Allen Vigneron: I'm Archbishop Allen Vigneron of the Archdiocese of Detroit, and this is the Eyes on Jesus Podcast. Mike Chamberland: Hello and welcome to the Eyes on Jesus Podcast with Archbishop Vigneron. I'm your host Mike Chamberland Mary Wilkerson: And I am your host, Mary Wilkerson. Mike Chamberland: We are excited to release new episodes once a month so please make sure to subscribe and review wherever it is that you listen to podcasts. Archbishop, welcome and thank you once again for joining us. It's great to have you on the show. Allen Vigneron: Good to be with you, Mike and Mary. Wonderful to be back. Mary Wilkerson: Yes. Mike Chamberland: Archbishop, how was your last month? I know obviously, it's been a crazy time in our history, a crazy time just in general. Obviously, with the pandemic, with masses resuming again, I'm sure you've been extremely busy. How have you been? Allen Vigneron: I've been fine, thank you. I have to say it is, I think, for all of us a really trying time to deal with the consequences of the pandemic. But I try to remember Father Solanus's admonition to thank God ahead of time. So I'm thanking him for all the good he's going to bring out of all of this. Mary Wilkerson: Yes. Mike Chamberland: That's great. I know one of the things we can be thankful for is obviously the ordination of some new priests, but I know that they're happening in a kind of a unique way because of the pandemic. You want to speak to that a little bit, Archbishop? Allen Vigneron: Sure. Not only the men who have finished seminary and are being ordained to the priesthood, but the men who have finished their third year of theology and have been ordained deacons. These are taking place individually at Blessed Sacrament Cathedral as a way to observe the social distancing policies that we put in place. Actually, one of the seminarians has started to call them Wojtyla ordinations because he thinks they put us all in mind of the way young Karol Wojtyla had to be ordained on the QT. Mary Wilkerson: Oh, wow. Allen Vigneron: In Krakow. So it's a wonderful experience, very different. These events are really significant for the life of the diocese, and it's a sadness that we can't have the solemn celebrations that help bind us up, but we're able to livestream the ordinations. That's one way to try and get more people involved. But the most important thing is that it's not about this particular event but it's the mission. As I told the fellows the mission goes on and we can't wait for some ideal time to send them on the mission. Mary Wilkerson: Were they able to have their families there? These men that were being ordained? Allen Vigneron: Yes. When we scheduled the ordinations, we thought perhaps we would still be on the norm of keeping only 10 people in the cathedral. But now with the 25% norm that we're following, their families are there. Mary Wilkerson: That's great. And where the deacons and priests able to kind of... Even with some of the strangeness, there's still pretty sacred days for them I'm assuming, right? Allen Vigneron: Oh, ways, certainly. Mary Wilkerson: Yeah. Thanks good. Allen Vigneron: I think they'll remember this particular way the rest of their lives. Mary Wilkerson: Yes, That's what we've said about- Allen Vigneron: I think particularly, I remind them that it's a way to be committed to the mission. Mary Wilkerson: Oh, I love that. I love that. And so many of these moments have been shifted. But I like what you just said because I keep trying to... We're never going to forget this. It's such a point in history. It's a dark point in a lot of ways, but what a significant moment for us all, right? Allen Vigneron: Exactly. We believe we know from the resurrection of Jesus that he's the lord of history. And I don't know how he's going to make all of this fit into his plan, but if you and I today respond as well as we can and take advantage of the graces he offers, we're going to be that much closer to the kingdom. Mike Chamberland: Amen. Archbishop, speaking of adequate responses to these days in these times, I know that we've been experiencing in a particular way some heavy days here in Detroit and our nation, obviously with the growing protests and unrest in response to the horrific death of George Floyd. I know that you obviously had some specific personal messages to the Black Catholic community acknowledging this, and even just generally totally faithful about the injustice in our society and the wound that has been there for years and years left by racism and it's still very much felt to this day. Would you mind speaking a little bit to that archbishop? As you experience and saw this on the news yourself, what kind of going through your mind as the chief shepherd of Detroit? Allen Vigneron: Well certainly, Mike. Obviously, to acknowledge the great hurt that is being spoken about being presented to us, the hurt to Mr. Floyd's family, the hurt to his community, the hurt that the African-American community feels very grievously. And as I said in my message to our community, when one member suffers, we all suffer. That's eminently true in the mystical body, the bonds we hold in the grace of Christ. But it's true in the body politic when one is treated unjustly, it's an offense against us all. We need to recognize that evil. We need to recommit ourselves to overcome that evil. We need humbly to recognize that it's woven very much into the fabric of our history. We have the great shame of having been a nation in which slavery was legitimate and we need to repent from that and move to heal the wounds that still remain because of it. Mary Wilkerson: When you choose Archbishop Vigneron to kind of speak in to a situation like this and kind of take that leadership moment to let people know that you're with them in solidarity and praying for them, is that a process that you want to do it right away and you want to speak to everybody? Is it hard for you to speak into it? What's that like to kind of address your flock in such a moment of unrest? Allen Vigneron: Mary, I do want to be with people and offer my priestly support, my sympathy and the word of Christ that I can bring. I try to respond as soon as I can, but at the same time to be thoughtful about it so that it isn't simply Allen Vigneron talking. But I exercise the mission given to me by my ordination and call to present the mind and heart of Jesus. Mary Wilkerson: I always say I'm quite present on social media and I saw so many people share your words as a moment to try to extend some type of healing in this difficult time and to let people know that the Catholic Church is with them. A question that I have for you- Allen Vigneron: But, Mary, let me just say something about that. Mary Wilkerson: Yeah, go ahead. Please. Allen Vigneron: I think obviously to express solidarity, but I hope also that this is an opportunity for all of us members of the Catholic Church to be recommitted in all the ways were involved in our society and in political life to work zealously, to uproot prejudice and racism from our midst. Mary Wilkerson: So I was just going to ask is what are some things that we can actually be doing as people of faith, do you think? And like you just said, working zealously I think is a profound phrase towards justice, right? Allen Vigneron: Exactly. And certainly all of the spirit, what some people might call the spiritual side of it, to pray, but also that should lead us to repent, to examine our own consciences. And there is in each of us a tendency to not stand with the other, the one who's different from ourselves to acknowledge what that is in me and I need to do that and then to take action to act against it and to, in this case particularly, to ask myself what's God inviting me to do to help eradicate racism from our community? Mary Wilkerson: Well, thank you for sharing those thoughts with us. In addition to all these things happening in our society, we've had a super-busy month in the Archdiocese of Detroit. Just this past weekend you announced something really exciting and ambitious for the future of the archdiocese, which is Family of Parishes and we're going to get into that, families of parishes. But first we wanted to talk about the fact that parishes are resuming public masses that started May 19th. And a lot of parishes followed suit by Pentecost. So by now most parishes, if not all parishes should be practicing public mass again. Can you share how you've been monitoring the pandemic in recent weeks? What led to this decision to gradually open the last time we spoke? We didn't know when it was going to be? How's that process been? Allen Vigneron: Let's start with the question about how we got to our decision was really by consulting experts, people who seem to understand where we are right now with the pandemic, people who understand epidemiology. Looking at other elements in our society that have moved toward opening up and applying those norms prudently to ourselves. And as said before, we've got a workgroup and they've looked at all of this. They made a recommendation and so we thought this was the right time to do this opening, observing norms for social distance and certain protocols to help ensure everybody's safety. How do we keep in touch with what's going on? A lot of that really is, I depend on the auxiliary bishops to get the feedback from the parish priests. We talk about it every week. I think, it's going fairly well. I admire very much the zeal and the creativity of the priests as they've tried to adapt, the protocols to the particular circumstances of their parish. From what I pick up, it's not lots of people flocking back. Other bishops and I, if we've spoken about it. We think this is going to be pretty typical. It's going to be a slow startup. People still have questions about their safety and we need to be patient in moving forward. Mike Chamberland: Yeah. I know despite, obviously, being open again, obviously, the faithful are still dispensed from the Sunday obligation at least until September 6th. I'm sure some of that is for a concern of some people's safety and their own health. And obviously some of their own fears and concerns. Can you speak a little bit to why you chose to keep that, Archbishop? Allen Vigneron: Well, Mike, up and down while we have norms and protocols situations vary so much from person to person, from parish to parish. People need to be able to make good informed judgments. This is not a relativism about conscience, but people's particular circumstances vary and this gives them the freedom to make those best judgments as they can. Mary Wilkerson: I like that you used the word freedom. I happen to be somebody that can tend to be quite scrupulous. And so knowing that the obligation is lifted to September 6, did give a little bit more freedom for us to discern within our family how we were going to do that with young children. So I know I appreciated that piece. And at the same- Allen Vigneron: Well... Mary Wilkerson: Go ahead. Allen Vigneron: I was going to say, Mary, yeah. I mean, here next to the cathedral, I'm not going to be able to figure all of that out. It might be what the baby is doing on a certain day, and I have confidence that you appreciate the gravity of the ordinary obligation, and you'll figure this out. Mary Wilkerson: Right. And I saw that you are still going to continue to livestream masses at 9:00 each Sunday. Was that a conscious decision that you made knowing that some people wouldn't yet feel safe returning to public gatherings? Allen Vigneron: Yes. It provides one more way for people to be connected to the Holy Sacrifice of the mass. We've gotten a lot of very positive feedback about the livestreaming. I've decided to continue. I've moved it from noon to 9:00 because the parish community is now going back to meeting regularly at 11:00 in the morning. Mary Wilkerson: So when you are doing the livestream mass at 9:00, celebrating the livestream mass, are there people in the pews for you? Allen Vigneron: There have been a few people. We opened the doors to the Cathedral and I've had some people. There are few enough that it's not to even to worry about social distancing. Mary Wilkerson: Sure. I had a friend who said, that's a priest, and I asked him, how he's doing resuming masses and he said, "It just feels so good to be with the community again." He's been celebrating his masses through livestreams and things like that, but it feels good to him to have the flock back with him. So that's good. Allen Vigneron: It does. I had the the first priesthood ordination last night and of course it was livestream, but the there were about 150 people in the Cathedral, the young man's family and friends. And it was great to have people I could look at when I say, "Peace be with you" instead of just staring into the camera. Mary Wilkerson: Absolutely, yeah. That's wonderful. I think a lot of hope is lined up for us this summer as we move back into resuming some of what we know in our norms. But changed, so that's good. Mike Chamberland: Well, as you just said, Mary, I think there's some hope and I think today, we want to overall speak about a hopeful topic which is this announcement which, Archbishop, you made on Pentecost specifically about families of parishes as a new direction in which our archdiocese is going to be moving and going. I know it's been a big piece of prayer, a big piece of discernment that's been taking time over years given before the Synod, through the Synod, after this Synod. This whole various recommendations and prayer and considerations have been developed to overall help us to be unleashed, to help us to be on mission. And this is just another piece of that. So I know, Archbishop, you had obviously this big announcement, there's a video and also a letter released and people can of course go and see that. But would you mind just telling us yourself just here on this podcast, what is a Family of Parishes and how was that plan being developed? Allen Vigneron: Mike, if I could just give a little bit of a background and then I'll take up that question. Mike Chamberland: Yeah, please. Allen Vigneron: We had set ourselves out on implementing Synod 16 about a year ago through Sent on Mission and we had put the parishes into six waves. Parishes in each wave being engaged in strategic missionary planning. And then the pandemic occurred. And that approach to implementing this Synod, it became clear, wasn't going to work anymore. The social dynamics, the changes that certainly we saw on the horizon have accelerated exponentially. And so we couldn't go forward with that plan. And so, what we are going to go forward with is families of parishes. And it's really a result of a discernment about what's the Synod calling, what's the Holy Spirit calling us to do post pandemic in order to implement the Synod. So families of parishes are parishes being grouped together six as the smallest probably. Excuse me, three as the smallest probably. Six as the largest, and those families will share the priests who serve the parishes and work together, put their resources together in order to plan how to implement the Synod, how to unleash the gospel, how to be on mission and how to go forward. How's the plan being developed? I've got three work groups right now engaged in thinking through how to implement this basic direction. One, to talk about how the family will be organized and lead. And then another group to look at how the Family of Parishes engages in the mission and then another group to outline how the resources for the Family of Parishes will be organized in order to support the mission. Mary Wilkerson: So a lot of us in the Archdiocese of Detroit have been through some changing and some shifting historically through the diocese with the Together in Faith initiative and different things like that where parishes were called to work together to cluster, to merge. So some of this language seems familiar, but yet it's different. Can you tell us how this would be different than a clustering or merger? Allen Vigneron: Sure, Mary. A merger basically means that you take two parishes or sometimes three and they take on a whole new identity as one single parish. That's not what this is about. A cluster means that you take the two parishes, each retains its own identity but shares one pastor. That's not what this is about. This is about families of parishes retaining their identity and sharing the clergy who are assigned to those parishes and sharing their resources for the sake of mission. Mary Wilkerson: It's funny Unleash- Allen Vigneron: Parishes in the family retain their own identity. Mary Wilkerson: Okay. But then work together to share resources and share a pastor. Am I hearing that they would be sharing- Allen Vigneron: Well, share the clergy. Say, if we have a family of six parishes, I don't know how many priests will be assigned to the parishes in that family. But the priests will work as a team to care for the parishes in the family. Mary Wilkerson: You talked in Unleash the Gospel a little bit about different habits, good habits that we can cultivate as the faithful. And you talked about a spirit of cooperation and confidence in God and an attitude of gratitude. Are those going to be things that need to be kind of key as we move through this process together? Allen Vigneron: Well, for sure. We need to be docile to the Holy Spirit because once the parishes are established, they're going to have to listen to the Holy Spirit to say what's God inviting our Family of Parishes to do in order to unleash the gospel. How can we be bold? This is certainly a big innovation for the way we live our lives as members of parishes, and certainly we're going to have to cooperate. And above all we have confidence in God that we're responding to the direction he's taking us and that he'll bring great good out of us. Mike Chamberland: Archbishop, I know as I understand it from what you had said, basically a lot of this assessment, the initial assessment of which parishes would kind of become a family is going to be done between now and advent of this upcoming year, 2020. Is that correct? Allen Vigneron: Yes. And I've got groups of clergy and laity looking at that, suggesting various possibilities and we'll review it as they make their proposal of what families seem to make sense. This kind of collaboration that we're looking for, teams of clergy and lay leaders, what will be the most effective way to group a set of parishes into a family. And we expect maybe somewhere between 60 and 80 families to be established. Mike Chamberland: Very good. I know you said that the pandemic has kind of accelerated some planning and accelerated some of the thoughts in all this. Has that accelerant been somewhat of the kind of the pre-shortages and tied also to financial concerns given the pandemic and everything coming up? Allen Vigneron: Exactly. Our resources are appreciably decreased because of what we've been through. I mean, we can expect whatever kind of economic recovery to take place is going to be over a significant period of time which means our people are going to have fewer resources to contribute to the mission. And we have recognized that we have fewer priests. We don't have enough priests to have a pastor for every parish, and that's accelerating because a number of our priests are in the vulnerable category and aren't available to lead our parishes as they might have prior to the pandemic. Mary Wilkerson: Have you been able to talk to priests? Are they excited about this? Is it stretching everybody a little bit? Are people nervous about it? Are they excited? What's the general feeling? I know you just announced it so you might not have a good pulse on that yet. But how are people receiving it? Allen Vigneron: It's a yes to all those questions you put, Mary. And a lot of it depends on the people's temperament. A lot of priests are excited about it. They're eager to move forward. Some are worried because it is a big change and they want... It's the unknown that we're moving into. But I think most priests have pledged to me that they want to cooperate and they want to make this work. I think they're glad that we're taking a step forward and we're being proactive and not simply dealing with our troubles one issue at a time. Mary Wilkerson: Sure. There's always that discussion moving from maintenance to mission. I think we've, under your leadership and under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, really been open to what our mission is as a diocese. And I loved that you explained this as a fruit of the Synod. This is where it's led. Even if it was a pivot off of Sent on Mission. Can you speak a little bit about what you see? And just remind us what the mission is? What we're going for as an archdiocese? Allen Vigneron: To be a total missionary church, which means not only re-embracing Christ, but re-embracing him so that we can share him with our neighbors and everybody else in Southeast Michigan. We talked about doing this with fewer resources. But by God's providence, that's what he's given us. But the mission is the same that he's given us to make disciples of all nations. And so we want to help people encounter Christ to grow in discipleship and then themselves to become evangelists alongside of us. Mike Chamberland: I know so many of our listeners are probably thinking as you've made this announcement and as they're listening now, "What about my parish? I love my parish. I love my pastor. I love the overall feel and flavor of my parish." As you know, Archbishop, each parish kind of has its own nature and entity as you kind of spoke earlier about when you're- Allen Vigneron: From culture, yeah. Mary Wilkerson: Yeah, it's culture. That's what it is. Mike Chamberland: That's a better word. Thank you. I know a lot of people are probably thinking, "Hey, I love my parish culture. I don't want to see that change. I don't want to see that undeveloped or be modified at all." So I don't know if you can tell us a little bit about just your thoughts on that. As these families come together, how do you suspect or hope that this will go? And have you gleaned anything from other diocese or anywhere else that this has already kind of been done? Allen Vigneron: The best reports that I've seen have come to us from our neighbor over in Ontario, the London Diocese. And it's working generally pretty well. It depends a lot on the leadership of the priests and the leadership team and the family. But I am glad that people feel blessed by the culture of their parish, but I would invite them to be willing to change a bit, not to destroy or obliterate that culture, but to think about how the blessing that that culture is, that's to pick a name, St. Michael Parish, that the blessing that St. Michael Parish's culture is, is something that they can share with other members in the family, so that all the parishes in the family can be more effectively on mission. It's a little bit like talking about evangelizing husband-and-wife families, parents and kids families. Great that they have blessings in the household, but there is a way that the Lord invites them to open up that circle to include other people. Other people who perhaps don't have as happy a family, but who by being brought into the circle can can be blessed by that, by opening that circle out. I think maybe the example we could think about is the Upper Room and how on the Saturday before Pentecost, the 12, Our Lady, the other disciples, that certainly, the joy and comfort of being in one another's company. Mary Wilkerson: Yes. Allen Vigneron: But on Pentecost morning, it wasn't that that family was broken up, was that that family was opened out. Mary Wilkerson: I know that a lot of people feel maybe nervous about what this process is going to look like. All of us are inclined to a little bit of territorialism. So I love that you talked about maybe even the comfort of the day before Pentecost that the Apostles and the Blessed Mother had, and then this call to go out to make so much more, right? The hope of that. How do we move though from being a little scared or worried or feeling territorial to being excited? What are some tips as the faithful to kind of get into the mode of the followers of Christ on Pentecost? Allen Vigneron: One place to start I think is to do what is sometimes called the review of life. Maybe with a piece of paper and a pen, sit down and say what are the five significant situations in my day, my month where I can go out of myself and help people encounter Christ? And to look at that and then to do a discernment and to honestly assess where I'm more comfortable, where I'm less comfortable and then to bring that to prayer and to see where do I feel called to go beyond my comfort zone? And where is Jesus asking me to go so that somebody who isn't one of his own right now will become his own because that's what he wants. He wants to make them happy. He wants to save them. He wants to give him life. And it'll take some sacrifice on my part to bring that about, but it's worth it, in order to make Jesus happy. Mike Chamberland: What I really like about... Well, I don't know. I'm still obviously... What I really like about this though, and it'll be interesting to see. I know there's going to be a lot of growing pains as you've mentioned, and I know myself as a parish staff member, I know there's going to be a lot of just work and development, but I do like that it forces us to lean again into the Holy Spirit and a docility to the Holy Spirit. I hear a lot of times people say things like "I didn't sign up for this or whatever." And that might be true, but I always like to think back to like Saint Peter and others is like, "They didn't know what they were signing up for." And you kind of signing up to be docile to the Holy Spirit and to God. And that takes a big amount of courage, but it's beautiful what God can do with that. At least that's been my reflection a little bit. Allen Vigneron: I think of two things in the acts of the Apostles to help me understand the way God continues to work. The first was St. Paul. He had a plan in his second missionary journey to continue in a circuit in Asia Minor, what's now Turkey. And twice St. Luke says that he was prevented from going forward. So he wound up going to a seaport on the northwest corner of Asia Minor to Taurus. And at night he had a dream in which somebody across the way in Europe, in Macedonia called for Paul to come and help him. And so he went into a new continent that he hadn't expected to move into. And the other is St. Paul's being shipwrecked on Malta on his way to Rome. He didn't expect to stop in Malta, but the ship was wrecked. He wound up there over the winter and established, planted a church that continues to be vibrant even to this very day. Mary Wilkerson: I'm so glad you brought those two things up because I do think the reality of the coronavirus and the pandemic has shifted us kind of into the unknown in some ways. And it can feel so scary or we can be open to God moving big in it. We've had a message as the Archdiocese of Detroit that God will move boldly if we ask him to, and just trusting that he will. And this is probably going to be a big step towards that, right? Allen Vigneron: I wouldn't use the word probably. Mary Wilkerson: Thank you, Archbishop. Allen Vigneron: I don't see the need to qualify. Mary Wilkerson: I like that. Allen Vigneron: It's a huge step. If we were in any other part of the country, we'd still have to face the aftermath of the pandemic. My temptation, if I hadn't been through the Synod, would be to think how I could put some more patches on the patches, on the patches to hold this thing together in the aftermath of the pandemic. Mary Wilkerson: Right. Allen Vigneron: The Synod is the Holy Spirit inviting me as the principle pastor to invite everybody to say, "The way we respond to this has to be about going forward on the mission and not simply maintenance." Mary Wilkerson: How do you see this change? I'm going to ask you a couple different questions. Impacting pastors and then parishioners, staff members and finally schools. How are schools going to play into this? I know those are four different groupings, but have you thought a bit about how this is going to affect those four groupings of people? So pastors and parishioners, staff workers and their schools. Allen Vigneron: Well, and I would say not just pastors, but all the priests. Mary Wilkerson: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Allen Vigneron: They're going to have to find new ways to work as a team and to identify the particular. I mean, all of us parish priests are generalists, but we do have different sets of skills that we can bring. Say you have a family of four parishes with six priests on the team, they're going to be able to think about who's got the most talent as the leader. Who's got the best talent as a catechist. Who's really the very best in dealing with young people, young adults. Mary Wilkerson: Right. Allen Vigneron: And not that the others don't have any connection to folks, but how can we be a team supporting one another? And I'd say that's very much the how it's going to be for their lay coworkers as well. And maybe one person in that family is really the very best at catechesis. Maybe another one is the very best at... Again, let's talk about youth ministry, young adults, that sort of thing. And then parishioners, I think it would be a similar sort of discernment. And to be connected with one another throughout the families to feel free to be at one another's table and to be involved with one another. Mutual projects that the whole family undertakes. And then you said about schools. We expect there will be two waves of families. The identities, we hope to have settled just before Christmas, Advent 2020. The first wave will be the wave of 2021, January to June. Through June would be a time of preparing and planning and then July to December would be launching getting into taking up that plan. So that the families will engage in strategic missionary planning and just as it was in Sent on Missions so it will be in this process. Schools and the opportunity for our communities to pick up a new Catholic education, Catholic schools as part of our missionary endeavor, that will continue to be something we're engaged in. So every Family of Parishes will have to include Catholic schools, Catholic education as part of what they're working on in their plan. Mary Wilkerson: Oh, I love to hear that. That's fantastic. Mike Chamberland: Archbishop, I know some people, you've been such a beautiful and wonderful Archbishop for us during this time especially keeping us mission focused. Some might think of this big change that you're doing and say, "Why didn't you leave something like this big decision to your successor or somebody's that's going to follow you soon here?" What would you say to that? Why did you discern that right now is the time to act? Allen Vigneron: Because I think the most important gift that God has given me as the Bishop of Detroit, has been the experience of Synod 16. And if I didn't act, but simply got into maintenance mode, post-pandemic, I think I'd betray the call of the Holy Spirit that I heard through the members of the Synod and people of the Archdiocese. I think it would be an injustice. I feel like I'd be letting everybody down. Mary Wilkerson: It's awesome that you've chosen to undertake this. And I'll tell you this conversation has been really helpful for me because when I first heard introduced, again, it seems really stretching. I like that we can focus it to be really hopeful like the next movement of the Holy Spirit in the Archdiocese of Detroit. It's exciting. Allen Vigneron: I'm glad for that, Mary. You've given me a lot of encouragement because for me, this is pretty bold to do this, but the alternatives just were dead ends. Just to keep trying to deal with one problem at a time. I've just gotten a lot of confirmation to continue the way we've been dealing with our structural challenges is not sufficient for the sake of the mission. I mean, the structures are not for their own sake. The structures are for the sake of the mission. What got clear to me is that the structures need to be shifted. Mary Wilkerson: Yeah. And I would say even Mike and I are friends outside of this podcast and we hang out with people that work and serve and love our church. We've said so many times like bold moves are going to be needed for evangelization and to really let the Holy Spirit work. And it's exciting that you're willing to lead those bold moves because it's not easy, I don't think to move forward with it, so that's great. Is there anything else you want to share with us about families of parishes? Allen Vigneron: All the people who are listening, please pray that we continue to be faithful to the direction the Holy Spirit gave us. I was reading to prepare for Pentecost. Some parts of St. John Paul's Cenacle and the Holy Spirit. And he said that, yes, the apostles came out of the Cenacle, but in some ways the church has always stayed there at the same time in prayer because it's out of that room that everything has grown. And so we need to stay there in prayer so that the kingdom of God can grow from Jerusalem to Judea, to Southeast Michigan. Mary Wilkerson: So this is the part in our podcast where we take questions from people in the Archdiocese of Detroit and we present them to you, Archbishop Vigneron. We ask people to submit their questions to Eyes on Jesus podcast at eod.org. And then each month, we ask you questions that the faithful have asked. When you ask your question if you have a question, make sure to include your first name, your home parish and of course your question. So our first question comes from Serenity of St. Margaret Parish and St. Clair Shores. And she says, "How do you feel about the current mass restrictions? Examples, the precautions that are there, reservations at parishes, leaving out the sign of peace, things like that. What advice would you have for members of the faithful that are trying to adjust to this new normal? And do you have any sense of how long they might last?" And I would assume she means things like masks too, all the new things that we're doing within our liturgies? Allen Vigneron: How do I feel about it? I wish we didn't have to do it. It's awkward and it takes a lot of effort and time that one thinks might be spent elsewhere. But I also think it's an act of charity. All of these inconveniences are things we do to try and be loving toward one another. And what advice? I think one does one's best to comply. But also I think each of us can look and say, "What's the grace that's being offered in this?" By God's providence, my 20/20 is shaped this way, which I never expected it would be. What are you asking, Lord? What are you offering me? How do you want me to become a better son, a better daughter in going through this experience? I think to find the Grace in the moment. Blessed be God in all his designs. That's Father Solanus. Mary Wilkerson: Do you have any sense of how long we're going to have to do these different things or we just don't know yet? Allen Vigneron: I don't know, Mary. I think this is something we depend on the health authorities, public health authorities to help understand. Mike Chamberland: Well, Archbishop, Ellen from St. Albert the Great in Dearborn Heights asks, "Many people think the Catholic Church is not a place for African-Americans or simply that there are no Black Catholics. But we know that this is not true, especially in our area. What would you say our church has to offer the Black Catholic community during these times and how can the church help? " Allen Vigneron: Well, about the sense of African-Americans not having a place in the Catholic Church in the United States, part of that is of history of being very unwelcoming and that's something we have to repent of and ask God to heal that memory. Certainly the Catholic Church is a wonderful place for black people to find a home. What do we have to offer? Especially, what we offer is communion in the Holy Eucharist, which is the greatest of possible gifts. I would also turn the question around St. John Paul always spoke about an exchange of gifts. So besides what the established Catholic Church in any one place might offer to a black man, a black woman, a black family, a very important point. We need to keep in mind is what's the gift they give? Black Catholics have a tremendous gift to give to somebody like me who's my ethnic background is Canadian and in German. Polish Catholics, Irish Catholics, we need the spiritual gifts that are part of the culture of the black church. So we should also keep that in mind. How can the church help? Well, I think through letting the Holy Spirit work in us so that we take those actions which are necessary to build a social order that conforms to God's plan, which is beautifully reflected I think in our founding documents. That's one of the blessings we have as an American people is that the ideals of equality cohere with the gospel teaching about the dignity of every human person. Mary Wilkerson: That's very helpful. And what a good reminder too to remind us that, yes, the church offers so much but each person that comes to the church enhances our community. So that's fantastic. And our last question comes from Christina from Our Lady of Good Counsel. And this is a great question I think to end on based on our conversation today. "How can the laity be most supportive of this transition to families of parishes? Are there specific ways that we can step in and help fill the gap?" Allen Vigneron: About being supportive, I think one of the most important ways is to be supportive of your parish priest. They're going to have a preeminent leadership role in helping to navigate us through this transition and it can mean just so much to a priest for somebody in the parish to say, "Father, I'm really grateful for what you're doing. I support you. That's very, very hopeful." I also think to help everybody keep the focus on mission, to acknowledge whatever has to be let go, whatever is the sacrifice, the challenge one faces in becoming a missionary Family of Parishes. But to always keep in mind the goal that this is God's Way to help us become better missionaries. I think those are important ways to be supportive, to always bring it back to mission. Specific ways to step in? I think to do a realistic assessment of what one's gift or competencies are the way one can contribute to the family and to help the family grow. And this question talks about filling in the gaps. I always admire people who see something that needs to be done, and they just step in and do it. Sometimes it's as simple as setting up chairs, but there's obviously more significant gaps to be filled. But the Holy Spirit, if we are attuned and take time every day to listen, he will show us what he wants us to accomplish in any one day in order to advance the kingdom. Mary Wilkerson: Amen. Mike Chamberland: Well, thank you so much, Archbishop for this conversation today. We really appreciate it. Before we conclude by asking you to do a blessing, I wanted to ask if there's any pair intentions that you specifically have at this time? Allen Vigneron: Well, please, I'd ask everybody to pray that we are faithful to the inspiration of the Synod as we move forward with this Family of Parishes initiative so that it isn't just an administrative shift, but it really is the moment to recapture our missionary identity. Mike Chamberland: Absolutely. And Archbishop, would you mind closing us with a blessing? Allen Vigneron: Happy to do it. Lord God, bless your sons and daughters, all those who listen to this podcast, strengthen us in the love of our Lord Jesus so that in all things, we may spread his love to the world. And may Almighty God bless you, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Mary Wilkerson: Amen. Mike Chamberland: Amen. Mary Wilkerson: Stay tuned for the next episode of Eyes on Jesus. A new episode every month. And if you enjoyed listening, you might also like the Open Door Policy Podcast with Father Steve Pullis and Danielle Center, a podcast for joyful missionary disciples and our movement to unleash the gospel. Find it on your favorite podcast app.