Rick Czaplewski
===

Vince: [00:00:00] How about we do this? Let's, let's talk Pacer's bucks here. Um, you said there's a little bit of a rivalry the last few years, which I, I would tend to agree with. I, I don't follow religiously, but I I've noticed that as well. Um, and I would say it's probably safe that you guys have gotten the better of us the majority of the time.

I mean, you, you do have a, an MBA title right? In the last couple years. 

Rick: Yeah. The Bucks won it in 21 and. They've had a pretty good run and I think they've beaten the Pacers pretty handily over that time. But this last season, you guys knocked us out of the in season tournament and I went to one of those games.

I went to the A game here in Milwaukee, Pacers Bucks, and Giannis had his all time career high. That game. Um, but that's what it takes for us to beat the Pacers. So yeah, 

Vince: it's kinda a struggle. So I'm not like a real religious follower, the NBA, but, so the, that Midseason tournament, we, I think we went to the championship game, which you know, is great, [00:01:00] but like Mm-Hmm.

At the end of the day, what does the Midseason tournament 

Rick: really mean? I think it's just another way to build excitement in the middle of the year, and it was pretty fun to kind of. Get into it. Both of our teams made it to Vegas for the, for the fin, for the, the final four, if you will. Um, I think it's one of those things that's gonna grow over time.

You're gonna see it become more important later on. But you know, the first year you do something, try to get it off the ground and get people excited. I don't think you get it. You're not where you're going. Going to be quite yet. 

Vince: Right, but there's no, I mean, whether you win it or not, like there's no post-season implications.

It's like if you win the, like the Lakers won the mid-season tournament, but they don't get, or, or maybe they do and I just don't know. It doesn't provide them any advantage at the end of the season. Correct. For postseason? 

Rick: Uh uh No, I don't think it does. Okay. I think it's just some, a way to get people excited about basketball in, in December.

Vince: Yeah. Which shouldn't be too hard in Indiana and Wisconsin [00:02:00] because, I mean, what else are we doing? You guys are probably a little more focused on hockey than we are, but outside of that, like, what else are we doing in December or 

Rick: January? Yeah, that's true. I mean, maybe football. I mean, we've got college sport.

Vince: College sports. Yeah, of course. But maybe football's still going, maybe not. Depending on when, when it is. Yeah.

Rick: Is this thing 

Vince: going?

Hey guys. Welcome back to another episode of the Summits podcast. Thank you all for joining us from wherever you get your podcast, for joining us on the Heroes Foundation, Eure Channel. Thank you for tuning in. We appreciate you. Uh, if you havet hit the subscribe button now, it's a great time to do it.

Won't cost you a dime. Um, we appreciate you doing that and hit that little notification bell while you're at it so you can be alerted when the new episodes like this won drop. All right, we are staying in [00:03:00] the Midwest today, folks, uh, but doing a remote session here. Um, we got, she said on, on the record, uh, Mr.

Rick Zaki. Hopefully I pronounced that correctly. Pretty close. Okay. Well, you correct. Feel free to correct me and, uh, hey, welcome to the Summits podcast, 

Rick: Vince. Thanks for having me. Pleasure to be here. 

Vince: Rick, why don't, uh, you give a little background intro on yourself for our, our listeners and 

Rick: viewers. Yeah.

Hi, Rick Lesky here. Um, I'm a 27 year two time cancer survivor. Uh, Vince, like you were both, um, Hodgkin's survivors. So it's a pleasure to, um, to meet another long-term cancer survivor, um, of Hodgkin's lymphoma. And it's a pleasure to be here. Uh. Right now I'm an author and I'm also a speaker I speak to about, uh, my cancer experience and what it's like to be a survivor and what it's like to have gone through that and what it's like to make a big comeback in life.

Yeah. Let's, 

Vince: we'll get [00:04:00] to that and touch on, on the book as well. Um, but let's, let's go back to the early days. Uh, are you born and raised in the Milwaukee area or 

Rick: where'd you grow up? Yeah, I, I'm born in Milwaukee. Um, I've got deep roots here. When I was, um, in high school, I was a very athletic guy. I liked to play a lot of sports.

Um, I wrestled, I played football. I was in three different state tournaments, and I think that was, you know, when I think about my identity as a youngster, it was evolved around sports and, and physical. And my own body image and self-image was wrapped up quite a bit in, in that, in, in, in being healthy and experiencing.

Ath, athletics, sports, competition. Um, that's really where the story begins. So 

Vince: growing up, what was your favorite sport 

Rick: for sure? Wrestling. Wrestling. Okay. Anything where, uh, anything where it was, um, you could, it was [00:05:00] one-on-one type activity. And you had a chance to, um. Impose your will on somebody. That was my kind of sport.

Anything involving like a ball or a, or equipment, I, I was pretty uncoordinated at shooting or batting or using a racket. But when it came down to tackling or, or taking somebody down, that seemed to be my forte. So I gravitated towards those. Uh, 

Vince: we'll come back to that 'cause I'll ask about how maybe that mentality shaped.

Another challenge or the cancer challenge that, that we, that we faced. Um, so growing up in Milwaukee, um, where, when you got through high school, um, what were, what were you looking at from a college standpoint? What were your interests at that point in time? Um, 

Rick: well I was interested in going to a, a smaller school.

So obviously in Wisconsin we have, um, the University of Wisconsin Madison, and that was as an 18-year-old, a little bit intimidating and big. So I chose a school that was. A four hour drive from my home. It was it, [00:06:00] the name of it is the University of Wisconsin Eau Claire and I wanted to get a business degree and they had a, a excellent business school, so that's where I decided to go.

And for frame of reference, Eau Claire is about 90 minutes. East of Minneapolis. So it's actually closer to Minneapolis than Milwaukee. Just, just south of Canada, right? It is south of Canada, yes. 

Vince: So you, you go, you enroll, and, and this is where we'll start to get into your, your cancer story here. Um, what, uh, you, you made the decision to go to UDub Eau Claire, um, go into your cancer store, if you will.

What, um, how, how did, how did things shape up and how, how did this, um, how did this experience come to be? 

Rick: Yeah, well, I was a freshman there, and that, that campus had a very big drinking party culture. And what I would do was I would go to these [00:07:00] parties and, you know, with a, a group of freshmen, like all freshmen do, I guess, and we'd be packed into basements, drinking, enjoying music, having fun, and then get.

It kicked out into the night well, as these parties went on, um, and the semester started to get towards the fall and winter, the temperatures dropped, and I noticed that my jacket would smell like smoke after these parties, and I didn't like that because I'd bring it home and it'd stink up my room and I'd have to wear it to class.

So my workaround for this, I just stopped wearing a jacket to parties and I would walk 15, 20, 30 minutes, try to find a place. You know, in 20 degree weather. And eventually as the semester wore on, I got really sick. Um, my parents over winter break took me into the urgent care doctor and I had mono. So to recuperate from mono, you basically [00:08:00] sit down, drink fluids and and, and rest.

So I watched a lot of college football and drank a lot of Gatorade trying to recuperate. Then in the spring semester, um, I, I resumed and I went back to college, kept doing what I was doing, and during the spring break, I came back to my parents' house and my mom put her hands on my neck and said, oh my God, we've gotta get you into the doctor.

So I had swollen lymph nodes that started during mono and then continued. So when this. This happened, she took me to my pediatrician and he got a second opinion on the spot. And the next day I found myself on my back in an operating room getting a biopsy. So I, at this time, this was 1994, I didn't know what was going on.

I was 19. I. I didn't know what a biopsy was or what it was supposed to find out, so I thought, I thought the [00:09:00] biopsy was like a full procedure. Like you go in and they, and this is, this is it. Whatever's wrong with me and I, I still, at this point, I assume I had mono. So I went back to school and I had this big bandage on my neck and people were coming up to me saying, Hey, what happened to you?

And I'm saying I had a biopsy. And they're like, wow, that's cool. I said, yeah, nobody, you know, nobody knew what, what, what was going on. Right. Yeah. And this is before the internet. This is before any of this, you know, you, there wasn't ubiquitous information, so it was a Tuesday night and it was just an ordinary co college night.

I was microwaving my dinner and there's a knock at my door. I opened the door and it was my parents, and they had made that four hour drive from Milwaukee, unannounced, unexpected. My mom's glasses were fogged over [00:10:00] and they had tears and they said, you have Hodgkin's disease, and I didn't know what that was.

They just said, you have Hodgkin's disease like any college freshman. And then I didn't know what was going on. So that was the, the start of my cancer journey was that when, when that knock on the door happened, that unexpected moment, especially when you don't really know what's going on. Um, that's, that, that's exactly how it started, Vince.

Vince: Yeah. Um, I, I know that, that moment when you hear, hear those words that, that everyone. Reacts a little bit differently, but I think the one common piece is, is just the shock. So whether you're, you're 19 or you know, 89 years old, just those words. Um. Created, created a sense of shock, but then how people react to it and, and, uh, is, is a little bit different.

What, if you recall, what were some [00:11:00] of the first things that went through 

Rick: your mind? I didn't know what it was, so I was, I, the, the interesting thing about this, my situation is I didn't realize I had cancer. I just heard it was Hodgkin's disease. So the first thing I wanted to do was trying to find out more.

So I grabbed one of the smartest people I knew at my university and she and I went down to the library and we tried to figure out what is this? So we were gunning through Journal of American Medicine. We found nothing there. Um, this is a liberal arts college. Then we went into the, the reference section and we're going through encyclopedias and books from like the seventies and.

Nothing we're, look, we're in the, we're looking through the h sections in encyclopedia and we walked outta there with literally nothing. When I found out, um, what, well, let me tell you this first offense at, at this point, I, I didn't know [00:12:00] Hodgkin's Disease was a cancer. And it didn't even cross my mind that that's what I had.

I just had a disease and it didn't really, it didn't really sink in the treatments or whatever. What was happening. So I, I took some time off of college, maybe a, a few days or I left for a few days. I went back for blood work, for CT scans and PET scans and, and that type of thing. And then I went back to school.

So my university was directly next door to a hospital. They were so close that there was a grass field between the two where we would play football. And my, my day at college was. I would wake up in the morning, I would go to class, I would then go to lunch, and then when I was done with lunch, I'd go back to my room and put all my stuff away and I would walk over to the hospital alone.

I would get radiation treatment, but then I would come back to my dorm room and throw up, which now that I think [00:13:00] in a lot of settings, throwing up is like a red flag, like something's wrong. But when you're in a freshman dorm with a bunch of guys in college and they just think you're getting ripped. You know, they're, they're, yeah, yeah.

You know, it was a lot of that kind of stuff like cheering me on as I was doing that. They thought I was partying, but I was really very sick. And then after I kind of got myself back together, I would study and I would go back to class. And I did this alone. I didn't tell anyone. I told my friend and my boss, but other than that, I didn't want anybody to know I was different.

So I made all those walks to the hospital by myself. I'd go to class and no one knew. And you know, my body started to break down. I was, my hair in the back of my head was falling out and I was getting burns and I lost my voice and, and that type of thing. But it really hit me how serious this was. One day in the hospital, the doctor was running late and he said, Hey [00:14:00] man, can you go in this waiting room?

And we're running behind. We'll come get you and we're ready. Yeah, no problem. So I go in there and there's a magazine right on the, on the shelf or whatever. So I start reading it and it was a medical journal. I needed this early in the process, but here I am six weeks later and it said, list of blood cancers, Hodgkin's diseases, like the fifth one on there.

And I'm like, holy crap, I have cancer. I had no idea. I'm what? Halfway through my treatments and now I realize I had cancer. I called my mom. I, I come home and I, I'm like, mom, I've got really bad news. And she says, what's that? I said, I have cancer. And she says, I know. I said, what do you mean, you know, well, how don't, how do you not know?

And I said, well, you never told me. And so that's how I found out I had cancer. That's how, despite being reasonably intelligent in college, [00:15:00] having done some research, it was six weeks deep into treatment. When I put the pieces together that Hodgkin's was a cancer. 

Vince: Yeah, that's that's amazing. Especially, although, I guess in 1994, to your point Yeah.

That was before pre-internet. Right. I mean, anybody today, first thing they do jump on their phone or, or computer and type it in and, and boom, they're gonna have a, a myriad of options to look at. Um, one thing you'd mentioned that. I'm, I was a few years behind you in terms of my diagnosis, but I vividly remember the internet did exist.

Did exist, but it wasn't, certainly not what it is today. And after you go through the, uh, the dialog process, jumped on Yahoo and typed, I don't know what I typed in, but let's say I typed in Hodgkin's disease or Hodgkin's lymphoma. And um, remember the first main article that popped up and I ended up reading it.

Most of the way through. It was pretty lengthy, but I started freaking out because some of the percentages and facts and figures they presented in this article were not [00:16:00] very favorable. And only to get to the end of it and realize it was written in 1972. I'm like, oh, that's great. 

Rick: Oh my gosh. 

Vince: Just got scared, scared shitless for nothing.

But 

Rick: you know, in terms of a cancer, Hodgkin's disease was something very, I. I would say known. At the time, it was not a, a rare form of cancer. It was a, it was something that had been around for quite some time, so the doctors had a treatment course that they could get on top of it and, and go after it versus, you know, it's something a little bit more unique.

And fortunately the physicians that I had were familiar with it and had seen it before. You, you 

Vince: talked about your, your daily regimen, but what, what was your treatment 

Rick: plan? So I, the first time I had it, I had 48 radiation treatments to my neck and chest, and that was all done while I was in [00:17:00] school and, and at the hospital.

So I went, I, I continued through the end of that semester and then my treatments extended. Into the summer. So I lived, I lived there through about a month into the summer and finished my treatments. So I went about 18 months after that point, and I had a relapse. What happened there was I had some pains like in my back, and I noticed at night when I would sleep that I would, these, these pains would flare up.

So one day I went to the emergency room at that same hospital. And they prescribed me muscle relaxers. And so I, I started taking those, and those unfortunately didn't help. You know, they thought, Hey man, you got a soft mattress or something. So I told this again to my mom. They ordered an X-ray. The X-ray led to a CT scan, guided needle biopsy.

And by this time I knew what a biopsy was. So I told them, told my parents, Hey, [00:18:00] if, if I'm gonna get sick again, or if this is a, if it's come back. Just give me a call. Don't come up here and, and tell me and, and, you know, make a big dramatic scene like, like you did. So a few days later they called me and said, Rick, you've got cancer again.

It's, it's back. I'm sorry. And that really, this, this time it really hit me hard. I knew I had cancer. I knew that my chances were different than it was the first time. I think ignorance is bliss. Was kind of the way I got it. Got through it the first time, just by dumb luck. But the second time this happened, I was very scared and angry and so what I did, I had about it was around Thanksgiving and I had five weeks left on the semester and I was a college student with the emphasis on student, and I was so angry that this time I couldn't get my treatments there.

I had to drop [00:19:00] out of college and come home. And I knew I might never come back. What I did was I studied so hard for five weeks, I was so pissed off and I didn't care if it was lunchtime before I went to bed. Soon as I got up in the morning, all free time that I had, I just threw into studying because I knew if I died, I wanted my grades to be as high as possible.

So if anybody cared or looked back. They would see, boy, this guy was smart enough to graduate from here. And that was my motivating factor. I wanted to graduate so bad and made me so angry that I, when I just, through that five weeks, I studied hard enough that I got a 4.0 and that was the only time I, I got that in college.

Um, and then eventually the semester ended, I dropped out. And I, I started to get [00:20:00] chemo and I was now alone. This was still pre email, pre-internet, pre-social media. There was no way to really be in touch with anybody. So I was alone in my parents' house during the day when they both worked trying to heal from A BVD chemo and that, as you know, that stuff really knocks you down.

So, um, that was a very lonely. Eight, nine months. And, um, it was at that point where I really wanted to do more than, than just live. I wanted to, I wanted to be, I wanted to come back and be average, but, um, I, I just wanted to have an ordinary college life is what I wanted. I wanted to be like everybody else who didn't have to deal with this baggage.

I wanted to pursue my degree. I just wanted to do the regular stuff that I was doing and, um, and that, that [00:21:00] intensity just, it just built inside of me when I was just sitting there quietly, just alone in a recliner. And, and as you know, A BVD really takes out your red blood cell count. And so what happened to me was I.

I started to get really fatigued quickly, and our computer, you know, this is pre-phone, laptop stuff was in the basement of our home, and so I would go down there and play games or whatever. One day I came, I, I was gonna come back upstairs and I take like three steps on our basement stairs and I'm, I'm like hyperventilating and I'm in the, you know, I take a few more.

Now I'm in the middle of the, the staircase. And I can barely breathe. I feel like I've run like a 400 on a track at top speed. I, I can't, I can't catch my breath. So I press myself on the stairs and I collapsed at the top landing. [00:22:00] And I, I just remember laying there by myself at a Hickman catheter and, you know, it's pinched underneath my body.

Mm-Hmm. And just hyperventilating, like I could not catch my breath, you know, for minutes. And, and finally it came around, but I. Uh, that that was a real low point. What, you know, I had gone from being extremely athletic and competing, and not just competition, but just being healthy enough to, to participate was so great that now I can't even walk a walk in my own home.

And, um, I'll never forget being there, laying there alone and just I, I had no idea where I was going, but. Yeah, that was definitely a low point though. Yeah. 

Vince: A BVD is certainly a tricky one and, um, have some very, uh, vivid memories of that treatment plan for sure. Um, mo most of which are not [00:23:00] favorable, but I guess it, it did what it, it was intended to do, so I have to be happy about that.

Um, when you finished treatments, what, what time of year was 

Rick: it? Well, I started treatments on the day after Christmas. My final, the day that the doctor pronounced me cancer free was July 31st, 1996. So it was the summer. So I started in the deep Midwest winter and finished, fortunately in the, in the beautiful Midwestern summer.

Right. 

Vince: So you finished at the end of July then was your intention to go back to school 

Rick: then that fall? That was, and that was the plan and. That's what I did. So I finished on July 31st, 1996, and it felt, you know, the, the two week, the every other week, A BVD cycle, your body gets used to, and that first week it was two or three days out where you'd feel like total garbage.

But then that [00:24:00] second week was like relief, like, oh, I'm coming back. Right. Even though you didn't feel great. Relative to the first week, he felt awesome. So I'm like, oh man. And then he would repeat that. So what happened when I finished that last cycle of treatment and got through that second week and then got to a third week, it was, you know, I, by far, I was not healthy or, or recovered from the, the chemo, but it felt so good relative to where I was that I just, I took the month of August to recover.

And then I moved right back into that same building where I was done, where my parents knocked on my door and, and I tried to step into life. The hard part in, with cancer in college is identity. And what do you think of yourself and what, what you're, you're worried about what your peers think. I think in college there's.

Some individualism [00:25:00] where you wanna have something unique about yourself and stand out. And that's something that I think your you yourself feel is special, whether it's a talent or your look or what have you. But when it's cancer, when I returned to college and my thing was cancer, I was basically bald and people were looking at me going like, holy cow, this guy is here.

I had people coming up to me saying, I thought you died. Like, you're, you're here. I'm like, yeah, I had cancer. Like, what do you mean? Like, you're, you're alive. Like I, I, you know, 'cause the rumor mill, I mean, it was a small place, so Sure. What people said amongst themselves, I, I'm sure you know, it was for the worst.

So when I'm walking around now on the bald guy on a campus, and I mean, I had a lot of looks, but eventually, you know, my hair grew back and I regained my footing with some friends and stuff, and. Um, yeah, it just, that [00:26:00] identity piece was really tough, but it Sure eventually it, it 

Vince: turns around. Yeah. Normally I would say hair is overrated, but back in college even, I even, I had hair then, so I, I get what you mean.

Um, so here, here's a question for you. Um, for those who may be battling cancer while in college today, what would you say to that, you know, 18 to 22 or 23-year-old who might be going through a similar experience? 

Rick: You're not alone. You're not alone. To me, I felt alone and the first time I went through it, I made myself alone.

And at the, at that time, I don't think there was support. So what I would say is you are not alone and there are so many resources available to you. There are different foundations like the one you have where you can, you can get other resources to find people to talk with. Or if you need information or you need [00:27:00] counseling or whatever it takes to get the mental load off your mind, start there.

That's the first thing. The second thing is, and I think this goes not only to young adults, but also to anyone who's going through cancer. It's a time where your mind is spiraling and you're, you're, you're taking down a lot of dark places. And for me, I was questioning why constantly. Why, why, why, why or what if?

What if this never happened? What would I look like if I never went through it? Would I still be in this building or would I be dating somebody? What would I look like? Those two questions. Why? And what if are the biggest dead end questions you, you can ask? As hard as it is to understand. The only answer to the question why is simply because there's no other reason.

You're never gonna find a satisfactory answer [00:28:00] to why did this happen. There is no rhyme or reason to it. It's just happened, and the best thing you can do is to let it go. And in terms of the what if question, I think it's the same thing. It's if you wanna play that out, it's, it just leads to dead end. End.

Answers and on, you know, an an inconclusive outcome. So my advice is to park those two thoughts. Don't, don't get stuck there. Don't try to make meaning of the experience. The best thing you can do is to find a treatment course and doctors that you respect and follow it and get to the next day, just one more day.

Get there. One more. Treatment make. I love when I look online and I see guys make like a checklist and they have like an avatar and they're crossing stuff off the list, that's your path. Cross that stuff off the list and when you get to that finish line, then you [00:29:00] can start to make sense of it. And I think to anyone, it's a deep question, Vince, so I've got a lot, I've got a big answer to it.

When you think about what is in your life, the things that you have left to do, the things you have on that are unspoken, that you need to say, if you've broken something that you need to repair, or when you think about your legacy, something you wanna leave behind, and whether that's the written word or an object or a video, what you wanna do, what you have to say.

What you have to repair and what you wanna leave behind. If you're going through it, think about those things. Place yourself outside the treatment window and plan to do those things. If you need to do, if you need to say or fix something or leave something behind, do it now. Because time is the ultimate winner in [00:30:00] in life.

We, we are, none of us will make it. And if, if those things are left unfinished, complete those. Now, while you've got the time. Um, that's what I would, that's my advice. I think that's the, the best thing. I, I wish somebody would've said that to me when I was going through it, so, yeah. Well 

Vince: said. Um, so I have to ask you this, what.

Was there a certain moment or what led you into kind of what you're doing today that, that, that, that fire in your belly of turning that emotion into action of going out and not just writing the book, but also going out and speaking on this topic? What, what triggered 

Rick: that? It's a long trajectory and it's 27 years of buildup to get to this point.

Um, you know, Vince, I think as survivors. When you, when you hear that you have no evidence of disease and you put cancer behind you and you start to work your way back into life, and you wanna be [00:31:00] normal and you've, you're on a journey without a map. There's so many aphorisms to describe this feeling, scanxiety, uncertainty.

I mean, that's a real thing when you're done with your treatments and you wanna fit in, especially as a young adult, and it's hard. Or if you want to fit in at your workplace and you're, you're just not quite the same person there, or you're different than other people who are chasing different things.

That fire, that awareness of the clock is expiring is what fuels me. When, when I was a brand new survivor, and it was 1996, there were no other role models. I think the, the, the coolest thing that I saw at that time was on SportsCenter, Mario Lemu had Hodgkin's Disease. Mm-Hmm. And he went through a whole bunch of radiation, and then they show him, like on SportsCenter, as like a [00:32:00] soundbite like, Hey Mario, hey, we got Mario Lemu here for the Pittsburgh Penguins.

He's jumping back on the ice after. So many weeks of radiation. And I'm like, what? That's insane. I could, I could, I lost like 80 pounds during my radiation. How is this guy playing hockey? And he was a very mild mannered, I think introverted type of, of guy. And just to see that like, wow, like how did SportsCenter not make this a bigger thing?

But then the game changer for me was Lance. Um, yeah, Lance Armstrong, I named my son after him. My son is Lance. And to see that guy rip up the Tour de France and then start his foundation and talk about cancer and go to Capitol Hill and battle like that, of course, Lance Armstrong [00:33:00] fell out and. You know, he was disgraced and the doping and, and there's that whole side.

But in that point in time, that was, that was the milestone, or that was like the, you know, the, the, I don't know what the right words, but that was like my example. Like I wanted to be that guy. So if Lance could come back and like go to the tour and do that stuff. I am kinda getting choked up here. If he could do that stuff, then I could do that stuff, right?

Vince: Yeah. I think there's thousands or maybe even billions of us that, uh, felt the same way. Um, I certainly owe a bit to Lance myself in terms of going through treatment and receiving his book. It's not about the bike and, and, and that, just, that example led to. Us and, and, and, and kind of igniting the idea of [00:34:00] wanting to, to do something.

So I, I mean, I, I get it. I mean, regardless of what people may wanna say about Lance today, you know, we have to have to tip our cap to him, certainly from back then because, uh, if it wasn't for that example, I'm not sure the Heroes Foundation wouldn't exist today. I can tell you that. Um, and, and who knows?

Who knows if, uh, we'd be doing the same 

Rick: thing? Yeah, I mean, that. For him to, to set that example and to do those things for, for anybody looking to make a comeback. I think that's, there's so many takeaways from that that unfortunately will be disregarded based on what, how is full story unfolded. But my personal takeaway and what I would wanna leave behind was I, on a, one year after I was pronounced Cancer Free, I was on a business trip to Seattle.

And I decided of the, the Mountain Rainier Observatory. You know, I had the binocular up the mountain and I saw these people [00:35:00] climbing it, and that's why I love the name of this podcast, the Summits podcast. It just resonates so much. And when I saw that, I'm like, you know, what a better way to reconcile or to balance, um, not being able to walk up a flight of stairs with walking up this thing.

And so that put me into a, a serious training cycle. I wanted to get my body back. I wanted to get up there. And when you're a Midwest guy, you have no idea what it takes to climb a mountain because there, there, there's nothing around here like it. So I, I mean, I started by running 200 yards. That was my first workout.

Like I, I went back, I threw on some sweats. And I went outside and I ran 200 yards and I, I was gassed and I came back to my apartment and I, I mean, it looked like I ran a marathon and I did it. I [00:36:00] ran 200 yards and then I, it was just slowly building this back up, getting those drugs outta my system. And building your body back into shape and 200 yards became 400, which became half a mile.

And then now a friend of mine and I are walking a 5K and all these things over time started to, to take shape, but that mountain just was calling me. And in the year 2000, which was four years after I, um, was cancer free, I made the attempt and, and begged it and. I just remember going out to Seattle, similar to my other experience.

I didn't tell anybody I was here to put cancer behind me or to try to, you know, do a milestone like that. I was just, Hey, I'm just a guy from the Midwest looking for an adventure. And you know, Vince, they're going around the room in, in the beginning. And I'm from California and I'm from Seattle, and, and I'm kinda worried about the cold.

[00:37:00] Cold. I don't care about the cold. That's gonna be fine. Um, so. We're we, you get on the mountain and you're kind of looking up at it and you're like, holy cow, I'm doing this. And you know, you breathe in that cold air, that crisp, pure mountain air, and it's, it's replaced that pungent, repulsive smell that you had because chemo smell so freaking bad in your own, in your nose and in your mouth.

And now you're taking in this lightly oxygenated air and you're like, you know what? This is just an endurance event. I'm just gonna keep taking steps and, and just see where it goes. And we got to one point on the mountain and the guide was, it was like this gravel area and, uh. They were calling me Wisconsin when I, when I was up there, we got Wisconsin with us.

So, so we, we were at, [00:38:00] at this spot and a couple groups ahead of us had gone up, got in the middle and like turned back and, and we're like, well, why, why did you turn around? Oh, it's really windy right there. Okay. So then it was our group's chance and we got in the middle of the thing. And the guy, I think the guy was worried, he kind of turned around and he said, what, what do you guys want to do?

And I just screamed as loud as I could, effing walk and like this look on his face was like, he just turned around and he was shocked. And like, you know, 10 minutes later we, we made it past this thing and then we turned around behind us and then all the other groups started copying us. But it, it's that, you know, when you go through the disease, it's.

It's that, you know, innate determination of, you know, I wanted to get on the top of this thing 'cause I'm not gonna fly back out here and do it. And it's just that innate [00:39:00] determination to get by the adversity and to get through that. And eventually, you know, it was like the last 45 minutes of a climb.

You passed all the different checkpoints. I'm crying and then my tears are going like in my ears because the wind is so hard. Now my goggles are fogged over and I hear some guy at the top yelling 200 more yards and I'm thinking, this is great. This is where I started. This is where I started my. My run, you know, this is the length of my first run.

I can do this. And you know, you get to the top and somebody extends their hand and you made it. And I, I mean, I just look back, I don't, at this age, I don't know if I could make the attempt that I did then, but that was so brazen and, and challenging. And that's the kind of stuff that I think when you go through cancer is left inside of you.

You asked. So that's a very long answer to the question of, well, why do [00:40:00] you, why did you write a book and why did you do this today? Because that stuff's in there and life is short. And I could do the same things that I've done for the last 20 years or what have you in my career, but I want to take this point in time and, and do something new and try to get this story out and try to help people and inspire them and, and you know, I think.

The Heroes Foundation, this podcast, when you reach back and you help pull somebody up their mountain or up their stairs, that is the most noble thing you can do in life. And that's really, that's my goal is to try to do that as, as well as I 

Vince: can, I guess. Yeah. Good on you. Um, we've heard from others.

Talking about how some of these stories can help inspire them and or in some ways it's therapeutic for them. And when you hear that, it's like, okay, that's, that's all I need to hear. That's all the motivation we need to, to keep doing it. Um, fill us in, if you will, uh, [00:41:00] or our listeners and viewers. What, uh, what, what are you up to today and, and what, what can they look out for?

Yeah, 

Rick: well, I've, I've got two things going. So, one is I speak about cancer. Um, I do keynote speeches, I do workshops, and I talk to different people in, in different forums about my experience. And you don't necessarily have to be somebody going through it. If you're looking for somebody who's got a, a motivating and personal story to bring.

That's, I get in front of audiences and, and I tell that story. And the second thing I'm doing, I, I've tried to tie back what I've done in my business career is I coach, excuse me, I coach executives and, and business leaders on business negotiations. That's what I did for the last 20 years. So I've created a, a small company to, to get in front of those different audiences and, and type negotiating and [00:42:00] making a more favorable business outcome.

Uh, for yourself. So that, I think the million dollar question is, well, what is surviving cancer and, and a business negotiation have in common? And it's the same type of thing. It's a confrontation. It's, it's difficult, it's mentally taxing, and it's something that you have to push through and prepare for, and to have that kind of mindset as you're going through it and getting ready for a negotiation is similar to what I learned as a survivor.

Um, and I think the last thing, Vince, is I'm also an author. So I wrote a book called Better Dirty Than Done about my experience with cancer and also the several things that I've done after cancer from swimming, from Alcatraz, uh, climbing mountains, running the Boston Marathon. Those are all adventures in my book, but that book also details my absolute lowest point, my most frightening.

Point during treatment where [00:43:00] I, I was called, I, I had a, a progress scan, a CT scan, and the technician called me in to look at the results while I was still in the room. And I misinterpreted the image that he showed me and I thought my tumor had grown. And it takes you through the week of me begging for my own life, you know, begging a higher power to, to live and the the things that happen then.

Ultimately I, you know, spoiler alert I make it. But, um, I wrote that book for my son because I wanted him to take away from my life, my memories and to understand what I had been through and as a history buff, I think it would be interesting to know the voices and the people from my past. So I wanted to, I wrote it for him and it's a very intimate, personal father to son type of level of, of, of intimacy.

And. I had no intention of [00:44:00] publishing it, and a friend of mine really encouraged me to do that, um, to help other people. So, so I put it out there and it's gotten some pretty good reviews 

Vince: and yeah, I think your original idea of writing it for your son is, is fantastic in its own right. But then I would also say kudos to your friend for encouraging you to, to have it published because, um.

Aside from accomplishing your original goal, I think now that, that it's, uh, been shared with the, with the public and, and, and have, and catching a wider net of, of inspiration, um, is certainly worthwhile. So thank you for doing 

Rick: that. Yeah, you're welcome. It's, it was, it was one of those thing, it was a covid project and it felt good to get out and I think anytime.

I think, you know, Vince, do you feel this way when you put yourself out there and, and you, you put your name behind something you want, whatever your output is to reflect a certain level of quality. [00:45:00] You, when your name is on something. It's not just a I'm doing it because, and, and I feel that this book achieves that.

It's actually the second book I've wrote about the subject. The first one read like documentation, like a manual, and it wasn't, it won't see the light of day, but the second one had had that kind of value. So I, I was, uh, proud to have, um, put it out there. 

Vince: Yeah, absolutely. There's the pride factor. Uh, goes a long way.

There's no question. Uh, where's the best play? I mean, I don't, I don't wanna assume Amazon, but where's the best place people can go to pick up their copy of Better Dirty Than Done? 

Rick: Um, on my website, which is rick lesky.com. You can get it there and if you order it, um, off the website, I'll, I'll sign it for you.

Um, and yeah, you can still get it on Amazon and so forth, or Kindle. The ebook is on Kindle and I recorded an audiobook audio version as well. Um, so [00:46:00] that that's out there too if you're an audiobook person. And that, and it's on like 50 platforms for audiobooks. So yeah, give it a check. It's, it's a good one.

Vince: Alright, perfect. We'll include the link in the, uh, bio of this episode. So folks, check it out. Uh, Rick. We appreciate your time this morning. Thank you for joining us on this, this episode of the Summits podcast. Um, I'm glad you're doing well. I'm glad that, uh, you're turning your, like I said, your emotion into action and, and helping others along 

Rick: the way.

Vince, it's been a pleasure. Thanks for having me and to your listeners, I wish you good health and good luck. 

Vince: Right on and go Pacers.

All right. And listeners and viewers, thank all of you for joining us on this episode of the Summits podcast. We appreciate you guys joining us today, uh, wherever you get your podcasts, or if you happen to be tuning in or viewing us on the Heroes Foundation YouTube channel. Thank you for tuning in. Don't forget, guys beat Cancer.[00:47:00]