108_Stella === Stella: And then to kind of swing back into the darkness that you brought up before, you know, so when we're challenged in our belief system, I like to get curious about like, well, why, why, why is that challenging? And of course, anytime we delve into trauma, there's often something deep and dark and scary to look at, and this is true in the body too. So a lot of times I'll go into tissues and the body will start healing it, and it it'll. It'll hurt a little bit. And it's really just the stagnation working its way out or whatever. I mean, I can, it's a healing response basically. Right. But it is the darkness. Like there there's a, there's a darkness in the tissue that kind of needs to get expunged. And, and obviously like, you know, any time we opened the door for true healing, we don't really know what will we'll find there. I mean, I think. What's behind the very prevalent responses that are happening right now around medicine. Don't, you know, how dare you. You're not a doctor, how dare you have an opinion about medicine. You need to trust the authorities, you know, go and that whole trauma what's deep and dark there, you know, I think is. Whatever happened to you in your schooling system, you know, like whatever happened to you and your family, whatever happened to you, there's a lot of darkness that is coming up for us to look at. And I think we can, we can trust the, we can trust our triggers to be bringing us healing. Right? Like ultimately the root of it all is do we live in a universe that is generous, right? Like, is it, is it. All here for our healing. And obviously that is like a trigger for a lot of people because they're having experiences that are painful well and scary, fair and unfair. Yes. You know, racist and transgressive and you know, every awful thing happens, you know, it's, it's my belief that it's because we are loved that all of these things are happening. There's there's a lot to weigh too, before you get to that revelation. Right. === Monica: Welcome to The Revelation Project podcast. I'm Monica Rogers, and this podcast is intended to disrupt the trance of unworthiness and to guide women, to remember and reveal the truth of who we are. We say that life is a revelation project and what gets revealed gets healed. Hello everyone. And welcome to another episode of The Revelation Podcast. Today I'm with Stella Eisenstein. Stella's a writer and intuitive body work. Her work draws from her training in multiple modalities, including Oriental medicine, Esocteric Acupuncture, Ortho-Bionomy depth- hypnosis, and integrative manual therapy before becoming a bodyworker, she worked in publishing in New York, mostly as a traveler. Her first memoir star sister, how I changed my name grew wings and learned to trust. Intuition was published in 2012. Her new memoir about healing from breast cancer, scoliosis and autoimmune thyroid disease is currently being serialized at resonantattentiondotsubstack.com. Join me in welcoming Stella. Hi. Stella! Stella: Hi Sweetie. Monica: So good to see you again. I missed you. It's been days Stella: Yeah it's good to say I know. It's so nice to have you just around the corner. Monica: I know Stella: What a surprise, Monica: You know, the way the universe works. Yeah. Uh, Stella and I have a, I don't, what would you even call what happened to us? It was a. Divine choreography. That's what I'll call it where the universe was like go here. And I ended up finding Stella or Stella found me. I'm not sure what, but we ended up realizing that we have a ton in common and we just actually finished a retreat together that we both did this past weekend. So I'm kind of joking when I say. I haven't seen you in so long. I've missed you. I know. So Stell we could start just about anywhere, but one of the things that I have loved in, in working with you is just the deep curiosity that has started to come in. As I realize that you have this whole way of being with the body that is so different from anybody I've ever worked with. And. For our listeners. I heard about Stella through a friend of mine and I ended up on Stella's table. And the first thing Stella said to me was don't tell me anything, just lay on the table and let me talk to your body. And that is what she did. And what came out of her mouth then were all of the issues that were asking for healing in my body. That's my interpretation. Stella: Yeah. So I think I developed my understanding of the body over many years through just working with it. But I've recently come to understand it a little bit more with my head as a quantum reality, your body is an informational field that I can access. Anybody can access. It takes a certain amount of attention. And discipline to train yourself to perceive in that way. But it is, I believe, available to anybody. We are all beings sharing this informational field together and all, all it takes to get information from another person's body is first of all, permission. But secondly, just then an openness to perceiving what's there. I mean, it could not be more simple. I think I've always had a, an interest in, I don't know if it goes the train. Uh, I don't know if it's more of an interest in kind of root cause or just simplifying, but yeah, I, I think healing is way, way, way more simple than we make it out to be. Monica: Yeah. Well, it brings up so, so much in when you say simple, because I think we have over complicated it and there's also, you know, this. I don't think a lot of people like, remember, I won't say it's like, they don't know it's that they've forgotten. Stella: Right. Monica: That we are all energy and that we have this innate ability to come into communion or communication with our body. Stella: Yeah. There's a, been a big spell cast upon so many of us that tells us. We have to, the only way we can fix our bodies is by going to a white coat. The only way that we can know what's going on with our body is by getting tests and some weird facility that gives us numbers back and only certain people can interpret those numbers. And, and they're always true. And they're the full truth. There's nothing else to be found except. Kind of crazy methodology. I definitely used to fall prey to that too, but I, I cured myself first by going to acupuncture school where we learn to perceive what's going on in somebody else's body, through these subtle clues that the body tells us what the tongue looks like, how the pulses feel, what color the person's skin is color their hair. I mean, just all kinds of just subtle clues that we put together to kind of form a picture of what might be going on in somebody else's body. And that was, you know, a huge revelation. It, it just changed everything. The moment I was standing there in class and, and realized that Chinese medicine is, is a clinical medicine that relies on observation, you know, in many, in many modality meetings, smell, touch, taste, hearing. All of these, but very human. That's a very human way of perceiving illness and also a very subtle way of perceiving illness, where we can tell when somebody is out of balance, they're not sick yet, but they're out of balance and we can help bring them back into balance. So that was kind of where I started breaking away from that spell the spell of kind of Western technological medicine and then deepened into. A more sort of more and more deepened into kind of an energetic and also trauma based understanding of the body. And I spent many years really thinking about the trauma, how trauma gets lodged in our bodies, how we can dislodge it. Uh, and you know, trauma, not just as we think of it, you know, physical trauma, you know, or emotional trauma, but also past life trauma and spiritual trauma and belief, you know, belief, which can be true, you know, from trauma culture, you know, cultural trauma traumas that are so deeply embedded in our psyches, that we don't even see them. It's just part of how the world is created. And, and it's a fait accompli and there's nothing we can do about it. And I think actually our current. Of the world right now, where of course we have to rely on this one type of medicine because they know everything and that's all there is to know. And there's nothing like that's trauma. Sorry. You know? And so, and so then I took this like trauma model and I started working with a deeply in the body and realized that there's this really basic. Well, you know, Peter Levine talks about it in his book. He wrote Waking the Tigers with the Seminole books of this whole trauma, the understanding of trauma, where he says, basically it's a three-part process. You know, you, you identify the trauma, you resonate with it, or you, you kind of recreate the trauma, you recreate the vibration of the trauma so that you can renegotiate it. And then you have a. Safe space in which to can re renegotiate and then it just heals. And I realized that that's what we were doing with, as Bodyworkers, we're just going into the tissues, holding space, find recreating the trauma, holding space for it, and then the body kicks in and to heal it. And the classic example that I give about that is comes from osteopathy. There's a, there's a technique called positional release where, which is radically different than. It's a, it's a form of physical therapy, but it's flipped. It's a flipped paradigm. So you go to a PT now and they pull and stretch and use force to keep your openness. But positional release does the exact opposite. You shorten the muscle fibers, you create ease and relaxation and the fibers just kind of magically. Really. So it's this inherent reflex that we have for releasing trauma that lives in the body. And when I heard that, or when I learned that technique, I was like, hold on, everything is wrong, everything is wrong about how we're perceiving healing. It's not, it's not something you have to force. It's not something you have to push. It's not something. In fact, whoever truly heals that way, whoever truly feels that way. Know if, if your child comes to you cry. And you yell at them and tell them to go to their room. That does not help. Nope. You have to get like really basic, right? Right. You have to get down to their level. You have to witness them say, Hey, I see you have to witness. You have to say, Hey, I see. And then you lovingly hold space and they work it all out and then they're better. Monica: Yeah, I have the chills. Stella: Yeah. Cause that's, that's a whole thing. Like that's what I teach in resonant attention is just simple pro like, and every modality shares this pattern. It's not, I'm not teaching a form of bodywork. I'm teaching a principle of all healing, which is witness hold space. Miracle. Monica: Yeah. Witness hold space miracle. So for our listeners, I want to point back to something that I talk about often, which is how the revelation project originally started was through this shamonic photography that I was doing with women. And it was exactly this, and I didn't know what I was doing. I just knew it worked. And it was being with a woman. The pre-interview was literally all about understanding what's here now, what's here now what's happening? Where are you struggling and getting really just intimate with what the, what the current struggle was inviting her to. Basically come into a three hour workshop where we just created this amazing safe space where she could fully show up. And then all we did was document, witness, hold space for her to be herself. And then what we experienced was a miracle. She then left the session. She never got to see the photographs until. They were kind of launched into the world where she was witnessing herself at the same time everybody else was witnessing her. And as she was experiencing herself, she was also experiencing the love from all of these other people. And she had a miraculous healing and I kept thinking like, what is this? What is this? What is happening? But I believe that this is this field that you're talking about stuff. Stella: Yeah. I mean, yeah. You know, it's almost a nothing idea because it is so something we are so familiar with. We are, we like, you know, and Peter Levine gives that example that I just gave of the child, the mother with the child. We think that nothing happens there, that children are just silly. And that's why they feel better after no, they are, they are accessing the truth about healing, which is all they need is to be witnessed and to be held space for it. And then they. Heal themselves. So we actually in touch with this every day and it is across modalities. So absolutely when you are doing a photography session and you're witnessing deeply that person, and you're being super specific about where they are and what they, what their traumas have been and what their challenges, and just being seen. Another example is, um, this technology developed at zag, which is an intentional community in Germany and used it other intentional communities where they don't, they, these people live together, you know, and they're, you know, drama comes up all the time and rather than they do this at Tamara too, which is how I'm familiar with it. And rather than, you know, facilitate all these head to head confrontations all the time. Get everybody in a circle, let somebody come into the middle. They witnessed that person. That's it? That is the entire way that they manage all the drama that might come up between 40 or a hundred individuals. That's it? Why does that work? Because the field can hold it. They, they get witnessed. Everybody gets seen, held space for they're allowed. They're allowed to have their experience are allowed to just be. Fully, you know, fully themselves. And then whatever the issue is just works its way out of the body. It is not a difficult thing. We, we are under the spell of this modality that tells us we have to buy healing solutions. Now, the reason it works same reason because you go to the doctor and they hear what your problem is, and they give you this pill, which is essentially a form of holding space. Monica: Mm. Stella: I see you. This will heal you and they take it into their body and they heal themselves. Right. This is why placebo works. Monica: Right. Well, and it's also why prayer works. Stella: It's why prayer works. It's why all healing works. Yeah. And to some extent, you know, it's like, we're always becoming, we're always healing anyway, but you'll notice that we get it's like we get stuck and if we get stuck, if we just give that stuck place attention, it will move. It will transform itself and move on. Monica: Yes. Stella: The trick of course is giving ourselves the time and space and then actually getting super specific because sometimes it's really hard to know what the core issue is. We can't it's in their subconscious, you know, we can't see it. There's different methods for uncovering what the actual trauma is. One of which I love is from the Core-Elite foundation, which says Foursquare technique that a friend of mine teaches. Of course we did some medicine work this past weekend, which for me, you know, uncovered trauma, I've never would have seen without the assistance of those beings, those divine beings, because they were just able to hold a bigger space for me. They were able to meet me in a way that, you know, I think is, was, you know, carried an intelligence that transcended this lifetime. Monica: So. I'm having so many revelations as you're speaking. And one of the things that may be coming up for listeners is in the context of, and Stella, obviously it's like, oh, you know, my revelation is like, oh, did I think we weren't going to go here? You know, in terms of the context of what's happening in the world now, because there's, so what comes up is. We were. So I want to go back to something that we were saying about witnessing, because one of the biggest elements I think of making that space work is there's kind of this idea that we're all creative, resourceful, and whole, even in our brokenness, even in our illness. And so. It's almost like there's nothing to fix. There's an energy of like, it all gets to belong here that when that is witnessed, when we create that kind of container, where there is no judgment where there is no criticism where there is no, this thing needs to go here and this thing needs to go here. That's when the miracles show up. Stella: Yeah. Let me just go into this for a second, because it's really super important to what I teach anyway, do these resonant attention classes and like teaching about how to, how to do this. And this part is the hardest part and the most important part. So I talk about it as how to get out of the way, or I talk about it as standing in the place of the ancestor or. The hold space, right? These are all sort of the same idea, but, or sit behind yourself. So when I have somebody on the table, I will, I basically ask their body, how, what do you need? What do you need attention on? And their body will usually bring me to one place. Sometimes I can do, as I did with you where I can kind of catalog what's going on. And then, and then help the body can kind of help me decide. But often it'll just be like, no, no, no, I gotta do this first. So I go to wherever it is. And then I hold attention. With one part of my brain and the other part of my brain is literally sitting behind myself. So in order to create that allowance, I mean, when I first started doing it, I literally personal Hoffer. Yeah. It was earth Ursula. Hofer my Ursla teacher just said, just sit back a little bit more, just sit behind yourself a little bit more. Just imagine that you're sitting behind yourself and. Whatever, I guess, cause maybe I was doing chi-gong it wasn't that hard for me to do that. And I just noticed that initiated this energetic, that I've I like to imagine maybe initiate some sort of tour Royal field or maybe a vacuum where it allows some sort of energy to come in. But at one point I, I talked to Orland, Bishop the. Um, man, who brokerd to peace between the Crips and the Bloods in south central. Beautiful, amazing being who I was privileged to talk with for about four hours one day. And I just grilled him with everything I could think of. And I said, what's happening when I do that. And he said, you're sitting in the place of the ancestors. When you sit behind yourself, you allow their wisdom to come through you. And that's how he does healing too. And I was so moved by that answer. And, you know, honor the truth in it. The friend of ours recently said maybe it's techie, ionic energy, that this is the energy of possibility where all possibility is still available. And I'm just getting out of the way and allowing this to come down undifferentiated into the person's field. That answer I'm allowing all these answers. Cause I don't know, but that answers speaks to me from the point of view of my process in. Getting better and better at allowing that kind of healing or being more agile with those energetics or whatever it is. It was very hard for me when I started to do this to get out of the way, because I really wanted the person to get better, or I really wanted myself to get better. I really wanted my kids to get better. I really wanted my husband to get better and I couldn't get out of, I couldn't allow anything. To be the outcome. I couldn't allow them to leave the unhealed, you know, or I couldn't allow them to die ultimately. And, or like, it was really, it was like in the beginning, you know? Cause it's like, you're opening a bill, you got your shingle out, you open your business. Like you want people to leave healed. That's what you're there for. But until I made peace with, I don't know what this person's healing is. I don't know what their best outcome is. I don't know what their soul. Once I made peace with, they could be coming here to get confirmed in the idea that they will always be sick forever, more, they'll be sick. And this one couldn't help me either. And that could be the most beautiful thing that person needs until I got okay with that. I couldn't, I couldn't really help. I couldn't. Create the energetics that allows for a miracle. Monica: I, um, it's like, it's, it's profound, Stella: Profound, it's profound. And I really came, that came again as a deep lesson, when I had cancer, you know, I would sit there on the bed for hours on end with my hands on my body, trying my liver was shut, shutting down and I couldn't. You know, it was like, get out of the way Stella. And I was like, I can't, I I'm going to start crying. Monica: It's okay. Stella: But I was like, I can't get out of the way I have a kid. Like, yeah, I can't leave him. And it wasn't until I like spent, I spent like three weeks just like going through every permutation, like. Who would he go to? Like, who would my sister taken? Would my, sister-in-law take him? Where would he be? You know, like what would his life be like? And I went, I just, I just went through every possible permutation until I finally came to, I don't know. I don't know what this kid needs. Monica: Um, Stella: I don't know if he wouldn't be better served by me being here and not being, I don't know. Oh, yeah, it was so hard. Monica: Wow. Stella: \It was so hard to get there, but I, you know, I got there and I was like, okay, universe, I'm in your hands. You just do with me, whatever you will. I don't know. And, uh, yeah, that was like, Within a couple of hours of seriously making peace with that. My liver jumped back into life. Monica: Oh Stella: It went clunk and it, everything started moving again. Yeah. Monica: It's it's oh God. There's so much coming up in me too. As you, as you talk about that example, especially because I resonate with it, you know, like it's those places that you would never dare to go until. You literally have no other option, but to consider when you, and especially like, I'm thinking like, as it relates to healing, my children were the catalyst for my healing. It was literally like, I wasn't going to be able to do for myself. My love for them, allowed me to do for myself. Right. And we're keep using this word allow. And I want to point to this word allow because for me, it's a deeply feminine energy. Stella: Oh yeah, me too. Monica: Yeah. And which again is very interesting. When you look at the context of what's going on in our very patriarchal world. Stella: Yep. I know let's inject people with let's inject everybody. Let's stick something into how do you see that as patriarchal, right? Monica: Right. Like the literal penetration. Stella: Yes. Let's, let's penetrate everybody. And not only that let's penetrate them multiple times over and over and over and over let's force their immune systems to get better. Aloud, I call it a allowed technology. So with allowed technology, you know, it's the body, you know, it's like, what, what is the wisdom of the body or its head versus body, right? Like a friend who talks about healing as idea with meditation as a holocratic, uh, shift. So we moved from hierarchical, head down, you know, brain sending. You know, hormones and, and messengers telling the body what to do. We shut that off. This is he's describing what happens when you do have a positive, not mass meditation. You shut that off and you just pay attention very gently to wherever it is in your body, that it hurts. And it's no longer receiving this information from. The brain and cause your brain is just kind of humming back here going like LA LA LA. I'm not paying attention or I am paying attention, but very I'm not fixing, I'm not fixing. And then the tissues, the local tissues can uptake their own healing. And of course they know what to do. This is the holocratic model of business, but it's also. Resonant for the, as a metaphor for the body. And I think this is, I mean, I certainly feel this happening all the time. I put attention in somebody in a part of somebody's body and I feel the tissues start to dump toxins and uptake nutrients and start to repair themselves. And they're like, oh great. You want us to do that? Great. We know exactly what to do and they just go to work. It's amazing. I had to tell him one really good example of this, which is in my memoir. And I talk about all the time. Amazing. It happens all the time. Miracles happen all the time at my clinic, and they're not miracles if you understand the body as, as a reflection of consciousness, but if you're really stuck in the idea of the body as a meat thing, like a linear, like a linear meat body, then it doesn't make as much sense. Anyway, the example is, you know, the patient came, she, her foot was mangled and the doctors were waiting to see if they needed to pin it and surgery and see how well it healed. And she came to me and I went in there and the vessel was, there was a vessel in her toe that was still very much bleeding. It was torn and bleeding. This is the beauty of. I don't even know if I actually mentioned integrative manual therapy is one of the therapies that I, that I learned, but it was developed by Sharon G Mateo. It's an amazing modality and a lot of, a lot of what I understood really clicked in when I discovered their work and you can still get classes in it, and it's just highly recommend to anybody that's interested in my work to go look there too. So, and then one of the other, one of the gifts of IMT is that they, they don't hold back. The belief that they can perceive into tissues that otherwise we think we kind of can't access like vessels, you know, bone, we can heal bone, we can heal the brain like these from, from the other modality are just mind boggling. But anyway, so go into. And I just hold space there and attention and it healed, it, healed it. I could feel it underneath my finger tips, just healing right up so much so that the bone shifted, there were like six people in the room and they all gasped because the bone shifted into place as we were watching. Monica: Wow. Yes. Stella: And it's like, okay. I remember that TV show, whereas like the girl was broke, you know, would like jump off buildings and then get up and just sort of, yeah, it was. And that was that's what you can do. That's actually, you can do that. The body can do that. Monica: I know, I remember you were talking about, you were talking about something this past weekend and it had to do with an injury. I think it was an arm injury or something or a broken arm, and that particular person actually bringing attention to their arm and. What I want to point out and getting out of the way. And what I want to point out to the listeners is because we talk about embodiment all the time and how important it is to stay. Because one of the things that happens when we get hurt is we disassociate we'd leave. Stella: That's right. Monica: We leave ourselves. We abandoned ourselves is what we do. And that happens when we getany kind o trauma. We tend to disassociate versus come in closer and bring our attention to it. Knowing that we can actually communicate with our body and bring our attention to where, I mean, this is so metaphorical, right? Because I talk all the time. How to be with ourselves in our darkest emotional places and how to do, and it's the same thing, right? It's the same thing is like don't abandon yourself in your woundedness, whether it's a physical wound or a spiritual wound or a mental trauma to not abandon yourself, to stay and to allow. Are the two words that are really coming up for me right now, because there's a way that when we can't witness and bring compassion to our own selves in our own wounding, and we seek out there for the healer, we then give our power away to the outside world, which then defines us Frank. Stella: Yeah. Yeah, totally. The main point that I'm trying to make teaching these resonant attention classes is that, cause I think we sort of well know that there's a lot of therapists out there that work with trauma and kind of know that we can heal trauma. We can heal intergenerational trauma, we can heal emotional trauma, but we don't exactly understand that we can heal the body this way too. We could change medicine. We could have. People healing themselves. We could certainly have clinics where there are healers that are working, you know, like there are some, but yeah, this whole model, like of just you get broken, you get plastered and then, you know, it'll fix itself. Like, no, actually we could speed up that healing, probably a hundred fold by going into the trauma, paying attention with specificity, getting out of the way. And, you know, like, and miracle, like then it can heal instantaneously. Like it, it really it's, uh, you can go into the brain tissue and pay attention. If you know, anatomy really well pay attention to a specific part of the brain. Like I'm always going to our limbic systems are fried, especially right now you go into the limbic system and you hold space there and it starts to unwind and, or. There's a tear in the dura outside of, yeah, there's a tear in the dura giving you migraines, you hold space on it. It heals and you never have a migraine. You don't need to do surgery for that. You can do that with attention. We are made of information. We're made of light. We are energetic beings. So it's a radical rethinking of, and I, you know, what's happening right now in the world. I'm so frustrated because I know that it's so close. Monica: Right. Stella: And so many people are kind of doing this work, not realizing that's what they're doing. Having layers of belief that kind of limit what they have access to. It's like, no, no. Just where consciousness we can heal ourselves. Monica: Yes. And again, I want to say for all of us here that this is The Revelation Project. So I just want to say that what we're up to here is looking through different lenses and perspectives and getting out of our comfort zone, which is the zone of revelation where we can ha where revelations can occur. Okay. And, and so I like to say sometimes to reassure myself and my listeners, especially if I'm getting tight around a certain belief, It all gets to belong, right? Like it all gets to belong as a possibility. And when we don't allow for other viewpoints, other perspectives, other experiences, what we end up doing is more of the same, which isn't helping anything. Stella: And then to kind of swing back into the darkness that you brought up before, you know, so when we're challenged in our belief system, I like to get curious about like, well, why, why, why is that challenging? And of course, anytime we delve into trauma, there's often something deep and dark and scary to look at, and this is true in the body too. So a lot of times I'll go into tissues and the body will start healing it, and it it'll. It'll hurt a little bit. And it's really just the stagnation working its way out or whatever. I mean, I can, it's a healing response basically. Right. But it is the darkness. Like there there's a, there's a darkness in the tissue that kind of needs to get expunged. And, and obviously like, you know, any time we opened the door for true healing, we don't really know what will we'll find there. I mean, I think. What's behind the very prevalent responses that are happening right now around medicine. Don't, you know, how dare you. You're not a doctor, how dare you have an opinion about medicine. You need to trust the authorities, you know, go and that whole trauma what's deep and dark there, you know, I think is. Whatever happened to you in your schooling system, you know, like whatever happened to you and your family, whatever happened to you, there's a lot of darkness that is coming up for us to look at. And I think we can, we can trust the, we can trust our triggers to be bringing us healing. Right? Like ultimately the root of it all is do we live in a universe that is generous, right? Like, is it, is it. All here for our healing. And obviously that is like a trigger for a lot of people because they're having experiences that are painful well and scary, fair and unfair. Yes. You know, racist and transgressive and you know, every awful thing happens, you know, it's, it's my belief that it's because we are loved that all of these things are happening. There's there's a lot to weigh too, before you get to that revelation. Right. Monica: Right. And I want to, I want actually you to say more about that. Stella: And so just like the example. Yeah. So the example of my cancer is a good one, right? Like what could possibly be good about getting cancer from the way we think about it in the Western world, you know, like a child alone without his mother. That's absurd to think that that could be, there could be a gift. But when I went into it and I really deeply explored like, well, what are all the implications of it? What would be, what, what am I scared of? What am I scared of for him? What is, you know, just every element that's a deep dark nugget. And, uh, but it was the doorway to my healing. Right? Like it was the, it was, it was that I needed it. Yeah. It was like, yup. And I have all, I have consistently found that. All the time, you know, every healing I've ever done. Right. I was in chronic pain in my twenties. By the time I was 20 years old, I couldn't walk across the street without pain. And I'm now 50 and I have no pain in my body and it's not from avoiding the darkness. It's not from avoiding all the, like, What if I took responsibility for that boy doing that thing to me, like, what if I took responsibility for the way my dad was with me? What if I took response? Or like, just curiosity? Like what if, what if right. And I went into all those corners and I cleaned out all those cobwebs. That's how I got here. Monica: And I think what you're pointing to is it, then it opens the field of possibility. And this is this, you know, field. Our friend was talking about earlier the toroidal field, is that what we were saying? And, and what I want to also point to here is that when Stella said earlier, you know, it's because we're loved so much. That's what I want you to talk a little bit more about Stella. And then before we go too far, I want to talk about fear and its role in what's going on. So. I want you to talk more about like all of these things are happening to us because the universe loves us so much because that's a really triggering comment. Stella: I know. Yeah. Monica: So I want you to say more, like I fully understand that now. And I want to say, it's not our fault, what happened to us, but it is our, our responsibility is our healing or our healing is our responsibility. So I want to really be clear about that too, because you know, if you're somebody who was sexually molested, sexually assaulted, it's not your fault. What happened to you? Your healing though, is your responsibility. So I want to, I just want to put that out there. Stella: Yeah. And you know, and also I think the other issue is that we're kind of looking at there's what happens to us as a collective, like what happens in society and responsibility in society and that whole level of things. And then there's sort of individual, like what, what's your experience and how do you, how do you manage it? Yeah. Continue to maintain hope and openness and joy. So there's other levels of this too, but my, my I've had many breakthroughs on this issue of am I re you know, what am I responsible for? Or like, what am I, how does the world is a universe generous? And in all I can really do is share experiences that I've had, because I can't no. I can't even know I've sort of considered this. Like, I can't even know that what's true for me is true for you. Like maybe people out there. And I like, I, I'm totally willing to allow that maybe people out there are working with a completely different modality. And what do I know? I don't let me, that's like, all I can share is for myself, I have just consistently found the ground underneath every experience that I've had to be this unending well of love. That of my mother, you know, my like the gaian energy, the field that we live in, it's love. It's a field of love. That's what I just find over and over and over again. So my most recent experience with that was just recently, let me give you an earlier one and I'll just talk about, you know, sexual trauma or cause it's so, so many women have had sexual trauma and of course. You know, how are we responsible for sexual trauma? We're not, it's, that's not the point. The point is that if, when you've had sexual trauma, it can be really a beautiful exercise, a cleansing exercise to ask how did it serve me even without taking off. Without taking on at all responsibility for it happening to you, it did happen to you. And so how do you work with that? That's there for you if I were right, it's just a, it's just an extra, it's just a healing exercise. It's just, Monica: uh, creating space for another way. Stella: It's a way to clean your body. Yeah. It's a way to resolve trauma in your body. And so I just, you know, get curious with it and say, if I, if I was responsible for this, how did it serve me? So my. Horrible first sexual, not my first sexual relationship, but my big love of my younger life, you know, treated me pretty badly. And he, how was I creating that? How was I, how did it serve me to have that experience? And we're always looking for, I'm always looking for the clinical response. So, you know, it's like you come up with all these answers, how it might, one of them. Will resonate in your body. One of them is a key that unlocks the door so often it's a word there's a really great book called focusing by Eugene Gendlin. It was a, it was a bestseller in like the seventies. We've known this stuff forever, but we don't really apply it. But when you find the word, like when you find the, so it allowed me to feel disgusting or it allowed me to feel unworthy or it allowed me to know that I'm worthless. Like whatever the word is, you'll feel it. Uh, ouch. You'll feel it land in your body in a way. That matches the trauma. So this is why specificity is so key because there's, you know, a recently I found this word disgusting. Or if this, you know, it's disgusting, this is my father. You're disgusting. It's like, And it was like, it's like with that accent. Right. Monica: And that holds a certain vibration, right. With that accent that matches your experience of it. Stella: Yeah. Cause that was the word that got lodged so deeply in there. Right. That I had to, like, I had to prove that to myself over and over, I'm disgusting, you know, like I'm just disgusting like that. And it, it was like, once I found that word, cause it was hidden, you know, there was no I wasn't, but it was like, once I found that word, it was like, oh yeah, there it is. And then I pulled it out and I was like, how am I disgusting? How have I manifested disgusting in my life? How is, cause it's not, it's not like some twisted part of my brain that wants me to believe that I'm disgusting. Right. It's trauma lodged in my body. So unless. Let's I get curious about it. How am I going to get it out? Monica: Yes. Stella: Right. Unless I find that word, you know, this deep seated belief that my subconscious is holding onto saying, am I disgusting? I don't think I'm disgusting. I'm just a beautiful creation of God. Like, how am I disgusting? It's so deeply disturbing to the subconscious that it's asking all the time. Am I, am I? And it's. To prove disprove it, right? Like it's wanting to get it, pull it out into your conscious so we can say no, no, no, no. You're not disgusting. That word got lodged in your body when your father did that thing, you know, or said that thing to you. It's okay and then the inner child can release, relax and say, oh, I've, I've been seen. I'm not disgusting, you know, and then, and then we're free Monica: And then we're free. Stella: We're free of needing to create that all, all the time for ourselves. Monica: Right. And recreate it and recreate it and recreate it. Yep. It's really fascinating. It's like, Unanswerable question that is like, you know, I've experienced them as the true ghosts, right. That haunt us. It's like waiting. I had this experience once of having this revelation during an event where I took my daughter to a concert and the way. I was being with myself. And the way that my family was being with me was so loving about my own human mass, my own mistake that I had made, that it created an opening that allowed me to remember every time I've ever felt like that. And every. Every memory that held that vibration came to me. That's right. And I was able to bless and release all of those ghosts in, in a drive home from, you know, missing a concert in Boston. Like basically because I, you know, arrogantly assumed something. That's exactly right. Then it had me face all of these ways that I had been arrogant in my life, but without fighting it, I just allowed it and everybody else allowed it. And then suddenly I had these memories that I had never had before, but they were definitely there because the tears were coming. And so it was this. Profound. Stella: Wow. Monica: Experience of healing in this one and a half hour car ride, as I just loved myself. Stella: Yes, that's beautiful. Monica: And so we kind of opened up a little bit of a Pandora's box, which am I, brag is amazing. And I'm so happy that we did, because I want to have you back for multiple conversations. Stella. One of the things that I want to do in kind of the last few minutes of our call here is just talk about fear and the role it's playing in so much of how we experience the medicalized world right now, let's say, and all of the ways in which we. Are being kind of taken right on a ride. Like when I think about, first of all, all of the ways we give our power away, we give our power away spiritually. Like I've talked about that a lot. We've like for those of us that have raised in a religion and especially as a woman, I was taught, you know, that I was unworthy from day one. Basically that I was responsible for the downfall of humanity and all of that narrative and Eve and the garden of Eden, you know, he took that along. Right. And so many women did. And also that I needed an intermediary to speak to the divine. Versus that the divine is inside of me. And I don't need anyone to talk to the divine. So same. Like my father was a doctor, right. I saw how people idolized and bowed and like his word was gold. And yet the human I saw behind closed doors was a fallible, you know, alcoholic like human being that is, has, is in the human mess and, and, and the sacred and is he was broken and brilliant. Right. Like we, these things get to stand together. So I really wanted to just finish our conversation on just what is fear all about and what is it doing to us when it comes to our health? Stella: Well, Francis, Monica: Come on two minutes. I know. Thanks, Monica. You're welcome. And, and more to be revealed audience, right? Because Stella is going to come back and talk more about this, but. Just a nugget, Stella, just a nugget Stella: A little nugget about fear. Well, I mean, I think that we're really going through a deep initiation around fear and that our task is to sit with it and be with it and allow whatever it emerges from it to come up and be welcome at the table so that we can co resonate with whatever it is and release it. Like, I mean, I think Gaia has had this beautiful initiation into. A different phase, whatever that is. And it's bringing up fear. I mean, I think there's also a transition away from the Western medical paradigm being so dominant. I mean, I think that it's been it's moorings have been eaten away solely by solely by the efficacy of alternative modalities or understanding about trauma, certain scientists there's certainly physicists and scientists that are. Rewriting our understanding of the reality that we find ourselves in and all of that. Unmooring the pillars on which Western medicine stood and it's terrifying. Daddy's going away, daddy's going away. And all of our inner Childs are freaking out, Monica: Right? Like who's, who's going to hold it together now Stella: Who's gonna, who's gonna fix me. Who's gonna take care of me. Who's gonna, you know, and, and, you know, we'll do, we'll make it any bargain to keep them there. Even turning our immune systems, giving our immune systems over, over to the mob, to the mafia. Like, we'll do that. If daddy will promise to stay, we'll do anything to make daddy stay that's what's so, I mean, you know, I think if your fear is an ally that, that precedes the dark revelation, you know, like, like what is really behind there, what is our inner child really. Really calling out to be held around. That's my little short answer. Monica: That's your, that's your golden nugget. Stella: I mean, I, yeah. Fear is like, I've had this incredible relationship with fear that that really has just beaten my butt. Like I've been saying. Everything, you know, like I've been scared of stuff that goes down in this world. I've been confirmed in that fear over and over again, you know, stuff that goes on in other realms. Like I'm a tariff, I'm a terrified little individual. And I, I faced that fear all the time, even to do my cold plunging thing. Like every morning, I'm like really you're going to get in there. And I'm like, yep. I am just going to do it. I'm just looking, I'm opening the curtain. Just keep opening the curtain. Just get curious. And as long as, you know, as long as you're in a safe space and you're held and there's people around you that know what you're doing and know that you might need support in looking at your fears, even if you don't have that Gaia, it probably is. It will be there for you. But Monica: Right. It's what I'm hearing you say too, is it's not about eradicating fear. It's about being with it. It's about witnessing it it's about seeing fear as an ally or a disguised gift to get closer to, Stella: You know, one of the books, one of my absolute favorite go-to books is The Language of Emotion by Karla McLaren. And she talks about fear as being always true for one thing. Always true. That was profound for me. It's always true. It's always telling, alerting you to. Uh, danger in your field. Monica: Yeah. Stella: Now it might be alerting you to the danger that your ego might be dying soon. Monica: There's that? Stella: But it's always worth listening to, and it's always worth honoring fear, never comes as something other than divine wisdom. It always is. It always has a spark of divine wisdom in it. It is always now, but you can perseverate on your fear past its useful. Monica: Right. And I love the word persever. Cause I was thinking too, like fear can tend to separate us, can make us disassociate or it can tend to separate us from that inner knowing that that divinity within us, where we actually hold our own answers and can stay in our fear and be with our fear and witness our fear and heal our fear. Right. Or right. There's different functions and there's different ways of being with. And then there's also of course, legitimate fears that are telling us. I get the hell outta here right now. So that's very useful. Yeah. So we'll have a whole nother discussion on that, but deli, you know that I adore you. Stella: I adore you too Monica: In in all ways. And I just, um, you are such a gift. You're such a gift to me, you're such a gift to everyone who meets you. You're such a gift to the world. And so I can't wait to continue our conversation for our guests. I would love to know if, if they have. You know, questions. If you want to find Stella, check out the show notes and until next time more to be revealed. Stella: Thanks so much, Monica. Thanks. Monica: We hope you enjoyed this episode for more information, please visit us@jointherevelation.com and be sure to download our free gift, subscribe to our mailing list or leave us a review on iTunes. We thank you for your generous listening. Always more to be revealed.