80 Kathy Karn Kathy: And we just sat there. I mean, I trusted him. And maybe a half an hour, 40 minutes later on the horizon. I see these little bumps and I said, elephants and he, I was sitting in right behind him and the way the vehicle was, he could open the door and I could lie down on the floor of the vehicle. So I'd be nice and low. For my pictures. And I was set up with two cameras around my neck and this group of elephants came directly towards us. It was stunning and they passed us in and then another group came and then another came and then more came and over the next, I honestly don't know I was in an altered state by the time in weed, I was just in this world developments. It's like, okay, you want to see us here? We are. And I realized after, when we, when he, he and I talked about it later, he said there were three or 400 elephants. I know for my pictures, there were probably about 500 elephants passes. That was just my first morning, my God. Monica: [00:00:00] Well, welcome to the revelation project podcast. I'm Monica Rogers, and this podcast is intended to disrupt the trance of unworthiness and to guide women, to remember and reveal the truth of who we are. We say that life is a revelation project and what gets revealed gets healed.. Hello everyone. And welcome to another episode of the revelation project podcast today. I'm with a very special guest. Kathy Karn. Kathy is a visual storyteller, a photographer and conservationist. After 30 plus years as a trauma therapist, she instinctively sought images that reflected resilience, beauty and wholeness, she's primarily a wildlife photographer, although international travel images and people feel almost half of her image archives, the iconic animals of east Africa, particularly elephants have profoundly impacted her work nature and adventure. Refuel her spirit she's attracted to the wisdom of indigenous cultures. She loves wandering off the beaten path. The camera allows her to focus on specific gestures, connection, or implied story. When she travels to make pictures, she pushes through her natural shyness seeking more. Differences and barriers melt away and curiosity and wonder rain. She hopes her images are a reminder that there is goodness and beauty in the world. She believes people and nature are inextricably linked. She's horrified by the degradation of the environment and the threat to our planet. Photography is a way of seeing. Which can teach and inspire people to care. When we care, we're more inclined to protect. If her stories and images inspire readers to take steps towards making the world a better place than she feels, she's made a meaningful contribution like David Attenborough. She believes if we take care of nature, Nature will take care of us. When we save wild places, we save ourselves when she's not traveling. She's at home with her husband in London, Ontario, Canada, or on the shores of the Georgian bay, the sixth great lake. She's grateful for family and friends. They are the wind beneath her wings. Creativity is an essential daily practice and there is much to celebrate in her life. Welcome, Kathy. Kathy: [00:02:52] Thanks Monica. It's just a real pleasure to be here. Monica: [00:02:56] Likewise, I am so, so happy. And for our listeners. Kathy. And I did a couple of writing classes together, right, Kathy. Like it wasn't just one class. It was a couple. Yeah. I will raise my hand and say that I was a less than consistent participant, but I forgive myself for that. Kathy: [00:03:17] Well, when you showed up, it was stunning and we, I just felt totally connected to you. You're an amazing writer, just an extraordinary writer. And I look forward to your book cause I know it's coming. Monica: [00:03:27] Oh, it is coming. It is coming. I often talk about feeling 10 months pregnant it's ah, and also reading your intro. It was just occurring is so lyrical, so beautiful. So I'm hoping that your writing has continued. Has it. Kathy: [00:03:46] It has my, if, if you're 10 months pregnant, what's the metaphor I would do. So I'm seven months pregnant and it's like, everything has stopped, but you know, when you're pregnant, you know, it's still just stating, you know, it's coming along. Uh, even when, sometimes it feels like. Well, my shape is changing, but I don't really know what else is happening. So, Monica: [00:04:08] Yeah, it's great for, for, for, for delivering a book, it's just an experience unlike any other. And if there's not an opportunity for self love here, I don't know what is an opportunity because it's like I'm on myself all day long. You know, like the shooting you should be writing right now, you should, you know, all that stuff and just being like, shh. It's okay. Where you got that constant Kathy: [00:04:40] dance though? Isn't it? It is, it is a constant dance. I originally thought I would have a book in my hands in may 20, 21. Oops. Like right. This is May, 2021. And the book is not in my hands yet. Monica: [00:04:58] No it's underway. That's right. I, um, I recently interviewed Brynna Haynes, who is actually my book coach. And I've had someone else who is similar in that arena. Say to me, Monica might take you 10 years and it's like, no, right. Because it feels so big, right? Like what I want to say and all of it. But if I just remember right here right now in this moment and have my notebook near me and just write down the thoughts and trust that they'll come out in these bite-size revelations. Yeah. You know, then, then it all, even if I'm just doing that little two sentences a day, even that. Feels better than nothing. Kathy: [00:05:45] Absolutely. Yeah. I loved that podcast. The podcast you did with Brynna was very helpful for me. Monica: [00:05:52] Was it? Oh, I'm so glad to hear that. Great. Yeah, it's great. It's fascinating. How many incredible people there are doing incredible work in the world. And I find Kathy that. We tend to, celebritize so many people, but in doing that, we don't hear the voices of people who are doing such important work that. Haven't necessarily made mainstream celebrity status, but have so much to offer. Right. Kathy: [00:06:23] Right. And I believe in the, you know, that we can all do something we can all make change. Absolutely. And that, uh, you know, Margaret Mead's quote about it's the grassroots folks who wanted at a time when they've really created change. Overtime. There's just so many examples and that keeps me going. Cause I think one little old lady in Ontario, Canada, what am I doing? Yeah. But we can all win. We can all do things. And in this, this realm of, of conservation that I'm stepping into now I'm fascinated to see. People around the world from, you know, your neighbor. Who's so conscientious about recycling, everything they do or making healthy choices for the planet and how they're shopping. It's like, oh, there is a big movement going away here. These disaster stories. There's lots of good stuff happening out there. There is. It's exciting. Monica: [00:07:19] There is I'm, uh, I'm feeling that and seeing that too, cause it, it can be very easy, but also very deceiving to see the negative because it tends to be what the media, what, what gets amplified is kind of that fear. But when you really get more quiet you and start to really notice, you can see. Incredible things happening everywhere. Kathy: [00:07:50] Yeah. Yeah. And we have to be vigilant. We ha we can't be complacent. So it's an interesting dance between keeping the fierce nerve ignited and trusting that each of us is enough. Monica: [00:08:06] Yeah. That each of us is enough. And knowing that we each have what, what we said before, like that unique gift that. Very worthy gift to bring the world that only we can give that only we can bring. So, which of course brings me to really want to introduce my listeners to your work because. Experiencing your work and getting related to what you were up to as you journeyed through your imagery, your photography, your love of elephants. I came to understand this whole other aspect of what you were up to. And how that was showing up for you in all these different ways. And, and of course, then there's the whole column conversation about elephants themselves and what they're teaching you. And so I wondered if you could talk a little bit about just, what, what started you on that journey and what, what it's revealed for you? Kathy: [00:09:16] You know, I was one of those kids who loved to dive into images and stories about wildlife, particularly African wildlife. So Sunday night, Disney. What did they call it in those days? Monica: [00:09:33] Omaha's Wild kingdom or something? Yeah. Kathy: [00:09:35] Well, but Disneyland. Yeah. In particular, whenever it was stories of Africa and, you know, elephants and lions and the savannas, I loved that. And my parents had a book about, um, the Adamson's the things couple who raised two orphan, uh, lions, the whole started the whole born free and I was intrigued. So. 2010, when I had an opportunity and an invitation to go to Africa actually surprises me that I hadn't gone sooner, but that's just, anyway, the opportunity came. It took me a millisecond to say, yes, I was working with a colleague and we used to run summer personal retreats. And he said, do you want to take our program to Africa? It's like, yeah, it was that fast, of course. And stepping in at age 60. Flying across the world, literally. And then our first stop was at a giraffe orphanage in Nairobi, and there's a platform. So you go up a platform and you're actually at an eye level with the giraffe and these drafts come up and they sort of, it's an education center as well as a conservation center. And he said, if you put this little pellet in your mouth, that you can kiss that you're at. So that I keep a picture of this and he said, just, just lean out and they have a long time and they'll just take it. So I did that and giraffe came up to me with the whiskery nose and this big, long tongue swept across my face. And so the pallet and I, that part of me that used to watch Disney land and look at those pictures. Was 100% present. I was instantly in a millisecond totally in love. I couldn't kiss enough giraffes. You know, people were horrified and it's like, finally, it's time to go. Do you have to get back on the bus? You're like just one last kiss. Just one. That's just so it's, it's interesting. Cause I think this is possible in life. Sometimes things just line up and up. Part of yourself that is either undiscovered or fast asleep, the divine part of yourself gets woken up. And that's exactly what happened in that moment. So that was the beginning of a story. And I went back, uh, for the next four consecutive years I was working, uh, we were, co-leading taking adults to work with it NGO. So we were on the ground in rural Kenya. And, uh, working with the people which were, which was just so powerful and delightful. I mean, you don't go to east Africa without going on safari. I mean, really. So the end of each of those work experiences with an opportunity to go on safari, which was like, it was like a dream come true for me. And I've traveled around the world. I've had fabulous opportunities to travel. I loved to travel, but there was a hook. Uh, there's a saying, I haven't got it exactly. But Africa gets under your skin. And there's a thought to the, you know, the saying is when you land in Kenya, they say to you caribou, which means welcome, welcome home, the origin of our species. And I don't know if that resonates in my brain back through the thousands of years there. I know I'm not the first been totally hooked and engaged. And it was interesting because after four years of traveling to Kenya, my husband said, okay, you know, like that's enough. Been there, done that, which, you know, I've done in terms of traveling to other places. And I stayed away for, I don't know, four years, I guess, that we response for, you know, young girls through high school. And I said, graduation, I have to go. So I went and he said to me, enjoy yourself. You know, I'm, I'm done. I love it, but I don't need to go back. And then another door opened and I had, uh, I went for graduation and I also had a week. On my own alone. And then a week when I was hooking up my photography mentor and going on a photography Safara safari, and I realized I just wanted to explore different parts of the country, which I did. And I discovered I'm not their whole level of it being in the country, being up close and personal with a guy on the ground is like, Oh, it doesn't get old. It just gets better. The magic just gets richer and gets deeper. Monica: [00:14:39] I love that I'm experiencing or resonating with what you're saying. Like, there's this idea about this lingering longer by yourself? Like allowing your. Soul your curiosity, your wonder to direct you and. And that your husband, you know, it was okay. Like he was right. He was complete. And yet you were giving yourself permission to open up new doors into discovery and allowing yourself to have a separate adventure. And Kathy: [00:15:21] that came with its own challenges. Guilt. How dare I, uh, the way I travel in Africa, it's expensive, you know? Yeah. Use the family money, leave him alone. What if, and of course my imagination can run away with all kinds of. Catastrophes that could happen and this blessing thing, goodness. And support go. And that's, what's another one of those split second moments. So it's like I'm out of here Monica: [00:15:52] Right before, before either of us changes our minds. Right. That's right. Kathy: [00:15:57] For that inner critical voice that says, oh, you're so selfish or whatever. Yeah. Gains ground or my fear gains ground. And it was. Amazing. Monica: [00:16:09] What are the benefits Kathy, of being selfish in this way? Kathy: [00:16:17] Well, I know in terms of feedback, he says it's okay. Cause you always come back so filled up and so charged and so full. That, uh, you know, he delights in my delight. The benefits directly to me are that on the inside of the story is there's an incredible freedom to have no responsibilities. I'm a mom, I've been a therapist I've been taken care of. You know, I've come through that, that road of service to allow the world. It just gives back. Times 10 in my experience and doors opened for me, you know, I met individuals that I'm still in touch with. The animals, spoke to me in ways that I couldn't have done, unless I'd had all that space around me. I usually arrive exhausted because I'm a go goer and do a lot and it takes traveling. It seems halfway around the world. And being alone in a tented cabin in rural Kenya to really allow me to feel my exhaustion, to heal, to rest, to listen to spirit in ways that I can't, when I'm in the fast lane and to shift, to change, to Monica: [00:17:50] Change. You said something to that? I. I often am reminding myself of and reminding my clients of, and it's this idea of that investing in ourselves. We often think, who am I right to spend our money or, and cycle, what the hell do we even make the money for them? Right. And this other piece that's so true about. Making it's like what a return on investment. When we think about money and looking at smart ways to spend money, there is nothing that compounds interest more than aligning that funding with your soul, with your soul's purpose and with your soul's need to. Discover and reveal the more. And that's exactly what you said in your bio, right. Is like that permission to, I forget how you said it, but to the more yeah. And. I love too, that your husband notices that then you're giving from your overflow when you come back, when you return. And there is this I've been listening actually to a podcast. That's been really hard at times to listen to, but also incredibly beautiful and it's breaking down patriarchy. And for our listeners, I'm going to say this as well. It's Amy McPhee. Olive vest, I think is her last name alabaster. I can't remember, but anyway in it, and Kathy, you'd appreciate this. She's not only is she reviewing. The origins of patriarchy, which bring up all of these ways we've been conditioned in society to be in the fast lane is something that you said and how dare I spend. Like, there's a way that we've kind of been conditioned to think about. Serving everybody else and leaving ourselves as women last, but in this podcast, she's going over the essential texts that have been written by women over history. And one of them is a room of one's own. The, and I think that that was. Virginia Wolf trying to remember if that's the right author, a room of one own. Kathy: [00:20:30] I don't think it was, but I remember reading it when my marriage was falling apart, back in the eighties. Yes. Okay. Just even the title is enough taking the title is enough. We'll sort of the other people can hook up the author or the title. When I read that title, it went. Oh, oh, oh my goodness. Yeah, the magnetic appeal just of the thought at that time, I had my bear, she crashed, I had two children under four and a bunch of animals in a barn. Like the wheels had just fallen off everything. And somebody said to me once, why do you do that? And I said, I feed right by David's like feed the baby to the barn, feed all the animals come back. Monica: [00:21:20] Right. Kathy: [00:21:20] Actually the kids for lunch, it was like this endless day of feeding and just that vision of my own. Oh, that would take me. Yeah. Yeah, that would be awesome. Monica: [00:21:32] Like what a novel. Yeah. And also this, this, just to have your own space, to think, to be, to realize yourself, right? Like that actually that is a birthright. It's a, it's a, it's a need that. It, it just, it seems so simple. And yet it's such a really challenging concept for so many women to get their heads around again, because of the guilt, the guilt of like doing the thing that I wanted to now. Get really curious about the elephants and talk to you more about all of, all of it, like, right. I know that there's so much to talk about. And of course we, we do not have to get it all in one episode, we can. Revisit this, but I, I love what you've been doing and the work you've been doing. And of course, you're working on your own book that we'll dive more into your work and your discoveries of being with elephant. Kathy: [00:22:39] Well, it's a great segue from my room of one zone is when I am alone in Kenya, at least for the past few years when I've gone. Being in a room like that in a different territory outside of your, my daily life. Outside of my responsibilities, it's like the veil or I go through a portal into another room. Where I'm just kind of innocent eyes wide, open what's coming, and it's extraordinary what comes. So in my exploration of Kenya, I have, I've made a connect with elephants. I had, there's sort of a, we're at a fork in the road, but let me go down to this one in 2019. My mother was dying. I, we knew her death was imminent and my birthday was in June and she gave me a check for $2,000 for a birthday present. And I looked at her and I said, oh mom, this is a very generous gift. I know exactly what I'm going to use it for. I'm going to take this money. And when I'm in Kenya next year planned a trip for January, 2020. I will go to Amboseli. Which is an region in Southern Kenyon on the Tanzanian border border, where the largest, the big, the elephants, their epigenetic pool, they, the largest tasks in the world. They're known as the big Tuskers. So I've met elephants in the mass Semara and I've met elephants in. Kenya. And I've been fostering orphan elephants for over 10 years, but I wanted to see these elephants. These were the ones that, in terms of any concern about poaching, there was a handful, literally a handful 20 big Tusker elephants, tusks that touch the ground. Wow. If you can imagine that we're the ambassadors, you know, for anti-poaching for trying to raise awareness in the world. And she died in that August. And I went to Kenya in January, 2020. And I said, I sent a note to my travel agent. I said, I want to go to Amboseli. He said, oh, you should go here. I said, I have three days. He said, you should go here. Uh, and I said, okay. He wrote back and he said, they're not. That lodge is booked. So we're on, I'm on my screen and I just opened the map of region and I see this lodge called Towey lodge, and I put my finger on it. I'm talking to him. I don't know, one place from the next. And I said to him, how about Towey lodge? He said, can you change your dates? I said, no, I can't. So, cause I had other plans, so he's wrote back and he said, you're booked. The day before I, I was coming from Northern Kenya to fly to Amboseli. I get a frantic email from him saying everybody on the plane, when you're flying around rural Kenya, you fly on small street, 12 seater planes. Everybody on the plane is canceled so far link. Doesn't take solo passengers. I'm afraid they may, they may charge another seat. I'm trying to do the best I can. What do you want me to do? And I know enough. From my life experience. I have been around a few decades now. It's like, if you're following a dream, there will always be something that shows up to challenge. Are you serious? And I said, do your best, how cool me solo flight. So solo flight, you know, and I just felt the call to go. I knew I needed to go and sure enough, I was afraid the plane was going to be canceled. I had a 45 minute wait in the terminal and this guy comes up to me and he says, are you Kathy Karn? I said, yes, I am. He said, you're our VIP pass. So there's little old me. Get on the plane. These two pilots fly me down to Amboseli. And the plane lands. There's one track and one guy underneath one tree. This is the, this is the airport and I get out and he introduces himself and says, hello, my name is Julius Phili pili. I'm your guide. I said, awesome. So nice to meet you Julius. And he throws me, they use these fabulous vehicles, Toyota land cruisers that can travel anywhere. They're wide open. So as a photographer, you don't have anything to get in the way, throws my stuff in the back of the truck. And he says, would you like to meet Tim? Tim? Tim is the name of the big Tusker he's the famous elephant. So imagine like going to Yosemite to see a bit a particular bear. And when you park your car, there he is. Someone says, there he is. You know, I know about Tim he's. He was 50 years old and photographers chased him through hundreds of square kilometers, tried to get a glimpse of him. So I was just gobsmacked. I said, yes. And frantically I'm pastored, unpacking my camera. He drove down the road. I dunno, half a kilometer, maybe a left-hand turn and under this massive tree where these five massive, big Tusker bulls hanging out. There's Tim. He practically that being at the airstrip. So within a half an hour, the reason I come had happened. So this is how curious, how interesting. It's like what next it's like? Hmm. Do I get to go? Well, whatever, anything that happens next is going to be bonus. And the next day, until, until he picked me up, we set off at about 6, 6 30 in the morning drive into the park, the largest outside of the park boundaries. And he knew that I had come to see the elephants. My travel agent had set. She wants her own driver. She wants to just come in to see the elephants. So we drove into the park and we passed a long line of tourists that were waiting outside. There was apparently shrub bushes. With some cheetahs. And so we waited and he looked at me and I said, no. And he said, he loved it. Of course I was with a guy who loved elephants. So I said, no, we're not here to see cheetah cheetah. So he cheated us. Yeah. Another day. That's another story for the elephant part on this empty, empty piece of road. And he's just said to me, I think we should wait here. So we had like a, our picnic first and we sat there and waited the Plains AmBisome is very flat area with Kilimanjaro in the background, like a postcard. And we just sat there. I mean, I trusted him. And maybe a half an hour, 40 minutes later on the horizon. I see these little bumps and I said, elephants and he, I was sitting in right behind him and the way the vehicle was, he could open the door and I could lie down on the floor of the vehicle. So I'd be nice and low. For my pictures. And I was set up with two cameras around my neck and this group of elephants came directly towards us. It was stunning and they passed us in and then another group came and then another came and then more came and over the next, I honestly don't know I was in an altered state by the time in weed, I was just in this world developments. It's like, okay, you want to see us here? We are. And I realized after, when we, when he, he and I talked about it later, he said there were three or 400 elephants. I know for my pictures, there were probably about 500 elephant passes. That was just my first morning, my God. Anyway, there was this pause sort of after, by then it was, the sun was high in the sky. It was pretty hot. And I still did my best downward dog to get out of that position on the bottom of the truck got up and I looked at him. We were kind of frozen. And I said to him, my mother died in August. It just came out of my mouth. Like out of nowhere. I know this now. I didn't know what happened then, but what, what the elephants had cracked open in me was how my grief. Had just really been frozen. I was in my busy mode, you know, settling in the state that had added that, all the things that come and it was like, they were the mourners coming to the brief and I was the briefed and it changed me. When I got later that night, when I got on a very terrible call with my, as Michael was telling the story, I couldn't stop crying. It was just so extraordinary. And from that honoring of me, that encounter, I made the transition. I had retired as a. Therapists to be with, you know, I had a very special time with my mom at the end of her life, and I didn't know what was coming next. The elephants helped me cross that transition. The same time they were coming to me was when Australia was on fire, billions of animals were being burned alive. It was. Horrific. And I felt like I found their grief. If they honored mine, there's something about elephants. They know so much more than we do. And I felt like they gave me a gift and also a responsibility. And I thought, oh, I can speak for you. It's something I care about. Anyway, I've always cared about the environment and this time in my life. When I don't need to see clients and I don't need to make a certain amount of money every day or whatever, I'm free to take my creative work and channel it this way. It's, uh, it honors the gift they gave to me. And it's opening up so many new doors. Monica: [00:33:44] I don't know about you guys, but like I'm a. Mess over here. Like I wouldn't even grab a Kleenex. I'm just gonna use my sweatshirt. That is so beautiful. I mean, the, I think what really started to just there's so much here, but we were talking earlier about. Those was veils lifting. Kathy: [00:34:13] Yeah. Monica: [00:34:14] And also in my world. Right. What revelation is, is that moment when the divine reveals something to us, you know, and it's, it's in one of those ways. That we stop and say, you cannot make this up, right? Like this is a miracle, like all of it, right. The way that it all transpires is holy it's so sacred and it's so undeniable. And what I love so much about. Revelation is that it requires us to be courageous and it in Revit aspects, I think of the type of courage that requires us to get quiet, to get present and to get in touch with the truth. Of our experience. And so suddenly in that moment, like it occurred to you that you hadn't grieved, right. Kathy: [00:35:38] It didn't even occur to me. No, it's never. It's like, I didn't have that much consciousness or control. Yeah. I thought about my mother every day. Yes. I miss her still to this day. But they crack, you know, we need a numinous experience to crack through and invite and pull something else out that, uh, you know, it's like instinctively. I was following, I knew what, what I wanted and I knew it would be absolutely what I needed. I had no idea. I actually had no idea. So we go with an intention thinking it will be one thing and it never is. It's always something. Different. Monica: [00:36:31] And that's that, that other thing, you know, is the courage and the trust, right. Trusting that exactly what's here or exactly what it looks like mass and all like yes. Is, is what's required is like the perfect. Grit, so to speak that will create that Pearl moment. And it's trusting that it all belongs there in that's when that moment I think is just so beautiful. And of course, there's so much symbolism there, as you had mentioned and alluded to with the elephants and what they know and who they are and their strong, emotional. Capacity and their bonds. Kathy: [00:37:21] Yeah. And, you know, they're, they're all about matriarchs and family. And when the matriarch dies, it's a big deal. I mean, in hindsight, more of this is revealing itself to me, of course. And I think, uh, we don't always have the long view, but if you know what your next step is, And that's just the step you need to take. And that's where I am in this part of the story or the journey a month, three weeks after I got home, Tim died, totally unexpected died of a twisted gut. It was a massive loss, massive loss. And that sealed the deal, right? It's like, oh, they've had a death. They are in mourning now. This is where we are joined. These two oldsters old two-month old Cathy, you know, both elders in our communities and then COVID hit. And it's like, the deck got cleared. 2020 was to be one of my busiest travel years of my life. And suddenly there was this space and the workshop where you and I met. I, I think I joined two days. Tim died on February 4th. I think I joined the aKimbo workshop on the 6th of February 20, 20, whatever it was. And all of a sudden my world was the decks were cleared. All my responsibilities, family, whatever, you know, work, whatever else was being called, our traveling arrangements. All cleared. Yeah. And I started writing and I started processing. I mean, I would come home from travels, 6,000 pictures, and I had time to process and I had time to tell stories that have been accumulating in my heart and mind for 10 years. It's like, okay, that's what I'll do. Oh, that's where I am right now. I love Monica: [00:39:28] that. I love that. And it's so true, Kathy, like writing is such a. Processing, like it's such a digesting of all of the accumulated experiences and it allows us, I think, to start connecting those dots. That that make a story really powerful and relevant and potent, because I think too, when we share our stories is where learning is that we, we might think again, who am I? Right. Who cares? And yet, It's really not about us. It is at some level, but it's really, I think about again, trusting that whatever we're sharing is reaching someone else. That's giving them access to maybe revelation that they hadn't put together because they see themselves reflected somewhere or they see their own unconsciousness or whatever it is that kind of gets surfaced in that moment that, you know, we get to really open our hearts to somebody else's story. And I think that so much of what happened. In our group that we had, and it was a huge group, but it was like our writing group, our digital group kind of like our people found each other inside of this massive group. Right. And then it became a more intimate group inside of the group. And we suddenly realized we were all kindred spirit in some ways. And that's where, you know, starting to recognize each other by reading each other's writing, it's like, oh, these are my people. Kathy: [00:41:14] Yes. Yeah. And thank goodness. It was so ironic that there was this solo time, but also this online community, I couldn't have done it while I'm still in it. You know, I still write in community it's, um, it's a great lesson. It is a gain that I've had to learn to gain, you know, the power of community and, um, We are, we are, the human graders are pack animals too. We're a herd Monica: [00:41:43] Were a herd Kathy: [00:41:44] Herd animals and we, we need each other and we can support each other. Yeah, we sure can. Love is the thread through it all Monica: [00:41:53] Love is the thread through it all. Yes. And it's not lost on me. Of course. What you say about your. Devastation at what happens outside in the environment, right? Again, like there's that matriarch, even when I think of mother earth, right. As the great mother matriarch and how unconsciously we pillage and poach. And destroy and so much. I think of the work that you're doing of course is about telling the stories that call us back home, right. That we just like Africa in some way is our origin story and home. There's also this idea of your writing. Being bringing us back home to our hearts to remember that we're not alone, that we to bring us back into feeling the connection with the greater world, with nature, with the animals of the planet. And I love what you said in your bio about. You know, when we take care of nature, nature takes care of us and it was like, yeah, you so had that visceral experience of nature, taking care of you, of the universe, right. Showing up to show you how worthy, how connected, how symbiotic we all are. In our experience. And so, Ugh, it's just so moving and. For those of you who are listening that want to know more about Kathy's work. I highly recommend you get on her mailing list. If there's anybody's mailing list that you should be on it's hers. And I know we often talk about one more newsletter, but this is, this is different. This is the newsletter you want to read. This is Kathy: [00:44:25] Thank you, Monica. Monica: [00:44:26] This is storytelling at its finest and hearing stories and revelations about her work and the imagery tells it yet another story. So I really encourage all of our listeners to get on Kathy's mailing list. And Cathy, I know we have just a few more minutes here and of course I feel like. Wow. How did the time go so fast? I'm so grateful for what you did share with us. That story was just will honestly stick in my heart forever, but I would love to hear, you know, what, what do you want our listeners to take away from today's episode? Or what do you want to invite them to get curious about or to reveal. Kathy: [00:45:20] I think we're at a time where we have to stop putting people in the center of our planning or policy making or actions and put a nature. Cause without nature, we're all do. And I think I know this is true. We don't have to travel to Africa to experience that. So I invite people to take time for themselves. No, that it's important that they're in the quiet. One of my mentors said we can't change the fast lane that our natural pace is slow to make them. So allow yourself to put slow into your life and have a good look around and see what nature cause it's everywhere is close to you. And. How can you take care of that? Because it will take care of you and taking care of it, by the way, even just sitting and enjoying it is a way taking care of it because it changes us. I think it reminds us that we are part of a whole it's, we're not top of the hierarchy. We are a part of a circle. You're part of a system and there's much to be given. Back from that system. Many everyone will find their own way. I totally trust that. I used to say to my clients, your brain and your body knows exactly where to take you. So it's not for me to say, this is how you have to do it, but we do need to be made aware. And you can't do that when you're racing around. Monica: [00:47:08] Yeah. It's, it's a beautiful imitation. Just slow, slow. Slow down. Love that, Kathy. Thank you. Thank you for everything. Thank you for your work in the world. Thank you for your love of elephants. Thank you for your courage to travel to places so that you can come back with new discoveries for the rest of us and for our listeners. We'll be sure to put Kathy's links in the show notes and until next time. More to be revealed. Thank Kathy: [00:47:45] Thank you Monica. Kathy: [00:47:46] Thanks Kath. Monica: [00:47:51] We hope you enjoyed this episode for more information, please visit us@jointherevelation.com and be sure to download our free gift, subscribe to our mailing list or leave us a review on iTunes. We thank you for your generous listening and as always more to be revealed.