Eyes on Jesus Episode 14: The Next Step for Families of Parishes [Archbishop Vigneron] I'm Archbishop Allen Vigneron of the Archdiocese of Detroit, and this is the Eyes on Jesus podcast. [music] [Mary] Hello, and welcome to the Eyes on Jesus podcast with Archbishop Allen Vigneron. I'm your host, Mary Wilkerson. And today we have a special host, Erik Coules. [Erik] Good morning. Pleasure to be here. [Mary] Erik is with us today because, unfortunately, our host Michael Chamberland’s father unexpectedly passed away. We'll be keeping him and his family in our prayers. As always, we're excited to release new episodes once a month, so please make sure to subscribe and review wherever it is you listen to podcasts. Archbishop, welcome, and thank you for joining us. [Archbishop] Glad to be with you, Mary, and, I'm glad that Erik is able to be with us as well. So sad, the news about Mike's dad. I wonder, would it be all right if we offered a moment of prayer for his eternal repose. [Mary] That'd be fantastic. [Archbishop] Eternal rest grant unto him, O Lord, and let perpetual light shine upon him. May he rest in peace. May his soul and the souls of all the faithful departed, through the mercy of God, rest in peace. Amen. [Mary] Amen. Thank you Archbishop. I know Mike and his family will appreciate the prayers of our — [Archbishop] Well and you know, as we go — as this gets broadcast out, those prayers get multiplied. [Mary] Yes. Which is awesome. I know that'll be a great gift to his family. So, Archbishop, tell us how your month has been. Have you been busy? What's it been like? [Archbishop] I have. Of course it's this — what everybody else is experiencing, this peculiar kind of busy-ness because of what we need to do to try and fight against the spread of the COVID infection. But yeah, it's been very busy for my leadership of the arch—, you want me to go down, run down the whole list, Mary? [laughter] [Mary] I sure do! Give us what you’ve got, Archbishop Vigneron! For sure. [Archbishop] Okay. The most significant thing I've been doing as the Chief Pastor of the archdiocese is moving us forward on Families of Parishes. That — and I know we're going to spend some time talking more about that. November is a great month because it's a particular time of prayer for the holy souls. I think sometimes we're forgetful of our obligation that comes from the communion of saints stretching beyond the grave. Entering into the presence of God requires the depth of love that Jesus himself brings to his relationship with the Father. And so many of us, clearly, we don't have that perfect filial love and abandonment. And so God gives us a time to be perfected in order to enjoy fully his presence. And we can help one another with our prayers. So, I certainly — for me, November is a great month to remember my mom, my dad, my grandparents, aunts, uncles, all the people who were so beloved to me in this world and to pray for them. And I have a great confidence that this act of love is reciprocated. That the holy souls continue to pray for us. In November, I had the chance to be at St Patrick's Church in Brighton to concelebrate with Cardinal Burke. He came to Brighton in order to make an announcement about some members of a lay faithful group wanting to build a facility for people who suffer from long-term brain injuries. In honor of Terry Scheibel and the Trinity hospital system — what we know as St. Joseph Mercy, here in our region — are cooperating with that work. [Mary] Wow, so that’s going to be local? [Archbishop] Yeah, I think it's going to be in Howell, if I recall correctly, that's their aim. [Mary] That's beautiful. [Erik] That’s great. [Mary] I didn't know that that was happening. That's really awesome. [Archbishop] Yeah. These are — these lay faithful have taken their cue from the hospital that Padre Pio founded in southern Italy. And they want that same spirit, that same charism to be available to those who are suffering here. [Erik] That's really great. [Archbishop] And of course, we're spending a lot of time, both on the tactical side of schools, trying to do our best to make sure our schools are safe places — I think we're being quite successful in that — but ready for the eventualities that might come. [Mary] Sure. [Archbishop] Flexible about all of that. And also we're spending a lot of time, a lot of effort on the strategic planning for our schools, especially how our initiative to unleash Catholic education can fit into Families of Parishes. [Mary] That's exciting. I'm excited to hear a little bit more about that. My kids go to a Catholic school — normally, not in a pandemic year — and I just, I've been so blessed by Catholic education for our family. So I'm excited to see the next phase of that with Unleash the Gospel and with Families of Parishes. That's neat. [Archbishop] Well, I hope everybody keeps praying, Mary. It's a great challenge, but I think it's very important for evangelization. I’ve had the sadness these months, this month, these weeks of burying three priests — not necessarily who have died from COVID, I think the circumstances vary — but who have, as far as we know, have had COVID. And of course it's Advent, and it's an opportunity for me to ask God to renew my hope. To trust him, that he never lies, he keeps his promises, doesn’t always do it the way we think is the wise path, but he does. And it's better than what we come up with as a scenario. [Erik] Amen. [Mary] I've been echoing that message to so many people, ‘cause you're so good about saying that, just time and time again, that this is God's chosen time and that he keeps his promises, and he desires our happiness. Sometimes I feel like I have to repeat it on a mantra as bad news continues to come in, so I appreciate you keeping that consistent voice for us as a leader. [Archbishop] Thank you. [Erik] It's been very, , it's been very reassuring for my family, especially. Now, one thing I'm curious about — I know there's a lot that you do, and I don't know exactly how you get a day off, but I know you did have at least one day off, and that was Thanksgiving. How did you get a chance to celebrate Thanksgiving? [Archbishop] Well, it's a matter of fact, I tried to give a good example and not travel, so I wound up having a very private Thanksgiving. I talked to a physician I know, talked about what I might've done. He said, “Well, Archbishop, the safer thing is not to be in larger gatherings.” So that's what I did. And I tried to make it a time to — more of a kind of a day of recollection. [Erik] Yeah. What was the food like? [Archbishop] Um, there… I don't remember what I ate. [laugher] [Mary] That's amazing. [Archbishop] We have, , , there's food in the refrigerator and I got what I — I’ll tell you I'm not starving, so. [Erik] You ate what was set before you. [Archbishop] That's right. [Mary] I like that you said that, though, because I think for so many of us, our Thanksgivings were unusual. My family, we stayed in pajamas all day. My mother-in-law dropped off some Thanksgiving food because my husband didn't trust me to make it by myself. And it was good, but like you said, it was just different. It was a bit of a day of a retreat as a family. So I'm trying to really recognize the blessings and the differences this year. So it sounds like you had that kind of day, too. [Archbishop] I did. You know, one of my very close priest friends, Msgr. Halfpenny, his mantra is, “find the grace in the moment.” And we take that attitude because Christ is Lord of history. He is risen. And if there were a moment in which he didn't or couldn't give grace, there'd be at least that piece, that part of history that escaped his Lordship. And there isn't any part that has escaped his Lordship. We say this at Mass always, when the priest proclaims, “It is right and just always and everywhere to give God praise, to give God thanks.” And that's part of what we mean by salvation. Every moment is saved from being outside of thanksgiving. [Mary] That's great. [Archbishop] That's the good news! [Mary] Right? That is the good news. And we have more good news up the pipeline. I love how much the archdiocese is continuing to look and vision to Unleash the Gospel. This month we're going to revisit the topic that we discussed in the June episode, which is Families of Parishes. You referenced it, it's a huge undertaking, but a lot has happened since we last spoke. To refresh our memories, you announced back at Pentecost that over the next few years, all parishes in the Archdiocese of Detroit will join other parishes to form families of parishes. Can you remind us, just briefly, what families of parishes are and why we are creating them? [Archbishop] Let's start with the “why” first, Mary. We're doing it in order to make optimal use of the resources of time, talent and treasure that we have in order to be a Church on mission, an evangelizing Church.We are having a decrease in our resources. Perhaps one of the most significant is we're having — expecting, and we're seeing, and expect in the next 10 years, continued decrease in the number of priests who are available to lead the parish communities. And the parishes are the on-the-ground place for evangelization. We can do it at the level above parishes, certainly, but we can't do it without the parishes. So it's very important to get this — to try and do this right. What are the families? They’re groupings of parishes that share resources, particularly the resource of the priests who are assigned to the family. There are two ways to set up a family. One is to have one pastor for the several families that make up a parish and have the other priests who serve that family be his parochial vicars. The third way — the second way, and the way I think most of the families will begin, has a Latin name: In solidum. This is a new kind of canonical institute after the Second Vatican Council, where a group of parishes are placed together in a family and, most of the priests who serve that set of parishes are all pastors, but they're pastors of all the parishes in the family, and one of them is their leader. And we have the very unromantic title of “Moderator”. [Mary] I was going to ask, yeah. [laughs] [Archbishop] But there is a leader, but he leads this team of pastors. As well, if — depending on the nature of the family, there can be parochial vicars who are associates, assistants to all the pastors in the parish. We received, oh, I did a few months ago, anyway, what I consider, from our Holy Father, the Pope, through his close coworker on the life of parish priests, the Prefect of the Congregation for Clergy, a directive endorsing this structure of Families of Parishes and giving us guidance about how to set them up in a way that is most effective and is focused on evangelization. I don't know if you have any questions, you’ve let me run on pretty long here. [Mary] No, that’s great. [Archbishop] You put your quarter in, you get… [laughter] [Mary] Well, that's what we like, Archbishop Vigneron. That's what we like. So, when you say that you received something from the Congregation, specifically for Detroit in the process of what we’re doing? [Archbishop] No, no, this was for the whole Catholic Church throughout the world. [Mary] Okay. And then is — are there other places that are doing this? Have we looked at other models? Is that kind of, what gave us the idea, or was it just a prompting? [Archbishop] Yes, other places are doing it. Probably the closest parallel is across the river. Windsor-London is the sea city, the Diocese of London, and they've been on this path for several years now. They're also doing something very much like this in Chicago and — as well as in Pittsburgh. And we've learned and been in conversation with them, learning some best practices and also getting some advice about things to be attentive to, things to avoid. [Erik] Yeah. So on December 9th, the archdiocese is going to be publishing the Families of Parish groupings, so the list that would actually unite and form families. How was this list developed? [Archbishop] Well, from the ground up, really. Under the leadership of the regional bishop, the moderator for each region, with the assistance of the vicars, the parish priests in the vicariate deliberated on what makes sense as a family, with the criterion: what's going to help us be a Church on mission. How can — what's the right kind of family to put together so that we can be an evang— so that the parishes in the family can be an evang- be evangelizing communities. The parish priests, we left it up to them to do the kind of lay leadership consultation that they judged appropriate. I think that varied from vicariate to vicariate, but it was very much grassroots. And so I have confidence that what the priests have presented comes with the light, the best light they have, and I believe they know, by and large, what's the right way forward. I've seen the proposal, and I find the proposals very wise. [Erik] That's great. Just so our listeners understand, what kind of aspects of parish life do you think they took into account when they were discerning these groupings? [Archbishop] Well, sometimes it involved the charisms of, generally — certainly this was important — what's the charism of, or what are the charisms that are already vital in each parish? How can they be strengthened, complemented by the other possible family members? Sometimes it was about a sufficient similarity of socioeconomic characteristics that make for easier cooperation. In some cases, a family thought it was better to stretch themselves and be a mix of more working-class and then middle-class parishes. I've seen it go both ways. What else? In parishes that are typically entrusted to priests of religious orders and congregations, it involved how best to incorporate those gifts into a family. And sometimes it was about ethnic identity. What can sustain that, where can that be complemented? Those were the sorts of issues that came up. [Mary] Are you anticipating that most parishes are going to be the — I'm sorry, most families of parishes are going to be the same size? Are there going to be some that will be bigger, some that will be smaller depending on what was decided? [Archbishop] It's a wide range. I think the largest is six families — six parishes in the family, and the smallest are three. One of the things I asked for is that it at least be three. And this is the time for me to say, Erik and Mary, this is not a stalking horse for a way to do closures. We're going to try to do our best to preserve each family, each parish in the family. We'll see how that goes, but we don't have — I don't have a plan — and one of the points was, a family of two is very much like, pardon me, like clustering. And this is a different strategy from clustering. [Erik] That's very reassuring. I know a lot of people would like to hear that. [Mary] So when you- as this process has been going on, one of the questions that I've thought about— I'm so excited about it, I want to say that first. I just think this is an obvious outpouring of the Spirit as a fruit of the Synod, it's just very, very clear to me. But one thing that people are wondering about, is what about their clergy? So many people have pastors that they love right now and are wondering, “Do I get to- is my pastor going to stay with me? Are they going to have to serve in other churches?” What are, what are we thinking we're going to do with the clergy? Or do we not know yet? [Archbishop] Well, we know some things and others, we don't know. Part of the decision I have to make is which — there are two waves. This is going to go forward in a first group, beginning in July, 1 2021, and the second group July 1, 2022. And there's about 25 families in each group. What we'll have to do is start by looking at the families that — find in the first wave who's going to be the leader. If it’s going to be the Model One of one pastor with several parishes, or is it going to be a Moderator with a team of pastors? And then once those are established, we'll look at what team is going to make up the team of priests in the parish. So I would expect that there might be the need for some movement, but I have no idea to what degree that will occur. Well, I shouldn't say I have no idea. I'm quite confident. This is not going to be a wholesale upheaval of the parochial clergy. [Erik] That's great. [Archbishop] And once the family is established, it will be up to the team of priests and the leadership team in the parish, after proper consultation, to decide how the duties are apportioned among the team of priests in the family. [Erik] Yeah. So what does that mean for parish staffs? What's that transition going to look like? ‘Cause you have multiple parishes coming together as one family now, learning how to work with one another. What could that look like for the parish staff and how might it affect them? [Archbishop] Erik, we worked very hard to put together a kind of playbook to help the moderator or the single pastor in the one-pastor model think about leading the staff into that sort of new reality. I can just say at a high level, it's going to involve them thinking about how best to cooperate and it might mean some redistributing of responsibilities within the family. A simple one I would expect is that those who are catechetical leaders in the parishes in one family will be blessed to think of themselves as part of a larger team. And it may mean that within that larger team of catechists, catechetical leaders that serve the one family, duties are redistributed and people can more clearly specialize in what their charisms lead them to do. [Archbishop] But that will be up to the moderator, the single pastor, and the other members of the leadership team to resolve. So it doesn't — there's no one model for every family. One of the most important things is, every family will have a new officer called the Mission Direct- excuse me, the Mission Support Director. And this will be in some way like a Chief Financial Officer for the family and all the parishes in the family, and that person should be able to assist everybody in finding new ways of cooperation. I interrupted you though. [Erik] No, that's excellent. I really appreciate that it's not a cookie-cutter approach. I think it's reassuring for a lot of Lay Ecclesial Ministers to hear that. And then that key word there, which a lot of Lay Ecclesial Ministers are really used to — and for our listeners, a Lay Ecclesial Minister is just somebody who professionally works in the Church — the charism. You know, just really highlighting what are the gifts and the talents, and allowing for those who have blessings in administration to take that on, and those who have blessings and other areas of ministries to really forge together and help out and assist their fellow parishes. I think that's excellent. [Erik] And we do have this- this isn’t a novelty in our diocese — some vicariates, for example, and both of you as Lay Ecclesial Ministers would know this better than I — some of the vicariates have one common youth ministry. If I recall correctly, that's one of the most common shared ministries that I'm aware of. [Mary] Yeah, I think when we can bring our talents together — and I think that's why I'm so energized by this idea, I see it as such an opportunity to have people working together. My dad is a deacon, and before your pastoral letter came out, which we're going to — or your pastoral note came out, we'll talk about that in a second — he gave a homily on it and he said, it's, he was referencing Thanksgiving meal. And he said, you know, we have the kid that makes the mashed potatoes really good, and they bring the mashed potatoes to the table. And there's someone that always does the best dessert, and they bring that to the table. And he said, sure, sometimes there's a fight over Thanksgiving, you know, meals. Sometimes the uncle gets a little crazy and you have to calm him down. He said, but there's a beauty in the family being together with their gifts and what they bring to the table. And I see that, I really see that vision as we talk about families of parishes. Like, I think it's going to be good, Archbishop Vigneron. [Archbishop] Well, it's going to — it's a challenge because we're doing things in a new way, but Mary, you, you talked about this being in some sense, and I think it is, clearly, a fruit of the Synod, which called us to look at all the structures we use to fulfill our mission and to realign them with the mission. And in the end, there might be some of the same structures, but we will have thought about them in a new way and reappropriated them with a consciousness of how they fill the mission, so that we're not to engage simply in keeping the structures alive for their own sake. [Mary] Right. And also trying to really be attentive, I think, to what the Spirit is doing. And I think, when I think about your leadership, I see how clearly the Holy Spirit has moved through it. To help the faithful kind of prepare for this, you put out this document that I had the opportunity to really sit with and read this week, and I'm so grateful that I had time to almost prayerfully meditate on it, because it did seem like a little bit of a meditation, a document that you wrote, a pastoral note called Led by the Spirit on Mission. And in this note, you started by reflecting on the Great Commission, when Jesus Christ commanded his disciples to “go therefore and make disciples of all nations.” How do you see this movement, this Families of Parishes relating to that as our journey in the Archdiocese of Detroit. [Archbishop] Well, it's certainly subordinated there to that Great Commission. And there's no doubt that some of what has led us to rethink parish structures are very practical, human realities: resources, where we are today. But I see this as God's providential way of asking us to rethink all of this in terms of mission and to measure everything by mission. And sometimes without a challenge, we're not ready to make those sacrifices, but — because it's not easy to die to yourself, to give up the familiar. But we can do that, especially with a motivation of confidence that the new thing that's coming to birth will help us with fulfilling the Great Commission. [Mary] Well, and I like, too, that in the document that you put out, in the pastoral note, you mentioned some of the challenges, because I think sometimes it's really important to name the tensions that we might go through as we do something a little bit revolutionary. Right? [Archbishop] Right. You know, I like your father's homily about the dinner. Suppose one of the young adults in the family marries somebody who's really, really good at pastry and there's an opportunity. So the person who has been doing the pumpkin pies is going to have to make room for that new gift. [Erik] True story. [Archbishop] It's not easy. [laughter] [Mary] That's actually so spot on, because that's when — and I think that is a challenge. I think that, especially for those that work in the Church and love the Church and love ministry, we take ownership over what we've done and we take pride in it. And so, the tension of inviting someone else to bring their pastries can make us a little nervous. [Erik] No, absolutely. I definitely love the beauty of the way that we're going forward as a family, though, because there is something about being able to go back to your own home. And so this is a big difference than what we've experienced in the past. I know my family — my extended family is from Saginaw, and I remember a Hispanic parish and a Polish parish had to merge and come together. And their biggest problem was this festival. It was going to be a Polish festival, or was it going to be a Mexican festival? And they decided to merge it together. What would have helped them was to have their own homes to be able to go back to. And I do love this idea within the family of parishes. And I, one of the key messages you have in your note that really hits home for me is this radical docility to the Holy Spirit. That really resonates for me. I really appreciate that phrase. But, Archbishop, what key message do you hope the readers of this note will take away from it? [Archbishop] Courage. I'd go back to what was in my heart when I started to think about all of this upon my return to the archdiocese, and that's John Paul II’s writings about the new millennium, and launch out into the deep. That's what I hope is the key message, that we need to be courageous about this, and it's not foolish to be courageous, we're not foolhardy, but we are trusting in the promises of Jesus Christ. I was meditating on the text appointed for one of the Advent weekdays where Jesus says we have to build our house on the rock of his Word. I think sometimes other rocks look more secure, and they're really sand. It takes the courage born of faith to build on the rock of his Word, that his promise is sure. And, and even if we make mistakes the way, by a natural measure, you know, missteps — and we will — if we make them while we're docile to the Spirit and by the best light we have, he can bring good fruit out of them. [Mary] Yeah, I think that's one of the reasons I do find this whole process to be really hopeful, because I think it's been clear to me, just being in the Church in the Archdiocese of Detroit, that something does need to shift and you highlighted some of that, even with the priest shortage. And, and it's just tough. It's tough right now. And the pandemic kind of ushering this along, it's so helpful to me to see us doing something that is a bold step in faith. And I feel like the Synod was a bold step in faith, I feel like the document Unleash the Gospel was a bold step in faith, and again, I just see this as a fruit of that, right? [Archbishop] Yeah. [Erik] Oh, absolutely. [Archbishop] Go ahead, Mike. Oh, Mike, I’m sorry. Erik. Go ahead, Erik. [laughter] [Erik] No worries! No, absolutely. I'm with Mary on that. I really love this idea that, you know, it's not, it's not like “teams” of parishes coming together. It's “families” of parishes. And one thing that was drilled into me, I don't know if other people have this experience, but, “You don't have to like your family, but you do have to love them,” was a phrase that was in my house ‘cause I'm one of six kids, and it was a reality that we came to really appreciate one another and love each other, and so that's why the pastry ended up working out, because in the end we realized, no we're family, we're going to love on each other, and we're going to figure this out because we're, we have, you know, the rest of our lives going forward together. And so I take great hope. I love this idea and the direction that we're going, [Archbishop] This is in view of doing, being more — better instruments of the Holy Spirit in evangelization. But I think even doing it is a witness to the Good News. Our doing it with confidence, with trust in the Lord is a proclamation of his victory, of his triumph, of his Lordship. And I think for those who have eyes to see, they'll see that there's something different about the way we go about our lives and what we're engaged in. [Mary] And one last question that I wanted to ask you, Archbishop. So, we have been challenged by you, and by the Holy Spirit, obviously, to be a band of joyful missionary disciples. How do you see families of parishes — so us coming together as parishes — to be part of the work of going out and sharing the Good News? [Archbishop] Well, one of the things — this is where we've got a very practical strategy for this. Once the parish gets itself moving forward, we're going to, we're asking each — I'm having each parish engage in a strategic missionary plan. You recall, we had to stop that once COVID began. We're going to pick up that planning, but now it will be in the family and fulfilling or filling out that plan will very much involve, how is the family going to be a community, a team of missionary bands? And it will be very much — we already have given, we have prepared for each family statistics, data about who's in the territory that is likely not to be in touch with the Church, might be what we find about people who are Catholic, but aren't coming to Mass, but also people who are unchurched in that territory. And so, the family being not just a home for those who are already evangelized, but what's the mission of the family that hasn't been able to be met until this time? And now with this new instrument, this new approach, we can reach out to those who need — who Jesus wants to share the Good News with. [Mary] Man, that is just, it's so exciting to me. I just, I think this is — I know it keeps saying it, but I think this is just such a unique way to really speak to the world. And I think that our world needs voices of hope and of goodness and God's love, right? And so thinking about creative ways to do that at a central level, sometimes I think we don't always do that. And so I just take so much pride that I belong to this archdiocese and that we're going to embark on this together. I think it's going to be good. I do. [Erik] I agree. I agree. [Mary] Archbishop Vigneron, is there anything else you want to share about Families of Parishes before we move on to the next segment? [Archbishop] No, I appreciate the opportunity to have the conversation with you. And I think — I guess the last thing is I'd invite everybody who's listening to join me in the prayer that I make, which is to put all of this in the hands of the Holy Mother of God, Our Lady of the Cenacle, who prayed so ardently with the 12 apostles between the Ascen- — well, I guess there were 12 by that time, Mathias won the lottery… [laughter] [Archbishop] ...Twelve In the upper room and getting them ready for Pentecost, so that in some sense, everyday in the life of a family will be Pentecost morning. And Our Lady is with us in the support of her prayers. Speaker 3: (36:56) [Mary] Very cool. Well, thank you for sharing about Families of Parishes. So each month we ask people in the Archdiocese of Detroit to submit their questions to eyesonjesuspodcast@aod.org. We ask if you're listening and you want to submit a question, you can go ahead and do that by emailing eyesonjesuspodcast@aod.org with your name and your parish, and of course your question. So our first question today comes from Vickie, from Corpus Christi in Detroit. Vickie says, “What is one of your favorite foods to eat as a treat as we come off of Thanksgiving and into Christmas? What's something that you like to kind of indulge on when you have time?” [Archbishop] Oh, without doubt, chocolate chip cookies. They’re my favorite. [Erik] That’s a great go-to. [Mary] Aw, there's so good. A good chocolate chip cookie. My husband's a connoisseur of chocolate, chocolate chip cookies. So do you have a favorite? [Archbishop] I presume he likes, wants them to be sure to have a little extra butter in them, that makes them pretty moist. [laughter] [Mary] Exactly. So good. That's awesome. [Archbishop] The other thing I like, just if I've got a little bit of a hunger is a handful of peanuts, but I like them unsalted and dry-roasted. [Erik] Oh, wow. [Mary] Oh, unsalted! Bold choice, Archbishop Vigneron. Unsalted. [Erik] Now, the kind that you actually break apart? Like, that come in the shell? [Archbishop] No, you can buy them. You’ve got to watch, most everybody wants to sell them with some salt, but you can find them unsalted. [Mary] I know what you're getting for Christmas. [laughter] Archbishop Vigneron’s going to have cases in the Cathedral of unsalted peanuts. That's great. Thanks for sharing that. [Erik] Excellent. Our next question comes from Katie, St. Genevieve-St. Maurice in Livonia. “Archbishop, what is your go-to prayer?” [Archbishop] I have a couple that come very quickly to mind when I feel the need to pass from a challenge to a prayer. One is the Jesus prayer, “Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the living God, have mercy on me, a sinner.” And the other is the Memorare, which is a prayer I love very, very much. “Remember O most gracious, Virgin Mary…” And some of you listeners perhaps will remember that, especially at the beginning of the pandemic, I asked people to recite the Memorare as a way to be sure to place our diocese, our community under the protection of Our Lady Help of Christians. [Erik] So, you gave me a really good practice with my son, ‘cause I wash his hands in the bathroom, and I thought you asked us to do it while washing our hands, so that's what we've been doing and it’s the right amount of time. [Mary] Oh my gosh, that’s really - [laughter] [Erik] So now whenever I wash my hands, I say a Memorare! [Mary] Oh, that's a great habit for little Eli to have, right? [Erik] It is, it is. [Mary] That's fantastic. [Archbishop] Does he know it by heart yet? [Erik] I think he only follows with me. It's kind of like the way I grew up knowing the Our Father, if somebody didn't say it next to me, I couldn't say it. So when I ask him to say it, he's like, “I don't know it,” but when I start, he can say it along. [Archbishop] That's great. [Mary] The Jesus Prayer has been — it's it's funny, ‘cause you mentioned that the Memorare, using during the pandemic — when I have fear because of everything going on in our world, I've used the Jesus prayer a lot to remind me of who God is and who I am. So, and I do deep breaths with it and really I'm able to calm myself, and I'm surprised how present the Holy Spirit is when I really focus on that prayer. And I don't know if a lot of people know it or use it as much as we can. So it's a good reminder. The last question that we have for you today comes from Frank, at St. Michael, the Archangel in Livonia, Frank asks, “When today's world starts to get the best of you and you think that maybe no one is watching over you, how do you get your faith back?” [Archbishop] I look, or remember the image of the Sacred Heart of Jesus. And first of all, I offer him whatever those dark and challenging feelings are, because I know he wants to have them. That's part of what a friend is, and a greater love than this no one has than to lay down his life for his friends. And then I ask for the dispositions of his heart, which are dispositions of abandonment to the Father. So, it's focusing on the sacred heart of Jesus that sustains me when in a dark time, in a difficult time. I don't know if — is that clear? I don't know if I've explained that sufficiently. [Mary] No, I think that's helpful, to have the visual of the Sacred Heart. I think it's also important just to, you know, acknowledge that sometimes we all struggle, right? With our faith, and sometimes we can feel far away or that God's love is far away, right? [Archbishop] Yes. And as a matter of fact, God lets that happen for his glory and our good. Because every time it does happen, we are better — we’re gold that's being fire-tried, as Saint Peter says. Our whole — our faith, which is more precious than fire-tried gold. Being in a time of trial is not — doesn't mean that we have been abandoned by God. In fact, it's a way for God to give us the grace of finding, of following him to a new level of being a son or daughter, [Mary] What a good way to look at that. [Erik] Amen. [Mary] Well, Archbishop, we are coming to a close. So we wanted to ask you, is there anything that we can keep you in our prayers for? So is there anything that you'd like us to pray for you this month with? [Archbishop] Well, yes. Please, if people would pray to the Good sShepherd for me, that I have the grace of being a shepherd after his own heart as I lead our diocese onto this new path of Families of Parishes. [Mary] Absolutely, we will keep that in our prayers. [Erik] Beautifully said. We definitely will. Thank you so much for having me as a co-host. I've really appreciated it — it was a pleasure. [Mary] It was good having you here, Erik. It was good having you. [Archbishop] Mary, do you think Mike needs to worry about his job? [laughter] [Mary] I'm just saying, he didn't do too bad! The three of us, Archbishop Vigneron, are really good friends in real life, so it's, it's cool to have him here. So I'm glad that we were able to do this. Would you mind closing this out with the blessing, Archbishop? [Archbishop] I would be honored to. In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. [Erik] Amen. [Mary] Amen. [Archbishop] Let's conclude by giving God the glory. Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, as it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen. And may the blessing of Almighty God the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit come down upon you and those you love and remain with you forever. [Mary] Amen. [Erik] Amen. Thank you so much, Archbishop. [Mary] Thanks, Archbishop. [Archbishop] You're welcome. [music] [Mary] Stay tuned for the next episode of Eyes on Jesus, a new episode every month. And if you enjoyed listening, you might also like Detroit Stories, a new podcast from the Archdiocese of Detroit. Find it on your favorite podcast app.