David Sumner === Vince: [00:00:00] So I'm somewhat familiar with the University of Tennessee based on my daughter being a sophomore there now. Um, how is the communications department there? I David: think it's very strong. Um, you know, it has a... Bachelor's degrees in four areas, telecommunications, broadcasting, print media, as well as master's and doctoral program. So um, yeah, it, I would not say it's the best in the nation, but it's in the top tier of doctoral, doctoral universities. Doctoral degree, uh, programs and state universities. So, Vince: here's an interesting question. I think I know the answer, but as technology has changed so much over the past 25 years, How have you seen, um, from a, from a higher education standpoint, How has the field of communications changed? Because I remember taking some telecom classes when I was an undergrad, since the early 90s. It's changed immensely since then, just [00:01:00] based on technology. David: Well, it's such a broad field. I mean, I can find it more in the print media. Uh, obviously, uh, print media. Statistics are declining, newspaper circulation is declining, magazine circulation is declining. Uh, a lot of my former students have gone into marketing, digital marketing, and that, marketing in that area. So, uh, people are communicating more online, and the students, just old fashioned print jobs are not, a lot of them, available anymore. Um, uh, I used to, uh, the communications is so much easier to, Find people to interview people you can do them, you know, but by zoom and but One of the problems I found in the last few years I taught it was just harder to get students to do face to face interviews They're so used to email and texting and they were really nervous and sometimes afraid of Calling up [00:02:00] somebody and saying, can I talk to you? I want to, you know, I'm doing a little interview. So that even on the same campus, right? Yeah, they wanted to do email interviews or text interviews, which I didn't allow. Vince: Right. So that's interesting. Um, I, I have the same experience with my own kids where they want to text all their communication and I'm like, okay, stop texting and call me, or if we happen to be. At home, in the same house, and they're still texting, I'm like, stop. Like, come downstairs, face to face communication. Right. David: Yeah, even, I did a textbook on feature writing, which was very successful. And I talk about the three, and I did this in class, three levels of communication. You can do face to face, like we're doing here. Or you can do telephone, or you can do email. And each, going down each layer. You remove certain areas of communication. You miss certain things. And telephone interviews, you don't get in face to face. And if you do email or texting, you miss even more information than you get from telephone. [00:03:00] And I could go into that more, but one of the best examples, and which I've often found and still find in my interviewing, is when you do face to face interviews, you go into somebody's office and you look at their pictures and the plaques on the wall and the books, and you can ask them and find out a lot more. About this person. Yeah, Vince: that transcends into sales, uh, whether, I mean, regardless of what you're selling someone, you know, some of the old schoolers will say, look, nothing replaces face to face meetings. And it's true. Just what you said, picking up on body language, picking up on Uh, what in the room. Right, right, yeah. Music: That's wild. What has been, like your, if you could pick a standout class over your career, either curriculum or something that you taught, like what, what in your field that's, that was a standout moment Vince: from your David: I taught a class, which I'm sure, I think, Kara took, called Advanced Magazine Writing. And I taught narrative storytelling, and how to tell a story, and how to develop character, [00:04:00] and find details about character. And it's, it's basically the best. Comparison to non fiction storytelling is movies, because movies, all movies are basically a non fiction narrative. And these are the kind of stories that, uh, capture people's emotions a lot when you can add some drama and some excitement and tension and love in there. You know, they really make for really compelling stories. Vince: Well, speaking of compelling stories, how about we'll get into yours here in just a second. Yep. Sound good? Sounds good. Is this Music: thing on? Vince: Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of the Summits Podcast. Thank you all for joining us from wherever you guys get your podcasts, or if you're joining us on the Heroes Foundation YouTube channel, thank you for [00:05:00] tuning in. All right, today we are raising our academic level here, which I know says a lot for me. Um, Transcribed Or maybe it doesn't. I don't know. I don't know. Uh, anyway, we are happy to have, uh, Dr. David Sumner join us from, uh, Ball State University, or retired from Ball State University. Dr. Sumner, welcome to the Summits Podcast. Thank you. Great David: pleasure. I was pleased to be invited here. Well, thank Vince: you. Um, why don't you provide our listeners and viewers a little background on yourself. David: Uh, most people are surprised to learn I'm a fifth generation Floridian. My family came to Florida in the 1850s, 1860s, uh, grew up rural. My dad and my grandfather, great grandfather grew oranges and grapefruit for a living. And so that, that's the environment I grew up in. Uh, but, uh. It really wasn't the field I wanted to go into, and just because of freezes and diseases, it was just not an option either. And, um, so, I had some [00:06:00] jobs in my 20s, trying to figure out what I wanted to do, and I learned I was not a bad writer. And so I began writing feature stories, news stories, op eds, and, um, I didn't get my first full time job until I was 34. So, I always tell people I'm a late blossomer, I mean, especially to give encouragement to people who have trouble finding their, their direction in life. And so, I was editor of, uh, an Episcopal Church diocesan newspaper in Cincinnati for five years, and it gave me wonderful experience, uh, writing, editing, photography, business management, PR. It was just a two person office, two full time people. And I got It was great preparation for becoming a college professor because I learned all aspects of publishing and writing and, and speaking, and it was then when I decided I really wanted to teach, that I liked teaching, um, and so, uh, [00:07:00] quit the job, sold the house. Uh, moved to Knoxville, uh, my wife got a job, she was a Spanish teacher, and she put Hubby through, and, uh, I taught part, you know, part time, I was getting my doctoral program, you know, and it was a good experience, we enjoyed it there, um, quite a bit. And then when I started looking for teaching jobs, um, applied to a lot of places, and I ended up with three offers. And the best offer financially, as well as otherwise, was Ball State University. And that was in 1990. And that was when we moved to Muncie. And I was head of the magazine program. It's the same position I held all 25 years I was there. And so, uh, I was also advisor to the student magazine, which is called Ball Bearings now. It was originally called, um, Expo. I did the research and writing, the publisher perishing thing, and did okay on that. Moved up, uh, assistant to associate full professor in tenure, and got tenure in, um, [00:08:00] the year 2000. So, uh, you know, I felt like I did pretty well, and... Uh, but what I enjoyed most of the relationships with students and, you know, like keeping in touch with Sarah here, it's just, it's just fun. I'm friends, uh, Facebook friends with a lot of my former students and it's good to know what they're doing and see where they are in life, especially when they have some types of unusual achievements in Vince: life. Uh, so speaking of unusual achievements, uh, any, any particular ones stand out to you? David: Any particular student, uh, achievement stand out for me. Um, there was a, um, a student that graduated in 2000, Nicole Reinhart. who, uh, went to Chicago and kind of worked her way up through magazines. And she was, um, editor in chief of a, uh, magazine in the health care, a trade magazine in the health care industry. She, she did pretty [00:09:00] well. And, um, uh, we had, I had three or four that went to New York and worked for, um, mainly trade magazines. A lot of former students went into trade rather than consumer magazines. Consumer magazines is a very unstable and competitive field, but, uh, I always encourage students to look to, to look into trade magazines, which are magazines that are aimed at one particular profession, you know, it's like an accounting, a magazine for accountants. And so, um, and I had one student that, oh, a few students that have published a few books, one particular that, uh, published, uh, seven or eight books, and, uh, she became nationally known in her field, uh, which was... Dealing with suicide, because she had lost a sister to suicide when she was in college. Vince: Between teaching versus managing a magazine, which, which is your preference? Oh, David: teaching. Vince: Okay. Yeah. [00:10:00] And why is that? David: Oh, when you're, when you're managing a magazine. Uh, you have a lot of bosses, and even readers want to tell you how to do the job, and particularly if you're working for a magazine that belongs to an organization, you, you know, you have bosses there. So I, I felt like there's a lot more room for freedom and creativity in teaching. I really enjoyed, I spent a lot of time preparing lectures. I would spend, At least an hour or two for every class and trying to be creative and presenting ideas and presenting them in ways that are understandable and that students can apply right away. So I really enjoyed the freedom and the creativity of teaching. Vince: The, like Ball Bearings, for example, is that magazine just for the students or does it go out to alumni as well? Yeah, it's David: mainly, it's for students. Okay. Okay. Vince: Uh, is there a separate alumni magazine or? There is an alumni David: magazine. Is there? Yeah. Okay. Vince: And how have those? You know, speaking of technology that we were talking about before.[00:11:00] How has the digital age shaped magazines, even, even at a, at a university with the student magazines? Is it all online now or do you still have a tangible magazine or is it a combination of both? David: It's, it's both. You know, we still have print magazines and, and many of the, uh, what we call the legacy magazines, the, you know, they're always going to be around in print because there's always, there's a certain, uh, advantage to print magazines that many people like, which is just. Being able to flip through it, you know, serendipity, you know, you see things you don't expect. If you look for something online, you have to be looking for something specific. You just can't browse as easily as you can. So, I think there's always going to be, uh, print magazines. Particularly those, um, magazines, one advantage they've had over newspapers, and one reason, broadly speaking, they've been a lot more successful than newspapers in the digital age, is that they offer very, Specialized, curated content in a [00:12:00] specific area. Newspapers are kind of aimed at everybody, but magazines are aimed at, um, you know, gardeners or women over 50, and they don't, can't easily get that specific type of, uh, niche information from somewhere else. Vince: Yeah. I can relate to that. You would be disappointed. Well, you are disappointed in me. Uh, Bill Gates is disappointed. I find that unless it's a, if it's a couple of paragraphs, I reading it on a computer screen is fine. Yeah. But if it's a lengthy article or a book, I have to have a printed version. I, I can't, or I'll print out something that's lengthy off my computer on the paper, which I'm, I'm wasting paper. Music: But is that because you find yourself wanting to take notes on it or is it just the medium change? I don't know. Maybe, Vince: um, maybe it's just, I'm just too old school, but for some reason, I just staring at a screen for that long. Bothers me, even if it's a, you know, a, like this tablet here just doesn't do, I can't read books off it, but I can't do eBooks and I'd rather actually have [00:13:00] the tangible book versus audio or, or what have you. David: Yeah, if I'm doing research for an article or for a book, you know, I'll print out a 20 page article or a chapter and I can highlight the parts and go back and find those highlighted parts real easily. You know, maybe 20 pages, I've only highlighted four or five pages, and those are the ones I, you know, I keep and write my notes or my articles. There are Vince: some people, not naming names, who might say, well, you can still highlight on a tablet or a computer or what have you. You definitely can. You can. You can do that. Music: Yeah. Do I still print things out from time to time? Yes. I try not to though, because, mostly because I, once I print it out and I get through it, it disappears. I just don't keep track of it as well as like having it filed away Vince: somewhere. Right. And as his former student Tara might point out, maybe that's a reason why I have certain piles in my office. Cause I Music: have. I think I see one hidden in a bag right over there. Yeah. Thanks. That was supposed to go away when that, when that thing showed up. Right. Yeah. Well, [00:14:00] it's a work in progress. Ah, I see. Vince: Okay. Process. There you go. Not progress. Trust the process. Well, uh, October, as we are now in, which is hard to believe, is, you know, Breast Cancer Awareness Month. Dr. Sumner, what is your cancer David: story? My cancer story, uh, began in 2010 and, um, I had breast cancer. I shouldn't have to say I have male breast cancer because I'm obviously a male. But, um, it began, um, uh, I was out running, and I've done a lot of running and been in the Indy Mini Marathon. And I came back from a long run and, and I noticed, well I'd noticed it before, but I especially noticed this lump. And it was painful, and it was sore. And... I knew that men get breast cancer, and I was immediately concerned, um, so I put it off a couple of weeks. I didn't rush to a doctor right away. I [00:15:00] was assessing it, and I didn't even tell my wife, because I didn't want her to worry. But I knew men get, and after about two weeks, I was pretty well knew I probably had breast cancer, and I didn't, I went to a surgeon that I'd already seen before for, uh. A minor procedure, because I knew my own family doctor would just refer to me somewhere. And so, you know, he looked at it and he did a biopsy. It was called a fine needle aspiration, stick a needle there. It was very painful and, uh, uh, came back about 20 or 30 minutes later. This was on a Thursday and he said, yes, you have breast cancer and I want to do a mastectomy on Monday. It was four days later. Yeah. So, uh, well then I had to go home and tell my wife. Peace. Peace. Because she didn't know anything about this. Yeah, right. But she, uh, she's very, very kind, very supportive and understood. And so, uh, you know, I went on Monday morning. I, uh, had the surgery and, uh, he just cut everything off.[00:16:00] He said that for men, that's the best option rather than any other treatable options. It was a stage two. Uh, so it was. Not minor, and it wasn't major, it was kind of in between, but it was, uh, I asked him about that time, I said, What are my chances of living for at least five years? And he said, 80%. So that gave me some encouragement. I thought, well, I think I can do this. And so, um, after that, after the surgery had healed, I began, um, chemotherapy treatments. I had chemotherapy for, lasted four to five hours. Uh, once a week, uh, 16, 16 mornings. They did all those on a Wednesday morning. Okay. And, um, you know, I was very, very determined. I, you know, I wasn't going to let this defeat me. I didn't, I didn't want people to see me as a cancer victim. Uh, you know, I just wanted people to see me as me. And, um, I said, I'm going to keep teaching and so, you know, [00:17:00] I would go in and teach my classes on Wednesday afternoon and I didn't miss any classes and so I, I was fortunate I had very few, very little side effects as far as nausea or fatigue, uh, and, uh, my doctor, my oncologist said it was probably because I was pretty physically fit and I exercise a lot and that, It, uh, helps create and improve your immune system. So, um, I did pretty well. I didn't have, as far as the side effects, it wasn't, didn't affect me too much. But, um, it was, um, that went on for four months, uh, into December. And then I started my radiation treatments, uh, in January or maybe it was early February. But there were 33 consecutive radiation treatments, uh, and they only lasted about 15 minutes. Uh, the chemotherapy would last 4 to 5 hours. So I had, you know, Monday through Friday for 33 days I had the, uh, the, uh, the [00:18:00] radiation treatments. And, you know, they leave you kind of like a heavy sunburn. It's sore, but, um, You know, I kept up my exercise. I kept walking during that time. I didn't do any running, but I still walked three or four or five days a week, which I think helped a lot. So, uh, after that was done, um, I could go into more details, you know, testing for, I can't think of what's the word, The, I can't think of what I'm wanting to say. For metastasis? Yeah, it had spread to a little bit and they tested the, whatever it is I'm trying to think of. And anyway, it had spread a little bit, not much, and they took care of that. Um, so after, you know, the next thing to do was to come back for checkups every, uh, I think it started out every, uh, every [00:19:00] month and every three months and every six months. You know, I did these checkups for 10 years, and, uh, there was never any recurrence after that, uh, and, um, I just felt very fortunate, and very kind, I mean, very good that I had a, I had a supportive wife, I had a supportive congregation, a lot of friends at our church that were very helpful in my own faith, gave me a lot of strength to keep moving through this, uh, Period of my life, but now it's been 13 years and I'm fine. Yeah, that's awesome. Vince: Yeah As we know and you probably learned this now having gone through the experience yourself. Everyone deals with cancer in a different way the treatments We all have different treatments depending on the type of cancer in the stage But can affect different people a lot of different ways. Did you find that? Um, teaching and continuing to exercise, you kind of touched on this, um, but do you feel like that helped also get your mind off of the [00:20:00] David: situation a little bit? Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely. I just went on living a normal life. I didn't change anything, uh, and I think, um, physical. This book, which I found kind of like my cancer Bible, is very helpful to me, um, because it emphasizes the integrative treatment, not just the medical treatment, but nutrition, what to eat, what not to eat, uh, exercise regularly, and, um, You know, I followed his plan here and, uh, so I, I stayed involved in everything. I didn't drop out anything. I just kept doing everything that, um, I was doing, uh, because I was determined I wasn't going to let it interrupt my life, uh, as well as certainly kill me. Vince: Merlin Stewart Scott. Uh, came into town, uh, for the gala he had talked about as he was going through treatments and it, it, it beat him up pretty good, but he would intentionally, I guess there's, there's one thing [00:21:00] or there are two things that he was not going to miss. It was either, um, some of his daughter's activities or working out. And he said, he goes, look. I was not feeling great, you know, I was not doing the same level of exercise I was prior, but if I didn't do it, it made me feel worse. At least by still doing it, it made me feel, you know, made me feel alive. It made me feel a little bit better, you know, given the circumstances. Um, and it was just something he felt like he had to do. David: Yeah, that's exactly the way I felt. I had a cousin who was a nursing professor at the time, and she said, well, maybe we could put you in, you know, the CaringBridge, which is an online site where you can let people know. I said, no, I don't want to be on CaringBridge. People would think I'm a cancer victim, you know. I put posts on Facebook about how I was doing, but it was just another way. I just didn't want to be seen as a victim. I just wanted to be seen as a regular guy, like I'd always been. Vince: Yeah. Um, so you, you talked about this book a little bit. Um, you mentioned a couple of things it, it discusses. So it, it reminds me [00:22:00] of a program that the Heroes Foundation has been funding for, gosh, really almost since its inception called the Complete Life Program. And when I was going through, this is 24 years ago now, um, it was kind of a pet project within the Cancer Center. And to your point, it was all about, Okay, you're here getting chemo, you're going to get the medicinal treatment, but there's a lot of other things that, that you might need, um, that can help you through this process as well as your caregivers. And as you talked about, it was, um, having a dietitian or access to a dietitian. It was, um, various other therapies from, you know, music therapy to art therapy to. Um, a whole host of services that you as a patient, you may want to explore all of them. You may only want to explore one or two of them, um, but there are ancillary services to help you through the process. Um, I think it's interesting to see now over the last 24 years, it's gone from kind of a pet project at one cancer center to. pretty much commonplace at most cancer centers. [00:23:00] They clearly have found that they're worthwhile for sure. Did you find that there were other, um, any services like that, that, that really helped you through? David: Uh, no, there wasn't. I mean, not as far as any particular, uh, uh, services or programs. I didn't go to any, uh, support groups. But, uh, in this program, the Life Over Cancer program, which is similar, He emphasizes, uh, nutrition, exercise, but he also emphasizes the spiritual, and not necessarily Christianity, but just having a, uh, meditation, prayer, however you do it, uh, recognizing some... Aspect of a higher power, uh, in your life. And so, I had, I felt I had my support group, uh, in our local congregation where we have many of friends. And so that was kind of a, and I was open. That's another thing I determined. I was, I was not going to [00:24:00] be afraid to talk about it. It never embarrassed me to say I had breast cancer. I just said, this is a fact. You know, a thousand men get it every year in the U. S., more than that worldwide. And I think it was important a lot of the people know that, let men know that, that, uh, you, you are also vulnerable as well. Don't just assume it's for women only. Vince: Yeah, I think that's another great point. Um, Tara and I were talking about this earlier today that, uh, I think it was over the weekend or it must have been yesterday. Cause like yesterday was October 1st. Um, seeing a news piece just reminding folks when you think breast cancer, just traditionally you have this inclination to think. Um, Strictly females, but that's not necessarily, that's not the case, obviously. Um, you mentioned a thousand men in the U. S. get diagnosed with breast cancer each year. Um, any other statistics on male breast cancer that you're aware of that we'd want David: to share? Um, that's the only one, uh, I remember [00:25:00] to be honest, that's the only one I can think of, that approximately a thousand every year in the U. S. I don't know what the figure is worldwide. Um, and the other thing is there's no history of breast cancer in my family either. I had two older sisters and mother, none, neither of them ever had breast cancer. My mother lived until she was 92, didn't even have any dementia. She was very healthy. So it can pop up for any reason. Vince: We talk about ways of trying to prevent cancer. I mean, exercise is certainly one of them, eating, eating better is one of them. Um, but while they can reduce your chances for many types of cancer, sometimes some of us win the lottery we weren't really hoping to win, whether we like it or not. How would you say being a cancer survivor has impacted or changed any part of your life? David: Um, I'm, I'm more aware [00:26:00] that life is quite fragile, you know, it could end any day, you're not guaranteed tomorrow, and so you literally leave, live each day as if it's your last day. Um, I would say it's, that's one of the main ways, just being very grateful. I started, um, three years ago keeping a gratitude journal, which many people do, and writing down. Not every day, but maybe every two or three days, just writing down the things and the people that I'm grateful for. And it certainly, I started doing that, uh, before COVID hit and the pandemic hit. So that really was useful to me when there are days I didn't know anything I could write about. It's just everything seemed to be going so terrible with most people. But, uh, that certainly helped me keep a positive attitude, a grateful attitude. And so, um, yeah, you just, just being grateful. Uh, and I think it certainly made [00:27:00] me, um, more sensitive to other people's suffering as well and, and being able, being willing to take time to listen and do what I can to help other people, uh, as well. Vince: So you retired from Ball State when? David: In Vince: 2015. 2015, okay. And you've remained in, um, you're in Anderson, Indiana now. So you've stayed up north, even though you're from Florida. Right. Do you just enjoy the winter? Is that much more David: up here? Well, that's a complicated question. I get asked it a lot. It's just that we're so settled here. Sure. You know, houses are twice as expensive as in Florida. It'd be a step down as far as lifestyle. Sure. Living in Florida. And my relatives, you know, none of my immediate relatives are still living. And so, it just made sense, you know. And my, actually my wife's from this area. Is she? Okay. You know, she graduated from Purdue and she grew up in Cincinnati. Yep. [00:28:00] Weather up. Oh boy. Vince: Uh, in the winter time, do you guys, do you guys head south? You look for any warmer weather or do you just stay up here the whole time? Uh, David: yeah, we stay up here pretty much the whole time. We do, you know, we go to Florida at least once a year. Okay. To see my family. Mm hmm. Um. Yeah, we stay here pretty much because I'm busy. I'm still busy writing. I spend a lot of time writing now and enjoy that quite a bit. What projects are you working on right Music: now that you can share, I guess? Um, David: my interests are kind of diverse. I published a second edition of a book on the history of the magazine industry. It's mostly an academic book, but that came out, uh, last December. Before that, I wrote two football biographies. I like football a lot. And I wrote a biography of Amos Alonzo Stagg, who was a famous coach, Big Ten coach. He was a founder of the Big Ten, one of the founders. And, um, coached it. When he was coach at University of Chicago, he won two national championships and five, seven [00:29:00] Big Ten championships. Well, Flor Chicago no longer has Uh, a major football program, but it was very interesting. And so I did another book about a football cheating scandal between, uh, Bear Bryant at Alabama and Wally Butts, who was at the University of Georgia. And so, yeah, I just had fun. And I've done those, those two books, those three books since I retired from teaching. Uh, and I mentioned my early background. I'm working now on a book about the, uh, Basically the rise and fall of Florida citrus industry because I had, you know, it goes back three generations in my family and it's just kind of a shadow of what it used to be, but it was certainly, uh, I'm doing an interview tomorrow. I'm doing another one later in the week. I've done 18 interviews so far on this book, not to mention a lot of, uh, online research and actually going to archives in Florida. So, um, I did. It's kind of like the book on in the magazine book. I did a, Kind [00:30:00] of a history of the magazine industry, but this is kind of a history of the citrus industry. And so it's a similar kind of book. Different subject. Yep. Vince: Sure. Yeah. I have two questions for you. I love college football. Uh, very interested in those two books that you mentioned. How has the SEC warmed up to the, the book between Alabama and Georgia? No. I don't think so. Like, hmm, I wonder if that could help me promote this. No, I don't want to answer. I made David: a few enemies in Georgia. I'm sure. I actually walked, uh, I wrote, uh, Bear Bryant's son an S for an interview when I was doing research and never got a reply from him. Yeah, that's too bad. But, uh, I made some enemies in Georgia. Vince: Right. And you didn't announce that you had a degree from the University of Tennessee prior to asking for those interviews, did you? I don't think so. Okay. That's probably safer that way. Right, yeah. Uh, and then, so, you've been around the citrus industry growing up, your family has a long history there. Do you still drink orange juice today? [00:31:00] David: Yeah, about every day, not every day, but several times a week. I like eating oranges too, I buy fresh oranges and eat them, because that's very healthy for cancer. For sure, yeah. Vince: Well, cool. Alright, uh, any questions? David: Um, no, I just hope I can be of help. You know, I've always wanted to be a help, and particularly in alerting men to be aware of this, be aware of any lumps, uh, in your, in your breasts. And it's, it's not a shame if you are, or you notice something, just get it checked out, uh, pretty quickly. And, um, I'm glad to... be able to be of benefit in sharing my story. Vince: Yeah, well, likewise. Well, thank you for doing so. We appreciate your time today. Okay. Thank you. And, guys, just what Dr. Sumner just said, a reminder to get your screenings, um, and also pay attention to your body. You guys know your bodies better than anybody else. Just pay attention. We thank you all for joining us on this episode of the Summit's podcast. If you happen to be tuning into the Heroes Foundation YouTube channel and you've not hit that [00:32:00] subscribe button, please do so. It won't cost you a single dime. Um, also while you're at it, hit the little notification bell icon so you can be alerted when new episodes like this one drop. That'd be great. And guys, again, get screened, pay attention to your bodies, and don't forget, beat cancer.