74 Sarah Hamel-Smith Sarah: And I can tell you, why plus size women are not buying it is because we have been made to believe that our bodies are transient. Okay. We have been made to believe that we do not deserve good things in life when it comes to fashion, when it comes to food, when it comes to any kind of pleasure or any kind of beauty, self-care, cosmetic thing until we lose weight. So that is what society has told us. And we have internalized that as plus size women, we are not deserving of anything that is beautiful or high quality. until so we lose that weight. And because of that, Plus size women. I'm not buying clothes for themselves because they don't believe that they were the, of looking beautiful or spending any money that they could be spending on. Cause another, another issue with plus size women is like, we over-give, because we've been told that our, we don't have any value because we have fat. So we have to like over given over achieve in order to have like a weirdly space in the world. Monica: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Revelation Project podcast. I'm Monica Rogers, and this podcast is intended to disrupt the trance of unworthiness and to guide women, to remember and reveal the truth of who we are. We say that life is a revelation project and what gets revealed gets healed. Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of the revelation project podcast. Today I'm with Sarah Hamel Smith. We're going to talk about all things, diet culture, fat phobia starving, ourselves, food, guilt, body shame. Being at war with our shape. It's its own special kind of torture. And what I've discovered is that no woman is immune to this for plus size women. What I've learned is magnify those feelings of pain by a hundred. Sarah Hamill Smith is a New York. Based TEDx presenter, plus size model storyteller and digital influencer represented by true model management. She is the co-founder of plus amplified an organization dedicated to educating and empowering those who live in plus sized bodies and serves as a catalyst for cultural and internal shifts towards size equality. After being body shamed for many years, she decided to be one of the people who changes the way beauty is defined in our society. Sarah has worked with several major fashion brands as a model motivational speaker and influencer, including Eloqua, Veronica beard, universal standard, and Tommy Hilfiger at Macy's. And she has been featured as a model and a writer in BT FL magazine. Sarah has presented at N Y U and N Y w I C I as a subject matter. Expert and influencer marketing at fit as an expert in plus size fashion has been featured on CBS news. Crane's New York speaking out about the dangers of diet culture and has modeled on good morning, America as well as an InStyle magazine as a plus size style icon. She's also been featured on billboards in times, square for New York fashion week. Hey Sarah. Sarah: [00:02:20] Hello, Monica. I'm so excited and happy to be with you this morning. Thank you so much for having me. Monica: [00:02:27] Oh, my gosh, this is just such a pleasure. And thanks. Just a little shout out to Libby for introducing us. We, we have a lot of Libby love here. Don't we? Sarah: [00:02:38] Oh, I mean the most love in the world for that beautiful, beautiful soul. God bless her Monica: [00:02:43] God. bless her, and I love this idea of like seeing yourself on billboards in times square. I mean, Oh my God, what is that like for you? Sarah: [00:02:54] Honestly, that brought up the most crazy stuff to me. You know, that whole [00:03:00] idea of like, am I good enough? It's like, how much does the universe need to show you that you're good enough for you to actually feel like you're good, right? Monica: [00:03:09] Like, right. It has, like, I always kind of love that idea of like signs that come in almost metaphorically on the billboard that have to like hit you over the head. And it's right. It's kind of like that, like, I've arrived now. There's this actual literal billboard showing me, featuring me in life-size Sarah: [00:03:31] In the center of the universe. And it's like, okay, Sarah, is this, you know, for you now to realize that you're good enough. Monica: [00:03:41] It's so great. It's you cannot make this shit up. I mean, honestly, yeah, honestly. Ah, well this is such an incredible topic and not only is it such a topic that I believe so many women can relate to, but I also just want to honor just [00:04:00] how again, the universe is. Just creates these opportunities, right? Every one of the podcast episodes that I've been able to deliver and publish has been like a missing piece of the whole conversational puzzle. And it's so great to be able to there's so many incredible conversations out there that really just. Provide so much insight. And I think brings so much healing to us as we, as women start to kind of understand that the narrative we've been given isn't the truth. Sarah: [00:04:34] Absolutely. And that deep, deep, deep trance, that deep, deep sleep of unworthiness that so many of us walk around on this planet with especially women and that we carry deep, deep, deep within our souls.That is such. A lie. Monica: [00:04:50] It's such a lie. Tell me Sarah. I wanted actually to start by asking you exactly about that for the trance [00:05:00] you tell me about what did that look like for you? Give me a little bit background. Sarah: [00:05:04] So the trends started literally with the way that my soul was born into this world, I was literally born into the trans. So I came into this world a very, very unusual circumstances. My birth mother was having an affair with a married man and she became pregnant with me. And I am from a tiny little Island in the Caribbean where everybody talks about each other and women ripped down women for like wearing a cute dress. Okay. So I just needed to set the tone and the background for that story of the bravery of my very small load to carry a child, which is such a public thing and bring me into the world into those circumstances. And it's something that I think about often when you're talking about the trans. That trance of unworthiness. I was born into that. I, my birth [00:06:00] mother was shamed terribly I'm sure. I don't know her. I never met her, but I just know the context of where I'm from. And I cannot imagine this things that people said about her and just the bravery and incredibleness of that woman to walk that path. And to bring me into the world with those circumstances surrounding her, she could have easily console me and had an abortion. And by God I would have understood because I just cannot imagine. What she went through and the strengths that she had to bring me into this world. So my soul. And so this planet in a very unusual way, and I was adopted the day that I was born by a family that wanted me and loved me and did everything that they put for me. They loved me. And that is again, the divine grace of the universe that says, you know what, you're brave enough to do something I'm going to support you. I'm going to take care of this child. So I, I was [00:07:00] born into a family of people that really, really loves me. And I grew up with a lot of love. And so it was kind of like, I always kind of felt like people would look at me funny and I always had this kind of sense of like, you don't belong here from this society that I was in in many ways, like subtle kind of energetic things, because I was always a very, very sensitive for your son, but I never understood. What that was about until I was in my early twenties. And I found out that story of, you know, so I'm assuming that probably wherever I, when people would be like, Oh, you know, that's the child as the child thing and was given up for adoption and, and, you know, it's so, and so woman had an affair and you know, the crazy thing about all of this then like the whole, the story of toxic masculinity and all of that is just like, nobody knows who this man is. And that is to me, [00:08:00] like the wildest thing in the world. It's like everybody knew her and her story and the horrible thing that she did, quote unquote. And you know, I'm assuming that this man probably sold her a lot of lies and told her a lot that he loved her and she probably needed love and believe them anyways. So, so that was, that was a trance number one. Trance number two transplant worthiness in my life came to me when I was 12 years old. I was a happy little child, a fat, happy little child as a kid. I, um, I had asthma, so my, I used to take steroids for the asthma. And of course they made my body bigger, but they saved my life. My uncle came to visit one day and he called me aside and he told me fat. I needed to lose weight and that I'm fat girls that when they go to fuck and that nobody would ever want me, or once a Miami, unless I lost weight. So I had to make sure I make it my priority to lose weight. And in my little child mind, I didn't really understand what that was, but that. I understood that I wasn't good enough. I understood that the only way that I could ever be good enough is if that man wanted me and I understood that I had to do whatever it took to make sure that I was attractive to man physically my soul, that didn't matter. The success that I had in my life did not set my credit and not some of my friends did not like none of that mattered. My only value proposition in this world was my body being attractive enough for a man to want to have sex with me and marry me. So those were my two introductions. And so the trance of unworthiness that have various significance in my life, in my adult life. Off so much pain South where all the things that we have to do doing the work. I had this crazy revelation one day. Cause I used to hate that uncle. I used to hate him. Like anytime he would come around, I would go and cry in my room. I was terrified, eats in front of him. Like I hated him. Right. And as an adult, when I was preparing for my Ted talk, I had this like crazy rabidly Shaun that PIM, as well as all my family and all the people that body shamed me, they were actually doing it out of love. Monica. They were doing it out of love because they didn't want me to grow up into the world as a fat woman and bear the burden and the pain and the suffering of everything that comes into society. When you have that thing called fat on your body. So, what I thought was punishment and what I thought was done out of hatred. And as a little girl, I internalized as the hatred, you know, I suffered a lot with body confidence issues. I was anorexic and bulimic, I suffered with eating disorders. I suffered with depression, anxiety, all kinds of wonderful things that come in and see all life. And I only realized-in my adult life that they were actually trying to protect me and all they wanted to hurt me and to conforming. And so having my body conform into what society would deem as appropriate because they believed that that would make my life back. And it's better. It's a come from someone who loves you then in the world. That's so mean and hard and awful to women who live in fat bodies or people who live in fat bodies. They can't even say that it's only one, man. It's fat is something it's like, you can be. Anything in this world, but fats, that's the message. That is, I feel like with all of this progression that we've had in society, in terms of human rights, women's rights, LGBT rights, all of these things. This is one area that it's still okay to shame people for. It's still okay to shame people for being fat, the medical, the medical society, shames people for being fat, the health society, shams people for being fat, they say, Oh, like, I'm doing it for the, a health I'm telling you these things to your health, but. At the, at the core of that, all people should not be treated as less than human beings because of the size of their bodies or their sexual orientation or any of these things. And I feel like fast is something that is missing from the equation at a deep, deep level. Monica: [00:12:29] Yeah. Yes, absolutely. Yes. And there's so much here, Sarah, like there's so much here. Thank you for sharing. You know, that just incredibly vulnerable story about that 12 year old girl. Oh my heart. And you know, I want to say that there's also that way that the. We, we can see when we get older and we start this awakening process. So we can see where the trance showed up, where like you so eloquently pointed to those two areas. Right. It was like, there was that legacy that you were born into that legacy of shame that started really in the womb. And, and that of course is very much a part of our DNA, like very much a part of our cellular experience and that there was something that as a young child, you didn't understand, but that came more into your awareness as you started recognizing, and then hearing the story finally about your birth mother. The, the other thing that you were pointing to is of course, how society continues to kind of hold that trance and place. Because there are, it's on a rare occasion, right? That we're born into a family of an already awakened woman, which again, I want to point out is very rare where she's being the counter voice of that trance. But most of us actually grow up in a culture and in a society, in a neighborhood, in a family that really reinforces those messages. And. What you pointed to. And I think this place that you got to, which ultimately is a place of forgiveness, where you actually had that revelation about your uncle, really doing that as a, as a means of love in the, in the best way. He knew how to protect you. And, and also to honor that you actually, that you actually were. Able to forgive him and set him free because in doing that, of course, you set your own self free. It's just so beautiful. And Sarah, the other piece that I just think is so profound is of course having watched your Ted talk, there were so many other revelations that came up for you around when you really started to dive into this. When you really started to get curious about why is this such a thing. Right. And what is the truth and what is your truth? What, what came up and I know like, feel free right to, I know this is emotional. Sarah: [00:15:11] Ooh. There's so many things. Yeah. I have this very vivid memory. I. When I was a teenager, my mom wanted me to have braces and I didn't want braces. I hate them. I thought that they were stupid. I didn't have a problem with my face on my smile and I, I didn't want them. And they forced me to get these braces. So I wore the braces and suffered through them for about two years. And my graduation was coming up and I did not want to have to wear braces for my graduation. So every time we went to the dentist, you would do orthodontists. You would tell him, you will seek them out next time. We'll take them on next time. And one day I went home. And this is going to sound absolutely insane. I went home and I took a pliers, you know, like appliers that you use to like, do work around the house? Yeah. I didn't even wash it. I took it and I broke every single bracket in my mouth and my mother was horrified. She was horrified like, cause she had, meanwhile had spent thousands and thousands of dollars to get me these teeth. Right. And she was mortified. Uh, she did know, and God bless my mother because I am not an easy person. So God bless her for like, having this like wild woman capitalist of a child, because it's not, it's not an easy thing to do as a model when you don't have the language for it to understand what this madness is when you have a child. Like, so. We went to the orthodontist and it was kind of funny because it was like a very religious orthodontist, Monica: [00:16:54] I'm sorry, as if it's not bad enough. Yeah. Sarah: [00:16:57] It was like, he was like Presbyterian and he would like play this. No, no. She would play this like crazy, like really, really intense Jesus' music. Every time that we went there and this man, he's a very nice man. I mean, he really was, so God bless them. Anyway, I walked in there and my mother had explained on the phone what had happened. But they weren't prepared for my, Monica: [00:17:24] Oh my God. Sarah: [00:17:25] And um, everybody in the office looked at me like I was a complete lunatic and I lay there on the chair and you're moved my braces. And today I have crooked teeth and I am a plus size model. My teeth are crooked and Monica. I love my f-ing teeth. Okay. Monica: [00:17:50] Oh my. I just love the metaphor. It's just the, the idea of again, you just braces, right. And what they represent and this idea of. This painful way to conform in all the ways that we are forced inside of this box. And you just being like, um, get me the friggin pliers. I am so done with this cage that the metaphorical cage on your teeth was just, you were like, no, no, you know, just no. And, and yeah. You know, again, to, to God bless her mothers, right. That in so many ways, I think, you know, the strength of their daughters and just allowing that spirit or trying to cope with the spirit of. Uh, what we were bringing into the world and wanting to really break all of these invisible fences and not so invisible fences to really speak for our own freedom to demand it and to have that also simultaneously be lonely confusing,upsetting, because as the one, cause I can relate so much to what you're talking about. Like there's so many ways that. I almost to escape the conforming that I would almost over amplify that, right? Like it was sent in. There was such a ferocity in me that would come up such a fierce. No, and I would act out in all of these different ways as a, as a child. And it sounds like we're kindred spirits in that way, you know, which doesn't surprise me, Sarah: [00:19:32] uh, madness. Somehow. I see the madness does take yo. It's like a madness overcomes you. And you're just like, I cannot do this anymore. Okay. Monica: [00:19:42] I know. I con I know. And, and there is an actual fury to it. Yeah. There's a real fury to it. And I think because it just, it continually kind of stomps on that value of belonging to ourselves, of being allowed to be who we really are. And it. And, and so again, there's this way that this incredible spirit is born into this bigger than life personality. And I love all of the synergy here because of course it would take that kind of a fierce personality to take on what you're up to in the world, which is about really disrupting the way culture continues to. Propagate these lies around what beauty really is and this standard of beauty. And so I want to go into this a little bit more because I know that you see this the way that media and society continues to perpetuate this trance in such horrible ways. And there are so many industries that this can show up. Inside of, and I'd just love for you to speak to a few of those, if you don't mind. Sarah: [00:21:03] Sure. I have two, one is a recent story and one is like a big industry plus size industry stories. So I'll start with the big industry story. So the trance in the plus size industry, 68% of women in North America are a size 14 and above. So let's think for a minute about how many people that is. Okay. 68% of women in North America. So a lot of plus size. Well, because those women have been historically completely excluded from the fashion industry ever since day one. We've just been like excluded or not given anything to wear. So that's, so that's one, cause you know, basically our bodies are like, riskless. To society. So it's like that they're not going to want to like, spend any money on themselves, which is Monica: [00:21:49] So, which is wait, finish that sentence. Sarah: [00:21:53] Well, which is ridiculous in my opinion. Yes. So, okay. So a lot of like a lot of, companies fashion companies are owned by wealthy white men. And they've started to look at the numbers recently because of the outpouring of requests from plus-sized women. Hey, like, Hey, we want clothes. Like we actually don't needs ourselves, like some of us and whatever. So. They've been popping up with all of these different fashion brands that are selling plus size clothes, which then a little while later ended up closing, because they're saying that plus size women are not buying and like, you know, with COVID industry's not doing well. And I can tell you, why plus size women are not buying it is because we have been made to believe that our bodies are transient. Okay. We have been made to believe that we do not deserve good things in life when it comes to fashion, when it comes to food, when it comes to any kind of pleasure or any kind of beauty, self-care, cosmetic thing until we lose weight. So that is what society has told us. And we have internalized that as plus size women, we are not deserving of anything that is beautiful or high quality. until so we lose that weight. And because of that, Plus size women. I'm not buying clothes for themselves because they don't believe that they were the, of looking beautiful or spending any money that they could be spending on. Cause another, another issue with plus size women is like, we over-give, because we've been told that our, we don't have any value because we have fat. So we have to like over given over achieve in order to have like a weirdly space in the world. So for example, like a plus size woman, Would quick up spend $300 on something for her children or something for her man or something. So her friend then she would on herself. So I have been behind this charge of like, it's not about just creating clothing for plus size women. It is about creating a shift in pop culture and creating a change. And the deeper roots of it all that helps plus-size women to recognize that they are worthy of having beautiful things. Now, they’re worthy the of taking care of themselves in this body that they're in and like a lot of plus size women. Some of them maybe grew up thin and then after they had children put on weights. So there's also that added layer of like body shame. And they're like, what the hell is this body that I'm in and have a had this body before? Like, you know, and I, I hate sets and I have to lose weights and I have to stop and I have to punish myself because like, you know, on and on and on and on and on. But. Basically like all the work that I do and continue to evolve an intensive group is about shifting that trance of unworthiness for plus sized women and helping them to recognize that they are a hundred percent worthy and good of wearing beautiful clothes right now of eating delicious food right now of using lovely expensive products. Right now, because the thing is. When you invest in yourself and when you give to yourself, you have so much more to give to the world. You have so much more to share with the world. And if you're saying that like you would rather give to somebody else than spend that money on yourself, you're going to have less and less and less to give because you are going to become more and more and more angry and resentful and pleated. Monica: [00:25:42] Yeah. I mean, I honestly like I'm sitting here really identifying the fact, Sarah, that. We all have a relationship to this weight pressure, this, this thing. And if I really. There's an episode that I recorded recently and I had really started to, uh, I haven't read the book yet, but the body is not an apology. I don't know if you've that's big on my Sarah: [00:26:12] table. I haven't read it yet, but it's on my table. It's my next in line Monica: [00:26:16] Feeling. That's going to be a huge one because I think every woman who's listening to this. Has some kind of self loathing body relationship issue. And, and this feels so important and so tragic to me because, because if we cannot feel safe and at home in our own bodies, where the hell can we feel safe, where the, how Sarah: [00:26:46] Can we feel safe? And, you know, it's kind of like women. In general, just like we give away way too much of ourselves. On a regular basis in relationships and we get, so little all in return. And I mean, this goes is like so much for the, like, you can, you can see it when it comes to like the way that women have paid women have paid. I think it's like 70 cents on the dollar of man. I mean, it just like it goes on and on and on, and it like expands in so many ways, but it comes from this like deep, deep belief that we are unworthy that our bodies are and where the society just kind of teaches us. That's we it's like we’re taught to them, destroy and attack each other, instead of realizing that, like everything that we're trying to pose, we actually have within ourselves and all of this. Just points. Like it's like the whole world is telling you, if you lose weight, then you'll be good and worthy. If you have a man you will be good and worthy. And you're making all of this money, then you'll be good and worthy. And the. Most insane thing is that you don't have to do anything to be good and worthy, you start at good and worthy and so many women plus-sized straight sized. And I would even say people, men that have feminine aspects to themselves have caught by this, this very, very deep, very, very damaging trans and that starting. At good unworthy, then just feeds into so many other things. When you, when you really believe that you're good. And whereas you don't accept garbage from people, you invest in yourself. And, you know, everything that we're taught just tells us to do the complete opposite. There's so many people that walk around on this planet, who from the outside have this insane material and every other kind of success. They have the perfect looking family. They have perfect healthy children. They have thriving careers then making all of this money and they show the world that's like, perfect. Perfect looking light and people are jealous of them, but they have this crazy deep longing and this pool and this vacuum inside of them, that sucks their ability to like actually enjoy any of that. Exactly. Because they don't feel like that with it. And I, I had a wet experience on Saturday. I was sitting down in this beautiful restaurants in Manhattan with my, with some friends and we were drinking margaritas and having a beautiful time. And I started to feel like I don't deserve this life. So even me, someone who spends my life preaching and talking about this and. Working on myself, 24 seven. I was sitting there on Saturday. With this deep, deep feeling of, I don't deserve to have this goodness in my life. So this thing runs deep. Monica: [00:30:05] It runs really deep. And part of this, I would say is part of this is the human condition we forget. We do forget. And we are constantly needing to remind ourselves. But without that inner voice of love, we cannot remember the truth of who we are. And I think that that's one of the things that you're pointing to that becomes this, the seed that, you know, that really kind of grows that practice and which is where we start to really exercise that muscle of personal risk. Not responsibility, but personal empowerment, empowerment, and approval. Because one of the things that you were talking about, which is so important is this idea of. That our adult identity that we're somehow continually defined by the outside world. And the truth is that we cannot allow the outside world to define us, or we will never, ever, ever be happy because where we have to learn to be. Allowed to be who we are is from the inside out. And you were just saying as well, that there's, this there's this way that you can look, everybody can look like they've achieved it. Like the it girl or the it people who are out there and have this. Pretty picture life, except that when you learn and when you get an opportunity to really know those people, there's something that shows up. That's like, Oh my gosh, like we're all suffering in this way because we're all out there performing in a way that society and culture tells us that we need to be. And the thing is it's like, when are we going to get that? This is kind of this matrix, this trance that we're all kind of caught inside of. And that the only way out is in is by going in. And, and so it shows up in all these crazy ways. And the bottom line is that our identity is not this body. Our identity is not our size. Our identity is the ego and our true self. The truth of who we are is the essence that has no physical form, right. Is that spirit, that soul and what we're here to really do and accomplish. And that's that sense of fulfillment that like nothing from the outside world is ever going to give us? Yes, Sarah: [00:32:37] Absolutely not. And this is something else that I wanted. So talk about, this was a second thing. Again, it starts with a little story. So I've been vaccinated. Can I get an amen? Okay. So, Monica: [00:32:50] Well, I was like, margarita is in Manhattan. Sarah: [00:32:54] Yeah. I've been, I've been vaccinated, said praise, praise them. Be for that. So a couple of weeks ago, one of my friends had a birthday party on their roof top and it was the first time that I had been out in public with people that I didn't know. And throughout the nights throughout the course of, and it was like a proper party.So you're like overlooking the city outs in Brooklyn, TJ like lots of people everybody's out the weather, beautiful, like really, really very special evening. And throughout the night I was approached by about five different men that came up to me, wanting to talk to me and flirt and say what they have to see the second I mentioned my husband, or I mentioned that I was married. They all just skated away and skates it away into the ether.. So the next morning, I was thinking about it at a very deep level, because I've been doing a lot of South work in terms of the place of like the defined feminine and toxic masculinity and kind of understanding that balance of like male and female energy and how, you know, the patriarchy and all the things that's been like impacting men and the way that men act and all these different things. So bringing it back to the story. I was, I was thinking about the fact that. The way that most men operates in the world is that they have no interest in knowing a woman unless they can fuck her, unless they have access to her vagina. They have no interest in any thing else about to about her soul. And. I have a lot of young friends that are single, and I see them get into these situations over and over again, where they are just being hurt and used by men over and over again. And it makes me feel sick and it breaks my heart because these women are some of the most beautiful, gentle, kind, wonderful evolves human beings, ever. And just knowing them as a friend is such a great honor, far less. Being given access to the intimacy to have sex with them, or to have access to that pots of this souls in that, in that act. And again, talking about the trans and toxic masculinity, it is just so rampant right now. It is just so active and you know what? It's not so filling men either. It's not making men happy either. And. It is just so damaging to women. It is so destructive and damaging to women. Monica: [00:35:36] It is. And you know, I go back to it's reminding me of what you were talking about earlier with respect to a woman's eligibility. Sarah: [00:35:45] Can you say that again? I'm sorry. I missed that part. Monica: [00:35:47] What you were saying earlier about a woman's eligibility for marriage. And again, it's like, it's this, I always say we live in this very superficial world. Like we're living on the, on the surface of life. And again, there's this what I would call kind of hidden agreement that. That the only way that a man can be really interested in you is for some kind of romantic reason that somehow men and women can't be able to draw from, be in awe of be inspired by being relationship with women. On that soul level without necessarily needing to have that be about a sexual relationship, but we've all been conditioned to be in this agreement about how women and men hang out. But to your point, it's like you were able to immediately mention your husband and you would think like, well, what wouldn't. Why wouldn't then the gentleman that you were speaking to be like, Oh, tell me more about your husband. What does he do to kind of like what, like to me as a woman, cause that's obviously also something I think we're all familiar with. Why does that somehow just change the dynamic right there Sarah: [00:37:03] And make me make me garbage and make me no longer anything about me. Worthy of interacting with Monica: [00:37:11] right. Cause you're somehow some man's like, right. There's also that kind of like assumption, like, Oh, you belong to somebody and therefore it's just bizarre. It's again, that cultural conditioning that is, is very much a part of the trance, but I'm so glad that you brought it up because I don't think we've ever talked about that on the podcast and how, again, the trans shows up in. So many different ways. And I love this lens though, Sarah, that you're bringing to women from a size perspective, because there's a way that I think we can all relate to the conversation. And then there's another way that plus size women are left. I think too. Somehow, and I want to say all women, but I also don't want to at all, invalidate what you're bringing, because there is a special exquisite pain I think, to yes, to continually being, because I've seen this pain show up in so many different ways through friends of mine who. Have shown me another way to look at it. And it's literally like existing in a world that continually invalidates you by what they glorify in imagery. And so I get chills because I think about your beautiful body, your beautiful soul up on that billboard and that being such. And I, and I want to, I just want to remind all of us, we're listening. We talk a lot about the goddess and the goddess. If you were to like, look back at like, Willendorf okay. If you were to, there's a reason that we study mythology and there's, and I, I always. Point women to mythology and archetypes, because there's so much to learn because there's allegorical stories that we have more to learn about our soul development by studying those myths and those legends. And so if you look back at, at Willendorf, for example, you saw this voluptuous big. Fully embodied, fully permissions woman who was the goddess. I mean, she was all about the nurturing, the mother earth. The there's a way that we, and this is how fickle we are in this society because Sarah, wasn't it. You who you and I were trading images of Barbies throughout the years. Sarah: [00:39:53] Yeah, I did that in my, in that, well, I, in my Ted talk, I had those pictures of all of the bobbies and all the madness, but I don't think we have the conversation about Barbies transformation. Monica: [00:40:03] Okay. But this is, this is a great point. I think I might've seen it. Recently, and I think I tagged you in it. I don't know if you saw it, but it was an image of Barbies. And now it's, it sounds like maybe I got that original idea from your Ted talk and then I was paying attention to it, but that the waist size, the breast size, it all changed through the seventies, eighties, nineties, and above it's. Oh, just suddenly, like this is in fashion and now women are taking out their ribs in order for their wastes to be small enough. Sarah: [00:40:34] Can I bring something you're talking about? Talking about ribs. It's like Mon gave us our rep and now we're giving him our rib. Monica: [00:40:42] Well, and that's, that's that story? That's again, the story that we somehow, as birthers of the world came from a rib. I mean, give me a frigging break. Okay. First of all, but yes, to that point, I mean, it's kind of ironic. So I'm just going to call bullshit on that patriarchal story, because this is the kind of stuff we're talking about. But this is how we become entranced as young girls. When we're told stories, especially by adults. And we hear that this is the ancient book, you know, that's the end all be all. And it's brought into our lives in a literalist way. We are taught to believe from a very early age that somehow the shame of the world is on our shoulders. As women that as Eve, you know, I mean, we can go all the way back to the story of Eden and how Eve was the temptress that dirty whore, you know, right from the beginning. And it's like, it's such a load of bullshit. And I'm not saying that the, these mythologies have allegorical importance. But what I am saying is that the literal interpretation is bullshit. Sarah: [00:41:55] And, you know, just this whole idea of like women not being allowed to have pleasure, literally controlling a woman's body is. A way of controlling here from having pleasure do not eat that delicious chocolates do not have a sugary cocktail with your friends. Do not eat that French fries. Okay. Do not enjoy food, do not enjoy your body's feelings. That feel good, Monica: [00:42:28] Right? I mean, these are all of the ways that women have been. Controlled. I mean, this is this, and this goes way, way, way back. And it's something that we all fall for. We've all been buying it and I love that hashtag not buying it right, because, and there are organizations out there like. Um, misrepresentation. I think it was originally, that was the name of it. I don't know what it is now, but it's so important for us as women to point to these bullshit things and speak truth to it because, Sarah: [00:43:04] But I, I need to say something Monica, and we're talking about points thing. When you points, uh, I just need, so share a word of caution , so you out there that like doing this work, get ready to have gasoline poured onyour head. And be lit on fire. Monica: [00:43:20] Oh yeah, Sarah: [00:43:21] Because that's something that I. Went through when I decided that I wants to come to New York city and I wants to do this week and I wanted to help empower women and help empower plus size women and starts talking about fat. Isn't a bad word and tell all these stories about the horrible ways that plus-size people have been treated in society. I mean, people didn't like to have, they didn't like hair and the way that they broke broke me down. And broke down so many other people, they didn't like hearing that. And I mean, talk about lights, And someone on fire. You know what I'm saying? Like, I felt like I was being dragged through the mud from everywhere, everywhere. Monica: [00:44:05] Well, and, and that's that what I call the forging. So where are these fierce fiery beings and how we're forged into that? The strength of our being is when we got very, very clear and so. This work, as we know is not for the faint of heart, because it goes against, and it can make people very, very, very uncomfortable. And we know from doing this work, that the reason people are so adamantly defending and denying is because then they would have, if they were to listen, then they would have to look at their own shadows and do their own work. And that is sometimes too much to ask. And I still am going to invite people to try it on it. Doesn't have to be true for you, but, you know, as a woman who is. Not been a plus size. I have been somebody who had babies and a thyroid, a hypo thyroid issue, and was, had packed on weight and felt that same like amount of self-loathing and shame. I don't think you can measure self-loathing I think you either self-love or you don't, and it's this idea that at some point here, All of us, get a chance to step into another person's shoes and see how the world is impacting them. And I have privilege in many ways as a white woman, I have privilege as, as a thin woman, I have privilege, right? There's a way. That I think we underestimate how the world treats us and if we're going to be in true sisterhood with other women and really, you know, Start to awaken what it is to be unified, what it is to be in love and to speak from love and to act from love. Then we have to get really good at stepping in somebody else's shoes or wearing somebody else's. You know, dress for the day. Sarah: [00:46:13] Honestly, fat phobia is so indoctrinated in society. People don't even realize when they're being fat phobic., like something as simple as sitting down to a meal and my size zero friend going off about how fattening, the thing that she ordered is on how bad a naughty she's being by eating it. And. I'm like I weigh 240 pounds and I'm size 18. Like you're sitting here talking to me about how disgusted you are by your own body. When, Monica: [00:46:51] What do you do, Sarah? What do you do when that comes up? Sarah: [00:46:54] I like now, first of all, I try to encircle myself with women that are body positive. I have a wonderful assortment of women in my life now that, uh, um, of all shapes sizes, ethnicities identities, the works. And I tried to really like. Immerse myself in that and surround myself by that in terms of like the media that I choose to consume and all the different things. But when I encountered situations like that, I used to get very, very angry and I used to get very, very hurt. But again, just like the story of my uncle, I recognize that it's not that these people are bad people. It's just that they're in the trance. They're in the trans. So. I tried very gently to direct the conversation to something that is more loving and something that is more kind about themselves or about their bodies or about bodies or about food. And if they don't get it. I just let them go with love. And I just say a little prayer in my mind that they will learn. So somehow a week on from this and love themselves, because it is a very miserable way to live when you are constantly terrified of everything that you eat when you are constantly terrified of not looking stunningly beautiful at every single given moment. And you'll see, it's like a constant States of faith. It's a constant state of like, Oh my God, like. You know, my hair isn't done and my body is bloated because I have my period and like, everybody's going to like, look at me and say that I've gained weight. So I'm like, Oh my God, like, I can't eat this and I need to like, stop myself. What kind of life is that? I know what kind of life is that, that you were living? How can you be happy like that? And I know I can speak from this because I lived that I used to stop myself to the point that I was seen saying in school. Okay. I used to sit down with my girlfriend at lunchtime and talk about all the things that we would eat. If it wouldn't make us fat, we would literally sit down and fall inside a long shower. He's saying one granola bar and sharing one, you know, the ones that, the nature Valley ones, that the two, we would share one and we would talk about all the things that we would eat. If it wouldn't make us fats. How sick is that? How sick is that? Monica: [00:49:12] Like the fan, the fantasizing. It's just like the withholding from ourselves. Sarah. I want to read this because you wrote it. Okay. But it occurred to me is so beautiful. So. This is from one of your Instagram posts behind the eyes of every woman. There is a powerful and universal forest that lays dormant, waiting patiently to be awakened. It is activated when she does the difficult work of going deep within learning to trust herself, to listen to her intuition, her body, the song of her soul. Every time she refuses to allow herself to be used or objectified. Every time she gives at her own expense, the call for healing grows stronger. Ignoring this call shows up in the form of depression, a deep feeling of soul wrenching, torture and dissatisfaction, but there's a way out. Every time she stands up for herself every time that she knows the answer is yes. When the world says no, and she bravely follows the call of her wild heart, she gets one step closer. The beautiful thing about this difficult and painful process is that every time a woman takes the step towards healing herself. She begins to heal the world. She is able to shine her light into the lives of those who circle around her to help others, to relight the candles of their own souls and step forward claiming their inner light. This is the power of women. This is the power of community. So beautiful Sarah: [00:50:57] That sums it up. Monica. Monica: [00:50:59] I know Sarah: [00:51:00] That's been my life. There's a incredible, incredibly powerful affirmation that I encountered the other day when I was, you know, when you start to unravel and open the Pandora's box inside of you and you're like, Jesus, like, how am I going to get through this? I found this incredible quote that was written by a woman. Her name is the holistic psychologist. I believe on Instagram. It says it's a gift myself for the things I did when I was in survival mode, I have lived most of my life in survival mode, and many of us live our lives in survival mode. Doing things that we know on the surface are not in our best interest doing things that hurt and damage ourselves. Because we don't know any basil. And then when we learn bad, so we beat ourselves for it and we taught ourselves for it. And it's just so sad and that incredible, incredible aphorism or whatever it is that you call them. Like, Just seeing that to yourself, you know, it's important on, so forgive other people, but I think it's most important to forgive yourself. All of us on this planet. We are doing our best. It is hard. It is hard. And. even someone who may be listening to this podcast and hearing conversations like this for the first times in their lives. Forgive yourself, forgive yourself. If any difficult emotions are coming up when you're listening to this stuff and maybe feeling ashamed or bad for. Acting in ways when you didn't know any better, forgive yourself, you're doing your best. We're all doing our best here. Monica: [00:53:01] We really are. We're all doing our best and awakening is painful. It's painful. And I think the hardest thing for us to recognize when we're in pain is to actually go to ourselves as we would, our best friend who is in pain and to just. Metaphorically put our arms around ourselves and just love ourselves through the pain because it's actually, that is the biggest piece that I think continues to perpetuate the trance is that if we don't develop and strengthen that inner muscle of self love, we're never going to break out of that trance and the beauty of breaking out of the trans while it can be incredibly. I won't say painful because I think it is deeply freeing, but it it's also infuriating. When you start to get in touch with how society has kind of kept a lot of this facade in place, it just becomes. I remember just oftentimes feeling enraged and wanting to just, you know, do something about it. And of course, those of you that are listening, maybe your role, maybe part of your purpose, if you're getting activated is actually, you know, you've got some kind of soul contract to be part of this conversation. So obviously pay attention to that too. So, Sarah, I just want to say. We're almost at time here, but I love the poem that you wrote. I wanted you, I wanted to invite you to read it. And before you do, I wanted to just ask you, is there anything else that you want to share with our listeners today? It's just been such a powerful conversation and I know that there's so much more, but we'll be sure to have you back and we can unpack some more of this. Sarah: [00:54:45] We'd love that we'd lovely lovingly accept that invitation. I would just like to share that, you know, I'm in the process right now of, through saying a workshop that I know is going to be very, very powerful and very healing and very helpful. If there are any of you out there that. Have ever felt like your body was a good enough who have ever felt like you were not good enough and you are starting that journey and you don't know where to go or where to tune to guys can please follow me on Instagram at the curvy trainees, feel free to reach out to me anytime. And I would love to be able to have the privilege to share that workshop with you when it comes out. Also I through our organization plus amplified. We're going to be sharing some resources for plus size women to really start to learn how to unpack all of this. Cause it's a lot, like you had mentioned earlier, Monica, the experience. So the plus size woman, if you think like straight size women have pain, like plus size women, our pain runs so deep and it's so frightening because they're soft your resources out there in the world for us, because that fat phobic thing is. So very, very active in society. So they are very few places where you can find a community of like-minded people to help guide you through this process and learn to love yourself through all of the different facets. So please again, follow us along on Instagram at plus amplified, we're going to be having all sorts of cool mindset, transformation, workshops, events in prison, online. Well coming up again in the future, we've got one coming up for mother's day. So please, I would love to connect with any of you in any way that feels helpful and you know, that's, what's coming up. Coming up soon in terms of the poem, would you like me to share that poem. Monica: [00:56:34] I would love it. And, and I just, again, such a, such a fan I'm, I'm loving reading all of them, what you're sharing and highly recommend we'll of course have all of Sarah's links in the show notes, but yes. So let's end with your poem. Sarah: [00:56:53] All right. Let's add my poem. And on that night, the women danced and swung them. My hips. They laughed from their wounds and their bellies and their boons. Finally, they realized that the world was not outside of them, but within. Everything that they had been searching so desperately for. They had been carrying inside of them all along. Monica: [00:57:19] Love you girl. Thank you so much. Sarah: [00:57:21] Love you, Monica. Thank you. Thank you so much. And for our listeners, More to be revealed. Monica: [00:57:35] We hope you enjoyed this episode. For more information, please visit us@jointherevelation.com and be sure to download our free gift, subscribe to our mailing list or leave us a review on iTunes. We thank you for your generous listening and as always more to be revealed.