151_Lynne Twist
===

Monica: Welcome to the Revelation Project podcast. I'm Monica Rogers, and this podcast is intended to disrupt the trance of unworthiness and to guide women to remember and reveal the truth of who we are. We say that life is a revelation project and what gets revealed gets healed.

Hello everyone, and welcome to. Of the Revelation Project podcast, my next guest is unstoppable in achieving her commitments, but she does so with humility. Openhearted grace and ruthless enthusiasm. She is boundlessly generous with her time, her inspiration, and even her own home. She does not distinguish between those deserving of her love and attention and those who are not.

All are welcome and appreciated for who they are in her land and she reigns with love, laughter, dance, and she absolutely loves to celebrate the good in the world. She is a global visionary and activist committed. To a future that is environmentally sustainable, spiritually fulfilling, and socially just.

She is the co-founder of the Pachemama Alliance, the founder of the Soul of Money Institute, and the author of the best selling book, the Soul of Money. Transforming your relationship with Money and Life and her forthcoming book coming out this November. Living a Committed Life, finding freedom and Fulfillment in a Purpose Larger than Yourself from working with Mother Teresa.

In Calcutta to the refugee camps in Ethiopia and the threatened rainforests of the Amazon, as well as guiding the philanthropy of some of the world's wealthiest families. Her on the ground work has brought her a deep understanding of people's relationship. With money and her breadth of knowledge and experience has led her to profound insights about the social tapestry of the world and the historical landscapes of the times we are living in.

Even coining the phrase for this century as the Sophia Century, the century of wisdom. Her compelling stories, life experiences, and her commitment and dedication to making a difference astounded and inspire me and her presence and impact on my own life has been immeasurable in full transparency. I've had the honor of being on her digital marketing team for the past few years and have grown immensely in such close proximity to her teachings and her leadership and her stand for those she serve.

Please join me in welcoming Lynne Twist. Hi, Lynne. 

Lynne: Hi, monica. What an introduction. Holy moly. Thank you very much. Oh, beautiful. 

Monica: My goodness. Well, if you keep going the way that you do, we're just gonna have a whole podcast that's just on your bio.

Oh, wow. It's so fun that we get to do this again. I'm so thrilled. I'm so excited for the world that they're about to read your second book. I mean, we were just chatting and I'll tell our listeners, Lynne was just sharing, it'll almost be 20 years since the Soul of money has been out in the world, and is this kind of like a huge milestone.

Very exciting for me to realize that. I realized that yesterday. I realized yesterday that it's not only 20 years since the Soul of Money Book came out, but also since I founded the Soul of Money Institute. I'm so excited about that cuz I didn't realize it. I kind of, I knew it was way back there, but I didn't really ever kind of name the year we started and I was looking up our papers, our incorporation papers, and there it was. 20 years ago next year. So I'm very excited about that. 

Monica: Yeah. Oh my gosh. And so much has happened. It can be profoundly inspirational to look back and just see and celebrate all that has been accomplished in a period of time. , and I know that so much has happened with the Pachamama Alliance and with the Soul of Money Institute, and you've really gone on to expand your offerings in so many way, especially in the realm of feminine leadership, which is. Been particularly exciting for me. 

Well, you've helped me with that actually. Uh uh, I must say The Revelation Project and the way you think and the way you are and the femininity with which you drive, not just drive a car, but probably do that too, but drive the social media of our work and the way you are.

Monica, you've been a huge part of that. But yes, I. Really found that there is this energy coming through, coming through me, coming through you, coming through. Many of the people that are listening, I, I can probably predict that and say that with some certainty that there is an energy coming through, that I'm naming the divine feminine and it's coming through men and women, and it is the sign of a prophecy that's been told for many, many years that this is the Sophia Century.

This is the century, the first hundred years, the first century in the third millennium. And I like saying that because sometimes we get so caught in our small lives, uh, which are very important of course, but we forget that we are the current blossom on a. Long lineage of men and women, and in particularly, let me say women, and we are the ancestors of an age to come.

And that's also what's happening right now. So this idea that we are living in the first century of the third millennium, the century, when in my view and what I've learned from many prophecies women, We'll take our rightful role in co-equal partnership with men, and the world will come into balance.

This is the century when divine feminine wisdom will meet the strengths and sometimes dominance of the patriarchy in a way that it, it relaxes. Tones down a bit and both the heart and the mind of humanity will work together in ways that we haven't for hundreds of years. So that's what I feel is happening and that's what I feel the Soul of Money Institute.

And a lot of your work is fomenting, is expanding, is igniting, is naming. So I love that. 

Monica: I love that too. I love this idea too, of feminine leadership because as it's an energy that we all embody, you know, and I find that men too are longing to activate more of the feminine. Leadership model into their lives.

And of course we've kind of identified together what some of those values are, but they tie in so beautifully with your new book, living A Committed Life. And I 

mean, it's just like, what a segue. And I would love for you to share Lynne, with our listeners, just like, why did you write this book and what do you hope readers will get out of it?

Well, I actually sometimes, I don't know. How to answer that question, but I'll, I'll just tell you the story. Well, my dear, dear, dear friend Jack Canfield, who wrote Chicken Soup for the Soul, which is a series that has sold, I don hundreds and hundreds of millions of books, just more books than probably anybody on earth.

Uh, one time when I was in a conference with him and I was speaking and I told some stories that were, you know, that were pretty riveting for me and, and also kind of got to the audience. And Jack was one of the moderators at the conference. He said to me afterwards, you have got to write a book of stories.

You have got to get these stories written down. They're so awesome. And I started thinking, well, I don't have time to do that. I'm not really, I don't consider myself so much of an author as I do a communicator. And he said, no worries. Come to my house. I'll get. 20, 30 people in my living room in Santa Barbara will get my team, my, my, uh, chicken souper, the sole team.

I'll interview you. I'll just ask you questions, you tell stories. We'll videotape and record, we'll transcribe everything. And it'll be the beginning of a new book. And I couldn't turn that down. I mean, it sounded so fun and he's so wonderful and so generous. And so I did it and I told, I don't know how many stories, but we ended up with a, a story bank of maybe 110 or 130 stories, let's say.

It sat in a Story bank on Digital Story Bank for a couple years, and I kept thinking, God, Jack was so kind. I should get to that. I should get to that. And nothing happened until Mary Chase, so I have to acknowledge her. Mary Chase, who's a collaborative writer, she's, some people call her ghost writer, but she's a collaborative writer.

In other words, she helps someone who's got a. Get it out of themselves onto the page or takes conversations that she generates with the person and, uh, using their words makes a book out of it. And she said, I'd love to do a book with you, Lynne. And I said, you are years old, . Yes. And so Mary and I then for the next couple years, years, met, um, maybe two, three times a week when I was in town for an hour here, two hours there.

And she would ask me just the right questions. And record everything, then transcribe it. And it started to build into not the story of my life, but the story of my life as a committed life, as an example of a committed life. And the story of many of the people that I know and love that I've spent time with, that I've collaborated with as equal and even more powerful examples or expressions of living what I call a committed life.

As we were doing that work, I realized that there is this world we're living in. That's where every institution is crumbling. The economy, our healthcare, our governments, our democracy, plus the massive, massive challenge of climate, the climate crisis, everything seems to be falling apart around us, and we could be depressed or in despair or lose our way, or we could recommit.

To making a difference with our lives. And so this book, I felt, I began to feel it wasn't just to, you know, make Jack can feel happy, which I think it'll it'll, but I start to realize how relevant it is to step into a bigger life for people living at this time in history, to live with commitments larger than their own lives.

And when I really examine my own. What's created me, what's served me, what's given me happiness and fulfillment and a sense of being and what's shaped me is the big commitments I've made.

Monica: Mm-hmm.

Lynne: it's not like you need to be all shaped up and smart and with it to make a big commitment, you know, be able to fulfill the commitment you make.

No, it's kind of the other way around, and I've discovered that with my own life and the people I've talked with, given that the world is. Disintegrating before our very eyes that the systems and structures we're living in are becoming so dysfunctional that they're falling apart. Uh, our democracy, governance, healthcare, uh, the education system, the economic models that we've relied on for so long are not working anymore.

Uh, everything's kind of falling apart and the climate crisis is the hugest part of all of that. It's clear that what people. Need in their own lives is a bigger purpose. That's what they need. That's what we need coming out of our shutdown. With Covid coming out of our smallness and worrying about ourselves and being a little bit too self-centered and self, uh, you know, self-absorbed.

We need a bigger purpose. All of us need, and my God, we've got it. The world is a mess. It is a mess. So to inspire people to live what I call a committed life, which is having a purpose larger than your own life, starring you, that shapes you into the kind of person you have always wanted to be rather than, than trying to be the kind of person you wanna be and then taking on a commitment because you think you're ready.

No, I'm suggesting it's the other way around. When you take a take on a huge monster, amazing commitment, whatever that is for you. , it shapes you into being the kind of person you need to be to fulfill it. It's the opposite of what people think. So the book is designed or written, the answer to your question is to meet the moment of our time.

Monica: Mm-hmm. 

Lynne: To inspire, to ignite, to open the door for people to step into a much larger understanding of why they're. Who they are, what their role is at this critical time in history, and have that be the path that they choose. Because on that path, I can promise them is fulfillment on that path. I can promise them is a kind of, uh, prosperity and confidence and joy that is available through turning yourself.

To a purpose larger than yourself, and people think that that's a burden or a sacrifice, but actually it's the opposite. You know, when you try to keep your options open and you're not sure what to do with your life, that's really a kind of tyranny. But when you make a choice and you go for it, you're free.

It's actually the source of enormous freedom and fulfillment. So that's what the book is about, and that's what's designed to do. And I interview and interviewed, like you're interviewing me. I interview all kinds of amazing people that I admire so that I could really talk about them as well as my own choices and see what are the keys, what are the distinctions to living a committed life and make those available to everybody who read.

So that's why I wrote the book. 

Monica: There's so much I love about this, not the least of which is that Mary and Jack were your book midwives. You know, I also love what you said about, it's actually the opposite. It's the big commitments that have shaped us. And so I was thinking about that as you were speaking and I was like, you know, the one that comes right up for me, and of course I'm sure there are many, many of them that I'm just starting to distinguish for.

But when I think about, for example, becoming a parent, 

Lynne: Hmm.

Monica: Like that commitment to my children has shaped me and has continued to shape me. And you know, they say for example, like there's no good time to start a family, right? And there's all these great reasons for not, or doing it, but sometimes we're destined.

There's something calling to us, and I believe that part of my destiny. Was to become a parent. You know, I, in so many ways, it was the thing that revealed my, actually, like all of these incredible nurturing qualities that I have that I would not have been in touch with to this depth without having experienced what it was to be a biological mother in that.

And I think that all of us have these experiences that call us forth, or we think that there's something happening to us versus for us. And sometimes it seems like the universe is like helping us decide. But I also always love what you say about how the universe really. Buyers once we do commit to something to making it happen. And I wondered if you could talk more about that. 

Lynne: Well, there's a wonderful commitment quote that most people, many people know. I'll just try to give you my version of it. You notice when you actually are not so sure you wanna do something and you're not so sure it's. Gonna work and you're a little bit hesitant, and then you're, you talk to people and you get their opinion and you're sort of, your life is sort of lateral, you know, going from side to side and not moving forward because you haven't made the choice.

But then once you commit, and this is the, the quote, once you commit Providence moves to. All kinds of unforeseen things happen to support and nourish and affirm your commitment and things start falling into place. The quote is much more elegant than that. It's from W H Murray talking to, uh, the man who climbed Mount Everest.

Monica: Mm-hmm.

Lynne: But what does happen is the universe supports those of us who commit in particular ways. Once you have that commitment, you're firm and clear about it, then things start to fall into place to support you that you could never have predicted and may never have happened without your commitment. I think it creates what I call a clear.

For magic, for miracles, for intentionality, for, it's like a magnetism, and we know this from, you know, the heroes and heroines we have in our lives. If you think about the people that you really, really admire, it wasn't that they did it for themselves. I'll think of Martin Luther King for example, who I greatly admire.

Everybody does. He wasn't trying to be a famous minister. He wasn't trying to be a household name. He wasn't certainly committed to being a martyr, but he was committed to a purpose so much larger than himself. It wasn't just about his own children, it was about all children, black and white, and brown and red.

Whatever color your skin is. Martin Luther King was. Advocate, he was your champion. He was for you. And that large, yes. That generosity shaped him into being, uh, an orator where just hearing the sound of his voice, you know, stirs your soul. 

Monica: Mm-hmm.

Lynne: When I, I think about someone, you know, now he's gone, but I think about Jane Goodall too, because Jane is another.

Icon for me. She's 10 years older than I am, and she really has not only been a brilliant scientist and primatologist and really given us the access to understanding the consciousness of other species, she's also committed her life to make a difference that empowers indigenous people, that empowers other species, that protects the natural world.

And she's particularly dedicated to young people. And when I think about how. Brilliant. She has become, she probably was always a smart person. I'm not saying she wasn't, but the, the way she walks in this world now. There isn't, you know, I, I don't know if I've ever met anybody that doesn't admire her and isn't inspired by her.

Think about Oprah. Oprah who was born into poverty, who got pregnant at age 13, and then, you know, had to lost the baby, but, but got thrown out of her own house. You know, she had an education, but she wasn't highly, highly educated. And look at what she's done with her life. It comes from her commit. , and of course she had some good breaks, but I say the commitment opened the way for her part of the water.

When she committed herself to be one of the most powerful and heartful broadcasters, interviewers in the world, then everything started to happen in her favor rather than things broken her favor. So she decided to do that. So I think the way things work, the way the universe works is the universe. Loves commitment.

The universe loves intentionality. The universe loves when we take a stand for who we are and what we're here to do. The universe loves it when we use our life to make this world go beyond what we inherited, and I just believe that's the way it works, and it doesn't just open up all kinds of opportunities and things kind of fall into place.

It opens up you. It opens up your heart, it opens up your talent, your energy. You start to discover your own treasure because you need to find that to fulfill your commitment. 

Monica: I just had a total revelation while you were talking actually, that it commitment that brings us from being ordinary people. Into extraordinary people and it's like, oh, that's how that happens, you know, is actually through commitment.

Because a lot of people might say, oh, Oprah was destined to be Oprah, but I don't know if that's true. I think actually. It's like, this is what makes this conversation so accessible to every human being is that it's actually our commitment that transforms us from ordinary into extraordinary. Exactly.

Lynne: Exactly. That's the purpose of my book. I love that so much. 

Monica: Oh my gosh. I just got it like in a whole new way because I, I also, I was getting the chills a little bit and I was getting a little, uh, emotional earlier because I was thinking as I was leafing through your book. Again, I brag, I have an advanced copy that.

I was really relating where I was in my life and seeing you speak on stage to where you were in your life when you met Buckminster Fuller. 

Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Monica: and I, I wondered if you could share that story for our listeners, because something changed in you from hearing someone else speak their commitment. 

Lynne: Yes. Well, Buckminster Fuller was a really great, great human being, and a very, very important part of my life. Many people now of days, uh, may or may not know his name, but he was in the 20th century. He was an inventor, an engineer, an architect, and often called the grandfather of the future. And he was a, a, a man who as a young father, after he had a, an illness and he lost one of his children andhe was destitute. And he was standing on the banks of a river and thought, my life is worthless and I'm a throwaway person, and I'm a failure as a father. I'm a failure as an entrepreneur. I'm a failure as a, in every possible way. I'm just gonna take my life. And then he had an insight instead of jumping in the river and drowning himself, that if he was a throwaway person, if his life was that meaningless, what if he took this meaning?

Human being himself and committed himself to see if one human being. Could make a difference that would impact all of humanity. The phrase he used was one little individual. What if one little individual could live a life that would make a difference for all of humanity? And he used to say one ordinary individual.

And then from then on he chose to live rather than die. And he. Used his life as an experiment, as a laboratory for that possibility. And as, uh, many people who do know who he was, know that he went on to invent the Geodesic Dome. He invented an electric car, uh, 19 50, 19 49. Foreseen the end of fossil fuels.

He was a total visionary. He was an extraordinary thinker. He was known throughout the world as, uh, one of the greatest and most outside of the box innovative thinkers of our time. And so in, uh, 1976, I went to hear him speak. I knew of him. I revered him. I respected him, but I had never seen him. And by then he was in his eighties.

Buckminster Fuller, we was affectionately called bucking. He was a kind of a short little fire plug of a guy cuz kind of shaped like a fire plug. I don't know why I think that, but somehow that's what he reminded me of. And like a grandpa Bald had thick glasses and a wonderful. A manner of way of being just very loving.

And I went to this Marin Civic Center, which is an auditorium here outside of San Francisco to him speak. And I remember everything about that day because I remember where I sat. I remember what I was wearing. I remember the feeling I had in the auditorium. As Buckminster Fuller came on the stage and everybody cheered and stood up and gave him the standing ovation.

And then he began and he was a, a beautiful communicator, very humble. Uh, and he talked in, in big powerful scientific terms sometimes, mostly that I didn't understand any of what he was saying to tell you the honest to god truth, I had no idea what he was talking about, but the way he was. Who he was, the way he loved what he was saying, the way he loved the universe.

He was speaking about the intellectual integrity of the universe, and he was so enamored with nature and science and how this molecules and cells and, I don't know, I had no idea what he was talking about, but at one point he stepped in front of, Table, utility table that had models on it, scientific models, and he went out closer to the audience, right at the edge of the stage and he looked out at the audience and he connected, really connected with each and every person.

I think he certainly connected with me and he said, Now I'm going to say the most important thing I've ever said or ever will say. And even though I didn't understand most what he was talking about, I thought, well, I, I kinda understand this one thing, whatever it is. And as I said, I just loved the way he was, but understanding him was beyond me.

But then when he said this, I thought, I'm gonna understand this next thing if there's nothing else I understand in this whole presentation. And then he put out his arm. He said, humanity has recently crossed. A critical threshold and he held out his arm and put his arm, other arm across it to show that we crossed this threshold, this line?

Monica: Mm-hmm.

Lynne: And he said, this threshold is critical and it changes everything. And he said, humanity is now doing so much more. So much less. And that is the direction of our genius, the direction of our innovation, the direction of our science that we now 1976, live in a world where there is enough for everyone.

Everywhere to have a healthy and productive life. And when Buckminster Fuller said the word enough in that sentence, we now have enough for everyone everywhere to live a healthy and productive life. I started to cry. I got a Kudalini thing up my spine, my hands started for Spire. I must confess, I did not understand what he was talking about, but I got what he was talking about and what I got was that there is enough.

For everyone, everywhere to have a healthy and productive life, that the world is sufficient. And he said that means we move from a mindset, a belief, a way of seeing everything of scarcity. That there's not enough for everyone and someone's always gonna be left out, so we have to shore up for ours and leave everybody else out.

That means that mindset of scarcity, which is based in a you or me paradigm. Either you make it. At my expense, or I make it at your expense to a new paradigm, a paradigm of enough rather than scarcity, a paradigm of sufficient resources for everyone. Paradigm of sufficiency in who we are. And he said that changes everything because that goes from a you or me paradigm where you make it at my.

Or I make it at your expense because there's not enough for both of us to a you and me paradigm where you and I both make it at no one's expense, and that's a completely different world. That's a world where sufficiency is the central experience of life. And he said, then it'll take 50 years, and this is in 1976.

It will take 50 years or so. For us to realize this because all the institutions of humankind are rooted in a you or me paradigm, the economy is clearly rooted in a scarcity paradigm. The education system is rooted in a you or me paradigm. governance is rooted in a U or ME paradigm. Clearly politics isn't rooted in a U or ME paradigm.

And he said, even religion is rooted in a U or ME paradigm. Wow. So that all of these institutions will need to become so dysfunctional and will become so dysfunctional that they'll start to fall apart. Probably in about 50 years, he said. And then we can recreate life. Regenerate everything from a you and me.

Monica: Oh my God. 

Lynne: A paradigm of enough, a paradigm of sufficiency, a paradigm of connectivity, a paradigm of all one, A paradigm of no separation, a paradigm. We all make it. That was the message from Bucky Fuller and from that moment on, I saw the world completely differently and that's when I really, I think, probably began what I call my committed life.

And I didn't even understand really what I was doing, but I was in my heart of hearts committed. To bringing forth a world of sufficiency, a world of you and me, a world where all of us make it at no one's expense. A world that works for everyone, with no one and nothing left out. 

Monica: I mean, my heart right now is just so expanded and like, What you're pointing to as well is that moment that our we're a whole body like hell Yes.

Because when we hear that truth spoken, it changes us at a cellular level and it immediately busts, you know, these lies of scarcity. And I'm also having this revelation right now, Lynne, about the relationship actually between. Commitment and scarcity, or what I should say, the lie that keeps us from living a committed life because of our resignation or our cynicism around this is just the way it is.

You know that that is one of the lies of scarcity. 

Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Monica: So it's literally like we are busting through this illusion and these. You know, where we've been told that we are this way and it is this way, and life is this way, and it's just this big lie that we need to kind of reveal so that we can step into the fullness of our lives and dare to commit, like you said, to something that we have no idea how we're gonna get accomplished.

All we know is that it turns us on to think about it, right. Actually is a huge turn on to think that that could be possible. 

Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Monica: and I love too what you shared about Bucky, because I think those of us that have been through a dark night, and I believe we're all collectively going through kind of this.

Eye of the needle, this dark night of the soul where we are all having to remember the truth of who we are. And that doesn't come without a whole lot of discomfort at times. And I wish that that was different. But the fact of the matter is that that is often a disguised gift in our lives because, Kind of in the rubble of our human experience.

You know, when we're, when we kind of think that we've , we've hit the bottom floor and then we realize that it has an underground garage, you know, that we , that we can just keep kind of falling and falling until we're, we're actually ready to be on our knees to kind of ask. Is there anybody out there that actually, you know, can, can I actually believe in this greater power?

Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Monica: that can help reveal the path to a different reality because I'm sick of this suffering kind of conversation, you know? So I just love that like even. Somebody like Buckminster Fuller, that Oprah Winfrey, that all of these people share kind of this moment where they had to decide, you know, if they were gonna carry on or if they were gonna kind of throw in the towel. So I'm curious, was there ever a time in your life where you felt like, get giving up? 

Lynne: Oh my God, are you kidding? Yes, of course. . You know, I think that, I think it's really important what you're saying, that the, I'll, I'll, I'll answer that in a second, but I do think it's important. That we realize that the darkness, the shadow, the uh, the breakdowns, the, the, the tragedies, the the failures are so important in deepening our heart so that we can feel more deeply the experience of love when we come back.

To center. Mm-hmm. , you know, that, that the most of the people who've accomplished something truly great have a, a tragedy there somewhere, or a darkness or something that came out of just like Bucky. Yeah. You know, he was suicidal. And I too, I cite the death of my father. My father died. When I was the day before my 14th birthday, and often young girls, and it was true for me at age 12, 13, you're sort of in love with your dad if you have a wonderful father, and I did.

He was a musician and he died very, very suddenly without any warning. He died of a heart attack in his sleep age, 50, so very young. And when he died, it was such a shock, of course, to my mother who was sleeping in the same bed with him and there was no struggle. He, she just tried to wake him up in the morning.

She couldn't wake him. So, you know, it was a horrible shock for her. And there's four children, four of us. I was the third of four. My mom was so overwhelmed because he was a famous musician that she couldn't really tend to us. So I had to find my way. Uh, with that tragedy. And, and he was for me, like any young girl, but I'll just say for me, because I was also very involved in music as a result of my dad.

He hung the moon. He was, he, everything was about can I, can I make him happy? Can I measure up to who he wants me to be? It was all, I was all about that when I was 13 years old and then he died. And I thought it was my fault. 

Monica: Mm-hmm.

Lynne: Now you can't blame a heart attack on anybody, but I as a child, you sometimes when you lose a parent or when something bad happens, you often think, what did I do wrong?

And I became completely devoted to building my life in a way that I could make a difference and really make it up to my. And you know, it sounds so silly. Maybe not silly, but maybe a little bit Pollyanna, but I know that that tragedy deepened my heart and my capacity to feel so much when I came out of that.

I had a kind of strength. A kind of resolve, a kind of depth that I wouldn't have had if my father Hadn died. Uh, so I think that's one of my origin stories you could say. Mm-hmm. . And then along the way in my life before the Pachamana alliance was, was really formed and founded, or while that was happening, the Pacha MA Alliance, being an organization I founded.

With my husband, Bill and John Perkins that works in the Amazon with indigenous people. I got very, very sick. I got malaria. I had been working on ending world hunger, and I was exposed all the time to malaria, but I'd never gotten it. And then, . I got very sick in about 19 96, 19 97, and I was sick for nine months and we didn't know what it was and I had to stop all the things that I was doing.

I was a mom. I was, I was a mom. I was a executive with something called the Hunger Project Managing. Operations in 53 countries. I was a moderator for something called the State of the World Forum. I was just all over the place, and then I had to just stop and let everything go, and I got really, really sick.

And that deepened my heart. That made me realize that a new calling was coming through, that the indigenous people of the Amazon were calling me. I had a, a complete revelation. In the context of the darkness, the illness, the breakdown. And so the, um, one of the chapters in the book is talks about that every breakdown, no matter how tragic, no matter how severe, has in it the seeds of a breakthrough.

Monica: Mm. 

Lynne: And if you, if you know that, and if you look for them, if you water them, The breakthrough will be bigger than the breakdown every time. But if you wallow in the breakdown, feel sorry for yourself, not see it as happening for you rather than to you. If you, if you think you're the victim of it, maybe for a while you can think that, then you do.

But if you can find a way to see that it may be happening for you rather than to you, as you said earlier, then the seeds of the breakthrough start to. , they start to show you where you need to water and fertilize, and you can come out of any breakdown with a much bigger breakthrough than that breakdown, no matter how severe.

And so that's, I think, in everybody's life. We have example after example, after example. And this is really a powerful opportunity to realize that, so that the context of your life is larger than poor. , but you're being shaped, you're being taught, and who you are is being, as you say, so beautifully, Monica revealed. Revealed. 

Monica: Yes, yes to all of that. And you know, you write about being proximate to suffering and I'm thinking about what you just said, and that's truly for me, been like my own suffering. Has brought me so much compassion. Like it's, it's really been, again, like that tenderizer, you know, it's made me so much more tender, so much more humane, my own suffering, and so, You talk about being proximate to suffering and not turning away from the pain of the world.

And I love that too because it, it's really important that we don't. But what else I really realize is important is not allowing ourselves to get so overwhelmed by all of it. Because what happens is that we begin despairing and. When we think about our commitment and all of the human beings, if we're each kind of doing what I call our own revelation project, we're not trying to do hers or his right.

I'm just here to do my revelation project. I'm gonna stay inside my hula hoop. Then my question becomes, what is mind to do? 

Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Monica: Right? And that's. I also would love for you to talk more about that and what you've learned about that and why you continue to encourage us to continue to look, don't look away, but also kind of get really.

It actually almost, I'm, I'm making this up as I go along, but it actually probably helps us become more clear about what is ours to do. 

Lynne: Yeah. Well, yes, I, I've been very, very privileged to work on work for the Hunger Project. And get engaged deeply, deeply engaged and committed to ending world hunger. And that took me to Ethiopia after the 19 84, 19 85 fam, and it took me to India many, many, many times over the years.

Um, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Guinea, Bussau, The Gambia, uh, Senegal, Ghana, places where there's poverty and hunger. Profound suffering. I was in Liberia after the war in Mozambique after the war. I've seen heartbreaking situations. I've held dying babies in my arms that I could not save. They were. Beyond the point of, of, uh, starving so, so desperately that they were, couldn't be saved.

And obviously it breaks your heart. It's exhausting. Your emotions are so intense, you can't even, you know, kind of stay upright at the same time. In all of those situations, even I'm thinking in Bangladesh when I held a baby and she died in my arms, the capacity to experience pain, the capacity to connect with those who were suffering.

In that case, the mother of this child, or in Ethiopia after the famine with women who lost all of their children to starvation, to connect with that. Even though they weren't my children, those experiences have really shaped me so that my capacity for productivity, my capacity for listening deeply, my capacity for being moved, my capacity for expressing joy, all of it is, has been dramatically expand.

And in many ways nourished by being proximate to suffering, being open to not turning away from the pain of the world, but turning toward it. And it's also inspired me because we all know this from, you know, these recent climate events where floods have, have had people, you know, just had to, they've lost, lost everything or fires here in Northern California and.

How they go on and how we help each other in these times of tragedy is so inspiring. That's when you see who you really are. That's when you see who people really are. That's when people's heart is, is in their mouth, I, I should say, rather than their mind. They don't have opinions anymore. They don't have points of view anymore.

They just wanna help. They wanna make it better. They wanna lend a hand, they wanna serve, they wanna save. We all have. . And so sometimes it takes a disaster, a heartbreak for you to remember the deep power of your own heart. Or the deep power of someone else's heart or as a witness to suffering. I'm very grateful for those experiences and I never turned away from them.

At the beginning, I didn't know how I was gonna make it through, but now I see the, what's called the beauty in the middle. That's a phrase from Africa. Mm-hmm. that no matter how dark. Horrible. It gets particularly for, for African women in, in the Congo, there's a beauty in the middle. There's the beauty in the middle of every human being.

No matter how angry or hurt or terrible they get. There's always beauty in the middle. And if you're willing to, if you know that and you're willing to look for it and listen for it, it's always there. And the more challenging the situation, the more difficult, the more deep your experiences of the beauty in the middle.

Monica: I love that. I love that so much. The beauty in the middle. You know, I also, I love that Jack encouraged you to write. This book from the perspective of all of these stories, because one of the things that I've really been recognizing lately is that it's, it's our stories that are changing the world, and it's by sharing our stories and sharing what we've witnessed in our lives.

And it was actually your story of serving with Mother Teresa. Became my kind of kundalini moment, so to speak, you know, where I watched you speak and just felt this rising and this cellular change happen in me. And this was of course years before, you know, we started working together. So again, there's so much divine choreography in my life, just as you.

From the moment, you know, like I decided that I was enough, you know, that I could actually make a difference in some way, shape, or form, and that my suffering would not have been in vain, because that's another part of this is that I think it. If suffering is part of the human experience and it's in a lot of ways what, I mean, I know, I understand that it can go either way for a lot of people, but I think the invitation here is to actually let it break you open.

Yes. Because that's when we. Find what you were just saying is like, it's our heart that then will lead the way. 

Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Monica: and it's our heart that is kind of the, I'll call it the beacon, you know that that kind of transmits our intention out to the universe and then the universe responds and it's just such a beautiful, miraculous experience.

And I think that's what we're really talking about when we talk about magic. In this world is all of the things that start orienting around your commitment and your intention when you're clear about it, when you're willing to give your life in service to something. And when I say service, I wanna be very clear that I do not mean sacrifice, because that's a big distinction for women.

There's a way that we're not, this isn't a conversation or you know, your book is not about. Sacrifice. It's about service. 

Lynne: Yeah. That's a great distinction. I think it's interesting because sacrifice has gotten a good name, but I think it belongs in the 20th century, not the 21st. . 

Monica: Thank you. Yes. 

Lynne: I think it's it. I think it's, it goes, it goes the way of charity, which I, I, I think belongs in the 20th century, not in the 21st. I think we're moving from charity to solidarity. Mm. I think we're moving from sacrifice to true service. And when you're in, it's a, it's an evolutionary, uh, leap really to go from charity to solidarity, co-equal partnership to make something happen.

It's not like there's poor people and rich people need the gift of them. That's a good idea, but it's not gonna solve anything. What's really. Powerful is coming together as equals. You have financial resources, I have resources. I understand, let's say in Ethiopia, I understand the local language. I can navigate the difficult government.

I can see when my cattle are thirsty by the color of their fur. You, you don't know that, but you have financial resources and you have power in the modern world. So let's work together to, to transform Ethiopia, you know, like that. So yes, feel like that's solidarity, not charity. Sacrifice. And I'll say a little bit about charity too.

It a little bit has out, there's an integrity missing there. Obviously. I loved Mother Teresa and she was the model of charity and that was right for her time. But now service includes. Your own wellbeing, your own capacity to be useful and your own happiness. It includes you. It's not about you, but it includes you.

You can't make the world work for everyone with no one and nothing left out if you're not in that picture yourself. And when we stand apart from what we're serving, if I can put it this way, there's an arrogance. Because everyone knows that it's in the service that the fulfillment of your dreams also come true.

You know that when we say we're fighting for the earth, I would say that's a little bit of a misunderstanding or even right there, or fighting for the forest. We are the forests fighting for themselves. We are an expression of the earth, fighting for the long term sustainability of our ecosystems. We are of all of this.

Monica: Mm-hmm.

Lynne: So it's not like I help you over there. You and I are one in some way, that my job is to be of service to you, and that nourishes me as much as it nourishes. And we are in a co-equal partnership here. There's this beautiful thing that you can't give unless someone receives and the receiving fulfills the giver.

So it's, it can't be just a one way street. It never really, really is when it's effective. So I love that. And so I think when you're, when you start to be in sacrifice with your own work, Check your integrity meter. Are you out of integrity with yourself? Yeah. Are you out of, are you somehow holier than thou?

Are you somehow, let's see. There's an arrogance 

Monica: being the martyr. 

Lynne: Yeah. There's an arrogance in there that one wants it. Cause when you're really of service, you're filled with humility and grace and you know it and you can feel it. Yeah. And you're the instrument of something larger than yourself

Monica: Just makes me smile. Makes my heart smile. . 

Lynne: That's because you're in service all the time. 

Monica: Yes. Yes I am. It's true. Thank you. It's true. Mm-hmm. . And, okay, so maybe a last question. So my question is, what would you say to our listeners? I would say that they're predominantly women, although I do know that I have many men that listen. What would you say?

Or how would you invite them to take the first step forward in living what you call a committed life? 

Lynne: Well, let me see. What, uh, sometimes is a, a hint, , or a clue, or maybe even a marker, is to remember when you were a child, what really called to you. For example, if you were on the playground and you saw somebody being bully, And you right away went over and did whatever you need to do to get it to stop because you would make sure that the person who was being bullied was okay.

Maybe you are a person who is drawn to, to justice for all people. If your heroes and heroines when you were a child. A certain kind of person. Suppose you loved Maya Angelou and David White and, and you just love Amanda Gorman. Maybe your calling is that you're a, you're a wordsmith, you're a poet, you're a, how you serve is through writing or highlighting those beautiful.

Parts of literature that teach maybe you're, so you, you kind of look and see what, there's usually a trail or a train or a, a theme. If you look into your life in a particular way, what always calls to me, what stirs my soul, What am I longing to be engaged with? Where is my heart most broken open when I hear about this, that, or the other thing that I wanna do something about it.

So there's clues all the way through your life, every job you've ever had, every relationship you've ever had, the people you admire the way you were as a child. There's clues, but I'd say most of all, and the times that we're living. Are calling, calling, calling for everybody to get on the playing field. I mean, nobody should be in the stands.

Nobody probably can be in the stands, but it's not the place to be. It's be on the field playing your heart out. 

Monica: Mm-hmm. 

Lynne: And if you ask for guidance, you will get it. , it's amazing. If you ask for guidance, you will get it sometimes so fast you think, well that could be it. That's too fast, . So I feel also that because of the climate, emergency that we're in, that the guidance is coming through nature.

It's coming through trees, it's coming through grass, it's coming through food, it's coming through flowers, it's coming through skies, it's coming through sun. It's coming through weather events. I go out and sit at the base of a redwood tree, tree I live in. Northern California. So I, I'm so fortunate to, to be in the company of these enormously powerful beings.

They're in some cases a thousand years old or more, and I sit at a base of one of those trees and the wisdom is just pouring out of them. If I ask. So those are a few things. And then, you know, there's a wonderful quote from Howard Thurman that I'll, I'll see if I can remember. Don't ask what the world needs.

Ask what makes your heart sing, what makes you come alive? And go and do that. Mm-hmm. , because what the world needs is people who've come alive and people whose hearts are singing. So that quote is the best answer I can give to your question. 

Monica: It, that's the best answer to my question. . . Excellent. Perfect.

Perfect. And so, Lynne, is there anywhere you want to invite our audience to come learn more about you or order the book? Anything else that you wanna say as parting words? 

Lynne: Well, first of all, thank you, Monica, for always, always being such a beautiful ally for the right things and the right reasons and the right people.

And I'm so grateful that you're an ally for me and for my work. 

Monica: Mm-hmm.

Lynne: and for Sarah Vetter and for her work. Fabulous business partner and managing director and great soul. And I would love for people to go to the soul of money.org website and sign up to be part of our, you know, email communications, our Wednesday wisdoms, our courses, uh, our free gift.

I would love for people to buy the, the Soul of Money book, which I wrote a long time ago, but still is relevant today. Probably more relevant than it was, so, Voted and then I would love for people to order my new book I'm so excited about called Living a Committed Life. Finding freedom and fulfillment in a purpose larger than yourself, living a committed life, finding freedom and fulfillment in a purpose larger than yourself.

And you can order it now, even though it's not coming out until November 29th. I don't know when this will run, but you can order it now wherever you are and whatever time of day and night it is. On any of the Barnes and Nobles and Porch Light and book list and Amazon and, and, uh, soon it'll, uh, be even in bookstores.

So would love for people to buy that book and buy it for others for Christmas, because I actually do think, I know it's got my name on it and Mary Chase my wonderful collaborative offer. But I do think it is the message of our time and I happen to be an instrument of. So I invite you to buy that book and find out what's yours to do so that you can step into it in 2023 and for the rest of your life.

Monica: Thank you so much, Lynne. I love you So, so, so much. And for our listeners, I'm just going to end with a quote from chapter one of Lynne's book, which begins with a quote from George BernardShaw. And it's entitled A Splendid Torch. This is the true joy in life, the being used for a purpose recognized by yourself as a mighty one.

The being a force of nature instead of a feverish, selfish little clod of ailments and grievances. Complaining that the world will not devote itself to making you happy. I am of the opinion that my life belongs to the whole community, and as long as I live, it is my privilege to do for it whatever I can.

I want to be thoroughly used up when I die. For the harder I work, the more I live. I rejoice in life for its own sake. Life is no brief candle to me. It is a sort of splendid torch, which I've got a hold of for the moment, and I wanna make it burn as brightly as possible before handing it on to future generations.

Lynne: Thank you. 

Monica: Thank you. And for our listeners, I'll be sure to put all of these links and resources in the show notes. And until next time, more to be revealed. We hope you enjoyed this episode. For more information, please visit us at jointherevelation.com and be sure to download our free gift, subscribe to our mailing list or leave us a review on iTunes.

We thank you for your generous listening and as always, Be revealed.