kind of annoying to be around or something like that. And that's, they're mentally sick and then to spend time with them to visit them, you're kind of doing a work of mercy there, even though it's not formally through your parish per se, or through — you sign up through a website, you know what I mean? I don't know. There's just something good about making sure you keep both of those through that discernment intact. And that's not to negate one for the other it's just to kind of say with the Archbishop discernment, I think that was a great point. Archbishop, you know? Archbishop: Everybody will be given some opportunity for the works of mercy by the Holy Spirit. Even the bedridden will have some to advance evangelical charity. Mary: That's so true. I was talking with some moms locally, just about kind of this whole concept of where we find the time. 'Cause, you know, everybody feels really busy and how do we find the time? And several moms gave me really great advice and it ties to what you just said, Archbishop Vigneron, that every — and we definitely have to go out and seek things for sure, but that every single day praying in the beginning of the day, "Lord, show me where you want me to serve." And things will come into our path. You know, when our eyes are open to these opportunities to regularly and daily live the corporal works of mercy, beyond kind of the extra ordinary things, when we're seeking service and things like that. But every single day there's opportunity to serve and to live in the spirit of the corporate works. Mike: And I know the archdiocese just came out with that evangelicalcharity.org, which is kind of what they call it, Evangelical Charity Finder. So, you know, if you're looking for ways to get involved, let's say your parish isn't necessarily offering as much or what, you know, strikes a chord with you or what you've discerned the Lord might be calling you to do. It's actually a great website that, like, really ties together a variety of organizations for around the entire archdiocese in ways to kind of plug in, to serve. And it's just really cool. I know they have, or recently they have the Adoration Finder and they have the Mass Finder and now they have Evangelical Charity Finder. So I think through the technology, it's really cool that they're trying to make it really simple and find ways for you to plug in, to be the disciple God has called you to be, you know? Mary: Is there anything Archbishop that you want to add before we kind of conclude this discussion on evangelical charity and the corporal works of mercy? Archbishop: Just how grateful I am to God for the the many good seed seeds planted here in the archdiocese. I think as I look out and know our diocese, the people of God are very devoted to advancing the kingdom through these works of mercy. And I give God praise and thanks and I invite everybody who might be listening to join me in that. Think about, you know, maybe the final point is in all of this, we can look to Father Solanus as our great local guy who has taught us how to share in evangelical charity. Mary: So this is the part of the podcast where we have the opportunity to ask you Archbishop Vigneron, some questions that the faithful have submitted. If you are listening and you have a question, please feel free to email eyesonjesuspodcast@aod.org, make sure to include your name, your parish, and of course your question. Archbishop Vigneron. Our first question comes from Marianne at St. Frances de Chantale in Sterling Heights. Mary says, "Which religious order is most closely connected to your spirituality? Did you ever consider a religious order?" Archbishop: I'll take the second one first. Yes. Before I made my commitment to be incardinated as a cleric in the archdiocese of Detroit, I did certainly give serious thought to whether I might be called to religious life. And the two that at that time, particularly stood out for me were the Benedictine Order, to be a monk, or to be a Jesuit. That was —those were the ones I most seriously thought about what orders are connected to my spirituality. I think the Society of Jesus, the Jesuits in my own formation I have used and continue to use many of the the methods and the wisdom that St. Ignatius gave to the society. I think that's been very important for my own priestly spirituality. Also the Benedictines particularly in my role as a leader in the Church, I think what St. Benedict says in the rule —especially in regard to the role of the Abbott — has been very helpful for me to think about as I try to lead the priests who are under my care. And the third group I would mention are the the Oratory of St. Philip Neri. And he was able, St. Philip, to incorporate a great spirit of humanism from the end of the Renaissance into his own way of priestly ministry. You know, nothing human is alien to the Christian. It can all be elevated by the power of grace and Saint Philip did that. And so I find a great support in what I read about the life of the fathers in the oratory. Mike: Very cool. Archbishop, question two, here we go. It's from Tony at St. Kieran in Shelby township, and he has a variety of questions, all surrounded around the idea of the nuncio. So, "What is the role of a nuncio? Do all of your communications as Archbishop, all communications to the Pope and the Vatican go through this office through the nuncio? And also how does a priest or bishop become an nuncio?" And I'm imagining he's talking about a papal nuncio, is that right? What do you think? Yeah. Archbishop: Right, probably. The role of the nuncio is to be the personal representative of the Holy Father within the country to which he is missioned. And that involves two particular kinds of works: to be the Holy Father's representative to the diocese, the local Churches within that nation, and to be the representative of the Holy Father to the national government and here in our country, of course, to represent our Holy Father before the federal government, to the President, to Congress, all of the the government in Washington. And by analogy, that would be the case in all the other there's, I think almost 150 countries in the world that have nuncios. Do all the communications to the Holy See, go through the nuncio? They don't have to, but I think it's advisable. And that's how I send all of my communications, either to the Pope himself or to the various cabinet offices, so-called congregations or dicastries that I communicate with, because it's important for the, for the nuncio to know what's going on. Archbishop: And the Cardinals to whom I write very well might want to ask the nuncio what he thinks about something I've presented. And so it's important for him to be well-informed. And how does someone become a nuncio? The ordinary way is for a priest to be invited to study to enter into the diplomatic service of the Holy See which involves studying Canon Law and theology in a more intense way. And then a priest is missioned to a nunciature to — really this is our particular word for embassy — to serve in an embassy throughout someplace in the world. Usually a priest is sent to a place where he can further master a language other than his own native language. So a priest who's a native English speaker might be sent to a country where Spanish is the language. So he has to work at that, because these these men in the diplomatic service are expected to be fluent in several languages so that they can be posted wherever they're needed. A man spends a good bit of his priestly ministry serving in an nunciature and at an appropriate time, he is nominated to be a nuncio himself. This is the ordinary way. Now this there's also an extraordinary way that this happens that a man becomes a nuncio. Recently, there was an American priest — well l don't, not recently, maybe 10, some years ago... Mary: That's recent, it's relative. Mike: In Church history that's recent! Archbishop: He worked in the Roman curia and there was a very particular need of his gifts in one of the countries in the world. And so the Holy Father made him a nuncio, even though he hadn't been an alumnus of the diplomatic service. Mary: That is super interesting. Just to kind of think about and contemplate. Archbishop: One of the most interesting nominations of a nuncio is — oh, I'm sorry I can't think of his name right now. He was the Bishop of in North Dakota. He was a German born man. He was a Bishop of — I don't know if it was Bismarck, no Fargo. He was the Bishop of Fargo. And at the end of the Second World War, the allies in Germany insisted that an American needed to be the nuncio in West Germany and they didn't have many likely candidates. So they asked the Holy Father to ask, to name this Bishop from Fargo to be the nuncio in Germany because they wanted a reliable American citizen at the end of the Second World War. Mary: Gosh, that's really fascinating stuff. I've never even considered, you know, the kind of the diplomatic piece of the church and how we stay connected at a global level so. Fascinating. Archbishop: Well it's a, it's a very long history. St. Gregory the Great, Gregory the First himself was an ambassador from the Pope to the emperor in Byzantium, in Constantinople prior to his own election. And this has been a part of the life of the Church for a very long time. And it's it's a way for the Church to be present to the world and to be a moral voice in the life of nations. Everybody can speak. Other nations are very interested — not to say they're uninterested in human dignity, but they have to be concerned with national interests with trade. But the Holy See, the Holy Father speaks for the dignity of the human person, always and seeks to advance world peace through the principles of the moral law and the Gospel. Mary: It's good stuff to think about. So much that you could read up on and learn, I'm sure. That's an interesting answer. Thanks for sharing. Our last question is from Christine, at St. Anastasia in Troy. We've asked you this question before, but it is time to ask you again, "What is the last good book you read spiritual or non-spiritual and why did you enjoy it?" Archbishop: I'm almost at the end of a thorough reading, a full reading of Cardinal Newman's Idea of a University, and I'm enjoying very, very much and why? Because even when the Cardinal isn't specifically addressing the topic of "what is a university," he has so many wise things to say about the Church, about culture, about holiness, about the way to live in the world. Many of you have heard me say before I consider St. John Henry Newman, a great mentor, spiritual father. Mike: Mary, do you remember we had to read that before we went to Franciscan. Mary: I did? That book? Yeah, I do not remember that. Mike: Yeah. It was assigned between our senior year of high school and we had to read it before we got to Franciscan. Mary: I do remember summer reading. I don't remember that it was that book. That's very interesting. I wonder if I, Cliff Notes-ed it. Mike: I'm sure much of it was over my head as an 18-year old? Mary: Yeah we were probably a little young to kind of totally saturate all that information. Yeah. That's awesome. Mike: Well, Archbishop, I was wondering too, is there — before we get to asking you about your — actually, yeah, let me ask you that. So Archbishop do you have any prayer intentions that you would request that we pray for you? Archbishop: Yes, please. We are already into the process of advancing the Families of Parishes in wave one. We're seeing some of the challenges that come with this change. So please particularly pray for the priests and the leaders in the parish and the parishioners to be patient with some of the difficulties that necessarily come with change. This is very important to — this is not change for change sake. It's not even change for the sake of institutional health, principally. It's for institutional health, so that we can be engaged in evangelization. That's the ultimate end, and that's the good that makes the sacrifices worthwhile. We need to keep our eyes fixed on Jesus. Mary: Amen. Mike: And then our namesake. Eyes fixed on Jesus. So before I asked for your closing blessing, I just want to remind all of our listeners that hopefully if they found this conversation especially about evangelical charity helpful, or, or even felt something of a calling stirring in their heart to get involved, I remind people to please visit that new website, evangelicalcharity.org. And there, you will find obviously a listing and you can search for organizations near you to volunteer, to donate, and to pray for. And so, you know, whether you you're, you're bedridden and maybe you're an older person, maybe you're young, and you're looking for something to do, please visit this website and there's variety of ways to get engaged. So with that Archbishop, I wonder if you might be able to close us out with a blessing? Archbishop: I'd be very glad to do so. In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Heavenly father, we give you praise and thanks for your many good gifts. We give you thanks ahead of time for whatever good fruit will come from our witness to you today and the listeners who attend to this podcast. And may almighty God bless you, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Mike: Amen. Thank you so much, Archbishop. Archbishop: You're very welcome. Mary: Stay tuned for the next episode of Eyes on Jesus, a new episode every month. And if you enjoyed listening, you might also like Detroit Stories, a podcast from the Archdiocese of Detroit. Find it on your favorite podcast app.