75 Gayle Nowak Gayle: You know, I was convinced that this was going to hurt people. You know, I was, this was between the ages of this happened between the ages of nine and 11. And it wasn't until I was 14 that I decided to share this, but I was, I was terrified that I was going to disrupt my family, you know, I was afraid of being taken away. Yeah. And then when I finally did speak up, that's actually not what happened at all. So instead of my feelings, my experience, it was all swept under the rug. I was given a monetary gift and then no one really, you talked about it again for decades. Monica: God. Gayle: Yeah. So I had two lies running, running the show, the first lie being, if I speak my truth, I'll hurt someone. And then when I finally did have the courage to eat that truth, I had the lie of my truth will be ignored anyway. So it's not important. My story is not important. I am not important. Monica: Welcome to the revelation project podcast. I'm Monica Rogers, and this podcast is intended to disrupt the trance of unworthiness and to guide women, to remember and reveal the truth of who we are. We say that life is a revelation project and what gets revealed. It gets healed. Hello everyone. And welcome to another episode of the revelation project podcast. So have you ever noticed just that ever since your business showed up in your life, so have your deepest fears and false beliefs stories and wounds buried deep in your subconscious as well? There's a reason for that. Our guests today, Gayle Nowak says that when you dare to listen to your wounded heart, you begin to heal and free yourself from the pain, fear and false beliefs. Keeping you stuck in your business. Gayle is a transformational retreat leader and founder of the story stylist and a word winning. Expert positioning consultancy for speakers, authors and mission led entrepreneurs. She's passionate about creating experiences for messengers, healers, and entrepreneurial Lightworkers that help them get real about how they truly feel so that they can find the message and story that best positions their magic. As a result, her clients clear their visibility blocks and show up powerfully. To speak and lead from a happy, loving heart. Welcome Gail. Gayle: Thanks Monica. I'm so excited to be here Monica: [00:01:43] uh, I love hearing about that. Just reading about your work a little bit and really kind of, I love this name, the story stylist. Can you start by telling me a little bit more about that? Gayle: [00:01:54] Sure. So my background is actually, uh, my professional background. I started out in journalism. And then I went into marketing and an image engineering firm, and then went and worked as a PR executive at an advertising and PR agency. So I've been in the business of, of stories in different iterations through my entire career. And when I started the story stylist, I really wanted to get into helping entrepreneurs and speakers and authors. Really get in touch with the deeper why behind what they do and really helping them excavate the deeper stories and personal stories around their work. So that's how the story stylists kind of came about. And I really began that journey focused more on, you know, the really practical aspects of it, the marketing aspects, the messaging, the positioning of it all. And you know, that's my, that's my zone of excellence. And what I discovered as I was working with clients is that there was this whole healing. Aspect of working on your story in particular, you know, when you are the face of your brand, when you have to be the voice and the face of your brand, there was a full different layer to the practical aspects. You know, the strategic aspects of working with clients and their stories and what was coming up was that. My client. I started noticing this pattern of like clients coming to me and having like these really deeply personal experiences from their life. And they were sharing these with me and I, they were running into this. Issue of like, do I share this part of myself? Do I get vulnerable? They were getting, I don't know if you remember, this was like seven years ago. So story was like really hot. It was like really coming to the forefront. And so there were a lot of these messages of being vulnerable, you know, having to show up that way, but it's like, that's really uncomfortable. Monica: [00:04:13] It sure. It sure is. Gayle: [00:04:15] Right. It's really uncomfortable. And if you've had experiences in your, and your lifetime where you did show up vulnerable and it wasn't well received. It's even more uncomfortable. And so I started to notice this pattern coming up in my business. And the funny thing is, is that even though I was getting clients right away, when I first started my business, about two years into it, I remember feeling like really frustrated and being really hard on myself that I wasn't further along. And I remember thinking. God, I'm doing all the things. I'm doing all the things. Why am I not making more money? Why aren't I getting more clients? Why, why don't I feel more confident? And I was telling myself that I was doing everything to make my business work. So my brain's telling me you're doing it all. You're doing it all, all the while, knowing deep in my heart. The exact thing I hadn't done. And this was the one thing I never wanted to look at. Nevermind. Talk about publicly, because at that time it was still so. Painful. So as you can imagine, Monica, here I am. I'm working with these clients. I'm telling them to share the deeper truth behind why they do what they do. Monica: [00:05:44] We, we were always the ones, right? It's always, always teaching what we ourselves need to learn. It's just like, it's it never fails. Gayle: [00:05:53] Right. And by whole, my business is called the story stylist. So it's not that I wasn't telling story. I was telling stories. Right. I was trying on all these other stories to see, like, can I find something else that works because I didn't want to tell this story. I didn't want to share. Why I felt so passionate and so deeply about wanting to help soulful entrepreneurs be seen and heard Monica: [00:06:17] Because there was a messy truth there, right? There was a place. Yeah. It was like a, the messy truth was under that . Gayle: [00:06:24] Exactly, exactly. And that messy truth was having suffered in silence for years as a result of child sexual abuse and emotional neglect. And I knew, like I was having this visceral reaction with my clients because I knew in my bones, the loneliness and the shame of feeling invisible and unimportant. And that was why I was, I urged and guided my clients to be vulnerable and to share themselves. Yeah I was terrified. To do it myself. Monica: [00:07:04] So what I'm like, so what happened? What happened? How did, how did you get there? Gayle: [00:07:09] Oh, what happened? Yeah. So I I'll share how I got there, but before we do that, I, I just have to take it back a little bit too. Help you and the listeners understand like why this was so hard for me. So, number one, it took me years to reveal to my family what happened to me because I was afraid that if I spoke up all hell would break loose. You know, I was convinced that this was going to hurt people. You know, I was, this was between the ages of this happened between the ages of nine and 11. And it wasn't until I was 14 that I decided to share this, but I was, I was terrified that I was going to disrupt my family, you know, I was afraid of being taken away. Yeah. And then when I finally did speak up, that's actually not what happened at all. So instead of my feelings, my experience, it was all swept under the rug. I was given a monetary gift and then no one really, you talked about it again for decades. Monica: [00:08:11] God. Gayle: [00:08:12] Yeah. So I had two lies running, running the show, the first lie being, if I speak my truth, I'll hurt someone. And then when I finally did have the courage to eat that truth, I had the lie of my truth will be ignored anyway. So it's not important. My story is not important. I am not important. And so I had some consciously carried that energy right into my business, you know, right into all, all of the aspects of my life, right into my business. And it really wasn't until the revenue rollercoaster in my business got so uncomfortable that I actually dared to listen to what my heart was telling me. And what it was telling me is that somehow, even though I could not make sense of it at the time, right? Like here I am focused on marketing and business and like, how the heck does this story have any connection? But somehow my heart was saying it matters, this matters. And not only did it matter, but it really was the key to breaking through in my business and it, and it really had a ripple effect. On my life. And what I learned, you know, after I finally shared was that it was having a ripple effect on, on other people's lives too. But I had to actually do it like I had to take the action. And the first time that I shared this story, I was, I was launching something and I had this email campaign and, Oh my gosh, Monica. I was so nauseous that entire week. I mean, I just, Monica: [00:09:54] I bet you were, I bet you were. Gayle: [00:09:56] Oh, I was like literally sick, so sick. And so many times I wanted to pull the plug and at the same time, it was just like, there was just, I just had the sense of being guided through this, you know, just, it was a real exercise in really trusting my heart and. I think, fortunately for me, I tend to be a curious creature. So it, that works for me a lot of times in the face of fear that, that, that curiosity could be an advantage. And I was also really frustrated because the month before I delivered that campaign, I had made $14. Okay. So I was like, are you kidding me? $14. Now I had had $0 months in my business before that, but there was something about this $14 that was like a real kick in the gut because it was proof that I could sell something, but just 14. So that was kind of the straw that broke the back. And I was like, look, this is the, this is the one thing I haven't done. Yes. It, I feel sick to my stomach and terrified to do this, but let's just see what's going to happen next. So within three weeks of sending that email. I'd signed on three new clients. I made over $7,800 in sales, which was the most I ever made in my business at that time. And my business continued to grow and evolve ever since. And that's just the, you know, that's just the, the. Money piece, the material piece, you know, and as you say, yeah, that's just one piece of it that we're not even talking about the impact. That's really impossible to track. But as you say in your intro, you know, what gets revealed gets healed. So you can imagine that even though, you know, your story may not look like mine, the listener story may not look like mine. There are likely pieces in this, that ring. True. And it's in that sharing and witnessing where. There's validation and healing and transformation, but to get there, you really have to trust our heart and do the inner work in order to shift out of our wounding and into our healing. Monica: [00:12:08] Uh, I'm, there's, there's so much here. Like I'm just kind of holding my heart right now. I just, I just want you to know, like, first of all, I, I, I just want to, for our listeners, you know, like what what's coming up for me is just, again, how we often it's like, we hide our messes. Right? We hide our message. And yet, for so many of us, I almost want to say all of us, but maybe that's not the case, but I would say for so many of us, our mess is our message. Gayle: [00:12:39] Right. Monica: [00:12:40] You know, to the world. And that, that becomes actually we can, alchemize that trauma and hearing about your story, you know, again, like imagining. What you went through and then sharing it. I have such a similar experience and I think it's no accident that when we connected this morning, I had told you that I was in a really emotional place. Right. And that I wasn't sure why. And here we are, we're, we're kind of coming up on mother's day and there's just, I'm really. Feeling a lot of feelings right now. And you know, and part of that for me is I think I'm going through a new level of healing around my own relationship from, from a childhood wound. And it's so interesting Gail, because I too am writing my story. And so I'm very, very connected recently to kind of some of the unfinished. Business and really facing how to speak my truth and quote unquote position my truth, without it necessarily needing to, you know, be told from a place of victimhood nor hurt those that were involved in the story in my story. Great. So, but what I also want to say is that, you know, it's so interesting what you're pointing to about, you know, that finally telling finally, allowing that vulnerability created this alignment in your life. And I always say like, when we align, it's like we are divine. Like it's suddenly like, there's this ability for us to now attract the miracles into our lives that we just hadn't been able to kind of. Get there until we fully reveal ourselves like mass and all. Gayle: [00:14:23] Yeah. Yeah. And I just want to acknowledge you sharing that, you know, that this healing piece, right. And in particular, when I. It's old wounds for, or ruins that we've been working on for a while that, you know, it doesn't, it may never completely go away. It's a process and it's a commitment and it's a practice. Right. And so I totally honor what you're saying about. Going through this new level of, of healing based on what you've, it's so funny, right? Writing a book like this, this is what I see a lot. Like the visibility pieces will bring these things up and you think that they're gone and buried, but they're not, they're not there. Monica: [00:15:11] They're not. Yeah. And to your point, to your point, Gayle, you know, it's, I have to remindmyself all the time. It's like, it's, it's another layer, Monica, like welcome, right. Embrace. And, and that part about just really being gentle, gentle with myself, because I think we can have the tendency, you know, when, when another layer of healing comes up to be like, Oh, you again, you know, like get really, really frustrated and almost angry and resentful. Well that it's still here like that. Somehow we should be over it by now. And yet when we think about, again like that inner child who was so brave and then had that swept under the rug, right. I have a very similar swept under the rug. It's like, let's just ignore that ever happened. And it's just, yeah. In some ways it's, it's. You don't even imagine that that kind of invisibility would be an outcome, right? It's like, I'm going to share this message truth and be so brave. And now it's just going to be, let's pretend that never happened. Yeah. And I'm often talking about the fact that especially as women we're taught that masses don't belong here, you know, and that they should be somehow associated with shame and that we should build some kind of pretty picture around it. Gayle: [00:16:29] Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that I know in my I experience and, and my, a lot of my clients experience, like we have this ability, you know, and, and I do think that this, this happens it, well, I, I think that this probably happens, you know, just men and women, but women in particular, we have this. Train of thought going around in our head, like we have to make it look up, look good. Right. It has to look good. Everything has to look fine on the outside and we're falling to pieces on the inside. And I really believe Monica, that, that goes back to our conditioning. What you were saying about how were told basically from birth, that feelings are, you know, we have our feelings made wrong. Instead of validated. And so if they're messy in particular, you know, messy feelings in particular, or if our behavior is messy in particular, somebody else's is trying to shut that down instead of just allowing it to be right. Monica: [00:17:44] And there, there it is, right. That, that trauma is not being able to know what you know, or feel what you feel. Yeah. You know, and so, you know, again, I, I think there's just. You know, you and I had talked earlier too about, you know, even raising kids and teenagers and just, it's not. It's not pretty right when you're, when you are trying to break that pattern and you're creating, you know, a different container for, for emotions in your own home. It's like, it's not convenient. Like emotions come up and for us to really be able to be with them as they come is such a gift. It's been such a gift to turn that around in my own life with my own family. As I raise my children. Gayle: [00:18:32] Yeah, I'm so glad that you brought that up Monica, because that's, that's a really important piece of this is to be able to accept and acknowledge what. What we've experienced personally and also to, to appreciate it. And so you've had a, a childhood experience that, you know, you didn't want to necessarily go through. I've got, uh, you know, I've had a childhood experience that I didn't want to go dig and we've had many experiences I'm sure. And yet, would we be having this conversation without them? Monica: [00:19:08] That's right. Well, and it's again, recognizing I think that. It's I always say that. So my listeners are probably like, you know, could say it right along with me, but like no, no grit, no Pearl. Right? Like there's this way that I think we, we need to rub up against, and, and I'm not saying, you know, like, Oh yay. You know, divine trauma, like, let's welcome it. Right. There's a way that we can't, you know, we don't need to be Pollyannish about what happened to us, but to really be able to alchemize, you know, those. Events those occurrences and use them as the disguised gift to communicate are, were reveal our divine purpose in the world to reveal, you know, maybe there's a deeper message that I have to bring from my experience that actually it can be tapped into as a wealth of resources, right? Like that we don't that by. Continually hiding it. We don't get to access anything more other than the pain of it. Gayle: [00:20:16] Right. Monica: [00:20:16] But if we actually dare to move toward the pain, and this was the piece I really wanted to ask you next was really wanting to know, like, how do you guide your clients towards listening to their wounds, to their wounded heart, to really access and. Create from that place. I'd love to know like how do you do that? Gayle: [00:20:40] Yeah. So, and it, and you're exactly right. It's really being, being well. Number one, you have to be committed to doing this work because it's not for the faint of heart and it's not Pollyanna. Then, you know, you may experience really. Heavy and dark things coming up and it's you, we always have a choice. We always have a choice too, to be loyal, to carrying that burden or to actually, you know, give it a seat at the table and name it. I help my clients name. Like, what is that? What is that about for you? What is it that it, that. Is I use the word heart just because it, it, you know, our heart is our emotional center. And so a lot of this work is really working with people who have shut down emotionally. Monica: [00:21:35] Yeah. And I always think about like getting to the heart of it. Gayle: [00:21:38] Right? Monica: [00:21:38] Like there's. There's that way that the heart really does represent kind of that. I, I think what happens, you know, is that we either close down that heart because of trauma, you know, or we open it. And when we open it is, you know, that's where we, and it's so perfect. Right. Cause we pulled the card, give, receive. That's great. That's the only place that, that we're really. Able to kind of create that back and forth flow with life and the world. And so if we're closed down on our side and I just talked about this yesterday in my post on Instagram, I was talking about blocking. I had gotten so good at like blocking emotions. And, but like with it came blocking compliments, blocking insights, blocking intuition, because when that heart center is blocked, you're not, you're not going to get much. Gayle: [00:22:30] Right. That's so true. That's so true. You, you, you cut yourself off from, from opportunity. If you're not able to receive, if you're not willing to be in that vulnerable place to receive the emotions that are coming up, you're just pushing everything away. Everything. It's not just the, the unpleasant uncomfortable feelings. It's everything. Else that you're pushing away as well. And so it's really important for my clients to understand that this is having a ripple effect. You know, this is, this is typically it's showing up in their business. They they're their symptoms of that showing up in their business where maybe they're not, maybe opportunities are coming to them, but they're not really quite aligned or, you know, they're perfectly aligned to the way that they're being in their wounded and they're wounding, but not really. Aligned with where they're wanting to be, how they're wanting to show up. And it's, it takes being willing to go there. But then also being able to name it, like, what, what is that about for you? Why, you know, I had an experience on, on retreat where. You'll like this Monica, cause I know you're, you know, you talk about the, the masculine and the feminine energies and we're doing this exercise around the inner masculine and the, and the inner feminine. And there was this piece about being a victim that came up in the exercise for me. And my coach said, you know, what is it on the list that you would never want to. You never want to feel again. And that was the thing. Like, I never want to feel like a victim again. And she was talking about like, what would it be like to just be willing to be a victim again, to receive that. And it, and it all broke down to vulnerability. Now this is, this is recently, so I'm a work in progress, right? Monica: [00:24:31] We all are. Yeah. Gayle: [00:24:33] So I was, yeah. So I was still kind of carrying around that shut off protective energy of, you know, I'm going to be vulnerable, but only to like, they're going to be. Limits. And there's a difference between the boundaries and the limits, but this was like, I didn't want to be a victim. And so I was shutting down. I was, I was walled off. I was walled off from a piece of myself because I wasn't acknowledging that victim experience. And the thing is you don't have to stay there, but you. You can't ignore it and reject it either. I mean, you can, Monica: [00:25:12] It goes back to this. What I love about what you're saying is it goes back to this power of witnessing, like, you know, we, I'm going to go back to what you said about invisibility, right? Like, uh, one of our basic human needs is to feel seen, right. When we can't feel seen, we can't realize ourselves, like literally we cannot realize ourselves. So it's this paradox at which everything is, but there's also this same idea that our emotions and so much of our lived experience needs to be witnessed and validated by ourselves. Yeah. That it's actually so important and I can so relate to actually the victim. You know, the, the victim example that you gave, because I remember when I first started working with a therapist around exiting my marriage and there was a way that I didn't realize that I had been in an emotionally abusive relationship. And I, you know, so much of that was rooted in not recognizing because that was also my, my experience of love growing up was very kind of convoluted as so many of us, our experiences are it's like entanglement, right? And so in order for me, Like, I just kept blocking, like, you know, this victim sh it's like she wanted, I, I felt like she wanted me to wallow in my victim hood and I was like, I'm not doing it, you know? And she just finally, she was, uh, a very wise woman and she. Kind of put her hand firmly down on her chair and said, Monica, when are you going to get that? It's actually okay. To acknowledge that you had, you were a victim to this without realizing it that's okay. Yeah. And that all of it's okay. And that just by stepping into it and trying it on and being with it. Gives us access to a new way of perceiving it a new way of working with it. But if we're in that blocking mode, we can't do any of that. Gayle: [00:27:21] Yeah. Uh, yeah, I, I so strongly get back that, that visual and, and, and God bless your, your therapist for, you know, really challenging you on that. And, and that's, I feel like that, that's what we're, what we're called to do with our clients sometimes is to really challenge them on how those defense mechanisms, because. When you're doing your inner work, you can see, or you can feel, you know, I have, I get sensations in my body. And so. A lot of times, that's how I kind of work at it. Like, like I use that angle because that disarms them a little bit. So I might say something like, you know, I'm feeling, I'm feeling like my chest feels pressure or my throat feels really tight. Like, are you, you know, how are you feeling in your body? And, and oftentimes they'll say like, yeah, I feel that too. And then we can kind of go deeper into the sensation. That they're having versus going into right away going into, Hey, what happened to you? You know? Monica: [00:28:34] Right. Or the logic around it to actually stay with the sensation that the sensation has a story to tell her wisdom to offer. Gayle: [00:28:42] Right. And that's exactly it asking the questions, you know, what, what is, what is that, you know, just that feeling have a color or shape or a message for you, you know? And, and that's one way to kind of help. People get more into the, definitely get more into their body. Right? Cause a lot of us are up in our minds, mental plane, even us, you know, heart led entrepreneurs are you spend a lot of time up in her, up in her head. And then also inner child healing has been. Gosh, that that that's been a game changer for me. So being able to be with that child that was victimized, right. For example, to really go and reparent for be the caregiver for that child that you wish you would've had, like really can help you to be more receiving to your own experiences and your own feelings and allow those feelings.To come up and be released and be healed. Monica: [00:29:50] Uh, and that's where there's so much on. Unsurfaced emotion I find, right? Is that what, the minute you start to actually allow yourself to imagine and give yourself what, what you needed, what you didn't get at that time. It's, it's such a healing. It's such a generous healing to offer yourself because that was the hardest. Bit for me to do, because there was, there was this, I had such an inner cynic. And what I didn't understand was that this inner cynic was how I survived. Like, you know, you know how you were talking earlier, you know, about these aspects of ourselves. And especially if we've been traumatized, but we. But we all have these anyway, we have multiple aspects, but oftentimes, you know, we create these pieces of ourselves that then act as our protectors and my inner cynic was, was always kind of playing that protector role. But there came a time where I almost had to visualize asking her to kind of step away and allow me to. Nurture this child, you know, that was inside of me and offer this child, you know, words of love and compassion. That was exactly what she didn't get. The cynic wanted to stand there and be like, yeah, give me a break, you know, and roll her eyes and just be very kind of disappear, missive about how self-indulgent it all seemed. Gayle: [00:31:24] Yeah. Monica: [00:31:24] But once I got that, that wasn't. Necessarily me that that was more of a protecting saboteurs, so to speak that it was so much easier for me to be like, okay, I've got this, you know, that was, that, that final frontier was the inner child work for me. And I say final, but of course, like, like we said, it's never done. It's just, it started to. Remember me, you know, that all of these pieces of ourselves that we've been forced to abandon or that we've abandoned exchange for love and belonging in order to, to, to seek our wholeness again, this is the way there it's by remembering and reclaiming these pieces of ourselves that actually helped to bring us back into alignment with the truth of who we are. Gayle: [00:32:16] Yeah, absolutely. And I've loved that you shared that and, and that's a big piece of it too, is acknowledging, acknowledging that that this child needed to need it to be witnessed by you, you know, your own inner child needed to be witnessed and, and validated by you and loved by you. And that you had this inner cynic who did a really great job At protecting when it was needed and to be able to have that conversation and, and, you know, have a sense of gratitude of, you know, thank you for doing your, your work and your, you know, it's okay, I've got this now and, and asking them to asking them, asking herself. Right. I know that, but some yourself. And so it really is. It's deepening that relationship with yourself and really honoring all the, all the aspects of yourself and being grateful for all of it and being, being willing to. To be with all of it. Like it's not necessarily being like, Oh, my inner cynic, you know, like being angry or, or it's like having that sense of that gratitude. Like, cause there was, there was a time and a place for that where you needed that to survive. Oh, Monica: [00:33:35] I have such a, I have such a appreciation for my inner cynic. Like it's now it's such a different relationship I have, and now I can kind of look at her and be like, Oh, there she is. Again, you know, you know, popping her head in here, rolling her eyes and, you know, putting her her. Uh, folding her arms over her heart, you know, and poo-pooing all this touch feely bullshit. She'd say like it's, it's she, so has the voice of my father, which is so funny. Yeah. You know, I also loved my father and of course there was, there's also the way I loved how you. Earlier, you were kind of modeling what it's like to be with your clients when they're in an emotion and using your own, your own inner knowing and your own empathic ability to say like, yeah, my chest is really tight right now is yours. You know, my throat is really tight because I think oftentimes if we're not familiar with how to express ourselves in this way, that modeling is so much a part of getting there. Gayle: [00:34:41] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Monica: [00:34:43] And so I'm, I'm curious to Gail, I would love it. Like if you could turn back time and like talk to your younger self, what would you tell her? Gayle: [00:34:53] I'm so glad that you asked this question because really like, this is, this is what I've been doing for the last two years is, is actually turning back time and talking to my younger self and, and really. Telling her that, you know, she is lovable. You know, you are lovable, you are loved, you are more than enough. You're okay. You're safe. You know, these are all feelings that were lacking for me. I remember Monica. I might've been, you know, seven or eight years old and I was. God, it was just, it was just such an interesting experience. I was hanging out with a friend of mine. I don't even remember what we were talking about, but I remember at one point just looking him dead in the eye and saying, you know, my parents don't love me. I like just, and I was like, And I, I share that and I know like my brain is already working on it. If you could hear that I'm having trouble even just like getting this out. But at that time I was so convinced that that was true. Yeah. I was so convinced that that was true. And you know, obviously it's, I'm telling this to my seven year old friend, who's just kind of like. Looking at me and he doesn't know what to do with that. Right. But I didn't have where I didn't feel like I had any sort of agency or power to, to tell that to someone who could actually help me work through that. Monica: [00:36:27] Uh, yeah. Gayle: [00:36:29] And so that's, and then the other thing, the beautiful thing about having children, right? We were talking about this before we, before we hopped on together, it was, you. Have a choice, right? You have a choice to continue that the patterns that you were raised with, or you have a choice to do it differently. And you and I have, have, have chosen to be more present and more emotionally available and allowing our, our kids to show up exactly who they are as exactly who they are. And there's something about that experience too, that makes it. Easier to go back to my younger self and have that same compassion and to be able to sooth my inner child in the way that would have worked for me, you know? And this is a thing about parenting, right? Like you don't know really how. Whether you've had a traumatic experience or not, like there are just times where your parents don't know how to give you or meet your emotional needs. Right. And it's not, it's not a knock on, on them or anything, but there are just times where those needs aren't met. And so having that, you know, being a parent and having that experience of, of wanting to do it differently, and then being able to bring that back into my own younger self has been hugely healing for me. Monica: [00:38:03] Likewise, likewise, it's really, I've often talked about the fact that my children, you know, at various ages, there was a time where they really were. You know, activating my, my memories from, from my childhood, you know, it was almost like my daughter, especially who, who looks very similar to me, it was like, it was like watching a vision of myself playing something out. I was like, this is bizarre, you know, like, DNA's so bizarre. This is so unfair. And yet of course it was, was, you know, I say that humorously because there were so many opportunities. It's like, I do feel good. Given opportunities over and over and over again, but it is a choice as to whether or not we're willing to really, you know, rub, rub up against that grit, so to speak, you know, it's, it's, it's uncomfortable. I'm not going to say that it's not, but there's a way that we, we get tenderized by allowing ourselves to become. You know, really in contact with those things, you know, and, and get, have a, uh, a practice of being with that discomfort where we continue to remind ourselves it's not going to last forever. It's let's just right. Dip in here for a moment and see if there's some gold. See if we can turn some of that silver into gold. Gayle: [00:39:27] Absolutely. Monica: [00:39:28] Ah, okay. So here's my next question for you? I I'm loving this conversation so much, Gail. Thank you. Gayle: [00:39:35] Thank you. Monica: [00:39:37] So I'd love to know now more about your work with mission led entrepreneurs and how are you seeing them once they're able to really kind of bring their wounded hearts, you know, or allow that part of themselves to really kind of show up in their work.How does that make a difference? What are, what do you see happen? Gayle: [00:39:58] Yeah. So Monica: [00:40:00] or even common. Yeah. Mistake. Yeah. Yeah. Gayle: [00:40:05] If it's okay. Okay. I want to talk a little bit about, you know, how so, so that the listeners can, can get a sense of like how this might be showing up. Yes. And so in order to answer that question, let's talk a little bit about some of the common symptoms I see of wounding that, that come up. In relation to your business in relation to your visibility and not promoting is one that I often see. And here's a thing. Like I work with authors and speakers and entrepreneurs. So you have to promote, right. You have to share your work with people in order to make the impact that you want to make. And it. Some of my clients feel really uncomfortable about promoting themselves about talking about themselves, about talking about their work and really where that comes from is somewhere along the line, we're made to feel wrong about feeling proud of what we create. You know, maybe it's something that happened in childhood where they, they made something and they were brushed off. It could be as simple as that, or it could be a deeper thing. So not promoting looks like, you know, not, it could be not telling your story or it could be not marketing your book or not booking the speaking gigs. And that's really not necessarily like that's not going to lead to a sustainable, successful business, but a lot of the clients that I work with, like for them, it's more about the impact. So how do you impact people when you're not promoting? Okay. So it's really going in deep. And getting to the heart of, okay. What is that really about for you? Like what is, what is this not promoting thing about freedom? Yes. On a surface level, there was some sort of message about, you know, maybe they heard your don't get too big for your britches. And, but there's a deeper, there's something deeper usually going on there. And then when we can energetically and emotionally clear that. They're far more excited and they they're able to understand that, Oh, this isn't about me. This is actually about the people who need to hear about my work. Monica: [00:42:34] Right. Gayle: [00:42:35] It's bigger than me. Monica: [00:42:36] Right. You said energetic clearing. And so what I, what I make up about that is that once that energy is kind of cleared out, it's like, then we're able to really kind of feel into our own. Brilliance our own, you know, unique offer what, what we're really bringing to the world in a much deeper way. And once we kind of internalize that and remember that, right, that, that we are actually worthy because usually under that is something around worthiness or not good enough. And. Right. You know, I raise my hand over here because for me it's always a disguised perfectionism. Gayle: [00:43:14] I was going to say that was another one procrastination. Monica: [00:43:18] Oh my gosh. And it's like, it's just really recognizing, you know, that. That there's a story around that, that there's an energy around that that we're carrying. And so like what you were saying clearing it actually then allows us to make the true impact because to go back to what we were talking about before, when that energy's in the way it's considered a block, an energetic block, and there's that heart not being able to do what it really wants to do, which is that the true desire might. Absolutely be there, but it's being blocked by this energetic, current that's from the past. Gayle: [00:43:55] Right. And getting to the heart of it and being able to clear it is one piece of it. But then it's also deciding like, what's the new energy going to be like, what's the new energy that I want to be in and integrate and practice being in. So I think that this is the place where. I know for me, like in my own healing experience, this is, this is tripped me up. And I think that sometimes this is the missing piece when it comes to healers and light workers, is that it's great to get that aha. And, and that recognition and realize, Oh, I've been, I've been being this way. And then you think, okay, well I'm done with that, but it's not necessarily, it takes a little bit more of that. Like you have to practice, you have to decide what's the new energy going to be. So like for me, I was in that place of, if I speak my truth, I'll hurt someone. And really this was having a major impact on all areas of my life. And it was like, wait, I'm still hurting people by not speaking. Right. I'm hurting myself and I'm hurting other people and I'm hurting these, these aspects of my life. Monica: [00:45:08] There's the paradox. Yeah. Gayle: [00:45:10] Right. So it was like the new energy. That I wanted to be coming from was yo, my truth matters, you know, and it's okay to let other people feel whatever it is that they feel about that. But my truth actually matters. And so it's really deciding and committing to that new energy and practice practicing it. And, you know, we always like, we'll have those moments where we want to go back to the old energy and that's okay. Monica: [00:45:38] Well, I've got a great example of this was, which was just how we greeted each other this morning. I it's like almost, so for me, it's my choice, you know, for how I deal with perfectionism is I tap into the energy of presence. Not. Perfect. So, so it's like by getting present, sometimes it means that I have to express what's here for me right now that might be getting in the way of me wanting to do, do it perfectly Gayle like that this interview today I actually got on with you. And I was like, you know what? I'm feeling really tender this morning. And it's been going on since Saturday. And you know, I've been really in a, in a hard place. And I think I'm, I'm feeling a lot more intensely. And just being able to express that to you got me present. Gayle: [00:46:23] Yeah, and I really want to acknowledge that it would have been, it may have been a lot easier to just send me an email and say, Hey, I'm, I'm not feeling it today. I can remember your schedule and you chose to just show up exactly how you were feeling and look at what we've created together in that. In that space of being really tender and being really present to how you're actually feeling in the moment and how I'm feeling in the moment. I mean, I was certainly feeling, feeling that with you, you know, and I think that that's the beautiful thing about being able to go deeper with our clients. And I, you know, I do private VIP experiences and I do small group retreats. And there's something about that container that really allows you. To go to those deeper places and allows your clients to be, to be witnessed. Like we were talking about to be validated, to really kind of clear some of these denser energies and to create it together. It's like, I don't, I don't necessarily profess to be the guru by any means. Cause I'm, I'm doing this work too. And. It's like, I we're, we're doing it. We're working on it together. Monica: [00:47:45] Well, then there's that feminine again, you know, there's that co-created, you know, really experience. And when we do that, what we're really also doing is creating that community. Yeah. Yeah, that intimacy that really does continue to carry forward with us in our heart. When we feel deeply seen by someone, when we've created that kind of energetic bond with somebody there that's love right there. Gayle: [00:48:12] Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I love it. Monica: [00:48:16] I love it. So what. What advice or tools would you suggest to kind of help our audience listen to their heart so that they can allow what wants to come to life? Come into their lives. Gayle: [00:48:32] Yeah. So I have, I don't know how we, how we're doing on time, but if we have time, I'd love to just walk through an exercise that I take my clients through to help them see the impacts of, you know, sort of being in that wound, woundedness and moving into healing. And then I also have. Uh, what I call the talk to your heart assessment, which is a downloadable PDF that has an accompanying meditation to get you out of your head and into your heart before taking the assessment. And that takes about 20 or 30 minutes to complete. It's a great tool to get present to. What's wanting to be more alive in your business, in your life right now. And the other thing that's really. I love about that tool is that you get to experience how you access and receive and respond to the wisdom and the truth in your heart. So that's, that's a gift for your, for the listeners that you can get over at gaylenowak.com/revelation Monica: [00:49:31] oh, I love that. Gayle: [00:49:33] Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, you know, it take some time to, to, to go through that this week and see what comes up for you. Monica: [00:49:40] Yeah. And let's do the exercise. Let's do it. Yeah. Do our listeners need to be like seated or like not driving or something? Gayle: [00:49:49] Yeah. Well you could, you know, if you are, if you're listening while you're driving, you can kind of go back and listen to this when you're. You know, at home or in your office. And what you want to do is take a piece of paper, draw a line down the middle and yeah, Monica, if you want to do this, Monica: [00:50:08] I'm doing it. I'm doing it. I'm drawing the line right now. Gayle: [00:50:12] All right. Yeah. Awesome. And so on the left-hand side at the top of the page, right? Wounded heart. And then on the right hand side of the page, write healing heart. And so usually what I do is I ask people to take a few minutes to write down what things look like in your business when you're in your wounded heart. So in my example, the obvious thing that was coming up in my business was that my revenue wasn't consistent, some of the less obvious things was that. I was showing up, put together on the outside, but I didn't really feel that way on me on the inside. I wasn't being fully visible because it was emotionally triggering to me. And Monica, if anything's coming up for you. Monica: [00:50:57] Oh my gosh. I'm like, I'm like scribbling, like mad. I'm like scattered tight PR you know, pressured, cranky, hiding, right? Like all the things. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Gayle: [00:51:07] Pressure, cranky hiding. Exactly hiding. That's the big, that's a big one for people, you know, holding back, not feeling good enough. All of those things. And so on the right side, you're gonna write down what's different or possible when you're in your healing heart. So I want to just define that a little bit because the healing heart isn't necessarily after being transformed. It's, it's just being with the emotions. It's just simply daring to listen to what your heart's telling you. So. Maybe that's being more curious than you are afraid or that your desire is greater than your fear. That's what was going on. In my example of that, I had gotten to that place, where was the breaking point? So maybe, maybe it's a certain kind of breaking point. Maybe it's just acknowledging like, Oh, I do this thing, right. I hide out. So. What is it that I'm really wanting instead? What does that, what's the desire that I'm having instead of hiding out. And once you, once you finish your lists, it's really about like looking at them and things will pop up, you know, but really looking at both of those lists and tuning into your heart and asking, and being really honest with yourself. Where are you still allowing your wounding to influence your business or your life? Monica: [00:52:40] Oh my gosh. And the most obvious one that I had didn't even have on wounded was invisible. Yeah. From the childhood wound, which still shows up at times. Right. It like, it's a very real thing. It gets to still be here. It's just, I think that part of the practice is noticing it. And then like you said, being able to choose, and of course this is going to go right on my wall in front of me because on the healing heart side, you know, it was really obvious once I had written down the wounded heart, what the healing, her wants. And I say wants, because I, I really. I love it when I feel clear and calm and flowing and creative and open and present and curious, and bold and generous and intuitive. There's that open heart that when it's here, when it's in the healing heart mode, it's also an open heart. Gayle: [00:53:34] Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. Yeah. And that's the thing, right? You'll see. There's one or two undeniable truths right there on the page right there on the beach. Right. And so, you know, Monica, you can, you know, certainly journal about that and ask more questions, right? Like ask your more questions, maybe ask like what's one action. I can take. This week where I'm shifting out of my invisibility and I'm shifting more into. Being clear and curious and bold. And in that open heart, Monica: [00:54:15] I love that. It's so beautiful. Yeah. And so journaling about it, what I've been really learning about journaling, especially with prompts like that. You know, that if I just allow myself to sit, you know, with a nod here to my current writing coach, Rebecca Gold. She, um, is I'm taking a yoga writing kind of course, with her. It's called from mat to memoir. I love that. Yeah, but it's so great. Cause it's, it involves the body. It's tapping into some somatic. And then I have Brynna as my other book coach. So, you know, I've got a whole team going here, but the idea is, you know, with the prompts that I've really just sit and write without getting into my head and just kind of write from my heart for 10 minutes without, you know, and even if I don't have the words yet repeating the prompt over and over, or, you know, but just allowing my hand to write on the page without letting my head get in the way, I always find that there are nuggets of gold that I come up with. Gayle: [00:55:15] Yeah, that's beautiful. And there is something about, well, your hands, your hands are number one. Your hands are biologically connected with your heart. likely too. And so there is something very healing just about that journaling process as well, whether it's that the automatic writing that you're talking about or really. You know, processing an exercise like this, but there's something about getting it out of, out of your head and in, and through your body and out onto the page that starts to bring it into reality. It's manifesting out of your thoughts and emotions and into the physical. And that's where we can start to take action that serves us versus hanging onto the things that don't serve us anymore. Monica: [00:56:08] That's right. That's right. Well, you know, and again, get like, this has just been such a delightful. Organic, very organic conversation. I just feel, you know, I'm always kind of divinely guided to talk to the next right. Perfect guest for that. Everything it's always just amazes me that it's like the perfect conversation for where I'm at right now. And of course, I'm, I'm going to make up that there are many of our listeners that might be in the same exact place. And so I really invite all of our listeners to really just welcome this idea of. You know, kind of what's, what's here underneath the surface that we might be unintentionally blocking, and that might be Natalie impacting our, our businesses, but our lives and our, and our wellbeing and our happiness and that we, we owe it to ourselves. You know, we are, we are the first example. Of how the world is to be in relationship with us. And so there's a way that kind of getting to the heart of it, so to speak is where we start to realign with what is true and real so that we can. Experience the best life we're here to experience. So thank you again, gal for just being here and your generosity and sharing with us and yeah, it's just been wonderful. Gayle: [00:57:32] Thank you so much for having me Monica. I've had so much fun talking about this and, um, I really appreciate the opportunity to, to share with you and speak from the heart with you and with your listeners. Monica: [00:57:45] Uh, well, and we'll make sure to put everything in the show notes and if you want to go back and of course, to get that free gift, Gail, do you want to say that URL one more time? Gayle: [00:57:56] Yeah. Sure. So you can grab the, talk to your heart assessment at. gaylenowak.com/revelation And I also invite you to connect with me on Instagram at the @story stylist, and I'm on LinkedIn and gaylenowak.com . And you can also check out my website at thestorystylist.com. Monica: [00:58:17] Love that. All right. Well, there you have it. And until next time more to be revealed, We hope you enjoyed this episode. For more information, please visit us@jointherevelation.com and be sure to download our free gift, subscribe to our mailing list or leave us a review on iTunes. We thank you for your generous listening and as always. To be revealed.