196 Goddess Sophia & The Deep Christ: The Lost Creation Story of Cosmic Twin Sophia & Why Her Wisdom Is Essential for Humanity with Diana Kelly & Dan Morse === Monica: Welcome to the Revelation Project Podcast. I'm Monica Rogers, and this podcast is intended to disrupt the trance of unworthiness and to guide women to remember and reveal the truth of who we are. We say that life is a Revelation Project and what gets revealed gets healed. Monica: Hello, dear listener. And welcome to another episode of the revelation project podcast. Today I'm with Diana Kelly and Dan Morse. I'm going to read you a little bit about them and their background, but I want to first start out by saying that I kind of stumbled across Dan's work. I stumbled across his work on a podcast with Miguel O'Connor and I was so curious about what he was talking about that I ended up getting his book and falling in love with it. Monica: And it's called the divine spark within excavating the mysteries of Sophia and the deep Christ. And. I know that we call this century, the Sophia century, some of us, and it's certainly something that I refer to a whole lot on the Revelation Project podcast. And so today we're going to be exploring this mysterious being, this, uh, being. Monica: Amazing goddess Sophia through the lens of Dan and Diana and Dan's book and Diana's work. So here's a little bit of background. I'll start with Diana ladies. First, Diana Kelly has been a Reiki master healer. Teacher and spiritual mentor since 2000, she's been receiving initiations and empowerments of Sophia through the prism of mother Mary and Anna, the grandmother of Jesus for her whole life. Monica: Diana trained in ashrams and temples in Southern India and Thailand, and is an ordained Sophianic priestess specializing in divine feminine wisdom. She offers a sound healing bath and meditation using quartz crystal bowls, powerful hands on healing experiences and life changing discussions on spiritual principles. Monica: She assists in the healing of our soul traumas using the alternative tools of energy psychology and energy medicine, meditation, mindfulness, the power of mantra and prayer. And Dan, Dan Morris is a therapist with over 20 years of practicing depth oriented psycho spiritual therapy in Northern California. Monica: He's been researching Gnosticism and the esoteric traditions for nearly three decades, and has presented lectures on the mysteries of Sophia in a variety of spiritual, religious, and psychological forums. His book, The Divine Spark Within, Excavating the Mysteries of Sophia and the Deep Christ is an extraordinary revelation. Monica: And of course, if you ever want my attention, you just need to use that word revelation and I'm going to hone right in, Dan. And yes, your book was such, I mean, talk about revelation after revelation. It's fascinating. And I, and I want to just start with saying that. We had, before we jumped on, we were just talking about how this idea or mythology of Sophia has really not been in our consciousness. Monica: And we really want to invite our listeners to really get curious and start. In a contemplation almost of Sophia, because, and what, and what she means in your life. And this'll make sense as we progress throughout this episode, but I think she's all around us all the time. And I certainly have. Learned how to tune in at a deeper level. Monica: And I think understanding her through your lens and both of your lenses has helped me do that. So thanks so much for being here. Diana: It's a pleasure. Dan: It's a pleasure. Thank you for having us. Monica: So who wants to start, like Dan, do you want to just give us maybe a little bit of background or context and we can start building a foundation and orienting our listeners to your work and the conversation we're going to have today with Diana and I? Dan: Absolutely. Yes. It's, uh, first of all, it's, it's wonderful to have a forum. Uh, to bring in these mysteries, really, where they are welcome, and it feels safe to speak of things that are difficult to speak of, uh, because they've been so marginalized and buried for so long. So The theme of Sophia is just such a, such an amazing vibrational frequency, I think is one way of looking at it. Dan: Another way is, is it's like it's a mineral strata. It's a, it's a vein of pure golden energy. And so I have been tapped into this in my own way. Through my relationship with Sophia and the theme of Sophia for many years, and which then, you know, sort of led me into opening the books of the Gnostic tradition, where Sophia Is just, is just sort of glorified and she's just this amazing figure in the Gnostic tradition. Dan: So I have a personal relationship with Sophia that connects with my own commitment to retaining the spark of my divine inner Innocence, you know, as maybe associated with the inner child that I saw at a certain point in my late adolescence was, was really having a hard time surviving. And Sophia became an emblematic support for my for the retention of this inner child spark. Dan: And when I opened the books of the Gnostic tradition, I began to see that there were similar themes here, and yet presented in a sort of a vast cosmology. So I spent many years delving into this theme of Sophia, and in a sense what it has done is, it's like I've reversed engineered through the Christian tradition down into the Gnostic tradition and into the sort of the muddle of first century with this figure, Jesus Christ, and who's presented in the Gnostic text so differently, where Jesus is presenting this cosmology. Dan: This history, this broad creation story of Sophia, of which he himself is a player in this high creation story of the source, the unknown, ineffable God source that is unknowable. Really, it's such a mystery. And out of this comes a masculine and feminine expression and emanation. And the High Holy Sophia is the pranoia, the Holy Spirit, that brings creation into the world. Dan: And, and then there's this whole other chapter of the Lower Sophia, quote unquote, maybe the daughter Sophia, who falls out of this high heavenly realm and, and there's this whole ordeal. Related to the bringing of the divine spark into this earth, into us, this species, this Adamic species, we humans, there was a plan, apparently, as best as I can unravel the story here. Dan: So this is a, uh, an extraordinary story and, and context that can help map. Where we've come from, who we are and where we're going in these transitional times. Monica: I love that, Dan. And I love, I love that you brought right away, you brought in our card because it does really help us understand. So for my listener, we had chosen the card, the inner child. Monica: And so what does the inner child have to do with Sophia and. What I've really come to learn is that if we're to look at our lives as a mystery play, right? Or as Joe, Dr. Joanna Kuyava talks about at some point, if you're on this path, you can tend to become a spiritual explorer or a spiritual detective looking to find the pieces or the cosmologies or the lens from which to see. Monica: Another way of looking at things. And that's what Diana and Dan have done is they're taking their own life journey and this cosmology of Sophia through the Gnostic tradition and making sense of it, helping us make sense of it, not only from a past up until now, but now and what's to come. And so what I'd love to do is just read the myth of Sophia, the myth of divine Sophia, something that I just found on the internet that helped me just understand it in a really succinct way. Monica: So I'm just going to read this and see where we got with this piece. In the Gnostic myth of how the world works. Sophia, the feminine personification of wisdom lives happily with spirits of light, especially her twin brother in the unified, limitless potential of her father's radiance created by the twin powers of Monica: depth and silence. She's so dizzy with love for the creative source that when she sees a brilliant shimmering light below, she flings herself down into the darkness, mistakenly following what she believes to be her father's radiance, fooled by a mere reflection. And I really see the child in this, like the wonder of thinking the little kid following the, the light and kind of getting into trouble. Monica: So there in the abysmal unrealized potential of the world, she is trapped. So she's separated from the light. And you can see here how this happens to us as human beings, right? As within, so without we get separated from the light in this earth plane. And that spiritual realization of gnosis, the knowledge of transcendent unity is unavailable to us until we go through the journey of life. Monica: And it's only by. Going through the journey of life that that wonder can turn to wisdom on this spiritual quest, right? Like we need to actually experience this earthly plane in order to acquire the wisdom needed for where we're headed. So anyway, I thought this might be a helpful little, you know, paragraph that might really summarize really beautifully what you said, Dan, and also kind of bring my listener deeper into like this idea of placing lenses or different ways of looking at this story into context. Dan: Beautiful. Yes. Yes. And I wanted to say that Diana and I are bringing Kind of complimentary. Perspectives and experiences into this theme of Sophia, me being a little bit more in the research and academic and cosmological side and Diana being more in the experiential and the mystic side of things. And so together and we are a couple and we've been just really enjoying playing. Dan: With all of this, and so for having us both here. Monica: Yes. Oh my gosh, it's such a pleasure. And now, Diana, let's hear a little from you. I mean, I'd love to hear anything that you want to reflect on about what we just said or anything new you want to bring. Diana: So, you know, I really do think that we're desperately in need of a new creation myth, and this is it. Diana: This is, this will take us to the next, the next level of evolution and, uh, of humanity's consciousness. Diana: I, you know, I know that you've had, you've had other people on talking about, uh, the story of Eve and, and this is really like bringing back that feminine aspect that, Equal counterpart, um, to the masculine divine and help. And then what I feel is that people that come upon Sophia still feel a responsibility to bring her out to others, to share. Diana: And in that way, I know that I can speak for myself and for, for us is that we both have felt compelled to do that and that it's helping to seed her. Back into the psyche of humanity, because only having the masculine aspect, at least in the Western, more, you know, Judeo Christian, uh, religions, the absence of the feminine, I think that we don't even begin to realize how that has harmed us or limited us. Diana: And has contributed to the world being in the state that we're in. Monica: So well said Diana. And I know, you know, exactly from listening so much to this podcast that the impetus for me even being here and showing up really every week for four years really is to bring. More presence to the feminine. And what I love about what you're saying, Diana too, is that it brings us right back to that paragraph I read about Sophia's twin. Monica: Right. She had a twin and that twin in the Gnostic tradition, I believe was Jesus. And so again, my listener, I don't know if you're, I get chills when I think of this because Jesus, you know, through the Gnostic tradition, Jesus came down to. Yeah. Like that's one way of putting it. Jesus came down to really help her on her mission. Monica: And so maybe Dan, you can take us back into that, right? Like how would you describe that aspect of the myth? Dan: It's amazing that it's so little known and given that there is this pairing of the Christ and Sophia. And I think of it as. You know, with Jesus Christ, you have really two aspects. You have Jesus, who is the incarnation, he's the physical body presence here on earth. Dan: And then you have the Christ, who is the great self of the Jesus. And it is, you know, from the Christ that Jesus did descend into this dimensional reality into onto this planet as he's describing in these texts, you know, specifically to help Sophia to come out from her plight. But so Sophia is also. You know, the higher Sophia, there's the, there's the paranoia, as we call it, thought that comes from mind. Dan: This is the emanation. And, and then there's the Sophia who comes down into the, this, this world, sometimes called pistis Sophia, faith Sophia. And, yeah, and, and this is a beautiful love story. As it's described with the Christ's coming to, you know, it has coming to rescue Sophia. And this is a very difficult theme because, of course, it can reek of, oh, heroic man. Monica: Here it is again. Dan: And yet this is, this is a, a very deep and ancient, oh my gosh, cosmological A theme that, you know, based on my sort of unpacking and understanding of what was going on here, that Sophia was involved in the seeding of the divine spark into this reality, but that the plan got hijacked and that's, that's, that never happens. Dan: So, and this is part of the myth is that it helps to orient us in terms of that we are, have been living in a reality, a multidimensional reality that has been overseen by these sort of nefarious God beings called archons. And it's that theme in the Gnostic text that is corresponds with Sophia that is very, very difficult to navigate and yet it's important. Dan: It's really important. And yes, what do we know about this and how are we affected by it, them, this phenomenon? And how do we. How do we escape from it as well? And Sophia is the great model, the great metaphor for who we are in our coming out of being in a condition of enslavement, of, yes, of, of, you know, under control. Diana: Yeah. Monica: Yeah. I love that you said. They, and for my listeners, I'm doing air quotes. They like the, them, right. What, what they designed, what, you know, the, they, them that isn't, you know, I guess the way that I would describe it is it might be. Sometimes the way we describe the nefarious, uh, force on this planet that just keeps everybody in this, you know, Paul Levy would call it mind virus, right? Monica: That Wetico or that some of us might call that mind virus. The darkness, or some of us might call that ego, or some of us might call that. So again, I'm trying to demystify what we're talking about. And then there's also these other aspects. When you look at this, these forces through a cosmology, some people are calling them the elites. Monica: Some people are calling them and the Gnostics called them the. The archons called them the archons. And so, again, through this lens that has been around since ancient times, this story is actually, I think, making a resurgence because it's so helpful. It's so useful. It's so timely. And I think that we're at a point in our own human journey where we are. Monica: In a collective descent, and we're, you know, experiencing this and seeing it now. It's like the veils are lifting. I talk about this time as a time of great revelation, also known as apocalypse, the lifting of the veils. This is where we start to reveal and the illusions of this world. Become available for us to see it's like, Oh, I thought the government was fill in the blank or whatever institution, right? Monica: What we're seeing is a crumbling of what is no longer serving us. And there's kind of also this philosophy. It's like, I think my, my biggest question all the time was, but why, but why? We're nice people. Like what, you know, like, Why do we have these nefarious forces against us? And in, but in this story of creation and then this journey of the spirit, it's necessary. Monica: So we can either take this really personally, or we can just say like, this is part of the spiritual journey. And we're not here to have like just this. Superficial life. We're here. Actually, we're on a spiritual journey. And Dan, you so beautifully write about this journey in your book. And it's also an ancient story called the pearl of great price or something, right? Monica: Where we're all here to find the pearl, but we first have to forget that we're here to find the pearl. And part of the journey is the remembering. So you'll. We're seeing now the themes that are starting to create this pattern. 'cause this story is everywhere, but it's just in different disguises. So it's our job as spiritual seekers to see this over and over again and to see it in our own life. Monica: Yeah. Dan? Dan: Well, just, just to say that I think Diana and her journey and her life journey is, uh, is such a, a wonderful example and, and model. Of this journey in the search of the pearl. Monica: Let's talk about that. Diana, tell us more. Diana: Yeah. So, so one of the things that I want to say about, about the arconic influences in taking our part of the responsibility is I think they, they use. Diana: What they have openings that we have woundings that we have, right? You know, so if there's a Whether it's you know greed or jealousy or whatever like they're going to use that That portal to come through so that's how we that's how we can take Responsibility for what we can take responsibility for and I think you know, we see that in the collective, right? Diana: you know the absolute ridiculous, you know needing power and And how that's really playing out, especially as you talked about Gaza, and I know you've done a lot of, brought a lot of attention to that. I also just want to say that it's in my experience, the light uses the dark. I mean, that's how light uses the darkness for our evolution. Diana: And it's kind of like, uh, you know, greens, the grains of sand that are needing to make the pearl. There has to be some, some of that to, to help the pearl to form. Uh, within us. So, so I try to not think about it necessarily in a polarized way as best as I can, and to kind of look at it like it's, it's all working together to raise our consciousness. Monica: I love that. Yeah, I love that so much. And you're so right. You know, it, it is the grit that makes the pearl. It's, you know, I often talk about the fact that Sometimes we don't voluntarily change unless we hit this wall of intolerance where we are awoken from our slumber. I think it's why they call it a rude awakening. Monica: It's rude. It's so rude and it it's painful and it's, it's almost has to shock us out of our slumber. And it's like the sleeping parts of us that are like the Prince in the story. And of course you'll have to get the book, but it's like the story that Dan writes about in his book of the Prince finding the pearl is he comes to this world and he's. Monica: Um, seduced by all of the heavy meals and the seductive cars and the shiny things of this world and forgets that he's here on a mission, you know, and those heavy meals can put you to sleep. Right? Those experiences can make you think, Oh, this is what I'm here for. Is the nice shiny BMW and the 401k and the, Oh, that's not why you're here. Monica: You're here to find the pearl. So it's really, you know, and don't forget to laugh because it's a painful journey, right? Like it's, it's gritty and it really can challenge us in this way that can make us sometimes despair and lose our way. And we talk about this a lot on this podcast, even that. Is part of the story, actually even losing our way is part of the story. Monica: It's part of our story. And so Sophia is such a great example in her own cosmology, because she loses her way. And as you were saying, Diana and Dan, we've talked about this in past episodes with Celine Lilly. And if listeners want to go back and listen to that one, it's called the rape of Eve. And if you want to understand that Adamic, Adamic, right, Adam creation, how the archons created man. Monica: And then what Sophia's part was in it was. She came in through Eve and helped breathe life spirit into Adam and brought those two beings into both matter and spirit. And so here we are as human beings, both human and divine. And you can learn about that story by going back to that episode and hearing more about that. Monica: Cause of course we could spend so much time talking about the Gnostic version, but I think that that one does a great job of covering some of those bases. So where do you think we should take this conversation next? Dan: I wonder if maybe we can bring in, uh, some of Diana, your experience with, uh, the ampoula and the formation. Dan: And so. Yeah, so working with this, the theme of what are we doing practically to awaken this divine spark in us? Diana: Yeah, so, um, and this kind of goes into the crowning, the coronation, you know, that we, all of the images that we saw in the cathedrals on our trip. And back Diana: in 2016, I had been asked to do a bridal chamber ritual here in, um, Marin County in California for a spiritual, uh, the Easter from Mary Magdalene's eyes. Diana: That's what that is about. So I didn't know what I was going to do as this part of our tool, but I was asked to do it. So the night before I received this whole ritual, which, uh, from Sophia. So a dove, you know, I'm speaking etherically, right? I'm in meditation to receive something lands in my left hand, puts a substance in my left hand. Diana: And I'm told, I hear the word in Ampoula and I didn't know what it was. So I actually had to. Look it up afterwards, but then, and I was also told to, uh, C rate given a series of hand positions and that I, what I was doing is basically coronating people to put their crowns back on. Wow. So the next day in this Easter ritual, there were probably 150 people. Diana: So everybody came in individually and that's what I did. And so obviously people are receiving this at different levels. Because depending upon where they are on their path and what level they can receive, but the idea is, is to restore that crown because in restoration of taking, taking, claiming our, reclaiming our crowns, that allows us. Diana: To move past, if you want to say ascend through the arcana gates, so we are not as influenced. It's like a, it's almost like a spiritual technology. Monica: Initiation or a rite of passage. Diana: Yes. In rhymes when we were there, I received yet another level of that and was immediately in a sense, tested to see how I was going to respond. Monica: Hmm. I love that. You just really explained what that's like embodied because we can be very mystical about that experience, but actually explaining what does this look like in physical form where you get a download? Some people would call if you're in meditation or whatever, and then here's how it practically shows up in this physical world. Monica: It shows up as, Oh, this is somehow related to the. Vision that I just had, and I have a choice here. And so what you're saying is that the arconic influences might have you go back into those ancestral patterns, those unhealed wounds that get triggered and then cause us to be fearful, nasty, all the things that we get when we're really triggered. Monica: And those are really what some believe is those are the energies that the archons feed off of. Actually, they make the archons stronger. It's like this weird upside down spiritual nourishment for the archons or the opposite of spiritual nourishment. It's the, whatever that is, some call it lush. Yes. Okay. Monica: And so it's, it's, how do we stay present without abandoning ourselves in the face of. Everything that is going on in the world, and that's really this place where we are beginning to tap into what maybe you would call this Christ consciousness, right? And Also, I want to go back to something that you said, Diana, because you brought Mary Magdalene in. Monica: And I think that one of the things I forgot to do earlier was when I was talking about Sophia's twin Jesus was to also say that here on the earth plane, Jesus and Mary Magdalene So, Mary Magdalene, I don't want to project these words, so you tell me if I've got this right. Mary Magdalene became the embodiment of Sophia and Christ, Christ Consciousness, and Jesus became the embodiment of the Magdalene and, or the Sophia and the Christ Consciousness. Monica: Is that right? Is that how that works? You tell me. Diana: Well, I always look to think of Mary Magdalene, as well as Mother Mary and other high Greek, you know, goddesses as high embodiments of Sophia. You know, they, and I like to honor them for their great, for really the avatars that they were walking the planet. Diana: And that they now though, um, I like to Think of them as mentors for us, because it's our turn to do it. Monica: Yeah. I love that. And that, you know, one of the things we're changing is it's like you are now tapping into those values of the feminine that bring more thoughtful, compassionate, patient way of being that hasn't really been present on this planet. Monica: Yeah. Diana: Or, or, you know, I think it has been probably present, you know, within people, maybe privately, but it certainly hasn't been valued as much in the world at large compared to the masculine, more masculine traits, kind of like, Oh, it's too soft to, you know, that kind of thing. And I think it really is helping to elevate and to say, yeah, like they're, they're equal and they're both needed. Monica: Yes. They're equal and they're both needed. Absolutely. Yeah, Dan, Dan: You know, since Diana and I have been looking into more recently, the whole tragedy of the masculine on this planet, you know, through the last three, four or 5, 000 years, the patriarchy, the, uh, the privilege and the power that men. You know, can have, and we exploit it. Dan: Men have exploited that, you know, as a strategy to feed ego to, you know, in, in the process become cut off from the feminine aspect. And so it feels like in these times, in these transitional times, if we could call it that, that, you know, we men are really being asked to soften the ego, to be more open and attuned to the feminine frequency and expression dynamic, and to women, and there is a sense of how can we hold space for that to occur. Dan: And. It's the healing of the patriarchy, you know, has been spearheaded by women and the fact, you know, the circles of women who are devotees or champions of Mary Magdalene, for example, but where, you know, where are the men? And this is a big question. And I think like looking for male, you know, positive masculine archetypes is a challenge. Dan: And I think that the way, you know, so Jesus has taken up a lot of sucked up a lot of oxygen with regards to the terms. A role model of what a great masculine can be. There's some real challenges with the way Jesus has been depicted in the Orthodox Christian tradition. And, but if we look at the Gnostic Jesus and his relationship to Sophia, Uh, it's a very beautiful sort of rewrite. Monica: Yeah, and I just want to say, Dan, that you are such a beautiful embodiment of that, because I see even in how both you and Diana show up and how you as that masculine are really demonstrating in how you. In your being with Diana and I like this real attunement to, I see your attunement toward Diana, you know, in this conversation and you're really welcoming her in and bringing her voice in You know, really, really consciously partnering with Diana and what you're saying and doing, I see that so clearly. Monica: And it's such a beautiful thing to witness. I just want to say that. And in doing so, it doesn't diminish your great work in the world too. It's like we can be the both and here in partnership in these, what I will call Sophianic partnerships, where we have permission to fully embody. that sacred masculine and that sacred feminine. Monica: And together we create that interdependent, not independent, not codependent, but interdependent way of being in the world. Diana: Yeah, absolutely. I will just add that I, I, I also, just as I mentioned, I think that becoming more grounded in our spirituality is maturing. I also think within this, um, Maybe new age or spiritual movement that the men are moving from us. Diana: David data would use the different stages of masculinity. Um, most of them, even the spiritual men who I have very developed feminine side are moving from stage two to stage three masculinity. Monica: Say more about that. Yeah. Diana: So. I know you've been in a partnership for a long time, but I'm sure you can appreciate from your other friends that have not been that's in the spiritual community or tends to be, you know, maybe that eternal boy flyboy or, you know, different things that they're, you know, because they're, you know, just not grounded in their masculinity. Diana: So I think that. Monica: Or they, or they haven't done like the inner work. Diana: Yeah. And it's sort of like, you know, yes, develop your feminine, but now bring, make sure you don't lose the masculine and bring, bring that in and into a balance and to a higher level. And I think Dan can explain this more from a Gnostic point of view, but I think of even, even sacred relationship in terms of levels, right? Diana: So you have more of the basic, maybe more lower chakra, uh, motivated interaction, male, female, in particular, I'm talking, and then maybe you'll move into, uh, the well meaning people, you know, who kind of do life and, you know, of course they want to have wonderful lives and for their children and everything, and then the next level is the more, you know, talking about working together for a sacred. Diana: Partnership for purpose. And Dan, I want to just ask you to, you have, I know that the Gnostics, I didn't know that the Gnostics necessarily had this model, but I kind of was feeling it and that he, he said, there's certain names for it. So if you want to take the ball from there. Dan: It was amazing. This morning we were, I was asking, what are the three levels of David data? And then I was like, Oh my gosh, that sounds a lot like the way the Gnostic model of the threefold, the Hylix, or the, the base level, the, you know, the old school, you know, very, very big. Yeah. set in their ways, you know, and then there's the, the psychoid, the people who are well meaning and positive and well intended, yet there's limited in terms of their spiritual connection. Dan: And then there's the pneumatics. So you can almost think of these as the three, you know, a third and a third and a third. And the pneumatics is really, I think the, the community of people that we're, we're working with in your podcast, in our work with these Sophianic mysteries and that. Yes, how can we, so in partnership, boy, the, uh, the importance of soul work, I think descent, this is that theme of descending into the body, being embodied, you know, being aware of our shadow, doing our work with trauma. Dan: And, equally, staying connected to spirit and being tuned in and, you know, to what is being asked of us. And this is where Diana is very, very powerful in her work and what she brings to the relationship. Monica: Yeah. I'm also hearing this through another lens. So let me. Tell you what I'm hearing as well. And maybe it's just a different way to say it. Monica: But again, there's this interior version of this where we're kind of going through these inner initiations, maybe in the first part of our journey, we're looking for sex and. Security, right? It's very basic sex security love, right? Love it in that way that feels, you know, very good food, good food. Right. Monica: And then exactly. And then that second level is yes, partnership and solidifying that partnership and each partner finding their purpose. And then there's this. Next level. And I think this is maybe what you were talking about, Diana, where men or, and Dan, you know, this, the, I think we're at this, well, I said to Austin the other day, I literally said, this is why women are so angry at men is because you guys are like stuck at this rung of the ladder. Monica: Right. And of course I've got it all handled over here. I just want to like laugh at myself because you know, it's so easy for me. Where I always know that as soon as I'm pointing my finger, I should, I need to like, come back over here and like, look at something, which is never really pleasant, but anyway, but if I were to continue what I was saying, it's this place where I think women are really. Monica: Asking our men to come into sacred partnership in this way that they don't feel threatened by us asking them. I don't know how to, how else to say it, but there's this, there's this digging of heels in that I feel in the masculine sometimes where I'm like, You know, it can bring me to tears sometimes because I'm just, there's so much more available in this partnership or in this relationship. Monica: And I think that that's where women just feel lonely sometimes. And I'm of course, generalizing. So I'm owning all of that, but it's the way that I'm also kind of hearing how this can play out in a relationship dynamic where. Oftentimes I see women who are willing to go do all of their work, but it's through the suffering, actually, through the loneliness that we're like, all right, I'm going to go and like, work on myself here and continue the journey, even if my partner's not going to. Monica: And yeah. What are you hearing, Dan? Dan: Yeah, I, I think, uh, First of all, I'm, I'm hearing you, I don't know if you're apologizing, you know, or, or making sure that you're, you're taking responsibility for yourself, which is very classic of a woman that you're always sort of looking, making sure you're okay, you're, you know, you're not wanting to step on anybody's feet, you know, but yes, man. Dan: That's, you know, we, we can handle this. Women in their power, we can handle this. And in partnership, the key, I think, is to form healthy attachments. Where each person is able to be in their power, in their truth, and yet being responsive to the other person. Being attuned to what they are experiencing. What are they feeling? Dan: What are they trying to say? Mm hmm. And if I can show up as a man for Diana to really, if she's, sometimes Diana gets things in her body. Diana: Yeah. Somatic. Yeah. Monica: Yeah. Yeah. Dan: And in fact, I, I mean, I don't know if we wanna just be completely transparent here, but Yeah. It was like us doing this podcast together was something that was very important for us. Dan: That is as part of the guidance that we're getting. Mm-Hmm. . And so I am, you know, okay, yes, we wanna do this together. And so yes, this is the masculine's need. To be attuned and empathically responsive, hear you, I love you. And because of that, I want to give you something. I want to be present for you. I want to show up for you in a way that you feel good about. Dan: And then that's reciprocal. And so, you know, we're working on being in our personal power, having room and flexibility to be our own person. This is a huge theme and yet. There's magic in the relationship. So we want to allow for that to flourish. Monica: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Thank you. Monica: Yeah. But it's like taking a breath. Monica: Feeling that really deeply. Thank you. Dan: And it's so sad. You know, there's so many men. I mean, as a counselor, I see it all the time. Marriages, relationships are so struggling. Monica: Yeah, what do you see the most, Dan? Dan: Well, I think it really is dialing in the communication and emotional attunement. But when that's not there, then there's all like, I said this, you did that, and I want this, and you're, you know, and it breaks down and then there's, you know, sometimes a lot years of derailment in their connection. Dan: And when that comes back together, then like, okay. We're, we're, we, let's, let's do this together. I mean, people don't, people want to be in couples. They want to have a partner. And, um, I mean, many, many people, it's, it's such a lovely thing. Monica: Well, and back to this, because, you know, I, what I really. I don't know if you would also agree with this, but it's the unresolved childhood trauma that ends up creating the mischief in the relationship a lot of times. Monica: And it's actually like learning how to disrupt that pattern because it's the pattern that you're talking about, Dan, where couples, it's like the, and then, and then, and then he, and then the dog fell down the stairs and then whatever the thing is, but it's the story that never ends, right? It's just. Here's the pattern and it's like, Oh my God. Monica: So it's, it's really learning how to disrupt that pattern and get super transparent in those moments and be like, okay, like enough as an adult who now has some reparenting tools to be able to. And also the spiritual maturity and development that we're talking about here. The wisdom to be able to know, I know enough to know that I am in a traumatic response that is not foreign to me. Monica: It's been here for a long time, right? Maybe since I was eight or whatever the thing is, but it's having sometimes to that access to that understanding, that insight. It's like, actually, what's happening in the here and now is so related to this. Dan: And there's, I'm sorry, just to mention just that the, there's such great healing opportunity when I partner. Dan: Is there, and isn't doing what you're anticipating that they will do based on past trauma. Right. It's in the partnership, in the new partnership, in the conscious relationship where real healing can occur on those deep traumatic, you know, memories. Diana: And just simply one of the things that I think that I know I use, I think we both use, or we, but we keep bringing attention to as a way to, in a sense, quickly short circuit those. Diana: That's things is to think of whatever the issue is, as the, the problem that you're both working. To fix, not like he's the problem or I'm the problem, but the issue or what shows up is the thing that we're both working together on. Monica: Yes. Diana: And that helps to quickly, you know, remember that. Monica: Yes. Is it's like to not take it personally, but look at like, what is the system need in order for us to, it's almost like, you know, if our, you know, big capital D dream as a couple is this, it's like, what does that need from us right now? Monica: So it is, it's, it's beginning to exercise a whole new level of consciousness and awareness. And this is where I think we're headed. And this is how this relates so much to this more conscious coupling that we're talking about this integration. You know, of, Diana: so I, what I was going to say is for us and for others, it may be a different aspect, but we actually, Sophia has been part of our relationship from the beginning. Diana: It was obvious that her hand was active in bringing us together and we invite her in actively as for guidance. And, and, you know, she, we, I've certainly gotten. And, uh, you know, to maybe not do something a certain way or do something a little bit more, you know, pay a little bit more attention to something else, because I'm not seeing the big picture or maybe, uh, don't have full access to maybe how things may be landing with Dan or how he needs things that would be most helpful. Diana: Yeah. And I receive a lot of guidance about that. And so she's definitely, we're under her umbrella and I always feel if we. You know, we, we try to stay there so that it's, she's, you have access to her continued grace. Monica: Yes. Grace being the operative word, because what I'm hearing is it's not going to be Diana's way or Dan's way. Monica: It's this listening and attuning to a new way of being with your partner based on the wisdom that you're receiving. Yes. Yes. In that moment, in that pattern disruption, in that, whatever, whatever that relationship you've cultivated with in your, on your own spiritual journey, with being able to listen in a tune now to your partner from an entirely different place, it's like the Diana plus version. Diana: True. Dan: You know, and it's, it's also, I think that, you know, there is this, uh, big fear of, of losing oneself in relationship and, and I think men tend to be very, you know, gun shy about fully committing and all that, but I think that, you know, what we've found is, is actually that the relationship can support us being more fully who we really are. Monica: And I love that you guys brought in. David Dita's work, the way of the superior man, which even the title pissed me off at first. Diana: I first came upon him 20 years ago. I was like, ah, Monica: I know. And I, and I need to say it out loud. Cause our listeners going to go look up David Dita and be like, what the hell? This is some bullshit right here. Monica: Right. But, but if you read the book, it's actually, he goes on to really describe what he means by that. So way to go, David, for provoking us right on the cover and getting men to pick it up. Yes. True. True. Right. Right. That's so funny. Dan: I wonder if I can bring it, bring it around. Uh, so Diana was talking about the, the ampoula and the coronation. Dan: So just as a little bit of a context, Diana and I went to Europe this past summer, and we were calling it our Sophianic Mystery Tour. I love that so much. And the reason for that is that I was aware of images on early Gothic cathedrals in France. Seemed to suggest these Sophianic themes and so we wanted to go and investigate that more. Dan: And it was very, very exciting things that we stumbled on more. And so the coronation theme that I think originated in these early French Gothic cathedrals where Christ is. Laying on the crown or he's actually calling in the angelic realm to bring the crown on to Sophia. Mm hmm. That, that this is, uh, a, uh, just a, a mystery and where my research sort of took me was if we, the thesis is, is that the earliest of the Templars, the Knights Templars, did excavations on the Holy Mount in Jerusalem. Dan: And based on this reverse engineering and sort of what makes sense as it unfolds, they may well have discovered a copy of the Pista Sophia. And the Pista Sophia is the, one of the longest of the Gnostic texts, and features primarily dialogues between Christ and Mary Magdalene. And Christ is telling the story of Sophia. Dan: He's telling of her fall, quote unquote, her coming to this place, the entrapment by the archons, the tyranny of the archons, the losing of her light, and Christ's coming back here to rescue her, and that the rescue involves a placing of a wreath of light on her head. And so we think that the coronation images that are found on Shaltra and many of the cathedrals that we went to, Saint Lie, which is the only image on the front of Saint Lie Cathedral, is of the coronation, that this is the, is celebrating the rescue, the, um, the reclaiming of the divine feminine. Dan: That has been sequestered by these sort of lower egoic forces, if we want to stay within our archetypal way of looking at this. And so, so yeah, so Diana had this incredible experience at Rhymes Cathedral, and Yes. Yes. Monica: Yes. Okay. So to my listener, I'm sure I'm showing the picture in the book is yes. And Dan: so that would be an image of synagogue. And yes, in the book, and this is featured prominently on the front of Notre Dame. Wow. Okay. One side is this image of this lady who has a snake wrapped around her head and her crown is at her feet. Her crown has been knocked off. And then on the other side is Ecclesia, the woman with the restored crown on her head. Dan: And we believe, we think that this whole front of Notre Dame Cathedral, the central portal Much of the imagery is a cryptic reference to the Sophianic Mysteries, using Mary as a kind of a cover, as a placeholder. And they're doing it in a way where, you know, they have to be very careful, but if you sort of strip back, you know, and you're aware of the mythology, you can begin to see what is happening here. Dan: And so, again, it's the reclaiming of this, like this is a map. Yeah, it's a map. The Templars. Yes, they laid it out on this cathedrals saying, Oh my gosh, look at this. This is what was lost. Monica: And Dan, I love that you're bringing this up because throughout time, depending on who was in rule, who was in power. Monica: Certain mythologies and legends and maps had to be done this way. I think about the complete randomness of the fact that in college I ended up being a major in English, but a concentration in Russian literature and learning. That that's how those writers had to communicate was because of the censorship, they had to communicate in these read between the lines ways, right? Monica: And I want my listener to understand this because we talk a lot about the way that the subconscious or the unconscious or the depth psychology right way of understanding ourselves and our, Purpose or our own soul map is by learning to read the signs. And there are these really beautiful ways that these maps are depicted as you're mentioning around the world in certain cosmologies. Monica: And if you're attuned toward them, You can see more clearly what they're trying to say. Yeah. Yes. Dan: That's wonderful. Yes. And also that it, of course, uh, is included in a number of the esoteric traditions and the mystery traditions. So Kabbalah. would be the Jewish cousin or relative of the Christian Gnostic system. Dan: And so when you're looking at the Kabbalah and you're looking at, for example, the lowest of the Sephiroth, the Malkuth, that corresponds so well. To the Sophia in the world who is in matter and that the Gershom Shalom and his work with the Kabbalah is tremendous and he weaves in the correlation between the Kabbalah and Gnosticism and that they're both So there's no system that is, you know, has the goods and has the authority on all of this. Monica: Right, right. Because it's a mystery. Otherwise, like everybody's trying to figure it out. Right. And I think when you say Kabbalah, now I'm interpreting that as the language of light or is, are we? Dan: Well, Kabbalah is a, I mean, it's mostly known as a 12th, 13th century surge of Jewish mysticism. Right. And there's, and you know, and that the Sephirot, the, uh, the, the, the tree of life. Dan: Yes, the, um, is, is the, is the primary image and, and reference point to, to those teachings, but it's multi faceted. Monica: Yes. And is itself a map? Dan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, Chochmah, Sophia, the Jewish Chochmah is one of, is one of the top two, one of the top three. And, but, but I, I, yeah, I, I think that the looking. For the images that speak to you, looking behind. Dan: The symbols that speak to something deeper in us. And for one person, it might be Chinese alchemy. It might be alchemy. It might be the grail legends. Dan: Any of those I have, I have the, um, The yard people come behind my window here right now. right. Monica: The archons are here with their lawnmowers to silence Dan. Dan will not be silenced just so you know, Monica: this is so good. This is so good. Okay. Well, is this a good place for us to talk a little bit about like what's going on in the world right now? And, and dan's eyes just went wide, like, so Diana: one of the things that first comes up for me as you, as you say that is just briefly, we went, we were talking about the masculine and how the masculine has gotten out, gotten out of balance, but, you know, in taking responsibility as the feminine, both individually in my own life. Diana: And out in the world, the feminine has kind of taken the strength, let's say of a more passivity to an extreme and has not kept the masculine in check. Now there's been lots of, you know, yeah. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. And so I think what we're seeing in the world stage is, you know, the feminine voice is not popular. Diana: You know, there's, there's men that are, you know, they're, but right now, if you just look at what's happening in the Middle East, you know, there's men in power that proclaim all this wonderful reasons why they have to do this. But, you know, if you read under all the BS, it's basically just. a grab for power. Diana: And so this is where the divine feminine has to really come in, in a really big way and say, you know, this has to be kept in check. This is way like, this is beyond. This is beyond out of balance, and this will not be tolerated. I mean, like in a very strong way. And I think that's where the feminine, you know, kind of tiptoes around and, and tries to come out, but keeps getting squashed and voice keeps getting what we should just like marginalized and not taken seriously. Diana: And it's very easy to do that because as you say so eloquently, and I use your line all the time, these are the waters we swim in. Right. So we kind of get Diana: used to it, but Monica: it's the trance of unworthiness that keeps us, that keeps us really from stepping into our power. Right. And saying enough and knowing, and then here's the, because we can think it in our bodies and know it in our bodies all day long, but it's in the action part of it, actually, that I think we have a real gap. Monica: It's like, that's where we feel still powerless, or we feel still unsure because we don't know what that looks like. Right, right. We don't know what that looks like unified as women. And it also, Diana, brings me to this story. That Lynn Twist used to tell me about when she would go to the indigenous rainforest with the Oshawa people, there was a shaman there that took all of the women aside and said to them, here in the forest, when the men go out and they chop down all the trees for the shelter, it's the women who say it's enough now. Monica: It's enough wood. We have enough for what we need for shelter. Stop now. And then when the men go out and they kill the animals for the food for the people, it's the women that say, we have enough now. That's enough now. And the shaman turned to the women and he said, you have forgotten that it's your job to say that it's enough now in the modern world. Monica: That's enough now. And it's really, you get us, Oh, right. That is our role. You know, like that there are actually these places where when things are out of balance, we must counterbalance each other because there, I always describe this as well in a masculine and feminine partnership as the masculine contains. Monica: The container for the chaos that she can be when she's out of balance, right? David Dita even talks about this in the way of the superior man, you know, like that strong container for her when she's out of balance, when she's dysregulated, when the feminine is in her own way out of control, because it can happen on both ends. Monica: So there's this need for us to understand in these other ways, we actually have these very essential roles for each other. And yeah, anything more you want to say on that? Cause I think that's so relevant for what we're seeing in the world and I don't have the solution. Dan: I wonder if, if Diana, you can share the story. That happened with you with regard to Gaza. Diana: Yeah. So, so we were in a small group, intimate group of people, and we went into a meditation and I saw that, you know, the, my focus, of course, is, you know, peace, right? But then I saw these flames being put on each person's head in Gaza and that it had to be on a certain amount of people's heads. Diana: Before there can be peace, because if there's peace too soon, there will be something lost. It would be something of this wisdom of the flame, which is. Sophia or Holy Spirit, you know, how we talked about maybe Pentecost, you know, in a more traditional way that that is happening, that needs to happen there. Diana: And because I really do believe that beyond all the horror, and this isn't no way to excuse it, this is like ground zero for the awakening of humanity. You know, this is where the Sophianic compassionate wisdom can come in and really be educated. And I pray that it happens sooner than later, so that the horror can just, you know, but in that sense, that's the, that's what's happening. Dan: Yes. Yes. Monica: It's so painful. Yes. To bear witness. Diana: Mm. Dan: And, and the beauty of that message is, That we're all on this trajectory of becoming more spiritually mature and that that's really what it, what is, this is about. We, we all need to kick into a higher level of spiritual development. Yes. And we can have peace in Gaza, but then what's the, you know, the other, the next war is going to happen. Diana: Right. Dan: Bless your tears, Monica, on witnessing, yes, bearing witness to this genocidal horror that's happening in Gaza. Monica: Yeah, and just, I don't understand this expression, the chosen ones, I mean, I know that we're A little off, off, um, on a tangent, but I just, it just occurs to me. Do you have any insight on that? I mean, you know, there's this really interesting dynamic too at play that I just think is so fascinating and I don't know what to make of it, which is, I remember even growing up, like my father would say, yeah, the Jewish people are the chosen people. Monica: And I'm like, chosen for what? Like, help me understand. In my innocent inner child, you know, still wants to know. Dan: Yeah, I think that's such a good question. And I, I think that there's a One of the challenges that's happening or when a lens of understanding what's happening is the scourge of fundamentalism and that Israel and Judaism in Israel seems to be coming more and more conservative and fundamentalist. Dan: And that there's this trend of when things are unstable and uncertain and there's changes in the world and, and, and we, we can no longer depend on our religion to, to explain it all, you know, that, that, that some people go, okay, well, we need to hunker down, dig our heels in more, as you say. And I, and so there's, that is happening. Dan: And I think that's a, you know, it's a huge part of the settlements and the, you know, the refusal to. Come into peaceful relations with the Palestinians, but there's another dimension to this, and that is that, okay, U. S. sponsored funding for the bombing of Gaza. There is a very significant Movement in this country of Christian fundamentalists who are seeing that Israel is the, the flashpoint that will bring about the second coming. Diana: So if there are enough Jews, you know, who can pack, pack into Israel, then that kicks it in and Jesus will come again. And. Return to his throne and be the master. That's so interesting. And I, and people in, in political power, including the Speaker of the House, are very bought into this ideology. And, you know, far right conservative Christians are, you know, I think are, are, are gaining more power. Diana: And I think because of things are so unstable and old maps of meaning are unable to really guide us. And so this resorting to fundamentalism is this knee jerk, fear based clinging to, to something and saying that we need to do this, you know, and so this is evermore. Why the feminine and the softer and the, uh, the esoteric, the deeper religious traditions, the mystery traditions of the, of the, of Sufism and Kabbalah and Gnosticism that are, where there's common ground between the chosen people and the, and the Christians who, you know, think they're chosen because they're Christian. Diana: So, I think the Israel and the flashpoint of Israel and Gaza is a signal that's coming up from the collective unconscious to alert us, to say, Hello, we need to work on this. This is serious. This is very, very serious, of course, with the threat of a broader war. Yes. This is really, it's urgent, yes. Monica: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. It is urgent and emergent. Dan: Yeah, and how we hold it, and Diana with the flame, the Pentecost, Paul with the Pentecost, everybody, you know, the gift of the Holy Spirit, the flame coming down. What a beautiful reframe. Yeah. This is an opportunity for not only Gazans and Israelis. But all of us to be more attuned and, and, and welcome in this flame of higher wisdom. Monica: Yes. And you know, and again, like you see, depending on which lens you look through, you see, I mean, what a beautiful. Testament to learning those spiritual lessons, those deeper spiritual lessons than South Africa coming to take a stand against what they have experienced, you know, in their own and and to be the voice of wisdom, right? Monica: Like, I think that that when we hear the voice of wisdom, What we're seeing is Sophia. Diana: Yes. Yes. Monica: Yes. Sophia at work. And, you know, and I, I go back to that crown to the ampule and Pula and how it's almost like you cross through these, into these initiatory experiences that often are very challenging, but it's the challenge in which we remember the Pearl. Monica: Yes. And we're able to come back with wisdom. And it's almost like South Africa represents that completed journey. And now, you know, I get that it's never complete because, you know, as soon as you're on this, on this human plane, kind of back, back from the journey, the heroine's journey or the hero, hero's journey, it's there's, there's another one to go on. Monica: Which is where I think reincarnation comes in and where earth just becomes this school, right? A school where we, where we're learning. We're learning. Diana: One of the things that I feel that is happening. Well, that I think we have to hold is where do we come out as we move through this horror? Do we come out in a higher place of consciousness or a lower place of consciousness? Diana: Do we come out with a more tolerance for more brutality, like people that have seen the images, let's say from October 7th, do we have a new numbness, new level of numbness? Around all this, or do we, or do we come out of it with more compassion and then that's, you know, that's where the, the level of human consciousness, you know, has to really, the bar has to be raised, not in what will accept the horrors that will accept, but in the horrors in how we're holding these horrors and how we're dealing with it. Diana: And is it going to be, you know, revenge, you have to revenge, you have to revenge, or do we, we need to move forward? Monica: Yes. Dan: And the, you know, Monica, you've referred to this, what is called the hymn of the pearl and it's a story. It's actually a song that St. Thomas sings as is found in a text called the acts of Thomas. And it's this, you know, the prince goes down from the higher world into the lower world in search of the pearl, but he loses his way. Dan: And it's a, a bird, I think it's an eagle that alerts him, you know, after he's gotten lost in the material realm, you know, the pleasures of life, you know, remember the pearl and. So, but he, he goes and finds the pearl that is, uh, protected by a dragon. Dan: And the, I'm a little fuzzy, it's very strange, in my rendition in the book, no, no, in the rendition, in the Acts of Thomas, he sings. The dragon to sleep. Mm-Hmm. . He lulls to sleep in slumber and, but he faces the dragon. He see, you know, it is between him, the pearl, you know, he is, get to, he is gotta get past the dragon to get to the pearl. Dan: And what a beautiful metaphor. He doesn't slay the dragon doesn't fight it because it's, Monica: he sings to it. He sings to it. It's like he sings at a love song or whatever, , whatever the thing is, Diana: Right. Dan: Yeah, it just tweaks them out, and he falls asleep, and then, oh, here's the pearl. And so, yes, how can, you know, so calling out, or somehow, I mean, activism, spiritual activism seems to be what we're all involved in here. Dan: Is, is using these, uh, teachings or these inspirations and this guidance to be agents of change in the world. And what better time than now? Monica: Well, and Dan, tell me, you know, and Diana, tell me, I know we're kind of coming up on time, but I feel like we still have a few minutes. Is that okay? Yeah. Yes. Monica: I mean, I know that you're both. Very wise. So you're not spending a ton of time on social media, but I, you must be seeing what's going on. You must be seeing the shaming and the blaming and the kind of activism that calls people out. And there's a. It's got its own aggressiveness that I think is needed. Monica: And I also really, there's something in it that also feels brutal, you know, brutal. It's like, I know everybody has their version of this who's really struggled with all of the ways we've tried to say it kindly had, you know, all of the ones who consider themselves the awakened ones. It's also very ironic in a way, because, you know, I guess the models for this are really people like Gandhi, mother Teresa, and that feels so unobtainable for us mere mortals who are just wanting to wake up our neighbor, right. Monica: And say, like, if you're not with me. You're like, whatever that is that goes on. Like, do you have any thoughts on that? Any, any wisdom to share with us? You wise ones. Diana: Well, it's kind of interesting. Cause one of the things that I feel that I, one of the things I received right before New Year's is that, that one of the things we would be working with is more of the path of like Sophia Christos. Diana: And Sophia asked me to say her name first, a larger portion of the time. Instead of Christos Sophia. Monica: You mean like ladies first? Yes. Diana: Right. And so, so one of the things I, there, I don't know how to talk about this without that her being a part of it, because that's the part that is going to bring the wisdom and the compassionate wisdom, which can have a sword sometimes. Diana: You know, sometimes the sword is needed, right? Think of Kali, right? Sometimes the sword is needed, but it's done with a compassion and, Diana: and it's, and it's to, you know, to help slay the ego, not the person, you know, um, and to, and to remember that and to just like. You know, if you want to talk again about how we're being influenced there, the, the arconic where the structure is using the, this old paradigm of, of having to have. Diana: Total control, whether it's your land or your, whatever it is to, you know, because of fear of safety, a fear of the other, a fear of anyone who's not in our camp as being suspect that, that we can move beyond that and be more inclusive and allow, you know, for maybe variances of, of, um, ways to see this, but to ultimately all come to an agreement that this is not okay. Diana: What the level of horror is not okay, you know, you may even, I know people say, well, you know, the Israelis are just defending themselves. Well, this is way beyond self defense, you know, this is way beyond self defense. And so, so, like, how to, that we need to bring some kind of a sense of, you know, a baseline of what we will accept as, as a species of a beast. Monica: Right. And I think about, yeah, just the, whoo, I would call it diabolical brilliance of the archons in having this also involve the Jewish people who've been so persecuted. Like there's also this, I mean, looking at it again through that lens, I'm sure I'm sure I'm not the first one that's been like, Oh, this is diabolically set up because you can't help, but really. Get with compassion, how I'm like, am I crazy over here? Like, am I, you look at the situation and you see the dynamics and it's like crazy making. And again, I would say like by design, it's that arconic influence bringing this. And of course there are many people with the world over who have had their turn at persecution, but we know this most than the Western world as being, you know, the Holocaust of the Jews. Monica: And yet. Ironically, there's this kind of now whole other dimension and dynamic and it's whoo, it's a lot, Dan. Yeah. Dan: Yeah. I think it's important to have the flexibility of consciousness. Yes. When looking at all of this, the, you know, the arconic control system, the arconic phenomenon is sort of a very meta, otherworldly, it's very difficult to understand, it's, Jung might call it the psychoid. Dan: It's the deep unconscious. It's out of reach for most of us. And so it's, the influence is so difficult to find and to know. So, but there's other levels, you know, of, of how things are playing out and we can work on those other levels. Yeah. We can work on those other levels. Where greed and power and, um, you know, corporate power, for example, you know, are really, uh, wreaking such havoc. Dan: But I, I wanted to sort of step back and, and keep our eye on the bigger picture. You know, I know there's this, this tragedy going on in Israel right now. But if we're looking at the bigger picture of that humanity, in a sense, as a whole, has been subject to a certain form of tyranny. And this is the big theme that is found in these. Dan: Stories. And so there is an image that I've included in the book on page 139, and it's of the Sophianic Eve. Monica: Oh, yes. I loved this image so much. Dan: Yeah. And it's, she's carrying a sword. So this is Eve, emissary, uh, from Sophia and by Sophia. Look at her sword. Yes. There it is. And she's carrying a sword and she's standing, well, she's coming through another dimension with the Holy Spirit, the dove of the Holy Spirit coming down, she's got her crown. Dan: So she's appearing out of the higher dimensional reality, she's coming to the sphere, third dimensional reality, that has been riddled by the arconic serpent form. It has been essentially infiltrated, arconic, Monica: The arconic serpent form, because, no, I'm just repeating it because it's so important for us to understand, right, that there's the divine serpent and there's the arconic serpent. Dan: Very good distinction. And so you see that this serpent figure that is, you know, through the old, you know, the bones of the dying race of the dying people, and that Sophia has conquered this, has overcome the tyranny of the archons. She has it on a leash, actually, in this picture. Monica: Oh, yeah, she does, doesn't she? She has it on a leash that is badass right there. Dan: So the reclamation of the higher, higher truth, the, the using of the sword to cut through the BS cut through the, you know, that which is invisible, that it's elucidating us that's sucking our, our negative energy from us. We, how, how often do we get caught in that? It's so easy to look at, Oh, that person, Oh, he's doing this. Dan: You know, let's, let's, let's tune in, connect to the higher, higher frequency. That is just like that flame. We need to, we need to know that. And as we know that then the, the, the turmoil of this world, maybe it doesn't need to be as tumultuous. Monica: And I love that. You just went to the breath because that is the spirit. It's like breathe before you choose, like check in with spirit before you slay, right? Whatever that is. Go ahead, Diana. Diana: You know, I was, I was just going to say, and I received this message personally recently, but basically daughter take up your sword, you know, not be able to hold, not be hesitant to hold the sword when needed. Diana: Like we were saying as women, as a collective to basically, you know, call out or help contain. Your example, uh, from the women in the, uh, from the shaman in their, in their green forest. Diana: Mm hmm. They ask for people, yes. To stay, you know, that the women say, when enough is enough, but, you know, that's, and it's should have been spoken way before now, but now we're kind of, I think when, when these things are not addressed, the ante keeps getting raised and that's where we are as a collective. Diana: I think you're right. It's like, how horrific does this have to Diana: get? Monica: Diana, do you have any ideas on what women can be doing right now too? Diana: Well, you know, I always think of the microcosm, macrocosm, right? So we have to address this within ourselves and in our own lives and how we show up. And then, um, I think as each person does this, it becomes easier for other people to do because we're all in that, I don't know if you've heard of the 100th monkey effect, right? Diana: Where we're all connected and we're all in that field and it makes it easier because we're raising consciousness. Other people can follow, but we don't have time here. I mean, we don't want this to go on forever, you know? Yeah, I, this is a place where I believe that the sacred masculine, divine masculine. Diana: Those that can hold that in powers of position, I'm talking world level right on the world stage, can, if they are willing to risk their place with other men, with other women, or how they're seen, if they're willing to risk that position of power and say, no, women's voices have to be heard, but that That's their test. Monica: Yes. Thank you. I love that. Dan. Dan: Yeah. And I would add that it's ever more urgent for us to be in relationship. So meaning I, because I care for you, whoever that is, the Arab. The Jew, the Christian, the homeless, the drug addict. Because I actually have a relationship with you, that if I need to say something where I'm taking my sword out, I'm not doing it because I'm impersonal, like I'm gonna just hurt you, you know, get back, get down, you know, whatever. Dan: Like, no, I care for you and I, you know, stop. Bombing Gaza, brothers, right? Brothers, stop bombing Gaza. Yes, give them a break. And I speak as a brother, hard as that may sound, you know, right? Because I don't know the people in power there. But that's, you know, we yell and we're angry. And that tends to just bring up defense. Dan: You know, and so we're yelling at each other and we're, and there's no relationship. So how can we, how can we build the bridges of relationship where, where we can hear each other and where change can happen? I do believe that the United States is in a position to do that in this situation. And we do have the relationship that we could do that, but we're not doing that. Diana: So that's where, that's where I see the crux of things is when, when the power is there, the relationship is there, and yet it's not used for because there's benefits for it not being used. And. That's what, you know, needs to happen, I believe, for this country to do, to step up and be that voice. Monica: Yes, please. I mean, yes, yes to that. Monica: Well, this is just, I mean, I've loved where organically, right? We, we knew we had a lot of ground to cover. And I feel like we've organically covered that ground without, without needing a big outline or anything, right? Diana: Although it was nice to have it. I mean, we did, we did Diana: cover a lot of points. Monica: Yeah. Well, I wanted to, my final question would be, is there anything that, you know, haven't asked that you wished I would, or anything else that you. Monica: Want to share as we wrap up and anything else you feel like is important for us to talk about Dan: well, I wanted to actually maybe share from a little piece of the book please because this is Such a, a beautiful testimony to the work that we're doing and what we're talking about. So this is an interaction between Freud and Jung. And Freud, you know, was saying, oh boy, I'm having Freud, uh, Freud wrote to Jung in 1911. Dan: You know, I'm having these sort of interesting thoughts and uncanny things and strange understandings. And what do you think about that? And Jung wrote, I. Have the feeling that this is a time full of marvels. And if the auguries do not deceive us, it may very well be that we are on the threshold of something really sensational, which I scarcely know how to describe except with the Gnostic concept of Sophia. Dan: And I write, this is a rare hint of what Jung was tracking at that time, though not a word more was mentioned of this in Letters to Freud. What did he mean, this is a time full of marvels? What did Jung's familiarity with the mysteries of Sophia tell him about the times ahead? I believe that these investigations that we're working about in this book, with their many clues, points to what Jung suspected and even championed in his own life. Dan: That we are entering times of immense revelation and change. Dan: Thank you, Carl Jung. Monica: Wow. Perfect. Well, the two of you are just, I cherish you both. Diana: Yeah, but Diana gets the last word. Monica: Of course, Dan, Dan is so wise, isn't he, Diana? I mean, let's just give him props. I know. Dan: Yeah. I'm learning, okay, I'm learning. Monica: You're doing so well, Dan. Good work. Diana: Oh, yes, thank you. I guess the thing that's most present for me in this moment is is really taking everything, lifting the world of the mundane, even, into the sacred. Diana: And that is part of the path of the Sophia Christos Diana: to create a new respect. For everything. Everything is a prayer. Everything is sacred. Do everything with presence and consciousness. Monica: I love that. And I, I have this place on my website where it says, let your whole life be a revelation. You know, and it reminds me of that too, because I think sometimes the way that we just think of prayer even needs to change, right? And just really recognizing that the divine spark is in everything in this material world. Monica: It's in the mountains, and it's in the trees, and it's in the rocks, and the stones, and the crystals, it's in the birds, it's in the animals, it's in the beings, right? Diana: Yeah, absolutely. Dan: Beautiful. Diana: And, and even changing the way we worship, you know, in um, that as much as, as gorgeous as the cathedrals are, it doesn't have to be in cathedrals. Diana: You know, it can be in circles, it can be through dance, music, and the beautiful labyrinth that I so wanted to be in, in the middle of it, on my 60th birthday, at Shatner Cathedral. Even, you know, that is the walking to the center, you know, and, and experiencing, receiving there. In my case, it was Sophia, and then walking that back out to the world. Monica: Yeah, so beautiful. Thank you so much. This has been so nourishing on so many levels and I knew it would be. I knew it would be. Diana: Thank you so much. Dan: Thank you, Monica, for, oh my God, yes, your, your, the work you've done and the consciousness you hold, flow that we, we can have together. Monica: Very precious. Well, it, it's definitely a co creative art form. Monica: So, We get to dance together and thanks for, you know, also just really your patience and grace, right. As we tried to figure this out, cause it's, it's new for me to try to bring in new technology and the. To have three, three of us here and learning to dance. Thank you. Thank you so much. And for my listener, you know, I just want to invite you, please, you know, check out Diana and Dan's work collectively and individually. Monica: Diana, you also offer. These amazing, as I mentioned in your bio, healings and also activations. So I do Diana: have a website, light of the Sophia. com, um, that I can be reached for those things individually. Yes. And then of course. Monica: Our work. Yeah. And Dan, where would you like to guide them? Dan: Yeah. So I have a website, Sophia project. net, and that's a main website where you can have, get access to the book. There's articles, there's research material that is supporting the book. And then there's listings of events and things that we'll, we have done videos and that we will be doing classes. And that would be the central portal maybe for, for our work. Monica: So great. So great. And actually I get the last word because I get, cause I get to say to my listener, I'll be sure to put Dan and Diana's links in the show notes. And until next time, more to be revealed. We hope you enjoyed this episode. For more information, please visit us at jointherevelation. com and be sure to download our free gift, Subscribe to our mailing list, or leave us a review on iTunes. Monica: We thank you for your generous listening, and as always, more to be revealed!