Monica  0:03  
Welcome to the revelation project podcast. I'm Monica Rodgers. And this podcast is intended to disrupt the trance of unworthiness, and to guide women to remember and reveal the truth of who we are. We say that life is a revelation project, and what gets revealed, gets healed.

So hey, Liz McCartney, welcome back. Well, thank you for having me back. I'm so honored to be here today. I love when we were kind of talking about, you know, what we wanted to talk about on this episode that what continually showed up was this idea of the mass. And what I love most about the mass is nobody ever wants to talk about the fact that you want to talk to me about it. I'm like, Yes. And well. And I do think that there are those of us kind of in this work of self actualization, self growth work, that do love this conversation. But actually, it's a very fertile place for us to have, you know, deep conversations that actually grow roots and that bloom into and transform into other other aspects of our healing, I think,

Liz  1:24  
Well, you know, if we don't address what we call the mess, then we're not actually addressing the integral, individual need of healing. And if we're uncomfortable about addressing the mess, whether it's a collective energy that we're discussing, or whether it's the individual energy we're discussing, what we're really doing is we're pushing away with willful ignorance are healing. And it is something that is innate within us. We have a choice to make, we can either choose to be willfully ignorant of the root causes of our disruption of our disparity, and our needs to heal. But in doing so, we not only do great harm within ourselves, we're actually harming the collective energy and creating a mess that actually outwardly becomes more expansive.

Monica  2:18  
Yeah, it sure does. And so for our listeners, you know, I just want to kind of define what do I call the mass? What do we call the mass? So if I were to answer what what is the mass, I would say, Okay, so I'm somebody who grew up in a house full of secrets, I would call that a mass, like the masses the place. nobody really wants to talk about the hard things. Nobody wants to take a look at the difficult, challenging topics that come up. They're the things and again, I always think about women in particular, we women in particular, have a really hard time, I think, talking about the mass, because we've been taught that anything that resembles a mass that is close to us, we've been taught to either run or to clean it up fast. And when we can't clean it up, when there's, when there's not enough brooms, and carpets in the world to hide it behind, it tends to be a place of paralysis, it tends to be a place where we really kind of like, can lose ourselves and fall into the trap in an even deeper way. It's almost like a dissociative place. So when I think about some of the more challenging conversations that I've had to have in my life, there has been had to be this tremendous amount of conscious courage to an intention to stay in my body when it comes to actually having difficult conversations. And so when I What, what else, I'm, I'm referring to our things like disease, okay, like we often don't want to talk about that. We don't want to talk about messy situations or family dysfunction or mental illness or, but then there's a way that when we talk about these things, they actually become really, portals into healing. And the reason that I am so fond of the mass is because I so believe, I love that quote by tick, not Han, which is no mud, no Lotus. I really look at the fact that even though it can be trite to say that it's so true that we often look at mud or dirt or you know, like these messy places in our lives as places where we can get quote unquote tainted or stuck or, you know, all those expressions right stuck in the mud, but but there's also This, this beauty that can only grow there. And when I think about the fact that the Lotus is the symbol of enlightenment, and it only grows in the mud, it's like, no accident that we said that that expression is so true. No mud, no Lotus. And so, Liz, we're gonna mud wrestle today.

Liz  5:23  
I look forward to my dress. It is it is my divine purpose and calling to wrestle in the muck with others, and myself. And you know, what you said was absolutely true. You know, growing up in a family where there were many secrets growing up in a family where people were emotionally stunted, willfully stunted, of connecting with emotional intimacy to their loved ones, is imperative to overcome.

Monica  5:57  
Because, yeah, and I was just gonna say, just go right there. I am so curious with willfully stunted because I think to myself, is any like, Are we really are there some of us that are willfully stunted. And what is under that,

Liz  6:14  
though, when I speak of willful ignorance and being willfully stunted, that is a person's conscious choice to ignore their own lack of healing, to ignore the Oh, root cause of that lack of healing. Many families go through this secretive nature with one another, where they placate one another, where they say, well, we're not going to go in deep with one another to find out why there is abuse, there is neglect, why there is corrosion within the family unit, we're going to willfully ignore this. And we're going to placate one another with the aesthetics of the family unit. And I think that many people grow up in families and households like that. For instance, in my own family, there were many things that were never addressed, because they were too uncomfortable. Right? They were not deemed to be something that anyone wanted to embrace, and full acknowledgement and consciousness of. And what that did was it perpetuated cycles of addiction cycles of abuse, generation to generation. Yet on the outside of the family unit, you have this appearance of unity of love, the appearance of continuity, support and healing. But within there's the corrosive nature of the willful ignorance, the act of literally saying, I will not have this conversation about what is happening to you, because I will not look within myself to find why that makes me this grossly uncomfortable.

Monica  8:06  
Yeah, you know, I'm literally having and I think, I think there are many of us who are maybe listening to this that can relate to that idea of, you know, the, the mass behind the pretty picture. It's like, I can literally remember times where, you know, my biological family growing up, it's like, yeah, like many, many families, we had dysfunction, and to be able to shove that dysfunction under, you know, the proverbial metaphorical rug, and then put on a smiling face for the family picture. Yes, yeah. It can be such a mind, fuck.

Unknown Speaker  8:51  
Trying to find

Monica  8:52  
another word. And then I'm like, there is no other word there is there's no other word. Yeah. And

Liz  8:56  
it's, it's completely true. I personally used to refer to it, as you know, clusterfuck within my own family unit, because I was coming in as a child, the generations of addiction of abuse, and neglect, the not one of them had ever taken the time to look within and say, allow me to heal myself so that I don't perpetuate the abuse, the neglect and the addiction on the next generation. And it's that lack of individual consideration that lack of individual consciousness that continues to perpetuate these family cycles to the great detriment of each generation thereafter. And then those individuals grow into adults that then contribute those those attributes of abuse, neglect, addiction, coercion, manipulation and disease in to society, into their own family units that they create into their own friendships, their own professional association. And it's because of this, that we have this systemic disease running through society constantly. We have to sit down and have the uncomfortable conversations within ourselves and to one another, in order to bring healing about, had anybody in my family ever had the open, honest conversation about the detriment of alcoholism, about the detriment of physical of sexual abuse, these generations of this lineage would be freed from that. But they chose not to. And that is the willful ignorance. And that is what creates, for lack of a better word than mindfuck, within the child, who on one hand behind closed doors is experiencing all of these corrosive experiences. But then on the outside, is forced to maintain this beautiful and parents. And it's very contradictory, and it causes deep shame in people.

Monica  11:16  
Yeah, I love that you brought up the shame, because that's, I think one of the, one of the biggest forces that keeps keeps us from really, willfully entering into the mass is the shame, I think that we believe is kind of somewhere lurking in the center of that mass, that somehow it's going to be the end of us, like there's actually a sense of personal annihilation, that we that we avoid there that that that survival mechanism kicks in, and that creates that avoidance, you know, of really kind of wading into that. Now, I also want to point out something that you just laid out so beautifully, which is obviously if you have not had a healthy way of expressing yourself modeled to you within your own family, it's true that you may be unconscious of the fact that there is actually another way to be, there is another way to live. And so everybody has to kind of really be their own barometer of what their own personal experience has been. But if you've grown up in a family, or a situation, or you're currently living a life, where you know, where you're pretending actually not to know that you're unhappy, that you that something is is amiss, that you have to put on a show, in order to kind of survive and get by in your life. That is what we're pointing to here, that there's a mass living underneath the masking that, you know, and there's this idea that if we put on this mask and reflect this perfection, or this perfectionism out into the world, that we're high, that we're somehow like hiding this, you know, this, this big or fooling, fooling others into believing that we've got it handled, but I want to ask you to like what end, because at the end of the day, who we're really fooling, is ourselves. And what we're really hiding, essentially, I believe, and I'm going to assert, is either a conscious or an unconscious self loathing.

Liz  13:58  
That's exactly it. And what we do is when we put on the mask, who are we putting on the mask for, we're putting on the mask within our family unit, for the family, right to hide the shame of what is actually happening within the family unit. We are coerced into doing so as children. Everybody has this mindset, that if you just put one foot in front of the other and just keep plodding through it, that somehow that's the way to heal it. It's not true. And what you end up doing, you end up putting on this facade, of happiness of cheerfulness, of, of inclusion, where is underneath the core is completely wrong. We're also putting on that mask for society. Because people in society particularly in our society, do not come into depth of embracing one another at all. They want the system stetic to be pleasing to be cheerful, to be attractive to be beautiful. When people ask you how your day is, they just want to hear, it's great. They don't want to hear the truth of how you are actually feeling within. And so while we put the mask on and the facade, what we're doing is we're perpetuating falsehood, we're perpetuating a false hood that is so detrimental to ourselves, that we start to actually disassociate ourselves from what an actual healed individual is. And then we start to disassociate ourselves from those qualities,

Monica  15:43  
I want to also put some more language around what you're talking about, because this is this dis association that you're talking about. I also call it kind of the fracture itself. Yes, it's also the, when I think about all of the opportunities, I had to abandon my truth along the way, in service to the family story, or the family unit, or the prettiest static, or the mass that you're talking about. When you do the work of healing, you really are doing the work of you're really doing the work of being at choice of saying, I'm no longer willing to hide my truth, I'm no longer willing to hide behind the facade, because the risk of what is happening to me, and the risk that will the knowledge that I am going to perpetuate this, if I continue. It's like this moment where you suddenly the revelation so to speak, is the is the first revelation is the one where we realize, Oh, my God, I have a choice, I can continue to keep hiding this. Or I can actually say no, no more, I'm not going to hide this anymore. And when we do that, that is the moment I think that we start to really enter the mess. But what I want to say about that moment, is that it's also a profoundly liberating moment. Because when we no longer are, when we're saying no, when we're at choice, and we're saying no, I refuse to hide this or comply any longer with this lie. What we're actually doing is we're refusing to hold the world on our shoulders anymore, and be responsible anymore, for contributing to basically a massive collective of problems. It's like in that moment, that we stop abandoning ourselves, is the moment I feel like something happens in our alignment with the truth, where suddenly everything even though it gets messy as hell first who is it that said? That said, the truth will set you free, but it will first really piss you off. You know that it's so true. But then you know it, yes, it has to get so incredibly messy before you start to see some improvement. But by God, there is something that I think happens with almost like universal law, where when we actually start to align with what is true for us. And again, let's let's dive more deeply into truth. Because when I say truth, I don't mean collective truth. I mean, personal truth.

Liz  18:44  
Yes. And it has to start within our personal truth within our individual beam. People tend to tend to ignore the individual being and just say, Well, I'm going to produce myself into the collective energy right into society, into the family into all of these outward energies, because they're fearful of facing the truth within themselves. And what that does is if I don't face the truth within myself, of what I have endured, and survived, and find the root cause of that, it just festers like an infection like a virus, and then I'm bringing that infection, that virus into everything that I touch, everything that I produce, everything that I attain, is there by infected. So we have to really it is a mess, and people come to me for healing. They come to me for mentorship for guidance, and I always tell them this, when I start opening up your subconscious and unconscious mind, we are going to be opening up everything that you have suppressed within You were going to have to face that with consciousness in order to heal this. Now, when I say that to people in theory, they go, Okay, I think I can do that, until they come into the depth of it. I call it shedding and purging. And I've often made the, the metaphor that like people think that, you know, healing and enlightenment is some likes beautiful experience of love, peace and light. It's not it can be deeply, deeply affecting within it has you forced to face within? Why do I have these patterns? I am I abusive? Why am I neglectful? Why am I emotionally cut off? from being in full embracement of love? in all ways? Why am I attracted to those around me in society, family and friend, that gravitate towards lower vibrational energies such as prejudice, racism, inequality, blatant hatred, and violence?

Monica  21:18  
Well, and and Liz, I want to say the more subtle ones, too, because I don't think that a lot of us recognize that when we're blaming. Yeah, we're, you know, gossiping, when we are like those that seem like everyday normal to us, like everybody does it, it's like, well, actually, no railing. There's no personal integrity. That comes I think, with doing our own healing work. Yeah. So I don't want to interrupt but I, but I also really want to, like make this really, really real and tangible.

Liz  21:54  
So when we start with the with the smaller at, like personality attributes of being manipulative, gossiping, you know, looking down upon others, right? of others. Exactly. It's right, when we start going through what I call the cycle of martyrdom, where everybody else is to blame, but I'm sure perfection, or you know, that those type of attributes, those are the small, the small personalities that are coming out of this that then manifest into the larger, the larger qualities that I just spoke of, and it starts off small, like you'll see it, particularly in children and young adults, who have come out of these families situations where they were forced to be held in silence and forced to maintain the facade where you see them, you know, they're growing into young adults who are incredibly judgmental of others. It can be something as innocuous as making fun of other people, for any number of reasons gossiping, moving through those little, what we seem to be accepting of in society, within ourselves is actually a projection of something unhealed within that individual. And then if it's left unhealed, it grows into these darker quality, the larger, darker qualities,

Monica  23:25  
yes. And what you're pointing to here is when we are projecting what we're really doing is reflecting we're, it's a, it's more a reflection of where we're at in our own stuckness in our own limitations in our own, and the quicker we can really get curious. And these are, what I want to kind of also illuminate here as we're talking are that are the tools to liberation and freedom are the tools. Actually, that seems so obvious. But I don't think that we put them into practice enough. And some of those tools are just first and foremost, the noticing, yes, it's noticing like, Oh, look, I'm projecting I'm blaming, I'm gossiping. Oh, I wonder what that's about? actually getting curious with ourselves and looking at ourselves with compassion. And you pointed to something so important, which is the fact that we think this healing journey is all about love, peace and light. But the fact of the matter is that, yes, we do actually lighten we, as we heal, we lighten. But I think the point that you're making is that the beginning part of this journey is really the place where we find ourselves often on our knees, you know where we are, that we're willing to admit that we don't have the answers that we feel so broken that we are essentially in a mess. It's funny, I, my first marriage was, you know, to Southern man and in, in his growing up, I love some of the Southern terms. And actually in the south, it's a compliment. Like, I remember when my daughter was born, they would say she's a mass, you know, and I, I love the expression because, but at first I didn't know what it meant. So I was like, Oh my god, like, why are they calling her a mess, she's beautiful. But what they meant was like, Well, she's a mess. She's a beautiful mess, right? Like she just has all over the place. Like, she's a mess. And I, I was, I was thinking to myself, you know, because at that time, in my life, I had not yet kind of really, I had done some preliminary work. But it wasn't, of course, until my divorce that I really, really entered into the mess, I felt like that was the point in my life where I was just, I had become so exhausted. So just so unhappy it, I literally had, at that point in my life, a very, very good understanding of how overwhelmed I was at continuing to hold up the facade. And, and I remember when I finally allowed everything to fall apart, and this is kind of this interesting behavior that I'm pointing to, because I, again, I'm, I'm going to speak in generalities, but I believe it's true. And I'm going to assert that most women hold a perfect facade in place, because it's what we've been taught to do, we've been taught to hold it all together. And honestly, it was literally like when I stopped agreeing, cuz there's an agreement that we don't realize it's not like, Oh, I'm agreeing with my family out loud to hold this facade in place. It's a silent agreement. It's a pact we make with ourselves. And with, often our family of origin, it's breaking tribal code, as my friend Libby would say, to stop holding up the facade. And when we break tribal code, what we are essentially doing is refusing to comply, confuse it, refusing to lie, refusing to be that voice of everything is fine. 

Liz  27:44  
Well, what we're essentially doing in that moment, is we're saying I will no longer carry this burden. Yes, I no longer carry this burden and shoulder the weight of your disease within myself anymore. I'm freeing myself from the burdens that you have given to me, and demanded that I carry

Monica  28:11  
Yes. And and what I want to say about that moment, is that is that moment that we enter into the beautiful mess, even though we can't see that it's beautiful yet, that is a pinnacle portal moment, I think of like, choosing the path that is now going to take us into a whole nother dimension, not not only am I using those words dimension as like, you know, a convenient language shift here. But what I'm really talking about is that that that it literally starts to shift the energy the dimensional energy, in which we have been holding ourselves back

Liz  28:58  
well, and speaking of the dimensional energy, you know, the dimensional energy is something that we are within, as we exist simultaneously and multiple dimensions, as we exist simultaneously, within human form, and divine being. We are existing within the collective energy of this dimension in this form, and we are simultaneously existing in another dimension. And what we do concurrently energetically affects the other. If we are going to continually refuse to acknowledge our own individual mess and not come into healing about those root issues, those wounds that need to be healed. We are then going to start emitting these very low vibrational energies that translate into very low vibrational behavioral patterns. You are going to To find yourself, committing yourself to these lower dimensional energies, because remember what we are we emit energetically. And what we emit, we attract energetically. So we actually do lower ourselves energetically, consciously, physically, through all means, by not healing the root causes of the mess within.

Monica  30:29  
Right, your vibe attracts your tribe, as right. You know, this, these concepts were always things that I intellectually kind of got, but I had not yet experienced because I was still kind of stuck in these energetic patterns, I had not yet experienced the physical manifestation of those shifts, until I really, really kind of went through that dark night of the soul, that utter breakdown of everything that I had known when I refuse to kind of do it any longer. And at that time, from the outside looking in, it probably looked like a nervous breakdown on it. We were talking like not pretty folks. Yes. And, and I've admitted that, you know, like, for me going to bed for eight months, like I've literally had people respond to me when I've said that, like, Oh, my God, I can't believe you're sharing that because I don't have, well, I don't have shame around the fact that that's what it took. But I think, again, to go back to the mess when we go through experience, experiences of depression, of feeling overwhelmed of feeling anxious, even if you look at one of the most common kind of collective symptoms that we're all exhibiting right now, anxiety being a huge one, there's a tremendous amount of shame that comes with that. And what I want to invite us all to really start to look at is that, that these are normal emotions that we have every right to experience and to be transparent about, and that just because we're anxious, it doesn't also mean that we can simultaneously also be brilliant, because all of these emotions and experiences belong as part of the human and the divine experience,

Liz  32:50  
Sadly true. And we need to be coherence of that truth. You know, through my own healing, I came out of great periods of darkness, within my family life, when I finally empowered myself to stand up against my abuser, against the abuse that I experienced within my family, through my father through my mother, when I finally stood up in empowerment of that, it was not me standing up, it was me crawling on my hands and knees out of the mess.

Monica  33:31  
Yeah, I mean, it really it really is, and gets to be.

Liz  33:37  
And when I when I crawled out of that mess, it wasn't in the full light of my own empowerment. So the contrary, it took me years, years of trial and error, years of coming in and out of that healing of consciousness, years of going through different types of therapeutic modalities, personal growth, years of shedding and purging everybody else's burdens and shame that I refuse to carry anymore. And when I finally came about that into my own empowerment, it was an incredible journey of self realization. But it was it was very trying at times. And, you know, the thing that caught me most off guard was how many people didn't want to speak to me about that, you know, during that experience of empowerment of healing of growth, oh my gosh, shame you because it makes them so uncomfortable because then they have to look at you and they have to recognize within themselves. Some of those experiences those qualities and that is difficult for others who do not want to consciously heal, you know, I push I am shame. And it's, it's so detrimental because during those times that that both you and I experienced as individuals, you know, there should be no shame in taking eight months to retire to heal, there should be no shame in having to capitulate and pivot and transform to heal in any way that you are capable of doing. There should be no shame placed upon us.

Monica  35:34  
No, but but I think one of the things that you're pointing to, again, is how isolating it can be when we, when we are going in, right, the eight months was really just the beginning of the cracking open, yes, here we are 11 years later, you know, and just like you, this is a very nonlinear path, it doesn't just, you know, when we think about the fact that for, okay, so I just turned 50. So, you know, if I were to look at the first 40 years of my life, it was about trying to kind of fit into this box and carry this facade and perfect this picture. And really, the last 11 years of my life has been about unbecoming from that have been about, you know, asserting my right to Yes, to not have to hold the burdens and to not have to carry that wound and to and to give myself permission, to break the patterns, to liberate myself to look at things differently, to experience to have my own experience of the world. And to start claiming, and reclaiming what is right and good and truthful. For me personally,

Liz  36:47  
it's so.

Monica  36:49  
So I love that you're also kind of pointing to how lonely that it can be when we're going through this process, because that is almost like insult to the injury itself, right is that there's a way that it really that that that that experience, that isolation starts to also inform us about how taboo this still is in our society. And again, instead of turning back towards ourselves and be and adding to, to that experience by with our own self loathing, actually, so I want to back up here and I want to talk about self loathing, because one of the things that I talk about, in my very, very first episode of the revelation project and how the revelation project got started, was it actually got started with understanding that at the very, very center of it all, was self loathing that, yes, it was an unconscious self loathing that there was a constant and continual voice in my head. And if you're listening, and you're out there saying what voice that's exactly the voice I'm talking about, right? That we all have inner voices, and the inner voices and the chatter, you know, that kind of the monkey mind that people talk about, is the very first thing that we want to start noticing. Because I've always said, since I went through leadership training in my early 20s, that I agree with this premise, that we are always having a conversation with the world, we are always having a conversation, the trick of it is to be aware of what is the conversation that we are having. And there's an origin conversation that we're constantly having with ourselves. And until we notice that conversation, we are not going to get very far, because the very, very first thing we have to understand is that there is a constant voice that is telling us something about ourselves that needs to be disrupted at the very heart of everything. And it's the voice that says you won't be long if you say this, you weren't loved if you do this, yes. It's the voice that when you drop your groceries because the milk has leaked in the paper bag that says you stupid idiot, can't you do anything? Right, which is actually the real voice I discovered after I had gone to see aman and he had looked at me and he had said, Monica, do you speak to your loved ones the same way that you speak to yourself? And I said to him, What are you what and I? I remember just looking at him like he was crazy because I didn't know what he was talking about. I really I kind of knew I'm like, Oh, he's insinuating. I speak poorly to myself, but I write the and it wasn't until basically a few days ago. Later that I was coming out of the grocery store, and that that happened that blessedly and I look at that, again, as divine choreography, because it was so close to that moment that he had said those words to me, because I don't think I would have noticed otherwise. And that is exactly what happened. The milk leaked in the bag, and the bag, the bottom of the bag broke, and it was right in the center of the parking lot and cars were coming. And people were stopping. And I had to pick up my groceries and the words that came out of my mouth, not my actual mouth, but my mind mouth. Myself, yeah, I thought, Oh, my God, we're terrible. And I couldn't make it stop.

Liz  40:42
And, and that moment of realization and, you know, one of the things that I had to come to realization with within myself, and one of the things that I help others through is I say, you know, You have to give yourself the same amount of respect and love and support 
and compassion and compassion 
and forgiveness within yourself that you would any other person.
And we do not do that. And it's systematic because of the way that we are raised to be shameful, that we are raised to hide. We are raised to deceive ourselves within so that we can this perfect facade going to make everybody else comfortable. Who are we really making comfortable by continuing to walk through our lives?
Like literally zombies with sod going while we're dying on the inside. Because we're not coming into the consciousness of our own needs to heal. So we're, we're just literally walking around this facade and we're much more kind to abject strangers than we are to ourselves. And that is something that is so corrosive and many of us end up developing what I call like the martyr syndrome, where we are taught to keep this facade going to sacrifice ourselves over and over and over again, to make others well, to make others comfortable because we're taught that we are a burden and that we're supposed to sacrifice ourselves for some sort of greater good, but it's a perversity of what that's supposed to be.
The actual way that it's divinely guided to be, we're not supposed to sacrifice ourselves. We're supposed to offer ourselves. And the offering has to start from offering ourselves that love compassion, support, and forgiveness and healing. How can we offer it to others truly if we don't even speak and treat ourselves with kindness.

Monica 43:01
Well, and that's part of that superficial, because I was going to say, yes, there's so much truth to that. And there's also this deeper level, Liz where, you know, I often look at the fact that we may offer kindness and forgiveness to others. But we also kind of have a, a lack of depth of relational skills really to ourselves.
And when we do work on that, when we really do turn toward ourselves and start to notice these voices, start to look at ourselves with some curiosity and some compassion. Where we're not shitting on ourselves. Like I should be this, or I should be that it's it's when so much of the Buddhist philosophy for me started to really, really make sense, this idea of Pema.
Calls it the wisdom of no escape. It's that place where we're no longer trying to escape from looking at it where we're actually able to start to notice. Wow, I'm really hard on myself. And instead of being hard on myself for being hard on myself, I start to soften and actually. Notice like, Oh, there's this precious woman underneath this hardened voice that underneath all of this perfectionism is a genuine desire to serve is a genuine desire to give is a genuine desire to love.
And oftentimes we layer on top of these genuine desires. There's actually at the source of each of us. His goodness is his love. And what we've done is we've fractured. We've separated from this goodness that is within us. That is at the very heart of who we are, and it takes quite a bit of time. And when we talk about the illusion, when we talk about the illusions of kind of.
What it is to be a human being. What we're really talking about are these illusions, like perfection is an illusion 

Liz
as is control

Monica 
control is an illusion. Yes. Fear is an illusion. 


Liz: 45:20
Fear is what we perpetuate it to be. Fear is not an individual energy here as a blood to us. It doesn't, it's what we perpetuate it to become.
One thing that I loved about what you just said. And one thing that I'd like to speak to is in our society, particularly for women. And I'm not saying I'm not excluding men, but particularly for women, we are taught not to speak in terms of self love and self embracement. We are taught that we are unworthy.
We are taught that we are only there to exist to be sacrificed when you stand up and you say, I am worthy because I am a divine being of love of grace, of strength you are saying, I am confident. I am strong. I am capable. I am love. I am light. I am joyful. And I'm going to utilize these attributes and I'm going to look at myself as these things, because I am becoming these things, but we tend to tear down individuals who stand with strength.
And speak of themselves in positive terms, we tend to embrace those who are self-deprecating to the point of being self insulting and disrespecting of themselves, right. Instead of, of emulating and saying, no, I am worthy of unconditional love of myself. And I offer unconditional love with another. I am intelligent.
I am capable. I am empowered. I am strong when we stand up and we start speaking in those terms, we're often torn down until you're conceited. You're egotistical. Who were you to stand up and say that you are these things. They tear us down incrementally trying to put us back into those tiny little places of darkness and shame that we were born out of.

Monica: 47:45
It's also reminded me of a conversation I had with Sage Polaris on the podcast, and she talked about patriarchy stress disorder. And this idea of, again, we were kind of assimilated in a culture that hands us, the torches to burn ourselves out. Right. And these are all of the ways in which we are doing this and to.
All of our listeners. It's time to start noticing where we are putting out our hands to take the torch and just stop doing that to stop actually being unconscious about the fact that we are burning ourselves at the stake. Now it was this idea that they used to burn us at the stake for being outspoken, for declaring our right to actually work with nature too.
Um, you know, if you really look at the origin, let's say of even kind of this whole movement of, of burning women at the stake and being witches, quote unquote, I won't go down this tangent for very long here, but my point is that these were women that were very connected to the earth and to all of the natural cycles of the earth and to all of the healing properties of the earth.
And we couldn't have. Women that were sovereign to themselves and were completely embodied in their own knowing of how to help others peel themselves. When you also had people who wanted to control and take power religiously, and otherwise in governance, you know, you, you couldn't have people that were out there, especially women who.
And so we had to kill off these women. We had to burn them at the stake. We had to create, you know, a deep fear so that women would no longer practice sovereignty, personal sovereignty. I mean, there's a long history of this that goes all the way back. The point though is really starting to recognize that we have to stop.
Taking up the torch and burning ourselves. I mean, we're basically, they no longer have to do it. We do it to ourselves 
well, and systematically it's still happening, you know, systematically it's still happening literally and both figuratively throughout the world. There is still the stigma stigmatization that a woman who stands to empowered and a woman who was tethered into the energies of her own healing and into the healing of others, because that is powerful when we use women.

Liz: 50:32
Ground ourselves into the natural and the nurturing environment of feeling. We are healing of ourselves, which is setting us free and empowering ourselves from our abusers. And we are systematically then empowering others. Well, there are many in our society who will not tell the rate that lightly.
Because they need others to be unhealed. They need to be controlled and they cannot be controlled if they are healed and empowered. 

Monica 51:08
And if we want to see this in action right now, the best example is Dr. Jill Biden in the white house. And this whole thing about her not using Dr. In front of her name, written by. A white male who is basically misogynistic. And again, it's just, it's so obvious to me now, as I see it on display, but there's a way that we, again, I can look out there at that gentleman and see it exhibited in the world. But what I need to really do is turn that finger back at myself and look and see where do I still hold unconscious internal misogyny.

Liz 51:54
That's right. And that is what creates these movements. It's the unhealed individual, not recognizing their own internal prejudices wounds. Patriots within themselves. What is the root cause of the wound of misogyny? What is the root cause of your need to control for worse and manipulate others? It all comes down into the root cause of the individual that then perpetuates and projects that behavior outward.

Monica 52:32
On to others to try to hide their own  illness. Well, and then there, again, your vibe attracts your tribe. And again, I'm going to say something really unpopular here, but you know, it is the revelation project and what gets revealed gets healed. And so, you know, I'm going to dare to say that there are groups out there, you know, some might call them cults.
Some may call them counterculture movements. Some may call them conspiracy theories. The bottom line is that it's really interesting when you see certain, Hmm. Let's say certain groups that are affiliated, let's say with light and love, but they're acting in completely the opposite manner.

Liz 53:21
And that is so very. True of what I deem the lower vibrational energies, remember lower vibrational energies and those who exhibit those energies through their human form, come through their human patterns. These are individuals who were parasites. They cannot themselves create because in order to create, you have to come into consciousness and healing.
Well, if you're an individual who has an unhealed nature within you, let's, um, let's look at a lot of the groups that are perpetuating themselves to be, you know, these groups of love, peace, and light. And yet when you look underneath that facade, you see the disease. You see the prejudice, you see the racism, you see the manipulative coercive nature of the hatred that lies within.
So what I say is you have to, and we tend to do this in society. We tend to blanket things. And say, well, if you're aligned with this group, you must be all of these things. I always look within a group, a collective and I find the individual energy. And I say, what is it about this group that, that individual energy is attracted to?
Because what you're going to find within that individual persons attract to that group is something within their own. Physical energetic, mental, emotional makeup that is unhealed and comes back to the responsibility of the individual. 

Monica 55:10
Yeah. And, and I do want to, I also want to, you know, instead of like really circling Dallas here, like what comes up for me just to put more language around this is Le let me just take, for example, something like, I don't know, like.
Q Anon or something that there's, and of course there are many, many, many different examples of this out there, but it's not that I'm sitting here saying that there's not a 10% truth in the fact that we have a very, let's say we have created, let me say that a very. Uh, distrust around our own government.

There has not been a tremendous amount of transparency in certain let's say governmental sectors or even. Public and private sectors, let's take the vaccination industry. For example, like I am pro transparency. Like a lot of people want to say, you know, that there are a ton of people who are anti-vax, but actually what they are is pro transparency.
They want more information and they want transparent. They want the authentic truth. And that, that information is not. Given being given freely. And so it creates a tremendous amount of distrust. And then you get, uh, an amount of distrust and suddenly you're collapsing all of these areas of like confusion and distrust together.

And then you have all these people congregating in what now feels like a conflated conspiracy where all of these weird. And completely non intersecting things are now all lumped together. And it's just, and talk about crazy-making. I feel like I'm back in a dysfunctional because I'm part of the collective, like, no matter what.
We are all interconnected. And so I'm feeling like, Oh my God, like, there's my crazy uncle. That's getting invited to Thanksgiving and misbehaving at the dinner table and nobody wants to say anything about it. And it's crazy making. 

Liz 57:28
Yes it is. And you know, the, the thing is about, about groups like human on about the, the groups of like the anti-vaxxers, you know, within, within these groups and, and there's many different groups aside from what we're speaking of, but what I always come into with these alignments of these collective energies, it, it all aligns to the individual.
Let's say and granted, the anti-vaccination groups have been largely maligned, but at its core, It literally started out with people, just wanting more information about what these medicines were doing to their children and their bodies. And I want to say, I want to start development. We want to make sure that I'm really, really responsible for what I'm saying here, because I don't.

Monica 58:18
I, it is not my intention to generalize and it's not my intention to create more disinformation or harm. But what I want to come back to is, again, this personal sovereignty, we all have the right to do our own research, to understand what works for our own bodies and doesn't work for our own bodies. And what is our impact on the collective as well, that all of these things need to be looked at and considered whether it's wearing a mask, not wearing a mask, getting a vaccination, not getting a vaccination.

We all have to do our own individual discernment, our own individual research, our own individual, connecting to what is. Is true for us and really seeking our own answers for some of these things. 

Liz 59:11
And that is, that is the absolute truth. And that's what I teach people. You must as an individual find your own individual path.
You know, yes, we are in a collective, but we are individuals. And as an individual, I personally make choices based on my own individual. Want and need purpose path. It all coalesces synergistically for me as an individual. Now what I find very. Disturbing, um, by many things that we see in society today, it's like, if, if you have an opinion about one thing, somehow you're supposed to embrace all the things that that may, may bring in to you.

Like if you say I'm anti-vaccination because I want more information about what I'm putting into my own body. Because I need a vigil, respect and uphold my own body. Then you were suddenly lumped into this grid, this like movement, this huge grouping that others are dumping all of their projections on.

If you're anti-vaccination somehow you're saying that you're harmful to the collective. If you're anti-vaccination, you know, your extreme, you shun all medicine and you shine all healing. That is not the case. We need to make very careful conscious choices about our own individual, need our own individual circumstance and our own individual healing, but we need to do it with higher consciousness.

Mindfulness. And justice ladened within, because what we do is the individual does affect the collective. And I really think it comes back to something that I inherently believe. We cannot adhere ourselves to these falsified collections of ideas and projections that others are offering us. I'm an individual, I'm not part of a group.
I'm an individual who is part of an energetic and conscious collective. There's a difference, a distinct difference. I think one of the things that I am also really encouraging all of us to really start to notice is where we do just that there's because there are a tremendous amount of people. Who I am noticing in various circles.

Monica 01:02:00
That is a tendency that we tend to lump. Like if somebody supports Trump, then they must X, Y, and Z. Right. We make these assumptions that basically create more separation and. We've got to start to look at where we need to do that again, all of what we're doing when we do that is reflecting where within ourselves, we need to get more curious and do some more healing work.

Liz 01:02:36
Exactly. Like for instance, obviously in this country, this has been a very tender topic. For lack of a better word, but you know, when people have made choices, politically, they are thereby condemned for other choices. But let's say I'll just use this as an example, because we brought it up. Let's say somebody votes for Trump.

And the reason that they're voting for Trump is because they want to maintain their financial wealth. Okay, so you, you 
want to maintain your financial wealth. Are you willing to do that at the sacrifice of others attributes? 

Monica
And what do you mean by that Liz?

Liz 01:03:22
For instance, this is somebody who does not support wealth equality.
This is a candidate who supports wealth inequality. So, if you were voting for this individual to protect your own individual financial wealth and you were doing so at the expense of others, ability to attain wealth equality, you have to look within yourself to find the root cause of that. Pull that draw into that energy.

If you are moving towards a group, Who is perpetuating cycles of prejudice, of chauvinism, of misogyny, of inequality, whether it's by wealth, race, gender, or sexual orientation, you have to look within yourself and say, why am I connecting to this energy? What is it that lies within me? That needs to be sought after looked in thoroughly and healed.

Why am I attracted to groups of violence? Why am I attracted to groups who are promoting wealth inequality within the societal structure? Why am I attracted to groups who were promoting the detriment? The, just the flagrant insulting, demeaning through vulgar terms of other people. It's the projection of our own unhealed nature that is drawing us into those energies.

Monica 01:04:56
I also want to say that I've had a lot of friends who really get wrapped around the axle when it comes to kind of this idea of the love attraction and this idea that they're attracting these quote unquote bad things to them. And. There's a lot of, I think. What's the word confusion around what the law of attraction really is and isn't, but what I want to say when it comes to healing work is again, the second it kind of passes into our membrane of noticing is the second we have to employ courage, compassion, and.

Gentleness when we are looking at ourselves and we are speaking to ourselves because there's a way that we can often start to notice. Oh, I guess Liz, what I want to say, because what's coming up in my energetic kind of awareness in this moment is we're kind of toggling back and forth between this idea of personal sovereignty and our right to.
Really kind of discern for ourselves. And at the same time, we're talking about our impact on the collective and kind of this law of attraction. And there's something that gets messy and muddled in the, in the middle to go back to this mess. That I want to point to where we can often kind of start to blame ourselves for some of the situations that we find ourselves in.

Does that make sense? And I wondered if you could kind of shed some light on that. 

Liz 01:05:53
So the, the law of attraction, the way that it's presented seems so simple, right? What we are, we admit when we met, we attract. Sounds very simple. And it's based on an energetic principle. That is reciprocal. Energy is reciprocal magnetic.

Monica 01:07:!2
Before you go any further. If, but if I were to go out of my house today and get into a car crash, I'm not going to. Turn to myself and blame myself that I attracted that to myself. 

Liz 01:07:27
No, no, no, no, no, no. I don't mean in those terms, because if you go out of your house today and you get into a car accident, you, you're also kind of being at the, at the will of external energies.
Um, and that goes into a different discussion of what free will is and how that's applied internally and externally. Okay. Not everything is based strictly on the law of attraction, but there is much of what we do through our energy, our behaviors, and our movements that that does directly coalescent you.

And it's a very tricky thing for people to understand, because we are individuals, but we are United in a collective energy. But that doesn't necessarily mean that we shed our individual need and right to the contrary, what it does is it means that we have to empower ourselves as individuals within the higher attributes of our being of our consciousness and our patterns and behaviors, because we are consciously and energetically connected to the collective.
So for instance, if, if I'm saying I'm an individual and I'll just use myself as an example, I strive every day to maintain my energy and a high vibrational way. I strive every day to be that a feeling that, of consciousness, that of charity, that of generosity to myself. And in doing so I emit that energy outward and those that are brought into my, into my life, into my path are of that same energy yet as an individual.

I am not just attracting the individual. I'm also contributing into the collective. Think of it this way. We are a nucleus where the center picture a nucleus within the nucleus outwardly comes the energy that energy connects to other individual nucleus. And then it's remediated back and forth. 

Monica 01:09:48
Actually also getting kind of an image of is remember when we were little and like you had a train and you had the ability to shift what track the train goes on as it's getting toward you.

It's also for me, this conscious noticing what I'm intending and what is happening and being able to shift that as it's actually happening to continue to keep myself in alignment based on my intention. 

Liz 01:13:20
And intention is at its core manifestation. So if your intention is to truly treat yourself.
In all positivity in all love in all consciousness and always beautiful. You are going to emit that energy outward and that which is brought into you will be of the energy. Now, of course you are going to be radiating that outward to others. Still w and then, you know, we can get into the discussion of external energies of freewill and the influences of those attributes upon us.

And I think where it gets messy. And, and I have a lot of clients who have this conversation with me, and I'll just put it in simple terms where they say I'm doing my best. I am my best. I'm trying my best, but things still go wrong. Why? And it's because we exist in a collective energy. And when you're connected to the collective energy, you're connected into disparative energies, not every individual that you were going to come into connection and contact with is going to be in a state of feeling a state of consciousness, or is going to radiate out positive attributes.
So that can be the disparity of energy that can offset us. 

Monica 01:11:45
Well, and I think that's what keeps us in practice and that's what keeps us growing. And that's what keeps us noticing. It's it's again, it's not, I guess what I'm also really recognizing is that the mess is always going to be part of our lives.

The more we can acknowledge it, the more we can embrace it, the more we can invite it, the more we can. Notice it with compassion and really others with the same compassion, they're messy existence. It all gets to belong is what I continually kind of, kind of want to say here. And what I also want to do here is point out that we're in a collective mess right now.
And there's. An aspect to this mess that it can, it can continue to kind of deteriorate and it may need to. So there's also a certain amount of trust that comes with being with a mass that there's a necessary part of it that has had, that has to do with the. Breakdown of certain structures in order for something new to kind of be reborn, but where we all need to kind of start to take some personal accountability in this mess is to start noticing.

Where am I blaming, avoiding shoving things under the rug? Where do I need to bring more attention to kind of my own personal mess and do my own personal kind of falling apart work that needs to happen so that the collective mass can come back together. You know, can, can kind of create kind of this death and rebirth kind of experience for what we want to envision and what we want to intend in a more healed state.

And that's really takes us each going within and doing our own personal mess work in order to come back to the collective mess and hope that we're creating anything new together

Liz 01:14:06
And people need to understand that the mess is ongoing mess. The mess is a personal evolution. It's personal transformation.

People always ask me. So how many, how long will it take until I'm fully healed? How long will it take until I'm fully enlightened. And I was great graciousness, embrace them and laugh and say, when are you going to draw your last breath in this life? Oh my God. I know. 

Monica 01:14:37
I know it's something we so want to have an arrival point, but you know, the truth of the matter is that it's just not that way.

Liz 01:14:47
It's not that way. And it's, it's that way for me, you know, as an individual and, and keep in mind. The reason that I came in to become a healer was wasn't just because I was divinely hauled into it. It was because of my own inherent need to stand within myself and face my own internal disaster. That was lurking within me.
And to cry out for healing. And what I, what I came into consciousness of was nobody could, could bring that healing to me at any greater depth than I could within myself. I had to stand within myself and face myself, and I continue to do that every single day of my existence. Every single day. And it's, it's so funny, something that you said before in the beginning of our conversation, I always refer to myself as a beautiful mess.

And I say that with great graciousness towards myself. And I don't use the word mast in a derogatory stance. I use it as saying I am in an ongoing state of healing, transformation and evolution as an individual so that I can continue to offer myself into the collective of our society, offer them that same.

Healing enlightenment and transformation. Well, and there's that word because honestly, when I look at the word enlightenment it's to bring, to eliminate, to bring right, that levity, that lightness of being and. That lightening up we talk about is so funny to me, I'll never forget a day that I was meditating.

Monica 01:15:38
And I started to recognize that if I stopped holding on so tight that I actually started, my body started to shake because it, I realized I was the one holding myself in that. In that density of like, almost like when, when people say lighten up, it really does kind of mean like, like allow yourself to really let go and trust and allow or things to be the way that they are.

And you immediately kind of have this. Revelation of like my God, my God. Right. And that, and I'm saying my God, because it's our access to the divine that, that this messy embodied existence is the way is the path to our divine nature. That it's not out there. It's not it's. We're not, we often will seek it outside of ourselves, but it's actually inside the mess that I want to offer.

That that is where the divine lives where the divine  lives, because we are all divine beings living within a human existence. People need to recognize that about themselves. People need to embrace that about themselves. And, you know, one of the things as, as a healer, as an energetic healer that I tell people, I cannot do this work for you alone.

Liz 01:18:11
I can guide you. I can mentor you. I can teach you. I can give you the healing, but by God, you have to do the conscious work. You have to face within yourself that which we are bringing forth. Up and out of you and releasing, you have to do the conscious work for yourself. You can not depend upon me or any other to do that for you in full it's, a synergistic alignment.

I am a facilitator. I am a channel. I am a conduit of this healing, but you better be prepared. Dig deep within yourself and embrace that mess and let's start moving it forward and transforming it. But people in our, in our society don't want to do that. They want somebody else to fix the mess for them.

And you can't it's it's a completely. The opposing view that anybody can fix it for you in full, they can help you, they can guide you. They can give you the tools 

in which to do it. Ultimately you're your own healer. You can set up there's the conduit to the healing, but essentially at the end of the day, you're the one that has.

Monica 01:19:31
To do the true gritty, messy in our work. And I've loved this conversation because it was messy and it is messy. This is a messy, strange foreign. Beautiful conversation. Right? Because again, I don't, I don't think we have all the language because it's something that I think as a collective to we're we're in it right now.

And. I mean, if there was ever such an incredible opportunity it's now, and I think the more we can normalize this conversation and, you know, and start to bring language to it the better. So I'm hoping, you know, that our listeners got some nuggets from it today. And with time, Liz. I know, and more discussion.

There's so much more here to be revealed. So thank you. Thank you so much for just being willing to go, go here with me today, you know, as usual I've absolutely loved your insights and all you've brought to the table. Thank you.

Liz 01:20:38
Uh, it, you know what thank you because you and I have these beautiful discussions that just organically flow from one subject, one, meaning to the other.

And the reason that that happens is so that we can bring forth all of these different aspects to people. And they aren't going to find those nuggets within different individuals are going to align to different points of the conversation. And as you and I continue to have these conversations, these discussions more and more people, they're going to come into alignment with those different topics, with those different energies.

And the fact that you are allowing this platform to be brought forth. Is so very healing to the individuals who listen and then to the collective, to which we all exist. And so thank you because without your platform and your voice, there would be so many who would be sitting in the darkness and within their own ignorance.

So thank you for honoring me and allowing me to come forward and speak.

Monica 01:21:46
Uh, I love it. I love every minute of it. Thank you, Liz and your listeners more to be revealed.
We hope you enjoyed this episode. For more information, please visit us@jointherevelation.com and be sure to download our free gift. Subscribe to our mailing list. Or leave us a review on iTunes. We thank you for your generous listening and as always more to be revealed. .