110_Christa Buthelezi === Christa: People told me I would be in a wheelchair. They told me I would die. They told me, you know, all sorts of having to do with those diagnoses and with the things that happened to me, what my, the expectations for me would be. And I made a choice a long time ago. That I wasn't going to let those expectations define me and that I was not, and this was a very difficult one for a child who was raised in the conditions that I was raised in for that adult to do. But I decided that I was not going to worry. What about what other people thought? And I was raised to put that front and center. So that was a big swing. It took a long time. And. Those are the things I think that I can share that are, are universal. I've lived it, you know, I studied with Bessel van der Kolk for long a workshop the summer before I came here. And we spent a lot of time together. He and his wife and a friend of mine. And he said to me, because I was thinking about becoming a psychotherapist. He said, oh God, no, please don't ever go to school because you have the understanding from the inside out. === Monica: Welcome to the Revelation Project Podcast. I'm Monica Rogers, and this podcast is intended to disrupt the trance of unworthiness and to guide women, to remember and reveal the truth of who we are. We say that life is a revelation project, and what gets revealed gets healed. Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of The Revelation Project Podcast. Coming home to yourself. What does that mean today? I'm with guest Christa Buthelezi, who's an author, creative and guide whose work focuses on supporting people as they become themselves fully and well, her first book, Ubizo. A story of coming home, tells her own story of finding her way from her upbringing in the United States, to her current life in South Africa and the discoveries she's made along the way. She's now living happily ever after in a magic forest with her family, a host of birds, wildlife, and three somewhat domesticated dogs. So please join me in welcoming Christa. Hey Christa. Christa: Hey Monica how are you. Monica: I'm doing well. And you're joining us from South Africa where it is currently 6:00 PM. Is that correct? Christa: That's correct. Monica: All right. Well, and we're here in the United States at 11:00 AM. Just to give our listeners a little context. So you always talk about where you live as the magic forest. I'm so intrigued, say more about. Christa: Well, we're in Quizalunatal which has the Northeast. Uh, coast of South Africa, the province and the city closest to us is called Durban, which is sort of the third city not talked as much about as Joe Bergen, Cape town. I nearly didn't come here when I first visited, except that I knew some people here and it's just, it's lovely. So we have the coast, we have dolphins or whales or sharks. We have all of that. And then the Bush where I originally lived is about four hours. But about a year and a half ago, I moved inland towards the Drakensberg mountains. So we're in an area called 1000 Hills. And that's exactly what it sounds like. It's just rolling hill after a rolling hill and we. I found a 15 hectatares indigenous forest until the last one of its kind in the area. And while I wasn't looking to move or to buy anything beyond some pastor for goats and cows that all magically worked out. And then of course, you know, I write about it in the preface of the book and the prologue. It is the place that I envisioned. And an exercise 10 years ago. So it all came to be, I thought originally it was Canada, but I was wrong. Monica: Yeah, Christa: No, this is not as African a landscape as the bush. Monica: It's a fascinating story. And for our listeners, You grew up in the United States? Correct. So I would love it. If you wouldn't mind also giving our listeners more background on how this great transition came to be. And what now has you in the, in the magic forest? Christa: Well, I not only grew up in the states, I grew up in the Northeast coast as well, but of the United States. So the joke here is that I just landed in the wrong country, right place. I spent most of my, I spent a little bit of time. Well, not six or seven years in the south, just after high school. And then I spent most of my adult life in Chicago. And then the last eight years in Washington, DC. So some people say that that explains me moving to the other side of the plant, but we want to go into that this episode. And that's another episode for perhaps the different podcast. So I'd always been fascinated with Africa from the time I was a very small child and South Africa in particular. I don't even know how it's a four year old. I understood, you know, there was a place called South Africa when many adults today still don't understand that South Africa is a country in Sub-Saharan Africa. So it was a lifelong interest, passion obsession, somewhere in there Monica: Or in your DNA. Christa: Yeah, or in my DNA and somewhere in my cellular memory. And I, to the point that I asked when I was a very young child for someone to teach me,Zulu because I had to know how to read so little yet, I had learned to read English very young. So clearly there was something there, but I was told it was ridiculous. I was told I was crazy, you know, and eventually I put it all away and just carried on trying to build a good life, the American dream, which I did to a large extent in many people's estimation. And it wasn't. It just wasn't. So eventually I was in a long-term marriage. That was not particularly a great thing for either one of us, I think. And. I took a trip by myself the first time for a month and came to South Africa to go walk about, to think and decide what I wanted to do were very companionable. There was nothing horrible going on, you know, but it just, I knew Ubizo means a calling the calling. So I knew I was called here and I came for a month. I knew by the second day that it was not a vacation. I know that there was far more going on. I had never felt so, so at home anywhere, and I traveled a lot and there were places that I really connected to before deeply, but this was something else. And then, um, went back to the states and a month later, came back and stayed. And that was over six years ago Monica: Now you knew that there was more going on and other than it feeling like home, what else do you mean by that? And you, and when I say home, there's an element of like familiarity that I'm making up. Tell me more. Christa: Yes, exactly. Um, you know, Goldilocks terms that, you know, adjust right. Kind of chair. I had never felt that I belonged. That's sort of been one of them things I've been working on in this lifetime. I certainly was not wanted nor particularly loved in my family of origin. Although by my extended family, I was, and still am. I tried very hard to fit myself into a box and should be normal and to create a good family because I never felt I'd had that as an adult perhaps too hard or too long. I'm not sure. And although it all worked out fine and then. And I'd never felt at ease anywhere. I'd never felt I connect easily. I'm a chameleon. I, I travel easily. I have no trouble with that. And there were certain places south of Spain, Scotland, Ireland that I really, really felt strongly that I would thrive there, that I would do well there. But when I came here, I was standing on these huge rocks on the Western Cape at dawn Watching wooly next storks as the sun came up over these mountains and the connection for my feet into the earth here was just so solid. So strong. So. The people welcomed me. In fact, when I ended up getting too Quizalunatal that people here saw me, first of all, as I'm going along, which is a healer here, I know it's never a title that I would have claimed that was given to me over and over. They, the language came easily to me. The clicks came easily. It was just like a sliding back in. Hmm, the way I've always seen friends of mine. If I went home with friends for holidays and things, and they just sort of slid into being home, I never had that in the home I grew up in. And it felt like that Monica: Say more about, they saw you as a healer. Like what, how did that, what did that look like? W how, like, give me an example of like, when people would reflect that to you and like, when did that start making sense to you? Christa: Making sense to me, I'm not sure when, when did I accept that, that it was true. That took some time, but it happened pretty immediately. When I w when I first came here, I was in Joburg in the Western Cape. I traveled around quite a bit, and I met a few people along the way, who I particularly connected with the Zulu tribe and the primary tribe here, Quizalunatal and natal. And while I did connect with other tribes, there was something different about that. And they saw me. All told me, you know, people say, they're going to come back. People say, they're going to move here, but you, you could do that. That was said to me, probably seven or eight times in that month, when I landed in Quizalunatal last week, we spend up at a beautiful reserve owned by ambient and beyond called Pinda. And we were staying. And, uh, a home, I was staying with friends, so it was just us. And we had the same staff every day, the same guy, the same tracker, all of that. We were all together for a week. And from the first night, our tracker and I spent four hours just talking. About what I had seen about the people, the questions I had, and he was fascinated that while I love the animals and I still do that, my primary connection was with the people. And it's been said and said again, since that that's not usually the way it happens, you know, that my connection was to them. We did things like he was in the staff. There were no, there were, there was someone I met earlier in Durbin. Uh, who's a sangoma who took me. And to her alter area and, and was showing me things in a way that she typically doesn't. And then with them, they just. We're very, as only as the Lucan people can be very matter of fact, like this is who you are.Get It used to it. Cause this is who you are. You're one of us, you may be in a Mongo lights person, but your heart, you know, your heart is with us. And we did ceremony in the sand for us. We, they brought us music, which, you know, typically he would bring those musical group. And so for some special guests and I played drums that night and got to know everyone and it just fell. It all felt so, right? Yeah. You know, it was so easy. And the last day we were there, I was just in tears, 4: 30 in the morning. And he found me outside because I had to go, I had a few more days somewhere else. And you know, in the, he said to me, look, you, everyone says, they're going to come back. Some people say they want to live here, but you, you will. You know, and I was like, I can't come back it. And I was like, sort of seven months. No, no, you'll be back soon. Monica: So here you had this life back in the U S you were married, you had children. Yeah. And when you went on this walkabout, you had no idea. When you embarked on this journey that this would eventually become your home or even a month later, right? Christa: Not a clue. Monica: And so what in the world had to transpire for you? Cause I imagine it was a one thing to be there and to have the experience, but then to leave it. Come back. Like, I'm just kind of, so curious about what that process was like in those four weeks time that you had to go through in order to like, speak your truth, figure out what you were going to do, and then go back. And just for some more context, how old were your children? Like where in your, your kind of marriage were you? How many years in like, tell us. Christa: So, and I didn't just to preface all this. I didn't know when I came back in January that I would stay, I knew that it was the beginning of a shift in life, but I thought, because you get a three month visa here, I thought I might take three months here, three months in the states, you know, build a foundation, do something back and forth. So I really thought, I knew that life was changing. And I had known for years, that big change was coming. I had known and I'd just been somewhat patiently waiting. So my daughter was in her. Last year varsity, uh, university college. Then my husband had an extremely demanding job and, and was very focused. Always, always our entire marriage had been extremely focused on this work. I had been wanting to go to South Africa forever and he just could never find the time. So, uh, I went on my own. So when I came back from that first trip and it was the day before Thanksgiving, so my in-laws were there. My daughter had a friend, all that, and all I could do was talk about South Africa or cry. First of all, I didn't want to get on the plane. I was a very seasoned traveler. So this is just strange. I didn't want to get on the plane. I found myself like, how do people stow away? Maybe I can just get a return ticket and just go straight back, you know, like crazy, crazy thing. That's going through my head. And I just sort of tried to hold myself close on that trip back because I'd never not wanted to go home. I, I I'm, uh, my birthday is in July and like, can Sarah, you know, home, it's a big thing for me. And it wasn't anything against my family, but I had been living a life that I thought was supposed to make me happy. I was a good wife, a good mother, you know, all of those things. And I had put them first. Always and I had put myself last. I didn't do anything for myself until I was about 45. I was 54 at this time. I had worked at, I loved, I had friends that I loved. I had, you know, I gave up a lot to come here, but when I, so I came back at Thanksgiving for a couple days. I just, you know, no one, my family did not seem very interest. And hearing much about it. So I chatted with friends a lot. I looked at my photos, I cried. My husband came in and brought a little yellow sticky note that gave me two dates. This was the end of November. It'll be two weeks in July that he said, see, we can go, we can go back in July. We'll go together. And you can show me all these places. And it was, and I started crying again because it was too far away. It was for too short a time. And he, I think he sensed that. He said, you can stay longer, but I can just do two weeks. And he wouldn't have been my choice of traveling companion. And it hit me really hard because his value system is one that he wouldn't understand the connection I had. I spent all my time say it depend on. Uh, all my free time chatting and talking with them and that it's not something that he would be comfortable with at all. And I just realized, as I had been realizing for a few years before that I had, I had asked for a divorce three years before I left. So that was the decision I was trying to make. It was just one of those forks in the road where as soon as I got out of the box, I was in which I put myself in, you know, I built that box, meaning, well, And once I was out, I didn't get back in it. When I came back, I just didn't. So we did some talking, we did a lot of soul searching. He basically just said, one morning, you're going back. Aren't you. I just, I just came out and I said, yeah, so we set it up. So that the first three months I had paid volunteers to do it was not a four-star or five-star tour the way my first one had been, it was living in volunteer housing in a whole different, getting to know geckos and spiders scorpions very well.And I was happy as a clam. You know, I was happy as a clam with that. We've thought that I would probably come back. He thought that he would support whatever charitable work I did there. And, you know, none of that turned out to be true when completely differently, but only really after I'd been back for a month or so it was when we began to see that. Monica: Yeah, Christa: I couldn't leave again. I just couldn't. Monica: So what I'm hearing too is you have. Uh, soul, like, uh, there's a, there's a soul contract with this place and that it, like I'm making up that it really, it wakened you at a spiritual level in such a way that it was like you were resonating so much. And like, almost like, like I'm getting this imagery of a woman who was like starving for her, for like the foods from her culture from her place. Right? It's it's like those traditional ways in which we hunger for the, for the foods, from our Homeland. And yet. Christa: You can't sign them where you are. Monica: It seemed so strange that this was revealed as your Homeland and like such a, such a strange revelation, right. To have, as you were kind of like just unpacking it all. And so I know we can take this conversation in a number of different directions, but what I really want to ask you is like you write this beautiful book. Why, why did you want to write it? What, what became like critically important for you to tell the story of? Christa: So the early chapters about my childhood, I wrote as a part of a different book while I was still in the states before 2015, I think I finished it in 2014. And that, that was to help me process it. I'd been through a lot of therapy and all of that. And one of the things in therapy that really helped me to process trauma is to write it. And so I did, and the book was just really, really strong and, and would have been triggering for a number of people. And I just, wasn't sure you know what to do with it. And I wasn't sure about the purpose of it other than helping me. So that was done then I I've always been big into journaling. So I had journaled and more and more here, I just used Instagram as sort of a. You know, w when I was writing the book, I went back and looked at my Instagram entries and that really helped me to re get kind of order and where it was when I met the right people. And all of that, the reason I wrote it during COVID not the bulk of it, uh, really all of that as it exists now. And the reason I wrote it as this one, it's a time in our civilization. When the unexpected is happening continually just when we think we can breathe again, then something else happens. Another variant, another crisis in the world, and what we prepared for corporately, what we. Thought we, we, you know, we thought we had a plan, right? And we, we go to college or we train and we've got this whole plan and you know, and all of that, just like investments now, you know, financial planning is that's changed. Complete the lay of the land is really changing and I want it to let people know that everything can change. And it can work out better than you ever on that. Because look, there's a lot of loss in that book too. There's been a lot of loss in my life and a lot of lessons learned. I didn't want to write a coaching book. I didn't want to write a mindfulness-based. book. I could have either way what I wanted to write, because I believe that human beings learn best from story. That's why I think you probably, I hope part of why you do what you do. I really think that human beings learn best from story. And when I was talking with people, American and European friends who come here to visit and telling them, I'm thinking about writing a book about all is a lot of people said you should write a book, but when we talked about it on a real level, and I said, well, what would that book look like to you? You know, like, just write the stories that you tell us around the fire and when we're driving forever to get from one point to another here, just the way you tell a story, just tell those stories. And so that's what I did. Monica: What, you know, you talked to about the fact that you didn't, you didn't realize that part of your childhood and. You know, that the challenges that you faced as a child were going to end up being part of this book. So what was it that got revealed to you about the connection between your childhood and what you faced in your childhood and what you discovered about this home in South Africa? Christa: Well, part of it was just simply. You know that I always grew up feeling I didn't belong and then found that I do belong in not even within South Africa. My life is highly unusual. My entire family is my husband is, you know, like I live a fairly traditional Zulu life. I practice traditional African spirituality. I teach black African people who were raised Christian, and now I want to connect with our ancestors. I teach them traditional practices and how to connect with our ancestors. So I have an unusual life even here. Part of it is trauma. So I was diagnosed with PTSD back before people, you know, before it was a catch rise. And, and I've been through obviously a lot of trauma and I've worked with trauma for a very long time, uh, with others, this. This book, I hope shows so many of us. We become our trauma, my PTSD, my cancer, my Lyme disease, my all of those things. And I've had, I've had cancer three times. I had undiagnosed and untreated for 20 something years. You know, I've been sick as a dog, which is also part of a traditional healers journey here. And yeah, and people told me I would be in a wheelchair. They told me I would die. They told me, you know, all sorts of having to do with those diagnoses and with the things that happened to me, what my, the expectations for me would be. And I made a choice a long time ago. That I wasn't going to let those expectations define me and that I was not, and this was a very difficult one for a child who was raised in the conditions that I was raised in for that adult to do. But I decided that I was not going to worry. What about what other people thought? And I was raised to put that front and center. So that was a big swing. It took a long time. And. Those are the things I think that I can share that are, are universal. I've lived it, you know, I studied with Bessel van der Cole for, um, uh, long a workshop the summer before I came here. And we spent a lot of time together. He and his wife and a friend of mine. And he said to me, because I was thinking about becoming a psychotherapist. He said, oh God, no, please don't ever go to school because you have the understanding from the inside out. And that is irreplaceable. And truly a lot of my clients when I was in the states, came from psychiatrists and psychologists where the standard treatment wasn't working, you know, I kind of went in the back door and I think that's kind of the point of the book too, is I've traveled these roads. I know them, you know, come with me. I know that you've been on some of these same roads. Let, let me show you how I got off that path on top. Monica: Yeah. Christa: Yes. I hope I have achieved that. Monica: Yeah, well, and, and it's, it continually is revealed, isn't it? I mean, it's never done and it's, you know, the, I think you and I, in our, some of our conversations previously, I think I hadn't really shared with you that like the revelation project for me is, is this continual practice of, you know, being in a state of allowing and in a state of exploring and discovering and revealing and unbecoming from everything that we were either colonized to believe or taught to believe, or which is basically the same thing. Right. I mean, when we really look at the institutions that we've been brought through with. Been conditioned out of our instincts. We've been conditioned out of our intuition. We've been conditioned out of our, I mean, I can use all the inwards because we've been taught not to trust our, our inner being, our spiritual of being we've we've instead been taught that our validation or authority. Is out there somewhere and that, and oftentimes we give our power away over time. And it's a little bit like that metaphor of boiling, a frog in water, but doing so, starting from a very room temperature, such that the frog doesn't even know to jump out of the pot and gets boiled alive. Bessel van der Kolk. Wrote the body keeps the score, correct? Yes. I remember an interview with he and Krista Tippett, and I remember a definition of trauma being brought up that just made so much sense to me. And I think, I think it was Christa that reflected it back to him. After reading his book, that trauma was not being allowed to know what you know, or feel what you feel. And that was very much my experience growing up. And I think, I think that's true for so many of us who have been, who have had to kind of go through this process of unbecoming is that we, we realize that there's every day, trauma. And then there's kind of capital T trauma. Some of the traumas that we've experienced, you know, either through abuse or suffering or, you know, some kind of extreme treatment, but more and more, I think as. You had kind of pointed to where in these extraordinary times now, where change is a constant where no longer is kind of the status quo, keeping us in this illusion of safety. And it really is an illusion and always has been. And so, you know, there's so much wisdom in what you're saying, and there's also so much. Wisdom. And each of us that is our unique, you know, revelation project to unpack and explore. And I, I often, you know, think that I used to say, like, I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy and yet, and I say that because of what I went through and yet the truth is I wish it for everyone because. It's like, I went through such a struggle, such a hard time coming to this wall where I had to kind of like everything that wasn't true or serving me or aligned with, who I truly was, had to follow up on. I had to be stripped bare to the point where that ego death is so painful and who you think you are underneath. All of that is such this, this magical forest. I'll put it in your terms, right? It's like that we metaphorically get to live in each day. If we're willing to go there Christa: And, and to stay there, I think. Well, two things trauma for me. I, you know, that definition I definitely concur with, but I've come to see that trauma is sort of like, you know, if you break your fingernail now and you don't file it, if you just leave it, you're going to hurt yourself with it. You're going to scratch yourself in the middle of the night or whatever. Right. It can be very sharp. So trauma is like that file, you know, trauma is. Allows us to move forward and to evolve is that makes sense. You know, it's the roughening or those rock tumblers we used to have on our kids. You know, it was so loud and it sounded horrible. And the whole idea of taking these pretty rocks, but then look what came out. But there's also the, I think it's talked about less. What we have to give up. So I said, you know, people identify with my cancer, my trauma, my bipolar, my whatever. In order to move forward. Not only do you need to do the work and you know, all of that, that you, you know, the thing is that we wouldn't wish on a worst enemies where we're sending amaze, but maybe the people we love, we would there's this also this, the side piece of letting go. I think we talked about that analogy that I often use is I grew up in the ocean and you see it here too. Watching kids collect shells on the beach. And they'd make a little pocket with their t-shirt and they put all the shelves and the rocks in there, and they're happy, happy, happy, and they find everything and we go through life like that. We collect things that just, you know, are great. They're fine. They're oh, this is a pretty one. Fine. That's good one. Okay. That one, that one is whole. Maybe it's not a color we liked, but it's whole, so we'll put it in there. And then when they're little pouches full and they're looking for mom or dad or the car. All of a sudden the holy grail of shells, this is that inner knowing the thing that really just blows their minds. And it's what they didn't know they wanted, but it's right there in front of them. And it's the most beautiful thing is right in front of their feet. But there are pouches so full that in order to reach it, they would have to spill out as they bend over some of what they have would spill out there. No way to get to it without losing some of what they've accumulated on the way. And I think that's a point that's less talked about and that I tried to write as much as I could about. There are a lot of wonderful things. That I had to give up in order to find what was truly mine and what truly was there for me. I don't know anyone who has really landed at a place in life where they feel very fulfilled and very themselves, and like they're following their inner voice would be as other calling who hasn't gone through a great deal of loss. I don't think it's negotiable. But it's less talked about. Monica: It's true. It is. Christa: We want the world to change, but we don't want to go through change, you know? So in a global scale, all the changes that we're going through, everyone knows everything needed to change, but oh my God, everything's changed. Right. Monica: Right. And I, you know, and I often think there's, there's so much. There's so much kind of like fear stoking, like the media machine is, is constantly kind of just stoking that fear of machine. Uh, there's no other better term for it. It's like an endless engine. And I just think it's so interesting because there's, and I'm going to say this without needing to be responsible for how people hear it. But what I'm going to say about that is that that is by design, that, you know, we tend to become what we consume on a daily basis. And if we're being fed a steady diet of fear, and we're not ever kind of critically questioning the. Nutrition that we are trying to metabolize each day. And it ends up making us feel deceased then eventually. And I look at disease dis-ease as a separation from our inner knowing. And that is exactly what the system wants to keep us from knowing is our inner knowing because when our inner knowing starts to lead us home, To who we really are. We can no longer deny it, nor are we confused or fooled into separating from our true self ever again. And a lot of people have never had that feeling of knowing who they truly are and there's any number of reasons for that. And. It stops though, being a good excuse anymore when. We are in so much pain and suffering. Like it becomes like a, a louder and louder cry from our body to get still, to get quiet. And I do believe that if we don't make the time for our wellness, we will be forced to make time for our illness. But either way. Christa: That was certainly my case for a long time. Monica: Same.. Christa: That was certainly my, it took over. And that's not an unusual story for people who are now considered healers of one kind or another. Monica: Yes, yes, indeed. Christa: Um, or light workers. Yeah. It's as you said, it's the frog in the water. People don't even realize they're in a water, nevermind the pot, nevermind that the water is getting warmer. And it is by design. I mean, this is probably another conversation, but, you know, colonization. Um, you know, if we don't want to talk about Africa, look at the Viking civilization, and you know, the Christians eventually overcame, you know, an incredibly sophisticated, incredibly. You mean in many ways, civilization is, I mean, it's just most structures in this world of that sword are all about control and therefore the fear-mongering in that big engine. It's not just starting now. I mean, this is, this has gone on forever and it's always been. You know, in particular, obviously of interest to me are the ways that it's affected women and the way that it's affected black African people, the toll that. Colonization has taken here, not just on the black tribal people, but on the white people as well is stunning and will take a long time, you know, while it's nice that the apartheid's over it will take a long, long time to correct to, for people to self correct. Those, those roots run deep and it takes a concerted. It takes a great deal of courage. It takes a great deal of strength. It takes a great deal of devotion really to yourself. And to what you'd like to see in the world in order to move out of that. And I don't believe that process will ever end. Right. So that's the light in the shadow. Monica: That's right. And it's been, it's part of, I think all of our human and spiritual work in that kind of evolution of consciousness, you know, and, and waking up right to. To the truth of who we are, as I, as I say, Christa: We just keep walking. Monica: Yeah. And you know, I'm curious, what are the main differences like that? You see the stark real differences between life in the states and in South Africa in, in terms of like comfort discomfort and anything else you want to kind of point out that as, as real differences that you see. Christa: Well, we're coming into summer now, so that, you know, the being upside down season wise and realizing from this point of view now how Northern hemisphere centric the world is, how everything works that way. Um, I don't think I'll ever get used to warm Christmas. That is just, um, until I hear Christmas music in the stores and see, you know, for us to win, it's very strange, but overall, One of the, if I had to sum up one thing that I've rarely seen and I saw quite early on is how much for, you know, my experiences in the United States. I think it probably carries maybe less so to Europe, but somewhat for, uh, for North America, how much the emphasis is on being comfortable on. You know, it's the, you know, the thing that I grew up seeing is that people work really, really, really, really hard and pinch pennies and save and save and save to buy a house in Florida so that they can, and maybe a boat so that they can bend the retirement and warm sunny weather near the ocean. You know, for example, Rather than enjoying those days, because we never know. We don't know if we're going to get to retirement age. We don't know what's going to happen, but this self deprivation to get to a certain goal and to be comfortable also, you know, the houses are built much more tightly central heating and air, you know, all of those creature comforts. It's all about being. The car is just all of that things here are not comfortable a lot of the time, uh, no matter how nice a home, you know, I mean, I don't, you know, I'm not suffering. Um, we live, we have a very nice house know all of that. Thank you. Conversion rate. And yet I went into our, our lieu or our guest bathroom on just before we got on. And there are, there were a row, it was a collection of about six different kinds of spiders. Um, the w which is nothing, you know, there, that we opened the cover to that it gets something. And there are these of these, I call them armored crickets. They're crickets that literally look like they're wearing bronze armor, strongest looking, crickets empty. And it just staring out at me, you know, those kinds of things. For example, you don't. Uh, we, we have things like load shedding. So there's only one power company in the whole of South Africa that runs all the power. There's no competition. There is, I think I'm letting any secret out of the bags. There is some amount of corruption. And so there are times when we're on a schedule where people just don't have. Yeah, we it's just not, there we go. The first two years when I was here on the drought, we often, often didn't have water, but sometimes we still don't have water. Those basic services are not. Guaranteed. The kinds of levels of comfort that there are in America are not guaranteed here. And yet one of the most commonly used things in South Africa is we'll make a plan. Yeah. Okay. We don't have any water. Do you have rainwater? Okay. You've got rainwater. Who's got, you know, something, we can put it in where the buckets, it's just a common thing here and everyone pulls together and that is a beautiful, beautiful thing. The way people pull together to just get through whatever it is I find. Since that kind of community to be really, you know, and, and it goes people who might argue with each other about a lot of things on most days, we'll reach across to each other in those kinds of situations. And when we had that looting recently here, you know, people, it was amazing how people gathered together to help each other. Monica: Yeah. Well, and I'm, I'm imagining too. That beautiful vision that you shared with us about the, the full t-shirt of shells. Right. And having the shell. Right before you. And so there's some of what you gave up is like this comfort. And yet what I'm also hearing is that your needs are being served at such a deeper, different level than what comfort provided. Because I often say that comfort is killing us, you know, like that, that, like comfort is such an interesting. Thing to put as, as front and center, because like the comfort zone is that place that I often say that like, it's, it's lovely, but you don't want to dwell there. Like it's, it's kind of like, you want to yeah. Christa: You can visit Monica: Yeah. You visit, visit the comfortable places, but don't well there because it doesn't, it doesn't, it's not that it doesn't have enough grit to make the Pearl, as you had kind of talked about earlier. So yeah, I love that. So, so talk to us a little bit in our final minutes here. There's a big connection for you and for me, but I'll say for you, because it's something that you focus on between creativity and spirituality. And I wondered if you could talk a little bit about that. Christa: One of the things that is very obvious to me that I don't, I really can't comprehend why it's not more fully understood. Are you getting rolling thunder coming across the Hills now? Monica: Perfect. Based on our card that we pulled Christa: The perfect the storm. Yeah, exactly. So for me, I, I believe that crativity. So in our bodies, we have a spinal fluid, right? There's a rhythm between our crane and our sacrum that keeps everything flowing. And I think creativity is that kind of, that sort of fluidity in life. If you look at, even in the American sense, you know, an old village, there would be the person in that village who was really good with herbs, the person in the village who was really good at making bread. Um, the person who painted houses are built stonewalls, you know, And we have with, you know, the industrial age and all of that. When, as we've sped things up to an inhuman in new humane pace. And in doing that, we've cut out creativity, just like we've cut out art programs out of schools, right. To music and all that. When we bring creativity back into our life, everything flows. Easily more fully when you get someone, for example. So I, I do sort of a art therapy, kind of an expressive arts practice with people. When you get someone who can't really speak in therapy or can't speak of what's going on, but you get them playing with paint. You'd be amazed. What comes out. It's just a vehicle. It's a way to allow all that to flow and. I wonder, you know, really what we have robbed ourselves of in the world by making creativity sort of for dessert, making it the extra thing, not a part of our daily lives as it was for so long, you know, standing and chopping vegetables versus worrying them in a food processor a time and a place for that. Gives you time. It's meditative. It gives you time to slow down and catch up with yourself. It just like, as we were saying earlier, you know, about. People being contained, people being asked to act a certain way and, you know, control. What does that kind of control Rob the world of what does, by trying to make everyone believe in one kind of spirituality, one kind of religion and making that part of everyone's lives, whether they subscribe to that particular belief or not, what does. Rob people up when we take away people's rights and freedom to choose how to believe when we make one way wrong and one way, right. Or many ways, rather than one way, right? What are we doing to ourselves? I wonder about that a lot. Monica: You and especially, you know, we see this kind of playing out right now. I mean, we see it all the time, but I'll just say right now in specific, I see it a lot as it relates to kind of, you know, everything being it's like, it's, it's like somehow vaccines, right? With this whole like new religion is like the latest kind of example. it's, it's been fascinating to me. And when you talk about the fact that we have taken creativity or even arts and music and things out of our schools, you know, it's, it's like, it's really stunted our ability to question, to be in the questions to, to, Christa: Yes. The uncertain. There's no like an equation. There's an answer to the equation, right? It's an equation that they're going to answer, but when you stand in front of a canvas or you pick up a clarinet, Or, or a cooking class, even, you know, you, you give everyone the same recipe. You're not going to get all the same products, please, hopefully. Right. And that's what expands our world as well as our own souls. That is the place for our souls. Same with our humanity. When we take that away, we are taking our away. Are you managing. We are taking away our soul level, you know, our spirits. And I don't believe that the human race was designed to live that way. Monica: But yeah, what's coming up for me as like a viewfinder member. Those viewfinders when we were kids. And like, it's like taking away the little paper thing that you put inside, you know, and like, look through another perspective because. Like, I want to go back to this whole idea, right? Like this idea of like vaccines are for everybody. It's like, that's one perspective. And it's like, there's this other perspective that talks about natural immunity. There's this other perspective that talks about a whole different way to interpret and to care for oneself through nutrition and spiritual practices and right. Like there's so many perspectives on that view. Christa: Yeah. Even homeopathy and you know, other, other types of nuts. Absolutely. Yeah. That had been around for how, for Monica: Millennia millennia. So it's, it's again, it's like, and what, what is also really fascinating for me is to kind of see this continually kind of like play out. It's like, oh my gosh, are we ever going to learn? And I also know. That something deeper is happening. And like, all of this is happening for us in this way that it's like creating that discomfort, that edge, that grit for us to really awaken against or to, you know, to refine. And it can't happen without that. It can not happen without that. It cannot happen. It's so it's it, these times are so, so regulatory. I wondered if, if you would just grace us with a passage, maybe a favorite passage from your beautiful book for our listeners. And perhaps we can kind of end with not only that, but Christa: Yeah, I think this is, I think this is a good one. This is from chapter 27. So towards the end of the book, In the end, after all of these bumpy, curvy, dusty roads, I've traveled over the last several years. And before that too, what have I learned that a place can call to you and bring you a great distance only to challenge you mentally, physically, and spiritually in ways? Well, beyond your imagination all while whispering so strongly that this is. That someone, a grown man, a mostly grown person who calls you mama, or anyone really can show up in your life and become so close to you that you forget to guard your heart and then leave you without explanation unclear as to their motives and whether there was truth in any part of the relationship that the innate gifts you have will bring you just as much challenge as they will bring new joy. Often much more yet that they truly do define you and infiltrate, whatever you choose to do with your days, whether you acknowledge them or not. Yes. To all of that. And then some, and yet they've taught me too, that I am far, far stronger than I know or will admit to knowing that while I often feel like that little girl who was told she'd die alone and broke, there is an always has been a spectacularly powerful and wise old woman. She has brought me through experiences that many could not survive and allowed me to tell the tales to inspire others, to stay and not define themselves by the external events, inflicted on them, to tell the stories and yet not become limited by them. She has allowed me to witness the journeys of brave souls and to welcome new ones to the world, to help many find their own inner resources and others to grow in what can only be considered hostile conditions. I like to think that she's been with me as I've written this. The good, the ugly of the amazing and the crazy making cajoling me to share openly and deeply from my heart, when really it would be far easier to erect, very, very thick walls around all of my internal world, put on a very good disguise and walk around pretending to be that elusive thing called normal. Monica: I love that. That elusive thing called normal. There's a podcast title. Amen. Right. Oh my God. That's awesome. I love that. And so Christa, you know what haven't I asked today that you might've liked me to ask or that you want to end with, to our listeners? Christa: This is a fairly commonly used thing that social media outlets are like comparing your everyday life to someone else's highlight reel. I think that many of them. Set our experts expectations for ourselves based on what we see about others. And there's no way to know because we all do things with our own lens. You know how true that is. People tend to put me on a bit of a pedestal sometimes in terms of, you know, look what she's achieved. Look what you've done. Look at, you know, all of that. And I have had an extraordinary life. I'm grateful for everybody. I am very grateful at 62, not to have a life that doesn't resemble anything that I thought 60 would bring and yet, and this goes even across to like racial things and things like that. You know, here, it's very common to want kind of a new life and that sort of thing. And to, to think it's much better, but you know, we all bleed the same blood, no matter what others label us, as I wish that people. Could turn their lens on themselves and see the incredibly exquisite organism they are and stop looking at what they aren't. That, that is one of my greatest wishes right now and what I'm really focused on in this next six months of tickets and time to, to evolve the next part of my work, because that's the end goal is to hold up a mirror for people. And allow them to see that who they are is truly extraordinary. Yes. It's all by the messaging. You're enough. You're this you're worthy, you know, but beyond that, you're exquisite in so many ways we all are. This planet is how do we help people put their gaze and their intention? Versus on everything, but isn't Hm. Monica: Just really breathing that in. Cause like yes, to all of that, I, I often say. You know, we're each our own revelation, right? It's like you are a revelation. Christa: Yes, exactly. Monica: Yes. And Christa: I love the word revelation and that's exactly what it means to me. Monica: Yeah. Like the, like the decolonized version of it, right. Is, is this, this is this very kind of like expansive word. Has so many incredible meanings. Christa: Sometimes when I used to be on an airplane, I would sit there and think I am sitting with a bunch of bristles and a metal tube flying. Like how extraordinary is this? Really? Yes. And that's everything about life is extraordinary. If we allow it to. If we let it be Monica: Right. I love the phrase to be properly astonished. Right. by by. Christa: By. These the Mary Oliver poem. Yeah, yeah, Monica: Yeah. A bride of amazement. Yes, indeed. Yes. So I'll be sure Christa to put all of your links in the show notes, is there a particular place that you would like for our listeners to visit you? And learn more about you. Christa: I think, you know, my website is https://www.thisbeinghuman.co.za but much more current is, are, and I know you'll put the links up on my Facebook and Instagram feeds. There is one that I don't think you have, and it's called just at this being human or there's a page on Facebook, this being human. And that's where I share just photos of my. And short quotes poems that inspire me. Monica: Awesome. I'll be sure to put that in the links as well. So I just, so Christa, I just want to thank you. Thank you so much for being, you know, who you are. Thank you for your work in the world. For our listeners. Christa's book is a Ubizo. A story of coming home. And until next time more to be revealed, we hope you enjoyed this episode. For more information, please visit us@jointherevelation.com and be sure to download our free gift, subscribe to our mailing list or leave us a review on iTunes. We thank you for your generous listening and as always more to be revealed.