Archbishop:
I'm Archbishop Allen Vigneron of the Archdiocese of Detroit and this is the Eyes on Jesus podcast.
Mike:
Hello, and welcome to the Eyes on Jesus podcast with Archbishop Allen Vigneron. I'm your host, Mike Chamberland,
Mary:
And I am your host Mary Wilkerson.
Mike:
We are excited to release new episodes once a month, so please make sure to subscribe and review wherever it is that you listen to podcasts. Archbishop, welcome, and thank you once again for joining us.
Archbishop:
It's great to be back with you, Mike, and with you, Mary. So good.
Mike:
Great. How has been your last month? I know we're warming up in the weather a little bit. Things are, you know, we're past Easter and I know Lent is oftentimes very, very busy. How's your last month been Archbishop?
Archbishop:
Filled with graces. Perhaps most — well, indeed, most significantly, this is the time of year for priesthood ordinations. That's a great blessing. Also, we were able to have, with social distancing, Commencement this year for the seminary. Both the 2020 grads and the 2021, which was a real blessing,
Mike:
Oh, you did both! Beautiful.
Archbishop:
Yeah. I made my retreat. We — the priests are meeting together to move forward with the Families of Parishes, I've been part of those meetings. That's a great blessing. And I've had the opportunity to offer special prayers, special Mass, both for firefighters and then on another occasion for police officers.
Mary:
It's been a little busy for you these last few weeks, huh?
Archbishop:
Well it feels good. And you know, things are opening up. We're getting a lot of positive direction from the health authorities about how we can begin to move back toward normal. So, yeah, it's great.
Mary:
Which feels good. So did you do your personal retreat right after Easter? Is that when you take it?
Archbishop:
No, I did it to just a week ago. Typically I make my retreat around Mother's Day.
Mary:
Very good. And do you, can you remind me, I think you talked about your retreat before, do you go off solo when you do that retreat?
Archbishop:
Well this year I did. Typically the bishops of Ohio and Michigan, which make up a region in the the way the Bishops Conference is organized, we do some retreat days together, and then I would go on my own at another time. But this year we, looking ahead, we thought we weren't able to be together. So I took the time to be by myself. Me and Jesus, and the Father and the Holy Spirit and Our Lady, too.
Mike:
Do you travel somewhere?
Archbishop:
I did. I went — there's a group of sisters that are my friends that have a family catechesis center and a farm over outside of Grand Rapids. So I spent the time there on the farm.
Mike:
Beautiful.
Mary:
Nice. I was going to say, I was able to see you, actually, at the the Mass that you had for police officers. I wasn't at the firefighters one — my brother's a police officer and it was really cool to see Blessed Sacrament Cathedral filled with all these men and women, right, who give their lives to such profound service. So it was neat to celebrate that Mass and be there in attendance.
Archbishop:
Well, I hope I was able to be some help to them. And you remember Mary, I made a reference to the 13th chapter of Saint Paul's letter to the Romans with his very clear affirmation that anybody who has authority in the civil order acts as a delegate from God, and certainly that's true for police officers, and so it's a way to grow in holiness — a very challenging way obviously, but something we need to stand with them.
Mike:
Wonderful. Now I know, Archbishop, you recently did, and you mentioned earlier, the ordinations. So I know we just, we're blessed to have three new priests for the Archdiocese of Detroit. So we have Father Robert Voiland Father John Dudek, and Father Zaid Chabaan. What was the ordinations like? I know it's obviously a little bit different probably this year than the previous year with COVID and everything. Was it — how did everything go with the ordinations?
Archbishop:
Think quite well. It's sort of a semi-COVID. Last year, because of the restrictions, we had a separate ordination ceremony for each man with very limited attendance in the cathedral. This year, because we have been still under some protocols, it wasn't quite as open as it would be in years past, but it was a lot more back to normal. And I mean, always ordinations are a great blessing for the local Church, these — certainly that, but here as we move out of the pandemic a particular experience of grace.
Mike:
Yeah. And that's got to be one of the blessings for you as an Archbishop, obviously, is the regular ordinations of priests. And I know it's something that, you know — how long have you been an Archbishop?
Archbishop:
Since 2009.
Mike:
2009. So that's, that's a lot of men that you've ordained over so many years, so it's got to be a real blessing each time you do it. Right?
Archbishop:
It's a great blessing for me. I love the priesthood and it's a great joy to share this grace with men who then will be able to work along with the other members of the presbyterate and me to be of service to people like you and Mary.
Mike:
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Mary:
It's cool to think of the, I'm imagining — you know, I've been able to be at a couple ordinations, you know, and I'm always way in the back watching it, but it's so profound. Like you can feel the Holy Spirit present. It has to be such a unique thing for you as a bishop to be ordaining these men and knowing all of what they're saying yes to. You know, the beauty of it, but also the hardship, it's such a blended beautiful thing. Just, I imagine looking at their faces, you get to see as you pray over each one, it's a very profound moment.
Archbishop:
It is indeed. But you know, Mary, isn't it the case that there, there is no authentic Christian vocation that isn't a blend of joys and sorrows. And that that's how life is. And it's in living as a daughter or son of God in all of that that God is glorified.
Mary:
Yeah, that's so true. I remember on my wedding day before, right before I walked down the aisle, you know, having this moment of realizing that I had no idea what the future would hold in my marriage.
Archbishop:
[laughs]
Mary:
Do you know what I mean? Like, thinking there's going to be highs, but there's also going to be lows, you know? And what you're saying yes to is the whole complete picture of that. And there is some similarities, you know, sometimes obviously our vocations are so different, but there are some real similarities between them.
Archbishop:
Mary I really — I mean, I think maybe not so much alinke in a lot of outward things, but I think in the deepest things, profoundly similar.
Mary:
Right? Or you can go back to what you were saying — I'm sorry, Mike, I keep interrupting you — about police officers though. Like that this is their path or their vocation, their path to holiness, their path to sanctity. You know, all of these vocations that we walk in, whether it's kind of our primary vocation or what we do for a living, the deeper thing happening is it's how we grow in holiness. It's how we see God. Which is really beautiful when you take a second to think of it.
Archbishop:
I've been thinking a lot about — this came from my retreat — the Christian life is a school by which the Holy Spirit teaches us how to be a child of the Father. And it's lifelong learning.
Mary:
Yeah. I'll stop interrupting you now, Mike.
Mike:
No, you're fine. I — my apologies. Archbishop, I was going to ask you that, you know, I know you've done so many ordinations over the years. I didn't know if there was a particular part of the Rite of Ordination or a particular aspect within the Mass of Ordination that you found most profound, or especially on your position as an Archbishop, too, doing the ordination. Is there an aspect that you find most compelling or profound?
Archbishop:
Well, the most — to me, the most touching, the most poignant moment is when I impose my hands on the man to be, I'm ordaining. I mean, this is an ancient gesture. I mean, you can read, it's witnessed throughout the Old Testament, a way to call down God on an individual, on a sacrifice. And then it was in the temple and an animal sacrifice, to impose hands, to call down the Spirit. And when I do it, I mean, it's such a simple gesture, but I think about how many times it's been repeated and this unbroken line that I continue, that goes all the way back to the apostles. Or you read, for example, the imposition of hands on Matthias or the imposition of hands on the seven new deacons, that sort of thing.
Mary:
Yeah. Well, I am excited about today's podcast topic. We're going to be discussing the domestic church. This topic is particularly timely because we are coming — it's coming to you during the year of St. Joseph, the month of May, which is the month of Mary, the Year of the Family celebrating five years since Amoris Laetitia, and in addition, this episode comes just a few months before the first World Day for Grandparents and Elderly on the fourth Sunday of July. So Archbishop Vigneron, can you start us off by talking to us about what we mean when we say the Domestic Church?
Archbishop:
Sure, Mary, glad to talk about it. I think probably the most helpful place to start is the, with the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council's decree on the Church — constitution on the Church, in which it described and kind of canonized, the term of the family as the Domestic Church. I did a little bit of research and I found that St. John Chrysostom even used this title. Maybe the root of it goes back to the time when the Church was in her infancy, and the only Church was the domestic church, the church that met in households. We weren't able to — we just hadn't grown to the point where even, were it legal, we would have been able to have our own buildings. We weren't that large, but I think what the Second Vatican Council was saying is that the family is the Church in microcosm.
Archbishop:
It's a place of communion, and a communion that's established by love. And we have to be careful today when we talk about love, a lot of people misunderstand it. I think for us disciples of Jesus love is defined by the cross and the resurrection. Paschal love. So the family is a place where a husband and wife make a paschal commitment to be sacraments of Christ in the Church. And it's a way then that they live in communion with the Holy Trinity, and like the Trinity itself, this communion is open to more people. Particularly it's the family. And so this reality has a mission, which is part of the mission of the Church: to share the faith and to form new members for the life of the Church. I think this mission is both to within and to without. Husbands and wives have a mission to one another. To support one another in their discipleship, on the path of holiness.
Archbishop:
They have a mission for the children and children have a mission to their parents, too. Depends on where they are in their own age. I think maybe the mission of a one-year-old is to demand love, but the mission of a 30-year-old to parents is a very different reality. And there is a mission to the wider world. Especially I think the mission of families to other families. This is really important. Everybody wants to have a happy family, and by happy Christian families witnessing to the joy that comes from the Gospel, I think they make the Gospel attractive to other people.
Mary:
Yeah. It's such a neat thing that the Church has put such a value and importance on this. Have you seen, during this pandemic year, the family take on kind of a new role or be highlighted with this understanding of domestic church? I'm even thinking about the fact that, you know, for a couple of months, we were worshiping by watching Mass on television and making spiritual communions. Right? So how did, how did you see as Archbishop that kind of being changed or highlighted during the pandemic year?
Archbishop:
Well, what I've heard from the field from the parish priests and their coworkers is that moms and dads, families have stepped up to the plate and in this time of pandemic and been even more attentive to be sure that they share faith, they share prayer and share the commitment to trust in God's Providence. And people have been very creative, very innovative in how they gather as a family. I've also heard accounts of people taking advantage of the shutdown to spend more time together and be more engaged each with the other.
Mary:
I think that was one of the hidden blessings of the pandemic was, if we were able to be intentional about it, having the rhythm of our family kind of returned to a simpler time where we were able to, you know, pray together more and just spend time together. We couldn't go anywhere else, right? Except for the four walls of our home. And so we got to see that in a neat way.
Archbishop:
It's a little bit like becoming a community of hermits devoted to prayer and contemplation.
Mary:
Right! It's funny. The Detroit Catholic, right at the beginning, when we found out that public Mass was going to be suspended, they did a article. And so many families were even building like prayer spaces underneath their televisions with icons and crucifixes to be able to join together and worship with their parishes virtually, you know? So it was neat to see how some of that, I don't know, became more concrete or more tangible in this year.
Archbishop:
And what the sociologists tell us from their own studies, Mary, is that that extra attention that the sons and daughters notice makes a profound impression on them, that if their moms and dads take this much care, it must really be important. And there's something here to be treasured.
Mary:
That's great.
Mike:
Archbishop, I know you mentioned that the domestic church really can apply even going historically back to like, you know, the early, very early Church where churches — we didn't have church buildings, we worshiped in homes and spaces like that. Does that term really apply to all families? And what I mean by that is even single people or couples who don't have children and even yourself, you know, a celibate Bishop. How does that relate, that tie in to the idea or concept of domestic church and family?
Archbishop:
Well, yes, everybody's got some sort of familial relationship, unless of course, a woman or a man is an orphan of — I mean, it can happen that people don't have particular blood relatives, but by and large, we all have some familial relationships. I mean, I think the place to start in thinking about that, Mike, is to think about the template, the paradigm of the family, which was established at creation with Adam and Eve, husband and wife told to be fruitful and multiply. And so what we in sociology talk describe as the nuclear family is the, sort of the central image, but it isn't the only reality. Out of that, lots of other things grow. You can have families in an analogous sense people who live that paradigm in other ways. That's what's really important.
Archbishop:
And it really is about being in a communion in an intimate home-like, homely communion that is open to other people. And we know lots of people — I know a lot of families that are very generous in being sure that a friend or a neighbor who otherwise seems to be without family has the joy of familial relationships. I think that's the best way to think about it. Not to hold up models as a competition for one another, but to see them as other forms of family outside of the paradigm to share in the identity and also the mission and the challenge of the template family.
Mike:
You know, I just read an article recently that was talking about how priests specifically and bishops, you know, they're thought of as not really having a family, or, you know, when they're asked to speak on matters of family life, and it's kind of like, well, why are you speaking on this? You know?
Archbishop:
[laughs] Because I had to wait in line to use the toilet, too, just like everybody else!
Mike:
Yeah. [laughs]
Mary:
Oh, that makes me laugh. We have a very small house with one bathroom and my children are always waiting in line.
Mike:
Yeah.
Archbishop:
That's family, isn't it?, Or eat what's put in front of you and not complain and to do your chores. And it's about a life together. It's not some sort of fantasy world. But go ahead, Mike, I interrupted, I just couldn't help it! [laughs]
Mike:
No, that's fine. The article was was kind of going on to say, obviously you guys come from families, of course, priests and bishops, but it was also mentioning that, you know, you oftentimes you wear rings that are to designate that you are the father of a family. And it looks a little different than that nuclear family, but just as a regular father would lay down his life for his wife and his children, so priests and bishops are called to do of course, as well. So it might look a little different, but you are definitely part of that parish family or a larger context, which I thought it was just a good reminder to me of, on a different pitch or different level, you're doing the same thing as us just looks a little different, you know?
Archbishop:
Right, it's like I was expressing it before, the family as the Lord created it, the template serves as the measure for so many other relationships. You know, priest is called father and I mean, we're taught and it's drummed into us that this is not about being an on your own, 'do as you wish' kind of bachelor, but just like a husband and a father belongs to his wife and children and their good is his first call, that's what it means to be a priest, to be a spiritual father.
Mary:
I've never heard it put that way. That's really beautiful to think of it in that context, you know?
Archbishop:
Well it can be — it's a challenge, isn't it? Always to be owned by somebody else. I mean, Mary, you must have some days when you want to change your name from Mama.
Mary:
Archbishop Vigneron, I was sitting in my van yesterday after we got home from church and my husband said, why are you sitting in the van? And I said, I just need a minute before I go into the chaos and I just need to take a [inaudible]. So, absolutely that's — and I guess the way that you just highlighted, it's interesting to think about the similarities of the obligation to, you know, your parishioners as a priest or to the Church, right, as your bride that it's similar to the obligations that Mike and I hold within our marriages and in our families.
Archbishop:
Exactly. And it's the foundation of so many other human realities. I mean, this is the way God made the human being, human persons, male and female, He created them. This is the point Saint John Paul gets at when he talks about the nuptial meaning of the body. Everybody's made for this kind of relationship, this mutual giving and receiving. And it's not like the romance channel. I mean, we all recognize that it's about the day in and day out fidelity of taking out the garbage and going to work. And for the priest, you know, doing his duty, being patient with the people that he otherwise finds it difficult to be patient with. This — I have a young, well, he's not so young anymore, a man I knew when he was in med school, he's a physician. He said, nothing makes you grow up as fast as having kids. Oh, you have to become the adult then.
Mike:
You know, I know that our Church has for a long time held up the Holy Family obviously as a great model and inspiration and guide for us as families. How has that personally inspired you? The idea of the Holy Family and reflection on that, Archbishop?
Archbishop:
Well particularly in this year of St Joseph, it's has been an opportunity to think more about the figure of St. Joseph and especially his role as the custodian, the guardian, the trustee of the family of Christ. And I think that's an example for fathers in marriage. And I think it's an example for priests in particular. But, you know, it's an example for grandfather's, it's an example. Joseph is an example for uncles who do a lot of fathering, I think.
Mary:
Well, we're going to kind of pivot just a little bit and talk about the fact that this last year Pope Francis announced that we would celebrate the year of Amoris Laetitia. The year of Amoris Laetita family, named after his apostolic exhortation that was released five years ago on March 19th in 2016. This special year that he announced began on March 19th of this year and it's going to conclude on June 26, 2022 with the world meeting of families in Rome with the Holy Father. So I'm going to ask you a tough question. If you can kind of sum up Amoris Laetitia in just a few sentences or a few thoughts, what would you say that this apostolic letter is about? Or exhortation is about?
Archbishop:
I think it highlights once more themes that were already put out in front of us, recapitulated in Lumen Gentium, in the Decree on the Life of the Laity that about the universal call to holiness. And that marriage is a particular call to holiness. And so the Holy Father recapitulates what's happened in the decades since the Second Vatican Council and puts it back in the center of our awareness, particularly in the time when the life of families seems so challenged. And there are so many doubts raised about the worth of family life. We live in a profoundly individualistic culture, and I think the Holy Father wants to recognize the challenges that families face and holds up again the vocation of family life. And then I think on the point of Amoris Laetita, one of the points after doing all of that is to challenge us pastors, bishops, and priests and deacons, and really the whole Church, you catechists as well, to think about what we need to do to be supportive for families as they face, as they try to live out their vocation. I don't know, that's a long summary, Mary, but that'll do.
Mary:
No I think that was a great summary. You know, when I remember when it came out, because so many people were anticipating what would be in the document and it ended up being such a beautiful, I think, kind of exhortation to us all to live the reality of family in a deeper way, and to be, you know, to be intentional about the way that we're loving each other. And so when I'm going to ask you one more follow-up question, if that's okay. From the letter Amoris Laetita, what exactly would you describe or what is an example of an Amoris Laetitia family? Like, so we announced that this is what the year was going to be called. What does that look like?
Archbishop:
I think it's a family of service, where everybody serves everybody else. There's not just takers, but everybody's a giver. Now that means everybody takes, too. Everybody is the recipient of love, but it's reciprocated. I think it's a family where — it's a family in which the members put the community of the family first.
Mary:
I think that's a great way to describe it. Even when you were talking about the one-year-old just a few minutes ago, I was thinking about how my little ones, the babies have taught me something profound about service, right? So, and I know a lot of mothers have shared that, too, the way that you think of children as evangelizers, as they get older, you know, and start to speak and ask questions about God, but that real raw that we're here to serve one another become so clear when lived out in the family, I think.
Archbishop:
Mary, at what point in your children's maturity do you try to get them to be helpful? I mean, I think that's something that I see that's really beautiful. I think almost instinctively kids want to help, I mean and, you know, you get a little, a mini vacuum or get the dust cloth. When's the time for that. I mean, maybe as soon as possible? [laughs]
Speaker 3:
Right. It starts right away. And, you know, one of the challenges is allowing for that help because even now, you know, my kids are getting a little bit older and when I'm preparing dinner, they'll be like, mom, can I help you with dinner? And, you know, sometimes, Archbishop, it makes it a longer process when they help with dinner, it's like stopping and giving them those opportunities. Because like you said, from the time they're two or three, they're asking to sweep, they're asking to fold, you know, the towels with you. And so kind of inviting them into that and seeing that as a real moment to educate on serving one another, you know? This conversation is really highlighting for me that when we approach those things and connect it to Gospel truths, they become so much more profound, you know? Even folding the towels. Yeah. What are some ways that you think families can strive to build up their domestic churches? So have you seen, you know, a couple families that really just show you what it is to live domestic church and what are some things that they do?
Archbishop:
I think praying together praying out loud and especially some spontaneous prayer, shared prayer that really gets to what's important for the members of the families. I think that's at the heart of it. Also sharing parts of the sacred scripture. I think being engaged in service, but doing it quite intentionally with an explanation of what's going on, I think that's also important. And opening up the circle of the family when that's appropriate. I mean, it can't, it's not all — if I were a dad, I would say, well, we need some of our own time. We can't always have the neighbors or even your cousins, you've got to have some of our own time. But we should be generous in what we have. And it isn't necessarily so much the things we have as the love we have and peace in our family. I think those are important.
Mike:
You know, Archbishop, obviously Pope Francis is — there's a lot surrounding the family. And these last couple of years, obviously he wants us to kind of relook at Amoris Laetitia. Obviously we had the year of Saint Joseph, this coming Year of the Family. Do you have any thoughts on why — why do you think Pope Francis would put all these kinds of celebrations back to back? And then also the celebration of grandparents as well? Do you think there's something stirring in his mind as far as why he would focus so strictly on this these coming years?
Archbishop:
Well, I have to infer that there is, Mike. It seems to me pretty logical to make the inference. I presume it's from his own knowledge of the situation of the Church. And obviously we think about how the life of the Christian community is lived here in the United States, but he sees it throughout the whole world. And it has to be of concern for him in every part of the Church.
Mike:
Obviously, with that focus on St. Joseph, that's obviously very focused on, you know, kind of that spirit of fatherhood and adoptive fatherhood. And then obviously the look at Amoris Laetitia is more of a look at the family. Obviously there's an obvious connection there between fatherhood and family life. Do you think there's something maybe more going on as well? Like that he's trying to point us to, as far as a connection going there?
Archbishop:
With St. Joseph? Yeah, I think it, it's not just the Joseph is an example, but it points us to the Holy Family and that every family can be, and is called to be a kind of an incarnation of the Holy Family. A new, you might say a sacrament of the Holy Family. And it that's both a consolation and a challenge, I think. It helps us understand that the family is not simply a utilitarian reality.
Mary:
I like that we've talked about St. Joseph and, and obviously the the letter Amoris Laetitia, and then we're discussing this in the month of May. And the month of May is my favorite month for a whole bunch of different reasons. But we also say that the month of May is the month dedicated to Mary. And clearly our Blessed Mother has such a heart for families and can be such a tool for all of us to live our families in a more holy and intentional way. Do you know why May is dedicated to the Blessed Mother? Like why it's this month?
Archbishop:
Mary, I looked it up in the encyclopedia and the author says, nobody's sure. It's just something that's grown in the life of the Church. And in our common awareness, it makes a great deal of sense. And the author speculated that it has to do with the sweetness of the month and the beauty of it. It's a great joy to be delivered from the harshness of winter and we don't have the intense summer. We've got a lot of beautiful flowers and it seems just like the right time to think about the Blessed Virgin Mary..
Mary:
Yeah. It seems like you always talk — you always sure-up my faith when you discuss the Blessed Mother. So I wanted to ask you kind of at a personal level, what are some things that you've done in your life or currently are doing that kind of strengthened your devotion to the Blessed Mother? What are ways that you have increased that devotion in your life by getting know her? How do you do that, if people are listening and want a deeper relationship with the Blessed Mother?
Archbishop:
Well, two things. I mean, I think especially if one has a childhood experiences that are prayerful and a sense of devotion to Our Lady, and most of us do, I think go back and recapitulate those. Capture them again. Sometimes these memories grow dim but there was something — there's a treasure to be mined there from the early experience of the motherhood of the Blessed Virgin. For myself it has to do with a devotion my parents shared with me that they had, which is to Our Lady of Perpetual Help in our parish in Anchorville. For the nine days before the Feast of the Immaculate Conception, Father would have a Redemptorist priest come and preach the novena. And my parents were very faithful to that. Now they couldn't both go to church at the same time because there were little ones in the house.
Archbishop:
So you know, they did the relay, but when I was old enough to go, I went with them and I saw how important that was to my mom and dad. And I can still hear my mom saying in times when she was worried about something, Our Lady will help us, she'll take care of us. And the other thing was a devotion to Our Lady that was fostered by the sisters in school. We had, you know, urged to have a May altar. Those practices. So, I mean, I think, too, for me, part of it has been going back and picking up on the impulses of my childhood. Today it has to do with making Our Lady very much a constant theme in my daily prayer and making that sense of her protection, part of what I do hour by hour. And through my involvement in the Order of Malta, I have reignite, my devotion to Our Lady of Lourdes.
Mary:
I love when you speak about Our Lady of Lourdes, it's just very obvious to see your love for her. And just as one follow-up question to our Blessed Mother, because we are talking about the domestic church, how do you think increasing a devotion to the Blessed Mother can help to strengthen our domestic churches?
Archbishop:
Well, I think to have that devotion and to share it in the family is very important. I know I have some friends who say a whole rosary is pretty tough for the whole family, but a decade I think might be the way to begin and then let who can finish it on her own, his own later/ but some kind of shared external devotion. I think a picture, a statue of Our Lady prominent in the home is very important. And just for, especially for moms, but especially for the dad to to at least talk about the Lady — Our Lady as part of the family circle.
Mary:
That's good. I remember growing up, I would, we would pray the rosary on Sunday nights as a whole family. And as you know, as middle school and high school children, sometimes that was tedious. But I think in some ways, I don't know, there's a lot of elements that go into life, but I'm one of six children and all of us right now are practicing Catholics, which is sometimes unheard of that we kind of live our faith with, you know, all six of us siblings. And I wonder sometimes if that's because my parents were so intentional about kind of entrusting our family to the protection and to the devotion to Our Lady, you know?
Mike:
You know, before we conclude, we be remiss if we didn't really mention obviously grandparents and their importance and family life as well. I know we're about two months away from celebrating the first World Day of Grandparents and Elderly on July 25th. And I know personally, just from conducting many Confirmation interviews over the many years I've done ministry, so many of these young people coming in for Confirmation interviews really highlight the importance of grandparents and what they mean to them. And oftentimes they're chosen as sponsors. Archbishop, you know, what do you think as far as the importance of considering grandparents and the elderly when we talk about Catholic family specifically?
Archbishop:
Well, I think it's — you're absolutely on the mark, Mike. I mean, it's my own experience, how important my grandparents were in my life. When I think about my own passage to the Father's house, I think one of the great things is going to be reunion with my grandparents. I think what you have are adults fully grown up who at the same time, aren't quite as I don't know, intense in their adultness as moms and dads have to be, you know?
Mary:
That's such a good way to put it.
Archbishop:
Grandparents can be grown up and at the same time, a little more flexible and indulgent. When you hear grandparents say, "Oh, that's my job." You know, you make them behave. I'll just enjoy them. And grandparents do make their grandchildren behave, but it doesn't have to be quite as intense. And I think that it's important to have a whole range of of bonds between young people and adults and grandparents have a profound closeness that is particularly warm, I think. And non-threatening.
Mary:
The Holy Father Pope Francis he's, I've heard him talk about his grandmother quite a bit, and how much she impacted his faith, you know? And so it's really beautiful to see when that, you know, all comes together as it should. Is there anything else you want to add to the topic of domestic church before we close this conversation?
Archbishop:
Well, I think — you know, the moms and dads, the families who might listen to this, if you could particularly pray for your pastors and those who work with them in the pastoral care of your community, that we do a good job and help you walk your way in holiness. It's a big responsibility.
Mary:
Awesome, thank you, Archbishop. Well, we've come to the point in our podcast where we get to ask you, Archbishop Vigneron, questions that were submitted by the faithful. If you're listening and you have a question, we would encourage you to email eyesonjesus podcast@aod.org. When you email us, be sure to include your name, your parish, and of course your question. So Archbishop, the first question comes from Eileen at Saint Francis Cabrini and Eileen asks, "You were in the high school seminary during Vatican II, and in minor and major seminary during the implementation. What was it like to go through formation during this historic time in the Church?"
Archbishop:
Chaos.
Mary:
I bet. [laughs]
Archbishop:
Well, I came to the seminary, high school seminary in September of 1962, which was a month before the Council began. And my experience in those years, those first years in the high school seminary would have been very similar to the experience of my great uncle, who was a priest. But over the years, things shifted radically. The Council called for change. People who directed the change weren't always sure what it ought to look like. And so we were the objects of lots of experiments and the way to make it, to move forward was to focus on the essentials. Keep my eyes fixed on Jesus, really. And be faithful to the basic elements of what it means to be a priest and how one becomes prepared for the priesthood. But it was a time of great shifts. Let's put it that way. I don't know if anybody — you know, you're both too young to think about 1968, but 1968 was in my mind, sort of the epitome of the challenges. It was the time of the student rebellions in Paris and throughout the United States there was unrest on campus. A lot of it had to do with the war in Vietnam. There was the very significant descent from Humane Vitae. It was a time of tempering I would say.
Mary:
Yeah, it's interesting now, just in modern day, whenever there's, you know, a document released from the Vatican or something, there's always such debate and conversation in Church circles and sometimes conversation isn't always charitable and it can get really intense. And I'm wondering, you know, as you were in seminary, if with some of your fellow seminarians, like, was there debate about where to land on these things and confusion? And what was it like?
Archbishop:
Yeah. Debate and confusion.
Mary:
Well, and people landing in different kinds of categories and seeing things differently. But I love that you noted that you keep your eyes fixed on Jesus during that. 'Cause that's — I've found a lot of comfort in that, in the modern age, as we kind of, I don't know, live in cultural chaos, that as long as I keep my eyes fixed on Jesus, through the teachings of the Church, I do feel more grounded.
Mike:
Man, I would love that could be a whole podcast topic right there, Archbishop. I'd love to hear all about your experience going through that, because I think, you know, not unlike today, I mean, I think obviously there was a different thing. There was a council of course. But just, you know, what led to all of the confusion, 'cause I think, — yeah, there's just a lot there. That'd be great to discuss, you know, so.
Mary:
Let's make a note for the future.
Mike:
Yeah. Maybe, maybe. Well, Archbishop I have a question here from Nancy at St. Patrick Church and she asked if you were left on a deserted island with only one sacramental, what would it be?
Archbishop:
Wow. That's — you know, first thing that comes to my mind is holy water. As a way to remember my baptism and I think — I use holy water as a way to sort of even physically extend the boundaries of the kingdom of God in my room and in my living space. On the other hand, I mean, you know, I'm told, I can only have one thing here, but —
Speaker 3:
And you can turn water into holy water, Archbishop, I'm just saying. Like, with the genie in the bottle asking for more wishes, I think you should go in a different direction.[laughs] A crucifix, I suppose.
Mary:
Yeah. All right. So our last question is from Peggy, at St. James in Novi. Peggy says, "You have a great devotion to the Blessed Mother, which we've spoken about before. What is your favorite Marian feast day and why?"
Archbishop:
Oh, this is another tough one. The one I guess I would hold up is the feast of Our Lady's Visitation because it's about her work as an evangelist. She brought the good news, the Word of God Incarnate to Elizabeth and Zachariah and especially to John the Baptist. So I think that's a really important feast day.
Mike:
I got to say, I thought you were going to say Our Lady of Lourdes. I'm surprised!
Mary:
So did I. I had you pegged for Our Lady of Lourdes.
Speaker 2:
I know. See, always learning more about the Archbishop.
Archbishop:
Well, Our Lady of Lourdes is a great day to remember how she came as an evangelist to the 19th century and to our time. But part of me thinks that my answer needs to be conditioned by going back to the New Testament. I think Our Lady of Lourdes is a new manifestation of Our Lady at her visitation to Elizabeth. Yeah.
Mike:
Well you're going into the iconic template of her evangelistic work, in a sense, you know? I mean, everything else has been, yeah, beautiful. Well, Archbishop, thanks so much again for being with us and for taking the time to share your thoughts, your reflections on these topics. I wonder if you might be willing to share with us any special requests or special prayer requests that we can offer for you on your behalf.
Archbishop:
Yes. I mean these are days when there's a great challenge to be faithful to God's plan for the human person. That I'd be a good leader for the Church. That the Holy Spirit give me the graces and light I need to proclaim the good news about God's plan for the human person against so many voices that contradict that.
Mike:
Amen. You got it. Archbishop. And Archbishop, would you mind, if you would, closing us with a closing prayer and blessing,
Archbishop:
Happy to do that. I have a prayer for St. Joseph right here, it's actually the text I keep at my desk from Pope Francis's letter on Joseph. St. Joseph, Guardian of the Redeemer, spouse of the Blessed Virgin Mary, to you, God entrusted his only son. In you, Mary placed her trust. With you, Christ became man. Blessed Joseph, to us, too, show yourself a father, and guide us in the path of life. Obtain for us, grace, mercy, and courage, and defend us from every evil. Amen. And may the blessing of almighty God, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit come down upon all of you, the listeners, and those they love and remain with us forever. Amen.
Mary:
Amen.
Mike:
Amen. Thanks Archbishop.
Mary:
Stay tuned for the next episode of Eyes on Jesus, a new episode every month. And if you enjoyed listening, you might also like Detroit Stories, a new podcast from the Archdiocese of Detroit. Find it on your favorite podcast app.