121_Coco Groothuis === Coco: Yeah, but I love it. I love it. There's so much truth in it. And I also loved the comparison with muds. Like we need the ground energy, you will need to grounding energy and the muds and will all those very heavy, dense energy to build. On, You can't build like an empire on just like fluffy energy. We're really neat that grounding energy, also the connection with mother earth. So yeah, it's a very constructive energy, I think. Monica: Well, and even when we think about all of the ways that we meditate and we think, you know, about just rooting ourselves deeply in the earth, so that we're kind of firmly grounded on our rock of being that it's by, it's not about being inflexible, but it's about being so firmly rooted in with full permission inside of who we are that we don't easily kind of get knocked around by the world. Coco: Definitely. And again, it's a very practical vision sometimes, but again, if you look at like building your business, it's super, super important to be very grounded the actually, and also be in that very deep meditative state, again, like really the deep connection, because the deeper you can go to higher, you can go also, right. There's a very good, strong connection between that. So that is why also love to do a shadow work as well, because I know there, there are so many gifts, always in the shadow and yeah, I love it. === Monica: Welcome to the Revelation Project podcast. I'm Monica Rogers, and this podcast is intended to disrupt the trance of unworthiness and to guide women, to remember and reveal the truth of who we are. We say that life is a revelation project and what gets revealed gets healed. Hello everyone. And welcome to another episode of the revelation project podcast. Today. I'm with Coco Groothuis who grew up in Harlem in the Netherlands. She runs her consulting business from her current hometown in Ijmuiden close to the sea. Coco has a clear vision for the future. She sees a major role for female entrepreneurs who have a natural gift to connect and create unity, build mutual business structures that embrace inclusiveness, diversity and sustainability. For this she helps soul driven female entrepreneurs to do business cyclically, according to their natural rhythm entrepreneurs, learn to honor their body rhythm and essence and take it as the starting point for their business. They make sure that they did not become exhausted. And at the same time they watched their businesses grow naturally every year as a seasons student, Coco learned that from an early age success reward and results equate to discipline focus and hard work. She was told that if she could only manage her time properly and persevere, she would naturally experience balance and tranquility. Oh boy. So she did manage to work hard, achieve success and keep focused, but balance and tranquility seemed to. Eternal dot out on the horizon. Oh, can I relate? She just never had the time to spare her pleasure for life disappeared and she just couldn't manage to work in a more relaxed way. Instead the mountain in front of her just got bigger until the moment she found out that she could work much easier if she followed. On cycle and her own pace. There's a revelation. She rested when her body was tired and put herself into gear. When she felt inspired, regardless of the schedule she had written in her diary, she realized work could be done differently. That life is meant to be different. And that there's a natural flow of energy, underlying everything, which we just have to follow. Instead of trying to invent the flow ourselves through years of research and experimenting, feeling out what works and what doesn't and following the natural cycles of ebb and flow. Coco has designed something for every woman to be able to follow and to find her own way. So without further ado, please join me in welcoming Coco Hey Coco. Coco: Hi, Monica. Monica: I love this because, as an entrepreneur, right, as a business owner, I was burning out. I was really, really having a hard time because I was doing business the way we're taught to do it in a very masculine word. Coco: Yeah. Can imagine here the same cause. So hence the solution. Monica: When, when did you kind of have the revelation of like, oh my gosh, I actually have this cyclical wisdom that I can follow. Coco: Yeah. It was just after my graduation of university and I was really working hard all the time and did a lot of studies, et cetera. And when I got, well, actually when I graduated, I already felt burned out. But then out of sheden I started my own festival and it's most, very successful, but I kept working like 60 hours a week and just for two years. And I really felt like, okay, this is not doable anymore. And I was just, even if I was tired and just have no work to do, I was just stuck after, after the computer. And I was just like, okay, I need to do something. I need to do something. In one moment. It's time. I was like, okay, what am I doing? I have nothing to do. I can rest, but I'm still sitting behind the computer. I was so stressed. And then I felt like, okay, I really need to quit this behavior because if I don't stop this something's going really wrong. Monica: Yeah. Coco: So it was really looking at my behavior like, okay, this is crazy. This cannot be healthy Monica: Yet. Well, and what I hear you saying too, is that it's so unsustainable. There's a way that we, I even caught myself doing it yesterday, where if I wasn't working, I was scrolling and, or, or behind a screen and I wasn't necessarily doing anything, but I also wasn't nourishing myself. I wasn't truly resting. It was like, there was some way that I was still reaching for something out there and. It's a really hard habit to break, to just disconnect from all of the things that take you away from your yourself and your own needs. Coco: Yeah. It's a little bit like an addiction. And first you think like, okay, I'm used to it, we've learned it at school that we have to work hard, et cetera. And then at some point you think like it never stops. It really never stops. So I need to want that step in this behavior. And if you're really looking closely at your behaviors, like, okay, yeah, this is not healthy. Monica: No, it's, it's really not. So I know one of the things that you really love to talk about is just the kind of depth that comes with working through. the menstrual cycle and also what you call kind of the dark period, the kind of metaphorical winter. And I wondered if we could maybe start there because we're still in winter right now, which, and I love that idea of like, we also, as women are so tuned in not only to the rhythms of the exterior world, such as the moon cycles or the seasons as they come and go, but we also have this beautiful system, this rhythmic cyclical way of being in tune with our own bodies that really offers us, I think, tremendous access to creativity, to inner knowing, to cleansing toxins from our body. Like, and I think that here and especially in the west, we're so disassociated from those gifts. Coco: Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. And like, we really are used to working hard and being very productive and that's the side we really know fairly well, but then indeed comes the winter periods and doing nothing. And what we've talked about just a few minutes before, it's like, you want to keep going, you want to keep going, but if you look at just like nature and how your body works, it really asks us to rest. It's part of the creation cycle that it's like 25%. The seasons is about rest and the inner room. And it's not only about nature, but also our nature is built like this. So yeah, for me, it's such a relief to know that and then integrate it in my work day. So for example, right now I am doing the podcast, but just before the podcast, I lay down for two hours just to rest and let my body really relaxed because I know like if I do that, then I'm so more powerful. The moment I need to shine, you know? So that kind of knowledge can help you so much. Monica: I love that. And most of us would say two hours to rest in the middle of the day. Coco: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But if you look at the workday, like you have perhaps a productive hours, but it's not like you have to work eight hours. It's just two hours of planning. Like if you look at the cyclical, uh, how it's cyclical works, it's like 25% is like wintertime 25% is springtime. 25 is summertime 25 is awesome. Right? So you can actually work according to this principle. And if you do that, then it makes so much shins. And of course, it's, it's asking us a little bit to organize it differently. But if you look at it and you really realize like, oh, this is how it works, you can really work with it. On that kind of well pace actually. Monica: Yeah. So let me, let me kind of get curious here, because when you say 25% for each of those seasons, I'm making up that, what you mean is that not only in our day to look at our day and approach it, for example, winter is when maybe we're sleeping at night. Is that what you mean? Coco: Yeah. Well, you can, you can look at it differently. Like you can put it on 24 hour cycle. So down winter, winter time is sleeping time. Then early mornings, spring time, the noontime is summertime and afternoon is art and time evening is autumn time. Yeah. Okay. Monica: And then also you can not only look at it from a 24 hour cycle, but also a 28 day cycle or a, or a 30 day cycle in a month. So help me understand how can women were and do their life in a way that really supports them using this. Coco: Yeah, well, first it's very easy. It's just acknowledge that you're a seasonal cyclical being and that's, we're not supposed to be 24 hours, highly productive for really neat arresting time. And we women, we are actually super lucky because we have menstruation. So it asks us already to go insides. And I think because we have to mechanism and we only have to listen and we have to act on it. So you can see it's through a year, like, okay. Winter time, especially if you live like in a seasonal. And if you'd like, I live in Holland, so we have really good seasonal changes. Right. So, well, you can really use the seasons, like, okay. Summertime high vibration, uh, communicating and when to time is more like, okay, going inside and then spring is more about planning, brainstorming, and yeah. Piloting projects, for example, an awesome time. For example, it's more like, okay, if a evaluation of your projects don't think the wise, I don't know if it's an expression in English, but yeah. Really wrapping up the year. Right. So you can really plan your business around it, but also in your moon. Like for example, right now, the day we record this it's full moon. So for me, it's a very happy time to go out and do this kind of work. Right. So you can really play with it, but also look at the way. With, especially as an entrepreneur, but also as a mom, you have different kinds of tasks and you can look at your schedule, like, okay, what does this kind of task, how does it fit into my menstruation cycle? And that's already one way to really connect with it. Monica: I love that. One thing that I've definitely shared before on the podcast is that during my cycle and I, I believe that I'm kind of in peri-menopause and. One it's. So even though it's hard to predict in some ways, because my cycle is changing, it's more paying attention to what my bodily symptoms are. Instead of being able to really depend on that every 14 days, I'm ovulating. Sometimes I'm having my period every 14 days versus right. It's changing in that way, but it's so part of it is more paying attention to the, to the body's wisdom and understanding that, oh, tenderness in my breasts a week after my period, it's more likely that I'm obviating or I'm not right. Like there's just certain things that come up now with my body that caused me to have to pay attention differently. And also that I get, uh, I tend to get migraines. And so I've really, it's the migraines themselves have forced me to pay more attention to my schedule because, and really recognize how drained I am. At that time each month. And then that's not the time for instance, to record a podcast. You know what I mean? Like it's really helped me to see, like I can, I know I can, but it's also not in my best interest and it's not in my guest best interest usually. Coco: Yeah. Monica: Because I'm not at the top of my creative. Like I don't have the kind of energy and the resources that I typically have when I'm kind of through that part of my cycle. Coco: Definitely. Beautiful. Yeah. And I think if we really listened to those qualities, because I think. You can describe them as paints or like, well, I don't like it, but actually it's, it tells us there are so much truth in those kinds of, uh, mood swings for, uh, for example, or pains or whatever. So I think if you really dare to listen and dare to stand still and really connect with our buddies again, I think that's, wow. There's so much wisdom. And in there, there is definitely Monica: Well, and so I feel like one of the things that we're also really pointing to right now is that there's a difference between energy management and time management and that, and that what we're really talking about here is women learning to kind of get off the time management wheel and really start to pay more attention to the energy management and how in doing that, we really are empowering ourselves to. Not only, I think be the most productive when it's a natural extension of where we're at in our cycle. But also I love this piece about giving ourselves permission to rest, to disconnect, to really nourish ourselves. So I wonder too, if you could talk more about the winter time and the autumn time and why that's so important in the life of women and why do we tend to forget those things? Coco: Yeah, well, what I said is that we love summertime. We love to be predictive. We love going outside and we really get a knowledge for that. And we really get awards for being high, predictive and being visible. And also if you look at social media, I mean always being visible, that kind of stuff. I mean, we get really it's okay. You know, it's, it's not a bad thing, but there's also another side of it that we really need to honor if you really want to honor ourselves and our creativity and the health of our business. And that is really the wintertime. And the other time we forget that and we don't like those kind of qualities, but for example, wintertime is for me, it's an invitation to go really deep and not only arrests, but making connection to my deeper longings. And I think it's so important because it's so easy to swept, be swept away with, well, very easy. How do you say like easy sugary, like desires, if you really want to grow? I think. Important to do that from a very deep essence base place. And you can only come there through very deep connections, silence being very in a meditative states. And I think it's can be very, very rewarding to really allow yourself in deep wintertime, in deep breath, taking a few days of. Around your menstruation. That kind of things was also like, well, of course have good sleep or in the morning, early morning, journaling, that kind of qualities. I think we can really invite that more and not be so over hectic and it can really help you. And the same goes with autumn. And especially you, you told me that you're peri menopause and, uh, well I have a good friend, but Pat Duckworth. She's a menopause specialist and I've talked also with her about. How you can use, for example, menopause that's awesome energy, right. In a female life. And it can be so rewarding to really see that as like a crown on your work. For example, there are so many examples of how you can use those kinds of qualities and just not only focus on being visible all the time and see that as the only way to be successful. Yeah, Monica: I did. I got a chance to interview pat and she was, we had just such a beautiful conversation and exactly that, you know, we really talked about the wisdom of menopause and the, the honor of menopause. Right. And it's such a, it's such a different. As a Western woman, to hear these words about menopause when we've been taught, you know, to look at menopause as like the beginning of the end, or like, you know, like all of these just it's so ridiculous to all the ways that we kind of talk just in general about all of the feminine energy cycles and ways of being, because we're so we've suppressed them for so long. And so to really pull them back up to the surface and start honoring them and paying attention to again, is for women to really plug into our true power, which is different from the kind of power that we. Try to muster, you know, that we try to, you know, create from this place where we're already exhausted. It just it's so counter intuitive, and yet we've been taught to do it for centuries. And I was also thinking like, how amazing seriously would it be if we supported women in this way, in the workplace too, to really be able to recognize and honor where a woman is in her cycle and allow her that space, knowing that she's just gonna come back to her work with much more energy and creativity and productivity. Coco: Yeah, definitely. A few years ago I had a teacher. She was so great. And she told me like, well, what you actually need to do if you have a woman menstruation in your team, just give her some very heavy logistic questions and send her out to the boots or into her cave because she will rock on it, you know? Monica: Yeah. Yeah. She'll like figure it out. Right. She'll come back Coco: With a very strict, Monica: But it's more like she can kind of just rest in her wise woman cave and kind of come out with the answer, right? Coco: Yeah. She can bleed on us. They said, Monica: Oh my God, I love Coco: She said, yeah. Yeah. So, because it mensutation, you're like very a truth bomb yeah. Not if you're like in high emotions of the time you, you like everything. Right. But you're not very fruitful. Monica: Oh my God Coco: A little bit over on two share sticks. So if you want to be strategically very smart, then use your mesturation to just bleed on it. Right, Monica: Right. Instead of think on it. Well, you know, think on it. I'm going to bleed on it. I'm going to remember that forever. That it's hysterical. Yeah. I'll be back. I'll be back. I'm just going to bleed on that for awhile. I love that. So. All right. So where should we take this conversation next? What what's coming up for you? Coco: Well, I was thinking, because what, I also, it's more like a personal experience right now, because for example, right now I'm pregnant and I've got like six weeks to go and something I really love about pregnancy. I don't know exactly what I feel is like, I can compare it a little bit to menstration going really, really going inside. Right. And what I really love right now is like also feeling this deep inner truth and how completely wonderful it is for me to embrace that. And if we talk about like using words and using daily conversations, Well, for example, my, my partner is just yet, oh, she's hormonal, right? Like it's a very negative thing. And I'm like, no, I'm super truthful right now felt more in line with myself. Yeah. I can, I can not be different. I mean, I really need to speak my truth right now and I do it. I, I have nothing left anymore, you know? So that kind of material, I think. Yeah. I don't know. Well, you've got two children, right. Also, so yeah, I dunno how you experienced it, but for me, it's also such. Yeah, great gift of modern nature. Like, oh, we really need to look at these kinds of seasons and this kind of faces differently. Monica: Yeah, no, I, wow. Yeah. Pregnancy for me was, there's so much to say about it, but it it's truly this attunement, I think, to. Just that miracle that our bodies are. And I'm not going to sit here and say that I loved all of it because I think I was also still very much in what I call wounded maiden. And so I wasn't able to really, truly appreciate at least the first time around when I had my daughter, all of the major changes and shifts that were happening to my body. It was almost like I took it personally versus as a gift because in our society we're so conditioned even if, and this is so sad, but it is changing and I do feel it changing. But when I was pregnant with Manon and 19 years ago, it was like, I didn't have. A whole lot of models of women who have wise women around me who were celebrating and helped me sell it, helping me celebrate the changes in my body and helping me see the gifts that I was being in the initiation that I was being taken through because the attunement, you know, not only to the life that is growing inside of us and the true appreciation, as well as all of the, all of the extra. Things that come up that get revealed and want to be surfaced throughout our pregnancies. Like these truths and understanding that there was a certain point in my pregnancies where I also was very clear about what was going to work in our home and what wasn't and what needed to change. And like what we needed to address before this child came into the world. There was all this kind of wisdom that was coming through me as this child was growing inside of me. And so yes, absolutely honoring it. And we. I have a little bit of a joke similar to, I mean, I try to be playful with it, right. It's like, oh, she's so hormonal. Like, if anybody said that to me while I was PMs or, you know, like getting ready for my period, they'd have to run for the hills because I'd be like, wow, because there is this way that I just speak more truthfully and sometimes it can be rather blunt and hurtful maybe, but it's also, you know, I'm learning how to, how to do that in a more gentle way and be more gentle with myself. But it's how many cycles have I now at 50, 51 years old gone through where I'm like, I'm finally starting to get good at it because for the longest time I wasn't in that place of consciously paying attention to where I was at in my cycle. Coco: Yeah. Yeah. I can imagine. Yeah. And it's so important and especially about speaking truth and honoring that, that truth and not. always that the happy girl, you know, that's really dead the summer girl. Yeah. I would say yeah, really have to adore also, and really appreciate winter woman. Yes. I love that. And, and that is what I'm learning even. More and even deeper right now and also in my business right now, I'm really using this time to go just another layer, uh, well, to, to encounter just another deep layer in myself to be more, even more creative when I want to come out out of my cocoon again, you know, so, oh, it's a real. Yeah. I really think it's very joyful periods right now. Winter time to cocoon time that, well, the very truth bomb, winter woman. Yeah. I see her as a, some kind of, yeah. Wonder woman, actually. Very powerful, Monica: Very powerful. And when you, when you talk about your creativity, what do you mean by that? Cause I'm, I, I love getting curious with women about how they not only access their creativity, but like what does that mean for you in your life? Coco: Well, for me, creativity has different kinds of layers. I think like, well, first of all, I had some rough months, the last month, like really winter deep winter period because I was really facing my inner demons, but I knew that I was in deep winter rest and I knew that I could handle them as, at that point in time. So it could really open up for that. I know that for me. I see creativity as a, as a cycle process. Yeah. So for me also, that has something to do with my creativity, really cleaning my shit out. I really flush myself and I really felt so good by doing that, like finding my inner demons and embrace them also. So that right now, like you said, we're still in winter time. We'll actually, we're not because we're already in the first spring moon because the 21st of March it's mid-spring, and it's not the start of spring and what I see in Holland and what I already feel, feel with this full one again. My heart is, uh, slowly, well getting a little bit restless again, and now I feel like, okay, there are space, I've created space, and now I can see already little seeds and of inspiration coming my way and a very, uh, sweet visionary Yeah. So for me, that means like, I see things that I can create this year and because I work so cyclically, I right now, for me, this is really the moment to already make connection to my products and my harvest in September. Right. So I have a direct connection, uh, with, uh, the I plant right now and my harvest is September. So yeah, that is how I really feed my imagination right now. And my creativity and I play with the seasons and also with the moon because well, a week before I felt like, okay, I don't have create. I'm not creative. And then I just rest and do something else, but well, if I don't feel it, I won't act on it and I will just be very gentle with myself, I guess. That's my strategy. Yeah. Well, the, the self-compassion I think is yeah, is how we. Just get through some of these hard places, um, with ourselves and as, so I want to kind of also say yes, thank you. Because as I'm sitting here looking out the window, I'm staring at the snow on the ground, but you're absolutely right. Like we just went through in bulk. Right. And so here we are in the spring and it's funny because I've even noticed my reluctance to be in the spring yet because I haven't fully embraced the winter yet. I mean, I have, but there's part of me that actually loves the winter. I don't love the cold around the winter, but I love the going within. I love the cocooning. I love the reflection. And, um, that's like, My human design hermit side that loves, you know, the, the winter, the deep winter. I want to go back to what you said about the inner demons, because I would love to ask you, you know, I talk about the trance of unworthiness and I do believe that most women kind of come in and out of the trance as well. A lot, that part of, kind of our facing our inner demons are looking at where we're. Having doubts or where we're abandoning ourselves or where we're not speaking our truth. So I wondered if you could say a little bit more about those demons, that and how the trance shows up in your life. Yeah. Well, I think that theme of readiness, that's very much present in my life always. And especially as an entrepreneur, you, for example, bill things like you have to price yourself, for example, Definitely not one of my strongest points, for example, but also in my pregnancy, what I really encountered last month is how my partner was actually really showing me the pace. I really went on his planning system. And for example, I was just having a research with my body and my belly and the minute were outside. He was like, let's make a picture and let's tell everybody. And I was like, whoa, I need rest, man. It was just a pretty intense research and so in, but also like we have a baby room and that was actually, it was my office. So I really made space for the baby. But then I reached like, realized like, okay, where's my space. Whereas my room, where am I? And I go, so. Immense confused about the situation. I was like, okay, this is not, I think this is not healthy. I need to really step up and really take my place into the family. Even with a baby. I'm still a person. Monica: Oh, and this is big. Yes. Coco: Yeah. So that was such a lesson for me and now I'm super aware of it and I can really. I feel like in just a few minutes, I feel like, okay, oh, I'm sliding back again. Then I'm right. Now. I can really very fast make the change and like, okay. But I'm still a person I'm also myself. And I can only care if I'm still on my place. I'm the mother. hes the father and we have a baby, but I'm still there. Monica: Yes. Well, and this is, these are the places I think we transition into this other part of our lives and we can tend to do that thing that we do as women. So naturally, which is too. Sacrifice ourselves for, for the welcoming in of something else. And yet we have to realize like, okay, it's a both and not an either. Or it's like, we can welcome in this new being this new life, but, but not place ourselves as a way to accommodate or welcome that it actually is, uh, an opportunity for us to assert our value and our worth as well as the worth and value of the new being that's coming in. And knowing that we are, we all have to create our own space to fully be in the world. Coco: Yeah, definitely. And it's, it's, it's, it's beautiful because it's a new being, but it's can also be a new project. Right. Like if I I'm starting a new project, I, right now I always make connection. Like, okay. But if it's in the right amount of time, the right amount of energy, and I really first make like, okay, what's in for me. And it sounds a little bit like egoistic, but it's, it feels like, okay. Yeah, what's my Where am I what's my relation to it. Right. And to have just that little research moments and really just the moment that I questioned myself and then I can read it, embrace it because otherwise, yeah. One of my tendencies is to be swept away because I'm overenthusiastic, but then where am i? Monica: Right. It's like, not just not losing yourself in all of this. Coco: I'm not losing yourself. Yeah. And then again, if you're not very good at it, or if you have problems with it, uh, like me, for example, That's such a benefit of using my menstruation to really ask myself questions about certain projects or certain relationships also like, okay, but how do I really feel? So when I did that, that I became so immense powerful, because it was always the time of the month that I could really feel deeply into. Okay. I need to cut up that. I need to transform that. And that was also one of my biggest revelations, like, okay, I can really use this power to support myself. Monica: Yes. I'm just kind of really sitting with that for a second. And also thinking too about what you said about placing value on your, on your work and your offerings and, and that that's and, and how, you know, to go back to like where the trans can sometimes really kind of. Make its mischief with us is in this area of doubting our, our worth or doubting our value or doubting that we deserve to take the time and the space to really fully, I guess, like commit or immerse ourselves in the idea of something before we kind of bring it out to the world, like to really kind of integrate it into how we be in the world. And that if we do that work upfront, then the value comes or the worth comes, I think much easier. Does that make sense? Coco: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Yeah. And I think that's also what I like about you and your podcast and your intention, like really first see the trends and own the trends actually. And then, and then okay. Refuel it. Actually not there and that's, we have to face it actually as women. Yeah. I think it's, it's so important is it's a real job right now as women. Monica: It's a re yeah, it really is. I really notice, like, I really, it's not about it not being there. It's like the trans we could call it a number of different things. We could call it our shadow work. We could call it. You know, what did you call it earlier? You said your demons, right? We could call it, you know, our self doubt we could go, but it's the place where we forget that it all gets to be here and that it doesn't diminish us or define us just because we're having a moment with it, you know? And that it's by being with it, it's by looking at it, it's by getting really intimate and tender with these moments that make us uncomfortable, or that confront us in some ways that we actually continued to recover more quickly and deepen our, not only our wisdom for ourselves better, but our love for ourselves and others. Coco: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And what if it's, it's actually. Are like, it's our goals, perhaps also even it's our, perhaps our deepest fears can also be our biggest gifts because we have to face them. And it's our personal heroine's journey. Right. So perhaps if you look at it like that also, and really embraced Evan, that's kind of way. Yeah. I really like it. Monica: And yeah, the heroine's journey. I have to do a whole episode on the heroine's journey because. Whenever, I don't know about you Coco, but whenever I saw that, like in, in our case, I don't know which one you looked at. I know that there are a few women, but I looked at Maureen Murdock's work quite deeply. And, and I was like, oh my gosh. Like, like it's like a map for women to really, really, archetypically kind of understand what we go through to kind of embrace our wholeness. That, that the hero's journey is all about kind of this quest for adventure, but a woman's kind of heroine's journey is all about this quest for wholeness. And that includes the masculine journey. And it's like, wow, it is, it was, so it talk about a revelation. Like I was like, whoa, this is amazing. How about you Coco: For me the same. But yeah, I think what's for me is I think the most important thing. And I think, again, for me, it has everything to do with. Owning menstruation, owning wintertime, owning the deep, dark, feminine energy, and really like heal from within that space. I think for me, that's the most important messages that I'm really still embracing as still healing from actually to see differently. And for me, that's, for me, that's the most important part right now. Yeah. And when you say healing and seeing it differently, do you mean from kind of the patriarchal lens of what you thought it all was about and what it really is all about? Yeah, I think in our it's our goals. Yeah. Yeah. It's our inner truth. It's our guidance, so to speak. And so again, if you, I don't know what I want to speak about it so much, but I think. If we think about female power, we often think about the sexy girl and well, you know, again, this spring girl, Monica: The maiden, the maiden Coco: The Maiden. Yeah. And for me, I think right now the biggest revelation is like, wow, I really love that, that deeper, darker woman. And I can see that she's not upset or hurt per se, but that she's also part of the wholeness. She's also part of me. And she has like an ever. She's also very important part of our society and she needs to be heard. She needs to be, oh yeah. See, she needs to have a voice, I think right now. And especially also, if you look at the collective energy right now, I think it's, we women, we really have to step up and not by being more visible, but being truthful. And I think that's a big difference. We don't need to have like a big stage and really shiny lights, but we have to speak from the deeper, in our, through, I think that's for me right now, the most important thing. Monica: Well, I'm what, you're so beautifully pointing to is the Rite of passage, you know, between kind of. The maiden turns into the archetype of the mother. And it just so happens that you're also pregnant and becoming a mother for our listeners. This is such a powerful conversation, this conversation about archetypes and how, again, as, as women and my listeners have heard me say this before, but in this very patriarchal culture where. The patriarchy wants to keep us in maidenhood because in maidenhood we're not in touch with that fierce power, that dark energy, we call it dark. But I want to be very clear that what it is is it's deep, it's organic. It's like the fertile, like think of the dirt of the, of mother earth. It's where everything gets composted and recycled and remembered and regenerated. And it's like the power of the mother is like, she knows, like she knows that at her very essence, she is a force to be reckoned with. And that is a really powerful energy. Also, when you think about what we're up to in the world, in terms of being the voice for our children or those who cannot be. Fully step into their own voice yet. And it's so great because now Coco, I'm noticing where the justice card is coming in to you and you see the Coco and I chose a card before we came on. As you know, I love to do, and we chose from a deck called sacred mothers and goddesses, and we chose justice and healing, which is . And she's a Celtic goddess, a Celtic and Roman sun goddess. And what's great about her is that you can call on her for courage to speak your truth and to help in the healing of others. And that's that thing about the mother energy is that, oh, and it says you can also call on her when you've been wronged and for fulfillment of wishes, especially for justice against wrongdoing. Like, I don't know about you ladies and gents, if you're listening. When I see there's nothing that gets me more activated than seeing an injustice or a wrongdoing against a child. Then I am fully in mother. It's like, whoa, look out. And I was like that, by the way before I was even a mother, it's just like this, this way that it comes up in me, like, it's just like, boom, like it's it's right there. I'm so I'm so present to my power and to my commitment to speaking truth. Coco: Yeah. It's like Lioness power is really being the lion. Monica: Yes. It's really being the lion and this whole thing too. This fear around like the dark feminine it's so. There's really nothing to fear. It's more I think about embracing and understanding that within the darkness is a gift is a hidden gift that we get to reclaim. Yeah, because this is the part of the journey back to wholeness is to actually remember all of it that nothing gets excluded, not even the dark, that it's actually just part and parcel of our, our humanity and our divinity, that all of it exists kind of within the context of whatever you want to call it. God source. So, you know, just a really light breezy conversation today, right? Coco: Yeah, but I love it. I love it. There's so much truth in it. And I also loved the comparison with muds. Like we need the ground energy, you will need to grounding energy and the muds and will all those very heavy, dense energy to build. On, You can't build like an empire on just like fluffy energy. We're really neat that grounding energy, also the connection with mother earth. So yeah, it's a very constructive energy, I think. Monica: Well, and even when we think about all of the ways that we meditate and we think, you know, about just rooting ourselves deeply in the earth, so that we're kind of firmly grounded on our rock of being that it's by, it's not about being inflexible, but it's about being so firmly rooted in with full permission inside of who we are that we don't easily kind of get knocked around by the world. Coco: Definitely. And again, it's a very practical vision sometimes, but again, if you look at like building your business, it's super, super important to be very grounded the actually, and also be in that very deep meditative state, again, like really the deep connection, because the deeper you can go to higher, you can go also, right. There's a very good, strong connection between that. So that is why also love to do a shadow work as well, because I know there, there are so many gifts, always in the shadow and yeah, I love it. Monica: I love it too. And I also want to point out that the shadow, the ego, right. The ego is often something that gets me in the trance by the way, my, my, you know, I know we need it. And again, it's like, it all gets to belong, but more and more, I'm like very present to like, oh, that's my ego, right? Like, oh, that's my vanity or my ego, or that's not wanting to cross over into like this crone archetype. Right. Like to fully own it yet because you know, th th that I've again been kind of in the trance of having to be in maidenhood to stay valid in this society. Coco: Oh, oh, that's a shame. Monica: Yeah. It's such a shame, but noticing it and noticing that it's, it's, we've been inculturated to believe that and it's, it's not even, it's not true. So when it comes up for me is again, just like tenderly looking at it and saying, like putting my own hand on my heart and just being compassionate with myself because that's kind of the training ground that we've been through as women. And so to unbecome from all of that is such a powerful, messy, dark, sometimes process. And yet it's also a very fertile process where then when we kind of uncreate all of that, now we're in this place where anything is possible. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. I really love it's the way you speak about it. Yeah. Well, and sometimes I get, I get, um, Overwhelmed right, because there's, I was, I was sharing with Coco that last night I was, I was so paralyzed. It was like, I was dreaming in the trance. It was like the trance kept waking me up in, in my sleep. I don't know if anybody can relate to this where I was waking up with anxiety and then I'd have to like remember and what I was thinking about, what I went to bed thinking about was who am I to write a book? Who am I to write my story? Who am I that I think anybody's going to read it. And I was getting myself so worked up about just writing and writing from my heart. And I obviously took that to bed with me last night. But to your point, it's like the sleep was the winter. And I was facing my shadows last night and it was like, every time I would wake up, it was like this metaphorical way of like coming back from being deep, deep, deep in the shadow work. And then remembering once I hit the surface, like Monica, it all gets to belong. It's all. Okay. Your fears get to be here and you can do it anyway. And it was like, and then I would go back and I would like come up with another layer and I would come back to the surface and I would kind of have to remember again, like it's, it's all good. Monica. It's all good. Coco: Yeah. But also this journey that you're making right now by, by writing the book also, it's very cyclical and seasonal because when you go just from, from the deep winter state or have an idea, and then you go in, in spring energy more, that's like, okay, I'm going to put out the first words, right? Yeah. That's also a process it's not like, and that's also, perhaps if we talk about the timing right now, we think if we talk about spring, then we think about happy cows or a happy sheep in the meadow that really happy jumpy. Yeah, actually, it's a very serious process because springtime means actually like going from the deep, dark, winter time into, into the surface and, and the first seats are going outside and they are just very slowly looking around them, like, okay, where am I? You know, I'm just being born into the world. And it's a very delicate process where we can just face a lot of anxiety also because our deeper desires encounter the lights again, you know? So it's also a very beautiful timing right now. Monica: Yeah. Yeah. And I loved that word you used earlier, which was longings because, because when I hear what you're saying, and I love that you now kind of mapped map. This what you're talking about, and I know why you're so passionate about it, Coco. I know why you're so passionate about it because it makes sense with everything and you just mapped it to the process of creating the book. Right. And it's like, ah, to look through that lens, it makes so much sense because when in the winter it's like getting in touch with that longing, right. That longing to like, like create a book, like to birth a book into the world. Like it's so true. Right? It's like, it's getting closer. And so now I'm facing all of these anxieties that are coming up to be looked at, which are like, what will people think? What will your mother say? Like what you, right. Like all these things that I have to kind of look at and be with in order to just integrate all of this and allow it so that I can continue to give myself permission. Coco: And that's part of your job. This, this is work, you know, so, and this is what I love about like working cyclically and working the way I do it, because exactly this process I see as working hours, actually, I sleep is also working hours, right? Because if you working through the process right now of giving birth of your book, and it's a very creative process and this encountering your demons and anxieties in this. It's it's part of the job you have to, because you come from a deep inner place and now you bring your roots out in the lights. Yes, there has. Yeah, this is, this is exactly the work. Monica: And this is why all of our paychecks need to be way higher, by the way, we're doing so much work in our sleep, even come on, we need, you know, like we got to put higher price tags on this stuff. Coco: Yeah. But to be honest, because right now in Holland, we have to do our taxes from last year. I don't know, but it's the timing here in Holland and I just need to register as my hours also. So to be honest, and I'm proud of it, but like, if I registered my hours right now, today, I've like, okay, two hour podcast, but also two hours on the bench and really also our work hours for me, it's just preparing for podcasts and I write them. And I really do, because I honor my process and I honor my cycle and I honor my creativity. So it's, for me, it's just laying on the couch is work points. Monica: I love that. Oh my gosh. Yes, absolutely. That is the best. It's true. And just to be able to really. Recognize what we truly invest. And this is also the reason that I, I love women so much, you know, I love our it's like when we're committed to making something happen, we are so committed to because you get happen and we will spend hours processing and integrating and thinking about it. And there's just a way, and I'm not saying men don't do that too, but I just think there's a way that women are so dedicated to, to this, to producing things that really. Are in service to humanity in a bigger way. And yeah, I get to say that. Yeah. Coco: Well, I, I listened to your podcast with Susan Hyatt the other day and also about emotional labor and invisible workload. And it comes because also she also talks about like, we have to honor that and we have to be very aware of it, but also again, recognize its rights and also with it's not only the productive hours, it's the whole process before and after that's. Oh, we nearly need to honor. For ourselves for our work and the roots for mother earth for everything. Monica: Yeah. Oh my gosh. I've loved this conversation so much cocoa now. How so? I have a couple more questions before we wrap up first. I want to ask you, what does revelation mean to you? Coco: Um, that's a very good question. Yeah. What does it mean for me? Well, the first word that comes up is relief. Yeah. Like seeing something completely different and in such a way that I think finally now I understand. Monica: Yeah. Oh my gosh. That's I've never heard it put that way. I love that. It's like relief. Yeah. I love that. Thank you. And if there was a question that I didn't ask you, that you would, you had wished that I had, what would that question be? Coco: Well, covered a lot. So yeah, we really lot, so, yeah, I'm pretty satisfied I think. Monica: Okay. And where, where can our listeners kind of find out more about you and how, and what, what are like, what are some last words that you would leave them with that might kind of, I don't know, be some words of wisdom that you just want to let them persiverated on for the rest of today. Yeah. Coco: Well, I think really honor your cycle. And if you find that hard, then just be aware of the way you look at productivity. And I think awareness is the first step. So really look at like your daily program and in what kind of way do I rest and make really connection to my deeper longings and. Deeper than, yeah. Uh, go with the moon flow and the seasonal flow, I think because, well, it's, it's, it's loose, very practical in that way, but the reason is like, if you look at the moon and if you look at your body, then you have like immediate proof of how it works and you'll have a reflection of yourself. So. You remember, and I think you already know, but you keep remembering yourself and give yourself permission. And I think right now it's very important to go deep work on the inner deeper truth of yourself. And yeah, you use those qualities as well, then it's much easier. Monica: Beautiful, beautiful. And where can they learn more about you? And do you have any, I don't know if I'm like you have a recommendation or something that you would point them to as a resource for kind of getting more in tuned? Yeah. Coco: Well, One of the most practical things is downloads and menstration app like a cycle app or use, uh, if you use, for example, Google calendar, integrated moon calendar, for example, and you can look at my website, I can pronounce it, but I don't know if people can, so perhaps they can just check the description. They will vape pens. Uh, www Coco hotez.com and uh, their day can just, uh, leave their email and I will send them some more information about a moon. And after my maternity leave, I will have like weekly conversation about the moon and they can just check in with the zoom, like, okay, where am I right now? So they can join me with. Monica: I love that. Okay. And so for our listeners, you always know that I'll put Coco's information in the show notes so that you don't have to like me butcher her name and Coco. I love you. Thank you for this amazing conversation and my heart. I just want to, you know, tell you that I'm really, really just feeling so much gratitude that you six weeks before the birth of your baby spent this time with us. I just appreciated it so much. And I'm so proud to bring your work to my listeners. So thank you. Coco: Yeah, thank you, Monica, for doing all the work you do for us and giving us a voice. I think it's very important that they give yourself a voice and yeah, it's so beautiful. It feels like, wow, we're all connected as women. And I really love it. So thank you for the opportunity and yeah, your creation. Monica: Thank you. Okay. And for our listeners until next time more to be revealed, We hope you enjoyed this episode. For more information, please visit us@jointherevelation.com and be sure to download our free gift, subscribe to our mailing list or leave us a review on iTunes. We thank you for your generous listening and as always more to be revealed.