136_Veronica === Monica: Welcome to The Revelation Project Podcast. I'm Monica Rogers, and this podcast is intended to disrupt the chance of unworthiness and to guide women, to remember and reveal the truth of who we are. We say that life is a revelation project and what gets revealed gets healed. Hello everyone. And welcome to another episode of The Revelation Project Podcast. Today. I'm with Veronica Wirth. Veronica's a shamonic practitioner business, visionary and intuitive. She's also a certified sourced leader, bestselling author and founder of ative ative and the Athena matrix on a spiritual journey. Since her youth, she experienced powerful awakenings through her twenties and thirties. In January of 2000, she began receiving channel guidance from her wise circle of guides in teachers kept private until a few years ago. Veronica now actively brings her mystical gifts forward to guide her work. Veronica brings insight into the future landscape of what a business and a brand can be at their highest level and what others can do to show up as soul led leaders and innovators in this new territory. Drawing on her varied experience from both the business and mystical worlds, Veronica blends, spiritual soul work, energy healing, and channeling with her revolutionary approach to creating and expressing fully aligned brands and businesses. Hi Veronica. Veronica: Hi. Monica's so wonderful to be with you today. Monica: I just love Veronica and Monica. I have many Veronicas in my life and it's so funny to me because when, especially when I say our names together and a lot of people growing up would call me Veronica or harmonic. And I was like, no, just Monica. Veronica: It's funny. And I got the same thing with Monica you did? And the harmonic thing. Yeah. It's like, Monica: Who have you ever met a harmonic? Come on now. Veronica: I know, I know, what are we gonna do? Monica: What are we gonna do? Oh, well, you know, I don't know. It, it also brings up the whole like pencil travesty. I was like, where are pencils with my name on it? Did you have the same thing or did you Veronica: yes. Always. Or the little, um, this little license plates that used to get at the tourist places or, Monica: Yeah. And like, I could never find my name, but you know, it was, it was, yeah. It's tragedy. I'm still getting over it still. I know still healing from that. anyway, this is so good. So how are you? Tell me where, where am I finding you in your life at this moment? Veronica: I'm doing great actually. Well, it's spring, I'm in new England. Uh, and so spring in new England is a big deal after a long winter. And, uh, so it's quite glorious. It's I'm in a good place. Monica: Yeah, it is. Today is a gorgeous day. I think I knew you were in new England, but then I forgot. So where in new England are you? Veronica: I'm in Vermont. Central vermont. Monica: Okay. All right. So I'm in Rhode Island and we have just a gorgeous last few days and it's been like, yes, spring is here, you know, like right. For real . Yeah, it just feels like once it hits a certain point, there is no going back. I'm gonna knock on something, but I'm just really, and now that we don't really have spring, it goes from win winter almost. Right. It's like a window, a tiny little window where we get to be like it's spring and, and then it's summer. Veronica: Yeah. Don't blink. , Monica: Don't blink. Don't blink. And it's new England. So really don't blink. Yeah. And how about just where you're at with everything that's going on in the world? \ Veronica: Mm. Ooh, that's a good question. Well, I'll preface this by saying I'm very selective about the news that I consume. Mm-hmm and have been for many years now because it affects my energy a lot. So that said I'm not deeply steeped in the day to day news conversation, but I know obviously you tell, so what's going on in the world, but I really maintain a very highly positive outlook. And I have, I look at chaos a little differently than people. So I feel like it's a really integral and important essential part of the creative process and things need to break down to break through and to make space for new things to be created. So when I look at chaotic things or stressful things going on, obviously I have compassion, but I also really. Position it in my mind as, Hmm. How does this fit into the cycle of what we're creating as a, as a collective, as a planet and trying to see that bigger picture? Always. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I feel quite positive actually. Monica: I do too. For the most part, I would say that I have also a different relationship to chaos. It's for me, I look at it as an ally and a, an opportunity for things to get redefined. an opportunity for new ways of being oftentimes chaos can lead us to more consciousness, more awareness. I'd love to hear more, more of your thoughts on chaos. If you don't mind. Veronica: Absolutely. Well, one of the things that I noticed, and I know fellow you're fellow creative, and I'm sure a lot of the people that will are listening are creative as well. It took me, a long time to realize that with every creative process, no matter what sort of thing I was working on, that there was reliably a stage of total chaos. And when I didn't understand that, usually what happened well, and it still happens sometimes, but I would hit a point where I would think I've made a horrible mistake. This is a complete disaster. I need to throw in the towel, start over, scratch everything. , you know, complete mellow drama, right? Oh, what have I done? It's all my fault. I'm terrible. I suck all of the nonsense that comes up, but I started realizing that that was actually completely reliable part of every process. And what usually happened. Pretty much right after that, if something would gel and you'd go, oh wait, I could see the light at the end of the tunnel. And then it would come together after that quite quickly. Monica: Mm-hmm Veronica: And it's that still holds true for, for me. So it's just this, it, it, and I loved what you said about re it allows you space to redefine things mm-hmm and it's almost like it has to happen. It has to happen because you can't create the new idea, the new solution, whatever it is, the new birth, the new thing out of the old energy or the way things were formed up before that it has to happen. Monica: Yeah. Veronica: Well, I'm scanning a couple of thoughts here, but it, you know, I've been getting in my channeled work so much guidance lately, too, about navigating the energy of chaos, because it's very much what's presenting itself on the planet right now in a lot of ways, energetically, politically, you know, system in systems and, um, in our 3d world, but very much internally, too, like our, our stuff is up. There's a lot of planetary and energetic influences. We have a lot of high solar flare shemen residents. Things are, things are going up and down a lot and that shakes up our bodies. So our physical bodies and nervous systems are having a little bit of a harder time, or maybe a lot of harder time mm-hmm and brings up emotions. So there's this navigating, how do we navigate this energy of chaos? And instead of fighting it to the nail all the way, finding space to actually work with it. And it's almost like harnessing the power of a storm instead of trying to fight it. Monica: Yeah. I love, I was actually thinking about a storm right before you said it. Cuz I was thinking it. For me it's like that energy or that voice that's like, hold, hold, you know, meaning like don't fold yet. Just stay. Yeah. Don't give up the ship yet. It's, you know, just hold your position. It's just about to work out. And I also love that expression. I'll never forget kind of, I did landmark education in my twenties and I had some really incredible people that I had met through landmark education. And sometimes in the midst of chaos, what someone would say is this is what life looks like when it's all working out. Veronica: Perfect. Ha perfect. Monica: You know, and you'd just be. Oh, okay. Yeah, because it's true. You know, I think of the most defining moments in my life and they were preceded by the most chaos mm-hmm until things reorganized there's, it's just part of it. And I think that it can stir up a tremendous amount, like you'd said, not only in our bodies and around us, but it can stir up our emotions, our fears we can. And when I said body, I actually meant like physical symptoms, like inflammation, actually. There's like all kinds of different responses. I think the body can also have to chaos stress and then the emotional stuff, which is sometimes in the face of chaos, it will stir up. Uh, unresolved pain and grief and all the rest. So it is a very revealing energy chaos. And what gets revealed gets healed. Right. Veronica. Veronica: That's absolutely true. Monica: I wanna, I loved also what you said about the creative process, because I think we are in just such a, such an incredible potential of create creation, creative energy, creative ideas, reimagining mm-hmm , reenvisioning what, and getting really intentional about what it is that we wanna create in the world. And so I loved what you said too, about chaos being part of your creative process. It's certainly been part of mine as well. And with that, I also know that you've created yourself. a few different things. I wanted to get curious about the Athena. What do you call it? The Athena matrix or the what is it? Veronica: Yeah, the Athena matrix. Yeah. Tell me more about that. I'd love to, and, and it's it perfect because it ties right into exactly what we've just been talking about, which is I, I tend to get visions. I'm very visual person. And, and when I get downloads, they're very often highly visual and I think it was, um, the beginning of 2017, I received a really clear vision and I could see, I could see the planet. Like I was, if I, as if I were in space, I could see the planet earth and I could see that it had this matrix around it that had been holding. Our reality, the way it's been, that the way it had been up until that point and that that matrix was starting to break apart and crack and crumble. But what I saw was that also at the same time, there was this other matrix that was being, that was coming up through like growing up through as if like new sheets growing up through the, the ashes of a fire. That was the, the visual. And it, it was like this new matrix that was built out of light was coming up through while the old was, was, was breaking down and the message that I got instantly when I saw that visual was like, oh, we don't have to wait for the old to disappear. Or to be gone before we create the new, this is simultaneously happening and the other, and the other piece that I knew in my gut was that it was the co-creation. This was, this is all, it's not just, it's not something happening to us. It's something, we're all co-creating. But this time we get to do it consciously Monica: mm-hmm Veronica: Whereas the other was we all, I, I think that the general sense is like, we can feel a bit like victims in that structure. Monica: Mm-hmm Veronica: What the world is. And we're just trying to navigate in it. But this new structure of light that was coming out of that was totally D. The thing that we get to create, we get to create from a heart lead and soul led place co-create together and, and bring con you know, IBU it with consciousness and, and create a world that we all actually wholeheartedly want inhabit. And so I was searching for what do, what do I call this? This is a whole nother level. And I really remember at that time, I didn't feel like there were a lot of people who were ready for that conversation, because there was a lot of difficult stuff going on. And people, at least in my reality, I felt like most people I was coming across were just couldn't get out of that challenging conversation enough to have this bigger conversation with a few exceptions. Of course. So the name, the Athena matrix was something that came to me. I felt like it just. Seemed like I wanted something sacred and I, I too, like just would go into meditation and ask. And when the name and the, uh, spirit of Athena came, it was perfect because I thought she has both this, this, um, sacred structure, right. She embodies sacred like order and structure, which is in a healthy way. Absolutely essential for things to manifest and be held in a physical plane. But she also embodies the sacred goddess energy, which is connection to spirit and the sacred feminine. So I thought, yeah, this is it. And I thought, this is what we're creating. So that's the birth of that. And I could just see the trajectory of what was being created. And it's really interesting. I'll say now, Monica, I mean, this is what 17, so five over five years ago, this happened. Now I'm seeing, we are seeing in the world, what I saw, what at the vision that I saw, like I'm seeing it come to life and it's really freaking cool. Monica: it's so cool. I have full body chills. What else I love about what you're saying is like, I think about Athena and I think about her as springing from the head of Zeus. kind of the mythology, but when you look at it, it's like she was born out of the patriarchy. There's something really symbolic about that name that you chose because she's got this warrior energy. It's like, she's. The diamond, you know, out of like all the pressure of the patriarchy that pshhht., Veronica: I love that Monica Monica: Like Springs fourth, the daughter of Zeus, who in many ways becomes the, the catalyst for dissolving that hold that patriarchal matrix has had that hierarchical way of being in the world that is so predominantly masculine, the point of being overemphasized. And then the other part that I love about it is she's accompanied by the owl. Yes. Which is of course so much a part of this Sophia century. and the century of wisdom, Veronica just grabbed her owl that was behind her yes, there it is. And that the owl for me is that higher perspective and the owl cleaves through the darkness mm-hmm and gives us a higher perspective that there's wisdom in the chaos and that it's through the darkness that the darkness isn't, isn't what we've been taught. That it is. Ooh, it's not, it's actually also not a place to fear. Veronica: I love that. Monica: Yeah. Because you know, it just, it does feel for a lot of people I'm realizing like a really dark time. Mm. And I think, you know, , I was remembering what somebody said earlier, which is like that, you know how sometimes you'll see a funny meme and it's like, you think it's gonna be like, you know, it's darkest before the Dawn, but it was actually like it's darkest before it gets even darker. you know, and don't forget to laugh because there, there is this way that I think we have to remember when we are seeing all of these various things play out in the world, oftentimes on the heels of the other thing, where we've barely gotten a chance to take a breath from, if you are somebody who's paying attention to the news, that is the, the type of environment. That you will be exposed to is the environment that con continually projects out this fear energy that continues to keep us locked in what I call the chance of unworthiness or as you call it the matrix. And so I think it's really interesting because I don't know if you have anything to add about that, about the darkness, but I also, you know, I often talk about the dark being the place of creation, the void, the, the womb. Yeah. Where without that, without. the darkness. We cannot create. It's necessary for the new creation. It's the place where it all gets to belong. And the darkness is part of that. So, yeah, I don't even know if I'm making sense anymore, Veronica, but , I'm sure if anybody can make sense of it, you can. Veronica: No, absolutely it's necessary. And I love what you said about it may not be what we've been taught or it's more than what we've been taught, just like chaos. And I absolutely agree with you on that. That it's, it's the necessary part. I mean, we don't see definition in the light without shadow and, and it is the place of creation and it's very sacred. It's just in our culture. It's been positioned that, you know, dark, bad, light, good death, bad life. Good. You know, everything's either, you know, one or the other can't be both. And that's just, that's just one school of thought. But when you go back into more ancient teachings all over the planet in different times, always that piece, there is that piece of the darkness and the womb space, the silence, you know, the north on the medicine wheel, going into the cave, the Chaus, all of these represent that. And it's very sacred. Mm-hmm, , it's sacred space and it is absolutely necessary. It's part of the circle of life. Monica: That's right. You know, that's right. Veronica: You can't have everything else without that. Yeah. What if it's not bad or negative? What does get to be then, you know? Monica: Yeah. I mean, maybe it's the place new possibilities are born. Veronica: Mm-hmm Monica: And think I go back to that matrix that you so beautifully kind of talked about that vision. And I also, what I also wanna point out is that matrix projects, this story of separation, and for me, that's the other part of this is that whoever's been narrating this story up until this point that's breaking apart. That story of separation is, is breaking apart. And as the light comes up through, like you were talking about there's, all of these new stories are emerging, these new possibilities, these new, you could call them new realities. Veronica: Mm-hmm Monica: Are being born. And so you're seeing, I think we're seeing so much of that modeled in. So much of the women's circles groups that we are both a part of. We're seeing that modeled in so many authors who are sharing their work in a much bigger way with the world. We're seeing that in a new story around equality and inclusion, we're seeing that. And so sometimes when we are seeing us revisit things from the past where we as women are like, are you kidding me that we're still having this conversation? What I've been saying is it's actually, we have to kind of go back to move forward right now. I feel like that's also a big part of the energy is that there's this way that we're being brought back to like. Evaluate or look back at all of the ways that we've had this historical narrative and that we have to revisit each of these different narratives as they break down. Does that make sense? Veronica: Totally makes sense. Yeah. And I love that because it's like, and I, and I, and I've experienced that too. And it's the way I see it is that we get to see it through different eyes. Mm-hmm first of all, because we've done, we've all done our, our, our layers of work, each of us in our own way. And you get to, we get to see it through new eyes and almost kind of retell or rewrite the story from that space. Yeah. Reposition it, give it different significance and place it in the fabric of our life and our experience as a soul in a different way. That's maybe not traumatic anymore. Monica: Well, say more because I'd love like on that line of. What's the new story you're creating in your life. Veronica: Mm, Ooh. I love that tuning in on that for a second. For me, it's been largely about standing in my own power and by power. I definitely mean power with internally power within power, with not power over the old definition. I, the way that the lineage of my soul and the lineage, my life experience in this lifetime has brought me to a point in my life where I had a lot of held a lot of insecurity. And a lot of self-doubt like crippling self-doubt and it's been a pro you know, it's been a process. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna sugarcoat it and say, oh, I'm fine. Now that never happens. I'm much, you know, Other things have much more positive things have stepped forward to take up more space than that. It's not the, the main narrative, but I've been given gifts as have we all. And it's been a process of embodying those. Monica: Mm-hmm, Veronica: Allowing myself to embody them and to claim them as my own, or to claim them coming through me uniquely. And that that's totally valid and valuable and not to be dismissed, which is something I did for most of my life, probably because of all of, you know, the common, the soup that I was raised in. Monica: And can you gimme an example of that Veronica? Like what would be. What would be like the way that you were raised that would've had you kind of like dismiss your validity or your own gifts or your own potency? Veronica: Well, we're in a space of getting raw, uh, and authentic. So my dad took his own life when I was quite young Monica: mm-hmm Veronica: And that imprinted on me, I was three and a half at the time, and my mother was completely emotionally unavailable when that happened. And so emotionally, it took me a long time to realize, but emotionally I was actually felt orphaned, totally abandoned on both sides and because my dad to leave and it wasn't a quote unquote accident. My little, that little girl, my little girl felt like, well, you, you didn't love me enough to stay. I wasn't lovable enough for you to stay. And that that showed up in my life from that point forward, as you don't matter, you're invisible. You're not lovable. You don't deserve to receive love. You don't matter. Your presence doesn't matter. You're not noticed no matter what you do, you could leave and nobody would notice if you were there or not. Monica: Mm-hmm , Veronica: You're insignificant. Yeah. So those are all the voices of the trauma and the pain. And as they go through, grew up and went through adulthood, those show up in different ways. But I always felt like the odd man out, the person that was forgotten about, even when I, and just you ask, for example, like I remember so distinctly through my youth, no matter it was almost like it was orchestrated whenever there was any kind of group photograph. I was always the person cut out somehow. I was not in the photo and I was always the only person not in the photo. And, and that would hit me like so strongly it, it would throw me into depression for days, even weeks, sometimes Monica: .Right. It was like more evidence. Veronica: Oh, it was total evidence. And when I, before I had the tools to, to understand and to work through all of these things and understand what was going on, it just, it just blindsided me and took me down every time. And, uh, so I faced my own demons, you know, with suicide and not caring at all. Like really not wanting to be here. What's the point. Yeah. You know, this is not fun. Yes. So obviously I'm in a much, much different place now. Yeah. But yeah. Walk through some tough bits there for sure. Monica: Well, and what I, what I really appreciate about you sharing that. So vulnerably thank you. Is because I think that, you know, sometimes when I have guests on who are just so accomplished in so many ways, it it's like, yes. And , there was this time, you know, that I had to really look. Deeply. And I'm imagining, you know, if you're like so many of us that get to this point where you have this true kind of eye of the needle moment, you know, where you just have to kind of go in, it's almost like the Chinese finger trap. You have to go in further to get out. Veronica: Yeah. Monica: That the only way out is in and nobody can do it with you or for you. It's mm-hmm I say nobody can do it with you, but of course, I know that that's changed now because. We know that collectively, so many people are kind of going through this eye of the needle. And I think this is, this is why we've seen the rising of so many coaches. Who've gone through this themselves and want to midwife so many through kind of this rebirth yeah. Out of the darkness or accompany them into the darkness alongside, although we can't do it for you. We can be here. Yeah. As a coach, as a guide to remind you that you've got this right. Mm-hmm because that's what I Veronica: Needed believing from the sidelines. Monica: Right. Sorry. Yeah. Right. Like that's what I needed when I, I remember just wishing and, and it was a wise woman that I was wishing for. I was like, , you know, send me a wise woman and then I got three, but anyway, but after, you know, after, and I realized like in hindsight, gosh, if I had known that there was such a thing as, as a life coach or as a, you know, a life doula or whatever, you know, you wanna call it that this is what this is all about. I would've just wow. To have had that. Oh yeah. So what was your eye of the needle moment? Did you come to a point in kind of your mid or adult life where things had to fall apart and you had to kind of allow or surrender to the chaos in order to kind of have your path illuminated a little bit more? Veronica: Yeah. Well as probably with many people and with you, I'm sure there were a number of moments the most while there was yeah. Where do I start? when I was in. , I was Monica: Just gonna say any anywhere. And you could, you could just take us into one memory or moment or, you know, whatever feels right for you. Veronica: Yeah. I'll share one that I that's more recent. I mean, within the last 10 years, I would say so fast forward, right? I've done tons of internal work therapy, all of that coaching and, and my own spiritual work. And throughout that time, and, but I was now at a time where I had started my own business and was doing fairly well. And, but I had not yet brought my spiritual aspects into my business cuz I was, you know, I was raised in the older professional corporate thing. Right. Your personal life is over here. The story of ation yeah. Story of separation that's nobody's business. And if you're gonna be professional, you don't bring, you know, don't air out your dirty laundry at work, da da, da, all that business. So, yeah. You know, even though I don't think I embody, I was living that consciously, I was still very much ingrained that that stayed separate. So, but then low and behold, I was starting to hear murmurs from my clients of, you know, well, one of the reasons we love, the way you work is because you're so intuitive and you bring so much of that to your work. And I sort of would cock my head and say, I don't understand what you're talking about. so, but I was starting to get the nudges and, and the feelings in my gut, like it's time to start bringing that forward. And that brought up a lot of fear and, you know, some people talk about the witch wound. I was just, it brought up just illogical amounts of, of terror. Like there's no way I could share that, you know, I might get killed. I might get, you know, persecuted at the, you know, all of those things came up. And so it was very. It, it would always put me into sort of freeze mode. So I kind of brushed away those nudges, but I was laying on a friend's Reiki table at one point. And, and I, you know, was very quiet and I was just relaxing and starting to drop in and just enjoy the process. And all of a sudden it was at, I would swear, swear. It was so clear this man's voice yelled in my ear. Remember who you are. And it was a, it was a native American. I saw his face and I would swear that he rushed at me, like physically from I, I jolted my eyes open because I looked to see if somebody was there. It was so clear and it just felt to me, like in an nanosecond, I saw him, I felt him. And it was that validation. It was like a voice came from out of my past or something. Yeah, yeah. To, to wake me up. And I, in that, just in that flash, it was like, all, it was just validated. Like, no, it's time you have to, this is not an option. Like saying no to, this is not an option. Monica: Mm-hmm , Veronica: I'd love to say, oh, from that moment forward, I was totally visible. And I, my business exploded and everything wonderful happened. Not so much but the journey began yes. In a, from a different place. There was a moment of, you know, I really, it was like a come to Jesus moment. I really surrendered after that. And it was like, you know, I, I sat down with spirit and I was like, okay, okay, here we go. Yeah. I don't like this. I am. It's so highly uncomfortable. It's terrifying. Like it almost brings tears to my eyes now about it, but I'm in. Yeah. Like I trust you. Yeah. I'm in show me, Monica: I can really relate to the terror. Veronica: Can you see? Yeah. Monica: Oh my gosh. I can really relate to the terror. It's actually why I have a podcast is so that I didn't have to be physically visible. It was like my shortcut. And at the time when I started the podcast, I started it with Andrea, who was my business partner at the time. And, you know, shortly after she, you know, I had another little dark night cuz you're absolutely right. There are some of these bigger moments, but then there's, it never ends. It's just sometimes I even find myself. in hindsight, realizing I was in a dark night. I might not even know it at the time. Right. Cuz it's so subtle. Yeah. But right after we had invested all this money and rebranding and getting out there and putting the podcast out there, she exited and you know, at the time we were, we were great. Like she just felt this, she had her own kind of dark night and she was called elsewhere and actually ended up learning. She had a big health challenge to overcome. So it was, she was absolutely following her intuition. But I remember kind of once I kind of got that it was happening for me and not to me. I had this vision that kind of like when, when someone is, when you're a kid and you're whoever it is that helped you learn how to ride a bike is holding the back and then they let go. You know, and I, like, I didn't realize, but in this vision, like I was riding the bike and I looked back and she was like waving. And I was like, I'm riding alone. You know, the podcast for me was also getting through a stage of terror and I'll, I'll never forget that the first time I did it by myself, I had to pull over on the side of the road. Cause I listened to myself on the car stereo and I literally had to like pull over on the side of the road and kind of like hyperventilate and I actually threw up, wow. Like I actually vomited cuz I was so I was like, this is such a bad idea. Wow. And it just felt so vulnerable. I felt so exposed. I had such a vulnerability hangover and you know, but like step by step moment by moment choice by choice. Yeah. The path was revealed and I just kept taking. One more step, one more step. And it's sometimes I look at that terror, cuz it's not gone. It shows up in certain moments and I have to breathe and use all my tools. And remember, you know, that every it, every single revelation that has led me to hear has been these small moments of taking that next step or you know, that next level of exposure. But I, I loved what you said too about the witch wound because through woman's spirit reclamation, which is an organization, my dear friend Monette Chillen founded, we just did a w witch wound healing the other day, beautiful with Bergen Hyde. And it was. Really beautiful. And it was completely not what I expected. And while I had never really related to the witch wound myself, I was kind of there to hold space with, with the various women who were there. I totally, you know, left being like, oh, it was, it's something completely different from what I thought it was. Wow. And it really brought up for me this revelation about this DNA that we carry from other lifetimes from ancestry. And many of us had wise women in our lives who were. Very in touch with mother earth or they were midwives or they were herbalists or they were healers. They were all considered witches. Right. They were all afraid for their lives. They were all, some of them tortured burned. And if they weren't, everybody was in fear of that in different communities, in different parts of the world. So it really, I wanted to bring that up for my listeners because when you mentioned it, it felt really important to kind of illuminate that a little bit more. Veronica: Thank you. I'm glad you did. And I feel the same way. It's yeah. And I, if I may, I'd love to expand on my experience. My definition of that a little bit from my own experience in doing shamonic work as well. I see it that we have two lineages. We have our ancestral, like our blood lineage and that's one area of, of experience. And the things that we bring forward as you talked about in my experience, we also have a soul lineage. So we have different, assuming you believe in reincarnation, we have the lineage of our soul, the different lives that we've led, which may or may not cross paths with our, some of our ancestral lineage I've even expanded that definition to be more of a persecution wound. Oh yes. It really goes beyond for many of us, it goes beyond the era of which is quote unquote, like can go back, you know, as, as old as your soul is basically. And it's, it's just that terror or fear of, as you already described some kind of persecution or losing those who are persecuted, you know, the voice of disention in the last few thousand years has been highly unwelcome. And treated in many very unsavory ways. And that's all marked in our Acachic records, in our soul history, in our body history and our DNA, as you said. Yeah. So it's, you know, that's definitely part of the work I've been doing most for myself. And then where recently for clients too, because we all have almost, I, I haven't met anybody yet that doesn't have some layers of that. And it's just, I think it's such a, a vital area of healing and embracing and bringing, you know, bringing it with us and not just kicking it to the curb because it has a lot to teach us Monica: As it sure does. Well, I, I love that. I love that conversation and I feel like it may or may not lead into the next question I wanted to ask you, but I feel like it does because so much of this is very energetic and. You're someone that I look to as kind of an energetic master, you tend to work with energy. You tend to encourage others, energetic mastery. And I wanted to really. You know, open up this conversation a little bit more into how you work with energy and why it's so important to you. Veronica: Mm, thank you. Yeah. Well, energy for me has just always been kind of the, like my language. My native, my native tongue in, shall we say in life, took me a long time to realize that, but, and actually Darla Darla's quiz, Darla Ladoux. Has the quiz of your different, different magics and, and mine came up as vibration. And that was a very CR I, I mentioned it because it really kind of crystallized for me like, oh, I act, this is actually one of my gifts. And I, it kind of helped me frame it in a much more constructive way, made it less mysterious and amorphic, and, and made it more, more tangible for me. I just am very, I've always been very sensitive to vibration, to the feel of things, to how things shift, something can shift. And I can just, I can just know it. And everyone around me would be like, what? It's the same? Like, Nope, something just shifted something. I, I just know it. I can feel it. I can sense it. I can see it. And, you know, to, to your question for others, I'm just as we're going forward. And as we are stepping into so many of us bringing much more of ourselves online, so to speak so many of our more. Intangible parts coming forward and being called to be integrated, like what we know in our heart, what our soul knows to be true or where our soul wants to go. Even when the logical mind says you're out of your mind, that's crazy. Or that's, you know, doesn't make sense. And I, I just have come across where there's, there's these skill sets that are often so simple, but often overlooked as people wake up and start bringing more of their gifts forward. And I, and I just started having a lot of people asking me questions about certain things. People are very accomplished at what they do. Very very know a lot about. Healing modalities or creative endeavors or even spiritual work, but we're forgetting certain little holes or certain little basic sort of rudimentary things. And that was always like the thing like, oh right. I need to remember that to go forward and to be really effective. Like for instance, setting healthy boundaries like energetic, like we've, we're, you know, we've learned through emotional work to set healthy emotional boundaries, but when you start waking up to more intuition, more heart work and bringing those in, when you start communicating with your guides, now you're dealing in energetic in the unseen realms, and it's very common to completely forget about setting healthy boundaries in that realm. It's like we tend to drop and I've done it. I say that we, because I've done it too. I did it early on too. I think, oh, anything in the unseen is angelic. So I suddenly have no boundary and I have no filter and I, and I'm not even questioning or learning to sense what am I what's coming in? What am I allowing into my energetic space? What is my energetic space? So it's almost like we're expanding ourselves, but in that expansion, we're kind of advancing into new territory and not, we don't necessarily have language to navigate that new territory. And the way I experience that is that that's the realm of energy. And so it's so just seems so helpful. I know it was for me to have people help me with that. Show me how do I navigate this realm safely? And so that I could feel safe. and again, speaking to that persecution or that wish wound, how can I feel safe? Monica: Mm-hmm Veronica: Like I've worked so hard to feel safe emotionally and in this physical world and my emotional world mm-hmm so how do I now step into an, an energetic world and still be able to manage my own space, my own healthy boundaries, my own safety, so that I can feel comfortable being authentically myself in that realm. Mm-hmm without fear. Yeah. So I feel like it's just learning another language, another skill set for this new territory that we're, we're all expanding into. Does that make sense? Monica: Yeah, it absolutely does. I love it. It's like spiritual hygiene. Veronica: Totally. Totally. Monica: It really does make so much sense because again, That story of separation would have us believe that that's not a realm that that's for us, the, the, the average human being mm-hmm . So I wanna point out that many of us were raised in belief systems that taught us that to be engaged in any way, shape or form, or to think that you could communicate with spirits was bad or wrong. And this is exactly to go back to what you were saying, the witch wound , , it's all kind of connected to this story of separation and the matrix is all about keeping us disempowered and in fear. Veronica: Yeah. Monica: Versus in a state of connection. And co-creation. And when we can co-create and start to realize that we have people like Veronica out there and Darla Ledou out there. And then, and you start kind of really understanding that as you kind of start to re-inhabit your body, and if you are already reinhabiting your body, then your body will resonate toward your, your people that you're supposed to learn from that actually they're like here for you. And so if you, like, for example, if you're resonating with what Veronica's saying, if you're resonating with this conversation, it's kind of your body's way of saying go this way. Veronica: Mm-hmm and mm. Monica: And so Veronica, what would be like maybe a couple of tips that you would share with our listeners today about just something to be mindful of as it relates to spiritual hygiene and creating safe space or sacred space or healthy boundaries, or just being aware of. What that even looks like, because for a lot of people, it's a lot of woo woo words, and doesn't necessarily have a practical application to their own lives until somebody's like, this is what it looks like. Yeah. This is what you would do. Veronica: Definitely. Yeah. A couple of things, a couple base, very basic things would be like what you said, energetic hygiene. setting intention. I think we forget often the power of our word to take the mystery out of, out of it. If you're doing spiritual work, it's one, you know, you might be creating sacred space and that that's very specific thing, but just in daily life, like. You can speak into, speak into what you wanna create, speak into what you wanna intend for something. If you're sitting down to, let's say, if you're sitting down to even like we did today, Monica, before our interview, we sat down and we set the space. We grounded, we tuned in, we set space, we set intention and we just spoke, spoke it. So something like that. If you're sitting down to creative project, I do this like before a conversation that maybe I'm scared of, or there's some stress there. I asked for guidance. I asked for support. I state an intention that's for the highest and best. And I state for my highest hope for the conversation or for that situation. Things like that. Like whenever you find yourself in a situation, might maybe where stress is, is wanting to cut, be the, on the forefront. You can just speak what you want. Your highest intention to be for that and know that that's enough. And that alone creates space creates. Now mm-hmm space for new possibility and for support. And the other thing I'll say, and I remind myself this all the time and I remind people I work with all the time powers in, in energy, in the unseen realm cannot help you unless you ask so to ask. And this serves us well in our real life with other humans to ask for help, ask for what you need, ask for the support. And the beautiful thing about the energetic realms is you cannot ask too much. You cannot ask for too much, you can't overdo it, and nobody's gonna scoff at you, you know, for, for all of us in our, in our glorious independence. It's the challenge sometimes, but. ask. I mean, it even, you know, the classic line, right. Asking you shall receive, Monica: Right. Veronica: Remember to ask and the last piece, and I feel like this has been such a help for me is this, it's something I've been working with for the last 6, 8, 10 months, which is outer versus inner authority. And this goes back to our talk about chaos and navigating chaos, navigating hard power of the storm, rather than being thrown around by it. You know, we are raised in this culture largely to respond and react to what's outside of us. If people act a certain way, we respond or react to protect, or the news, we are being conditioned, how to respond to that, how to react to that, let you know how to, how to, and we make decisions in our life based on circumstances that we are presented with. But. My understanding. And my knowledge has shown me that it's and the more this becomes out here becomes malleable and crumbles and gets chaotic. Then where are you hanging? Like, where's your mooring point? Mm-hmm , where's your anchor. Yeah. Where's your anchor. Where's your north star. So it's this learning. And again, this is really a skill that we all can learn. It's learning to, to really learn, to, to strengthen your inner authority and let that be the first place that you go to, to make decisions, to plan your life, to plan your business, to, to, um, show you and inform you the best and most powerful ways to respond, because then you're responding to totally different energy because that internal authority is connected. You're connected to the earth. You're connected to your source universe. God, however you perceive that. And now you're plugged in to something that is imutable and will never let you down and never lead you astray. Yeah, no matter what's going on outside. Monica: I love that. I wanna revisit a couple of these points and I wanted to also offer to my listeners. So there are times where I feel ungrounded and untethered, and I can tell because I'll actually have a lot of chaos in my, in my head versus out there. Like I'm like, , it can be as chaotic as it needs to be out there. But if it's in my, if it's also in my head, that is a massive sign to me that I need to ground. And so sometimes I will literally, and I've got my kids doing it too. Cuz like if we're feeling untethered like that, it's like just slipping off our shoes. And especially on a, a day like today, just walking on the grass, just walking on the grass because the truth is, and there's a great book out there. I don't know Veronica if you know about it, but it's called grounding or something, but it's all about the electromagnetics of the earth and how, when we actually do that, it kind of clears our vibration and it realigns us and kind of there's something happens with like the negative and positive ions get rearranged in our, in our bodies. Veronica: Yes. So important. Monica: It's so important. And so the other thing that I do is even if I have just five minutes, I'll sit, I'll just try to get. Quiet, as Veronica mentioned, I might ask sometimes it's more coming from a place of gratitude, which is almost as if I already have received mm-hmm , you know, the, the assistance. Um, I don't know if that's a big thing for you, Veronica, but that's something that I've often been told to do. Like almost like Veronica: Definitely Monica: Turn the ask into like, as if I've already received it. It's like, thank you for helping me feel more grounded versus can you help me? right. I think either way works, but that's just my way that I've started to really, Veronica: Yeah, it's empowering. You're stating it as a fact already. Monica: Well, and I go back to what, you know, how we really started part of this conversation, which was that internal validation and that internal sovereignty is also how I hear it. And just to give an example, too, of what I think Veronica, you mean when you say that it's like, we can tend to go out there and ask people for advice, but they don't have our answers. They really don't. And if you can't get to your answers, then the most powerful thing that you can do is have somebody who loves you, ask you some questions. Yeah. You know, but not answer for you. They don't have your answers. They really don't. You have your answers and sometimes you need help getting to your answers. But I promise you, you have your own answers. Yeah. So that's that piece that I really interpreted when you said Veronica, like to, to really kind of validate, I forget how you put it, but it's like really check in with yourself about what needs to happen next. Because I think we have to feel it in our bodies. We to know the way, like when I've lost my way, my body knows the way. Yes. That is one thing that I have found over and over again. And sometimes I'll answer with my head Veronica: As we all do. Monica: Only later, only later to realize that my body is filled with resistance to the thing I said yes Veronica: To isn't that something. Yeah. Monica: Yeah, yeah. You know, and then I have to be like, oh, oops. That did it. Yeah. I'll try. I won't, I won't sing the whole thing for you. You're welcome. Veronica: We could totally break into song Monica: we, we, we could, we totally could. So yeah. I love that so much. And I. And yeah, I didn't wanna put words in your mouth, but if, if you had anything else too, just about clearing space, because I know, I know some people are kind of like, well, how do I clear space? I think I gave one example with the, with the lawn, you know, um, or clearing energetically. I didn't know if you had anything else there to suggest. Veronica: Sure. Well, I, I would imagine, or I'm guessing that many of your listen. Have heard of saging or, you know, burning a smudge stick or P Santo. So all of those work, any kind of smoke works to clear physical space and energetic space. Also, I, I really like rattling rattles. So you can, even, if you don't ha own a rattle, you can just put like beans in a cup or, you know, you craft day when you were a kid fold a paper plate in half, put some beans in it and staple it closed, but sound so sound is a really good, clearer and Monica: Movement dancing. Veronica: Yeah. Movement dancing is excellent. I mean, Dance party break, you know, in your Workday, never a bad choice. and breath too, both internally for our own physical being. But for space, you know, you can just extend that when you're breathing out powerfully. Imagine it like, like wind, right? Like how we open the windows on a breezy spring day, like today and air out the house, that's clearing your space, but you can do that with your own breath, with your own movement. So those are just a few of the ways. And honestly, I encourage people to get playful and use your intuition. And like you said, Monica, listen to your body. What does your body want to do? How does it want to help you clear the space? And, um, I always do this after I do it. After every time every client I work. It doesn't mean that the work or the energy's bad, it just means you're creating a closure to that container. But you can, if you feel heavy, if you feel stuck, I mean, I do it still, if I'm sitting down to, okay, I gotta sit down and write my marketing emails, you know, maybe not always the most flowing thing for my being, my brain gets a little cobwebby and if I'm feeling it, I'll get up and move, do some movement, do some powerful breathing, go put my feet on the ground outside, get some fresh air, clear out the cobwebs, come back nine times out of 10, the ideas flow more easily. But I feel like it's so important to a listen to those cues when we get them and not just power through, because as you said in the beginning, that's the way we've been taught. Like just shut up to that intuitive hit. Or our physical body sensitivity, you know, shut up, not now, not so good time, I gotta get this thing done and you just head down and you hustle and you push through and you negate that. But there's, this is part of like, there are other ways to work with that that are so constructive and open up the channels for you. So you can come at things with a whole new energy, much more expansive, much more is available to you then. Monica: Thank you. I love that. And I'll, I'll be sure to kind of include some of these tips in the show notes. And so Veronica, I know that you, you kind of have different ways that you work with women and one is in the kind of branding realm, correct? Mm-hmm and the other is as a coach, uh, for. All things spiritual. Like, am I, am I right about that? Veronica: Yes, you are. , Monica: We're very similar in that way. Like, it's like I have like these two. Hmm. I've always kind of been like, yeah, you know, I have these I'm in this marketing world, you know, marketing branding, working with other female entrepreneurs to help them to develop their programs. And then I have this whole other realm, which I call the revelation project, which is all about, you know, coaching and podcasts and really just amplifying conversations that I feel are important to be having in the world. And so I'd love, you know, I love that. I love that we share so much in common, but I would also love for you to tell our audience where they can learn more about you. Or if you have a specific program that you wanna highlight. Or invite them to check out you're more than welcome to do that. Veronica: Thank you. Yeah, I know. That's definitely one reason. I think you and I resonated right off the bat, like we can relate to to each other, having those paths, um, and walking kind of a foot in two worlds in a way. Yes . Yeah. And I, I feel like my goal I'm doing air quotes around goal, but one of the things I've been working with or playing with is trying to merge those paths and integrate them a little bit more and just ex you know, experimenting with that, to see what really helps people the most. So, yeah. So, um, I've been re more recently called to, to support people with some of the spiritual work. So I'm running a, um, a small group, an intimate group program in June. Which will run about six weeks, all around energy mastery and really learning some of these skills. We cover some of the basics. We talked today, obviously, but talked about today, but, um, we go much deeper with that. And, and the very unique thing about that, because I channel, I actively bring channeling into all of my work now in a number of different ways. And so that will be part of the curriculum. which is basically I'm co-teaching with my guides essentially. So I'm really looking forward to that. I think it's gonna be amazing. Monica: I know your face is all lit up Veronica: Because you're yeah. In the wisdom that comes through is stuff I cannot, you know, I can't make this up or I couldn't conceive of it. And, and they just bring such love, compassion, and beauty and intelligence to the things that they, the wisdom that they share. So that will be part of, part of that. Uh, it's called sacred energy mastery. And that is on my site, which I know you'll have, you'll put the link below. I still am working with, continue to work with women in the energetic brand space. So really where I'm playing now in that area is, is providing VI it's almost like energetic brand strategy. in many ways. Yeah. I really tune into the vision, but taping I'm able to tap into. My client's on a soul level and we delve into what's forming up on an energetic level for them. And it's really building your brand from that space. My focus and the thrust of that work is much more around the energetics. And then who, who do you need to show up as who do you need to be to step into that space and carry that evolution forward. And that I feel like is where the potency is design and all of that can come and that's secondary. I can do that or someone else, but I feel like it's this vision tapping into that soul piece and helping my clients come from that, that space for everything that they do and their brand and giving them tools to, to hold that and, and, and live through their, you know, put the business, let the business live through the brand in a totally expanded and new way that is built for where we're headed and not for where we've been. Monica: Oh, yeah. For where we're headed. Absolutely. Aw, yay. Well, the, this has just been, you know, such a great conversation, Veronica. I'm so grateful. Likewise, thank you. You know, for being here with us today and for my listeners, I will be sure to put all of Veronica's links in the show notes. I know we also mentioned several colleagues and their work, um, and some of which I've also had on the podcast. So I will link those episodes and until next time. More to be revealed. We hope you enjoyed this episode. For more information, please visit us@jointherevelation.com and be sure to download our free gift, subscribe to our mailing list or leave us a review on iTunes. We thank you for your generous listening and as always more to be revealed.