83 Bethany Harvey Bethany: Bethany: When I was writing it, I was writing it to myself and about myself. Revealing to myself, what I needed to learn or do. And so if other people are able to see themselves in the book and that helps them with their process, I think that that's a beautiful thing. I think that when you talk about things happening over and over again, when you were saying that about not being able to catch a break. What was going through? My head was just like, wake up, Bethany, wake up, wake up, wake up, wake up. Cause I feel like that's kind of what was happening, right? Like the universal SmackDown, like you, aren't getting this message that you need to be honest about how you feel and deal with it. Just carrying on, like, everything is fine all the time. Monica: [00:00:00] Welcome to the revelation project podcast. I'm Monica Rogers, and this podcast is intended to disrupt the trance of unworthiness and to guide women, to remember and reveal the truth of who we are. We say that life is a revelation project and what gets revealed. It gets healed. Hello everyone. And welcome to another episode of the revelation podcast. Today I have such a special guest, a dear dear friend who is launching her very first book. Again, my heart is almost exploding this morning because the person I'm bringing to you is, as I mentioned, someone that I have known for several years and have a particular fondness for Bethany, Harvey is the author of Dipped In It.. Which is a memoir that chronicles her self-imposed odyssey of self discovery after she was devastated by the sudden loss of her beloved father, as she navigates the unpredictable spiral of grief, she openly shares the heartbreaking gritty. Mm. Unexpectedly hilarious insights that surface while she continues to respond to a universe that never stops dealing the next day. Hey Bethany. Bethany: [00:01:28] Hey Monica. Monica: [00:01:30] So we're doing it. We're we're late here. You're you're like about to publish your book. Well, it is in the process of being published and will officially launch next week. Bethany: [00:01:44] Yes. Next Friday.July 9th It is a little bit surreal right now. And I was talking about this last night with a friend just about the genesis of our relationship and how I think very wounded and lost. We both were. And thinking about doing this today with you and this wonderful podcast that you have, that you. I'm just so impressed by, and I have a book coming out next week. And if you had told the two of us 12 years ago, that we would be sitting here today, having this conversation like this. It's just some unfathomable. Monica: [00:02:23] It is. It's like that unrecognizable kind of life that you look back and I'll give our listeners a little bit of context because it's also a bit humorous. I mean, it's so true. We were both kind of in the thick of our own. Misery, I would call it. I know that you had a specific blessing at the same time that we had really kind of started to form a friendship, which was when you had the birth of your daughter Ruby, correct? Bethany: [00:02:53] Yes. Monica: [00:02:53] And so I had suffered from postpartum depression as I've shared so often on episodes through the podcast. And I think that was really when we started to develop that friendship between us, where you had called. Kind of learned that I had also gone through that and Ruby's birth had been a difficult one, correct? Bethany: [00:03:16] Yes. It had been, um, it's funny, I guess this is how it happens on podcasts, but I didn't really think we were going to be talking about postpartum depression, but here we are, Monica: [00:03:25] Here we are. Bethany: [00:03:26] Yeah. I mean, it's a bewildering experience to wake up every morning and you have this most beautiful baby and. I would wake up and just cry. And you are the only person. And I really only knew you very peripherally who had ever talked to me about postpartum depression or that I had ever heard discuss it, which is something I've learned about you over the years, which is. You do have these very deep conversations just on the fly. Um, I heard one of your friends say, I think it was at your, um, your birthday when people were just speaking about their experiences with you. And I cracked up laughing because she made some comment about, and it was just a real quick and I don't even know if anyone else caught it, but to me it was hilarious. She said something about. You talking to the mailman about postpartum depression or something like that. And you're the only person she knew who had ever talked to postpartum. I think she was obviously making a joke, but I was like, that's how I, that's how I got to know Monica is because I heard you talking about it. And I knew that was what was happening with me, but I literally didn't know anybody else would ever. I'm sure. I know people who have had postpartum depression, but I've never heard anyone actually talk about it. Monica: [00:04:51] Right. Bethany: [00:04:51] So I didn't even, we didn't know each other well enough for me to even have your number. I got it from somebody else and called you and. It was just the most remarkable experience for me. You booked an appointment for me with the acupuncturist, a wonderful healer, and met me there, held my baby during the appointment. And I didn't even know until, I think years later that you were in a horrible place then, which made it all the more remarkable to me that you. We're in this very broken place herself and just leapt right in to helping this person who you barely knew and that's who you are. Monica: [00:05:36] Yeah. Thank you. I received that. Totally. And it's true. And I also, Bethany feel like sometimes. You know, we're just, I was just at that point in my life where I was learning to trust everything that was just coming to me. Like even though I was in a very broken place and as you know, cause we're about to launch into dipped in it. It's also a very dipped in it place when that breaking open happens. Like we don't think that it's going to be as fruitful. As it is, it's almost like I think about that darkness. I've started to think about that darkness as the soil or the soul. That's starting to come to life to starting to like that seed is cracking open within us. That leads us to a more conscious way of being and you're right. Like that was what was happening. And it's so cool to look back and again, recognize that years later. Almost now 12 years later, I don't know the exact math, but here we are. And you're about to publish a book because after I had gone through my big dark night of the soul, you, I think we're going through parts of it. And then kind of, you had this big cracking open experience, which I don't want to plant words here. I would say happened with the death of your father. And I'd love for you to kind of talk more about that and also where the term dipped and it comes from. Bethany: [00:07:09] Okay. So dipped in it is an expression that I've learned. Not that many people know about. Someone told me that her Southern relatives say that someone is fully dipped.. So dipped in it is an expression that my father would use. When I pull out some sort of unexpected victory, or he would use it a lot in, you know, for playing a board game or a card game and just in life, when things happened that I just sort of seem to follow into which, which was the truth for me. And. So I think carrying on the metaphor, I think when my father passed away, I fell into it big time, but it was in a much different, I think there were several years of big transitions and challenging things that were happening for me. And at every turn I was I'm. Okay. I'm okay. I'm okay. I'm okay. And then my dad died and I was not okay. So. I would say that losing him is, and was a terrible tragedy and would have devastated me no matter what. But I think for me, with all of the holding together that I was sorry, all of the holding together that I was trying to do, it was like my body and my mind just said, yeah, you can hold this together anymore. So. It all just poured out, ended up being very cathartic when that was not what I wanted. I didn't want to feel it all Monica: [00:08:54] Right. Bethany: [00:08:54] But you know, as you said, it turns out to be a gift, but for me, I just wanted to skip over it. I wanted to skip over the very difficult emotions, you know, grief is. Just such a small word, but it contains so many other big feelings, anger, frustration, confusion, sadness. It's, it's a big cocktail. Monica: [00:09:24] It is. It certainly is. And I don't think, you know, we know how to do grief in our culture. Bethany: [00:09:32] Well, it's, it's what I have found. And I, I think. Some of this is not, I don't know if it's fair to say it's cultural, maybe it is. But I do think it's it's self-imposed often is that we feel that grief is supposed to have a specific timeline and, you know, an expiration date. And so for me, I kept thinking. Okay. Well, it's been a month. Okay. Well, it's been two months. Okay. Well, it's been three months. When, when does this stop actually? Yeah, like I was gonna wake up one day and okay. Well, it's been 60 days or 90 days. I must be done now. And. That's not how it works. Monica: [00:10:17] It's not how it works. And of course you and I have often traded so much information. Like once you did start, really, I think writing, I would come across articles or you would come across articles and we would start sending them to each other about grief and other people's kinds of perspectives on grief, which has been so helpful to me again, because I think that. When you have experienced the level and the depth of grief where you're just kind of in the mass, so to speak as I always call it, it's just, it's that moment where you can look at another human being and nobody is trying to make you fix it or put a pretty bow on it. They can just look at you and say, I know, like I know. I'm here and there's something that's just so soothing. And so, I mean, even when we're in the darkest moments of it, it's just so helpful to be able to look up. And of course, there's that metaphor that you always talk about, about drowning. And it's like, you know, when you're. Just needing that person to say, to look at you and say like, I see you, are you okay? Bethany: [00:11:37] But for me it was even just allowing myself to answer that question honestly. Monica: [00:11:43] And so Bethany, I'd love for you to tell the story of how that really began through like the gratitude practice. Bethany: [00:11:53] Uh, for those listening know that Monica just used air quotes around gratitude practice. So a couple of months after my father died, I had decided that I was done with grieving and done with feeling like I wanted to crawl out of my own skin. And in my mind, I thought a person can't be grateful and be grieving at the same time. So what I, when I was in the lowest place that I've ever been in my life was I decided to get on Facebook and tell everybody that I was going to write a gratitude post every day for 365 days. And. I mean, if there's anyone that was just like desperate to get out of that situation, like I'm not going to be grateful for a week or a month. I'm going to be grateful for a freaking year. And I thought that by doing that, and I didn't realize it at the time, but I know now that I thought that by doing that, I could just skip over the grief because it wasn't possible to feel both of those things at the same time. And so I started out with my gratitude journal and not to come down on anybody who makes gratitude posts. I always read them when people do them on Facebook. I think it's a wonderful practice. I think it's wonderful daily practice, even when you're not, you know, no matter what's going on in your life. However, when you're completely drowning, it's not, for me, at least was not the lifeline that I needed. So I started out writing these gratitude posts and I guess it felt good a little bit, but it also just felt hollow. And I realized that I didn't really want to write about how I loved baths with lavender oil or, you know, that was not, that was not going to get me where I needed to be. So I realized. What was going to save me more than gratitude was just humility and being honest about how terrible I felt and how I did want to crawl out of my own skin. And so I decided to write about that instead. And, you know, as you said, All of these people around me. I started to hear people say back to me or type back to me, you know, me too, I'm drowning too, or I see you and I I've been there and I know how you feel. And I found that the more authentic and honest I was about the heavy feelings, the more people related to it. And also. It was like this weird thing where people related to it, it resonated with them deeply, but also there was this feeling like people would say to me, I can't believe you're, you know, you're talking about this, you're speaking about these things that I, I haven't been able to articulate, or I haven't felt comfortable articulating. And so the book basically was birthed from there. Although I didn't realize it at the time. I was doing some interview questions recently. And I was asked, you know, did you know at the beginning of it that you were writing a book and the answer of course is no. I mean, there definitely were times when I thought that the only. Tangible printed record of what I was reading that was going to be available was in the three ring binder that my aunt was keeping. And she printed out every single thing that I ever wrote on. Monica: [00:15:47] I don't think your aunt was alone by the way. I think a lot of people were printing out look and just, I just want to frame also for our listeners. As a witness to this process, first of all, let's go back to the 365 days because I remember kind of a side text, you being like, are you nuts? Like you just committed to doing a 365 day gratitude post per day? Like, are you crazy? Bethany: [00:16:13] And you are such a stickler too. You know, get to be like you're o'clock five o'clock and you'd be like where's today. Monica: [00:16:23] Thing you guys was, that was so amazing. Was as Bethany started to really kind of get more and more transparent, it was like reading the things that she wrote was like life-giving it was like, suddenly I could breathe. I talk about that a lot, because I think for me there. So much truth in the depth and we're conditioned in this culture to kind of live in the shallows and to not go deep and to kind of avoid or to get busy again. And so that we bypass or step over so many, I think of the essential things that we need to process and reveal in order to heal. And so here she was writing from her heart. It was like, it just started pouring out. And the cool thing as the witness was to watch just suddenly so many people that were sharing and commenting, and it was like watching. I don't know, it was like watching kind of the transformation of a butterfly, you know, literally go from this very dormant cocoon state. And then over the course of that year, just really seeing how many people started to just consume your writing because it was. An extension or a reflection of something in their heart. It was like, it gave them permission to be able to say, yeah, me too. Like, I, it was just really profound to watch. And of course that was that paradox that you were thinking you would write about gratitude. And of course, what you learned was that gratitude. And grief and many other emotions I'll get to belong there in the same space. Bethany: [00:18:21] Yes. And the interesting thing for me that started to happen with sharing more vulnerable things was the more nervous I was about hitting post on something. The more my hands shook, the more I maybe sent it to you on the side and said, am I crazy? Publishing this, the more people it resonated with. And it was also interesting witnessing what topics I wrote about, because it wasn't all about grief started out that way. But I wrote about divorce and trying to get back into the dating game after 14 years and getting my heart broken and parenting and. Going through the grief process with siblings and lots of other things that happened during the course of my writing. But the interesting thing for me was always when I wrote something and I immediately got side messages, which is something, you know, of course, people who are reading my blog or my Facebook posts don't know, but occasionally I'd write something and it would just blow up. My Messenger because people wouldn't feel comfortable going onto the Facebook feed and saying me too, but they were on the side. Like, how did you know, did you read my diary? Oh my God, this is exactly how I feel. Or this is exactly what happened to me. And I really treasured those messages because it. To have these people out there. Some people that I knew before and some people that I've never met and may never meet who resonated so heavily, it just really brought home for me, how universal all of these emotions are. And we love to, we love to say how the, all of the, you know, everyone experiences, joy and happiness and all those things. But the emotions of shame and fear and overwhelm. Those are all. Equally universal, but we just don't like to admit to those, Monica: [00:20:40] Right? Yeah, we sure don't and those were the ones that were the scariest to post, like the ones that actually revealed shame or fear or overwhelm. Why do you think it's so important for us to tell our story? Bethany: [00:20:55] Well, I think for, you know, the very reasonable. Explain, which is like we're sitting here feeling overwhelmed, feeling ashamed, feeling, broken, feeling, you know, just confused and scared. And we often think we're the only one. So for someone else to stand up and talk about those things and everyone can kind of breathe a sigh of relief. I'm not alone. Somebody else feels this way. Somebody else has felt this way and the other doing better, you know, just, I think it's, for me, it's been equally important to connect with people who have been in the shit with me at the same time and people who I see who have been through it and are not, are no longer in it at the moment. Because the other thing that I learned through the course of writing this book is that there's never an end game. You're always going to be falling in the well and then climbing back out again and then falling into well and climbing back out again. And the valuable thing that I learned was. Number one, that's going to keep happening because life keeps happening and you might have this victorious moment of emerging from the well, and you might have a long period of time where there isn't another one, but there's always going to be another one. So I think that the most valuable thing that I learned was that I could get out of it. I could get out of the well, and each time I had to get out of it, it was easier. And also. That I learned the value of being down there. And that being in the well was always a rich place for me to discover more about myself Monica: [00:22:49] MMMM I love that, you know, metaphorically it's like the down there, because it is such, it's like I've often noted. That soul dive is kind of that way that we. Go down there. It's like, it is actually, uh, like a down, it's like a down motion and that when we come up again, we've actually often got a treasure that we found down there. Absolutely. And. Right. And then there's so many of us are so scared that we're not going to be able to get out of the well. And so, and I remember even saying that having this period of time where. I was actually processing a tremendous, almost like just a backlog of griefs and emotions that I had never allowed myself to truly feel including the death of my own father, which really happened, you know? In 1991. So like we're going back however many years. And it was only, you know, at some point in the last, I believe it was even when I went through my own CTI training. Five years ago or whatever it was that I finally processed some of that old grief. And I remember saying to the, uh, head coach at the time, like, I'm so afraid that I'm never going to get out. Like if I allow myself to go this deeply into this well, that I'm never going to come out, you know? And it's just this, like, You do come out like you, you learn to trust that your body will know when it's time for you to come back to life. Like to come back from that journeying down in the depths, you know, and to come back to life with that disguised gift, whatever. Insight or that revelation is that we bring to the surface and sometimes it's just, I survived. Right. Like I didn't die. And sometimes it's like, we learn something so profound about ourselves, but sometimes it's about a reclamation, you know, and really finding a part of ourselves that we had abandoned a long time ago. Bethany: [00:25:16] Yeah. Honestly, I think that. I could have written for 365 days about people and places and things that I was grateful for, but I'm so glad that I didn't. I'm so glad that I just honored how I was feeling and not trying to point at all of the reasons why I shouldn't be feeling that way, but just allowing myself to feel how I felt. I think the biggest gift that I've given myself in my life is just that allowing myself to be honest about where I was Monica: [00:25:57] And the book itself, Bethany, I just want to congratulate you because first of all, it's so beautiful. So I got to actually hold a physical copy in my hands last week at the born to rise story evening, where Bethany actually spoke and. You know, it's just gonna be such a wonderful celebration to see all of those physical copies and know that so many people will be out there with those copies. So I'm wondering like full, first of all, I wanted to ask you, if you would read maybe one of your favorite pieces to us, just to give us maybe snapshot, but I also wanted to let our listeners know that again, like I go back to. Some of what I've learned about Bethany over the years, which is, she's like a surprise ball. Like you, you can keep unwrapping and like prizes fallout at random, like it's and the humor is like the moment you think, oh my gosh, my heart is open and I'm sitting here like with bawling tears. And the next minute I am having a belly laugh because the way that she brings levity and humor, And it's not to take us away. It's literally like her, her thought process, you know, as she's going through her own writing and it gives us again, I go back to like giving us not only permission to say me too, but permission for all of us to know that we're not alone. And like, don't forget to laugh because sometimes in these darkest moments, when we can actually bring some levity and some humor and just. Take ourselves so seriously knowing that yes, some moments are devastating, but that there's other moments kind of when we're going through life, that it's just important to remember and to reach for kind of that levity and humor that can actually lift us and bring us kind of back up for that breath of air. And again, I think often of your drowning story, and maybe that's when you might want to read, Bethany: [00:28:04] Thank you for all of. I don't think there's a story specifically about drowning. That was just a story that I told for born to rise that wasn't actually from, from my book, but, uh, That was just something that I had been thinking about afterwards about relating the story about me when I was 12 years old, drowning, and, uh, not wanting to admit that to anyone around me and then moving forward into feeling a similar sense of drowning in my marriage for myself and for my spouse and still not wanting to. And I think that seems to me that that's something that is pretty common for many people. And I was going to say when many women, but I think it's true for men as well. Just not willing to admit that we don't have anything. Everything handled. You know, it's like the water is literally going up your nose and you're just, I'm fine. I'm fine. Monica: [00:29:14] And everything was okay here looking pretty, like pretty picture over here. And yet you're like drowning and I loved, I loved in that and I, I loved to Bethany that you brought up that drowning doesn't look like drowning. Bethany: [00:29:31] Yeah, that is a very, I think important piece of the whole drowning metaphor is literal, literal, drowning. Doesn't look like drowning. There's not the splashing and shouting and you know, big Mo movements. It's just actually what happens a lot is this sort of. Response in the body just to, I think, conserve resources and just kind of shut down. So people's arms, aren't playing around and you know, the only thing that sort of gives them away is this, you know, why that look of terror? I think. And when I look back into, you know, how I was feeling at that point in my life of knowing that my marriage wasn't working out, but also feeling like. I couldn't, you know, divorce was not an option for me. And I made a commitment and just feeling chaps there, but not wanting to, not wanting to admit to anyone that I was drowning, that we were drowning. And I even had a conversation with my mother the other day, where I asked her, you know, when, when I sat down with you and told you that, okay, Probably getting a divorce. Was that really a surprise? And she said, absolutely. I had no idea. And I think, I just think that we, we all tend to do this horrible disservice to ourselves of this sort of like faking it till we make it, or, um, image above, above all, you know, if everyone else thinks. I'm happy then I must be happy or that it matters to me more that other people think I'm happy than actually, if I am being happy. Monica: [00:31:23] Yeah. Bethany. I remember, you know, we have a mutual friend and I remember her asking me, Monica, are you happy? You know, and I remember just kind of cocking my head to the side. This is, you know, when I was in the thick of all of it and hadn't yet myself gotten my divorce or, you know, wasn't there yet. And I just remember thinking like, happy, like, what is that? Is that even an option? Right? Like, do I even know what that means? And of course at that time in my life, I had forgotten what that felt like. I really had. Bethany: [00:31:57] Yeah. Isn't that interesting. Forgotten what that felt like. And it was interesting to me that the particular people who I wasn't fooled, right? Monica: [00:32:08] Like who like who? Bethany: [00:32:10] Well, my cousin, Eric was the first person in my family that I told that I was getting a divorce. And his response was I'm sorry about your marriage, but I'm actually really happy for you. You haven't been yourself for a long time. And I remember being shocked by that. And I don't know it was, it was a moment for me because I thought, who have I been if I haven't been myself? Who have I been? And so I. The next few years were really about figuring that out. Who am I? Who am I? Who am I now? Like not wanting to go back to the person I was before, but rediscovering who I was armed with the life experiences that I had had. Yeah. So our listeners are probably cluing into the fact that you. You didn't just deal with the loss of your father. It was death divorce, and a number of other things that I remember at one point saying to Austin, she cannot get a break. It was literally like every time you, you would try to get back up, it was like the universe SmackDown, something else would happen. And I just remember just having that same experience, you know, and really feeling it. Just witnessing you in the thick of, it was a way of, again, kind of seeing not only you and what you were grappling with, but in many aspects, it gave me a vantage point into that time in my own life and how courageous and brave and willing right and abel. There's so many ways that we can deny, like you said earlier, like we do ourselves such a disservice when we keep pretending or we get back into the business of our lives or we, you know, in some of us aren't given, it's like just no way. There's no way we can get back up because we just keep getting smacked back down. Like there are those. Those true experiences where sometimes it's like, I can't, I look back and I think like, how did I get through that? And I have that same experience. When I think about all of the ways that you just kept being dealt, like in your intro, another hand and watching how that was going to play out. And of course I make up, that's so much of your processing about who am I now happened through your writing? That it became literally like a lifeline. To you. Absolutely. Monica: [00:34:58] And now it's a lifeline for others. Bethany: [00:35:00] And I think, I hope so. I mean, I hope that is the unintentional gift because I certainly didn't sit down to write a self-help book or a book about how to get through grief. When I was writing it, I was writing it to myself and about myself. Revealing to myself, what I needed to learn or do. And so if other people are able to see themselves in the book and that helps them with their process, I think that that's a beautiful thing. I think that when you talk about things happening over and over again, when you were saying that about not being able to catch a break. What was going through? My head was just like, wake up, Bethany, wake up, wake up, wake up, wake up. Cause I feel like that's kind of what was happening, right? Like the universal SmackDown, like you, aren't getting this message that you need to be honest about how you feel and deal with it. Just carrying on, like, everything is fine all the time. It's not serving your journey, your higher purpose. It's it's not the truth. Monica: [00:36:27] And I like to think Bethany that we pre-agreed to these wake up rituals, that they're, that they're not. That that universal two by four is something previously agreed to. Like we come here to wake up at a certain time and there's a series of events that happens for us to be able to do. Maybe it's a little bit like Pollyanna and hell, but I like to, but I like to believe that everything is happening for us, you know, for our awakening. And it's hard to say that when you have, it's like, I can look at what has happened. And especially when we face death or we lose somebody. If I can't look at that and say, oh, yay, good. But there's a way that I think we know. Life is finite in this body that we're, that we have a period of time in which to live our lives and where as my father used to say, not getting out of this alive. And so, you know, and I know your dad was also somebody who. You know, it was kind of famous for those one liners and so many great pieces of wisdom and advice to give you over the years, which is why he, you guys were so close, you know? And so the loss of him was so tragic and terrific in so many ways in, in, um, just really, you know, knowing that his exit was. Part of your awakening has its own kind of gift right there. You know, that, that he has continued to live on in your life in such a profound way. Bethany: [00:38:16] Yeah. It's one of the stories that I, so throughout the book, there are stories just about conversations that I had with my kids and who were, you know, about eight and 11 at the time. And one of the conversations that we had was about the gift of things, not working out the way that we wanted them to. And so I was having this conversation with Ruby about it. You know, uh, my getting my heart broken and, uh, you know, she said something like, oh, that's sad. She was at, it was, she was asking me about my problems, junior prom and senior prom. And who did I go with? And was it, was he my boyfriend? And I was talking about how, you know, Went to the prom with me and he wasn't my boyfriend, but I really wanted him to be, and he was later, but he ended up breaking my heart and she said, oh, that's sad. And I said, it's not sad at all. Because if that hadn't happened, you actually would not exist. My life went in a different direction. And she said, oh well. And I said, well, you know, things that seem really hard and sad at the time are actually. Sometimes our best gifts. And she said, well, what about Papa dying? And I said, well, it's harder to see it as a gift when someone dies way to call me out on not making sense for my, my little story, they have a way of poking holes in things, but Beau, Beau was sitting nearby and she said, I know what the gift is. Monica: [00:40:03] Wise Beau Bethany: [00:40:07] She said before Papa died. I really loved the people that I loved, but when someone really important like that dies, it just makes you love everyone so much more. And so there's definitely the little gift there of just realizing how important the people are that we love. Right. Just really honoring them. One of the things that I did when I was doing my writing and you've used it, no, not really in the book, because like I said, my, my aunt has the three ring binder with all of the entries in it. But one of the things that I did when I was having a day when I just didn't really, cause I, I did still, I guess we haven't really shared this in the podcast, but I did still write something. Almost every day for 365 days. So on the days when I was inspired to do so, or when I wasn't really sure what I wanted to write about, I would choose someone in my life that I loved and I would write about them. And I think just the practice of sitting and thinking about just that particular person and why you love them and what it is that you love about them. Finding the words to articulate that is such a beautiful process and then such a gift to, to you and to the other person, to be able to share that with them. This is, this is how I see you. This is what you are to me. I really love it doing that throughout the, throughout the year. Those are in the binder Monica: [00:41:51] And some are in the book in . All right. Well, what are you going to read to us? Oh, Bethany: [00:41:56] Well, so you're kind of throwing this at me, but Monica: [00:42:00] You know what I get to, Bethany: [00:42:02] So I don't, I mean, I could like, Monica: [00:42:05] Do you need me to help you decide? Bethany: [00:42:07] Yeah. I mean, I could just read. From the beginning, or I could say that the way that the book is set up is, you know, it was written in a linear way. And there are things that there are flashbacks that I write about sort of like how I got to this place that I was in. And, and then there were also just things that were happening in real time that were hard. And I. I don't want to read anything. That's going to reveal something to somebody that they didn't previously know that might take some of the, um, pleasure out of reading the book. Monica: [00:42:44] I know which one I know it's one. Okay. Okay. Armpit heart. Bethany: [00:42:50] That is such a, that is such a funny one because I like it's one that people mentioned to me, which is such a little light. You know, there are things that I wrote that took me hours to, you know, choose the right word and know what I wanted to say. And this was just like right there just popped out. And I don't know why, but it stuck with some people, which is funny to me. Okay. Armpit heart. My daughter, Ruby handed me a warm, soft, beautiful heart made of bees wax. This is for you. She'd be. Oh, that's so sweet. I said, thank you. I warmed it up in my armpit. She explained, oh, um, lovely. I smirked, we giggled, but I was thinking, stay with me because who doesn't love metaphors about armpits is the beeswax heart, unless tender offering because of where it has been. Can we assume that every heart has been through something. What if we are open and honest about what our hearts have endured? What if we speak of them and clear unwavering voices? What if we take the risk to say here's my heart? Let me tell you of the dark places it has been. Do you still think it's. Will you keep it? Monica: [00:44:15] I cry every time when I hear that. Okay. And in order to be fair that, uh, this is a, um, Austin always tells me that we need to always be fair with our children. And I remind him always that life isn't fair and that I won't. To be fair. I would love for you to read one. That ha is about Beau. Okay. I'm going to call her the wisdom. Bomber is Beau did the cover of your book. She's an incredible artist. She's Bethany's eldest daughter and she is just so wise. She's always. Coming to situations with a perspective. I think that always assisted. So everyone around her and Ruby in her own right. Also is so just both kids and I love the way that you write about them and include them in your storytelling. Bethany. It's so beautiful. Bethany: [00:45:26] I want to give a little shout out to Ruby, just because we started this conversation talking about postpartum depression. And I will say that the, the irony of Ruby is she was a very difficult delivery. And then I went through that postpartum depression and she is absolutely the most easy going joyful. Loving child. So I don't know. I just feel compelled to say that because you know, here, we're talking about Beau and she does have all of this wisdom and, and Ruby does too, but I feel like Ruby's wisdom is more and just being able to go with the flow and she's just light. Monica: [00:46:13] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Talk about levity, right? Like she really has that lightness too. Bethany: [00:46:18] Yes. Um, okay, so,well, I could just read the one about imagination. I could read. The super powers one Monica: [00:46:38] Do that one. Bethany: [00:46:39] The super powers one. Yeah. Okay. So people know there's some levity in the book and it's not just going to make them cry from start to finish. Monica: [00:46:49] There's so much levity in it. There's so much in it, just across the board. It's just, okay. So I'm going to make a comparison. It's probably not fair to compare, but I've seen so many people do it and it's true. I put you right up there with, you know, Glennon, Doyle and how she writes. I just think there's. And there's a very stark difference with how you're right. But I think that what you both have in common is this ability to write about things from the depths of your soul and to bring perspective and levity so that others can see themselves in it.It's just extraordinary. So Bethany: [00:47:30] Thank you. I take that as a huge compliment. Okay. This one is called super power. The girls and I sat on our porch together taking in the view of Narragansett bay. I was in general, my morning coffee while Louis our lab lay nearby, chewing on an enormous log seemingly out of the blue, both said if I could have a superpower, it would be extra strong teeth laughing. I asked what would you wish to do with extra strong? Chew logs. She exclaimed with an expression that said, isn't it obvious? Um, why seems like fun. She shrugged. So let me get this straight. I said incredulously, if you could choose a superpower, like flying, being invisible mind reading, you would choose to have extra strong teeth. Couldn't I have more than one superpower. She asked then considering this further, she had. I wouldn't want to fly for one thing because I love to climb. And if I could fly, I'd just get like lazy about my climbing Ruby interjected. I would choose to be able to bring people back from the dead, with a lump in my throat. I replied that would be pretty amazing. Beau shook her head emphatically. You can't do that. They're soul has have already left their bodies. So you'd basically be waking up zombies that would make you a villain, not a superhero. Clearly she had pondered this offering an alternative. I said, what if you could time travel, then you could visit people have passed away. Instead of bringing them back from the dead. Both said thoughtfully only if it was just to be able to watch like a movie, but not actually do anything over. Wouldn't that be hard. I asked if you went back in time and watched yourself in a situation and you wished you had done or said something differently, wouldn't that be difficult to see your mistakes and not be able to change any. No, because everything happened for a reason. Even the thing is we think our mistakes, we learn from things like if I break my friend's leg by accident and she doesn't want to be my friend anymore. So I meet a new friend who I wouldn't have met if I still had the other friend with the broken leg. So if I went back in time and I don't break her leg, maybe she's still my friend. She has me hanging around with some other kids who aren't very. And I would never know. I could have had this other grade friend. So breaking your friend's leg accidentally actually kept you from falling in with the wrong crowd. Exactly. You are very wise. I said, meaning every word recapping both said so strong teeth time traveled just to observe. And the third arm, a third arm, I laughed. Yes, so I can lean back and relax with my two arms behind my head and still have a free arm to pet Louis. It would come from behind me like a tail, ah, uh,a butt arm brilliant. You'd even be able to wave to people from behind you. As you walked down the street. And we all three collapsed with laughter Monica: [00:50:44] oh my God. The conversations, right? Like the conversations that come up and in that moment, or in those innocent child moments, bring people back from the dead. Right. And it's like, oh, it's, it was always like right there, you know, as they were processing with you. And again, there's so many incredible stories in these little vignettes in the book dipped in it, which will be out next week, July 9th, Friday. Yep. So, so Bethany, what would you like, you know, for readers who pick up your book, what do you want them to get the most out of reading it? Bethany: [00:51:27] Well, I just finished listening to, um, Elizabeth Gilbert's big magic. And so I'm going to be really careful here about projecting what I want someone else to get from my book, because I don't know if you've read that or listen to that, but it's fascinating. And she's very clear that once the book leaves her, you know, meaning gets published. It belongs to the other person and then whatever they glean from it is their business, uh, in a way. Uh, and I, I don't want to sit here and say, well, you know, this book is going to make you feel better about death. Uh, no, I guess what I hope for is that. It will make people who are going through difficult things, feel less alone. And to understand that grief and gratitude are not mutually exclusive things. And that if you're deeply grieving, it doesn't mean that you're not a grateful person anymore. And also that you can't just grateful your way out of grieving. I think it's, I think it's really important to sit in the emotions that we're feeling. No matter what they are. And maybe especially when they're uncomfortable, as they say, the only way out is through. So I don't know to me, I just feel like I want the book going out into the world to feel like we're all sitting around with a glass of wine, telling our stories. And when you're reading my stories go heal. Right. I'm your, your close friend and we're sharing intimacies. And that my sharing my stories will make you feel, I guess, comfortable telling yours, or at least being with yours, even if you're not comfortable sharing that. But just knowing that. As you like to say, it all gets to belong. Monica: [00:53:39] Yeah. And I'll get stuff along. Well, I will be of course, celebrating with you, singing from the rooftops. I'm so proud of you. I'm just, it's been such an honor to witness your journey in so many forms over the years, and just, just celebrating you, just loving you and celebrating you and. Just what you're birthing into the world. I just really believe that. Yeah, there's so much more here to be revealed. And of course, I can't wait to raise a glass when we are able to sit in person and do so. So thank you for your work in the world. Thank you for your friendship. You mean the absolute world to me? And to my family. Bethany: [00:54:29] And thank you, Monica. I mean, honestly, um, full disclosure, I write about Monica in the book. She's mentioned several times and just there, there honestly has been no one who's been more supportive of my writing. I can say more encouraging, just. Your friendship has been such a gift. Monica: [00:54:52] Likewise, likewise friend, I love you. Bethany: [00:54:56] Love you too. And to our listeners, of course, all of Bethany's links and where to find her and where to get the book will be in the show notes. And until next time. More to be revealed. We hope you enjoyed this episode. For more information, please visit us@jointherevelation.com and be sure to download our free gift, subscribe to our mailing list or leave us a review on iTunes. We thank you for your generous listening and as always more to be revealed.