CHOOSING YOUR REFLECTION
TITLE: Surprised by Grace
TIME: 41:32

Getting married is an event that holds a different meaning for everyone. For some, itÕs based on religious traditions, and for others itÕs a validation of an earlier choice they made to live with that special someone they love.Ê

Hi, IÕm Lauren, and welcome to Choosing Your Reflection; a series of discussions that reflect upon the reasons we have for choosing our wedding day outfits.Ê Our guests are diverse, but they all share a common journey.Ê

As they share their stories, theyÕll help us unravel the mystique that exists around choosing that special outfit, and what they learned about themselves along the way.

Lauren: Today I have a very, very important friend of mine who I've known for practically my entire life. I was at her wedding when I was only about 10 years old, and I would love for you to introduce yourself, so welcome!

Erin: Thank you. Thank you very much for having me here. I'm Erin. I have been married É itÕll be 15 years this year. I am 44. I live in Philadelphia and I work as a union rep for New Jersey State workers.

Lauren:  When you think about your dress and that time, what is the first sort of word or thought or even like moment that first comes to your mind and whatever that first thing is, I would love for you to start there.
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Erin: I think that the first thing that comes to mind is grace. You know, when you think about
getting married, you know, whether you're thinking about it when you're a kid, right, what that's going to be, you kind of have this romantic aura about your conceptions and that, you know, once you're engaged, this will be like the happiest time you know, and so exciting! And the reality was that it was a very, very stressful and often difficult time. So there was kind of that shattering of preconceptions. And just the circumstances surrounding everything with the wedding where so much went wrong and so much was crazy. 

But through it all, what mattered most really came bubbling up. And that fundamental cornerstone of, you know, I was marrying this man that, you know, I loved with everything I am and I get to be with, you know, those I love around us. And it was grace. It was God's grace.

Lauren: So, thinking about the grace of that experience, could you start off with how you met Mike?

Erin: My whole goal and mission had really been É I was going to be a doctor. I was going to go to medical school. I was going to be doctor. This was my driving passion in life. And that was kind of all set up. I got into my dream school and was all set to go. And then I got really sick and I had to defer my acceptance. And in the meantime I needed medical benefits. And, you know, I was coming off my parents and I needed my own plan and I happened to get hired by the state of New Jersey. 

And so you know, I was really fighting for my life at that point. It was really taking everything I had to just be able to go to work and survive. I had my own first apartment there and that was all great but it was a very difficult time. I had huge medical bills and I was realizing that on top of all of this I was going to need to take another job just to try to kind of make ends meet. And I just wanted it to be something that I loved. 

When I was in college, I was the assistant to the head of the biology department and I did some teaching there. I saw an ad from this school looking for teachers and thought maybe it was something, you know, I could do, so I did. And shortly after, like, it was actually one a part of the orientation they had like this intense three-day training. And that's where I met Mike. 

And part of this training really involved delving deep, as far as sharing of, you know, who you are and yourself. And Mike had been going through a similarly difficult time. He'd lost his mother and you know, was dealing with trouble with his own business. So we became friends, you know, through that. 

And I was kind of oblivious to the fact that, you know, he liked me and just thought it was a coincidence that we always seemed to finish up teaching at the same time in the evening. And he would suggest we go to dinner and pay for it and all that, ÒOh, you get it next time. You get it next time! You had a hard day!Ó and I'm oblivious. 

And, you know, I'd really been just hell bent on trying to survive and make ends meet. And being so sick, I hadn't even given thought to getting involved with somebody. And it was at one of those dinners that I realized I wanted to hold his hand. And, you know, I'm very analytical and so I'm parked between, you know, like, ÒOkay, why do I want to do this?Ó versus the fact that it was a nice thing to want to do that with somebody. 

And so I just kind of left my hand in the middle of the table. And, you know, I É I would touch him, he started touching my hand, like, as he's talking more and more, and then he just kind of left it there, you know? And that was É that was sparks. 

And it felt like when you go to the eye doctor. If you wear glasses, you often don't realize what you're not seeing until they put the new prescription in front of you and youÕre like, ÒOh, wow, I can see this and I never even knew I was you know, missing this.Ó That's what it was like. And I realized I É I could see his heart and he had a wonderful heart. That was, you know, that was the start of it. 

Sorry that was a little more than you wanted!

Lauren: No, that's exactly what we want! The details, all of that. We're trying to find out not only you know things about your dress, but about who you are as a person, because I think that really shapes the process that we all go through.

You mentioned that you weren't really thinking about a relationship. Had you thought ÒOh, I want a relationship. I want to move forwardÓ before the difficult times when you were meeting Mike and did you have a dream image of maybe getting married and maybe having a dress? Or was your main goal medical school and becoming a doctor? 

Erin: My main goal was medical school. I was very much a tomboy to begin with. And I was not one of those girly girls who was, you know, always imagining what your future husband's going to be or you know, I just, yeah, I wasn't É wasn't a huge part. In fact, if you would ask me as a kid about a wedding dress, I would have laughed at you because I hated dresses and I hated you know, anything frou frou like that, you know?

I grew up on a farm. And that was É I was just happiest with É when I was a horse person, and wedding dresses and horses don't go hand in hand, although I, I did think like if I ever do get married I would want to get married on horseback. But that didn't happen!

Lauren: Moving forward in time now, once you have been engaged, could you talk a little bit about what your image of marriage was once you were in the process of getting married? 

Erin: We had a hell of a first date! We literally just went to the movies and then what the real magic was was É we were, we were in my dad's truck I had borrowed É but it was like neither one of us wanted it to end and we just stayed talking all night. And I, I was going back up to my parents house in the following morning, and I  É I think we finally drove off at like five o'clock in the morning. And that had never happened before. So I was realizing like, I was starting to feel like this, this relationship was you know, different than anything I'd been in before. 

And we had been friends I would say probably for a year before things like turned romantic like that. So, I think that gave us a good, you know, foundation. I knew him and he knew me. So I kind of had that in mind. My parents, they'd been married 64 years now I think this year. And so, you know, I knew it was É was a deep commitment. 

And so as Mike and I were dating seriously I would say it was still even a good year, I would think. And this is gonna sound crazy, but I would think of the old Elvis Presley song I Can't Help Falling in Love With You. I always liked the song, but there's a line that kind of resonated with me that says, you know, ÒTake my hand, take my whole life too, for I can't help falling in love with you.Ó And that's what I would think of like, like, am I ready to do that? Am I ready to say, you know, ÒTake my whole life too.Ó 

And that took awhile for me to get to that point, even though I like, knew and felt he was the one. right? I wasn't in a place where I would say I was ready to say, ÒOkay, we're ready to get married.Ó 

Lauren: I'm curious then what finally made you take the final step of thinking, ÒYes, you know, I am ready for the whole life too.Ó

Erin: I think it was time, you know? I think we officially dated for about three and a half years before we got engaged. So I would say it was just, you know, the É the kind of day in and day out of building that relationship in that way, you know, over time. And then say, ÒYeah, you know what? I am. I'm ready for thisÓ you know?

I think Mike was there before I was. He always acted from very early on that like, you know, you're the one kind of thing, and it was more a matter of the practical. You know, how do you É how do you build a life together? You know, like I said my health was still a factor. And, you know, we wanted to be able to buy a ring and just the practicalities of starting a life together.

I remember him saying specifically, you know, he wanted to be able to buy a ring. And, you know, we made a decision to save for the ring together, and I was totally okay with that. In fact, I would say I was happy with that because I felt like, you know, the ring was going to represent our life together. Why should that just be on one person in the relationship? I liked the idea of working together for something that was going to represent our life together. 

You know, obviously we were working and saving together for it. We went to New York to the diamond district to kind of shop. So we actually É we bought the ring together in stages, but he was adamant that it was up to him to decide how and when he was going to propose. So I knew he had the ring. And I just didn't É I was like, ÒYou better not make me wait, you know, a long time here. This is just cruel.Ó So he was good. It was just a couple of weeks I think after. 

He proposed on the one day I didn't see it coming. Because like I said É remember, I knew he had the ring. So it was, it was April Fool's Day. And he had suggested we go to dinner. So it was a Friday. And I kind of thought, ÒWas he gonna do this then? Naa, itÕs April Fool's. Oh, he wouldn't be that cruel, you know?Ó kind of thing. But what I had forgotten was that it was also his mother's birthday. And so yeah, that's É that's when he finally did it. 

Lauren: Was there anything unique about the proposal? I'm just curious.

Erin: He put the ring, which was in a green box, in my salad. So he kept waiting for that like ÒAha!Ó moment where I realized like, like I said, I it wasn't coming. So finally he was like, ÒWhat É whatÕs wrong with you?Ó Because I kept É there was no dressing on the salad and I kept saying like, ÒThis is really dry!Ó

Anyway, he finally was like, ÒDo you want to look in the salad and see what ...Ó So, and then he, you know, got down on one knee and asked me to be his wife.

What was funny is when we went to dinner at the restaurant É it was probably the first nice restaurant I'd ever been to. And what was funny is that they told us afterwards, you know, after he had popped the question, and obviously I said yes, the staff came out and they were like, ÒWe're so relieved because the last three people who proposed here she said, ÔNoÕ!Ó We broke the streak, you know!

Lauren: Oh my gosh!

Erin: So itÕs funny!

Lauren: I remember you telling me this story. And I remember you talking about the dry salad!
After the proposal and after him surprising you on April Fool's Day and all of that, what was the first thing that you thought you know, that's where we should start with the planning beyond the ring. Obviously, that was sort of the first thing. But for the actual event, what was the first thing that you started planning for?

Erin: So we had planned to get married in May of the following year. So then I think it was figuring out where were we going to get married. Part of the challenge, I'll say was Mike's Catholic and IÕm technically Protestant and so we were trying to find a way to honor both of our respective faiths. 

And since my family was largely from Hunterdon County, we were looking to have it there, you know, and area churches they were hesitant for the large part that either we weren't members of that particular church. Or you know, we had asked about, you know, bringing in a priest to like, say a blessing, that kind of thing. And we were met with a lot of closed doors. So that was probably the biggest thing, you know, to find. 

Shortly after Mike proposed my dad was diagnosed with prostate cancer in a very advanced and aggressive form of it. He was actually given a terminal diagnosis. So we had planned to have the wedding more than a year after Mike proposed. And, you know, we were told without question, my dad wasn't gonna live that long. So if we wanted my dad to be a part of it you know, we had to move the wedding up.

And so, you know, it was literally I had the dress at that point, we had booked the church, we had booked the reception venue. So we started with the reception venue and said, ÒYou know, do you have any openings?Ó And then the only opening they had was two weeks away.

I was with my mom and my sister at that point, and I was trying to get a hold of Mike and I couldn't get a hold of him. And so at some point, you got to make the decision. It's you know, it's kind of on the spot going to do this or not. And I said ÒAlright, we're gonna do it.Ó you know, because the other choice was not to have my dad be a part of it, which was unthinkable really at the time. And so we did, we said, ÒAlright we're going to do it.Ó It worked for the church.

So Mike and I had planned to meet up after, you know, I had dinner with my family, and, you know, just just meet up and talk before, you know, going to our separate houses. And we were meeting at Barnes and Nobles. And so, you know, I told him my, you know, or something. I'm like, ÒBrace yourself for this. We're getting married a whole lot sooner. You're thinking we're gonna have, you know, another eight months from now, but nope, we got two weeks.Ó 

And I will never forget this. This is one of the reasons I love Mike the way I do. He didn't miss a beat. And he looked at me and he smiled and he said, ÒI always said I'd marry you tomorrow and now I get the chance. I'm really lucky.Ó

Lauren: Absolutely! And sort of shifting into the dress and how you started looking for that, I want to hear about what your dress looked like and the process of you choosing it, but I'm curious if the venue had any bearing on what you decided for your dress. Was that in your mind?

Erin: I think the only thing was more É I had kind of envisioned for my dress having some kind of sleeve, right, even a short sleeve or whatever. And that was that was a challenge because at least at the time that very much was not in style. Everything was sleeveless. But other than that, not really.

The challenge was to find a bridal shop that had any kind of a decent stock, but also stock that I could actually try on. Because most that we were seeing only carried like a sample size six and that was it. And I am not a sample size six girl. My mom had expressed that she wanted to, buy my dress. 

One shop actually, the cheapest price that they had was, I want to say about $2,000 and I couldn't try anything on. And they wouldn't order it so that you could try it on unless you put $1,000 down and agreed that you were going to buy it. And I'm going ÒHow can you expect me to agree to buy it when I haven't seen what it's going to look like on me?Ó And theyÕd point to this sample size six and ÒWhy don't you just hold that up next to you and imagine what it's gonna look like?Ó ÒAre you kidding me?Ó So we just left there!

Lauren: Then what happened when you finally did go somewhere where you found something?

Erin: It was a totally different kind of shop. Loved, loved, loved the shop! The first you know, I went in kind of expecting the, the way I had been treated up until this point. And, you know, the É the person who was my consultant stopped me and she said, ÒWell, we'll get to that.Ó You know, I started to try to show her the printouts of you know, some of the dresses I've issues ÒWeÕll get to that. I just want to know about you.Ó

 She goes ÒLet's just talk like what, what are you? What do you you know, ÉÓ she's asking me about my job and ÒWhat do you like to do for fun and what É you know, tell me about you know, your fiance and how would it É how do you envision your wedding?Ó Finding out really about, you know who I am and what I liked and what, you know, I imagined. I would say they spent a good 20 minutes to half an hour, just with that. Just talking to me, like I was a real person with ideas that mattered. That was the first thing. 

They did not want you to go through the shop looking at different things and saying, I want to pull this, I'm going to try this, I want to try that she would say, ÒGive me an idea of what you like, what you're kind of imagining. I'm going to go pull three dresses. And with each dress, we're going to try it on and you're going to tell me what you like about this dress and what do you not like about this dress, And then I'm going to go pull three more dresses, and we're going to do the same thing all the way through.Ó 

And that was just a totally different way of doing things. And so the dress I ended up with was actually totally different then what I had been imagining and putting in my little digital scrapbooks. And I never would have pulled that dress you know or asked to try it on. So it was really neat.

Lauren: So could you describe your initial vision and then can you describe what you ended up with?

Erin: I just, I wanted É I wanted to feel pretty, you know? Something that worked with me and my body and not something that I had to change or be forced into something in order for that dress to fit me, you know what I mean?  And I don't mean just physically fit, I mean suit me personally.

I had imagined you know more of a probably white or ivory dress. I thought more lace É like they said something with like a cap or short sleeve. I didn't think like total ballgown nor did I think more of like what I would imagine a you know 1940s Hollywood starlet kind of silk dress. Neither of those two, you know, and just probably something in between.

My mom had gotten married when she was 18 and I knew that she had hated her dress. Her dress had really been forced on her. It was not what she wanted. She had wanted like an off- white dress, she had really fallen for an off-white dress. And she was told that was not allowed because, you know, that would make people question her virginity. It had to be white. And so she hated her dress. 

What she remembered was being told, you know that she was too fat, that she needed to lose weight. So she had hated her dress to the point that she said that she had burned it, right? She just hated it that much. And it was hard to imagine like that level of loathing that you would burn it. 

And that had been what every one of my family had known or thought up until my niece Molly, who was 10 at the time, she and a couple of her cousins had been watching that TV show Cash in the Attic where like you find antiques or whatever that you know, you don't even think of and you can cash out and make some money. And so they had asked my parents if they could search the attic of this old farmhouse looking for you know, something they could hock to make money in their mind. And my niece Molly found this dress and it turns out it was my mom's wedding dress that she had not burned.

And she believed it herself because she was shocked, you know? And she didn't believe it was her dress until we pulled the album and showed the pic É ÒYeah, this is your dress. This is you in this dress.Ó And, you know, to the idea that, you know, they had told her she was É she was too fat, this dress, the only one who could zip it up was my niece Molly and she was 10, okay? So my mom was the size of a 10 year old when she had this dress. 

So I say all that because my mom had been so upset that this is what, you know, she had been forced into and what her experience had been. Come to my wedding and my wedding dress, I went through the same thing with her. 

You know white doesn't look good on me. But this dress was even more É they called it obviously like É almost a cappuccino. And why that worked with this particular dress was because it had panels on it that were that lighter ivory which is embroidery. And that kind of cappuccino color just set off the embroidery really pretty and it worked for me. And yet I ran into the same thing with my parents of ÒThis is not a white wedding dress, therefore it's not appropriate.Ò

And I remember having a conversation with my mom and saying, like, ÒWhy are you so concerned about this? What are you afraid of?Ó And she said, ÒI'm afraid people won't think that it's a wedding and that you know youÕre here to get married.Ó And I'm like ÒNot to you know delegitimize your concerns but we're going to be in a church, people are going to have invitations saying the wedding of Erin and Mike, we're going to be in front of the minister making vows. Where do you think people are going to be confused and think this is not a wedding?Ó IÕm just not following that!

She and my father went back to this wedding shop and they spent two hours looking at this dress in every possible kind of light. The dress also did come in like a lighter, slightly off white, but it didn't have anywhere near the impact because you couldn't see the embroidery and you couldn't see what went into it. And I just kept thinking, like, I can't believe my mother's horrible experience that like scarred her emotionally. And 50 years later, we're having the same argument!Ó

Lauren: ThatÕs such a fascinating thing to think about that not only did she not burn it, even though she'd convinced herself that she had burned and told everyone, she even reflected that for you. But not only that, you chose what you wanted. Even though your your parents sat in the shop for two hours you still chose it. It's still something that you wanted to reflect. Once your, you know, the two hour evaluation of your selection had been agreed upon É 

Erin: Which was weeks later, by the way. I was on É I was on pins and needles that whole time but anyway, go ahead. Sorry.

Lauren: No that that's good to know. So weeks later, you finally have the approval, what was your emotion É like what was the first thing that you thought when that happened. Just emotionally where were you?

Erin: Relief at that point, because in my head, this was my dress, you know, I tend to be, you know, analytical. I didn't expect the process to be as emotional as it was, you know? And as, you know, we had been systematically going through these dresses which suited an analytical person like me, so like this, about this and not about that, and we'll try to find something that, you know, combines that, I mean, that was like perfect for me.

There were a number of dresses that I liked a lot before that, that would have worked and I would have, you know, probably been pretty happy with. But once I landed like, once I tried this dress on it, just wipes those other ones out. I didn't want to take it off. Like, I did not want to get dressed back in my street clothes again because I, you know, you felt like Cinderella at midnight that, you know, it was all going back. That was a total surprise for me. 

And so in my head like this was the dress. And so to to my reaction, you know, emotionally at that point when my dad finally come out, ÒOkay, yes, you can do this, this will be appropriateÓ was relief!

Lauren: So you had a logical approach to this, but you ended up having an emotional decision to that. And do you have any thoughts on why maybe that happens, or why it happened to you specifically?

Erin: I think part of it was surprise because it was different than kind of what I had imagined.
I never expected to feel that way. I think I said earlier that I kind of had wanted something that I thought, you know, made me look pretty. And with this dress, like I said, I felt like Cinderella, you know? And I didn't want to take it off. 

So I wasn't expecting that kind of emotional reaction. And then I would even say further like, after the wedding I was thinking like, ÒWell, is there an occasion that I can wear this again, to, you know, because I liked it so much? How soon can I do like the vow renewal ceremony or something where I have an excuse to do something like this again!Ó

Lauren: You say that you felt like it was unexpected -- your dress -- and it sort of spoke to you in that way as a personality. Do you think that parallels a little bit of the unexpected fact that you met Mike? Because you know, you were on a specific track of becoming a doctor and you had sort of a life plan. Not that Mike couldn't be a part of that life plan, but he was also sort of unexpected. Do you think that parallels?

Erin: Yeah! Oh, definitely. Definitely. Yeah. And I think, you know, like, I've talked about the embroidery on it. The embroidery was on the under panel of pleats so it wasn't obvious at first. It was something that revealed itself as you moved, you know, or in different lights. It was something that you kind of had to take in to realize the beauty of it. And I think that appealed to me as well. I can kind of be like that, you know?

Lauren: The beauty was in its depth, or in its hidden nature almost.

Erin: Right.

Lauren: It wasn't something that you would pass and it's not gaudy or glittery, but something that you É

Erin: Right, right, right.

Lauren: I think most things, the most beautiful things tend to do that, honestly. So IÕm curious moving forward did you share your dress with Mike or was it was it sort of going to be a reveal? And É yeah, yes, it was a reveal?

Erin: Reveal. Yeah. It was as I was coming down the aisle. He had no idea prior to that. I also had a long veil that kind of came down over it. And part of his reaction, right, when, you know, I'm walking towards him with my father, and when we got to where he could say something and I could hear him, he was almost babbling. You know, he was like, ÒOh, you look so beautiful. I love your veil!Ó Then heÕd say it again. ÒYou just look so beautiful!Ó So it was really sweet. It was É I don't think I could have hoped for anything better!

The way I had my pictures done, I just got the proofs. I didn't have anything in an album or anything presented or anything like that. And so I was going through several hundred proofs weeks after the wedding and I'm realizing É and I only realized it because of the expression on his face that this is when he saw me coming down the aisle. And so that was kind of neat. 

Lauren: Do you think that wearing the dress that clearly you love, do you think that contributed? Walking down the aisle for either him or for you just for like the confidence of doing that whole entire process of displaying yourself for family, friends and also for your husband to be?

Erin: I think you hit on a really interesting point. I don't like to be in the spotlight. And you know, as the bride, there's kind of no two ways around it. We had wanted, or initially planned on, you know, a pretty small wedding and that list kept growing. And the higher the numbers got, the more my anxiety was kind of ratcheting up. 

Because you're right, you know, Lauren, the whole process is, is very vulnerable. And then here you are putting yourself out there and you know everybody is critiquing you. But feeling good about the dress and how you look goes a long way to help with that process.

And I, I think to typify that, when my mom and I É we were going back to the bridal shop, like this was like two days before the wedding, we weren't actually picking up the dress, but we were in the bowels of the shop right where all the real work gets done and you know, not the storefront. And we were like É I think we were inspecting it.

And the owner of the shop happened to be back there and she comes over É I we had not met her before or anything like that. And she was commenting on the dress and you know, just well wishes and stuff before the wedding. And she said something like, you know ÒYour daughter, you know, this will just be beautiful on your daughter.Ó And my mom said something like ÒOh, do you think so? You know, we really weren't sure because the color is not white.Ó SheÕs still hung up on the not white thing, right?

And the owner, she said ÒIf I had my pick of any model to model this dress at any of the shows I do across the country, I could not find someone better suited to this dress than your daughter. This was the dress that was made for your daughter.Ó

And it was just such a nice É whether it was you know, part of the whole salesmanship thing or not, it was just such a nice thing to say, and again gives you that confidence that obviously I remember it 15 years later. 

Lauren: Absolutely! After the wedding clearly you said you wanted to keep it on. You wanted to wear it again. Have you worn it again and do you still have it now?

Erin: No, I have not worn it again and yes I still have it. We live in the house that Mike grew up in and that he inherited after his parents passed away. And as we were going through a lot of the belongings and whatnot because his mother had died before his father, there wasn't a lot of his motherÕs stuff around. But we kind of, to our surprise, found her wedding dress. And it was a very simple ivory velvet with a little bit of lace trim around the neckline. 

And, you know, a wedding dress takes up considerable space and this É it's a small, you know, house. So we're trying to think of like, what can we do? We're not getting rid of it, but how do we kind of find a way to honor and respect his mom and obviously what this dress meant to her to have kept it all these years.

And one of the things we talked about doing was having it made into like a teddy bear, which I think the velvet is perfectly suited for, that if we had children that we could then you know, pass that on. His dad had also been a fireman and had these very thick flannel shirts as part of his uniform and we thought of doing the same thing with those that there would be something of Mike's parents, you know, should we have children. 

And so while I thought that was a great idea, and I still do, you know, I looked at Mike and I said ÒDon't get any ideas about my wedding dress. I'm not, I'm not there yet. Okay, I'm not there yet!Ó 

Lauren: Looking back on this whole process of you know, I know it was 15 years ago and I know that there's a lot to like sort of dig up all these years later, do you feel like you learned anything about yourself through that?

So this whole highly accelerated wedding process was coming at me like a train, trying to get everything together in in two and a half weeks. You know, Mike was just starting to try to get the house together. I had to get out of my apartment, had to you know, move had to get É all the details of the wedding. And, you know, during this process I really hadn't been anxious before this, but now I was really finding that, you know, I'd see people go, ÒYou're getting married two weeks!Ó And I'd be like, ÒI'm getting married in two weeks. Oh my goodness!Ó you know?

And I remember sitting in my car getting out of work one day, and actually kind of praying being like, ÒLord, I feel like other people are more excited about my wedding than I am. You know, and that's not how I want it to be.Ó 

And I really kind of had this moment of clarity where I thought ÒWhat do we really need for this to happen?Ó Well, obviously Mike and I need to be there, we need someone who is legally capable of marrying us, and we need those that we love with us. Everything else is gravy. It's a bonus, you know? And if I held on to that I had so much peace. 

And I can't tell you the number of things that went wrong from, you know, the flowers were wrong and the photographer got Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever the night before the wedding. That was the one that that really rattled me because I didn't know if these were going to be the last pictures I'd have with my dad, you know? There was a car fire in our yard as we were taking pictures, just É there's so many things that went wrong and none of it mattered. None of it mattered at all. 

And so I still to this day take that kind of with me if I'm in a situation that's really overwhelming. I will, you know, make myself stop and think ÒOkay, what is the absolute need that we have to make this happenÓ you know? And so long as we have that then the rest really doesn't matter. It's a bonus. 

So the day after our wedding, my dad flew to Georgia to a specialist facility where he had surgery and then actually lived there for three or four months where they did daily radiation with him and it saved his life. Which you know, again here we are 15 years later and we still have my dad with us.

Lauren: You got É you got me I was like about to cry. So I think É

Erin: Oh, I didn't mean that. 

Lauren: No, no, it's É I, I think that's so honest and honest É not just honest but a brave thing to think about.  And maybe this is me maybe projecting but I think to be able to say, you know, all I need are these essential things, and I'm going to be okay and get through it, that's super brave to say. 

And I know it doesn't sound brave, but you know, your wedding is a hyped-up social event that people have put a lot of expectation on, and to have all of those things -- really, really difficult things that no one should have to go through -- and yet you were going through them, to be able to walk through that and say, ÒYou know, all I need are these few things and I can get through itÓ that's É that's probably one of the most impressive things I've heard in a really long time.

Erin: Well, thank you, I think You flatter me but thank you.

Lauren: And that's grace. Sort of circling back a little bit to your outfit because that's the heart of what we are talking about at the end of the day when it comes to the podcast, do you think that there is a mystique around finding a dress in order to have a successful wedding? And if there is a mystique, how would you define it if you could?

Erin: That's a tough one. That really is. I think for me, you know, obviously, I'm lucky. I found the dress I felt wonderful in. But I would also say that it was gravy, you know what I mean? If I had not found that dress, I think that I would still think back very favorably, you know, about my wedding.

I think there definitely is a mystique but itÕs very hard to quantify, or qualify is probably a better adjective. And I É I think there's a very real mystique, but there's also a lot of hype about it that kind of I think when you really find it and you hit it on the head, that that other stuff kind of fades away.