Episode 3 (Edited)
[00:00:00] Vince: [00:00:00] All right here. We are episode three, Matt Kinger King in the house. 
[00:00:25] Matt: [00:00:25] Welcome. Is that an official nickname? Thanks for having me. Um, it started in high school. Okay. Kinger did. And then, um, didn't really stick much. College years, but then after college certainly did 
[00:00:41] Vince: [00:00:41] good story where it came from. Obviously 
[00:00:44] Matt: [00:00:44] the last name is zero.
[00:00:46] It's just what flowed? That's it? I guess for people. Yeah, no, that's kind of  it's not like other nicknames have had words, right? We won't probably repeat, but 
[00:00:58] Vince: [00:00:58] that's we're not going to go there [00:01:00] yet. Yeah. Hey, you never know. 
[00:01:02] Matt: [00:01:02] That's right. Let me, let me start first by saying. Um, I think you've got a great medium here where, you know, to get a lot of messaging out and I think this is pretty spectacular, what you guys are doing well, a little bit of the first episode and the studio's great.
[00:01:21] It's just a good setup. So I think you can tell a lot of good stories here. Well, thanks. We appreciate that. Thank you. No pressure on yourself now at some point in time, I think somebody got interview. You think about that? 
[00:01:33] Vince: [00:01:33] Maybe I'm old 
[00:01:34] Matt: [00:01:34] news. Yeah. Or they're just going to organically learn about you through your little snippets here.
[00:01:40] Maybe we'll drop a little things on people and it kind of person 
[00:01:44] Vince: [00:01:44] that's 
[00:01:44] Matt: [00:01:44] right. I can see. 
[00:01:47] Vince: [00:01:47] So that was my first one. Don't start everything with the words. So 
[00:01:52] Daniel: [00:01:52] there, and there it is. Oh, well 
[00:01:54] Matt: [00:01:54] take notes growing 
[00:01:55] Vince: [00:01:55] up in India. You just referred to that. Yeah. For the viewers, they may not know that. So [00:02:00] I know you and I go back a ways which we'll touch on.
[00:02:04] But tell us about your early life growing up here in India. 
[00:02:08] Matt: [00:02:08] Yeah. Um, so I, uh, actually, I don't know if you know this. I grew, I was born like five houses South you guys on Delaware, like 5,300 block of Delaware and grew up in the MK and, uh, just had a great. Fun little childhood that most people in our neighborhood have, um, uh, went to after high school.
[00:02:33] Where'd you go to grad school? You where I went, I went to 84. Okay. Yep. And then, so you were 
[00:02:37] Vince: [00:02:37] out on the other side of the street from, from us 
[00:02:39] Matt: [00:02:39] kids. I was, I want to say 84. So a little different than that. It was a, it was a true public school. Yeah. At that point in time, there was no CFI. Uh wasn't we didn't have.
[00:02:51] Um, there wasn't the focus on we'll call it like the half mile priorities zone with neighborhood kids. There were kids from all over the district that were there. Yeah. Um, [00:03:00] so yeah. Was your dad 
[00:03:01] Vince: [00:03:01] principal? 
[00:03:03] Matt: [00:03:03] No. No, 
[00:03:04] Vince: [00:03:04] but I'm not joking. I know tall, bald 
[00:03:08] Matt: [00:03:08] general Del port, who was, who was principal. He was not tall though.
[00:03:13] He was, he was. Bald with a mustache, pretty intimidating looking guy, school teacher, no warm and fuzzies with Mr. Del port, but similar to my dad, you know, big muscular guy. Right. Uh, unlike me, bald mustache would be like you, if you grow stash. Nobody 
[00:03:33] Vince: [00:03:33] wants to 
[00:03:34] Daniel: [00:03:34] say that we might have to have the ax. That one.
[00:03:37] Yeah. It might scare off some viewers there. Yeah, that's 
[00:03:39] Vince: [00:03:39] right. So no, it was Ron Jeremy references. 
[00:03:43] Matt: [00:03:43] Here he go. Bringing that back in don't we talked about that. Uh, those grew up in Indianapolis and, um, High school in India. Cathedral. Yeah, I won't go there. Yeah. Shitara okay. Trojan. So Trojans SI. Yeah. [00:04:00] Um, and then from there, w uh, went to ICU where I got to meet you.
[00:04:05] Highlight, 
[00:04:06] Vince: [00:04:06] highlight a wait a couple of years for me to come in. No, it was just 
[00:04:09] Matt: [00:04:09] one. Just one, one, no, your honor. Gotcha. 
[00:04:16] Vince: [00:04:16] So for Daniel's, uh, I guess education here. Yeah. So when I came or when I went into the Fiji house at, I knew I had the pleasure of being educated, educated, good word for 
[00:04:31] Daniel: [00:04:31] it. It's educational 
[00:04:32] Vince: [00:04:32] experience.
[00:04:33] Upperclassmen include Mr. King. Okay. Yeah, 
[00:04:37] Daniel: [00:04:37] yeah. Do you educate him? Well, 
[00:04:39] Matt: [00:04:39] I, I think I took a liking to events and so, um, I wasn't really one of those that. Really gave people a hard time. I don't think maybe you remember it differently 
[00:04:52] Vince: [00:04:52] if you did there. Trust me. There's several who stood out much more so than you.
[00:04:57] Yeah. Yeah, 
[00:04:59] Matt: [00:04:59] that's right. [00:05:00] But it's a close knit group. And so that's why it's, and I think it's different from most fraternities. I think it's kind of, for those that went die, you and understand that in our did the same experience we did. It was, it's a unique experience. It's very close knit group. Awesome.
[00:05:16] Yeah. Whatever they're doing down there works something in the water. Well, there's Fiji water, so yeah, 
[00:05:23] Daniel: [00:05:23] yeah, yeah. 
[00:05:24] Vince: [00:05:24] Right. They have the nice, the new palace. Now we have our old house mean gray house, but was there for a long time, but. It hit outlasted. Its welcome for sure. And then now they have this new house, which is the minute I have.
[00:05:39] Yeah. We went down for the ribbon cutting and I was like, Holy crap. Can I re-enroll I mean, do I have four years eligibility left? Let me come back. Um, it's it's outstanding. They did a great job of just setting it up and designing it and yeah, yeah, 
[00:05:52] Matt: [00:05:52] yeah. Yeah. Very jealous. Very thoughtful. Yeah. They live in it now, kids 
[00:05:57] Daniel: [00:05:57] these days.
[00:05:57] Right? Well, 
[00:05:58] Vince: [00:05:58] eh, [00:06:00] technology and money. So you graduated in 94. Yeah. Uh, and then talk about what what'd you do after I, you, 
[00:06:10] Matt: [00:06:10] so after I U I went to B school there in the BPO office business place for an office, you know, they interview heavily at IEU and, um, um, I was an accounting major at NYU while crazy thing.
[00:06:25] I didn't know that. And did not did an internship at what was bank one at the time over summer did not like that at all, saw what those guys were, uh, were doing. And, um, through the BPO interviewed with Hormel foods corporation. And that was a really unique experience because it took me away from Indi and expanded my comfort zone tremendously.
[00:06:50] Um, it's a. Company with a model of relocation for those that do well and, you know, advance [00:07:00] throughout. So it's little two year, three year assignments on, you know, similar to other companies like little Lily or whatnot, but that took me to seven different cities in 13 years. And so I reload. Um, let's see, I was, uh, Kansas city, Columbus, Ohio, Washington, DC, uh, Austin, Minnesota, where our corporate office was.
[00:07:22] Did a stint there and then Memphis, Tennessee, and then lastly in Boston and, uh, so that, you know, you do a lot of moving around on new jobs, new assignments. That's where I really cut my teeth. And then it's a really, really well-run company. Um, and have the. Opportunity to report to the current CEO of, of Hormel is someone I reported to for a couple of years directly and was in my division and, um, got great experience through there.
[00:07:52] So, and then in Oh eight, um, made the family decision to move back to Indianapolis [00:08:00] because at that point in time, all roads lead to, um, our corporate office there. And, um, So we just got off the reload train there and came back to India where most of my friends and family are, and that's a big part of my life.
[00:08:15] And one of the reasons why, you know, we moved back. I just didn't really ever envision myself not being back here. Cert a certain point, but like all or most corporations, you get the, I guess, verbal golden handcuffs where it's things are good and the idea of changing and doing something different that pain of, of experiencing that may outweigh just staying put.
[00:08:36] And then it gets to a point where we just thought, well, we need to come back to India. Sure. 
[00:08:42] Vince: [00:08:42] Did you come back to India with Hormel or you 
[00:08:45] Matt: [00:08:45] change it? I did not. I did a wholesaler change. I then moved, um, and in. Started with Boston scientific. Okay. Which is a medical device company. And I handled our, uh, urology division, um, kind of for, for [00:09:00] Indiana.
[00:09:00] A lot of key opinion leader doctors are here in Indian. Did that for, um, geez, I don't know, six, seven years or so, whatever that was. Yeah. And so just only had two, uh, Jobs really for the first 20 years of my career, both a pretty well run companies. And that's how I learned a lot of the skill sets that I have that kind of make me, um, at least effective at what I do today in life in general.
[00:09:31] Yeah. Which 
[00:09:32] Daniel: [00:09:32] today saw analysis, right? Yeah. Yeah. You switched from there and moved into that. What was that transition like? I did 
[00:09:38] Matt: [00:09:38] well that that's, uh, that's part of the. Cancer story really is how that transition there. That's just not a one, two sentence deal. So I'd probably go into that maybe a little bit later that looked like because that was not planned.
[00:09:51] Okay. You know, I did not plan to sell houses at all. Um, and it just kind of came about and, um, you know, really glad [00:10:00] it did because it's something I really enjoy and get a lot of. Um, so it's, it's rewarding and get a lot of positives out of it. So I'm good at it. I appreciate you saying they're good at it.
[00:10:12] Thank you. Yeah. Appreciate you saying that. So 
[00:10:16] Vince: [00:10:16] that's really actually a pretty good segue, quite frankly. Yeah. Um, one of the reasons why you're here, which you already will know may is skin cancer and melanoma awareness month. Yeah. Speaking 
[00:10:26] Matt: [00:10:26] of, yes, you've got some color I do on your forehead top of your head and just dip down a little bit, do one of these.
[00:10:35] You've got some sun spots up there, brother. No, I know. Well, what number do you use? The 30, the 45. You'd just do the hat with no sunscreen that has meshed that it 
[00:10:46] Vince: [00:10:46] depends on what hat I'm wearing. If I'm wearing one of the heroes trucker caps, which I typically do, which has the fact, then I will put, I'll put sunscreen on my head.
[00:10:56] Um, I would say at minimum it's [00:11:00] 15, but I think. The bottle of skin or sunblock that I have in my bag is 30. 
[00:11:05] Matt: [00:11:05] Yeah. They have 45 and 60. Okay. Okay. All right. Don't make me run that shit.  that drill? A couple of times, 
[00:11:15] Vince: [00:11:15] viewers, haven't seen some of our past episodes on the cancer protection. 
[00:11:18] Matt: [00:11:18] All right. Well, I could not let that go when I saw you in the hallway, and I know you were, you were golfing this last week or a little combo of.
[00:11:27] Work and pleasure. Yeah. It was 
[00:11:29] Vince: [00:11:29] a business trip that happened to include a couple rounds of golf. Good. 
[00:11:32] Matt: [00:11:32] Yeah. Good. Good. All right. I didn't mean to derail you. No, that's fine. That needed to be said 
[00:11:37] Vince: [00:11:37] never, never a problem. Talking about cancer prevention. That's right. 
[00:11:39] Matt: [00:11:39] So may, 
[00:11:40] Vince: [00:11:40] may, may is a great time to talk about sunblock because people are going outside now and protect 
[00:11:47] Daniel: [00:11:47] yourself.
[00:11:48] Someone's around the corner. You gotta take care of yourself, right? That's right. 
[00:11:52] Vince: [00:11:52] So again, may being skin cancer or melanoma awareness month. Matt, please share your cancer story or maybe I should say [00:12:00] what's your cancer story. 
[00:12:01] Matt: [00:12:01] Yeah. Um, okay. Don't talk about it a lot and don't usually talk about it in depth, so we'll see how it comes out, right?
[00:12:12] Yeah. Um, so let's see, this was back in 2000 and I think it's. 14 or so, so about seven years ago, um, one morning woke up, was putting on deodorant, left axillary gland, which for you. No medical terminology folks. That's here at left under arm. Um, lymph node gland. Thank you. It was putting on the, 
[00:12:44] Daniel: [00:12:44] I needed that.
[00:12:44] That clarification's right. 
[00:12:45] Matt: [00:12:45] Yeah. I'm here for you. Appreciate that. And you're doing a good job as a co-host too. Daniel. Thank you, sir. Appreciate that. Um, put on deodorant one morning and there was a lump that was sizable. That was not [00:13:00] there the day before. And so, um, I usually don't get to. Bent out of shape about stuff.
[00:13:06] And I don't really think I really was at that time. Uh, but it was enough to where I thought and we thought at the time, after it showed it to a couple of people, I said, you know, go to your GP, get it checked out. And we did that. Got it. Biopsied. And, uh, came back as melanoma. And so right then and there that's really concerning because melanoma is a very aggressive form of cancer.
[00:13:34] And so, um, minimum stage three, I believe at that time, cause it spread to at least one other place or maybe that stage two, but, um, went from there to I U to get scans immediately and. I mean, it wasn't even, you know, five days where that kind of took [00:14:00] place in time, where five days prior, five days from when you drive days from when I noticed the lump to the point in time where I'm getting scans and scan results in, it goes from zero to a million miles an hour because I came back, my scans came back that I had.
[00:14:17] Stage four melanoma had metastasized. It had all over my organs. It was my stomach liver spleen spot on my lung adrenal glands. Um, it had metastasized to my shoulder, a bone marrow. Which actually that presented itself a couple of months before the underarm thing, but we did not know what it was. It was, I went to go see our good friend, Pat Kurzy, um, that, and we took whatever imaging they have, because I thought it was just like a frozen shoulder type thing, but it was really sore.
[00:14:54] And I didn't have a full range of motion on it. And as time went on, I mean, I had it in a [00:15:00] slang. It was, it was painful, but we could what 
[00:15:02] Vince: [00:15:02] those Tomahawk dunks, she used to start finally coming back honcho. 
[00:15:06] Matt: [00:15:06] That's right. Um, any way. But I, you know, we, we could, we, we wouldn't have never known even to have it imaging that it was, uh, it was metastasized because they're not looking for that sports med.
[00:15:19] And so we just didn't know, but, uh, we did catch it. Um, at that point in time, it was August very early August and in 14. So almost coming up on seven years. And so that's a major breathtaking, Holy shit moment where, when we're getting the. Results of the scans I'm sitting at, I, you Simon with, uh, Dr. Ted Logan, my, uh, one of my oncologist, my main one right now.
[00:15:49] Um, and he is sitting there with my mom, dad, uh, with Robin and, you know, telling you I've got [00:16:00] six to 10 months to live and then giving statistics on at that time, what the. Um, landscape of melanoma treatment looked like, which was essentially it's, uh, it was a 90, or we'll flip it the other way. I think that's six to eight chance of survival beyond, um, He may have said three years may have said five years, 68%, 68% chance of survival beyond three to five years.
[00:16:31] But in my case, because it had gone to so many, um, internal organs, he said six months, and then, you know, 10 months, um, I think if you're fortunate or whatever that was, but we have treatment options and we can see what sticks, um, And the takeaway is the chemo is not going to do it. You know, chemo won't do, we'll take care of it.
[00:16:59] It looks, [00:17:00] it'll prolong things by a matter of months, but you've got to respond. Um, your body has to respond to some sort of immunotherapy treatment. And I think at that time, and forgive me if I'm wrong, cause I'm sure there's some oncology folks that will listen to this. I think it was interferon. If you guys have heard of that, but I think it was an inner, it was a, uh, an immunotherapy type response where the drug triggers your immune system and then the immune immune system, um, then goes after your cancer cells, which went previously undetected.
[00:17:35] Um, cause that's how cancers kind of sneaky like that and it mutates, but it goes undetected. And then the immunotherapy, uh, Like I said in big rates, your immune system, cheer, your immune system goes after it and kills it. But interferon is a nasty drug. And again, excuse me for those listening to probably know exactly what it is, but it's, it's really harsh.
[00:17:58] It's it really beats [00:18:00] you up. And it's a prolonged period of time. I think you're even in the ICU when you're taking it, because it's so toxic and not everybody, I mean, You know, I said six to 8%, I think number six to 8% of the people respond to it. And that was your only chance at the time. Um, but we knew at that time there were things coming down, the pipeline that were going to help.
[00:18:27] And I had melanoma probably, I mean, one of the best times, I mean, I still got pretty beat up. So what we did there was, um, I use really good at some. Specialties for cancer, obviously testicular cancer with Larry and Langhorne and a number of different, um, specialties where they're very, very good at where people come in from all over the world just to come to IUL MD Anderson's that way for melanoma.
[00:18:57] And so, and that's in Houston, Texas. So I [00:19:00] went down to Houston, um, in the fall, pretty much a meeting. It wasn't immediately. It was, it was. This was really weird. It was like five weeks before I went down there. And it was because I think we were in it wasn't because I couldn't get in right away because we had some contacts, you know, when you're, when you're facing death, you find a way.
[00:19:22] And we found a way to get in. I think that too, to see a doc by the name of Patrick, who, who, uh, ran the melanoma unit now, and now he runs, I think. Everything for immunotherapy for all of MD Anderson, he's just a remarkable, remarkable doctor. And was it an NIH with a lot of, uh, key opinion leaders there?
[00:19:46] And they worked with a lot of the pharmaceutical companies to develop what is the new standard of care gold standard for immuno therapy treatment for Mellon not only melanoma, but for [00:20:00] now it's expanded into other specialties is. Types of cancers as well. So when to MD Anderson and the plan was, um, so we knew there was going to be an immunotherapy drug coming on the market that the FDA was likely going to approve in January.
[00:20:21] And I went them to intercept in like September, October, and. We could get widespread use of that immunotherapy drug, which at that time had, I want to say about a 30% chance of to respond by. There was not a lot of data out because it was so new, you know, there are only certain trials. And then once they realize on the trials that it was really effective, they tried to get it out to market as soon as possible.
[00:20:48] Vince: [00:20:48] Now, since it hadn't been FDA approved, yet they had already run trials. It was, was this kind of like a dead space time? Like, could you have gone down and said, Hey, I want to be part of that trial or 
[00:20:58] Matt: [00:20:58] closed. It was closed now 
[00:21:00] [00:20:59] Vince: [00:20:59] waiting on final decision. It was time. There's nothing we can do 
[00:21:02] Matt: [00:21:02] exactly. Right.
[00:21:03] So that's why you go to places that, that are in the know of exactly what's going on. And it's not like you didn't know, it was that MD Anderson knew. A ton more about what was happening and what the best, you know, analyzing my body, what was going on based on what I could respond to at the time, knowing that I couldn't take what the drugs called Keytruda now, or pembro for short.
[00:21:31] And then, uh, that's, that's a Merck drug. And, uh, geez, I don't think about it a lot, but there's another drug that was that's. That was really similar. So, so 
[00:21:42] Daniel: [00:21:42] in that time period, were you on interferon then or had you not taken any of that kind of sitting, waiting for this kind of, well, 
[00:21:49] Matt: [00:21:49] I'll tell you that's what I was gonna to yeah.
[00:21:51] Um, is, so we did a bunch of cocktails of chemo, drugs, not the kind of cocktails [00:22:00] because I've been down with that. Um, no, we did, uh, we did, uh, a mix of, I took five different. Cocktails or sorry, five different types of drugs throughout the course of a five day periods. So I went to Houston four or five times for treatment that beat the shit out of me big time.
[00:22:28] Yeah. And, but the, the goal was to do the chemo to knock back the tumors from growing. Right anymore or at least even try to shrink them. Yeah. When you 
[00:22:41] Vince: [00:22:41] went down there each time, how long were you there for? 
[00:22:43] Matt: [00:22:43] I was there for four and five day period. Went down there for a couple of surgeries, um, to remove some tumors.
[00:22:52] And you know, you could've done it up here, but we just did it there because they they're specialists in it. I'm not that again, I don't want to take anything away from you of course, [00:23:00] because we are too, but we just did it. It was just more of an encompassing. Approach down there in that facility is freaking amazing concierge service.
[00:23:09] It's like here, you and I would love to see you get to this point where you come in and for the first time, and you don't leave, meaning we're going to get your scans over here. And it might be at 11 o'clock at night. And then from there tomorrow morning, you've got an appointment here with your oncologist and then, you know, you've got your surgery, you know, 12 hours later or whatever that is.
[00:23:34] And obviously those are those that would be great to have here, but here it's just, it's different. Um, same place like a Sloan Kettering or, um, or an MD Anderson, but anyway, took that cocktail of, of drugs for five days and then would fly home. I'm here to end the end, um, and then go back. I think it was maybe like two, three weeks later after [00:24:00] your body had a chance to re recharge as best as possible and, um, heal.
[00:24:06] So to speak. Let the chemo stuff do its work because the whole goal again, was to knock the tumor burden back so that once. Keytruda or whatever immunotherapy drug was going to work. That was FDA approved in January of 2015. I could start taking that and it would have, are it wouldn't have had the same burden to overcome because it was knocked back.
[00:24:31] And so in January of 15, I started taking Keytruda every three weeks. It was a pretty simple. Um, infusion didn't really feel some, some people reported feeling tough afterwards, similar. Like we were just talking about the, about the vaccines. Yeah. I tolerated it overall pretty well for the first couple of years.
[00:24:59] I mean, I was on [00:25:00] it for, um, uh, I was on it for geez. Two and a half, almost three years after the first. And they don't do that. I th I think now it's, it's much less because there's some side effects, which I'm sure I'm getting to, I'm now getting to enjoy, um, which I will gladly take for the trade off of what we've got.
[00:25:22] Um, but it was then about four to five months later after a couple of successive scans where we realized like, Holy shit, this is working. You know, this is real. This 
[00:25:34] Daniel: [00:25:34] is what was that feeling like the first time you saw that, that, that proof that it was working was having an effect and that you were reading?
[00:25:41] Yeah. 
[00:25:41] Matt: [00:25:41] Yeah, it was really, it was, it was amazing because there were some dark times going through that. There were some really, really, really, really dark times. And that's one of the things I think that, um, [00:26:00] I love about heroes on some of the things that you guys do with, if it was, was at first Mondays are okay.
[00:26:07] And then the, the, the, cause I really pay attention to the mental side of things. And it's like the obvious likable, no shit, dude. Everybody thinks about mental things, but for me approaching the cancer, approaching my treatment in approaching my mental state. And knowing that I have three boys at that time that were fifth grade, seventh grade and eighth grade.
[00:26:35] Okay. And, um, you know, I like to think looked up to me and, you know, followed, um, what my vibe was and how my energy levels was because right. Kids just follow what the vibe is and how you are and how you respond to things. And so I really paid it. A lot of attention to, um, how I was going to [00:27:00] react and respond and, and get myself through this situation, knowing that there's probably a good chance that I was going to die.
[00:27:10] And so then it becomes all right. How do you, you, you, you now have your legacy in front of you. That is, that is. Being fast forwarded to where, how people may remember you is how you went through these, you know, months or six months or however, that was until a, if it's a positive outcome, that's awesome.
[00:27:35] And then, you know, it's even better and that's what this has become, but, and then if it wasn't going to be a positive outcome, at least you did it in a manner. Which people could be proud of. And specifically you're talking about your kids. Um, and I knew that I had, I had a huge fan base support through our, you know, long time North side, uh, or just Indian general connections that we [00:28:00] have.
[00:28:00] And, um, you know, Vincent, I have a great network of friends and, um, and so a lot of support to get through it. But to answer the question, you know, when you see that. That it's working and that it's positive. Um, it was pretty awesome. Yeah. 
[00:28:15] Daniel: [00:28:15] And I assume you got some, a new type of energy in you when that, when that happened.
[00:28:21] I think 
[00:28:21] Matt: [00:28:21] so. Yeah, I think so. Um, I'm sure. And then, you know, you've been start hoping, well, okay. So there's data that time that says, and not to rain on that thought, but there's always data that says, well, you know, some, some of these things have a short-term effect where you get bounced backwards or, or you, you take a couple steps forward, but then after time, maybe your body doesn't respond.
[00:28:46] And we know that, you know, melanoma is a very aggressive type of cancer and you can. It can mutate, it can come back and let's just make sure that it's still happening. And as, as we found out, it did come back later. So [00:29:00] there's, there's kind of the ups and downs of it. Um, so that was fall or I'm sorry, spring of, of 15.
[00:29:12] Um, and I was. Pretty much deemed I think cancer free or very close to it. We just didn't know. We just didn't know if, what was that? Yes. Yeah. It was 
[00:29:25] Vince: [00:29:25] one of the two and a half years that you were on Keytruda. Did they make 
[00:29:28] Matt: [00:29:28] that call? Yeah. Um, I've got pretty conservative oncologist and uh, Dr. Logan there, I was very even keeled and it doesn't get you hyped up.
[00:29:39] Like maybe the, some of the people at MD Anderson bed. Um, And so it was very cautious approach of like, Hey, things are looking good here. And, you know, I would always want to know, okay, well, how good, what does this mean? What does this mean? And so it's always, he always had the asterisk of, we just don't know because we just didn't have [00:30:00] any long-term data, excuse me, related to any of it.
[00:30:05] But what I did know is that I felt. Good. I felt pretty good. Um, so much to where I think I, that summer I trained for the monumental, uh, half marathon and got all the way to the last week before I got an injury, which is kind of a bummer, but I made it to at least some of my long runs where I think at that time, 10, 11 miles or so, which is, which was good.
[00:30:30] Yeah. Um, Anyway, but it was, it was, it was after about six months of Keytruda where it was like, I think most, everything looks good and is gone here. So then we start this ties into Daniel. The aspect of which to me was a pretty tough. I will say a very, very tough year for me from that point on. And it's something that I [00:31:00] think about a lot and, you know, you meet because you want to be gracious with the result that you're given.
[00:31:06] Um, the fact that, you know, things are progressing very, very well. When many people did not have an opportunity to experience that, but. For me, a very important piece of getting back to normal was getting back to work. And, um, it was hard for me to get back to work. And the main reason was, is I would interview for jobs.
[00:31:33] I went back to Boston scientific. My previous company to interview for previous jobs, uh, went to. A couple other med device companies as well. Cause that was the space I came in. I knew it well and yeah, and very marketable skillset there. And I was not getting jobs and it was, uh, it was a buyer's market at that time for, you know, for getting positions.
[00:31:59] And [00:32:00] I would talk about my cancer in the interview. I D I that's who I am is what I was at the time. And I, I even had that as a. Success story of this is what happened. This is what I did. This is, you know, the classic interview format of this is what happened. This is what I did. This was the result. This is what I learned from it.
[00:32:20] And this is how I can, this is an asset to going forward. Talk about resiliency, talking about mental fortitude and everything related to what that experience does, which I think I already had a bit, some of those skillsets going into cancer, frankly. Um, but I wasn't getting job offers in that. To me was unbelievably disheartening, frustrating.
[00:32:44] And in many ways I was my dark. Periods or dark days were during that period more so, and the cancer days. Right. And the reason being, I think is if I could put [00:33:00] my finger on it, because part of me feels guilty for even saying that, like, how dare you say that when there are people that don't get through that.
[00:33:06] And I think, and I'm just being honest about it. And it's because you felt like you're wearing a Scarlet letter. I, I think really the piece is, is that, that that is one piece of it because it was just so new. But I really think the piece was, is I had such an easier time during the cancer period is because I couldn't control the science.
[00:33:23] I couldn't control what my body did, whether it reacted to it or not at what level, of course at some level. Okay. We'll get your rest eat. Right. Those types of things. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Great. Kind of did that anyway. Um, and. Uh, and so you're resigned to the fact of like, um, I can accept whatever happens there.
[00:33:43] So I'm not going to beat myself up about anything because I can't control it. What I can control is how I act, how I respond relationships with people, all that. But then now I enter into this phase where you're struggling to get back to what your sense of normal is. And I would [00:34:00] assume that a lot of cancer patients or people that have had some sort of traumatic life altering situation have that.
[00:34:09] That piece to them of how do you get back to what is your normal life to where you can feel good about going forward? And I'm a provider. I mean, I had boys and, and kids and, uh, bills and things like that. And, um, was fortunate that I had saved money during my life to where, you know, I could burn through basically at that time was, was a couple years without working.
[00:34:37] Yeah. Um, and yeah, so that probably leads us up to what I did next, uh, for career-wise. But, um, I take a little break here, 
[00:34:49] Vince: [00:34:49] right? Absolutely. So I remember those days seeing you and talking with some of our other, uh, mutual friends about what you're going through [00:35:00] and how you were responding and adapting and.
[00:35:03] You touched on the attitude piece, we've talked to a lot of different people. Who've had gone through the cancer experience, um, or even their caregivers and how important attitude is. And, and I, it, it sounds cheesy, I guess, but it attitude going through is absolutely monumental. And in frankly, even after the fact know, we talked a lot of people about.
[00:35:24] You know, having the right positive attitude and, and how difficult that can certainly be at times. And, and, and there's no question you're certainly allowed to have those dark days cause we all have them. Um, but trying to have that, that, that more positive attitude when going through it, it plays a big role.
[00:35:40] Matt: [00:35:40] Yeah, for sure. I could not agree more on it. And I think mostly like the, your. When you're going through that treatment and you're going through that period, your life is it's. Okay. Let's just take the cancer piece out of the equation and the treatment piece out of the equation. It's like, what's your [00:36:00] brain doing?
[00:36:00] What's your mind doing? You're used to working. You're used to, uh, uh, a job or social things or things that stimulate your brain and your mind. And it's, it was like six months ago. Sitting on the couch at home and watching the wire and breaking bad and things. And you know, and literally while, you know, somewhat empty home while there, you know, the family and people are doing outliving their lives, and you've got time on your hands just to sit and think about things and you try to get through it as best you can without the same, uh, you know, like I said, your, your mind being stimulated to get you through that, what we take for granted sometimes right now, right?
[00:36:44] Yeah. So, um, yeah, so that lead, that led me to what my career is now. And that was, uh, after I realized that, and this is a really, this is a kind of a cool moment, I think [00:37:00] only because it's worked out well. Right. You can look at everything in the rear view mirror and say it worked out well. As I just realized that I was not at that point in time when I wasn't getting jobs and work, and I was really disgruntled with, with.
[00:37:15] Just the way corporations work, corporate America in general, working for, we'll just say working for other people. I looked at it and said, I I'm not. I now in a transition in my life where I realized that I cannot rely on somebody else or some other person or some other, you know, VP in a corporation and report to, to, or I'm going to make my living and make my money.
[00:37:36] And it had, it did well before. Um, so I'm not going to. Subject myself. I need to basically need to go out and make my own head is what it came down to and start my own thing. That's pretty scary, you know, when you spend your life getting a W2 and, and um, some weeks earn your wages some weeks, don't, you know, just by the way, your abs and [00:38:00] flows go with having an employer and whatnot.
[00:38:01] So, yep. Um, kind of came to grips with, well, we're gonna go do something or we're going to start something. And so what would that be? And had, you know, meetings and lunch, networking and things set up with people about, you know, what do you do? How'd you get started? Why did you do it? What's the reward. Um, what would you recommend?
[00:38:24] I do those types of things, you know, just the green ass questions. Yeah. I 
[00:38:29] Vince: [00:38:29] would love to hear some of the answers on what do you think I would be good at? What do you think I should do? Yeah, I can imagine some of the answers and they probably probably span the 
[00:38:38] Matt: [00:38:38] entire spectrum. Probably start looking at me and start laughing and say it like, dude, you.
[00:38:43] You got a tough road ahead. I'm sorry. Good thing. She survived that cancer thing. Cause you're gonna need to apply that skill set to what you're doing right now, the way I know you. Um, and so w w you know, long story short with that, I just met with a lot of people and it came down to real [00:39:00] estate, but it wasn't selling houses.
[00:39:03] It was originally going to be, um, uh, whether it was commercial investing, um, developing. Rentals, whatever, just, and then I knew realtor was a piece of it. And so the first step you do is take your, you know, you take your real estate school to get your license. And that, um, school that I did was the Tucker school of real estate and got exposed at least to the rent residential side from there.
[00:39:34] And I really liked my. Instructor there I did a crash course. It was like 15 straight days. Um, and got my license. Um, just kind of liked what I saw it at FC Tucker and joined in. And. The rest is kind of history went really quickly for me and off to a really good start there just because that was, and that's, [00:40:00] I would say that's kind of the final piece I'll say, or one of the final pieces, I'll say the cancer story is then what do you do coming out of the woods to then, you know, we already talked about how important it was for me to get.
[00:40:15] Work back and have a job and to continue on the path of success. Um, um, my start in, in real life, the state was a really good one, a really fast one in that not a lot of people do. And it's, I think it's mainly Germany by a couple of things. I mean, number one, I had a pretty good skillset coming into it, but then the other piece was, is my, my drive was just.
[00:40:40] Unhealthy frankly, um, not, well, not unsustainable. We'll say it was, it was praying, came to the gate, 
[00:40:48] Daniel: [00:40:48] wanting to get started. 
[00:40:50] Matt: [00:40:50] Just wanted to get off to just an unreal start and be good because that was still the last or one of the final chapters of the story [00:41:00] that I was, you know, one of the pieces of advice that somebody gave me and you get a lot of good advice when you're going through cancer.
[00:41:07] And that treatment is, I think are really two pieces. Number one is write your story and, um, how you want it to go. And you could say that about life in general. Like you are your own author, write the story on how you want it to go and go do it. So I kind of outlined what I, how I want it to go and you know, any good story that is worth a shit.
[00:41:29] And a story has, uh, has. Downtimes and has, has bad parts, right? You follow what a good story in a movie or sitcom is? It's, there's the dissension and there's the trouble and the turmoil tour. Then you can go up and I certainly have, um, and then the other piece, um,
[00:41:54] golly, man, I made it this far and we say this because. [00:42:00] Josh is a really, really good friend of mine. And he lost his wife, Laura,
[00:42:12] and he gave me just some unreal advice. One of them, the best one was, you know, cancer will give you gifts along the way. If you watch out for him. So I watched out for him quite a bit and he was right. Yep. A hundred percent. There are a lot of, really, a lot of really, really, really, really positive things that can come out about them in they're all related to personal relationships.
[00:42:50] At least most of them are. And then also we'll call it just. Revelations that you find out yourself [00:43:00] from a lot of self learning, a lot of self discovery. Um, and if you pay attention and take that feedback of what you're experiencing and implement whatever tools of learning that you have in your life, I mean, I'm a different person coming out of that.
[00:43:18] And so anyway, that was the two really good piece of advice that. That I got. So coming back to that, very end of the, where I am now in what I'm doing, it was just, uh, it was just, I needed to write the last portion of the story and that is getting back to work. Something you enjoy hit a home run on that.
[00:43:43] Something that you're good at. Yeah. Someone, something that's rewarding. And, um, so that's what I'm doing right now. That's awesome. So it worked out. Yeah. Yeah. It's 
[00:43:53] Vince: [00:43:53] gone. It's gone fairly well. I would 
[00:43:55] Daniel: [00:43:55] say. 
[00:43:55] Matt: [00:43:55] Yeah, it's good. It's fine. It's fine. Yeah. I look back at those first couple of years though. And [00:44:00] it's like, it was pretty, I don't know how I did that because I don't know.
[00:44:05] I can't, I don't think I can replicate it right now. And I know I'm way more efficient. Um, I don't waste time on things that are not worthy of wasting time on and, um, I don't know. It's it was. It was a blur really, but glad I'm in the spot that I'm in right now. Well, but I think 
[00:44:25] Vince: [00:44:25] that's like for anyone's job, I mean, you got to get that experience and you look back where you were three years, five years, however long ago to where you are today.
[00:44:35] I mean, I think I speak for Daniel and I, you know, from our perspective, I mean, I know we're doing things differently just like anybody else. And so you learn as you go and yeah. I, I remember when you first got into it and I know where you are now. And yeah, I would say it's very clear that, that, uh, you have, uh, become much more successful and efficient then than you were back in the day one.
[00:44:59] Sure. [00:45:00] Hopefully anybody 
[00:45:00] Matt: [00:45:00] would be. Yeah. Yeah. I think we'll, you guys will find out too. I mean, this is what I'm number three. Yep. Is that right? Yeah. Just thinking about it. Yeah. Or you guys could take this really? Yeah. Still learning. 
[00:45:11] Daniel: [00:45:11] I mean, each one has been different so far. It's it's been it's, it's a lot of fun to see how we can continue to use this, to help others understand their story and what they learned from it and kind of hopefully pass that on to others as we, as we continue to do it.
[00:45:26] I think that exciting, 
[00:45:27] Matt: [00:45:27] I think we're passing on to others is the big piece because I looked at, um, I had a lot of time on my hands at that time and there were podcasts out at that time. And I looked around for cancer related podcasts and there were. A few, but, and there was maybe one or two that actually caught my attention.
[00:45:48] Um, but I've fizzled out after a couple of episodes because it wasn't enough to keep you there. So I think that's really the biggest piece is can you guys be interesting, engaging, tell stories that. [00:46:00] Built in to build an audience from it. And I think, you 
[00:46:02] Vince: [00:46:02] know, I don't think anyone's used the word interesting and engaging when describing me or, well, I'm not gonna speak for you.
[00:46:08] You can speak for yourself. 
[00:46:09] Daniel: [00:46:09] Yeah. I mean, probably not. It's not, not too often. Yeah. We're leaning 
[00:46:14] Vince: [00:46:14] on our brain. 
[00:46:17] Matt: [00:46:17] Right? Exactly. Well, 
[00:46:20] Vince: [00:46:20] so, I mean, thank you for sharing that story. Thank you. Certainly we both know Josh and, and know, uh, the story of Laura and, um, unfortunately didn't end as, as we would all. 
[00:46:31] Matt: [00:46:31] And then I don't want to leave out my dear friend, Eric ORM as well with Jill Cressey.
[00:46:38] And hopefully I was able to help him. Through that, but Jill's was really sudden, she wasn't really sudden she was like 45 days from I'm not feeling well and going into the hospital to death. Yeah. It was, it was lightening fast. And then maybe one of the 
[00:46:56] Vince: [00:46:56] quickest ones that I've ever personally 
[00:46:58] Matt: [00:46:58] known of.
[00:46:59] Yeah. [00:47:00] And, and, um, so I don't want to not mention her. Those two are on my screensaver icon. I think about them very often for sure. 
[00:47:12] Vince: [00:47:12] Wow. So are you still on any sort of maintenance therapy at this point? 
[00:47:18] Matt: [00:47:18] Great question. Um, I am not. And the reason being is a couple of years ago, I started developing some, um, side-effects and still have, um, them they're manageable, manageable that first.
[00:47:40] Year that I was in work back to back to working full-time at Tucker. Um, I had something stupid, like 43 doctor's appointments on a year. I had, I had 18 immunotherapy [00:48:00] treatments. I had 15 radiation treatments and I had something like. Whatever that the balance of that number is there's appointments. And it was into that second year, um, of work, which would have been two years ago.
[00:48:20] I think, I don't know, maybe three years ago, I, these numbers, whatever, two, three years ago where I started develop some things where I was like, okay, This isn't right. And so we made the decision to get off of Keytruda because at that time, the thinking was, even though scans were looking good there for likely, I don't know, it was probably 18 months there where everything was clear.
[00:48:47] Oh, shit. I forgot to tell you one thing first year. I'm sorry. First week I start where I'm. At Tucker where I'm doing like their new employee. Yeah. Their engagement, whatever engagement, [00:49:00] like welcome. Here's where the toilets are. Here's where the water coolers. Um, I got scan results while I'm freaking sitting.
[00:49:11] Cause you know how to read scans after awhile, I got scan results that I go onto the ICU port. I have a fricking tumor in my small bowel. That's like seven centimeters and I'm like, so I leave there in the middle of this class. Right. Be right back. Um, and I just drive it out the window that cellularly that I just drive, I just drove straight down to Simon.
[00:49:41] And after. People know me now, you know, it's hard to mess and I ignore the things I'm really, really, um, I'm very trying to be very nice to people. It's very thankful for all the staff did. So I, I could, I didn't even go into the front desk, mate. I just walked in the back. I'd take the back stairwell. [00:50:00] I'd know that place inside and out, walked into the back, walk, walk back right into Dr.
[00:50:04] Logan's office. And I'm like, What do we do here? What do we got? And so we did surgery for, we just took it out and then we. It was localized. Okay. But it's still fricking stage four, right? It's still stage four. So you can say I still am stage four. So that was the other hiccup, um, where I hit the reset button mentally.
[00:50:29] Was that roughly? I'm sorry. When was that? Roughly? That was, um, that was thanks. Giving week of 16. Okay. So here's the cool part about that? This Thanksgiving will be. Five years. So that's huge. So we'll see if we, if that sticks, I don't know why it wouldn't, but I've been five years, but I was essentially a year and a half, 18 months almost basically is about 18 months.
[00:51:00] [00:50:59] Cancer-free and then right before I start, what I think is going to be my, you know, new line of work, I get that the setback of like, well, actually you're gonna come in and we're going to. So that's why that first year I had, I had radiation, I had other treatments. I had all these doctors appoint following up from the small bowel tumor that they removed.
[00:51:22] And so that was even more reason why I wanted to get out of the gate. Very, very strong, because now I'm like, I got, I've got. Things going against me too. That I'm where I'm trying to fix. Right. This story. Yeah. Trying to get some shit done over here. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so, uh, I think that's why it was really begging for it too.
[00:51:44] But from the treatment standpoint, I stopped a couple of years ago. Um, and. So I haven't been on anything at that time. Would you have normally continued 
[00:51:55] Vince: [00:51:55] on with it as well? 
[00:51:56] Matt: [00:51:56] That's that was the piece is right now. I don't think they're having people [00:52:00] do that because there are now some get, again, the catch phrase I heard all the time is like, well, we just don't have any data on it.
[00:52:07] We don't have any three-year data. We had only five-year data because it was rolled out so quickly. And I was, I was among the first people are lying. I was the early dad. I am the dad. I was the early 
[00:52:17] Daniel: [00:52:17] adopter trend, et cetera. 
[00:52:19] Matt: [00:52:19] Yeah, there you go. Good I'm for bed. Um, so now I think they have people take, I don't know if it's five, eight, 10 treatments, or if it then until side effects occur.
[00:52:32] Um, but for me it was something like 50, 50, right around the 50 treatment Mark. And then we started realizing, okay. Um, it does. And can beat you up a little bit. Right. And everyone varies. Some people have to, you know, exit after like the third treatment and some people attempt and some people, the 40th everybody's different.
[00:52:56] Okay. With that. Yes. And nothing anymore. Now I just go get [00:53:00] scans every three months. And when was your last scan? Hmm, maybe about three months ago. I think I'm due. Pretty soon. I think it's in the next week or two. I just go on my portal three months ago. All good. All good. Awesome. All good. Fantastic. Yeah.
[00:53:16] Yeah. Big time. 
[00:53:18] Yeah. 
[00:53:18] Vince: [00:53:18] My dropout that that's right. There you go. What else are we missing? And 
[00:53:24] Matt: [00:53:24] there's a lot. Yeah. Um,
[00:53:30] I think at some point in time, we need to tell your story. We'll get to that later. We're not going to do it now, but I want you to. I think that be bad. Yeah. I 
[00:53:39] Daniel: [00:53:39] think he's, I think he's always had in for the, for the hosts for co-hosting on that one, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's a reversal. Yeah.
[00:53:49] Here we go. I think that would work. 
[00:53:50] Vince: [00:53:50] That'd be fine. I think one thing that's unique, you and I share a similar mindset. If we don't, you can kick me under the table or punch me above the table. [00:54:00] Um, And we, we tell us, I tell us, did multiple people, and I think you can probably share the same thing. So Matt, along with Daniel, we're on the heroes foundation board.
[00:54:08] And aside from just the obvious, which is thank you for supporting us in that way, but for you and I, it would be really easy to, for you just to focus on, you know, melanoma as a, as a, as a cancer that you want to support and push and et cetera, and fight. Um, it'd be really easy for me to do the same with, uh, with hop, which a little with lymphomas or, or blood cancers.
[00:54:32] But I think we share the same mindset is we hate all cancers. Like not just the once we had all of them. Right. And we want to basically junk punch every single one of them to the extent that we can. And so that's why. Um, that's why we're doing 
[00:54:49] Matt: [00:54:49] what we're doing. Right. Well, you know, my story on that is I started out on the board of a melanoma foundation, outrun the sun, which is a great organization that does a lot for melanoma [00:55:00] prevention is one of the few melanoma only, um, foundations.
[00:55:05] And that was why I wanted to transition to heroes. And I was still doing stuff with heroes at the same time, but you didn't want me anybody else? That's all right. Um, So I just, I just transitioned over here, which I'm glad I did. And I'm also glad I spent a couple of years without run the song. Absolutely.
[00:55:26] Yeah. Yep. 
[00:55:27] Vince: [00:55:27] Good group. Um, appreciate what they're doing and your assistance, helping them and, and certainly happy to have you on board here as well. Yeah. I would be remiss if I didn't mention, because you know, this is going to drop in may. It's Indy. Yeah, man. Andy is. Everything. Yup. Hopefully knock on wood.
[00:55:47] Our good friends wish 
[00:55:48] Matt: [00:55:48] people could see the pants you're wearing right now. Well, come on now. 
[00:55:52] Vince: [00:55:52] How's this, there, there we go. Better. Um, our good friends, Doug Bowles and Roger Penske are working their butts off as they have over the [00:56:00] last, you know, shit. 18 months, 24 months. I'm trying to pull off any 500 on, on a normal schedule or as normal as can be this year.
[00:56:09] What are your big plans? What's the Kinger do for the 
[00:56:13] Matt: [00:56:13] Indy 500? Um, I don't think a whole lot beyond like a week or two. And it's really strange. I really don't. I plan my vacations usually pretty. So the answer is, I don't know. Right. I would love to, I would, I would love to go to the right fit. I like that.
[00:56:30] I would love to go to the race. I, um, I go about every four years and we went, um, a couple years ago, probably a year, but for quarantine, it was a year for quarantine. And I went with. Uh, my boys and we loved it. They loved it. Yeah. I don't think they won one had been, they'd all been to the brick yard, but they hadn't been to the 500.
[00:56:57] Yeah. And then we, I just didn't grow up being a [00:57:00] 500 person the way I know the way you guys are and the way some families are where it's religious year in and year out. But I would love to go, um, So 
[00:57:10] Vince: [00:57:10] I, that you probably picked a good time. Don't ask me why the Todd family, we get it now that we have kids around.
[00:57:16] So my parents always said, well, there's this rule. You have to be nine before you can go to the race. Right. We don't get it. Well, once you have kids, can you imagine taking like a three or four year olds and they have a meltdown, two hours in, and it's like, dude, we're here all day. We're not leaving. So I get it now.
[00:57:33] Uh, fortunately at least two of my three kids are. In a hundred percent, the other one could, could go either way, but since everyone else is going, then she's into, 
[00:57:41] Matt: [00:57:41] so yeah, yeah, yeah. We're excited. Your tailgate that I stopped by is pretty nice. I mean, that's a comfy deal there. Meaning if they don't really feel like being, are you guys in shaded spots?
[00:57:52] Uh, 
[00:57:53] Vince: [00:57:53] there, so I don't know that there's any shade any more, because there's an induced a new surface lot just by the main entrance that we'll be [00:58:00] at. Um, talking about your seats. Oh, the seats, sorry. Yes. Yeah. Once, uh, about after. 1230. Yeah. So not too long after the race 
[00:58:08] Matt: [00:58:08] starts or like, I, I couldn't, it's not just because of melanoma it's because just being not bright, it's freaky.
[00:58:16] Yeah. Turning three. And if you don't get a 
[00:58:19] Vince: [00:58:19] breeze with SPF, whatever, you can get multiple times. So that's 
[00:58:24] Matt: [00:58:24] a prereq for me. It's gotta be sh uh, Shay or at least like you talking about it when you're on that West side. I think the West part of it is the sun goes over a certain spot and it's like 1130, 1145 when it finally gets set.
[00:58:34] And then you're. You're good. Yeah. Does the race still start at 11 or is it now like one? I 
[00:58:40] Vince: [00:58:40] should know this. I think, I think it's about, I think it's closer to one. I believe. Yeah. Got one Oh five or one Oh seven or something to that effect. 
[00:58:47] Matt: [00:58:47] But yeah, what I've seen is freer the girls. If they get hot or boards, go down to the tailgate area, getting the air conditioning card.
[00:58:57] Do whatever, Lisa, I remember it being a good spot when I was [00:59:00] walking by it, but maybe I was feeling no pain too. Well. That's part of 
[00:59:02] Vince: [00:59:02] who's your house fatality. Yeah. That's right. Well Kinger thanks for coming on and sharing your story. I appreciate it. I appreciate 
[00:59:10] Matt: [00:59:10] you. Thank you. You too. Yeah, you guys fun going to do some good things.
[00:59:15] That's what we're here for. That's the goal. Awesome. Thanks. All right. You got it.