153 Joel Green === Monica: Welcome to the Revelation Project podcast. I'm Monica Rogers, and this podcast is intended to disrupt the trans of unworthiness and to guide women to remember and reveal the truth of who we are. We say that life is a revelation project and what gets revealed gets healed. Hello, everyone. Them to another episode of the Revelation Project podcast. You're in for a treat today because I have got Joel Green, who is the CEO of Pro-Level Training, the national Director of Nike Sports Camp, and a former professional basketball player, and also a renowned motivational speaker. Here with us today after retiring from professional basketball, Joel Green founded pro level training plt, which has become a seven figure company. He's a thought leader in the motivational category, and he has a BA in psychology from Ryder University, which has helped to fuel his ambition to inspire others. He has developed a reputation for personal excellence and motivational talks that contribute tangible advice for attaining. Desired goals and many of the messages he has delivered are conveyed in his first book, which just came out this past September called Filtering. And Filtering is also, and let me read you the second aspect of it, filtering the way to extract strength from the struggle. And that was the part of his biography that really struck me because as all of you know, one of my favorite things that I talk about is extracting, you know, strength or the grit that makes the pearl. So the strength from the struggle. And so the fact that he's released it just really in the last month, I'm just have a huge grin on my face because I. How challenging it is to put a book out there, but as we were just discussing, the real work has begun as he gets out here and promotes it out in the world. So welcome, Joel. Joel: Monica, thanks so much for having me me on thank you. Monica: Yeah. Oh my gosh, I enjoyed reading it so much, and I especially love, you know, just some of the little. The little storytelling that you did just about bringing your son in and experiencing yourself even as an athlete or all of the ways in which these little events in your life all added up to what became the book and, and just now how you. Have really dedicated your life in service to others and brought so much, I would call them antidotes. Joel: Mm-hmm. Monica: it's, it's almost like a way for people to look at things through a certain lens in order to turn around what they're seeing and turn any obstacle into an opportunity, which frankly is a gift. Like once you get that, you can do that. Every single challenge. So I'd love to just have you start out by telling our listeners just a little bit about your life in terms of the lens of struggle and then when you got to the point where you started flipping it. Joel: Yeah, I mean, ear, early on I didn't do that, you know? Um, but early on, I mean, I say before the age of 10, I didn't. Beyond that point. Um, I began to, I felt like I had to see things from a different angle because, you know, the cyclic pattern of life just wasn't working out the way I, I took it in and, and then related, you know, growing up in an abandoned house in Philadelphia, that's a, a very humbling experience in itself, you know, to begin with. And, and being around violence during the crack era, things like that was. It was difficult, and as a child, fortunately I had short term memory as most kids do. You know, you kind of go through something. Then on the surface you get over it, but you still feel it, you know, especially the trauma from it. I was 10 feet away from a shooting when I was six, and it just, you know, had weapons pulled out on me around the same age. So going through things like that, it was all I felt initially was the. But as things just kept happening, and not that everything was just terrible and bad, but as things continued to happen and that was ideal in my eyes and my viewpoint, I told myself I had to start getting something from it. And obviously I had some help from family saying, look, you gotta get something from this stuff, man. You're complaining about it too much. You know you're going through it, you might get something from it. And I began really looking at things differently and started seeing, struggle as an asset. Yeah. To be honest with you, and saying, okay, every time I've struggled, I've been better after the struggle. And so I began embracing these moments where I'm like, okay, this is tough, but you know, Last time I went through something tough, I was actually better on the other side of it. Let me actually not complain about it this time and actually lean into it and see what I can actually take from it and apply it to actually propel me through even, even faster. And so I began finding motivation within struggle from the struggle itself. So as opposed to trying to ignore the struggle. Look away from the struggle as so many of us do, because it hurts. It's painful. So why are we gonna look towards something that's painful? Monica: Yeah Joel: why are we gonna lean into something that hurts? But I've found that when I've done that and I've helped other people to do it, it actually doesn't hurt you as much as it did when you're trying to run from it. You know? You give it power. When you run from it, you're allowing it to chase. But when you face it, you actually, you stand up to it just like, you know, almost as if it was a bully. You know, once you stand up to the bully, bully tends to back down a little bit, uh, especially over time. So that's how I began treating struggle, you know, difficulties, you know, obstacles and challenges. I began facing them and again, you know, filtering them. You know, just coming up with this method that I came up with for myself to really break down life, that was so overwhelming for me. Monica: Mm-hmm. Joel: had to find a way to break it down and make it more manageable for myself. That's what this whole filtering method and process came from. Monica: Well, I was gonna say too, like, just like what you say is it's not about going through, but growing through each situation. Absolutely. Right. And just, just even that, just even that simple adjustment. And I love what. The person who really started helping you make those little tweaks and adjustments. Coach Jackson. Yeah. Where it was like, right. It's just like this subtle shift. Exactly. It's so subtle and yet it made such a huge difference. Amazing. And so, right. It's like, I loved how you took these sports metaphors and brought them to life because Coach Jackson would be like, you'd be, you know, taking shots from all these different places on the court, and if you were missing it, he'd just say, make the adjustment. That's all he had to say to you. And you knew what that meant. And so it was like, then you started doing it in your life. So it's like when you're encountering a relationship difficulty, it's like, make the adjustment. What is it here? Right. Joel: Exactly. I mean, again, you take shots in life as well. You go after different things. You go for it. You take your shot, and if you don't get it, you fall short. You miss. Just like you said, make the adjustment. Monica: Make the adjustment. Make the adjustment. Yeah. Mrs. Versus makes mm-hmm. like that was also a big distinction. And, and so you're gonna make some shots. Make all the shots, and you might miss some, right. It's like, but I think your point is like, but. You gotta, you're gonna make some as well, right? So it's like, it's identifying and, and I loved this piece too because there was so much here that I was getting so much out of, really taking a look at what we care about. And understanding that, then that's where I'm gonna put my focus and my energy is based on what I care about. And if it falls outside of that, it's just not as important. Joel: Exactly. Exactly. That's, that's what it's about. Monica: All right. I love this and. So , so everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth , right? Right. Joel: Exactly. Monica: Right, right. So, so tell me more about that. Yeah, I mean, Joel: We go into everything we go into with some, hopefully with some mild plan or some sort of plan in place, but the moment that thing, that relationship or whatever goes wrong, or just you get blindside. Then so often we abort. Yeah. The plan, we abandon, abandon ship and we just like, okay, I'm out. It's like, wait a second. You know, you actually can stay in the fight. You know, just find, again, find some adjustments to make. , you know, lean into this fight a little bit. Face it Monica: mm-hmm. Joel: and say, okay, how, what, what adjustments can I make? How can I not get punched in the mouth the next time? You know, but you'll never figure that out if every time you, you know, figuratively get punched in the mouth. If you just ran every time you got punched about, yeah. If you just aborted every time, you know, you get blindsided by a situation or missing a situation, you get blindsided. It's like, I'm gonna get out. You'll never figure out how to get through if you always get out. That's the mindset that people have to, you know, accept and say, okay, I, I must get through this. And if you tell yourself you must to or you need to, then you will get through it and you'll figure out ways you'll begin to make those adjustments, that subconscious part yourself. Know so much more than you even are aware that, you know, will begin to help you and assist you if you just stick with it and just find, you know, look to find some ways to get Monica: through it. It's so true. And for our listeners, you know, and this doesn't give away, I mean, there's so many great little stories in this book, but I would love it if you share with our listeners just the story that really stuck with you. About Muhammad Ali and George Foreman. It's kind of towards the beginning of the book, but where this whole, I just thought it was such a cool little story and where it shifted kind of, cuz everybody was, thought they were watching one thing, but really it ended up being something else. So do you mind sharing that story? Joel: I don't mind at all. It, it's something that I grew up watching, you know, obviously that, that was before I was even born and, but I grew up in a, in a boxing household. My, my father used to box, my brother used to box my uncle box, and I just always loved boxing. Muhammad Ali was, you know, a champion in my household. And sugar along with Sugar Ray Leonard back in the day. And seeing this fight on, on tape when I was younger, you know, was, wow, this is crazy. Like, wait, Muhammad Ali's getting beat up, like, what's going on? And I love George Foreman too, you know, he was a champion in my eyes. But seeing Muhammad Ali just get dominated this fight was, it was disappointing, I'll be honest. It was like, whoa. This is a big fight that I'm watching. I know it took place, you know, decades before, but I'm watching it for first time when I was younger and was upset. I remember I was like, yeah, I'm sitting down, sitting on the floor. I remember watching it, you know, the tape of my father and both my brothers and like, wow, what's going on? Monica: Yeah, you're like, come on, like you're better than this. Like, why are you just taking it? Yeah, Joel: Right. He, he literally is just getting beat up, you know, the entire. And George Foreman just had him up against the ropes and he just wailing away at him. Power punch after power punch. And Ali not even swinging back at all. And the, the crazy part is you, you still saw Ali from time to time. Smile. It's like, okay, what's going on? You know, you could, you, you knew once I watched it back a few times, I'm like, something's up. Especially once I knew the end result. You know, you look back and you, you see him smile, you see his mouthpiece smiling a little bit. He's like, whoa, something's going on while he's getting beat up. Monica: Yeah. Joel: And you know, all of a sudden later more into the fight, those power punches from George Foreman just begin to get slow. Uh, you know, Ali still just bouncing up against the ropes, you know, just letting him hit him, protecting this rib cage, but getting hit, and all of a sudden those PowerPoint just turned into love taps and he was in that moment saying, okay, I'm the older fighter, George Foreman is the much younger up and coming fighter. He's powerful. He's bigger than me. He's stronger than me. If I go toe to toe with him this entire fight, I'm going to lose. Monica: Mm-hmm. Joel: So he decided to say, okay, I'm going to just let him beat himself and wear himself out. And he found out how to make an adjustment. Amids a very difficult and challenging situation while his. Was actually yelling at Ali. Fight, fight. Get in there. He said, no, I'm going to actually let him tire himself out. And next thing you know, George Foreman became so slow with his punches, Ali conserved and saved his energy, that whole fight for one pouncing moment. And he was able to filter that moment right then and there amidst the situation and say, okay, very soon I'm gonna pounce on this guy and get him and all of a sudden, within a nine second stretch, When George Foreman was completely burnt out from all those punches that Ali just was taking, Ali saved that energy up, got him within nine seconds, foreman was on the mat. Ali won. And that's, that's what referred to as the Ropa Dope, you know now. And it was amazing to watch and just to really see Allie's perspective after the fact was like, wow, he really. Filtered that while it was going on. Monica: While it was happening, while Joel: that was the magic of that moment. Because so often we go through difficulties and we don't get the answer until hindsight tells us later on like, ah, I should have done that. But Ali figured it out during that fight. If I make this adjustment, I will. I'm gonna win. And he made the adjustment during the fight. We go through all these different fights of life and we're so emotionally distracted that emotion clouds the moment that we're in. So we don't see things clearly in other perspectives. His emotions weren't, in a way, he didn't allow for the emotions from his cornerman to get in the way. He clearly saw what was in front of him. He saw life and said, okay, I can see this from four different perspectives. This is a good one right here. I'm gonna choose that one. And I'm. Ad: What if you could shave 15 to 20 hours off of your work week with proven copy templates and use relational marketing psychology to drastically increase your impact and your sales results? Sage has tested these methods for selling online for over 10 years and over 400 copywriting projects. They work for anyone with a business idea, including e-commerce folks, course creators. Copywriters, coaches, designers, social media, ad managers, and digital service providers. These techniques work even if you wanna get started in online business. Even if technology makes you wanna cry in a corner, and even if you only have 30 minutes a day to implement, the strategies she shares will help you live your life outside of screen time, even if you don't have a big marketing budget. I love it, and I think you'll love it too. You can apply for your two week trial by going to www.sagepolaris.com/monica using. Revelation to get started for just $7. With Sage Polaris's. Copy template membership. That's www.sagepolaris.com/monica. Then use code Revelation to get started for just $7 with Sage Polaris's. Copy template membership. Monica: Do you think, Joel, that there is a time in or I. You know, reflect this back at you, that there was a time where everything just clicked and because you, what you were just saying is so true, right? It's like we face fight after fight, after fight, after fight, and oftentimes we'll get hooked by the same kind of things, right? We get so in our heads and we get, a lot of times what I've noticed is. It's like self abuse. Like I, not only am I getting beat up out there, but now I'm beating myself up for getting beat up and I'm so consumed with like the getting beat up that I actually can't see the forest through the trees in that moment. I can't see past that. And so what I'm hearing you saying is that this metaphor and what Muhammad Ali did in that moment was he just accepted that getting your butt. You know, is part of life. Exactly. And he was looking for where he could have an advantage or where he could create a strategy. Mm-hmm. in order to kind of get where he needed to get. So I'm wondering like what. , what was the event in your life where everything just started turning and you started seeing things more clearly where you developed the discipline to not let the emotion and that? Place where you beat yourself up. It's like, for me, something turned. And had you noticed something that, that became like the gem that you took into every challenge from that point forward? Do you have like a, an event? Joel: I do. Uh, it was back in 2016, so was going through a very rocky moment, uh, in my marriage and I was just, I was. I was no longer a professional athlete and just, you know, seeking a way of life now, a father, now a husband, and, and just trying to figure things out. I had all these questions about life. Um, I saw myself as already a pretty knowledgeable person on things, but I just still felt like I didn't know so much and I reassessed my life and just wrote down all these goals. I'm like, okay, have all these goals for myself and for my family. I don't even know about half of these goals that I want to attain. I don't even have knowledge on these different topics of these areas. So I just began reading and just finding as many mentors as possible. I began, I'll never forget, I ordered, you know, nine books at once and I started reading nine books every three weeks. And I put myself on this reading schedule to where I just literally, I transformed. And again, this was about six, just over six years ago, that's when I began writing my. Filtering. You know, as I began getting all these answers to life and just to my, my own problems and questions that I had, I said, wow. And I began speaking even more from the stage and just regurgitating different things. I was taking in and speaking it from my lens and through my perspective, and I began seeing that I literally struggle, provides the best strategy. Monica: Mm-hmm. Joel: like when you're struggling through something, that's when you figure life. It's not when things are smooth, it's not when the, the, the seeds are smooth that, you know, again, that sailor becomes the best sailor. It's like, no, when things are difficult, that's when you figure out the best strategies of how to get through, how to get around, how to get over, how to get under some situations just to get to the other side. So I began embracing the struggles, like, okay, it actually refines me. It makes me better, and it helped me to realize, , all of the, the difficulties and the bad stuff that exists. We weren't put here to make all of that bad stuff good. The bad stuff was put here to actually help make us better , to help improve us, to help refine us. And the moment I accepted that mentality, I said, let's do it. You know, so it's, I'm not gonna say bringing the bad stuff on. No. However, when I get punched in the, I'm not gonna abandon it because I know I'm gonna figure out how to fight. I'm gonna figure out some way to get through this thing, Monica: Okay? Okay. So I'm gonna stop you right there because what I wanna point out to my listeners is, He's saying, I'm not gonna abandon it. But what he's really saying is I'm not gonna abandon myself. Joel: Exactly. Absolutely. Yep. Monica: Because there's a tendency for us to abandon ourselves. That's what I mean when I say, when. When I turn and I start beating myself up. That's self abandonment. Joel: Exactly. Monica: And when you do that, you cannot find the strategy in the struggle. Joel: Nope. Monica: And you can't find the, it's. That clouded mentality, and we could call it emotion, but really what it is, is self abuse. Joel: Absolutely. Monica: It's self abuse and because the emotion is, I'm not good enough. I can't, I'm stupid for having gotten myself in this situation, like, why, why aren't I better? It's like it's adding insult to injury in that moment. You're already getting beat. Joel: Exactly. Monica: But. The struggle is just part of life and all that life is continually inviting us to do is to actually see that the struggle is there for us, Joel: literally work for us. Monica: It's literally working for us, and we stop abandoning ourselves in that moment where we actually turn to ourselves and we say, you got. You can do this. Like we got this. We can take a beating right now. And you know, see our way through this, you know, we can learn from this experience and we can use it to our advantage later. And that is this resilience piece that you model so brilliantly. You have this resilience in your spirit and it's taught you time and time again to bring. This antidote to others, and that's what has you get up on that stage because everybody experiences challenges, and so if you don't have to know their specific exquisite pain, all you need to know is we all have that. Exquisite pain in some way, shape or form in our lives. And that is not quantifiable. Pain is pain. Exactly. You know, he didn't have worse pain than she had. Like pain is pain. There are certain situations that have advantages and there are certain oppressive systems that create advantages for other people. There's also a way that we can tend to get very clouded in our anger about disparities, whether it be racial disparities or whether it be gender disparities. But if we let ourselves get so consumed with the emotion around it, we can't then see our way through and we can't get the strategy out of the struggle Joel: And that that's the prize. I, I really feel that. And again, this is not coming from some super optimist. That's not who I am. Monica: Thank you. Because I like enough dragging me to the bright side, right? Joel: Like Right. It's not, it's not about that Monica: Uhuh Joel: it's, it's, it's just a, it's the fact that every struggle has fruit, every problem has it, it's so many solutions are right within the problem. And again, this is, I promise, I'm. This, this optimist, optimistic person is really that I've seen enough, you know, psychic patterns of life to where things didn't go right. I've been at the point to where I've complained about those things, complained about 'em, complained about 'em, and I got nothing from those situations. Other situations don't go right. I don't complain about those. I lean into those and I get something from them, and each time I do that, I grow. I get. So I made a choice saying, okay, I have a choice to complain or correct by making some adjustments. And when I choose that side, I'm, I just continue to get better as an individual, as a man, the anxiety begins to go away. That's been something to where I struggled with that I didn't even know I was struggling with back in 2016, trying to figure out who I am besides just this athlete, you know, stuff like that. And I began just really assess. You what this thing called anxiety was. I felt like I was bred for it. As an athlete, I could step to the free throw line and make any shot with zero, you know, o clock, and it felt no pressure, but I just realized, okay, anxiety is okay. Yeah, I'm imperfect. It was me trying to be perfect and me trying to. Live on this side of the spectrum and that side of the spectrum at the same time. And that, that duality threw me off trying to worry about the future while I was in the present. And it's like, dude, be still. Stay where you are. Be where you are and stop trying to be multiple people. It's funny cuz I, this is how I look at anxiety. You're gonna laugh, but you know, I would say, I'm either gonna be Batman or I'm gonna be joker, but I refuse to be two-faced. So like Batman, he was cool being the good guy. Monica: Mm-hmm. Joel: right? Joker was fine. Being the bad guy, he knew he was crazy. He decided to roll that way and say, okay, that's what it is. But Toothface. He used to be good. Mm-hmm. , but now he's out here acting bad, but still believing in being good. That's where that internal conflict and anxiety came from for him, because his actions and his feelings weren't in alignment with his belief system. Mm. And so many times when that happens with us, it's like, ah, I'm trying to be this, but I feel that way. I believe in God and I can do all things like you say all this stuff, but when trouble comes, Who's gonna help me? Yeah. I can't do this. But you were just saying you believe you can do all things through like in that duality is so detrimental to us to where it's like, choose one side or another. And for me, I had to choose to be this and give myself less options because the options confused me. Right? The less options I had, the less anxiety I had. I said, I'm gonna be this to the best of my ability and be upright as much as I. And be comfortable and accept any imperfections that comes along with it. Monica: Yeah. Well, and what I'm also hearing is that we can have this tendency to be like, I think we've all just been, we've seen the impact of what I'll call spiritual bypassing, where everybody's like, well look on the bright side. Joel: Right? Right. Monica: Be this optimist. But I think when you do get to a point where you. Turn challenges into opportunities. It kind of tips into this realm that I'll call grounded optimism. It's the place where. you allow, it's like you're not bypassing, you're not kind of like out in the ethers, like Joel: mm-hmm. Monica: Not part of reality, but you kind of ground into yourself where you're no longer abandoning yourself and you're just having like real talk with yourself and you, you get really impeccable with paying attention to the words you're speaking and the actions. And whether or not they're aligned with the words that you're speaking, and when you get into that alignment, It's like that's when you become present. Joel: Mm-hmm. Monica: .And when you're present, you no longer have that duality like, cuz this the duality that's in constant conflict because you're thinking about who you should be. Joel: Right. Monica: Versus how you feel. So there's something there for me also about, Making sure too, that we don't bypass, cuz we were just talking about the emotions. But if we get hooked by the emotions, we can't see the strategy and the struggle, but I wanna make sure that I'm also not bypassing the emotions cuz we're allowed to have them. Yeah, and this is the part that I think you're really great at, Joel, is. , I think about who you are being to these young kids and especially these young men. These young boys, and I think that sometimes the, I'm just gonna call it what it is, the white patriarchal double bind, right? The man box. Sure. For men, let's call it is like, I mean, we can look at what it is for women and black women, and I could go there all day long, but when I really think about what it means for boys and young men and black boys and black men and men of color, there is a, I mean, talk about. The Sheerest edge where, I mean, we're already not allowed to have our emotions in this society, but we've got, we've got them, you know? Joel: Mm-hmm. Monica: Like we've got them. So what would your advice be for these boys? Because like I watch my. , my guys struggle and it's like, and actually the big struggle is between the emotion, which is something I think we're surfacing here. Joel: Mm-hmm. Monica: and the motivation. Yeah. Right. And it's like those two things seem to be the conflict all the time. So I'm like getting curious about that with you. Joel: Well, I mean, I know as a man and, and talks with, again, a lot of. You know, my age older and a ton who are much younger as far as the kids that I may work with, you know, we're, we've all in some form of fashion you can say, taught or conditioned to not cry. Monica: Mm-hmm. Joel: Right. You know, I, I was told, Hey, stop crying, you know, by either may have been my father or my brothers, you know, growing up in my household. And it was just that, that was how you develop. I guess you can say emotional toughness, you know, if you wanna label it or anything. You're taught that as a man because you're bred to be a protector. Monica: Mm-hmm. Joel: So if the protector or the leader or the captain of the ship is crying all the time, then those who are following won't respect the lead. Monica: Mm-hmm. Joel: So it's like, just to get to the foundation of this thing as a man, I feel like that's, We've been bred and and groomed this way because we're being groomed to be leaders. So for myself, it wasn't until I just had to be more transparent, I'll be honest with you, with myself just looking in the mirror and being able to say, this is who I actually am. Monica: Yeah. Joel: I allowed myself to feel things more, I allowed myself to be more emotional. And I've told my son now with him, you know, he is nine years old. I don't want him always crying. No. Still, because I don't want for him to take that everywhere he goes in the world, because some things you do have to still face. Monica: Mm-hmm. Joel: And not automatically stand down to and cry about or complain about. So I teach him now how to make adjustments as opposed to saying, I lose. Right. You, you know what I mean? Because a lot of. If you just say you just stand down anytime. Again, you're punched in the mouth, then you never figure out if you just say, I lose and you cry. Yeah, no. We have to figure out a way to win. So with me talking to a lot of young men all the time, I talk to 'em about adjustments all of the time because that's what will get us to the next level. That's how we'll level up when I'm talking to people of color. We talk about all the time how to level up. You know, again, name of my company is pro-level training, so obviously it was rooted in sports, but now when I'm talking it's pro-level mental training. It's all sorts of things where I just teach people how to level up and when I go back to the inner cities and talk, I just let them know that so much of what you see and what's been given to you and given to us in the educational systems, You know, it's not all there is, there's a whole lot more out there. Yeah. We've been restricted. I'm being honest. I've, I've, I've seen it, you know, as a child. Cause I went to the school to school in the inner city and my last year I went to school in the suburbs and my mind was blown. It was. A revelation, Monica: Like two different worlds. Joel: Oh my goodness. It was literally, and it, and it was, it was saddening because I went to school in Philadelphia my entire life. Monica: Mm-hmm. Joel: And then I went to the suburbs my, that one year as a senior. And I'm like, there was so much we weren't getting and it was, again, it was saddening. So when I'm going back to the inner city now to speak wherever I'm talking, I give them everything. that I picked up on outside of the city, they're already gonna get what they're going get within the city. So I give them everything else. Yeah. And so it, it, it is again, emotionally, especially when talking to young boys, I just try to tell them, look, you can't express yourself. It's okay. You know what I mean? Let it out. Let me know. It's cool. You can tell me. Yeah. I, I've told too many kids that, you know, tell me then, all right. I'm not gonna judge you. Tell me. Cry it out. I've, I've had so many kids cry with, , you know, just cause I let them know, Hey, it's okay right here. Let it out. Yeah. You know, it, it's a tough thing sometimes because you still feel like you have to protect those around you as a, as a young boy. As a young man, and you don't want to have that be displayed all of the time, you know, like, yeah. Monica: Well, what I was, what I'm really relating to is this, If we kind of put it in the realm of games, right? There's win and there's lose. Mm. And we can all relate to the fact that whether we played sports or our kids played sports, the, the question we tend to ask our kids is, how'd it go, you know, in the game. And it's like, did you win? Joel: Yeah. Monica: Or did you lose as if those are the only two options. Exactly. Joel: And there's this whole range in between about not that. Right, exactly right. That has nothing to do with whether you won or you, you lost. I find that that same metaphor works in life. We have this attitude about life as if we're winning it or losing it or lose, right, and nothing in between. Monica: And it's, well, wait a minute. This is not the name of the game. Joel: It's a whole depreciated journey that we took to get to that end. And we pay no mind to it because Monica: We pay no mind to it. And then we measure ourselves on the stick of one or lost. Joel: That's deep. Exactly right. Monica: And so where I really love. You know where filtering comes in is looking at all of these absolutes that you're talking about, and what you're saying is there is this whole range in between of adjustments that get made to play the game of life, and it's not actually about. You're gonna win some and you're gonna lose some. And it's not even about that. It's about your personal strategy through your personal struggle. Right. And that's the story. Joel: It's about becoming, and that's really what it boils down to. And it's like if you skip over everything that you just mentioned, you know those absolute, like just the end. If that's your focus, you literally. Can go through the same patterns your whole life and never become anyone new, you won't grow. Monica: Well, guess what? Cuz if you win all the time, I mean right. Like, it doesn't make your character any better. It doesn't make you better at life, like Right. It's, it's just so interesting to me the way that we. Compartmentalize everything, and I think it's just like I feel what I really, really loved about your work. It is all the in between. It's the stuff that literally is hiding in plain sight that we have access to. If we just soften our gaze, if we just put the filter on and like look at all of the ranges of colors and hues between the black and the. white. And there's other metaphors for here too. I can see Joel: We, we've been given so much that we are kinds it up. It's again, awareness is a, a freaking superpower. It is. You know, it, it is. When you become aware, your eyes are open to things again, just like you mentioned things right before your very eyes, people right before your very eyes that's been in your life. That's been at that local store, that you just start recognizing things and people and points of view, and just perspectives that unlocks so many things. That's been so many doors that's been locked in your life for years, and it's like, wow, here's the key. It just took me looking at it through somebody else's eyes through, you know, if you're in business, okay, you've been reluctant to look through the customer's eyes. You know, maybe that customer that only comes in once a. versus you only looking at it through the customer that comes in 10 times a month. Look through that customer that comes in once a month and you'll realize why they only come in once a month maybe, cuz you're lacking X, Y, Z. Mm-hmm. , you know, so it's like, it's just. The awareness it, it really opens so much up. Monica: It does. I always say like the first tool I give anybody who comes to me for coaching is notice. Notice, notice, notice. Notice what's in the space. Notice what's not in the space. Notice how your body feels when somebody says something. It's just like just bringing your awareness and your attention to all the things you've actually been conditioned or taught to disregard as if they're not important. Those are actually the indicators. That's how we know we're passionate about something is when we have a visceral or an emotional response, that becomes the indicator for us of like, go this way or don't go that way. So, so yeah. So much of this. I love what you said about, it's really about who are you becoming, and I always say like, we kind of have to like un become before we can become Joel: Exactly. Exactly. Monica: And it's like unbecoming from all of the conditioning, unbecoming from all of the bad advice, unbecoming, from all of the ways that we're conditioned in society to win or lose. Right. And. You know, and becoming is all about starting to do the filtering. Mm-hmm. , starting to pay attention to what actually lights you up versus what doesn't. Joel: Right. Monica: And then focusing on those adjustments as you move through life to focus even more on what you care about and letting the rest fall away. Joel: I mean, it's, it's so, so, so important. I mean, you just said how, how we've been conditioned and it's funny, my son, he, he, he was kind of complaining to me like, man, we have, you know, this standardized test coming up. And then he said, we have three more throughout the school year. And I'm like, I don't like that either. And I began thinking about how. We've been conditioned to just be graded Yeah. Throughout our entire lives for an end result Monica: And associate like our worth. With the grade. Joel: With the grade, right? And the process means nothing. But what did you get in the end? That's all that matters. We start doing that to ourselves, to where we overlook everything in between that, you know, initial learning and then the grade in the. and we, we, we just condition ourselves to miss so much of all the processes that we go through in life to where again, we, we overlook people opportunities. And when we do that, those opportunities disappear. Those people disappear. They leave because we're not appreciating them properly. Mm. Because we're just looking for an end result. We're looking for that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. and like you said, we have to un, un become, we have to get rid of that grading ourselves mentality to say, okay, no, that's not what's most important. It's not what I, it's not if I get an A or a F, you know, it's about how do I grow in a process of whatever I'm going through. I may not even like this job that I'm going through, but what things can I get from it that can actually still help level me up a little bit? Get me 1% better to where I can go toward that. That I do like. Yes. It's like we overlook even that job that we hate, we overlook the fruits of those jobs and because we're just looking for that end result of, of even satisfaction, like realizing that everything doesn't have to be enjoyable. But if you realize that it could be enjoyable, then you can get something from it and say, okay, I can endure this, but while I'm enduring it, I'm gonna strip this thing of everything that can be of benefit to. And then once I decide to get to somewhere else, I'm gonna be in position to actually level up. Monica: Yeah. I love that you said that about endurance because it's true. There are some hard truths. There are times when, you know, and I, I'm raising my hand here, you know, like I've hit the ground floor and I have to begin again and. As you're kind of building the building blocks to begin again, there is a certain endurance. It's like you have to remember, I am not always gonna be in this place, but while I'm here, you better believe I am gonna suck the marrow out of every opportunity that I have to learn something here. Even if the lessons is patience or even if the lessons is humility, like I'm like, I just. And maybe that's that grounded optimism. It's like, yeah, that ain't unicorn and rainbows, . It is like this way to fortify, you know? And people will often say like, you know, how do you get, so how did you get so emotionally resilient or emotionally strong? I would say that's why, because there was some, Part of me that got to that same place you did, or the same place Muhammad Ali did. Yeah. Right. Where it's just like, I'm gonna take these punches right now, but I am looking for the window. Joel: Right. Monica: I am gonna look for those nine seconds or 19 seconds, or whatever it was that he, you know, took. Took that to the next level for himself, you know, and make those seconds count. And I think that that is what so many people are longing to connect to. Is that permission, I would say, to like have their feelings about their situation. And it's that and. Use that grit to make that pearl. Right. Use it, use it, use it. And yeah. And you have a similar saying and I'm, I can't quite get to it in this moment, but, but it's like such a great book and I'm so, I'm so honored that you came on to talk. To me and share with my listeners today. You know, and I'd love actually Joel, for you to tell them anything that you've got going on and of course, direct them where they can learn more about you. Joel: Well, again, uh, as you mentioned early on right now, just out here promoting the book and making appearances here and there, just again, just trying my best to make an impact. Simply put, um, and just help people to see life from a different angle in. Not in place of their own, but in addition to their own. Just that way we can open our minds to having empathy, you know, toward others and even sympathy toward others as well. But, uh, you guys can find me on social media. I'm on Instagram often at this point. Uh, at J Green plt, that's j a y Green PLT through my website, joel b green.com. I love engagement, so if anyone of you reach out, I will happen to get back to you and assist in any way I can, but I'm on Facebook as well. Joel Green official. Definitely would love to hear from you guys. Amazing. And one more thing, so you can find my book on Amazon and Bronze Noble as well, so, Monica: okay, awesome. Yeah, I was gonna say for our listeners, I'll be sure to put all of Joel's links, you know, his Instagram, his Facebook, and where you can pick up filtering on Amazon and in local bookstores. We'll be sure to put those links in the show notes. And Joel, just thank you so much and congratulations. Joel: Thank you Monica again. Truly appreciate it. Monica: Yeah. And, uh, we'll be in touch. And for our listeners till next time, more to be revealed. We hope you enjoyed this episode. For more information, please visit us@jointherevelation.com and be sure to download our free gift, subscribe to our mailing list or leave us a review on iTunes. We thank you for your generous listening and as always, more to be revealed.