Archbishop Vigneron: I'm Archbishop Allen Vigneron of the archdiocese of Detroit. And this is the eyes on Jesus podcast. Mike: Hello, and welcome to the eyes on Jesus podcast with Archbishop Allen Vigneron I'm your host, Mike Chamberlain Mary: And I'm your host Mary Wilkerson. Mike: We are excited to release new episodes once a month. Please make sure to subscribe and review wherever it is that you listen to podcasts. Archbishop welcome, and thank you so much for joining us. Archbishop Vigneron: So glad to be with you, both Mike Mary. Good to hear, good to be on the line. Mike: Yeah. Archbishop, how have you been, how was your last month, I know, uh, you know, Thanksgiving, so many different things I'm sure have happened for you. I know within this last month you had the, uh, US bishops meeting. How, how have things been for you personally? Archbishop Vigneron: Very well. Thanks. Uh, you mentioned Thanksgiving. It was so great to be able to, uh, be with some of my family on Thanksgiving day. I give God praise for that, uh, we're not out of the woods, but, uh, things are getting, better for us, I think by and large. And I'm very grateful for that. Mike: That's great. I know within this last, uh, time since we've recorded, unfortunately, we also had in our own neighborhood here in our own archdiocese that, uh, horrific shooting at Oxford high school. Of course. And I, um, you know, I wanted to ask you Archbishop, you know, is there anything specific that, from your offices or you yourself have been, uh, involved in any way with that? You know, obviously I know I'm sure you're praying, for the families in that situation, that community, but, you know, beyond that, I didn't know if there was anything you'd like to say about that. Archbishop Vigneron: Well, certainly, my own prayers, uh, been a daily, it's been a theme of my daily prayer praying for those who were, who lost their lives for the wounded and, uh, mindful of the deep, the other wounds, the, spiritual, psychological wounds of so many, asking the Lord for healing, especially asking Our Lady's, protection for all of those involved. And it's certainly become a wider matter. We see how this, uh, the threat of violence in our midst, is oppressive to, to so many of us. And I pray for our own confidence, in the Providence of God. Mary: I appreciated your words when you responded to it. And, and, um, the Detroit Catholic kind of was able to open up, um, some different ideas of healing in it, because it is such a jolting thing that's happening in our society, and it can be, easy to get overwhelmed by the evil of it all, you know? And so, hearing words of comfort and words of, um, I don't know, truth when it comes to God's love and God's goodness, even in hard things was really important. Archbishop Vigneron: Yes, very, very important. And, a particular theme of my prayer. And I know of all the, the priests and pastoral leaders involved is to try to be supportive of those, who, are, have to be present or who are called to be present to, uh, to the wounded and the grieving. Mary: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. We'll continue to keep that in our prayers. I, like, you, it's been a, it's been a daily prayer, um, for God's goodness and comfort to be present in that situation. So we'll continue, Archbishop Vigneron: Especially the message of this time of year is that God is with us. He's never gonna go away. His, uh, coming in the flesh is a change in his , being with us and he'll never strip himself of, that, presence to us. Mary: I always think of that, uh, line from the first chapter in John, the light shines in the darkness and the darkness has not overcome. It, um, provides a tremendous amount of comfort for me when I can't make sense of things in the world, you know? That there is this reality of the incarnation in the, the of God in the midst of seemingly overwhelming darkness. So Archbishop Vigneron: If he can bring goodness out of, uh, the plot to kill life himself, he can bring good out of, uh, all other things. That's part of the victory of his resurrection. Mary: Yes, we will continue to keep that in our prayers. This month during the podcast, we have the opportunity to look at the advent and Christmas season through the lens of radical hospitality. This is a concept that you introduced in your pastoral letter, Unleash the Gospel, that we reference often here on the podcast, and it's factored into a lot missionary efforts in recent years. I'm sure from you, and also from people working in parishes. To begin with, I thought we'd talk about what radical hospitality is or what is, uh, named in Unleash the Gospel, unusually gracious hospitality. What does that mean to you? And, where did you get that idea from the unusually gracious hospitality? Archbishop Vigneron: Um, where did the idea come from? Um, I think very much from the Synod, commission and from, uh, the parishioners, who came to our sessions. It, it wasn't my genius that underscored the reality, the need for hospitality to be part of our effort at evangelization. And, uh, I think the terms, uh, about, being unusually gracious or radical, sort of like saying hospitality to the 10th power to remind us that it's not, uh, we have to be very attentive to it and, be invested in being hospitable to others. Go beyond the, the usual courtesies, I think is, one way I interpret that. Mary: Yeah, I like that to the 10th degree, I'm gonna keep that in mind as I challenge myself to be a more radically hospitable person and family, Mike: Yeah. I mean, even, I think our secular culture celebrates an idea of, of hospitality, obviously, you know what I mean? But I, like what you're saying as well, like, you know, if, if regular culture celebrates it, ours needs to look different and be different as a Christian in, in its concept, you know? And, um, you know, so that draws us to kind of think from like the biblical basis of it. And, and where would you say that comes from Archbishop from a kind of a Christian biblical mindset of radical hospitality? Is there something specific that comes to your mind, uh, when reflecting with that? Archbishop Vigneron: Well, uh, what our Lord says about what you did to the least of my brethren, you did, to me, uh, that's very much a part of, what the Lord expects of us. I was thinking that we don't necessarily think of, uh, the good Samaritan as exercising, radical hospitality, but he'd found a home for the wounded. He, went way out of his way. And, uh, one of the basis bases for, uh, our hospitality is the experience of the savior himself. You know, our Lord says what you did to the least you did to me. Well, it happened to him that he was in great need of hospitality. We remember that, uh, very much this time of year, that there was no place for him in the inn. There wasn't hospitality for the holy family. And, uh, Mary, you talked about St. Archbishop Vigneron: John's gospel, the prologue. He came to his own and his own people didn't receive him. There was a lack of hospitality to the Messiah himself. So, um, Christ has the experience of not receiving hospitality and he calls on us to give him the experience of hospitality in his members, in those who are forgotten and on the margins. There's a lot of, uh, mention of hospitality in the Old Testament and our Lord's themes, his preaching are anticipated. The, uh, the children of Israel were called upon in the law to be hospitable to the stranger. They are reminded that they were once strangers in a strange land, and they need to be then particularly, uh, attentive to the needs of, strangers in their midst. And Abraham himself is praised in, the book of Genesis for being hospitable to strangers. And in the New Testament says that, it comments on what Abraham did with his hospitality, that he entertained angels unaware. Mary: I love that, uh, that verse, you know, in Unleash the Gospel. You, um, you talk about unusually gracious hospitality as being part of a strikingly countercultural way of living. Can you talk about that a little bit more in what ways, um, that we're called to live hospitality in a countercultural way? Archbishop Vigneron: I think, uh, I mean the, example we use a lot of times to get people to think about hospitality is, uh, giving up one's favorite seat. One's favorite pew in church for somebody who is not usually there, you know, that's my place. Yeah. Uh, I think, that's a small example, kind of a microcosm of what I've got in mind here. That we are very much, a culture focused on my own rights, my own place, uh, my autonomy, my, uh, and, can be very difficult to extend ourselves beyond, beyond what's comfortable. There, there are a lot of really remarkable ways that people do go outside of themselves, but at the same time, we live in a culture that is, we're tempted quite, uh, often to say, but not there, you know, that that's more than. Giving up that parking spot is more than I can tolerate whatever. And so, uh, I think it means to let myself, uh, not, I mean, we all need boundaries. I'm not, uh, trying to promulgate some sort of, uh, irrational, boundarylessness. But we do need to let ourselves be challenged and, uh, in a way that our cultural bias, can find difficult. Mary: It's, that's such a good, um, point I'm, I'm kinda still stuck on the, you know, how we feel about our pew being taken. Um, because I think it's a good, it's a, a little bit of a good self examination, you know, on some of the, um, holidays, when our churches might be a little more packed, like, what is our response to that? I've, I've heard so many people say, you know, these people that only come on Christmas are taking my spot, you know, and the it's, it's an interesting place to kind of examine your own heart, because we might be hospitable in some of the traditional senses, but where does God call us to be, um, more hospitable, uh, in places that might be blind spots to us. Archbishop Vigneron: Yeah. And it's not simply it, I mean, hospitality is a, locus it's, it's a lens, but what we're really talking about is having something that's really great and sharing it. And, uh, we can be quite comfortable in sharing because the goodness of God that we share with other people is, uh, made all of the more, our own, uh, when we give it away. It's one of those, uh, paradoxes of spiritual goods. So, you know, let's beat our little example of the pew to death here. When I share, my place in church, it's not just my place I'm sharing. I'm, being an instrument to share the goodness of Christ. And, to be a doorway for that goodness, to be open to somebody else. That's, that's the point really? Uh, the, grace of the new covenant, the grace of Jesus is a grace that is, uh, advanced by being shared heart to heart, person to person. Archbishop Vigneron: And hospitality is one of the, uh, one of the ways that we, we share Christ with other people. And part of, uh, this missionary attitude we all need to have is that this is one of my, this is my basic principle responsibility to other people is to share, Christ with them. Now yeah. I need to do business. I need to make sure I get in the right line at, uh, checkout and, uh, pay my bill. I mean, all of that, but underneath everything I do and, and engage in is this, uh, responsibility, gift I have of sharing Christ with others. Now that doesn't always translate into, uh, something very explicit, but I need to, I'm called every day to share Christ with others in some way, even if it's as simple as, uh,, have a blessed day, that, that sort of thing. Archbishop Vigneron: I don't know, Mary, maybe this came from you as a suggestion for my attention, but talk about prayer. I think, uh, inviting, uh, offering to pray for people is a kind of hospitality and, uh, another way to that's a welcoming of the other person as, somebody that's loved by Jesus. And, uh, something I've seen that works very effectively is, uh, if, somebody says, uh, yeah, I'd be happy to have you pray for me, is then to go the next step and say, well, let's pray. Would it be okay to pray together right now? That's a kind of hospitality in a very broad sense I admit it's, we're not back to our sharing the pew kind of hospitality. But it is kind of welcoming, you know, it's welcoming somebody else into my prayer. I think that that, that can be very effective. And if it's done, if it's done with respect, I think, uh, almost always people, uh, even if people aren't comfortable and say, well, I prefer not. Well, then we move on. That's part of being a gracious host. Mary: It takes a level of vulnerability as well to say to somebody, you know, can we pray right now? And I think, um, offering God those moments of vulnerable hearts where we're reaching out and again with respect, you know, but there's, there's such potential there, um, to be welcoming in our spiritual lives as well. Archbishop Vigneron: Because I mean again, and back to our little, uh, microcosm, welcoming, welcoming people into my pew. The really the issue is am I welcoming them into my life? Mike: Well, and I love this is, this is all in my mind. As I'm hearing all this, it's just a reflection on one lens or aspect of, love as, you know, if what love is willing, the good of the other. And I really care for you and love you and want what's best for you. I'm gonna make room for you in this pew, or I'm gonna give you my pew altogether, because, you know, I just want you to be able to have a seat and I'll stand in the back if necessary or whatever. It's really, again, it's, it's being who God is, which is love to the other, by putting them first and putting yourself second, you know, and, and there's just something really beautiful about that aspect of hospitality, you know, so I know even Pope Francis, he, you know, he's quoted as saying I prefer church, which is bruised, hurting and dirty because it's been out on the streets rather than in the church. Um, which is, I'm sorry, rather than a church that's unhealthy and being confined and clinging into its own security and stuff. So I, you know, he often talks, Pope Francis about welcoming, uh, those on the peripheries. I mean, do you see this idea relating in that quote kind of relating to this same thing, Archbishop? Archbishop Vigneron: I do very much see them relating. Uh, there are lots of ways to be on the periphery. And rightly we, we think about those who are materially disadvantaged or those who are, oppressed in the civil order, but there are lots of ways for somebody to be an outsider. I think of, Dickens' Christmas Carol, uh, Ebenezer Scrooge was on the periphery and, uh, his conversion led him to, uh, to, be able to accept the hospitality of his nephew. There are there's some always, there are always people around us who are on the periphery not to lose sight of the fact that the Holy Father has particular care and particular, uh, prophetic role to call us, to be, uh, hospitable, uh, to be open to those who are materially disadvantaged. Mary: It's a, cool thing to kind of imagine it beyond maybe what our perspective is, uh, perspective are on the peripheries to really think about what that means. And I love that you brought up Ebenezer Scrooge. I think about, um, in my own family life, the past, I don't know, a year or two, it's really been on my husband and I's heart to, consider what hospitality looks like as a family. And I had, um, we had somebody over for dinner maybe two months ago, and he's married now. And he has a family and has children. And he was sharing around our dinner table that when he was a single man, he got married later in life. He said, it, meant so much to me when families would invite me over for dinner and as a Catholic single man that I would be welcomed into people's homes, because there was quite a level of loneliness that people didn't realize I was experiencing. And I think in today's society, isolation or loneliness is such a difficult cross to bear. And we don't sometimes as families or individuals think about creative ways to be hospitable in our own homes. I was wondering if you had any, any insight on that? What, what are some principles that maybe we can follow? Um, not necessarily just as parishes, but as individuals and as families. How can we frame our minds to align ourselves to this unusually gracious hospitality? Archbishop Vigneron: Well, before I answer that, I'm gonna ask you a question, Mary Um, what I read is that, uh, the, uh, ubiquitous use of social media tends to make us isolated. So I'm wondering if, uh, hospitality for those who are on the periphery and that kind of, uh, from that sort of result, isn't all the more needed today. Do you think that Mike, Mary, what do you think? Mary: I think, I think that's spot on, I don't know what you would say, Mike, but I, I just recently shared that, especially, maybe, and this could be my bias, but, um, young adults and, and teenagers are feeling such a profound sense of isolation. And, and I think some of that is due to the fact that we operate kind of in this digital world. And of course the pandemic didn't help it because that was how we were communicating, but there's an element right of human contact that's missed through that, right. Mike: Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, I think it's funny because social media, there is a community component or piece to it. And I think in really small circles, I, I do believe it's possible through the medium of social media to actually form some positive, good community. But I think it's not the norm. I think it's, it's kind of the norm is more so to have kind of what would be kind of like a pseudo or kind of false or fake community, which still leaves you in a, in a feeling of isolation and feeling alone, you know what I mean?, So Archbishop Vigneron: Yeah. Well it's about acceptance, isn't it? That I, I, um, I'm able here to be, authentically myself and, I'm accepted, uh, by the, by these other folks or by this other person I'm welcome for myself, Mike: You know, and I think that's maybe the piece that's missing in, in some ways, the reason why it's so difficult in social media is because in order to be truly accepted, you have to be truly vulnerable first. Cuz if you're, if you're fake and then people accept your fakeness, you know, interiorly that they're not really fully accepting you, they're accepting your mask that you've put on, but when you're truly vulnerable, honestly vulnerable and people still accept you and love you. Well then that's, that's that acceptance you're speaking of, I think Archbishop and I think social media, unfortunately, people aren't typically fully themselves or are fully vulnerable. They kind of put on more of a facade, uh, for the most part, obviously I think it's possible that good things can happen too, but yeah, I don't know. That's just my 2 cents on it, but Archbishop Vigneron: Thanks Mary. Back to you. I stone walled your question. So put it again please. Mary: No I liked that. Um, you were, I was asking you how families and I'm actually gonna make it a tougher question. If you don't mind how families and individuals can try to be more radically hospitable, any tips that you might have, but then also, and this makes it a little more challenging, cuz it's something I'm really kind of trying to tease through as well. In this reality of the pandemic where people don't feel comfortable getting together in large groups of people. How can we extend that radical hospitality when it seems like, you know, some of our hands might be tied in terms of how we, we, where we feel safe and things like that. How do we, how do we balance the two? Archbishop Vigneron: Well, uh, how to balance? I, I think again, uh, trust in the Holy Ppirit, there's going to be opportunities every day, to, welcome the stranger, to welcome someone to extend myself to another person and uh, to watch for that to happen. And you're right. Uh, in the current situation, there are avenues that are closed off to us. But there are other avenues that are open and, to, and to be flexible and to make the, the most out of, uh, even the little opportunities. Um, I think here of the parable of the mustard seed, the kingdom of heaven is like, the mustard seed, the smallest of all seeds. And yet when it's planted it can grow into this, bush that even the birds can live in. So it, it could be something very, very simple, uh, and not to discount the, the little opportunities because they're little. Mary: That's a really good point. I had, uh, shared with somebody again, I think that the deep call that I feel towards hospitality these last couple years really does come from that expression of a band of joyful missionary disciples. And I wonder if my family's responding to that call in an accurate way. And I just recently joked at a, a parish. I was doing an Advent talk and I was talking to moms primarily. And I said, you know, when we pick up our kids at school, are we smiling at other people? Are we looking down at our phones and not taking that opportunity to make eye contact and say hello? Because sometimes that's, that's all it takes in this world where we're so used to just being focused on ourselves and our own business. When they see the mom that's at pickup, smiling at people, making eye contact saying, hello, that kinda stuff makes a difference because there's a level of joy, right? That can be hopefully witnessed and then desired by other people cuz we have good news. Archbishop Vigneron: Right. Yeah. I, I, one of the most, uh, impressive examples that uh, uh, ever I've come across was, uh, was talking to, a man in the Washington DC airport. We just struck up a conversation. I was wearing my clerical clothes, of course. So he approached me and, uh, we were talking about, evangelization and uh, one of the things he and his family do is, uh, have some sort of, uh, outdoor neighborhood activity once a month, uh, touch football or, uh, some kind of, extreme Frisbee. They do something and then, share a meal with the neighbors and it's a way for his family, uh, to be hospitable to other families. And he said it's very effective, uh, as a way to be in the neighborhood. And I think, uh, I mean there, there are lots of, uh, dimensions for, being, uh, hospitable, but I, I do think family to family or opening one's family circle is a particularly radical form of hospitality. Mary: I agree. This is the Holy Spirit talking Mike and I, when we saw the topic of this show, I, um, I have felt called in my own neighborhood to figure out ways to, we're quite an isolated neighborhood. I don't know my neighbors. And we live in a society where people don't, you know, sit out on the front porch anymore. And I was telling Mike just a couple weeks ago, I really feel the Lord has placed on my heart, this idea to just invite our neighbors over, say, you know, from one to two, we'll have some snacks on our, on our front lawn and you're welcome to come over and grab a snack. We'd love to meet you. And, and I think sometimes we over, overthink things instead of just doing simple things like that. And it sounds like your conversation with that man in the airport, that's what he's suggesting. Just talk to people that are around you. Mike: Well, Mary, don't forget also the reason you invite them over is your, remember to tell the Archbishop about what you got going on in your front yard. Mary: Right. Archbishop Vigneron. I'm gonna tell you, my husband set up some really awesome Christmas lights and a Christmas tunnel. So I was like, we can invite people over, but honestly, it's, it's thinking about the creative ways that within our own circles, we can extend hospitality. I think that can really start to move the needle with some of the isolation, because I do think sometimes people would not necessarily think of Catholics or the Catholic church to be, um, a place of radical hospitality or unusually gracious hospitality. And the way that changes is what we do as individuals and as families and as parishes. Archbishop Vigneron: Right. And then there, there is the, the, very, uh, radical gesture of saying, uh, would you like to come to this, uh, talk, would you like to come to this prayer service? Would you like to, uh, would you like to come to mass with me that's quite radical hospitality today? I think Mary: You're right. We, um, St. Al's downtown, which I know you're very familiar with. It had an event at the tree lighting at campus marshes, which is in the center of, um, downtown Detroit. There was a tree lighting and St. Al's opened its doors and invited people to hand out candles and invite strangers to come in and say a prayer. And they had set up such a beautiful prayer space. And I brought my young boys, ten, nine, and eight. And I was so surprised at how willing my boys were to go up to complete strangers and say, would you like to come into the church and light a candle? And I had the opportunity to sit in the church as people were coming in. And of course, St. Al's from the exterior, you don't necessarily know that it's there and what a beautiful church it is. Mary: And I'm watching all of these people come in and light candles. And I will tell you, Archbishop Vigneron, I was moved to tears with the beauty of invitation, just saying, come on in, you're welcome here. God wants to see you and say hello to your spirit. And I was also encouraged by my, young boys who were so willing to go up to groups of complete strangers and say, come pray with us at St. Al's. Um, and the simplicity of it struck me that sometimes we overthink things with programming and different things within our parish, when maybe it's just opening our doors and saying, we're here. And this is an opportunity to pray. Archbishop Vigneron: When comment, I, I can make Mary. And, it's part of my being a little bit more of a philosopher than a practical guy, but, uh, what you just described is a mystery, isn't it that, uh, those that experience the, those gestures that's really, uh, a working out that's a sacramental manifestation of God's radical hospitality, you know, it's God's house and he, he's the one who says I'd like to have you here. Uh, you know, we talked at the beginning about the New Testament foundation for hospitality. I think another way it's founded is with the parable of the wedding feast, uh, this, filling up the banquet hall is so important to God that he sent his son to die and rise in order to make it happen. And so let's go back to sharing our pew. Archbishop Vigneron: It's not my pew. God wants these people in his house. And it's a chance for me as an older brother, an older sister, uh, one who's, uh, a little bit more in tune with, the master of the feast to welcome somebody that, the Lord of the feast wants to come, into his home. And that's not just church that that's, that's, the domestic church, you know, Mary you've been talking about your family and your own home. Okay. If it is a domestic church and it is it's really God's house. And when you invite people into your home, uh, you are an agent, uh, God inviting people into God's house. Mary: Yeah. That very good way, to look at it. And it's hard sometimes. And I've shared that with again, different moms, cuz that's my community that, you know, I have to overlook the fact that, you know, my house is messy sometimes and our counters are full of clutter and there can be a real, almost, um, external pride that isn't appropriate. You know, that people just wanna be with people. My house doesn't need to look perfect to open up our table to our neighbors or to our friends that are, you know, that it's something that God calls us to do. And it helps, Archbishop Vigneron to think of the domestic church to kind of push me past the pride, you know, I, I sometimes like my house is so loud and chaotic and there's so many children, but when people come over, they, we have a good time, you know? And so to, think of it as a domestic church that we're inviting people into because that's the work that God has called us to because of his profound love is really helpful. Mike: You know, stepping from this. I mean, obviously we're talking about kind of the personal, the family and the personal home, the domestic church, uh, Archbishop, you know, what are some concrete things that you would love to see as chief shepherd that you'd love to see your parishes and the parishioners, you know, beyond giving up their pew? Is there anything else kind of in the, that you'd love to see parishes, Mary: We're not gonna let that die. Mike: That's just gonna, yeah, Archbishop Vigneron: We we're, we're gonna keep beating that horse. Mike: That's right. That's right. It's just, you know, it's not dead yet, so no, no, but especially in this season of, of advent and Christmas, you know, coming up, is there something specific you'd love to see your parishes and parishioners be doing in this time? Archbishop Vigneron: Well, I, I think invite people to, uh, come, to the church and find the church a, to be a home, uh I'm I mean, maybe it it's, uh, an invitation to come along with me to a service, uh, that could be very helpful. It is, would be a very helpful form of hospitality, invite people to come to mass, we're, we're going to be at this mass, would you like to come along? Uh, and I think not just neighbors, but family members as well. Um, and, uh, not to be, I, I think to exercise that sort of, uh, vulnerability to invite, not to, nag, but to uh, with affection and respect, good manners to invite and to, see what happens. I also think, uh, people we might consider are, uh, senior citizens who can be, feel very isolated at this time. And they may in in fact, even be, uh, able on their own to get to church, but an invitation to, would you like to come along with us, uh, might be easier for you if, uh, if we stop to pick you up that sort of a thing. I think little acts, I think, I think, uh, that's what I'd like to see is a thousand small acts of hospitality. That'll be a lot of, mustard, trees growing. Mary: Well, think about the power, if, if you know, it's, this is idealistic, of course, but if, you know, even 50% of people that attend a parish extended an invitation. Right. And I think sometimes it's hard. It's hard though, because it does take a level of vulnerability and almost a Finese to make sure that you're doing it respectfully and not in a nagging way, but it could make such a profound difference when you, um, when you think about families of parishes Archbishop Vigneron, do you see the, um, an advantage when it comes to hospitality, how do we live hospitality or radical hospitality, usually gracious hospitality within our families of parishes, both from parish to parish and also to the external or outside kind of world or society? Archbishop Vigneron: Well, I think, uh, yes, indeed. Uh, I, there is no, uh, idea behind grouping the parishes into families to, uh, destroy, uh, parish identity, but it does mean to maintain that identity while at the same time, inviting other people in to open the circle. And, uh, our families of parishes are gonna be, a platform for the new evangelization, to the extent that they do extend hospitality, uh, beyond the boundary of the parish, into all the members of the, the grouping. But as you say, it's also about, uh, beyond the family, and to welcome those who aren't ordinarily, uh, members of the, the, the grouping there. I think this is, as, we get into, uh, young adults, uh, teenagers, there's a, a lot more of this, uh, moving between parishes and even between families and, uh, we need to help those people feel welcome. Mike: You know Archbishop, just on kind of a personal level. Has there been, like, can you think of a specific time in your life where you experienced radical hospitality and what that was like for you? Archbishop Vigneron: Yes. Uh, as, maybe some of the listeners know Cardinal Dearden sent me to the American seminary in Rome to do my theological studies and, uh, living those years as a stranger. Uh, certainly that was a challenge, but, uh, I remember people and experiences that made me feel at home and, uh, I very much appreciated that. And I think it has helped me understand how important it is, to be on watch for somebody who feels himself, herself, a stranger, and to do what I can to make them feel at home. Mike: I know even when I think personally about the experiences of hospitality that have meant the most to me, it's, it's usually been a situation like that as well. I know, like, uh, you know, starting a new job, for example, you know, you're kind of in this new workplace, you don't know many people and, you know, there's always kind of that one person that kind of seems to have a charism for it. And they kind of like, make sure you're, you're good. And they invite you to, you know, meet other people and introduce you and all that kind of stuff. And that always kind of helps ease you in, it makes you feel much more, better, and much more comfortable in the situation, you know? Mary: Yeah. I was thinking when Archbishop Vigneron was talking, you know, about times of, uh, radical hospitality being shown. I was on a mission trip when I was in college and I met a priest and, or he was a deacon at the time and he was gonna be ordained. I can't even remember his name now, but he was being ordained in Ottawa. And it was like six months after this mission trip. And he said, you know, I'd really like you and your friend to come to my ordination, but we were young adults. We, we didn't have the finances to go, you know, do a weekend away in Ottawa for this ordination. And he said, there's a parishioner. Um, this older lady who lived by herself and she'd love to have you stay with her. And so we took this road trip and we stayed with this woman and she made us meals and she was so kind, and we were complete strangers. And we, we never heard from her again, it was this one time when she opened up her house to us, let us sleep there, fed us and let us go to this ordination. Um, and I think about things like that, you know, little things that we can do to open our homes and our, make people feel welcome, Mike: Archbishop, is there anything else you'd like to add to this on, on this, uh, specific topic Archbishop Vigneron: I'd like to go back to the, point about prayer, uh, prayer, you know, my prayer is a very, very personal part of my life. And to invite somebody into my prayer is I think a very particular kind of hospitality that that's a, form to, for us to think about how can I make, how can I help somebody else feel at home, in this personal moment of my own intimate sanctuary that we pray together. Mary: And in your experience, is that just really as simple as saying, how can I pray for you? And can we pray together? Is that how you've, you've done it or you've seen people do it and it's effective Archbishop Vigneron: Yes, that's a yes. Mary: I don't do that often. I don't do that often. That seems really challenging to me, but it's a good challenge that maybe I can try to incorporate more in my life in the moment saying, how can I pray for you or let's pray right now. It would be good Archbishop Vigneron: At, some point, uh, when one, when you identify yourself as a disciple of Jesus, uh, however that happens, then the next thing is, there something I can pray for for you? And then people usually say yes, and then say, well, well, maybe we could pray right now. Would you like to do that? And, uh, something very simple. Mary: Amen. So we're at the point in the podcast, Archbishop, Vigneron where we get to ask you questions that have been submitted by the faithful. If you're listening and you'd like to ask a question, please feel free to email us at eyesonjesuspodcast@aod.org. So that's eyesonjesuspodcast@aod.org, make sure to include your name, your parish. And of course your question. Our first question comes from Colin at St. Mary in Royal Oak. Colin asks, what are some reasons to pray for the intercession of St. Nicholas, even outside of the Christmas season? Archbishop Vigneron: Well, one, uh, very important way to pray , to St. Nicholas is his protection to children. I mean, uh, this is, one of the, the things we know about St Nicholas is that he was, uh, very much concern for the wellbeing of the young, another, uh, thing that we don't often think about in the west, but the, the Greeks are very attuned to this is that St. Nicholas participated in the first ecumenical council, the council of Nicaea in, 325 and was a great defender of the doctrine and the truth that Jesus Christ is truly, God, the Son of God consubstantial with the Father and, uh, St. Nicholas can be, a great intercessor for us, a great example to, uh, uh, to confess the Lordship of Jesus in the face of people who might want to water that down. Mike: A second question, Archbishop is actually from Megan at St Therese Lisieux, and she asks, during Christmas, the other feast days kind of get lost, you know, like St. Steven and St. Basil, how do you balance feast days with the Christmas celebrations? Archbishop Vigneron: I think the way to do this and I try to do it in my own life is to see these days, not as competition, but mutually illuminative, uh, St basil, for example, coming in the, the day after new year's, uh, the day after we celebrate, uh, the motherhood of Mary as the mother of God, uh, January the first we celebrate, uh, St basil as a teacher of that doctrine. And, uh, an example of somebody who lived it out or St. Stephen on, uh, the day after Christmas, it's not, uh, the whiplash of, a lot of sweet joy followed by the reality of hostility, but that, what Stephen died for was to be a witness as a witness, to the, the truth of, the messiahship of Jesus. And so I, I think, uh, these feast days provide a lens on Christmas. I think we have to be, it doesn't help to put them into competition with one another, but to see them as mutually illuminative. Mary: Our final question is from Joe at Christ the good shepherd and Joe asks, we have finished the year of St. Joseph, what fruits were harvested for you personally, and for the diocese as a whole, Archbishop Vigneron: I think very similar fruits, the fruits of a renewal of, uh, Joseph's intercession as, uh, the head of the holy family of which we are all members and, uh, fruits of, uh, being a good example of stewardship, both. Certainly for me personally, it's been a reminder of, the call that I have to be like Joseph, a righteous man. And that means a man of faith. Uh, that's that's where righteousness comes from it's by faith. And so for me to have faith like Joseph, to fulfill my responsibility as, my stewardship of, some part of, God's family. And I think, uh, this has been very much a fruit in the lives of many priests. I also think it's been fruit in the lives of many, uh, layman who, who themselves are fathers. Mike: That's beautiful. Archbishop Before we close. I, of course always want to ask you if there's something specific that we can be praying for you about, um, some intentions that we can keep in mind in our own personal prayer. Archbishop Vigneron: I think, uh, as I look to beginning a new year, ask the Lord to give me light so that in the coming year, uh, I will, do my part to direct his family, the way he wants it directed. Mike: Beautiful. That gift of wisdom. So, so, so strong or light, as you said, you know, um, beautiful Archbishop. Would you mind closing us with a blessing, Archbishop Vigneron: Be very glad to let's begin by giving God the glory. Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit as it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be world without end amen. May almighty God bless all of you listeners and your loved ones, almighty God, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Amen. Mike: Thanks Archbishop Mary: Thank you Archbishop. Archbishop Vigneron: You're most welcome. Mary: Stay tuned for the next episode of eyes on Jesus, a new episode every month. And if you enjoy listening, you might also like Detroit's stories, a podcast from the arch diocese of Detroit. Find it on your favorite podcast app.