Thinking 168
[00:00:00] Sam: Hi everyone. today , I'm talking to Matthew Klippenstein. Matthew is a very interesting fellow. We, we've known each other for a few years and worked on a couple of projects together and have some cool stuff in the works. But, he was a friend of the show back in the day, when we were doing some like the Bible bracket challenge and all that kind of stuff.
[00:00:18]so reached out and we've just become kind of, compadres over the last few, few years. And. we, we have these really fascinating email chains and Matthew has been on the show before, but I wanted to get him on to talk kind of more about like what he does with his studies and his, his writings about, electric vehicles and clean tech and clean energy and climate tech and, and these terms that are becoming everyday terms because of people like Elon Musk, and because of the climate crisis.
[00:00:46] And also how that impacts business and, and what we're doing kind of as a corporate culture. So as always with Matthew, we, we dip into some esoteric topics like religion and religiosity and a pandemic and clothing choices and [00:01:00] how we have base tenants. Are they 60 fun stuff? they did a great show.
[00:01:04] Matthew is a really interesting guy. It's got a newsletter. You should subscribe to. It's all about how Tesla is, is the devil basically. so it's kind of kind of fun. Reading is it's changed my perspective a lot on, on some of those topics. you can also follow him on Twitter. There's a link down in the show notes.
[00:01:19]always tweeting some interesting stuff, whether you're into the stats and trying to understand the electric vehicle and clean energy, sector. We're just wanting to follow somebody. Who's got just a really unique outlook on the world, highly suggest. So here's a quick interview. It's not quick. It's about 45 minutes long with, with Matthew.
[00:01:37] And, we, we hop right in talking about messaging and messaging clients. So hope you enjoy. 
[00:01:43] Matthew: Well, they were a few years younger than me. And they were like, Oh yeah, this is like 96 or something. And I was, I hung out with him a little bit and I thought, well, this isn't, I don't know what does this add to my life?
[00:01:54] Sam: So I didn't really,
[00:02:00] [00:01:59] yeah. I used, I could still recite my number until a couple of years ago when I had kids. But, yeah, that was a big ICQ person, but I, I did a lot of business with, You know, people marketing folks up in, was it new Brunswick or, or, somewhere, up North and they were big into Microsoft messenger.
[00:02:19] Oh, yeah, there's been, there were always like, yeah, this is what we use in Canada. Like no one uses aim here and now some really don't use it. I am like, that's what everybody uses here. Yeah. Yeah. And, cause I wasn't, I graduated college in 2000. And we got high-speed fiber in 98, 99. Yeah. We have the first, first areas around here, 90 days, I think we're there.
[00:02:43] Yeah. And it was right. So, you know, all of a sudden everyone's computer in their dorm room was attached to a particular line instead of us having to dial in to eight AOL or whatever, and take up the phone lines. So then. Everyone started using [00:03:00] aim on campus and it like radically transformed just the social scene of campus, you know, and all of a sudden people weren't calling each other or whatever.
[00:03:08] It was like almost overnight, you know, the other college kids started using I am. Right. Yeah. I saw a funny tweet this morning when Slack was down. Okay. Yeah, I saw, I saw it was trending on Twitter, so I was like Monday mornings of all time. Mm, after the holidays. Yeah. That's our internal messaging system again, cause we're distributed.
[00:03:30] So between me and Mariana and contractors and even some of our clients are on it and then I've got our co-working group that I'm a part of here. They use it. And so, you know, we're dialed in there and anyway, it's a big, you know, Hassle when it gets down. Plus we have, we have everything like our invoicing system and our to do lists and our CRM and everything ties into Slack as well.
[00:03:54] So you don't really have to leave Slack to get notifications or to interact with those services. [00:04:00] So it's like, Oh, now I've got to go open up Stripe and do this and this and this, because I can't just, you know, do a backslash in Slack and, and get it done. But yeah, someone said, You know, people are talking about aim and kind of the history of social media.
[00:04:12] And they said, yeah, you know, the changing your. away message and aim to like a moody grunge song was the original sub tweet of someone, you know? Cause like you would put like some lyrics
[00:04:29] Oh, okay. Are they talking about me? So it's like a nice stuff to eat anyway. How are you? I've been okay. yourselves, like I guess one question is like, How has, how have religious gatherings been affected in your part of the world? Cause we're not supposed to do it over here, but then I was never really one to do that.
[00:04:46] So I didn't really notice, but I know you're missing out on that experience.
[00:04:54] We traditionally, under normal times, we would have kind of a [00:05:00] more concerted federal, federal approach to all of this. Right. But because we're living thankfully, hopefully at the end of this period of American politics, all, all of the responses since last January, February, Have been very local, you know, so maybe the eight we'll give you God in South Carolina does nothing.
[00:05:21] It's like basically up to each zip code. so it, you know, you can get to one town and there's a mask mandate. You get to another town and it's like, totally, you know, everything's open restaurants are open, you know, there's no. Yeah. I saw somewhere that like, I dunno, like the Kansas city Royals had to play in an empty stadium, but the chiefs or something like we're allowed, you know, their stadiums, like a few blocks over, but it's in a different jurisdiction and they were allowed to have fans or something, some crazy dichotomy like that, or like the Rose bowl is, you know, it's a big, new year's day football game here.
[00:05:52] And it's always at the Rose bowl in Pasadena, in California, but. Yeah. All fornia said no. So the Rose bowl was held in Arlington, Texas at the cowboy [00:06:00] stadium for the first time and you know, a hundred years it was outside of Pasadena. yeah, there's a lot of sports stuff is like moved around where like, you know, the Toronto blue Jays because of travel restrictions.
[00:06:10] Right? Yeah. Everyone worked playing out here. Yeah. It's, you know, there's been that, where it's kind of like, depending on what city you live in effectively, but for the religious side, I'd say for the most part, most mainstream denominations and congregations are still doing virtual or either there's, you know, the pastor or the staff will go in on like a Wednesday and do the recording and then livestream that on Sunday.
[00:06:39] So there's a lot of that. Or, or, you know, just the pastor going in on a Sunday and live streaming from the, from the, Congregation meeting, but yes, I guess the, the, the people who don't follow instructions will say that they're, you know, being persecuted and have to meet in secret, like the original Christians in the Capitol, it gives way to lots of good metaphors and [00:07:00] sermons about
[00:07:02] It's like, it's like, it's not the fountain of youth. It's a. Yeah, it's an infinite gold mine that you can find any illusion you want. Exactly, exactly. But
[00:07:16] we still have lots and lots of congregations that are there that are meeting in person, especially, you know, rural towns where people feel kind of impervious or, you know, even some of the bigger, more evangelical leaning churches here. Right. and you know, they'll say that they have restrictions, but you know, when you see the live stream, It's like, gosh, there's all these people standing there.
[00:07:36] You know, some were wearing masks, some aren't there's no real distancing. Hmm. Yeah. I guess one thing is that, you know, not that I should be too judgemental or anything because we have schools going on and realistically, you know, if you're going to complain about a bunch of people gathering once a week, maybe twice a week or whatever, depending on your.
[00:07:55] Affiliation, or, you know, for Bible study, then kids meeting five days a week. [00:08:00] That's a remarkable, yeah, we're still kind of in a hybrid mode, even in South Carolina where, and again, this is our school districts. Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. So, you're right, because our high school kids are basically largely remote learning.
[00:08:16] Yep. Yeah. There's some activities that go in for, I guess, cause I know one of my friends was telling me that his daughter was, I was supposed to do a, a zoom physical ed class. So like they were all supposed to do jumping jacks or whatever, just to kind of imprint mildly impractical. Well, you know, it's something out of dark mirror, you know, where it's like, you know, this weird dystopian feature where kids are doing jumping jacks via video chat.
[00:08:43] Yeah. but yeah, so we're, I mean, we're still kind of hybrid for the most part. I mean, again, depends on the, down to the district. So here in Columbia, we're a town of about 300,350,000 metropolitan. you know, and then, so we have, I think four big school districts [00:09:00] and each one of those have different rules.
[00:09:02] So if you live in this part of town and your kid might be going in three days a week, if you live over here, you might have five days a week. And if you over here, you might have all virtual. So it really, really depends. but yeah, the most work places here are. Pretty much not back to normal, but working virtually is not as common as it was last spring.
[00:09:21] For sure. so we'll see. I mean, I'm, I'm hopeful, you know, with the new administration that will get a little more. Sort of federal cooperation. They might win Georgia, which would be an amazing, almost the Knox Christmas gift from the rest. Got good, good epiphany. the last Christmas there and, and it's funny, we, we, speaking of that, we still celebrate, you know, both Mariana and I have our religious studies background.
[00:09:46] So we, we celebrate Christmas on January the sixth. yeah, we, I mean, we still do, you know, Santa and that kind of stuff because we're not going to make Santa come all the way back. Right for the five-year-old. But, yeah, so like our big, you know, kind of [00:10:00] family Christmas dinner, and when we finally take the tree down and all the decorations, but, you know, we, we like the whole real 12 days of Christmas thing.
[00:10:07] That's, you know, the 25th. So yeah. So we're, we kind of treat it like Hanukkah, or you can stay as another room semester. Is it, is it Saturnalia which was like 10 days or something? Yeah, it depends on the year. some days it was. You know, a full like two and a half weeks and some days it was 10 days, depending on the lunar calendar and how that interacted with the solar calendar, especially, the Julian calendar came in, but yeah.
[00:10:36] How like the Chinese who had figured out the whole 365 and a quarter days per year, you know, so long ago were like, actually just, no, I guess by the time the Europeans came in, and kind of a, you know, forcibly opened up China, they were on the standard. Yeah, quick Orian slash Julian, Julian, or Grigorian calendars.
[00:10:56] But anyway, it's just remarkable to me, how many [00:11:00] societies were like, well, we can't really figure out the number of days of the year, but we're going to conquer the world. Right. Or, you know, I always love to think about, you know, cause my other background is in Mesopotamian and the Syrian Babylonian stuff.
[00:11:12] Right. And for me, the, the amazing, descriptions in Canada form of. Okay, the moon does this and the six planets are doing this. So instead of counting things by 10, we're going to use base six. So that's why there are 360 degrees in a circle. And there are six weeks where this period and, you know, everything was much more on the lunar scale, winter cycle, and you know, fertility and all sorts of things tie into that.
[00:11:40] Of course. And you know, the idea that. You know, those societies where we're both civilizations were using just a whole different, like understanding of cyclical time in a way that we can't fathom, but we're still being incredibly productive. You know, it's one of those things where I'm like, you know, if, if someone were [00:12:00] to pick you up and go drop you off at ancient Suma or, or a Cod.
[00:12:04] Well, you know, for the most part you could figure some things out, but just the conception of time and, and passing, I think would really be the part that freaks out monitoring. I guess we, we think everyone has experienced the world the same way we do. And you know, the whole passage of time stuff is, can really mess with your head.
[00:12:21] So I think it's hard for us to read back into that understanding of the world, which I actually prefer it, which we still do that. I think it's a cool model. Right. Cool. I dunno, on, on the topic of, sorry, there was like, I was going to refund something there, but, it was like, did you want to start recording now?
[00:12:36] Cause there's some pretty good golden here or a new recording last couple minutes. Fantastic. Great. Okay. Yeah. All right. Yeah. So like on the basic stuff, see, now I had, my understanding was like, if you hold your poem, towards your face, like, so you, so the, I don't know. You think your nails are facing away from you at some point to the 12 [00:13:00] little joints on your finger, like 300 each of your fingers, which I get 12, right?
[00:13:05] And then if you put it on your other hand, then you have five digits. So like 12, we can count to 12 on the one hand and then count the twelves on the other hand, by counting your fingers, which would give you the 60. So I thought that was the, that was the, the way that you would get to a, like a 360 degree circle.
[00:13:21] That's true also. Yeah. Yeah. And it was tied back into the lunar cycle as well, but yeah, even in Egypt, that was, you know, four, I think. Middle kingdom into new kingdom. I'm not sure about old kingdom, a common way to count and do that basics type stuff, or count by six. even like units of measurement of course, were that.
[00:13:40] So, you know, 12 inches still kind of lingers with us. Yeah, yeah. Right. in French it's a push it's like a thumb. Yep, exactly, exactly. Parker, the joint of the other thumb, right. Yep. Exactly. And, and, you know, if you think about it, it's kind of a neat way to do counting. So when, we go camping a lot, especially [00:14:00] now, cause it's, can't really do much.
[00:14:02] We're still homeschooling our five-year-old. our, our older daughters are in hybrid school, but, the five-year-old's here with us all day and, and, you know, we, we just have to do something besides. Play dates, now, so we do a lot of camping and you know, every couple of weekends we'll, we'll go out and stay somewhere.
[00:14:20] So I was out with him the other day. The other week. And I was basically teaching them that cause we were counting up sticks for the fire or something. I was like, okay, here's a little cool way to count that people used to do, you know, a long, long time ago. and he totally got it like right away. It was very intuitive for him.
[00:14:34] So he, he gets around now and like counts his leg is using. So he's going to be a Sumerian or Egypt one day counting methodology. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, don't get with your fingers. And it's like, no, no, this is, I'm not dealing with, you know, Anyway. It's yeah, it's kinda cool. I love that kind of history of ideas, grandiose stuff.
[00:14:56] I know it's kind of passe, a lot of circles as it should [00:15:00] be, because it is Western dominated by, you know, heterodoxy of white male understanding, you know, the passages of the centuries, but I'm pastoral. So love that kind of medical history and learning more about that. I think it's useful to know kind of where you're, where things come from.
[00:15:19] So, yeah. the history of ideas, I guess you would say. Yeah. Like what, what crazy a precursor caused us to wind up in this direction? Like, like, the us has a pretty impotent precedent in terms of like legislating ability, although that has changed in recent decades. And it's like, well, why would you have that?
[00:15:36] Well, people didn't like a game and it wasn't James Madison, I think came up with separation of powers there. It's like, well, we're going to make sure that no one person has all the power or has executives. Much executive power. So it's like, you can, you can kind of see the, the, the subtle things that cause, you know, over time, big changes, I guess, over time, any change becomes a big one.
[00:15:56] Yeah, exactly. Well, and you know, now, [00:16:00] especially with our election debacle, there's as an example, you know, there's lots of interesting ways that people are using. You know, quote the founding fathers or, you know, weird, election laws in the 1870s to justify a certain position. So like Ted Cruz, this weekend put out a statement about how he's going to contest the election certification results in January 6th on Wednesday.
[00:16:24] And he was using, we're citing a case, that South Carolina had brought in, I think, 1877. But the, the issue was, it was basically the white, wealthy folks trying to take back the state after reconstruction, because during reconstruction we had, after the civil war, we had, black legislature overwhelmingly and our, our representatives to the house were were, but I guess in this case, African-Americans, you know, newly freed people and.
[00:16:52] Basically like South Carolina was got this case to the Supreme court to like change some election stuff, to help these wealthy white minority or [00:17:00] minority power types get power back. and, and still today, you know, South Carolina is a. Largely, I mean, white people are in the minority here, but if you look at our state house, you wouldn't see that.
[00:17:10]so South Carolina is majority non-Caucasian. Let me make sure I know. So where I grew up, I grew up in a very rural part of the state, down to the coast and were there were plantations and out of our graduating class, there were about 180 people, I think, about 150 or were black and 30 something worldwide.
[00:17:31] So, and that was, I think it's like 75, 80% in my little hometown, but I think South Carolina is pretty close, demographic race. Let's see, we just had our census this year. So yeah. You guys do it like every 10 years. I guess we do this as well. Yeah. It was announced that with COVID and everything. I'm not excited.
[00:17:54] Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. So sophomore just general populate. And this is I think because of the upstate. which is [00:18:00] Greenville kind of up near the mountains, very white part of the state in some ways at 63% is, is, not Hispanic, white. And then around 3% is black. But yeah, if you get into the lower part of the state, it's, it's very black and, and that's why we, we always call South Carolina like a, a state with three parts, you know, like three.
[00:18:21] Yeah, I guess, I guess that is probably true in many, many States because you'll always have an urban, rural divide. I was just looking at the stats on demographics here in British Columbia, Canada. So right now, European origin people are two thirds. but by 2036, it's expected that the European origin folks will be 51%.
[00:18:41] So it's, now, and it's, it is of course, ethnicities from around the world in some ways, right. I think it starts to, it helps by starting off with a really small population of, of, of Westerners. I guess. I understand my understanding is that, before [00:19:00] Westerners arrived, there was a, a very large, first nations or native American population check smallpox and other diseases.
[00:19:06]Got them. but yeah, so, interesting. I didn't, I didn't realize that BC was actually heading that way. We do have one, one city, which is famously in majority minority, I guess you'd say here, which is a three Richmond BC, but it's the whole province has had in that way. And that's, that's kind of nice, nice selection of cuisine at restaurants when they're allowed to open again.
[00:19:29] Right, right. Yeah. That's, I've got a friend in Seattle and that's what he always says is like, yeah, it's a great time to be a white guy in Seattle. Cause you know, we get to learn from all these other, cultures and, and you know, the, especially the food part. It's like, it's not, it's not just cheeseburgers and pizza anymore.
[00:19:43] It's it's, you know, wonderful. I think, diversity. Right. Oh, so here it says, ethnic origin by regional group here in British Columbia is about 18% East and South Eastern Asian origins. And I think, now cause Canada built its [00:20:00] transcontinental railroad transnational. Trans pan counter railroad, in order to bring British Columbia into Confederation.
[00:20:08] And actually we get a lot of Chinese immigrants came over and wound up doing the most dangerous work. But I think actually at the time, again, because there were so few, Westerners, white people in British Columbia, I think Chinese people represented about 20% of the population. This, this, this number excludes the many first nations people of whom Westerners didn't really know much.
[00:20:31]but it would be interesting if, like, you know, any complaints about all that, too many, you know, people of Oriental descent in this province. Technically, it's not even at the peak that it was at 150 years ago. The same as true for like San Francisco here. You know, it was a much higher percent of the population at one time was of Asian descent because yeah.
[00:20:53] Oh yes. They were all too smart to go up to the Klondike or Alaska for the gold rush and increase their [00:21:00] percentage further. Yeah. Like stupid young white guys go there and, you know, breed themselves. yeah, that's, that's really fascinating. and you know, it's, it's, it's one of those things, you know, you, you and I have talked about globalism and, and, you know, business and, and with our respective sectors of that, but like, it's one of the interesting things to me, is it.
[00:21:26] And in the midst of all the transformations we're going through, because I mean, we're, we're still very early in the information age. We're still very early in combating climate change. We're still very early in the electronic or electric vehicle, cycle that we're going to see in the coming years.
[00:21:40] So, you know, for me, it's like, We feel like we're at the peak of this radical change, where 20 years ago, you know, everyone knew how to write cursive. No one had a little Aachen computer and, you know, everyone had their little friend group. You know, 10, 15, 20 people who they knew really well, [00:22:00] who looked like them, which is maybe the same church or the same, you know, gathering as them.
[00:22:05] And it was a much more homogenous world that, that made sense on our monkey brains. So now with globalism and just kind of the rise of information technology and the way we're changing transportation and the way we're addressing climate change and thinking about that theologically or philosophically or technologically or economically, it, it.
[00:22:24] To me, it just feels like a fascinating time to be alive. And I'm glad I'm here for this. Cause this is a, as much as it absolutely is terrible. Sometimes like the last four years, we've at least here in the United States, we've been able to, really kind of see that the cusp of that. And hopefully you got dressings, like climate change and a proactive.
[00:22:42] Yeah. Oh yeah. I do appreciate that. The, that the. We live in an era now where the world is totally different. When I was like, I would have loved to be able to then send an email to like Wayne Gretzky, well, growing up, even if it was answered by his personal assistant, it never occurred to me. [00:23:00] Cause I didn't know his, his mailing address.
[00:23:01] So I was like, I can't write him a letter. Yeah. And you can just look that up on the internet, the internet, the, you know, I don't think we had the address of the hockey arenas or whatever. I would find out later, reading biographies that people would just like, right. Wayne, Gretzky, Canada. It would, it would naturally find its way there.
[00:23:18] Oh, that's so cool. It's like Santa Claus. Exactly. Exactly. That was amazing. but yeah, so, It is very much in flux, which isn't a guest previous parents. I'm sure they have their periods of flux as well. This is more global. This is truly global. And, just, just scrolling through this, BC demographics page.
[00:23:38] And so I think we will have a hidden interesting milestone, which will have consequences that will ripple out further as it happens. But in 2011, BC had 44%, no religious affiliation and 45% Christian affiliation. So that was th that was 10 years ago now. So I'm sure the non, the irreligion group, I guess that's how they're calling.
[00:23:59] It [00:24:00] is probably a majority majority at this point. And. I'm intellectually curious to see, you know, well, what happens there, like, I'm sure that for many people, you know, yoga classes or mindfulness groups might provide some of the community that they would otherwise have gotten from a religious service, which is, which is interesting to me because yoga is kind of a, , you know, one branch off of a, of a, of Hinduism and mindfulness is basically Buddhism or is.
[00:24:30] Elements of Buddhism evolved for a, for a secular world, you know, without, you know, supernatural claims and stuff like that. I need to find the article and send it to you. There's a red something. I think it was gonna be Atlantic a couple of months ago about the westernization of Buddhism in the 1950s and how radical that, that was to, to, you know, bring over this conception as Buddhism that.
[00:24:55] You know, if you're in Cambodia and you see this, you're like, that's not really what you're [00:25:00] what I mean, or yeah. I mean, yoga and its connections to, you know, yoga exercises and Hinduism. I know, I mean the Southern Baptist convention and, well, actually this was led by the Catholic church in 2003, I think, put out a statement.
[00:25:16] I forget the name of it, but basically saying new age principles, it was something about new age principles was in the title and how new, which principles were, were bad. And, and, you know, Christian shouldn't support them and you should be praying instead of doing yoga and, or practice practicing mindfulness and, you know, the, the teachings of.
[00:25:35] Gosh, there was something like something big at the time and kind of, meditation type stuff. You know how loud that is, contrapositive to, you know, real prayer because you're not, you know, acting in a relationship manner with God that prayer should be doing well. Anyway, so the Catholic church put this out and then the Southern Baptist church signed onto it.
[00:26:00] [00:25:59] So, my wife Mariana was. Very ardent Southern Baptist. And her dad is still a very, very involved there. And she, we were discussing this after I read that piece and I was like, yeah, you know, do you, do you remember all this? Because she was in high school at the time, about to go into college. And she said, yeah, you know, I, I remember kind of the.
[00:26:19] You know, you can't do yoga, you can't meditate. You know, you have to, if you're going to do that stuff, here's the alternative for Christians. You should be praying or you should be doing Christian yoga, which is basically just yet with that music. And, you know, there was all this sort of, You know, sort of Christianization of, of the cultural stuff that was taking off at the time here in the States, like adapting means for your community, right?
[00:26:42] Like, I do remember, walking into a, one of the local cathedrals here and, it was a physical in Angleton and, There's a little sign saying, you know, you know, get ready for your sun salutations on and yoga thing, but they, they spelled it S O N you know, with reference to Jesus. So it was like, [00:27:00] yes, this is exactly how, you know, ideas kind of get absorbed in a, in a, in a, Orthodox or an acceptable to the community ways.
[00:27:09] Just, it was just, I was like, wow, that's just brilliant. It's not a far leap to see how that. Can, you know, kind of give us like a, an understanding of how Saturnalia went to become Christmas or, you know, or, you know, why we have a Christmas tree in our den right now covered in light. Exactly. Yeah.
[00:27:27] Yeah. So, which, which draws money, but quite Northern Europe, I'm imagining. Yeah, I'm guessing that for or evergreen trees, aren't a feature in, either, the Lavant or, the Mediterranean. No, no, I mean, don't do the point where, We have all these great marriage covenants from, especially in Mesopotamia, but some from the Lavant, in Syria, especially, where her, if something happened to the couple or the, there was a widow or, or, you know, the man filed for divorce or whatever.
[00:27:56]one of the things that. I forgot. I forgot the term for [00:28:00] this. I need to go look it up, but it basically meant like you get the center beam of the house and it, it was kind of a metaphor for saying like, you get the bulk of the stuff. So you get all the, the 401k, well, whatever the center beam of the house being would have been very, very valuable, you know?
[00:28:18] So it was, it was, yeah, there weren't a lot of Christmas trees for marriage, but the baby Jesus underneath and, you know, hanging out with the sheep. but yeah, I think, it, it, again, Maryanne and I were talking about this the other night over dinner, there are a lot of parallels to what's going on here in the United States in terms of religiosity and, and kind of turning to spiritual practices or, you know, actual, you know, religious practices and comparing that to what happened in 1918, through 1920 with the Spanish flu.
[00:28:53] Which I, you know, came out of Kansas, but we call this the Spanish flu. and the idea that [00:29:00] people turn towards kind of a moralistic, You know, quote, father, God type Zeus in this guy, conception of religion, especially Christianity in times like this, where things are so uncertain and you know, one day the stock market is up 800 points.
[00:29:15] And the next day it's down a thousand points and you know, the president might tweet something and calls war with Iran, and then we've got the pandemic and, you know, you can go to the grocery store and catch it and change your entire life because you needed avocados. You know? So there's all this. Kind of the uncertainty and brooding in the air.
[00:29:34] So people are turning towards more kind of, not, I won't say fundamentalist, but a different take on religion. And I think where we were headed before this, where religion was kind of becoming more seen as a, you know, people were saying they were spiritual, but not religious. Right. Where it's like, yeah, sure.
[00:29:52] I'd like to meditate or, you know, I think there's a God, but who knows? Yeah. And I. It's a vocal minority still, but there are a [00:30:00] lot more people I interact with just through my day-to-day stuff or either on theological Twitter. Yeah. Who are turning towards things like Eastern orthodoxy or, or hardcore Catholicism or fundamentalists, you know, Baptist even really, I guess, I guess on the one hand, like in terms of like Donald Trump tweeting of the stock market or whatever, I guess humans do like to have a, if they see an effect, they like to see a cause however, Accurate or inaccurate that is, and I, and I can imagine that in times of uncertainty than you, you go for things which offer some certainty.
[00:30:33] I mean, I certainly do, but that is, that's interesting that, cause I would have thought that, you know, I guess I would have thought that more, a more, you know, nominally Protestant people would, would, would sooner go over to Eastern orthodoxy then to Catholicism. I'm not sure it's based on where you are and you know, all sorts of sorts of circumstances, but you know, also just the, that, that human condition we have [00:31:00] of looking back and saying the good old days, or make America great again, you know, those primal feel we have, and it's like, well, This sucks, living like this, we're all in our apartments or our homes.
[00:31:12] And we might have kids might not, but you know, I can't see my coworkers. I can't go out to the bar with my friends. I can't go to restaurants. I can't, I didn't really go to church, but I remember that being a big part of my grandparents or my parents or whoever. And they seem to have a great life. Yeah.
[00:31:27] And they had a house and they had cars and I can't afford a car. Yeah. And I can't get a new job because we're all stuck inside on zoom and it's just, you know, maybe that was the better way to live. So maybe I want to find a wife who's going to be subservient to her husband and have meals ready and take care of the kids while I put on my business suit and go to my three martini lunch.
[00:31:45] And, you know, I, I, it feels like there's a lot of that in the air, at least here. Well even, so a couple of tweets over the weekend about this, like the new fashion lines at target and H and M some of these more department store type places, a lot of [00:32:00] dresses that are for, identified females, who the dress is, you know, very high up on the neck and long sleeves and very long cut, you know, down to the ankles.
[00:32:10] And it, you know, it looks like something out of, That, that you would see in a, in a pandemic dystopian movie and. what was that? the Handmaiden's tale. Yeah. Yeah. Very much. Yeah. They're very kind of flowing and you know, one conception is people aren't, you know, there's no reason to wear like a tightly tailored suit, whether you're a male or female or identified, however, and, you know, go through your Workday like that.
[00:32:36] If you're sitting on your couch on zoom, you know, so like, why not be comfortable, but still have some fashion. But I saw a lot of great Twitter takes that were like, yeah, it feels like. You know, target is trying to sell us a version of, you know, the 1890s women were at home. We were in the kids and you know, the different, different circumstances.
[00:32:58] Yeah. I don't know. [00:33:00] I think there's going to be increasingly not, maybe not a huge turn or anything like that, but it definitely put the skids on kind of that feeling that religion was. You know, fading out in the younger generations or, or middle-aged population as something that was seen as a core part of the experience or whatever.
[00:33:20] And I think we'll see some people that, you know, depending on again, area location, socioeconomics, all sorts of things, but people who wouldn't have traditionally or weren't on the way to. You know, one day attending church or synagogue or, or, or, mosques saying, yeah, maybe I should give this stuff a shot.
[00:33:39] Cause you know, the way I was living here, you know, it didn't really work out so hot. He said it's a couple of things that are interesting. So one, I guess my, having come through a cohort of people who. Got their first jobs, just around the time the.com bubble. All my friends were like into the stock market.
[00:33:55] Most of them joined a year or two ahead of me. So they got, they were able to cash out a little bit [00:34:00] during the, the little boom time. so I do remember this rule in investing where, or this rule of thumb, whatever, saying that basically you're, you're in a bull market. Like stocks are going up if. Like fashion or women's fashion is risque.
[00:34:15] Like men's fashion has changed. Right. And, but that in a downturn people, I guess the simplified, you know, crude non-scientific logic was that if it's bad times, then women's clothes become more conservative and, you know, cover more the body of that kind of thing, which actually correlates to this, this thing that you're observing with target in terms of the, coronavirus.
[00:34:36]and other, chaos, possibly associating with these longer dresses. although I would also imagine that the design not to get the coronavirus might also cause people to want to wear more, more clothes. Yeah, sure, sure. yeah, that definitely a, that definitely triggered a memory there. I've always said there's, there's a very [00:35:00] small.
[00:35:00]you know, the theology aside, there's not a huge leap from sort of the very evangelical fundamentalists. You know, I mean, I'll say from my experience Southern Baptist, but there's a lot of Presbyterians and holiness churches and Southern Methodist, or, you know, all sorts of churches out there that can be lumped into that fundamentalist holiness movement.
[00:35:20] But it's not as, a big leap to go from that to something like Sharia law. You know, there's a lot of commonality in terms of. Societal setups. And you know, again, I'm not trying to be white guy with making the huge connections between ideas or anything like that, but, like I can offer certainty more than anything else.
[00:35:37] So it's like, yeah, whatever, whatever community or religious group you're in, then if there's. I guess the community bands together against outside threats, whether it's a virus or, you know, bad times, whatever, which I suppose would make it more plausible for like hardliners and to, to, to come forward.
[00:35:56] Yeah. And, and, and we see that so much now, especially again, with social [00:36:00] media and, you know, the, the ability to find very specific niche groups that you identify with strongly. And it, you know, it's a human, theme where we find these groups and we identify with them and we. When it keeps the outsiders away or let them know that they're not doing things right or correctly.
[00:36:19] And you know, our, our understanding of this idea presented in Pokemon is better than your understanding of this idea in Pokemon. So therefore our subreddit is better than your subreddit. Right. You know, or our discord server is better than, yeah. So I think there's a lot of, a lot of that going on as well, but it's, yeah, it's interesting.
[00:36:37] I hadn't delve too much into that. I'm just thinking. You know, out loud, but, I think it's going to be interesting to see if we bounce back into something like the roaring twenties in the United States, where it was, you know, seen as a time of the flappers and Xs and lots of parties and, you know, kind of this really fun times.
[00:36:59] And then the stock [00:37:00] market collapsed. you know, or if it'll come out as something more austere, right. I don't know. After after many years and. I was seeing so much, frothiness in, in tech and now in the clean energy sector where, this is remarkable, you know, truly the, the companies with the least promise.
[00:37:21] On an objective basis, have the largest stock gains. I would think that we're kind of at the tail end of that. And we're due for some sort of, you know, seven years of hard times, whatever, the, the analog in the Hebrew Bible was, whereas if you're just coming out of like the great recession, then it's like, okay, well have been kind of crappy for a year and a bit, maybe some good times coming, but, Yeah.
[00:37:44] Yeah, that's interesting. I, I, I wanted to pick your brain a little bit before we had to wrap up, but the, Like you said the Eva industry, the electric vehicle and clean energy sector is again so fascinating to me because, you know, being [00:38:00] someone who grew up on a farm in the United States, like fuel was diesel or.
[00:38:05] You know, gasoline. Right. And, we, we still look at some things like solar with, with kind of a like, well, my work, but you know, we're not really sure we want to do that. And then again, we have some of the largest solar farms in the country, in our state just because we have so much land in and the sun shines on us, a great deal.
[00:38:25]Yeah, but there's been lots of talk about wind energy off of our coasts and, you know, sort of tapping into those, those areas as we move forward. But then you've got the institutional sort of politicians who were fed a great deal by, you know, the, the sort of old energy concerns here. you know, along with, again, that, that feeling of.
[00:38:49] Well, my, my granddad got along just fine using diesel and fuel. So what do I have to use older? Or, you know, can we trust this stuff? Or what was Donald Trump's thing? You know, like if there's no wind, you can't watch [00:39:00] TV at night. so yeah, just understanding battery technology and clean ended her energy technology.
[00:39:04] Like, are you seeing, yeah. There's, 2020 was definitely a very big year for anyone who was, had, had put their money towards. Idealism and, you know, not having money in fossil fuel stuff. I think the actual run-up might have had less to do with COVID itself and more to do with the fact that it's like for one day in February due to a weird way that financial arrangements are structured.
[00:39:36] Matthew: The, the asking price for oil when negative, like there was this one day where, well, remember they asked for one day like minus $37 a barrel, right. The next day. Yeah, because of the way these contracts work, it was right back up to like 20 or $25 or whatever it is and my thinking. And, what was that line from that movie?
[00:39:54] Like, don't get high on your own supply. If I had, if I had actually, you know, [00:40:00] Put big, you know, money on my deals as opposed to being conscious and like, well, you know, there's, you know, there's perception bias and all these other things. It's like, wow, I could've cleaned up last year, but, but no, I was kind of a cautious as, as his mind might have it.
[00:40:15]and so, I was, not particularly, participating in that, inflation of values. that's an aside, the actual, the actual answer is yes. So I guess the, though. One major benefit that the soul about solar power in particular has wind turbines as well as that. because these are little individual pieces of things, individual units, and you can actually get manufacturing economies of scale as you manufacture more of them.
[00:40:44] And you get these things called learning curves, where things get cheaper, the more you do them. And, I dunno, I guess Mummers long with microchips might be kind of an extreme example of that, where you can like double every two years or whatever, the amount of computational power per dollar or something like this [00:41:00] or participle or whatever it is.
[00:41:01] And, So that's something that you don't really get when you're pulling stuff out of the ground, because you have one piece of equipment and, you're, you're relying on the geology and these other things. So basically, yeah. Solar power, wind power. They're going to get cheaper, in particular on the us.
[00:41:18]shoreline the Atlantic coast or whatever it is. the seaboard Eastern seaboard. it, one nice thing about, seaboards is that they tend to be very windy. and part of that has helped because you don't have mountains around the terrain, which causes. No, the wind to kind of go all like, spin around cause turbulence and things like that.
[00:41:38] And so, yeah, there's tremendous promise, for offshore wind, in many, in many regions, the UFC board, especially, and, the, the technology didn't really exist 10 years ago. but, basically, as people had some success with onshore wind turbines are like, well, maybe we can put these off the water and you've got to build them a bit differently.
[00:41:58] Got a rugged ism [00:42:00] and, and you can do that. And now they're talking about using floating, offshore wind turbines, basically. It's it's, it's a fascinating case of evolution here where, standard oil, the Norwegian, state oil company, used to operate a bunch of offshore floating, oil Wells, or all, all drilling rigs.
[00:42:17] And they were like, well, we got to kind of get into this new energy stuff and why don't we try and design floating platforms for wind turbines instead. And so they're one of the leading providers. It's like, it's a fascinating, like pivot. It's, it's a great. Great story, a great narrative. And, I mean, it almost reminds me in a way of how.
[00:42:39] I guess you have in older texts, you had the, the scroll, right? Like the, scrolls, but, early in Christianity, someone was like, Hey, let's use both sides. Let's like, let's invent the codex. And so it was like, let's use both sides of this animal skin as like yeah. That's kind of an innovative, innovative thing.
[00:42:58] And so, so yeah, I would, I guess [00:43:00] the, the, the. Institutional bias or the, the, If your life has been centered around fossil fuels, of course, that's the default things are kind of, they might not exactly match your needs. but the, the way that things are trending, it's like, well, over time, something which only meets 50% of your needs.
[00:43:19] Well, you know, in a few years we'll meet 60% or then 65 and 70. And so it's one of those, it's like phones, I suppose, right? Like at first your phone, here's your smartphone, your more mobile phone only actually did calls. Then you could kind of add tanks now. It's what they say. They probably sell more phones per year than computers.
[00:43:37] And it's similar to that. an analogy like that with, with renewables in that, they are largely able to. displace fossil fuels for production, for transportation. they're not there yet, but by the time we build out to their limits today, we'll say. By the time we build up to the 2020 technology limits, maybe it will be 2030, [00:44:00] but then the technology will have improved.
[00:44:01] So we'll have a bit further to go before 14, those limits in 2040, in which case we'll have another 10 years of new development. So it is very, it's a, it's a promising art, you know, after a lifetime of environmental doom and gloom. Actually again, if we, if we chat next time, I can bring up some work that a friend of mine has done on like climate models and, I guess, true to human nature of the extreme cases.
[00:44:26] Like. Yeah, the book of revelation gets a disproportionate amount of attention in the new Testament, in the Christian scriptures than its length and in a similar way, you know, for very good reason. a lot of, press releases and academic study goes to the worst case models because you want to be.
[00:44:43] Prepare it in case you have these catastrophic situations and it's good for the clinics. Well, that's that's right. Yeah. Which isn't, I don't at all want to say, want to imply that scientists do things for the clicks, but, if you do a paper on something which is apocalyptic, then it's dangerous, you know, it's something which [00:45:00] hits the amygdala or whatever those.
[00:45:01] Portrait brainer. And of course they will get more attention because yeah. Well it's the Elon Musk model, right? Like, yeah, that's right. That's right. It's a, yeah, it's the, it's that a attention grabbing thing. And so what my friend has done is that, one, I guess the, the one sentence message is that we are on track to a, one of the.
[00:45:22] One of the more benign, not quite the most benign or the least bad, let's call it of a UN climate scenarios, but we're on track to the, to the, to one of the lesser malevolent ones. And the reason is that when these models were first put together, when this, this most catastrophic model came out or CPA 0.5, this was at a time when people were worried there wasn't going to be enough oil.
[00:45:45] It's like a peak while kind of a worry. So. When they did the models, they were like, okay, well, everything goes back to cool. And so in that worst case model where there's temperatures like four or five degrees Celsius higher than it is now, or whatever, that [00:46:00] assumes a world which burns like six times as much coal in the year, 2100 than it burns in the year.
[00:46:05] 2000. Oh, okay. It's not going to happen because like cool is being phased out. Right. And, you know, it's, it's not just a bunch of nerds saying how we're so smart. You know, there's a lot of community action. There's a lot of advocacy. There's a lot of grassroots things, pulling together for that. But, you know, and innocuous, you know, early differences like, well, we're going to make this model.
[00:46:24]you know, what, if there's no more oil or gas everything's around coal, you get this terrible result. people with good intentions and, you know, with appropriate prudence, spend a lot of time looking at that model. And we're in the fortunate case that it's not that bad, right? It's like, maybe it would be like some, you know, some, Christian congregations taking literally the idea that 150, 44,000 souls will be saved, right.
[00:46:50] As opposed to the Moro, you know, common inference that, well, it's kind of a. Representative, immuno metaphorical thing. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like a [00:47:00] distinction there. Omaha, Nebraska is fine, but the rest of us are going to hell. That's right. That's right. And I'm sure the people in the, you know, the Shelby, the old to the, to the Springfield of Omaha, Nebraska will be like, Oh no, no, we're the good guys.
[00:47:11] Right. Well, it didn't. And what you're saying reminds me in some ways, from the business point of view of both, You know, every, every tech that that really takes hold, you know, the automobile is a perfect example. You know, it wasn't until. The automobile was, was mechanized in a way that the, the means of production became, you know, this, this monster of a industry that, you know, Henry Ford and a few others came up with that, you know, you can put all the raw materials here then, you know, the other end of the Rose plan and, you know, Detroit or Flint, wherever it was, you know, out pops a model T and.
[00:47:45] It, you know, it took that sort of production factor from someone who was interested in a profit motive, not necessarily, you know, making it easier for people to travel, but saying like, Oh no, I know what people need in order to do this. So I'm gonna make money doing that. [00:48:00] Or Steve jobs with Apple, you know, like he was never ashamed of making money from his computers, his technology.
[00:48:06] And it was very much a, I think I'm helping the world, but I'm also doing this to make jobs for people and, and prove our economy and to, you know, make a amazing green space and do all these things he did. But it's like I'm Kara Swisher, Kara Swisher. Who? A tech writer. Yeah, I think I read some of her stuff.
[00:48:23] Yeah. Yeah. She, I think she is. Or is it the New York times? she's been around in the tech world forever. Great, great writer and thinker, but, she has a podcast now called sway, which is really interesting, kind of the same thing as this where, yeah, where it's like, she interviews very interesting people about their business ideas and kind of takes them on from a tech point of view.
[00:48:41] But, she roots, well, she was interviewed by Bloomberg a couple of weeks ago, I believe. And she said that she was talking about the difference between climate technology and. Traditional clean tag or clean technology, and think there's a difference in understanding of those two. And she says, the [00:49:00] first trillionaire, you know, on earth will generate yeah.
[00:49:05] They'll generate their wealth from being in climate related technology or climate tech instead of just clean tech, which I think is a very interesting thing. I'll also do the link here and I'll put this on the show notes people. Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's a fascinating argument. I'd never thought of climate tech as being something that would be apart from Cleantech, but, it's a compelling case.
[00:49:29]and a lot of it has to do with that profit motive and saying, you know, not only are you helping humanity survive the coming climate crisis, but where the climate crisis we're in. But, You know, you're also, there's a profit motive there for the Elon Musk types or the Jeff Bezos types who are willing to, you know, rule in the underlying means of production, but also come back and I'll just shut up after this because you're the expert on this.
[00:49:56] But also I think things like blockchain technology are [00:50:00] really going to be a big part of, Oh yeah. Climate tech or clean tech or whatever, and, and just. You know, talk about technologies. We're just at the beginning of, I've been so excited about it for a few years now, but, you know, I'm one of those fools who thinks, you know, Bitcoin has something of a chance, but, but blockchain in general I think is, is something that's a fascinating technology.
[00:50:20] That's going to really, really, really transformed things and, and unexpected ways. Yeah. Oh, I think I do agree there. just going slinking back, you know, Henry Ford and also this, you know, counting on your fingers, kind of a thing. If like Ford got his ideas for the mass production line, the assembly line from watching, I think butchers in Chicago, which was a big meet sort of.
[00:50:43] King area. I didn't know that. And, and so he basically said, Oh, maybe I can apply this sort of this mass, you know, basically it was a mass disassembly line of cows or something. And he was like, well, maybe I can mass assemble, automobiles using the same idea that, you know, every, every [00:51:00] worker, you know, puts on a widget as opposed to, you know, every.
[00:51:03] But you're on this line and your takes off a particular cut of meat and yeah, it sounds like things, things definitely do link. It is kind of cool to see how they link together. And I will definitely have to listen to that, trillionaire, question there, my, my counterpoint with it, you know, without hearing it is that, you know, something, is that valuable?
[00:51:21] I would wonder if governments would simply say, well, we're just going to invalidate your patent for the public. Good. although I suppose a Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk are already what, one fifth of the way to becoming trillionaires. My comment would be that since bayzos has managed to have profits for many years at Amazon bike, Semi my monopolizing was cloud services with AWS.
[00:51:45] I'm thinking he might have a, have a headstart there. And also wouldn't he be twice as rich if he hadn't. You know, had an affair and divorced, his wife got divorced. Like he would be just head and shoulders about anyway, which is really, that's an eight because his [00:52:00] wife just donated, I think 25 million to a local, historically black college here and another like 10 million to a school district to help out with a feeding program based on tech stuff, like here in Columbia.
[00:52:11] And it's like, wow. Okay, well, cool. Other billionaires would do that sort of thing. Well, I, I think, you know, maybe there's some sort of a perception or a starting point difference in that if you're Oh, actually yes. So just businesses playing monopoly, like, okay, how do I get richer? Right. What are the he's going to see?
[00:52:31] He, I assume, spends his time trying to figure out how to improve Amazon. So the empire sprawls further, whereas she's playing a French game called , which is an anti-monopoly where the goal is to literally give away all your money. So, it's, it's just a negates idea, American versus French, you know, see, see if I can find that, the title of that game.
[00:52:51] Okay. So like  in French is a, a, is a word to describe someone who like fritters away all their [00:53:00] money. And so yes, indeed. There is a, there's a girl girl, but there's a game called lymphoma. Thrombo came out in the eighties and yes, it's an anti-monopoly in the sense that your goal is to be the biggest.
[00:53:14] give her a way of money in the game. So some it is literally an anti-monopoly, which is hilarious. Premise. Yeah. I love it. Oh, that's funny. yeah, that's, that's a good, that's a good, connection there. Yeah. Cause I mean, we, we C we, we law and applaud the bill Gates and Melinda Gates who do that sort of thing and want to cure malaria.
[00:53:32] I want to take on coronavirus and, and with, the former events visas, I forgot her name. I'm blanking here, but a McKinsey basis. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. It's just name dropped on chapel recently. That's how I, that's how I know. Gotcha. yeah, here it goes. That's not it on Amazon. It's funny. anti-monopoly game travel 10.
[00:53:50] Yeah, the real estate trading game for the 21st century. Yeah, I love it. I'll put a link down the Shannon's for people listening, so yeah. So I'll send you that link, [00:54:00] but, I think it's. Again, I think we're at the beginning of a whole lot of things and the culmination of some other things. But I think that business-wise, we're going to see such a transformation.
[00:54:09] I mean, like, as we wrap up here, but like California, just recently passed legislation saying that all internal combustion engines, so all new cars are a to Missouri, Michigan and California at California is interesting in that. I think there's like, I forget if it's 10 or 14, I think it's 14 other States basically cut and paste from California, for example, or straight Massachusetts, rather than just announced.
[00:54:37] Start if you're on the weekend, it would follow the lead and ban the sale of new internal combustion engine by 2035, basically, you know, So as not to get people all scared and so forth, it's like, you can drive as long as you like, just not buy new ones. Right. And so, but yeah, that's, that's, again, that's 15 years.
[00:54:53] That's a long enough time people who, you know, want to, you know, stick with their trusty, vehicle, [00:55:00] you know, can, can still do so, but it is, it is a nice way of regulating things into being, which you can't always rely on the free market to do. Yeah, exactly. I mean, like my father works in, in the car business or major company and he, he, you know, we're talking about the California side of things and he said, yeah, you know, 15 years, he was like, I'll be out of the business.
[00:55:20] But I, you know, I think it's a good thing. And you know, he's old school, very South Carolina guy, you know, so to hear that from him, I was like, Oh, It's like, yeah. You know, it's time for change. They're like, but used car sales this year have been through the roof across the country, especially in places like, Oh yeah.
[00:55:36] Yeah. We, we had to buy a second car last year because COVID meant that, basically, you know, working from home basically meant that one of us couldn't both drop off and pick up the kids here. And so, yeah. So yeah, I can totally see why used car sales would have spiked. Yeah. Yeah. So he was like, you know, so I expect that will continue for a little while.
[00:55:56] Cause I have a, a truck from like 2017 that [00:56:00] it's terrible. It needs is way too much fuel or whatever, but it comes in handy and he was like, yeah, I could take your truck right now and turn it around and sell it for a belt. What you pay for it? And, you know, get, get that back out. I was like, wow. Anyway, I think that's a fascinating time.
[00:56:14] And maybe in the future, we'll just, you know, buy from Carvana with our Bitcoin and the card will show up at our home. It's charged up and ready to go with our battery packs. I'm sure that someone is already become a billionaire by hyping that idea. and if not, I'm sure it's only a matter of time whether they deliver on that or when they deliver on that, you know, might be one of those undressed or overestimate change in two years, but underestimated in 10 years, you know, rules of thumb from the, from the tech sector.
[00:56:42] Yeah. I think so much. It's going to change in the next 10 years. And that's what I want to talk to you about next time. It's like, are we going to be buying automobiles and. Motorcycles in 10 years, are we gonna, you know, are things like public transportation finally gonna crack through with the general population?
[00:56:59] That's [00:57:00] not just, you know, major urban centers and, and what that might look like for the future. So I thank you for being here and taking some time today to walk us through all that. It's so much fun. Yeah. Lots of fun. Not many folks I can, I can, Share, my intellectual curiosity and the thirst about, things about faith communities with, so I know I was going to talk, I've got like 10 questions here about eating and clean tech stuff.
[00:57:27] And we got through like two, so we got plenty of room for next. Yeah. So if people, If people wanted to read more about your meetings, what Twitter or your website? I guess the easiest way to reach me would be on Twitter. so my handles electronic com electron like the particle E L E C T R O N C O M M.
[00:57:50]it's a, an increasingly, misunderstood label. People think I do PR, but I actually do technical writing path. Yeah. So it's like, it's a classic misdirect, I [00:58:00] guess. and I do have a sub stack also, Evie forum.subsect.com. that's that's my analogy. Why Tesla's like animal farm. The one sentence version is that, you know, just as the pigs wound up being more explorative than the humans, they overthrew in this one particular case, I think Tesla has.
[00:58:17] Has behaved more anti-socially or more poorly than the legacy automakers. It intends to disrupt in everything except, CO2 emissions. But, that's just my, that's my outlet for, for railing at the injustice. It's a private Jeremiah, it's a, it's a mailing list, Jeremiah. And if you're interested in ed technology or clean tech or Elon Musk and Tesla, and what they're doing, like please go subscribe to the Matthew sub stack.
[00:58:46] Cause it's, it's a, it's a fun read that I always enjoy. When those pop in, or, you know, when, when you, publish a new technical piece, it's always fascinating. I knew what one 10th of what you're talking about, but it's, it, it makes me feel smarter. [00:59:00] Right? Well, if I can't make you feel smarter than I'll start, if I can't make people smarter than I can give them the illusion of it, I suppose.
[00:59:07] And with that, that's a good way to, to send to all. So thank you, Matthew. I appreciate it. Thank you.