131 Dr. Dorothy Martin Neville === Monica: Welcome to the Revelation Project Podcast. I'm Monica Rogers, and this podcast is intended to disrupt the trance of unworthiness and to guide women, to remember and reveal the truth of who we are. We say that life is a revelation project and what gets revealed. Hello everyone. And welcome to another episode of The Revelation Project Podcast. Today, I'm with Dorothy Martin Neville, a PhD and an international speaker, author consultant, and master coach. She's also a frequent radio podcast and television guest, and is also past president of the national speakers association in Connecticut and the founder of four companies as a psychotherapist. Dr. Dorothy was in practice for 25 plus years as a motivational speaker. And she brought a history of living in an orphanage, being adopted and raised in the housing projects of south Boston in an alcoholic home. Through her stories. She later became a Catholic nun and international airline stewardess, and so much more showing that faith, humor, and passion make anything possible today, whether supporting individual clients in recognizing and living their purpose or supporting CEOs in creating a culture of purpose within their organization. Dr. Dorothy brings firsthand knowledge of the challenges facing those who want to live and work in a culture that feeds rather than drains them in that light. Dorothy has supported highly successful women from all levels of success park AV NYC to a small town in Maine, consequently patterns and similarities in leadership are readily understood as she brings extensive wisdom, knowledge, and experience to the table. Combining her recognition that mindset and communication skills are what sets us apart with her ability to make the complicated, simple. Dr. Dorothy is someone to learn from whether as a speaker trainer, coach, or consultant, please join me in welcoming Dr. Dorothy Martin Neville. Hey, Dorothy. Dorothy: Hey there. How are you? Monica: I'm so glad to have you on the show. Thank you so much. I'm grateful to be able to hang out with you a little bit and have some fun, because I, I do know that you are also all about the levity and the laughter. Yes. I often say that we're screwed if we don't have that. Dorothy: Yeah. Without humor and faith, I don't know how anybody gets through this journey. I really don't. Monica: I don't either. Dorothy: We need lots of faith and lots of humour. Monica: You really do. You really do. And Dr. Dorothy and I were chatting right before we came on the call and of course having grown up in Boston, I was telling her that my dad also grew up right outside of Boston. And so. Saying things like down cellar and bang the u-e, all the terms go pack the car, Monica moniker. That's what he called me. Monica was everything had an R where it didn't belong, you know? Dorothy: No, Monica: She's like I disagree. Dorothy: Yeah. But it is funny. People want it, want us to say things that don't make any sense, you know, like back the car in Harvard Yard somehow they think that's really fun. But if they had any experience, they would know you can never pack a car and have it yet. There is not a place over there to pack anything. So it's just a way to hear us. And I think we say are appropriately, uh, CA R, are there, so, yeah. Monica: All right. I love it. I love it. What else would they say? Okay. So the other thing he would say is blueberry, like blueberry pie. Dorothy: Yeah. Yeah. Monica: The result. There's some interesting, well, Dorothy: I understood completely. Yeah. That's how you say it. Monica: I do. I miss it. You're just going to be great today to hear, to hear about this. Well, and actually that's where I would love to start you. And I did, I believe I've said I've seen you speak a couple of times and both, both times I was blown away. One, you were telling the story of your childhood. And then the other, of course we were part of Tara Lynn Curry Avery's course on dismantling racism. Dorothy: She's an amazing woman and Monica: She's guesting next week. Dorothy: Oh, good. You're going to have a good time with her. She's a riot. Monica: Yeah, she is. She's the best. And I've learned so much from her. And so actually I'd love to start. There's so much, I want to ask you about today. And I know that we wanna, I w I want to get into talking a little bit more about women's leadership, but I always love to ask the first question, which is what does revelation mean to you? Dorothy: Revelation is to me, the willingness to see. What is, Hm. So many of us don't want to deal in that world. We want to live in our solutions. So when we are willing to give up our illusions and see what is without our filters, without our projections, sometimes that's pretty frightening because we're, we're left looking at what's reality versus what we want reality to look like. And that can be very hard for some people. Yeah. It's very freeing for others, but it can be very difficult for some, because it means giving up illusion Monica: I would love to unpack that a little bit because I think, you know what illusion is when you're not in it anymore. Dorothy: Right. Monica: And it's in the realm of what I call sometimes, like, pretending not to know Dorothy: what will, and I call that chosen. Monica: Yes. Dorothy: You know, when we choose to be ignorant, we intentionally choose to be ignorant. Don't tell me, I don't want to know. I don't want to see, I don't want to hear it. Don't don't let me know about this. I don't want to, I don't want to know it because if I know it, I will have to make changes in my life. So please don't tell me anything that would make me change how I'm doing in my life. Even though I may not like my life. I know it I'm in it. I'm comfortable with this more so as like the devil I know is better than the general. I, what if there's no devil out there? What if you drop the illusions and you really got to be free? And be you. Monica: It's true. And what you're kind of speaking to is the risk of transformation. Dorothy: Yes. The risk of transformation. And to me, it's the risk of freedom to me. Transformation is about freedom. Yeah. Monica: It's sure is it's this illusion that we live in, where this quote unquote is life. You know where this is, the illusion of this is just the way it is. There's a cynicism Dorothy: About a limited belief system immediately. This is the way it is now. This is the way it is, because this is what we chose to create. What if we created something dramatically different? Yes, we've heard in the past few days, so many people say if only there was something we could do to prevent 18 year olds running around with AK fifteens, if only there was something we could do is if, excuse me, who told you, why do you need to believe? There's nothing we can do. Yeah, we could change that. Do we want to change? That is the question to this. I powerless gives me permission to stay stuck. I'm powerless, and there's nothing really, it gives you permission not to invest, not to grow, not to change and to play victim. That's an option. Victim is always a mindset and we can change that we sure can. Monica: And I know that your passion is working with women in this way. Not only in the realm of transformation, but specifically women who are in transition. Right. That seems to be, it's almost like the transition I always see as kind of the catalyst, like the disruptor to the illusion. Dorothy: It is. And, um, I'm actually at what, what timing of this, I'm starting a program on June 12th. It's going to be for 12 women solely and is for women in transition is a year long program of group work, one-on-one work. And some in-person who starts with a one day together and ends with one day together. And it's mostly on zoom and it's for women in transition, and it is a powerful and tested program. Cause they'll have one-on-ones with me and they'll be doing, working with groups and you know how, when we come together as women, we can support, if we can create a community that supports massive growth, and I'm doing that simply because of this and supporting women in transition. One of my amazing women who was the executive director of my companies, one lived overseas for a long period of time. Um, recently went through a divorce and is having a very difficult time. She was married 24 years and she has little ones, you know, preschool or in a, in an elementary school and is having a difficult time. And how does she. Stay who she is a 50 year old one while also being a mother philosophy, a newly divorced woman after 24 years of how do you do this alone. All right. But also how do I do a career? How do I do parenting? How do I, how do I, how do I, and we can go into discouragement. We can go into overwhelm, we can go into confusion. We can go into illusions of powerlessness. How do you do transition? And the fact is, and so she called and said, could you do something because working with you has always transformed. Sure I will do this because in working with, with women and because men and women do respond differently to life stimuli, you know, I work with men as well as women, but they respond differently. So the programs are different. But when you work with women, what happens in transition is with all of us when you're transitioning the past doesn't fit anymore. So you're not in the past. You may want to be holding the past and grieving the past, but it does exist for you, whether that's a divorce, whether it's a job loss, whether it's you've moved when upstage or not the city, you're no longer a part of that pass, but you're also not a part of the future yet. So you're in this, this free-fall place that gives you absolute permission and absolute freedom to define what do I want the rest of my life to look like? Who do I want to be as I begin the rest of my life. And that makes the transitionary period, a conscious decision of transformation, which is a dramatically different experience than making transition a terrifying, overwhelming groundless place of survival. So that transitionary period for me is where all of the attachments, all of the energetic or all of the attachments to the past are either cut or chain. And you're the one who defines what that looks like going forward. So to me, transition is a period of absolute freedom for transformation, with no expectations on you, unless you put them there and love that others can try to dump it on you, but you don't have to take a single one of their expectations where you're going in your life. It's absolutely your choice. Monica: Yes, it absolutely is. And through that lens, disruption is such an ally. Dorothy: Absolutely an ally, because some of those transitions we enter, we choose some of them. We don't choose willingly if you will. I mean, what a transition, I was divorced after 15 years when a kindergarten and a fourth grader, it wasn't my vision. My vision was lifetime marriage. Right. So I didn't say gee, I think I divorced sounds like a good idea, you know, but we can reach a place where we know. The only healthy thing for everybody involved is to separate. And so it's chosen, but it was not necessarily wanted, but shows. And what ends up happening is you can spend your entire life and I've seen several sadly do this enraged or feeling victimized by a former partner. I've seen women stay in regret and fear and terror of being alone for their entire lives. And I've also seen women go through that for about 48 hours and then oughta sort of say, okay, I've got to go forward. What do I do? And reach out. Cause we can try to do this alone. But as you know, the illusion of self-sufficiency is an illusion independent. Is what we're all going to self-sufficiency is an illusion. So when we choose to reach out and be supported going through that, we have somebody help us not carry us and help us stand up and begin to claim. Monica: I love this two things. One is on your Facebook page was a meme that said healing also means taking an honest look at the role you play in your own suffering. Dorothy: Absolutely. Oh, thank you for picking that up. Absolutely. Monica: And I also picked this up because it just kind of made me laugh, which is on your page, there was a testimonial that said you held my heart while kicking my ass Dorothy: that I do. Monica: And I was like, you know what? Like that is the kind of coach that I need. Right. It's like, That coach that will hold my heart and kick my ass. Dorothy: Yes. Monica: And sometimes we really need that because we, we can't see our own bullshit sometimes, Dorothy: Truly. That's what it is. That is exactly what it is. And those two things, it's amazing. Those are the two boats you pulled. But my people that I work with, if I choose to work with you, it's always because it's, I can love you unconditionally. I can just be there with you. And you're capable of receiving that love so that we can support the transformational process. You know, I'm not going to come in and force you to do something. And those clients who are waiting for their coach to force them to do something, to force them to, I'm not there to do that if you want it. And you're in resistance, I have no problem. But you want, it is what I'm hearing. I will help you come along and that other, which is why, you know, you're never judged for a single second. You are absolutely accepted for where you are and who you are. And that's the safety of holding your heart. All right. But then kicking your little ass is really about our suffering that nobody knows the troubles I've seen. Oh, get over your damn self. Don't be a damn self. Nobody knows. In one sense, he has, nobody knows the job as you've seen, but sweetie, everybody has had him that's right. Everybody has had them. They've experienced them their own way. And when I say that, we need to look at the ownership of perpetuating our own pain, perpetuating our own story. You know, you can spend the next 86 years complaining about the fact that your mother never bought you that birthday present. All right. And feeling the rejection and the abandonment of that. And that gives you permission. To be a victim. That's right, right. Monica: That's right. Dorothy: Or you can say my mom wasn't perfect. And she may not have been what the world would consider a good mom at all. Or she may have been a great mom who was human. You know, I don't know which it's irrelevant, but the fact is you didn't get that present, but here you are today. How do you lived with mommy for 17, 18 years? You know, 43. Guess what? You lived away from mommy longer than you lived with her. So if you are still in that pain, let's look at why you're holding onto it, Monica: Right? Because there's a payoff, Dorothy: There's a payoff. Always. Your parents told you not to eat before dinner. How many of us have had appetizers? All right. Uh, your parents told you not to talk straight. Most of us in business talk to strangers every single day. So why is it that we threw out some of the messages they gave us? Yeah. And we kept others. We kept the others because it supports an identity. We want to hold onto it truly, that's it. And that's the perpetuating, our suffering. Why are you doing that? Why are you continuously being not smart enough? Not powerful enough, not good enough. Not whatever. All right. Or I was fired from a job. It means I can never hold a position really, uh, quit that have been the wrong position for you or the wrong company, the right position. But the wrong company let's look at that. Let's assess it so that you can learn from it always learned from. And now, how can we help you go forward with a better suited company or a better position, or you can stay and hold on to that for the rest of your life. It's a choice. Monica: I often look at this lately in the realm of storytelling, because it's kind of like the unconscious story we've been living in. And it's like disrupting that story and understanding our power to create a new story and live a new story. And of course, I think stories can be incredibly powerful and, and, and we, and we choose these stories. And so it, it can become a really interesting conversation. I want to go back to something you said. Which is that men and women respond differently to stimulus. Right. And I wanted to get curious about that because I agree. And I'm wondering without assuming though, like what, how do you see that play out Dorothy: if there's a hundred different examples that, which one do I pick? All right. Something happens. We come home, the front door has been broken in. All right. My first thought is to go into fear and then we go into wary about what's happened. Then we go into grief. We go into all of these emotional places. Your male partner is going to say crap first. They want to check, make sure nobody's still in there. Then they will go into anger. If not re. Then they will take action and make things happen. And if you follow them in the tendency, now these are generalizations. Okay. Make sure you remember that, then you will follow him in. And then it starts looking at what was taken. Then there's the grieving. Then there's the fear. Then there's the organization, the placement. And we're looking at all kinds of other things and they're into, what am I, what am I going to do? Why am I going to make went away? What do I, you know, it's very different. Not that they don't have an emotional response, but they react differently. And once the shock has settled again for each of you. And everybody's okay, thank God then it's okay. What do we do next? Monica: Right. Dorothy: What do we do next? And women in my experience will tend to go one way and men will go to another. They're always looking again at the pragmatic steps that we take. She's looking at the much bigger picture of how we're going to handle this, and neither one is right or wrong. They're just different for somebody tells you there's a new job. There's a new job availability. You want to check to make sure that you have 120% of the qualifications needed. He wants to make sure he has 60% of the qualifications needed figuring out he is going to learn on the job, the rest of what he needs to know. And so he's going to apply for a job that looks terrific. Most women won't until they have developed all the necessary skills that that job asks for when the fact is I don't care what the job is. You don't know everything, even if it's a new DJ job and you've been deejaying for 20 years at the station, you're going into a new station. You may have some of the pragmatic stem, but how are you going to do it in that station? What's the dynamics of that stations. What's the procedures or protocols of that station. You don't know, and you're not going to know until you get the job Monica: And Dr. Dorothy, do you think that that is nature or nurture? Dorothy: I think that it's a lot of the issue with that is a lot of nurture. I think there's a piece of that dispatcher, but I think the vast majority of those hesitancies is nurture. Okay. Yeah. And how we are developed, how we're taught to see ourselves, but also how we're taught to be seen Monica: Part of the illusion and that, you know, I often kind of talk about with women is disrupting this illusion of unworthiness. Dorothy: Right. Monica: And so I want to, I feel like there's a lot here that I want to kind of dive into, but first I want my listeners to hear a little bit more. About your background and how you grew up. Dorothy: Oh, goodness. Yeah. That's certainly, if you want to go there and willing to go there then, Monica: well, I love going there because to me that story is so powerful and how you be in the world now is you walk your talk and yes, nobody can say that you haven't experienced your share of trauma. And I think trauma for women is a huge part of what keeps us kind of stuck in this. Trance of unworthiness. Dorothy: I would say our attachment to the trauma. Monica: Yes. Okay, good. Dorothy: And our attachment to the trauma, keeps us there and our belief that the trauma has made us, it's not even, um, unqualified it's unworthy. Okay. So there's two pieces that go into that. And I would say to you that from my childhood, I was raised in an orphanage. Initially. I was the product of an affair. So I was raised in an orphanage from the moment of birth, and then later adopted by my birth mother and her third, the third man in her life and the second marriage for her. And when he brought me home, She lived with her mother and my dad and an older brother and a younger sister. And I was at that point, if it would be the middle child, but I was brought home, but my mom and grandmother did not want any legitimate child living in a good Catholic home in the housing projects in Southie. So my dad would get me up at five 30 in the morning and put me in, a sunset or snowsuit, depending on the season and put me outside in a playpen and leaving the actual nine 30 at night. When my grandmother went to bed, come out and get me and bring me in and give me dinner. And for me to get me out again in the morning. So for three years, she never saw in a legitimate child in her home. And when I was six, she fell down, broke. Her hip was placed in a nursing home. And then I could live there, moved in and realized that that was an extremely violent. He had immense Irish pride, the people in south bay, Immensly proud of their Irish heritage, more Irish than the Irish and the old country. You know, that my dad would say, but in any event, When I moved in and saw that they are pride was bright, which is why he wanted me out of the orphanage because no Irish child deserves to be in an orphanage, but simultaneously he was a violent, very violent, aggressive man where we were beaten up or whipped daily. And I moved into that place and I made it out at 17 and I always did great at school. I was great at academics. I did great in school and wanted to go to college, but he didn't believe in educating girls. And in the housing projects, you don't have a lot of money. And there were three boys that he thought she'd been to college before any of the girls did. So that money was allocated for the boys. I wasn't allowed. So I applied to nursing school and discovered that I went to an unaccredited inner city high school. I know nursing school in the country would accept me either. So there was no way out. So my mom said just marry Michael. I had a boy. I was madly in love with at 17 and just married Michael. And until you get pregnant work as a waitress until you get pregnant and then stay. And getting married to Michael was an okay idea because he was a great, he really is a great guy. He still is to this day, a really great guy, but I wanted more and I couldn't get out college nursing school. Nothing was going to get me out until I found out some of the nuns actually do social work and social workers that I've wanted to do. And so I applied to several communities and realized the Catholic church does not allow illegitmate children in the convent. Monica: No , I didn't, I didn't know that part. Dorothy: Yeah. So I wasn't allowed to become a Catholic nun in the traditional ways. And so one of my teachers in high school said, are you going to be marrying Michael after graduation? Because in Southie at that time, you were an educated women. If you had a high school diploma. And so I was educated and I said, I guess, cause I can't, I can't get out, you know, My children, I want it to go in the convent. And she said, why you spend most of your days in detention? I would think you would want to have nothing to do with us. I was a good girl. I just talked a lot of past notes. This is really the problem. It was harmless, primes and blocking too much line. Monica: She would simply apply herself as she does to her social life, to her studies. She is an angel actually. Dorothy: And the intention with all the curtains pulled out in a pitch black room, while you sit there with your hands for us, and sister is up front with their rosary beads, clicking the desk. Would there be so on a, for an hour while you sit in the black room and do detention, but in any event? So I said, yeah, but in spite of all that I can't send nuns to detention. You can. That's another story. But yes, we can be called to mother superior's office once or a few more times than that way. Life is an adventure. So in any event, um, my junior teacher then wrote to over a thousand communities around the globe and there was one in Quebec that was under a Bishop, not the Pope. And he said, we'd never had an illegitimate child, but we have the cresh, which was a huge home. They had 2000 babies from that were there in an orphanage, unwed mothers and left 2000 babies there. And he said, we could take the risk you know, on an, on an illegitimate child. And those French in his section Mariah's is so different than the rest of the world. So they just put back was French Canadian. So they let me enter that community. And they were sending me to the missions. I was so excited because I was going to go to Missoula land, where we had missions and they sent me to Maine because is filled with French Canadians. And so that was the American missions. And so I went to the mother house, which was in Sacco, which was North of Biddeford to town next to Biddeford and Southern Maine. And so I went there and as your religious life and mother superior at one point said, sister, I'm going to send you to St. Francis college, which was an all male. But you were a male female, or that just didn't. I was an Oreo, they just, I was sister James Murray. So I would say, well, remember the man's name. So I kind of qualify for all of it. And so I said, mom and sister, they won't let me in it. She said, yes, sister, if I send you, well, when you have a nun with her hands and her sweets and those old black habits, they exude authority. And, um, yeah, I went and once you have a BA, nobody cares where you went to high school. And so the rest masters and PhDs is just lots of money and lots of times. And that's the end of the story. So I was in religious life, became a social worker and, and I was blessed beyond words. I discovered a self. I never knew. I really, I wantingly learned the huge distinction between spirituality and religion, monovision religious life and realized I to be a good nun, oftentimes meant to me. I couldn't be a good Christian and I needed to make my choice. I went back to south and it didn't didn't I had nothing in common. Very few friends was still there and those that were in the projects on welfare. And so I decided to see the world and I joined international airlines, became an airline stewardess and flew a million miles. So it's been, it's been a journey, you know, and, and I've loved. I mean, I've been cultural shock has been a way of life. Transition has certainly been a way of life transitioning from one element of my life, to the next, to the next to the next. And anyway, eventually got married, moved to Connecticut and had two children was divorced when they were in kindergarten and fourth grade and raised them alone. I went back and got my master's became when I was divorced, I was going to need to support my babies. And so I got a job as a therapist and within three months, I would say 42 patients a week. And that lasted over 20 years and eventually about three years in. So I, that, there's an amazing. Coincidence initially, but then realized it's not a good sit. Well with certain personalities, with presenting a particular diseases, you know, I would ask for their medical health as well as their psychological history and discover that older, those, they had fibromyalgia had a certain personality. All those, they have breast cancer, have a certain personality. And when I asked a friends with who MDs have you noticed? And they said, no, that's a coincidence. And I said, no, but I can predict it's not a coincidence anymore. This, this, um, reliability, this some scientific facts here. So I became certified in nine modalities of integrative healthcare and brought a massage table into my office and started doing energy work. Five of the modalities. I studies were eastern medicine, started doing energy work. And what ended up happening is they. People on my waiting list, knew each other and said, Hey, why don't you teach us what, you know, while we're waiting to work with you? Because I was blessed with a six month waiting list, about three months into practice, I started as little six week program, which became a one-year program. Adobe declined to graduate, became a two year program, eventually became a four year program. And for 19 years I had another company. I founded the Institute of healing, arts and sciences, where I taught physicians, nurses, OTs, PTs, and some nonmedical people about energy medicine, a method of energy medicine. I created looking at the psychological and spiritual causes of physical disease and disorders. And that ended up becoming the title of my dissertation. And I went back to get my PhD. So it's been a wonderful journey. I had my business going and I had my practice going and I was still trying to go to soccer games, you know, and do different things that mom's doing when my second left Cornell, I drove home sobbing because I knew once they go to college, You'll never be mommy again, you know, you're a mom, but you never, mommy, you know, they don't sit on your lap anymore. They don't lean against you anymore. You know, it's a different relationship and pulled into this huge house. I owned a mountain road west Hartford and said, wow, like a good Irish girl. As soon as I get out of that car for that long drive from Cornell, like what a glass of red wine, just when I was drinking that wine and just looking, looking around the house and thinking I'm not happy, this house is huge and empty. And I realized now I'm assignments, which hasn't happened in 21 years. You know, I'm not really happy here. And I knew that if I stayed on happy, think container, this being the so-called success, I would develop cancer or some other disorder. And for my own health, emotionally, spiritually, and physically, I needed a dramatic change. So I picked up the phone called and got a one-way ticket to my way, then the. I hung up that phone called an agent, put my house, the market let my office now I'm leaving the country. It's three weeks and moving to Anguila and I lived in the British west Indies for 10 years, traveling back to America every two months to teach and to speak and to do things Wayne Dyer. And I had the same agent over here on the east coast. And so she would book us together and we'd do some speaking engagements. Eventually I decided, uh, everything changed. The culture changed and I moved back to America. I was asked to come, they coach you have the advisory board of on the grant that NG, that UCONN received and oversight and Asian medicine research across the country, ended up closing my businesses and moving down to the shoreline, back to the water here I am. And I recognized as I opened up a part-time practice, that many of the people were coming to see me didn't need therapy, what they needed. With how to be effective leaders. You know, they were thinking there was something wrong with them and there wasn't, they needed help learning how to effectively lead. And by that point in time, I had founded four companies were so successful. My students are doing medical internships and hospitals asked about giving me money to do research with diseases. So I opened up a nonprofit and, you know, life just goes, you know, you do your life. And when you do spirit leads you, and for every dream you have, you're not just asked to achieve that dream. You need to become the woman who can sustain that dream. And so what I saw was these women were going for leadership positions and getting them, but they had no role models in how to be a leader. All they knew were the men around them. And as the coach, I could teach them. How to be effective leaders, they didn't need therapy, they needed a business coaching. So I went and studied with a woman who developed expanded Tony Robbins program, who now is on, around not marina Del Rey in California and for a year and became certified as a leadership coach and transformation. And that's what I've been doing 15 years is supporting women and looking in men, but looking at. What does effective leadership look like? What is your leadership style? There are leaders who are thought leaders. They are catalysts, they are creators. They come up with amazing, amazing ideas, no skill implementation would amazing ideas. And every company needs somebody like that. They can lead the company and where it's going. You have team leaders. We need folks with team, even if you're a solopreneur and you've got VA's, what's the culture of your company? What type of VA's do you need? Pragmatically? What skill sets do you need them to do? But also you need them to have your value system. If they're going to help with your branding and put it out there, they need to understand. Your culture, your brand, your value system, because that's what you're bringing to the world. And then there were the nurturer is those folks who don't ever want to be the leader who was up front, but once you have the back of a leader and they are invaluable. Monica: Yeah. I love that. You said that about these different types of leadership, because I wondered do you think every one has an inner leader? Dorothy: Every one of us, every single one of us has called to leadership, whether it is leadership over our own lives, leadership of our homes, our family leadership in our own businesses or leadership in corporate leadership, in a nonprofit, it doesn't matter. None of us are called to passively walk through this journey. We are all called to leadership in some capacity, which means every one of us, which are, these are the subjects. My life I've lived at this. These are the subjects I love to talk about. And I love my life. I've been blessed beyond words but effective leaders. Truly is knowing what are my natural skills, what are the ways in which I can best have impact, have influence and have profit something many women don't want to talk about? How can I, as a leader in whatever way that I choose to lead, have impact, influence, and profit and help make this world a better place. And I make the world a better place by me becoming more and more me. I haven't practiced religion in 30 years, but I'm a immensly spiritual, and I truly believe all of us are embodied souls or embodied essence, whatever word you're comfortable with and with that embodied. So the more I can radiate the essence of who I am and somebody is going to walk away from a meeting with me, having experienced me, not just having learned from me. And that's every one of us people walk away with an experience of. They don't just know facts about you. The facts are irrelevant because it was truly, the gift is how they've transformed you, who they've supported you in becoming and how you've utilized the facts of your life to become the person you choose to be. Monica: Yes. Dorothy: So that leadership that every one of us has is if we can own the style of leadership and not judge ourselves, I'm only a catalyst or I'm only a team leader. I don't come up with creative ideas. You don't need creative ideas. Let somebody else do that. You create the team that has the ability to implement, but that catalyst came up with that's invaluable because nobody is walking this world alone. We're all walking a community, small community, big community, we're all in community. All right. And. I don't have any of that, but I love to have one person. I have their back and I'll make them shine. Great accomp. That company leader needs somebody to help make them shine. You need somebody. I have a VA that does all of my social media. I'm not, I don't post a thing on Pinterest and on Instagram. And any of those, she does all of that. I know they exist. That's the end of my story. Right? Monica: That's right. It's like, Dorothy: We need those people. We need those people. Right? So she's, she's so invaluable to me. She does all of that. And that is not her lack of ambition. No, she gets it all. Phasing the ambition. She is exquisite at what she does. And then you have that, that visionary leader, that one who takes the, create the candidate. They have a team behind them. They have somebody who's got their back. They now have the ability to bring this business out into the world. Yes. Or bring that family, a mother with a special needs child. She now has the ability because of all the experiences of things she's got to bring her child's needs out into the world to make a change in that family, to make a change in that child's life. If you're in business to make a, you know, they have the ability to bring that company out there and present it in the best light. And you have the organizational leader who is that person put me in a dark room. I don't even need a window. You develop all the programs. I'm going to be in heaven because I'm going to do the procedures and protocols. I love creating procedures and protocols. I love doing accounting or, or whatever it may be. They are in heaven doing all of that. God bless their lovely souls. They're in heaven doing all of that. They could care less. If they ever saw another person, they want to deal with the numbers they want to do at the pragmatic. We need all of that. So when we can. Um, this is the kind of leader I am. I'm not a inept because I can't do this, this and this. No, you're not inept, which is what many women pick into all, as somebody said, I was inept. I must be because I can't do this. No, sweetheart, you can't do that. Cause that's not your vein. You're over, you Monica: You have your own unique expression of leadership and it's finding it. It's figuring out what it is. Dorothy: Right. I created a leadership self-assessment tool to support. It's free of charge on my website, go to the front page of my website. It'll say self-assessment leadership. You'll find out what kind of leader you are and luxuriate in that. That is not a weakness. It is a strength and honor who you are, not who you've been told you were supposed to be. Monica: I picked up on something also that you were saying that. I want to check in with you about it was that moment that you poured yourself a glass of wine you pulled in, you know, you had pulled into your driveway after dropping, dropping off your child at Cornell, where you had the revelation. I'm not happy. Right? And you've said, if I stay here like this, I'm going to get sick. I'm going to get cancer or something else. And so what I made up about that was that stagnancy equals disease. It does interesting. Dorothy: Think about a pond in your backyard. That's stagnant pond in your backyard. It's going to become infested. If this is stream running through it, it stays active and alive and healthy water. Monica: Now you can be doing, doing, doing, but the key is you're not growing and you're not aligned with who you really are. Dorothy: Right when we get so busy and I have women who call and men who call me and say, I was on a call with a man yesterday, who will say to me, I am so damn busy. I don't have a moment to think. And my first question is, so tell me where you get your joy. Oh God, it's been a while. You know, I'm, I'm pushing so hard all week. I just Monica: danger zone right there, danger zone. Dorothy: And that's, that was my Saturday without peace your mind, you and your body and your soul can not recover. So there's two ways to approach this. You run like a bat out of Haiti's all week, and then you collapse on the weekends and you're replenish and you're relaxed, and you take care of yourself to get ready, to get up and rush again. Okay. It's better than doing seven days a week. However, What if you came from your heart and your soul, what if you were doing a job that fed you, you could be highly productive. You could even work eight, nine hours a day at it, 10 hours a day at it, but it's feeding you. You're doing it. And you feel so good about who you are. So good about what you're doing, that it isn't to be healthy. You have to be lackadaisical. No, we focus. Be clear on where you're going. We need to have a vision. We need to have a dream without a purpose in life. What are you doing? You're existing. We need to have a purpose in being in that, that dream called that our soul is calling us to who we're meant to be follow that dream. So be clear about it, to find about what it is and how you're going to get there, who you're going to become so you can live it. So there's movement there. So every step of the way you feel excitement, you feel joy. You feel the company. No, because you reached it, but because you're in the process, getting there, there's an excitement in this joy, there's an alive ness, right? That is what keeps you healthy. Yes. Which is why I, and I'm working with my clients, mindfulness taking time, every, whether it's meditation or mindfulness practice or whatever it may be for you taking time every morning, when you wake up to stop, who am I today? How do I feel? Did I wake up feeling depressed? Did I wake up feeling stressed? Did I wake up excited? Did I wake up scared and excited about something that's happening today? Right. Yeah. Monica: So Dorothy and I chose from the sacred rebels guidebook. And of course the card that we chose was seeing the true you and what I hear you really talking about. Right now at, which was so reflected, kind of in this teaching. But in this card that we chose was that this there's this eternal essence, this a liveliness inside of us. And if we're doing this J O B, this way of dying is what I call it. You're not earning a living, you're earning a die, you're earning a dying. It's like, if it's slowly killing you, it's like, that's what we pretend not to know. Right. We pretend not to know that that daily grind isn't killing us. And if it's a grind and you catch yourself saying things like sarcastically, oh, I'm living the dream. It may be time for you to take a look, Dorothy: Because that is where disease comes from. Disease comes from. And I say this, and it's a blanket statement. Disease comes from the disconnection from self. There is a dis ease in us. And what ends up happening is that we, we then end up living in stress. Stress impacts the immune system. When the immune system is weakened, we are vulnerable to anything and everything. When the immune system becomes very weak, it turns to the adrenals and the adrenals. When we are in that fight or flight, if I don't get this project done, I'm going to lose my job. If I don't get this done with lose the house. If I don't get done, there's always a crisis ready to unfold if we don't get this done. And so there's this survival approach to the journey and the adrenals are meant to be used in a crisis only, not as a lifestyle and in the Western world, especially here in America, there is a belief system that productivities. Is the only grading system may need. And if I'm not productive, if I don't get this accomplished, this accomplished, and this accomplished, I'm going to fail. And if I fail that could be fired. If I'm failed, I could deal with the house of, if I fail that could lose my marriage. If I fail, if I fail. And so that ext sets us up. So when we look at the disease rates in this country, let's look at the fear rates. Let's look at the stress rate because it will impact you enormously. Monica: And when it comes to women, this is where I think the good girl and letting the good girl die. Dorothy: Right. My last book. Yeah. Monica: Well, and I'm making this connection because I really talk a lot about this curse perfectionism, because you know, I'm still recovering and again, The reason that I call it, the revelation project is often so many of these things are hiding in plain sight, meaning that we can tend to stay in situations that are not feeding us, that are not bringing us life because to dissent or to reject or to, you know, we have this tendency to continue to be pretty pleasing and polite in such a way that like we hold, we hold ourselves hostage in these situations that are terrorizing us. And so there's a way that like, when we're always being the good girl, we don't do things that disrupt and we need to disrupt things. Dorothy: God, we need to, yeah. We need to disrupt women. Women in leadership tend to lead from their heart. And there, soul Monica: That's why we need them so desperately. Dorothy: Absolutely. That doesn't from moment mean they don't also lead with logic and pragmatic skills. That's right. And the ability to make things happen, it's almost as if we've created a world in which you lead with your head in logic, or you leave with the soft skills of your heart and your soul and delicacy. What if you brought compassion and kindness and thoughtfulness into powerful, effective leaders that transform companies that transform individuals that transform their employees that are constantly transforming themselves to be better and better and more and more effective at leadership. So that they stay in alignment with the culture of the company. When they create a culture in that company, then they stay in alignment with it and everything gets transformed and improved, and they do it in alignment with all of the people, because they are in a place of compassionate kindness, but also expecting compassionate kindness. Doesn't mean I'm going to carry everybody who doesn't want to do anything. Compassionate. Kindness means if this job isn't not making you a better you, this is the wrong place for you. So let me help you either find a new position in my company or help you leave my company to find a place that works best for you. Because if this isn't bringing out the best in calling you to grow continuously, it's not where you belong. That's coming from compassion so different from you. Fail there out. See ya. Right. Whoa. But I was succeeded at 40 things. They didn't. The Dodgers. So they're confused as to why they've been fired. Cause I failed at one, but the things they succeeded at, they were doing enough survival place. Finally, they had nothing left and a project failed. They're not where they belong. Not because the project failed. Any, anybody can have a project fail, but because this isn't feeding them, this is draining them. This is making them ill. They're not in the right place for them, not the wrong place. Here we go. Good, bad blame, guilt. Get over on that stuff. How do we best support our people becoming their best selves truly. And if we women are in charge and they create that culture, but we have men that are very willing to do that too. It's just, thank God just women do it, which is why I believe men and women together create an amazing organization. Monica: That's right. Dorothy: And we know that statistically when we have not one token, but when we have a sufficient number of women. on the board and alignment with a sufficient number of men. We have the strengths of both that really allow things to fly. When we respect each other's strengths, just as we respect each other style of leadership. When we can respect that we have an amazing ability to transplants companies, countries, and anything else we need transformed families, transform ourselves. We can do that amazingly. When we, as women bring out our yet in our young women in the state of being, and the action is the yang, the masculine side of us, it's wonderful to have great theories, but if all we're going to do is have theories, it becomes a waste to me. It's like education. And I say this because I'm overly educated, but education is a waste. If it doesn't create action that creates transforming. So women's theory is a wonderful, that's the end, that's the heart, that's the loving, but if they don't actualize their yang, their masculine side and do something with it, they've wasted it. Monica: Well, which brings me to one of my final questions today, Dr. Dorothy, which is like, what in the kind of jokingly call this. But, but I also see a lot of truth to it. It's just that the word is loaded. I call this time the apocalypse. And yet, if you look at the origin of that word, it means to reveal. And, and I think that we're in a time of great revelation. Like we're in a time right now where I believe that we're being invited at no time, other in human history to have an involute mission at the same time, we're having an evolution, which gives us an opportunity to. Have a collective change, a massive kind of transition where I think what I'm seeing in experience is a huge disruption in many different ways, happening all over the world. And people it's like really waking people up to their lives to, I often say I almost had to lose my life to choose my life. And I feel like it's that kind of a situation where people are getting very intentional about what matters to them, because the times are calling us to wake up. And I'm wondering, because I'm hearing this genuine love and a liveliness that you have for women for supporting women. Right. And I'm hearing that you support and love working with men too. Dorothy: Oh yeahit feeds me yeah. Monica: So I'm wondering, what is your vision for women as we, like, what do you see in terms of the potential of women? If they were listening to you right now and willing to be disruptive, what would be, what would be some words that you might have for them? Dorothy: What a wonderful question. What a wonderful, wonderful question. What I would see is women beginning to let go of their story. Story is because those stories are 90% of the time limiting and destructive. If women were able to let go of the stories and own the strength, they possess the leadership, they possess the skill sets they possess. And from that place of falling in love with themselves, be open to developing whatever skills they need in whatever industry they choose to walk in, whatever field, maybe it's politics, maybe it's teaching. It doesn't matter what it is, develop the skills you need and recognizing if this is what your dream is calling you to you already innately, have everything maybe need to be there. You may need to develop pragmatic skills, develop them. That's not a personal act. That's a skill lab. Develop the skills you need to do this or that. You want to be a pilot. Learn how to fly. If you want to be a pilot, that's something into this column. Just learn how to do that. Take the classes, do what you need, make that happen. Monica: And if you're in, if you're in a story of like, well, I'm such and such an age, or I'm, it's too late, it's like, that is just a story we Dorothy: Get rid of the story. That's a story. Anything that limits you is a story. Monica: Yes. Dorothy: All right. Get, let the story go. And so as we let go of the stories, as we develop the skills we need and whatever it is, we choose to do whatever we're called to do here, which is really big because we have a calling every one of us. What do we call to when we follow that? I believe we have the ability to bring us out of a reactionary aggressive mode throughout the world and bring us way back into a responsive, compassionate, powerful leadership that causes us to create change through the use of community. And not an exclusive community and inclusive community because women tend to nurture. They don't, their tendency is not to just nurture these men. That's what we're doing. We're in woundedness. And we can do our own healing work with our own woundedness and heal those. We end up being simply compassionate and inclusive to all the community. So I believe women have the ability to bring that compassionate leadership through the use of community, through calling out the best of people, the most embracive and inclusive, recognizing the good in all of us so that we become the leaders who unify this planet, recognizing as well, the power of mother earth that we come and bring in the inclusivity and the nurturance in the compassion that's needed to transform this planet. We don't tend to come from a place of needing to work. We can do competition. That can be fun, but that's not our primary drive. Right. That can be a fun thing. If that's where you are, you love to compete in racing or compete in sports or whatever the thing is, you love to compete in, enjoy yourself, but that's not what we use. That's like this fun side of thing. That's not what you were say, calls us forward. So I think we do have my answer, I guess simply point is we have the ability to compassionately create a world community that is based on spirit that is based on the soft skills with highly developed, productive skills of pragmatic application. Monica: I love that. I love that so much. It's such a beautiful vision to end our conversation with, and it's nothing more. Beautiful or fulfilling. When you think about what it is to create that kind of unified world community, that by women awakening to their own power, their own enoughness their own worthiness that they step into their flavor, their essence of leadership, and do their part. Each of us doing our part in our own way to create that world community that. Would be what would solve most, if not all of the world problems, Dorothy: I actually belive all of them, all of them could be solved. And I'm certainly not saying they all could be solved within three months or three years or whatever, but developing a mindset, looking at mindset, using emotional intelligence, that what, what sets people off and how can we best support them and understanding their reactions versus their responses. And how can we then support going forward? The one world community have your country love your country, have your national pride, but notice that each country has a different gift. I mean, I've been blessed to travel to many of them. Each country has its own culture. When that culture supports all of the people in that country. I think of what we would do with every country supported every person who lived there. Right. And then we, as an, as a world supported each other, we'd be sharing our gifts with each other and we would all be winning. If winning is important, we would all come out ahead. We would all become the best of we could be. And yes, as some will say, oh, she's such an idealist. You're right. But without an idea, what are we working towards? That's right. We have an idea. We have a vision, we have a dream. And our journey is about walking towards that. Not expecting it to be actualized in my lifetime, but in if my lifetime I can support the process of us going forward, I can support enough limit going forward. And if I'm one of millions of other women leaders, Who are out here with a similar message. We can have a massive impact. Any one of us can have a massive impact, but if many of us are out here with the same message of inclusivity, the same message of compassion and powerful leadership for transformation, with the unnecessary, pragmatic skills to do what needs to be done, there's no limit, there is no limit. And I, and I truly, truly believe that. I also believe we've never walked one moment of this life alone. Monica: That's right. One distinction that I also hear in what you're saying, Dr. Dorothy, that I love so much. It's like, it's not about women taking a position because when we take a position, it creates its opposition and that's not what we need. What we need to be doing as women is taking a stand that's value-based, that's, that's grounded in a vision for what is possible. And that's what a stand is. And as women come together in a stand for what is possible for the world, that is when things will change. Dorothy: Right? Right. And we're not making enemies. There's not the good guys and the bad guys, the Republicans and the Democrats and the independence and the non-affiliated with God. All of that. None of that. It's, we're all in this together. We have slightly different biases. Welcome to your value systems. As long as it includes inclusiveness and community, leave your value. You want to have pasta every night, have a ball for yourself, go wild. You know, do you want to go to college? You want to go into the trades, go go. There's no right way to live your life, your wrong way in those contexts, go to where you're called. The problem only comes when you pick the one right way. And one of those a hundred part ways. Monica: And there is, you know, yeah, Dorothy: I believe so. Monica: Well, I've loved this conversation truly. It's just been so life giving and I just, I also want to invite our listeners to know more about where they can, you know, just hear more about you, perhaps they want to enroll in your upcoming program. Dorothy: I would love it. Like to send them, Here we go. What I'm going to do for this is I would put in your chat. They, um, the link to my upcoming program. No, there's only room for 12 women. Okay. It's going to be a small intimate package. Monica: And if we don't get the episode out in time, I'm imagining that getting on your mailing list, Dorothy: we'll do it. If they got on my mailing list, it's asked Dr. Dorothy.com. Is my website. Awesome moment. You hook up to that self assessment leadership tool. You'll be put on my mailing list and you'll start getting, I only send out one newsletter a week. It comes out on Sunday morning. That's it? You will not be getting 42 emails from me a week and thinking, oh my God, what have I done? One email and one newsletter that is inspirational. And that really is to support us being our best selves and always with the touch of. And humor and faith Monica: um, so good. Well thank you. And for our listeners, you know, we'll be sure I'll be sure to put all of Dr. Dorothy's links in the show notes, Dr. Dorothy, thank you for joining us today. It's been such a pleasure. It's been an honor, really, to talk to you today. I have loved getting to know you more deeply. Thank you for your work in the world. Dorothy: Goodness. You are such a delight in what a great interviewer into your work. My goodness. You as so good at what you do, girl. Monica: Yeah. Thank you. I received that. And I'm I'm uh, yes, it is something I've learned about myself that it seems to just be my form of leadership, speaking of, you know, and so it's really been something I've embraced and that I am loving doing so. Keep the guests coming my way. In fact, if I'm sure, you know, other brilliant women and men that I might love to interview at some point, Dorothy: oh, I do, I will be sending you some names because Ali, there's so many amazing people on this planet. There really are. Monica: It's amazing. And I, I do. I have, so I, my, and my husband edits and just a quick, you know, kind of little thing for me is like every conversation is like getting another gift, you know, where I'm just building on this foundation of understanding. And over time, I'm just like, it's been amazing how much I've grown, just through conversations with other people. Who've exposed me to so many different ideas and their revelations, which have just helped me to kind of always see this bigger picture. It's just been such a gift Dorothy: We. can, we can close with, if you will. What you just said, personifies, everything we talked about, what you said is I learned from everybody who comes on. The only reason you do that is because you don't have a belief that there's one right way of looking at things. And some of the people who come on who may not agree with you on everything around wrong, and you don't learn from them. You said, I learned from everybody. That means you weren't wide open to being exposed to a hundred different perspectives on a hundred different topics. And that willingness to be open as a willingness to be transformed. And that willingness and ability to continuously transform makes you so much better and better at what you do. And more and more expansive at who you are. That is the epitome of what we're talking about and congratulations. I mean, cause that's truly what we've been talking about is that that willingness to grow and be transformed, bring out our best sounds, recognize your story and get rid of it. I'm supposed to be perfect. Really? That's a story. Throw it away. You have, you've embodied everything we've talked about. Thank you so much for that. Monica: Thank you. And for our listeners until next time more to be revealed, we hope you enjoyed this episode. For more information, please visit us@jointherevelation.com and be sure to download our free gift, subscribe to our mailing list or leave us a review on iTunes. We thank you for your generous listening and as always more to be revealed.