Monica:  Well, welcome to the revelation project podcast. I'm Monica Rogers, and this podcast is intended to disrupt the trance of unworthiness and to guide women, to remember and reveal the truth of who we are. We say that life is a revelation project and what gets revealed. He gets healed. Welcome to another edition of the revelation project podcast.

Today, I'm pleased to introduce Rebecca Lynn gold. Who's been writing since the age of six. When she found a floral cloth covered five-year diary with a lock and key in her Christmas stocking. She is now an author editor writing coach. And the founder of yoga, writing a practice that utilizes the philosophies and disciplines of yoga, meditation, and journaling for writers of all levels to break through resistance.

Uncover memories and find story nuggets buried within her books include till there was 

you an adoption expectancy journal. A wizard called was a biography of St. Stephen Wosniak. Is that right? 


Rebecca:  Rebecca? Stephen was there. 


Monica:  Steven was maniac. That's why we're here. Stories from passionate James Taylor fans. I love that. How to write it funny with author humorist, Amy Coco, and a friend named sunny skies, a memoir of trauma healing and the music of James Taylor. She's currently writing from your mat to your memoir, creating a yoga writing practice to find and write. Your life stories. Rebecca believes that writing is a spiritual practice, much like yoga or meditation. It takes courage to forage ahead. Even when you have no idea where you're going, you step on the mat, you greet the page, you meet your resistance, and then you let it. Go Rebecca has three children who live in three different States. Although she tries to not take that personally three grandchildren and a fourth on the way she lives with her husband as Baldo.

And if their dog brownie in Providence, Rhode Island for now, she leads workshops, retreats, and online programs using yoga, writing as a tool for women to find and write their life stories. Hello, Rebecca. 


Rebecca:  Hey, There Monica. I'm so happy to be here. 


Monica:  So happy to have you. And of course, I'm immediately picking up on all the references to James Taylor. You got a friend all of the ways he has changed our lives. So tell me about that love affair. Before we get into the writing. 


Rebecca:  we gotta start with James. Of course. We're gonna start with James 


Monica:  it's. Does one begin? Rebecca? 


Rebecca:  Everything starts with James. It's so funny. Right before I signed on to you, I put, I went to his YouTube channel because for 48 hours. He's doing a concert when they're showing a concert that he did in 1971 with Joni Mitchell. So it was a live video of this old concert from the BBC. So right before I put you on, I listened to a little bit of James. It just totally takes me to that place. 


Monica:  And he, and he of course does everything in that James Taylor way. So it doesn't matter if he's singing Christmas carols or his own music. It's just beautiful. And it's yeah. There's a way that, you know, I can listen to his voice and immediately be transported. Also back in time. 


Rebecca:  That's me that's. I mean, from the first time I heard him, which is basically what my, you know, the title of my memoir, you were, there's two books there with James Taylor.

One is just stories from other fans like myself. And the other one is that my memoir has a lot to do with James Taylor because when I was a teenager, his music, the first time I heard fire and rain was the first time I really felt like somebody knew. Who I was and what I was going through, the pain that I was going through, he just captured it so beautifully in that song. And from that point on every single time, I feel sad or depressed or even happy and wonderful, whatever. I'll find a song of James Taylor's that will just comfort me and speak to me. And. It's been incredible. It's, it's been a huge, huge part of my life.  You know, I, I sound like a crazy stalker fan. I probably seen him in concert like 50, 60 times. And every time I do, when he comes on the stage, I just silently thank him. I feel like he's just been right there with me throughout my entire life. It's it is, it's a love affair. You put it perfectly 


Monica:  well. And I, I always say, you know, I always look for these access points are what I refer to as portals. And I, I think music is one of them, you know, it's, it's really, it's like it opens this portal into, I think, a place that reveals something to us. So, yeah. And music and writing are two are two of those. Really those, those entry points into that space and where we feel seen, where we feel resonating with S with almost like it's like a cellular opening. Totally. So tell, so I love that and I love that it's, I'm making up. I'm not sure if you said this, but that he and his music has been a conduit for you to access deeper parts of yourself. Is that right? 


Rebecca:  That's exactly right. And I mean, it, I didn't even know that it was happening at the time it was happening because I had so, so much going on in my life.

It was a very, very dark period in my, in my life when I was about 13 or so. And I couldn't. You know, things were going on that I couldn't tell anybody I was in a, in a very bad place. And when I heard how he was able to just let it out through his words and his music, it allowed me to go back, open my journal and write everything that I was going through.

Everything that I was feeling, all the secrets that were happening in my, in my life that I couldn't tell anybody about. And I allowed his music to bring me to a place where I could write about my pain and in doing that, I was able to just break it apart, break it open and get the help that I needed to. So, and every time since it's, it's this thing where I go like, Like, Oh my God, this is a way for me once again, to break it open. And I think that's what it's all about before, when you were reading the cards. When that line that I told you that just hit me, was faith in the process of unfolding. Like we break things open without even knowing why without even knowing why, but there is something that. Is on the other side. And I think that's what music and that's what writing allows us to do, allows me to do. 


Monica:  Right, right. Yeah. And for our listeners. So every time I'm about to, to record a podcast episode, I always have a guest choose a card or a deck that I work with Oracle cards and the card that we chose or that Rebecca chose. Uh, was called becoming, and it was from the Alana Fairchild, DEC, uh, the journey of love. And that was the deck that you chose. And of course that card was perfect. 


Rebecca:  Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I love it. 


Monica:  And I, you know, and becoming as really, it's interesting, I, before this episode, I had a great conversation with Tabitha Lord, who is also an author.

And she, she talked about, you know, the writing process, really, really helping her to learn about other assets. Effects of herself. And so there is this becoming process. And the reason that I really wanted to record this episode with you, Rebecca, is because I think there's so many of us out there who could identify with that little six year old girl who saw a lock and key floral cloth covered diary.

Oh my God. I, you know, I. And then of course, you know, maybe they're not covered in flowers. Like they were, cause I was certainly a seven, you know, seventies, baby. But, but that idea, you know, of being able to keep your thoughts behind lock and key, there's something so comforting, even though those were flimsy darn locks. Right, right, 


Rebecca:  right. And then funny thing is in now, you know, I find that because I work with mostly women, right. Haters. And there's this weird thing that they still feel like they have to keep it under lock and key. And it's like, wait a minute. At this point, we're allowed to open it up. We're allowed to share it. You know, you should be sharing it. So the idea of locking P just keep the words to yourself. It's like, let's break that open a little bit. Let's let's share let's connect. Let's heal. Not only ourselves. Cells by writing, but each other by sharing. And I think that's a really important part of writing as well.


Monica:  Rebecca, if you were to stand in the front of a room of a hundred women and ask them how many women were interested in writing a memoir, how many of them would raise their hand? 


Rebecca:  Oh, my God, you know, how many would be brave enough to raise their hand? Probably 85 and the other 15 are government. Yeah, me too. But they're afraid to say it. 


Monica:  And, and that, that I have chills right now because that was my hunch. And, and I swear to God, I swear to my listeners. I did not preempt that question. Um, it just came to me because I think it's true. Like I think, yeah. And of course, you know, that I've interviewed Angela Todd, who's a woman's archivist. Yeah, I love her work and it's, I'm starting to really recognize is that every woman has a story to tell and that the more we can give women access and support to accessing those inner stories, the more the world can begin to have her story. Yeah. 


Rebecca:  Yeah. And I just, I love that word too. That Angela is the history, you know, it's just, it's just so it's so perfect because I don't know why we were trained to think that our stories should be secondary, that our stories shouldn't be allowed to be told. And again, it goes back to that little lock and key, right. But that's, that's the beauty of. Of all of this work of Angela's work of mine, work of other people's work. When we say, okay, ladies, it's time to break, open that lock and key. Let's get those stories out. And the more we get them out and where we realize that we all are the same story, we all have things that we can connect with each other, which is why, you know, writing memoirs. So my favorite, um, form of writing and reading 


Monica:  well, and what I love about the memoir and so many women. Perhaps thinking about writing a memoir is that it really does allow us, I think, to reveal memories that maybe we haven't processed yet, but that get to, but they get to kind of come to the surface and.Perhaps even B be healed. I think, I think writing can be an incredibly cathartic process. I wondered if you would talk to us a little bit about, because of course this is your magic, what yoga writing really is and why it's so powerful exactly. For that reason. 


Rebecca:  Sure. Yeah. I'd love to the, the, um, But well, a little bit of background when I was writing all through my twenties to my thirties and even my forties, I, I was doing a lot of nonfiction writing, a lot of surface writing. I mean, I was writing personal stories, but they were feel-good stories. I was writing stories about adoption and, you know, Steve Wasniak, he's the founder of Apple computer. So I was doing a lot of that kind of, you know, writing stories that were kind of on the. On the surface in a way still? Um, I mean, I'm proud of my work I was doing. Uh, I had a column for parents magazine and all of that, but whenever I would go to write my own story, which as I alluded to in the beginning of this had a lot of trauma, a lot of depression issues, a lot of sadness, a lot of, um, just messed up stuff. I would come to the point where I couldn't get further. I couldn't get further. I would come to these blocks and resistance and then just stop. And so I knew that. This was something that I had to really get through and therapy and all, you know, all of the things that we do to kind of get through blocks helped me in my life, but didn't help me in my writing. And I couldn't figure out why. And then late in life, I mean, I was like pushing 50, late forties. I discovered yoga and the more yoga and meditation and breath work and all of the yoga processes. And the more I got into that, the more deeper. My writing became and I thought, okay, wait a minute. What's going on here? There's definitely a connection between my body, my brain, my mind, my breath, all of that. There's a connection to that in the writing. So, because I'm this research kind of, you know, person that just dives in, I went into, I went all in and I really started looking at this in every which way. And I did a yoga teacher training and I did all of this research. And I discovered this lot. I didn't discover it. I learned about this philosophy called the punch at kosha philosophy and yoga, where it talks about five different layers that we experience our world through the physical layer, our body energetic layer, our breath, the mental layer, our mind, the, our intuition layer, our inner wisdom. And of course the, our deepest layer, the soul. So all of these layers, we can do practices, yoga, body practices, and breath practices and meditations and chanting to tap into each of these different layers. So when I looked at this, I thought, you know what, all of these shares, I have been writing only through one of these layers. And 


Monica:  can I, can I can, I guess which one is the mind? Yes. 


Rebecca:  People, you know, I mean, that's where we start, right. Learn how to write, but we're school. We learn how to write. It's all about that. And I'm like, okay, this isn't working. So I would, I learned how to tap into all of these other layers. And just as one example, for example, I'll talk about the pranamaya kosha, the breath. So I would do these breath practices like. Alternate Nadi shodhana for example, alternate nostril breathing. And I would do this breath practice for five minutes or 10 minutes. And then when I was done, I would write with a prompt that kind of went along with that idea of balancing. So I would write, I remember, I remember, I remember and write five or 10 minutes on I member and then I would stop. And then I would write, I don't remember. I don't remember. I don't remember. I don't remember. So you see what I'm doing here? I'm working with the breath. Cleansing. And then I'm working with the writing with the opposite. So, so this is what I started to do. And I was like, okay, there is definitely something here. And so long story short, I'm kind of getting a little bit long here, but long story short, I just came up with this idea of different ways to tap into these different layers and to use them in the writing. So I have all of these different prompts that are paired with all of these different. As I call yoga writing exercises, and that's where I'd lead my students. I say, we're going to do this exercise and then this prompt and see what happens. And for me, it allowed me to right through my trauma. It allowed me to write through all of these experiences that I was afraid to write through before, because it broke things open. Much the same way as we talked in the beginning about that music breaking, you know, breaking open the portal, as you say, 


Monica:  right. And for our listeners, I had the just honor of listening to a storytelling night on zoom, of course, through born to rise Kim filler. And I loved that the two of you collaborated and what I got a chance to hear where the six students that you're currently working with. And I got to tell you, yeah, I w no, there was not one story that I wasn't just like, wow, that was amazing. Or, wow, that was amazing. And there was a way that they had made laughing, crying, like, um, really took me on a journey. And I love that. Of course, that word was a hated word by, uh, by one of them. And I. W w what was her name again? Katie. 


Rebecca:  Katie in a one woman show. And that's the thing, this, you know, I have people that are writing memoirs and one woman shows or whatever, but, but her whole thing was okay, are we going on another journey? And because we meet once a week and I'm like, yes, Katie, we're going on it generally. 


Monica:  I know I love that Sinek, but it shows up because of course I can relate there's that resistance. Right. And right. And it, and yet. You know, I think that when there's resistance, there's also always this indicator to me, that somewhere beyond that is some pretty juicy material.


Rebecca:  Totally, totally. And that's where the best material comes from. And that's yeah. Kind of what I was talking about before. Like when you get to that point in your writing, we go, okay, that's enough close the book, you know? And I was like, no, no, no. That's where you start. That's where you start that resistance.


Monica:  And so I, my next question has to do with trauma because I think that. First and foremost, the idea that women are sitting out there even saying, I don't have a story to tell is evidence to me actually, of trauma. Some people might be like, what are you talking about? But when we. Can I guess, look at ourselves or our life and say like, I don't have a story worth telling, or my story is not important for me. I get immediately curious and I want, I want to know more about that woman too, to find out what's what has her thinking that way. And so what I want to ask you about is of course, there's deeper traumas, and then there's some really. Difficult stuff that frankly, a lot of us would rather never open that lock and key ever again, that story behind that wall that we've built. And I wonder what you would say about accessing that material and, or. Maybe not that there's a place to start that feels safe and available, but I'd love to hear about the process for you in helping to guide somebody. Who's maybe had a lot of trauma. 


Rebecca:  Yeah. And that's a really, that's a really good question because I end up working with, you know, how it is with your work. You just. People come to you for a particular reason. And I do end up working with people that have dealt with trauma in their life and they really want to heal, and I'm not a therapist. And I tell people right off the bat, you know that I'm not a therapist, but this is, I used to teach a class and I still do sometimes called right to heal because there are. Different ways, different writing practices that you could do expressive writing, for example, that actually works specifically to overcome trauma. And you know, you you're right for 15 minutes, four times a day for four days in a row, you know, there's some very like rules that say of how to. How to get it out of you, but there's, there's also the stop signs when you're writing. If it gets too difficult, if you start reliving it, you have to stop, you know, and you have to come in through a different way. So there's writing about trauma to go through. Trauma is not an easy thing to do. And most of the time. It's years and years later, because writing while it's going on can help you just get it out of you, but you can't really look at it from a non victim.

And, and the whole thing is to write about trauma, not as a victim, but to write about trauma. As the hero in the story as the person that either overcame the trauma or learned something to trauma. And that's the key, that's the key. So when we're writing, we're not trying to, I understand the term, but we're trying to write it as the person, as the, you know, as the person that was healed to the trauma.

Does that make sense? 


Monica:  It does. And I noticed that again, in the storytelling night, the other night that each of the women that shared their story, they were the central almost like the heroine, the survivor, the thriver in this story. 


Rebecca:  Yes. That's. That is the, the thing where we, when we do this work, Trauma, this sounds kind of weird and we're going to go into Whoa, Whoa. We'll land here for a minute, please. We love that. Right? We do so many trauma stories are held. Are you ready for this in your hips? I know that sounds weird, but like right now, if you could see me sitting on my chair, I'm sitting in kind of like this Lotus position. Right. But. In our hips, we store so many traumatic stories, even trauma that we don't even know about. So when we're working in sometimes with our small group of people, and it's harder to do this on zoom through COVID, but no presumed when we were working with stories of trauma, I'd be like, okay, people were getting into pigeon and we would get into a pigeon pose. Or we would just do some hip opening poses and just stay there for like five, six, seven minutes. Yeah, Daniel, I really, and, and it releases it. So I feel like you have to release it in your body first. And then after we release it, we just feel like we sink into it. Then we can write about it from a different place. Then they're open they're on the desk in front of you. It's there in front of you. To, to be seen and you're not afraid of it.

So it, it sounds kind of weird, but this trauma is held in our hips and also in our shoulders, which is why the breath work is so important writing. So if we kind of move through the trauma, actually again, if you could see me right now, I'm just moving, I'm moving my shoulders back and forth. Cat cow, trying to release it and then writing about it. It, it. Brings you to the front of it, rather than in the middle of it. 


Monica:  You can't see me right now, but I'm smirking. And the reason I'm smirking is because my two problem areas are my hips and my shoulders. Well, and I, and I do, I know this, you know, only because I've delved deeply into trauma as well. And of course I love. The body keeps the score and there's some amazing ratings out there. And of course, I didn't know what I had experienced as a child was trauma because I just thought it was normal. And I think a lot of people probably end up thinking that however they grew up was normal only to realize that there's, you know, Sometimes a way that, you know, it, you just have to revisit it at some point and look at it from a different perspective. You know, just a quick kind of reveal here is that my mom, I grew up, my mom had had an undiagnosed brain injury. She suffered a subarachnoid hemorrhage in 1965 and in 1965, they didn't know the things that they know about that now. And so of course being raised, you know, she had a fairly significant brain damage.

And so it, you know, it just, it has an impact, you know, as a child, there was a lot of my childhood that didn't get to, I didn't get to be a child because I was her memory and a lot of cases, 


Rebecca:  my goodness. Yeah. 


Monica:  So it, it, it provides side. And of course, some very kind of interesting dynamics and it wasn't until we discovered this.

And really talk about a revelation. It was only got it. Maybe it's eight, nine years ago now where I took her to be evaluated because I started to have flashbacks as my kids were the same age as they were growing up. And it was wild. And I'll tell you, my hips would ache and ache and ache. And I remember doing this yoga class and it was with a beloved yoga instructor that played.

Thank you. Bye Alana's Morissette. And get did that hippos while we were listening to that song and I'll tell you, the tears started to fall and I wept and I was in that pose and like, thank God I was facing a wall because there was, I mean, I can't even imagine the sounds coming out of me, but I knew what was happening was like really important.


Rebecca:  And, 


Monica:  you know, and so I'm just telling this story because I feel like, again, that is just so true and the body is amazing. The body holds the wisdom. It's amazing. Amazing to me now 


Rebecca:  it really is. So Monica, if you had in that, in that practice, in that day, would that you were just describing if you had a journal and pen in front of you and.

After that experience, if you were able to just take that pen and write and write and write, Oh my God, that would be, you know, that's where you get the juiciest the most authentic. That's where the stories come out. And that's why I tell people, Oh, you don't think you have this story? Yeah. Let's find out, you know, let's find one. So that's why I say we find the story nuggets because they're there, they are there. And when we tap into them and you write them, you find that, Oh my God, there is something even, you know, I didn't even remember the SN memories will start to, like you were explaining, you know, memories will start to just kind of pop in and you go, Oh my God, what was that?



Monica:  Well, it's almost like the story writes you at that point. 


Rebecca:  Totally. Totally. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. 


Monica:  Yeah, go ahead. 


Rebecca:  I was just going to say again, that card's faith in the process of unfolding. Like the story just takes you, it just takes you to a place that you don't even know. 


Monica:  Right. And then I imagine you just sit there in complete wonder, because you're like, I don't know where that came from, but it was magical right 


Rebecca:  now.


Monica:  Yeah. So I get so curious because now of course I'm like, okay, here we are in COVID you just took a cohort of. Six through you're halfway through that program. So am I, do you actually do yoga poses with them? Like while you're, while you're on zoom while you're meeting and then have them go, right. 


Rebecca:  Well, we absolutely, we, we meet once a month and we have a yoga retreat once a month. So it's two days, Saturday and Sunday, once a month. And we do meditations together. We do yoga classes together. We do breath work together and we'll do it and say, okay, here you go. And we'll right. Literally right after the, the breath practice or right after the meditation. And I'll give them a prompt because this is, you know, this is my thing. This is what I've been researching. And I'll find a prompt that goes with whatever it is that we're exploring. And we write right afterwards. And then, I mean, that's raw writing. That's really raw writing and. From there, you, you form it. That's when the craft of writing comes in because the writing is a practice as one thing.

But the writing as a product is another. So first you practice, you do this practice and you get all the raw stuff, and then you say, okay, what part of this is the beginning? What part of this is the middle of part of this is the end. So we actually do that work too. We do the crafting as well as the. Excavating, but yeah, twice, once a month for six months, we are in this weekend retreat, which is, you know, COVID ways it's at first I thought, Oh my gosh, I can't do this work until COVID is over. And then I just said, Oh, Rebecca, get over it. Let's just try and. It's working. I mean, it's 


Monica:  yeah. I can't tell you actually, how many zooms retreats that I've done and you would think you'd be exhausted afterwards, but it's just been an amazing, like revelation to me to be able to circle with women in this way. And there's a way, I think that we're all being invited to be of course, much more intimate and get to the heart of some of these, to some of these stories and some of these opportunities to heal. More than ever. And so it just, I don't know, you know, maybe people think I'm crazy when I say this, but I think this is happening for us as much as sometimes it's happening to us as well.

Right. I don't want to minimize that, but I there's some other deeper wisdom here that I just want to acknowledge, because I think that, you know, we, the way that we've been living is unsustainable and. I think we're starting to really see the disguised gifts here. 


Rebecca:  Absolutely. And you know, and the other thing is we have to adapt and we as women, I think we are pretty good at adapting. You know, we, we find ourselves in different situations and we figure out how to adapt, but we have to adapt as communities now. And. As our, you know, writing community, I can't meet with this group at my living room table, so we have to adapt to it in a different way. And that's okay because we, you know, you realize what's the important part of sitting at the table is it's eating popcorn and drinking tea together. No, it's the connection. And we can do that. Right. And we can do that action looking at each other through zoom. It's not ideal, but 


Monica:  it's not ideal. Okay. So Rebecca. Gotcha. I want to talk next about drum roll the inner critic. 


Rebecca:  Oh, my favorite. Yeah. 


Monica:  Yeah. My favorite 


Rebecca:  like damn inner critic. I know it's sometimes I literally feel my inner critic on my right shoulder. Like I just. Feel it pushing down and I'm like go away and I flick it off, you know, like literally physically flick it off because that, that inner critic can be. It's a killer. It's a killer. 


Monica:  Yeah. It is a killer. Talk about trauma on top of trauma. I mean the inner critic can just really, I've really had to isolate and identify not only how many I have, cause there's multiple, but figure out some way to actually picture who they are and then like shove a virtual dish. Dish cloth in their mouth or something, you know, like sit them all up on the couch and be like, 


Rebecca:  knock 


Monica:  it off. Here's a dish towel. Here's a pair of socks. Like just shut it. 


Rebecca:  Right, right. 


Monica:  But it's, it's fascinating because the, the reason I want to bring up the inner critic is that we. All have multiple. And I'll remember, I remember kind of knowing this and then forgetting it and then knowing it and forgetting it. And recently I actually did a coaching course. It was just like a little brush up course that delved specifically into the various inner critics and the common ones that most of us have. And especially for women, which I thought was so great that there was like, there's always the judge, but then there's like a hyper achiever, you know, the perfectionist, the hypervigilant one.

And so there's all these different like critics. And I'm wondering because. It's kind of like, what I want to say is nobody can avoid having them. They're just there. So I wonder how do you work with them and how do you really invite women to be with them in be in relationship with them? 


Rebecca:  Yeah. Um, You know, it goes back to what you resist persists. And if you resist the inner critic, it's just going to keep coming back and back and back. And I, I actually say you need to make friends with your inner critic. I mean, you need to just like say, Oh, you're here. What do you have to tell me today? And we write through that. We write through what inner critic.

You know, why are you here? What are you trying to tell me? And we'll right through that to the point where, and I can see this with my, with the people that I work with building, writing through exercises about the inner critic and they'll start because it comes right, because it comes to a point where you go that is frigging. So instead of just at the onset going, no, I'm not going to listen to that at all. You don't put your hands up, you go, okay. Invite them in, invite them in, let them tell me what they want to tell you right through it. And then you'll get to the point where you're saying, okay, that was really cute, but go away, you know? So you can't just resist them. You have to listen in. Very hot. You have to allow the inner critic to, to have its way to speak to you and then say, okay, thanks. I don't need you anymore. Goodbye. 


Monica:  It's such a good, great point. I love, I love what you're saying, because that is something that I think I've really learned to do is to, it's almost like they're there and like, we can, we can experience them as a hundred percent, but when we listen, we realize that they have 10%. Yeah. You know of what they're saying, that is actually kind of valid that's right. 


Rebecca:  That's right. You know, 


Monica:  which might be like, Oh, you're out of your comfort zone. And your mother, if you write about that is going to, would be like really upset. Right. And it's like, okay, Hey, thanks for sharing. But before I listened, there was just a big fear. Like, no, you cannot do that. Yeah. That's bad. That's wrong, shame, shame. Right. But when you really kind of uncover it and reveal it, the message is more like, Hey, be careful. It's more subtle. Yeah. You know, but there's, there's a way that there are these monsters when we don't really kind of go toward them and look at what, what is this inner critic really want me to know? I think so forward. 


Rebecca:  Yeah, exactly. And I think it's important to, to, as I said, acknowledge them right through them. And, and you do many, many times we end up laughing about it and the inner critic is, is why those 15 people up in that room of a hundred, why those 15 people won't raise their hand because they're in a critic at that moment, when that question was. Post is like, not just sitting on your shoulders, but they are holding them down. And they're saying, don't, you dare raise your hand. You've got nothing, you know? So it, so they can be really, really loud in different times, you know? And, and that's. And, you know, that's, that's when we say, okay, they're trying to tell you something, what are they trying to tell you? They're trying to tell you whatever, and then we'll start writing through that. And like I said, we can laugh about it. Right. 


Monica:  And it doesn't always have to be, it's not like we have to be. Feeling balanced to start writing you actually talk quite a bit about your struggle fairly openly with depression.

And that that's something that is, uh, uh, a guest who comes and visits you, maybe an unwelcome guests at times, but, but throughout your life. And I wondered if you could talk more about depression and maybe some of the other emotions people are really dealing with right now. 


Rebecca:  Yeah, depression is a big one, right? Depression is another, uh, another one of my, you know, quote unquote friends, like the inner critic that visits me. It visits me throughout. It has visited me throughout my life. And instead of. At, at one point, I really just tried to shut it down. I tried to numb through it, and then I realized that that wasn't getting me anywhere.

So it's one of those, it's a part of me. It's a part of me that I have to just say, Oh, okay. You're here. Let's see what we need to learn about yourself right now in the state of depression. And it sounds really odd to say that I welcome it in, but when it visits me, when my, when my depression. Visits me. I have to allow it. I have to allow it to visit. I have to give it the space, whether it's a day or two days or an hour, sometimes it just kind of does these quick visits and I go, Oh my God, you again, what do you want? And. And, and I just try to befriend it and say, all right, where, where here, I know who you are, you know who I am. This is not who I am, but this is something that we're going to visit a little bit. And then I'm going to ask you to move on. So I treat it more exactly like what we were talking about, the inner critic. I treat it more like somebody that. I can ask to move on. And most of the time I do that through again, I go back to my yoga practice or my meditation or my writing and through my writing or through a meditation, I can move through the depression. It's not easy. I mean, it's, it is not easy. I was on medication for a long time anti-depression medication. And when I decided that. Then, and again, I don't want to say that this is right for everyone because there's a lot of people that depression anti-depression medication is exactly right for them. But for me, it wasn't, and it took me two years to, as I say, ween from my NEDs to my map, and I was able to do that, meaning from my medication onto. My yoga mat and through my writing to deal with my depression, it's it was a difficult, difficult period. And it's not over, it keeps coming back, uh, now and then, and when it does a, I just say, all right, what, what are we here for now? And I'll. As I said right through it. 


Monica:  Yeah. I love that piece. You said, but depression doesn't always come when things are falling apart. Sometimes it comes when things need to be broken apart. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's true. You know, I too suffered from depression and have on and off in my life and you know, it it's that practice of self love and self nurturing is it's. I think for the longest time it was so counterintuitive, you know, to actually befriend myself in my messiest hardest moments. And yet that is exactly what we are called to do. In fact, I remember getting an email last week from Lynn twist the soul of money. And it was, you know, I think the poem was the guest house by Rumi. I love that. I know. I know if I can find it. Yeah, I'll read it before the end, but, but it is right. It's like these are guests and they'll move.

They'll move on in good time. But there's there's wisdom. I think sometimes in our emotions that are asking us to tune in and listen, and from a different place, because we were talking about the mind and how the mind has a tendency. To intellectualize everything, first of all, and to look for logic. And that can be actually not helpful at times because actually the message is coming from a deeper place in the body or the spirit even. And I think that as we learn to tune in, in the way that you're, you know, working in this way, that it's an integrative process, that it becomes that the writing becomes a bridge to. Perhaps integrating some of these parts of ourselves that maybe have not been allowed to be, to belong to each other. 


Rebecca:  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a beautiful way to put it. It really is. Um, you know, the depression. As I said in that, then you just, you know, said that line too, that sometimes it comes when everything is going great. You know, when your life on the outside, everything is great. And all of a sudden I get this physical because for me it manifests very physically as well.

I get this physical feeling like, Oh boy, You know, here, come here this right here. It is, it is. And people will say, but why everything is good? And you know, we want to, you have to be sad about, and I'm like, no, no, no. Depression is not sadness. Those are two separate things. You know, this is something else. This is something that it doesn't, it doesn't necessarily come when things are, are sad or when you're feeling sad about something. It comes when it needs to come. It comes when it needs. For me, it comes when there's something that needs to be broken apart. 


Monica:  Yeah. And there's that wisdom, right? Sometimes it's, even if I look at what's happening to us with, with COVID the COVID experience, something needs to be broken apart.

A lot of people are feeling a lot of feelings and depression I think is, is a big one. 


Rebecca:  Absolutely. And loneliness, you know, that's the other one that's really coming apart, uh, coming forward right now. And people are realizing how much we need each other. Cause you're, you can go on in life just pretending that you need people. But here we are in this place where no, no, no, you need people, you know, you need to connect with, with other people. And I was saying to a friend of mine called me yesterday. I can't go back to James Jaylen. He, I used to call him my James Taylor husband, because every time I would go to a concert, most of the time at Tanglewood, he and I just would like somehow be seated next to the seating next to each other. In the second or the third row, of course. And of course, so Craig and I will be like, Oh Craig, hi, he was my JT husband. Cause my husband is kind of sick of going to James Taylor concerts, to be honest. So, so Craig was my James Taylor husband. And now of course I had tickets this year for two concerts and both of them were canceled.

I haven't seen my James Taylor husband. So yesterday out of the blue and I don't have like his, you know, I don't call him at any other time during the year, we only see each other at concerts. So yesterday out of the blue, I got a phone call from, from him and he relocated to Florida. He used to live in Connecticut and we had this great conversation about. You know, just life and James Taylor and what are you doing? And blah, blah, blah. And we hung up the phone and I thought, you know, that is the only time that a conversation that you could literally pick up the phone and know that the other person on the, the person at the other end of the phone knows exactly like you're in the same place. Both dealing with COVID, we're both dealing with our lives, turning upside down. We're both dealing with things that we'd never dealt with before. So you can pick up the phone and call somebody that you haven't talked to in three years, and you can just say, Hey, how you doing? And they will answer how you doing in this place of sameness in this place. How has COVID affected you? So we are so together right now. It's just bizarre. 


Monica:  It is sorry. And it's, and it also occurs to me as this opportunity in a weird way to really lean into ways of like you were suggesting connecting and, you know, Exploring and looking at the various ways or forms of self expression and some of those being of course, writing music, yoga movement. There's there's, I think there's so much available to us, but we've been so busy, busy, busy that we haven't really paused long enough to really look at what are we. Intentionally wanting, what are we desiring? What w what are we creating? And I think that. These are strange times. I think, talk about writing.

I think there'll be written about for, I mean, talk about some material, 


Rebecca:  right? Yeah, absolutely. In, in March when it first hit, you know, when we first got that locked down, just I woke up one morning, you know, like you, I'm just, I, I try to just really be open to what the spirit will guide me to do. And I woke up one morning and I was like Corona Chronicles, and I wrote. I, I just dove in to my writing community and I'm like, okay, people, we need to write about this. And so I started this group called Corona Chronicles and it started growing and growing and growing. And every day I would give this group of people and they were half of them. Weren't had never written before.

I would give them a prompt and we would say, and let's write about that. And it was something to do with your life during this Corona times. And. And it was just so interesting because the things that people thought about when they were five or six or seven years old are coming up again now, because exactly like you say, we're all in this place where we're given the time to.

To do things or to time to do nothing actually. And what do we, what are we doing with it? We're remembering, remembering who we are. We remembering who, you know, we want to be, we're remembering our jewels and the things that came out in that Toronto Chronicles group I had. It lasted, but we did it from March through June, actually.

So a few months and the things that came up, people thought people were telling me, I forgot all about this. I forgot that I used to yeah. Have to, you know, whatever it was. But now we have this time. People, you know, connecting with their kids in different ways. My son and I started watching jeopardy and it was so sad, Alex Trebek died, but we, we started watching jeopardy and I never knew that that was something that he liked, you know, this trivial number, trivial pursuit. Yes. Yeah. Right. And that's kind of what jeopardy was. And every night we'd be like, Oh, seven 30 that's watch jeopardy. So we were connecting in a whole different way and it was just. It's just really interesting how those things have come up. 


Monica:  Yeah, it sure is. It really is. I wonder too, you know, you probably have your own writing practice and I'm curious if do you write every day?

Like how do you kind of, what's your process and what's your practice? 


Rebecca:  Um, yeah, my practices, I mean, I've been doing this for many, many years, but. I do write every day, usually first thing in the morning. And I say usually because COVID times nothing or something, typically I get up, I make myself a hot cup of water with some lemon while it's cooling off, I'll go to my own space and I'll meditate for. 10 minutes, eight, 10 minutes. Right after I meditate, I'll take my journal and I'll write 10 minutes. So my practice is a 20 minute practice every morning, 10 minutes of meditation directly followed by 10 minutes of writing. And that's my writing practice. Later in the day, I'll move on to my writing product, whatever that is. I just finished writing this book about. The fan, uh, that's why we're here. It's a collection of stories of fans, of James Taylor and why his music has connected with them. And so right now I'm in the editing process of that. I'm editing this book. And so I separate the practice from the product. Every day, every day without fail. I do my practice and sometimes it's a 10 minute meditation. Sometimes it's a 10 minute breath practice. Sometimes it's a 10 minute yoga practice immediately followed by a 10 minute writing practice. And then later I'll an hour or two hours, whatever time that I have to work on my product and my product might be working on my memoir, which I'm also editing right now. It's almost done or working on. My students' work or whatever that is, but the practice is a non-negotiable the practice is non-negotiable and sometimes something will come out in that practice in those 10 minutes, where I go, Ooh, that's something I need to write more about. And then they'll take a little sticky note or a little post-it note and just stick it in the journal. So maybe I'll go back to it. But most of the time, I would say 90% of the time, the practice is really just. Know a word vomit or whatever, you know, just to get it out just to get it out. So then I can move on to the product writing. 


Monica:  Okay. Talk about a catalyst for revelations, right? I mean, to do these, to do this as a practice, it's really what I call, you know, the, the, the work of revealing, you know, it's, it's the work 
where you can really kind of start to. Discover explore unveil gems that are already there. See something in a different perspective or through a different lens or, you know, and it, I love that. And of course, for our listeners who are interested in. Uh, finding out more about Rebecca's programs, Rebecca, I'd love for you to just kind of direct them where they can find you.


Rebecca:  Sure. Yeah. Wonderful. Uh, right now I do offer a three, a free practice, three days of a yoga grading practice for free. And so you would get for three days, this. Right. Yoga granting practice, which will be either a meditation or breath work or something and a prompt. And then I invite you to the yoga writing group on Facebook, where people share what they've written.

And that is just so beautiful to see people just share what they've, you know what? They've come, what has come out? So there's. During this three-day practice. And then of course the other program that I offer is a 21 day practice. So if you really want to do it, it takes about three weeks to get into a habit as you know, Monica.

So, so I offer three days for free just to see if you like it. And then if you do, you can take the 21 K. Um, but it's. Yoga writing.com, why don't GIC writing.com. And as soon as you get onto the website, you'll see, it says, sign up for the three free day thing and you just check it out and see what it does. And you join. You can join my writing group on Facebook and that's also free. And lots of people share what they've written. Lots of people, comment. I mean, there's a lot, there's a lot happening there and sometimes I'll just read through it and I'll cry or I'll laugh or I'll comment, you know, there's just such beautiful sharing. Of stories that are coming out there. So, so yeah. 


Monica:  Yeah. And it sounds like the exact type of thing where you could just kind of dip your toe in and see if it's for you. Right, 


Rebecca:  exactly. Right. Yeah. That's exactly right. And, and just kind of see what it's all about. Cause it's kind of hard to imagine. It's one of those things where, unless you're doing it, unless you do it, you don't really know what. What it is. So it's that going out of town? 


Monica:  I love that. Okay. And then, is there any question that, you know, I haven't asked that you'd love to share with our, with our audience or anybody listening, you know, that you might. I, I guess, leave with a, with a thought or a prompt, whatever you want. 


Rebecca:  Um, I think let's see.

I just really want to emphasize, we, we said it a couple of times about everybody has a story. Everybody has multiple stories and sometimes the thing that stops you from writing them is thinking that. It's not interesting. It's not that important. Nobody cares. It's just, you, you know, you're, you're sick of it. And it's, you know, we get tired of our own stories. We get tired of our own stories. We live with ourselves every single day. But when you, when you lit let these stories out, when you share them, when you write them, you're going to find somebody on the other. And that will find that peace and connect and it'll make a difference in their life. So. You do have a story. Everybody does, and it is worth sharing. It is worth telling. And if, if I can help in any way help you find those little nuggets of stories, that's what my passion is. 


Monica:  I love that. Well, and as promised I found the poem, the guest house, so I'll read it and then we'll say goodbye.


Rebecca:  Thank you, Monica. 


Monica:  Thank you. 


Rebecca:  And it's such a fan of this podcast, as you know, for so long now I look forward to the new episodes. So I was just so thrilled when you asked me to 


Monica:  join you. Oh my gosh. It just, it was inevitable, Rebecca. It was inevitable. So I feel like our paths have been, been trying to cross ever since actually the salvation cafe this time, last 


Rebecca:  year. Right. I spoke at that first meeting. Yes. 


Monica:  And I think Kim fuller for bringing us together. And so here it is the guest house by Rumi. This being human is a guest house every morning, a new arrival, a joy, a depression, a meanness. Some momentary awareness comes as an unexpected visitor, welcome and entertain them all. Even if they're a crowd of sorrows who violently sweep your house empty of its furniture, still treat each guest honorably. He may be clearing you out for some new delight. The dark thought, the shame, the malice. Meet them at the door, laughing and invite them in, be grateful for whoever comes because each has been sent. As a guide from beyond. Beautiful. That, just that, that was, that was a perfect, that was the purpose, right? For, for your writing process. And again, I just want to honor you for your work in the world and for this beautiful, expansive conversation and to our listeners. Of course. Thank you again for your generous listening and more to be revealed.


Rebecca:  Thank you, Monica.


Monica:  We hope you enjoyed this episode. For more information, please visit us@jointherevelation.com and be sure to download our free gift, subscribe to our mailing list or leave us a review on iTunes. We thank you for your generous listening and as always more to be revealed.