Mike and Jamie Simek === Vince: [00:00:00] So how did we meet? Um, or Mike is asking how we met. Yep, Daniel: yep. We've known each other a while. Vince: Yeah. I think we're about the same age. Very close in age. Mm. Yeah. Sorry. No, uh, Daniel's quite a bit younger than I am. Daniel: Uh, so actually our dads both met each other first. Okay. Um, so we've, the Brookfield Group has been doing it and things like that for acessa, for, I dunno, 15. Daniel: Years now. Oh, at least some over 15, I think. Maybe pushing 20. Almost 20, yeah. Yeah. So I probably met Vince I think when I was in high school, working for the Brookfield Group. So known him. Known him a while from that. Vince: That doesn't Mike: make me feel old at all. Fantastic. Yeah. And then, Daniel: uh, so now I run the Brookfield Group and then um, Vince keeps me busy with lots of ideas and things to do and then we both play golf. Daniel: So yeah. Thank you for that. That helps us. That was nice. That helps us. Uh, you know, we do a lot of golf work meetings. Mm-Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely get a lot done that way. Business development. [00:01:00] Business development, absolutely. Yeah. Mike: Yeah. Good stuff. Good stuff. Thanks for sharing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No problem. Mike: All right. Um, so if you need any IT related questions, he's the man. Yeah, he's the man. Good to go, Daniel. Thank you. Yeah, no problem. Mike: Is this thing going. Vince: Hey guys. Welcome back to another episode of the Summits podcast. Thank you all for joining us from wherever you get your podcasts. Uh, for those of you joining us on the Heroes Foundation YouTube channel, thank you for tuning in. We appreciate you. Don't forget, hit that subscribe button, hit the notification bells. Vince: You can be alerted when new episodes like this one drop. We would appreciate it, won't cost you a dime. Alright, folks, big guest today, Mike and Jamie Simmick. Mm-Hmm, Mike: you got it. Perfect. Good. Vince: Um, welcome to the Summits Mike: podcast. Thank you. Thanks for having us. You're [00:02:00] welcome. Vince: Why don't you guys, uh, give us a little intro? Mike: Sure. Well, uh, first I want to say thank you first for giving us the opportunity to come say hello to you. Vince, thanks for, you know, introducing yourself. We spent a lot of time with you before the podcast and telling us about your story and about this organization. And so hats off to you guys, the great work that you're doing. Mike: Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here with you this morning, so thanks for that. Likewise. So, uh, we were talking earlier, right? So you said introduce yourself. I'm from, uh, Michigan. My bride here is from Indiana. And, uh, you know, spent. My, my years in southeast Michigan. Grew up with the college. Okay. Uh, graduated college and then went to the Marine Corps. Mike: Um, so since, you know, spent 25 years in the Marine Corps, active in reserve, uh, deployed to Afghanistan for a time, which will come back into this story I think a little bit. Um, and when I was up at Purdue University Right. Nice. When I was recruiting marine officer candidates, I ran into this young lady. Mike: Who was getting her graduate degree at, at Purdue and I was supposed to be recruiting for the Marine Corps and I was recruiting for my corps. I was just gonna interject with that, but yeah, you gimme to it. She was not qualified to [00:03:00] be a marine officer. Right. We had to disqualify Right, right from the outset. Mike: So, uh, we got married, went back to, uh, so, um, interject a little bit to that. So. 2001, um, right before nine 11 in fact. And Okay. My mom, um, who was very close with, got diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. Okay. And that was, she was 52, I think, at the time. Okay. And her, her father, my grandfather. Also had pancreatic cancer and died at 52. Mike: So, okay. That was a shock to the system. And it was, you know, right at the point of whether or not I was gonna stay in the Marine Corps, make it a career or transition. So that was kind of what helped us make the transition Mm-Hmm. Out of the Marine Corps. And they were great to me. By the way, let me go early. Mike: Let me go back to Michigan, spend, you know, spend time with my mom. Okay. Help be a caregiver for, uh, you know, she needed a lot of help. Mm-Hmm. And then she passed away in 2001. Um, late 2001. So I was off active duty for a while and then Jamie and I got married in 2002. Uh, spent a number of years in Michigan and you know, GAILs wanna go back where they're, where they're from. Mike: So we [00:04:00] decided in 2008 to come back here to Indiana. We've had lived here ever since and it's been great. Love it. Uh, love Indiana. Uh, when we were living in Michigan, when you go back to home, it never really was quite home like it is here, right? Being by Jamie's family and. Being close to friends. We've lived there for 15 years. Mike: Our, our kid, uh, our two kids, Kate, who's at Purdue? At Purdue right now, freshman at Purdue. Uh, she was three years old and Tyler, our son was three months old when we left. And poor guy, uh, you know, I don't know how this happened, but he came a Lions fan, right? I'm like, son, you don't need to be Alliance fan. Mike: You could become a Cults fan. And, uh, we had a great year this year, but I'll say, yeah, it was a good year this year. Yeah, it was a good year, but many years has been, uh, mediocrity, but we're also a Michigan football fan, so he's got that going for that. So it's good. It's been a good year. Yeah, we, uh, we were at the national title game, so it was been a great year and, uh, you know, part of, you know, getting diagnosed with cancer, like, all right, life is short. Mike: We're gonna enjoy a lot of this life. So, Mm-Hmm. Yeah, we took advantage of that and had a good time. So, um, what else can you add? [00:05:00] You pretty well covered it, I think. Yeah. Jamie, are you, well you said you're from Indiana originally. Whereabouts? Jamie: Uh, so my family grew, uh, is from Rockville. Okay. Covered Bridge Festival. Jamie: Yeah. Okay. It's, uh, straight west of Indianapolis, so, yep. I went to high school, uh, in Rockville, went to Purdue. Okay. Um, my bachelor's and master's degrees are from there and I've actually never not worked for nonprofits and so, okay. Um, so yeah, we have, uh. We've had a good run in a couple different places, and I've, uh, love our community, uh, here in Indianapolis, like Mike said. Jamie: Mm-Hmm. They've been amazing. Yeah. Kind of how we were talking before, just right. To have those people surrounding you. Mm-Hmm. Yeah. Mike: Okay. Cool. Vince: Um, pancreatic cancer relative to your mom and your grandfather. Yeah. Mm-Hmm. Um, still, still one of the tough ones out there. Very much so. Um. Typically, I'm not a physician, so don't Mm-Hmm. Vince: You can comment all you want. That's Daniel: right here starting now. Right. Vince: But, uh, it, it's, it's, it tends to be one of [00:06:00] those that you don't discover. Don't start, start, start seeing symptoms until it's metastasized or it's progressed far enough along. Right. That's right. I know that just through some random readings that there are. Vince: A variety of projects focused on pancreatic right now because it is so lethal. Mm-Hmm. Um, one of which, and there may be multiple, but one of which I know is, um, trying to detect it earlier just via a blood test. Yeah. As simple as that, which Mm-Hmm. Would be phenomenal for all cancers. Yeah. Um, I think there are, there are some that are making some pretty significant progress there. Vince: That would be huge. Um, esp especially for a, a, a cancer type like that. So, you know, knock on wood, they can continue down that path and. Um, hopefully we can help them with that. Yeah. But, uh, that, that would be good. Um. So what was the next step? I mean, you said you moved to Indianapolis or Indiana in oh eight. Vince: Um, then where things progressed from there. Yeah. So where were you working at Mike: the time? So, uh, I spent most of my adult career in kind of defense industry, [00:07:00] so I was working with Kelly. Right, sure. Our good friend Kelly Canada, who's I think your volunteer right over the year. Absolutely. So. She and I worked together. Mike: Um, so were you with Rolls Royce then? I was. Okay. Okay. So let's see. Um, so I got off active duty in 2001, which was right before nine 11. Literally like a month after. Right? Well, I'm sorry, a month before. And, um, strange time. So, fast forward two and a half, three years. We're in Michigan, it's 2004. I feel like I'm a able-bodied person. Mike: You have one quick question? Vince: Sure. I, I did not ever serve my, my father did for 20 plus years in the Navy, so I'm somewhat attached to it, but. I have question. You may have been asked this before when you got out and then you said nine 11 happened, did it made you think about maybe going back in or No, Mike: 100%. Mike: Yeah, so it was August of 2001. I got off active duty and then nine 11 happened. Oh, wow. Quick. It was literally there. Yeah. Jamie: My, if he hadn't gotten off, then yeah, then we proba. I mean, he would've been stopped gapped probably he wouldn't have even been able to leave after that. And so like the whole. Course of our lives would've [00:08:00] changed because yeah, by the time he would've been able to think about getting out, then we would've been so far into it. Jamie: It would've been like, well, we should just Right. You know, get the 20 years act, a hundred percent Mike: finish. You know, one month later we would've spent the rest of my life in, in the Marine Corps. Yeah. But as fate would have it, it didn't happen like that. Answer your question. So fast forward to 2004. Mike: Countries at war and, you know, we hadn't discussed this. I'm like, well, I really feel like I need to make a contribution. So at that point in time, were you doing reserves at that point or, no, I wasn't. I was in active ready reserve. Okay. Still had a commission. Um, and then, uh, through my, you know, basically got, got back in as a reservist and then spent, uh. Mike: Loved it by the way. It was fantastic. Um, you know, loved the Marine Corps, love our nation. Mm-Hmm. Love the young Marines that serve. And, uh, our daughter's trained to be a marine officer candidate approved. Oh, cool. Nice. Um, it just seemed like the right thing to do. Okay. Mm-Hmm. And so I got back in the reserves and, uh, would've bet a paycheck when I was, uh, when I was an an active duty marine. Mike: Working up at Purdue. Um, uh, the reserves were not the same back then. Post nine 11 they became [00:09:00] operational. Um, so I'd never thought I would join the reserves. I did, and I loved it. It was fantastic. And then from 2000, for those of us non-military, what does that Vince: mean exactly? When you said they, they became Mike: operational. Mike: Yeah. So, uh, great question. So when they're, um, pre nine 11, um, they weren't. The reserves weren't deploying in support of combat operations. Okay. They were doing their two weeks, uh, a week. Two weeks a year. Mm-Hmm. One week at a month. And that was their thing. Yep. Post nine 11, they were operational reserves were getting deployed. Mike: In fact, I was a company commander up in South Bend. Okay. I had marines that deployed, um, three, four times Iraq and Afghanistan. So it was back to back to back to back. Gotcha. So those, those guys. So in terms of, you know, proficiency, technical proficiency reserves are probably, 'cause you're not doing it every day, right? Mike: You're not as proficient as an active duty marine that went by the wayside post nine 11 because they were operational. Mm-Hmm. So, so yeah. Long story short, 2004 we decided to get back in and, um, 20 years later, 20 years in the reserve. So 25 approximately years. Okay. Conserving. And it was great. It was great because we could do, plant the seeds here in Indiana and still serve with [00:10:00] pride and do some different things. Mike: So, yeah. Yeah. Um. But then I deployed to Afghanistan in 2011, 2011, 2012. Um, and. You know, at that point in time I was an old guy. Right? So the, the Marine Corps is a very young fighting force. Most of, most of Marines, I think 70% are first Termers. So, you know, four years are in. So, yep. At that point in time, I think I was 38, 39 when I deployed. Mike: I was an old guy. I mean, the average age of a marine is 20, 21 years old, so I'm twice as old. I still felt young, but I wasn't young. I was a young guy. Um, and uh, you know, as you become older, you become hopefully wiser. Uh, war is not glorious. War is not good. And my goal was to go accomplish the mission and bring everyone back safely. Mike: Yeah, so we were in combat operations, although we didn't see combat, so the Marines were disappointed. You know, they all wanna get a combat action ribbon. They're yielding, they're ready for a good fight. And, uh, it didn't happen and I was grateful. Right? So we had a mission to go build patrol bases and, um, no significant [00:11:00] action. Mike: They were disappointed. I was delighted. 'cause we brought back 150 Marines with 10 fingers, 10 toes. Right. Didn't have to write any letters to moms or wives or, Mm-Hmm. So we, it was a blessing. Yeah. So we got back in 2012 and, and you kinda re assimilate back into, uh, into civilian life. Now here's an interesting story. Mike: Um, had that time, my dad got diagnosed with cancer, so I actually, he had got diagnosed, um, with prostate cancer before I left and he was terminal. Um, so Okay. Kind of said goodbye to him before I left. Um, is that kinda how it Jamie: He was, I mean, they didn't, he was ill but not Yeah, that's right. Not, yeah. Quote unquote dying. Jamie: Yeah. Mike: Correct. Correct. He, he, thank you. He, uh, he had been diagnosed, went to Afghanistan, and then, um, you know, the Red Cross, uh, helps. Um, in instances like this where, um, they sent a Red Cross signal that my dad was, Jamie had found out that he was [00:12:00] deemed to be terminal at that point in time. Mm-Hmm. Um, and so they, you know, they asked for you to come back and as a commander, right, I was a company commander. Mike: You don't wanna leave your troops in battle, right. They're there. Um, so there was definitely a, a moral dilemma that I had, but ultimately I had a great team and, um, felt like it was the right thing to do to come back. And it was really, it was really strange because you go from being in a. My dad was at Florida. Mike: Florida at the time. My little sister was, was down in Florida and went from being, um, in a combat zone. Not in combat. There's different things, right? A combat zone where you're on your guard all the time. Right. Even, even at Camp Leatherneck because, um, you know, camp Leatherneck was filled with civilians and you never know who the good guys are, the bad guys. Mike: That's, that's the reality of what it was. So you're always on your guard. And then you come back and Jamie and the kids were down in, in Florida. My little sister was down in Florida. She flew in. It was just, it was, Jamie: it was weird. It was weird. It was weird. I mean, it was weird. 'cause he had been gone and then, I mean, I literally had to call the Red Cross and be like, Hey, I need you to get ahold of my [00:13:00] husband. Jamie: Mm-Hmm. And, um, I mean, I think that was a Wednesday and we met him in Florida on a Friday. Yeah. Wow. You know, to go see his dad. Wow. Hadn't seen him. The kids were. Six and three mm-Hmm. And so there, all of a sudden, here we are picking him up at the airport thinking we weren't supposed to see him until like February or March. Jamie: Mm-Hmm. Um, and this is October. And, and you, Mike: you feel like, you know, I felt like I was cheating. 'cause all my Marines are there. They can't see their families. And I'm going home to see, my family said it was October. It was, it was Halloween. Mm-Hmm. And, uh, I just remember, you know, being in the combat zone one day and the next day. Mike: We're in this area in Florida and it just didn't feel safe. I just didn't feel safe there. We were Jamie: at a trunk or treat, trunk or treat, and they were, we were all on, like on the street and all these people had backed up and there was still traffic on the street and there were kids and, and he was just. Jamie: You know, he's like, I, we gotta get outta here. We gotta go. We gotta get outta here. Yeah. And you know, and his, I think you, when you've been around that lifestyle for a while and you've gone through [00:14:00] all the briefings, and I was fortunate because at that time I was actually working in veteran services, so I was getting to work with veterans every day. Jamie: Mm-Hmm. And he's like, we gotta, we gotta get outta here. And I was like, okay, you're right. Let's go. It's fine. And so, you know, we, uh, the kids got plenty of candy that we're fine. They, they didn't miss out on their track and tree. They did not miss out at all. So, um, but yeah, it was just, it was a weird thing, um, for him to come back and literally have to get his dad, his dad's affairs in order. Jamie: I did, I did for a week and then we dropped him back off at the airport. So he, and he flew back to Afghanistan. Mike: Older brother and a younger sister. God bless 'em both, but I was a run, taking care of everything. Right, right. Yeah. So come back from that and making sure all, and you know, my dad, uh, my mom had passed away, so my dad had been remarried since, so I had to Okay. Mike: Like, make everything fit and everyone's different emotions with that. It was, it was complicated. Right. It was a, it was a challenge. And then to go, you know, say goodbye to him. Go back, uh, go back to Afghanistan. That was, that was tough. 'cause that was the last time I'd seen him, so, right. Yeah. Mm-Hmm. [00:15:00] How long Vince: were you in Mike: Afghanistan in total? Mike: Seven months activated for a year. So they activated us about three months before. Went to Camp Erne, went to Afghanistan, then came back and was gone from the family for about a year. You know, you guys were at 29 Palms for a while. 29 Palms for while. Yeah. Yeah. Vince: Jimmy, how did that go? My, I don't wanna make an assumption, but, Jamie: um, well, you know, it was, um. Jamie: I think, well, we, you kind of just knew it was gonna happen, right? I mean, by that point it was, it was 10 years, you know? Mm-Hmm. After nine 11 and I mean, it was, I don't wanna say it was time for him to go. Yeah. It was, but it was time for him to go do what he had signed up to do. Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm. Um, and, and he got a great opportunity to lead an amazing company. Jamie: Um. He brought together marines from like seven different states. Mm-Hmm. So, you know, and then they joined an active duty battalion, which was interesting. So they were their reserve unit with all these other active duty marines. And he, I mean, there were guys he'd never met before. And all of a sudden, you [00:16:00] know, you gotta pull it together and. Jamie: So, um, and you, you're Vince: managing both of those Mike: groups coming together. It was, uh, it was, you know, was That's probably a whole separate podcast. Oh yeah, for sure. When you, when you, when you think about, like, you reflect on your professional accomplishments, I mean, by far that is the thing I'm most proud of, is bringing those Marines together from all these different sites that didn't know, getting them ready. Mike: You know, 150 Marines, 13 different sites. Oh, was it eight different states. Um, and forged that into a fighting force and go into Afghanistan. Uh, that, you know, great staff, you know, the best marine man, I love dearly to this day. Manel Gonzalez, you know, he was the guy that kinda helped forge things, but that right there, um, that was kind of the pinnacle, the thing I'm most proud of, of bringing that group together. Mike: Right. Getting 'em into Afghanistan and getting 'em back home safely and accomplishing the mission. Right. Yeah. Jamie: I would say from us being at home, I mean, again, it, it was kind of that same support system that. We are relying on now in a lot of ways. Mm-Hmm. Sure. Mm-Hmm. Um, we were fortunate. I mean, thank God we were in Indiana. Jamie: My [00:17:00] parents were close. Mm-Hmm. My grandmother was taking care of us. Um, you know, we had neighbors who were fighting over who was gonna mow our lawn and Mm-Hmm. The church had set up like a, um, like the meals, they would bring us a meal every Monday that the kid, which was just so, like, I just looked forward to Monday every day, or, you know, it was great. Jamie: And so, um. Yeah. And it was, we actually, because it was so much later in the, in the, the conflict. I mean, we got to be in communication pretty well. Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm. Um, it, it was weird stuff like the fact that it, I think Afghanistan is, well, like eight half hours ahead or something crazy. So like this time just difference if I. Jamie: Didn't get an email to him before I went to bed. He wouldn't have an email to read when he woke up in the morning about that. Like it was those kind of things that were, they Mike: had, um, troops in World War II who like sent a letter and then eight weeks later they get one back from, from their wives. Yeah. Mike: And I'm getting it. If I don't get an email in the morning, I'm disappointed. Absolutely. Jamie: So, I mean, in, in a, it was, it [00:18:00] was a very surreal kind of time and. I mean, even now, like we, 'cause they came back in middle of February, so that memory pops up in my Facebook of like the homecoming mm-Hmm. Uh, festivities and everything. Jamie: And every year I'm like, man, that feels like yesterday and a hundred years ago, all at the same time. So yeah, it's um. Yeah, it's good. But like I said, at the time, I mean, I was working, um, I was working with veterans, I was working with people who were military connected, so had a great, great support system there. Jamie: And, um, and, and everybody came back and every, you know, we had some babies that were born in the company, um, while the guys were gone. But for the most part, um, you know, it was, it was a. A happy return. So, Mike: but, but, but life is short, right? And Absolutely. Um, so you have conversations like we've had since my diagnosis, right? Mike: About, okay, we're gonna go to Afghanistan and there's a decent chance, or not a decent chance, but there's a possibility you're not gonna come back. So you start having these conversations, these [00:19:00] very, um, pragmatic ver but emotional conversations about, all right, here's how I want you to raise my kids. Mike: Here's what I want you to do if I'm not around. So, um, you know, having an appreciation for how. How short life is in knowing that every day is precious. Yeah. Is important and comes into play here as you fight, as you go, you know, fight through cancer too. Right, right. Vince: Yeah. Well, so good segue my, uh, yeah. Vince: What is Mike: your cancer story? Um, well, like I told you, my, my mom, my grandfather both had pancreatic cancer. Yeah. Died at 52, so I'm almost 50 father died, um, when he was 64. So I've always known that I was gonna get cancer. I knew it. I, you know, so when it happened, I was surprised that it came that early. Mike: Mm-Hmm. I'm like, you know, I always used to say, kind of in a joking manner, anything past 52 is like I see on the cake. Um, and I definitely wanna live past 52 and I'm gonna, uh, but I knew it was gonna come. Right. Um, but I think you talked [00:20:00] about some of the, the priorities of your organization, just being aware. Mike: Right. Um, uh, and. I was at a higher risk level, so, uh, for a host of reasons, one, because of my, um, my family history and certainly my genetic mismatch and my, my genetic deficiencies that I've got. Uh, but also being in a combat zone and knowing this and knowing that I had friends, um, really good friends that had some GI cancer, right? Mike: And so, a smarter man than me, a more wise person than I would've, would've been, um. Taking more proactive measures and I wasn't so, um, or Jamie: one that was listening to his wife about getting his colonoscopy. Yeah, Mike: yeah, yeah, yeah. So you, you know, maybe a little bit of ignorance and arrogance mix, which is a dangerous mix. Mike: Right. Um, so what I should have been doing, um, was getting a colonoscopy at age 45 because, uh, you know that for a lot of reasons, you're getting that diagnosis a lot earlier than you did in the past. I was at a higher risk level. Um, and we know, um, Jamie FTA today about the number of veterans, um, that are, we know what did it, was it a hundred times more likely to, to die from cancer than they [00:21:00] are to die in combat? Mike: Mm-Hmm. So, yeah. Okay. I should have known. Okay. That might be a separate episode itself. Yeah. I should have, I should have known this was coming. Well, I did know it was coming, but I, you just get so busy in life and all the things that you're doing, raising kids and. Jamie: I think sometimes men too. Yeah. And, and not to be sexist, but you. Jamie: Right. You know, I mean, when I turned 45, my doctor was like, Hey. It's time to go get your colonoscopy. Yeah. And you know, he was 48, 4. No, well you were 49 when you were diagnosed. Yeah. I mean, and I kept saying you, I mean, come on, I have to go get a colonoscopy and you don't like, I feel like you probably should get this done. Jamie: Yeah. Um, and I think that sometimes that's for when you turn 45. Right. When you turn 45. Yeah. Happy birthday. So you're Vince: like, happy birthday, 10 more years to go. Something like Mike: that. Yeah. Yeah. Jamie: Right. Yeah. And, and so I think that, you know, part of. If we can inspire one to 10, a hundred people Mm-hmm. To be like, oh yeah, okay. Jamie: I don't wanna get a, nobody wants to go get their colonoscopy, right? Mm-Hmm. Go get it. Because, you know, it used to be 50 and now it's [00:22:00] 45. Yeah. And that's because, um, you know, there is a younger onset, especially of colon cancer that they're seeing right now. Right. The doctors can't really explain. Right. Um, and so. Jamie: That you know, it, it's one of those cancers that you can stop its progression. Because if they go in and they find something they can remove, right. It's not, then it's not cancer. But if you wait, so for the Mike: youngsters here Mm-Hmm. Yeah. Vince: Who haven't had the experience yet. Right. I'm telling you right now, as much as you probably don't want to, it's not a big deal. Vince: It's not a big deal. Yeah. Yeah. The prep's not fun. The fun is whatever, but that's, yeah. The procedure itself, well, our, our Daniel: last guest is like our last guest. Their Mm-Hmm. Their foundation is all about, you know. Checking. Like getting, getting your colonoscopy Yeah. And checking early. Yeah. And, uh, I mean, check it for Andretti. Daniel: Yeah. Check it for Andretti. Jared's what? I mean, he's the same age as me, right. 33, some pretty close. Yeah. Right around there. Yeah. So I know he's, he, he's got his done, so, yeah. Mm-Hmm. Yeah. Um, there's no reason not to, and that's me talking to myself too, so. Mike: Well, and there I was. Right. [00:23:00] There's no reason not to, and it wasn't, uh. Mike: I don't know what it was. Laziness. I have no idea. I have no explanation. Maybe it's too busy. I don't think it was denial though. Okay. I don't, I don't know what it was. So anyways, you know, um, my daughter Kate's graduating and life is busy and we're going a hundred miles an hour like you do in life and, uh, you know, start to see some symptoms. Mike: Um, so, um, ignore the symptoms. Symptoms are gonna go away. They're gonna go away. Not gonna worry about, I can't worry about this right now 'cause I got more important things in my life going on. We got Kate's graduation party. And, uh, maybe then I was in denial because you kind of hope and wish that, you know, um, the symptoms go away. Mike: My God, this is not a big deal. Um, just kind of pushed it off and, um, I. We talked Jamie: about it a little bit, do you mind if I do, will you mind if we talk about what the symptom is? Is that, I mean, I know it's not Yeah, sure. I, me, I mean, because I think one, that's one of the questions that I don't know if people ask you, but they ask me all the time, well, how did he know? Jamie: Mm-Hmm. What did he just, did they just find it during a colonoscopy? Mm-Hmm. And yeah, some people do find it. I mean, Mm-Hmm. And nobody wants to talk about like rectal bleeding. Like that's [00:24:00] not a cool thing to talk about in mixed company, you know? Right. Mm-Hmm. That's right. But I mean, I think it's one of those things that. Jamie: If it happens, you're shocked. Yeah. Yeah. And you're like trying to just, yeah. Yeah. On the one hand you're like, oh my gosh, I'm dying of cancer. And on the other hand, oh, you know what? Maybe I just need to get the alle toilet paper. So, I mean, you know. Yeah, Mike: but it wasn't, you're exactly right. It's good to talk about it. Mike: I wasn't, um, because it's an uncomfortable thing to talk about, but yes, it was there and it wasn't like a little bit, it was a lot. And, uh, I remember talking to you about it, like, uh, you know, there's, there's blood in my stool, you know, and just something I was watching, hoping it goes away. Yeah, yeah. Um, and it wasn't, but again, life was too busy. Mike: I don't know how many weeks went by. Four or five weeks. Too many weeks. Um, too many weeks. And then, uh, you know, I've, I've, I've worked with the va. The va, um, sometimes gets a bad reputation. This, my experience with this VA in Indianapolis has been outstanding. They've been great. They've just. I do everything through them. Mike: Uh, Jamie and the kids go through somewhere else, but they've, they've taken care of me. [00:25:00] Uh, so one day, you know, I'm just like, all right, you know, it happened again. I call up the VA and they're like, Hey, this is a med medical emergency. You should get in. I'm like, oh, I got work to do. I got stuff to do. What? Mike: Don't have time for this, right? So I'm like, all right, I better go in. So I went in and, uh, you know, talked to the doctor and he said, Hey, you know this, don't automatically assume this is cancer. It can be a whole host of things. Mm-Hmm. So we're gonna Mm-hmm. We're gonna, you know, get, schedule a colonoscopy for it. Mike: So that wasn't the next step, right? So my mind was put a little bit at ease. I, I, you know, I knew cancer was a, was a possibility. I think you probably thought. It was a probability. I think maybe that point in time I was in a little bit of denial. Yeah. Um, maybe hopeful that it wasn't that diagnosis. Sure. Mike: So, I dunno how many days went by. Maybe a week later, you know, you do your, um, they did at the va and I, and so at this point in time, I'm thinking to myself, okay, the VA's been great, they've been great. I love a, uh, but this is serious now. Should I be going to IU Health, for example, or somewhere else? And, uh, and then, but at that point in time it was too [00:26:00] late, like we were committed. Mike: And, um, a young, very young doctor was, was doing the procedure with some guidance from a more senior doctor. I said, I felt good about that. So you go under, then you come out and, um, they don't tell you, but you can read it and the nonverbal cues, right? So, uh. Even when you're under, I come out from medication and you're still kind of under the influence, but you sober up really quick. Mike: Right? You come, yeah. It kind of sobers you up and you kind of see it in their eyes and they're like, well, you know, um, I. What did she say? They found a mask. Found a mask. That's what they told me. And I said, well, you know, how does it look? Well, it looks, you know, looks angry, I think is what she said. Mm-Hmm. Mike: And I said, well, is it cancer? She said, well, we can't tell you that. And then, but I could tell by the way she looked at, at me that it was cancer. I mean, she couldn't tell, but I, I knew it. Knew that. Well, you Jamie: started doing this like, well, percentage of like, if you had to put a number Yeah. Probability number. Jamie: What is the probability that Mike: you think is cancer? Yeah. Yeah. So. So, uh, [00:27:00] you know, that was I think July 6th. And then I remember this, 'cause July 10th was my, is my sister's birthday. So they called me on July 10th. And at that point in time I knew, in fact we, um, you know, uh, we start talking about things you can control and having agency and what can you do about it. Mike: So, at that point in time, I kind of knew and, um, we decided we were gonna go out for a cocktail and, uh, and, and, and just think, contemplate life, right? So we went out for a cocktail and knew that was gonna be probably our last for a while. Then they took us, uh, called me on the 10th, uh, on my sister's birthday. Mike: And then, then we kind of found out, and then, you know, you go into limbo, like, okay, what stage are you at? What does it mean? Um, what are the steps, what are the procedures? And then you start kind of assuming, um, you know, worst case scenarios, best case scenarios, trying to figure out where do we go from here? Jamie: Right. Well, and it's a lot of, we kind of always joke that being in. Affiliated with the Marine Corps has in many ways prepared us Sure. For this. I mean, you know, yes, in many ways. Like talking about things that, you know, maybe you don't talk about every day. Mm-Hmm. When you're, when you're preparing for this major [00:28:00] life thing. Jamie: Mm-Hmm. Um, but also just the hurry up and wait. Like that was, we always were talking about that with the military and with this, it's absolutely like, hurry up and wait. I mean, hurry up and get to all these appointments and now you're gonna wait a week before you hear anything. Mm-Hmm. And then you're gonna have to hurry up and do this, and then you're gonna wait another week. Jamie: And so it was just so much like, hurry up and wait, hurry up and wait. Yeah, Mike: but you know what, um, she's been fantastic, right? So, you know, I'm so grateful to be married to this woman, uh, to my right. She's my, uh, life partner and my soulmate. And so she's been my advocate and, um, you know, started to kind of figure out, okay, we have to have some agency. Mike: We've gotta figure out what to do. And we, it wasn't one of the things you wanna publish, right? I didn't. Um, so I think you, you talked about it earlier, uh, about not wanting, feeling sorry for yourself and. Not for a second, maybe for like a half of a heartbeat. I'm like, ah, this sucks. But then you get into, okay, what am I gonna do about this? Mike: Um, and I said to myself, I said, there's no way I'm gonna feel [00:29:00] sorry for myself when all these, I always just think about young kids and that, that diagnosis. And I'm like, I've had a great life. I've had a wonderful life. I've done some cool things and many things that most people haven't done. I've got a wonderful wife. Mike: Children are great, great friends. Life is good, all right. Not that I wanna die, right, but I'm prepared to die. Um, so we were careful about who we told. Told people that were close to us, but, um, there's no Facebook messages going out or anything like that? No. This is probably my coming out party actually. Mike: And, uh, you know, we wanted to tell people that, that we knew loved and, and cared for us. And, um, you know, so there were some, you know, obviously our friends close by who were the same friends that were mowing our lawn when I was deployed. And then, uh, you know, our good friend Kelly, she was one of the people that I was very close with and told her and, and she turned me on to a lot of, lot of things. Mike: Your organization of one. And, um, I think, uh, she turned me onto a podcast from. Lindy Thaxton, who you guys probably know. Mm-Hmm. Yeah. And I remember dropping Kate off in, in, uh, Chicago for her training, her military training and [00:30:00] having to drive up to Michigan, listening to her podcast all the way up there and listening to it all the way down Indianapolis. Mike: And so I completed, I don't know how many she had, all of 'em. And she went through the same thing called colorectal cancer. And, uh. So I'm just kind of preparing myself for the emotional rollercoaster. And that was very, you know, it was tough to listen to. 'cause some of it was, was difficult for her, but it was therapeutic too because you wanna be like, anything you wanna be prepared for, for what's to come. Mike: So I think that was very, very helpful of, of helping me become prepared, right? So, so did that. She turned me on, um, to a book called Radical Remission Radical Hope. And so, um, you know, like you were saying earlier, you don't read in college, but post-College, I love to read, so I'm like, I gotta read this. Mike: Right. Uh, and that was, that was excellent. Um, because it gives you, what you don't wanna do is give up control and you, there's a lot of things that I knew inherently, um, but seeing 'em in a book, it's like, oh yeah, I'm doing this or I'm not doing that. Sure. One of the things that did surprise me was, um, you know, we, we did a, an immediate [00:31:00] stop of, we eat pretty well, I would say, but, uh, we were, you know. Mike: Tried to clean up the diet even more, but when we talked to some of the doctors that we were talking to, it almost seemed like, and, and this may be not, I was surprised by this, it almost seemed like they were dismissive about the diet part of it. I, I was really, really surprised by that. Would you, would you say that or no? Jamie: I, yeah, I mean, I think he, we were looking for guidance that maybe, and, and their guidance was probably more along the lines of what we were already doing. Mm-Hmm. Yeah. Um. You know, I think you, and, and when you do listen to podcast or you read books and you read people who just like really put in some dramatic measures to, to see the results, it's kinda like, well shoot, should we be doing more? Jamie: Mm-Hmm. Like, are we not trying hard enough? Right. Right. Is it okay to have a glass of wine with dinner or, you know, to have some salami on the charcuterie board, or should we just not do that at all? Right. Um, and so it, you know, I would say yes. Right, right. Well, and you know, and I think when we [00:32:00] were talking. Jamie: This was one of the things that kind of sticks with me, but when we were talking to the doctors at the VA and like, well, you know, he, he'd kinda like to talk to a nutritionist and they're like, oh, oh, okay. Well, I mean, normally we don't, you know, you don't fit the parameters of someone we would have talk to a nutritionist. Jamie: And then we were talking a little bit more and she made the comment about how some of the, um, some of the veterans who get care at the va. Have difficulty finding access even to healthy food. Okay, sure. Yeah. Um, because of their, their economic situation, which just made me sad. Like to think about the fact that, you know, there are people who are, who are undergoing cancer that can't even access fresh, fresh food. Jamie: Food, yeah. Um, that could be healthy for them and their treatments. So, um, Mike: so there's a lot of things we could do. Um, so we took control. To the best of our ability. 'cause you, you can't lose the ability to have control and you gotta have control of your medical care too. Um, uh, we, we decided very early on that we were gonna be in charge of my [00:33:00] medical care. Mike: She's a great advocate. Um, and sometimes we're the best and the worst patients because we're informed and intelligent and, uh. Some people don't like that. Or some we would Jamie: kind of warn doctors when they met with us. We're like, listen, we're gonna listen to what you say and follow your direction and also question everything you say. Jamie: So, yeah, just so you know that about us, Mike: we, we gotta make informed decisions. So we did. And um, you know, we were hopeful. I think the initial plan was to go, um. Do, uh, chemo and radiation and, um, as you talked about, I was not at all excited about that, putting that poison in your body, right? Mm-Hmm. Um, potentially avoiding surgery. Mike: Um, so that was, that was the hope. Um, it was stage four, diagnosis three, stage three. And um, so that was a hope. And it was, um, not to get too, uh, we talked about colorectal cancer, but it was actually rectal cancer, right? So it was, and it was, you know, uh, there is potential with surgery to lose. Function. Mike: Function. Yeah. Yeah. And, and you know that amongst many other things, including potentially [00:34:00] for dying, you think about those things. Mm-hmm. Um, and so we were hopeful that we weren't gonna have to do surgery. Um, but unfortunately that wasn't the case. So that was the plan, chemoradiation and surgery. So that was not awesome news, but you press on. Mike: So in parallel, um, I don't know where you want to jump in here. Um, she's excellent research and she was just doing some. Well, Jamie: they were waiting, so they, you know, they do all these testings on the, from the biopsy when the, when they do the biopsy. And so, um, he had a part of the, the sample was, I'm missing the word. Jamie: Um, Mike: I know what Jamie: you're at. I don't know. Yeah. Anyway, it was basically inconclusive. Yes. Okay. Yeah. They were looking specifically for, um. This Mismatch. Mismatch. Mismatch. Repair. Mike: Repair. Deficiency deficiency, Uhhuh, it's a micro satellite Jamie: instability in. Yes. And so we, you know, cancer treatment has protocols and they have a, you know, [00:35:00] they're published protocols and it's literally like a workflow if this, then that and, you know, and, and that whole thing. Jamie: And so. A certain percentage of rectal cancers have this microsatellite instability. And if that's the case, then the treatment path diverges a bit. Okay. Um, because they've found that these particular types of tumors don't respond as well to chemo and radiation, but they actually respond pretty well to immunotherapy. Jamie: Okay. And so that's kind of where the path diverges. Diverges. And so we were waiting. Because we had had these inconclusive results. We were waiting to find out, um, you know, what that looks like. And I was on the internet of course. Shocking, right? Yeah. On the Google. Um, and so I found a clinical trial, a clinical study that was happening at Memorial Memorial Sloan Kettering Hospital in New York City. Jamie: Um, and. I mean, I would like to say that this was such an amazing find that I found, but literally if you [00:36:00] Google rectal cancer clinical study, this is what's gonna come up. Because in the summer of 2022, when they published their first report, um, at that time they had 14. I think 14 patients that had gone through the trial, and then there were four that were still in the middle of, of getting their, their treatments. Jamie: Um, but it is, as far as they know, the first clinical trial where 100% of the participants had a complete clinical response, which means that after they got this treatment, they were in remission, basically the cancer was gone. And so it was, I was like, wow. I think that sounds like something we should, we should pursue. Jamie: Right. Um, and so I honestly had him pre-registered at Memorial Sloan Kettering before we even knew if he qualified for the study. Okay. Um, because it was like, well, you know, I don't wanna waste any time. Like I'm tired of the hurry up and wait. And we were waiting for test results and then they had to have a different, different set of test results because it was inconclusive. Jamie: So they had to do something different. Which is super Mike: frustrating. 'cause like you were talking about earlier, you just wanna [00:37:00] go, you wanna go get down, whatever the direction is, let's go. Whatever it is, let's get on it. And we couldn't. Daniel: Was that, was that an immunotherapy? Mm-Hmm. Clinical as well. Jamie: Mm-Hmm. Jamie: That's right. It's, yes. And so, um, you know, Mike, Mike said questioning, advocating, taking care. I think that's a big takeaway for us is, is just, um, you know, when I. When I talked to an intake nurse Mm-Hmm. Even actually from, from the hospital, um, she's like, well, from from MSK. Yeah. From MSKI, you know, we're not, not sure. Jamie: It doesn't look like, um, you know, this is, it's, it's inconclusive. And I said, well, I, I get that. Um, Mike: they told her no. They told her I didn't qualify. I said, Jamie: can you ask again? Is there someone else you can ask? And she says, well, you know what, let me, let me get one of the research nurses down here. And I mean, I heard back from one of the research nurses that day. Jamie: Oh, okay. And she's like, you know what? We're, send him, bring him out here and [00:38:00] we will do our own tests. They have their own kind of genetic testing that Sure. You know, I mean. Most times you're spending, you're sending these samples off to some lab and it's, you know, waiting in line and, and then it, you get it weeks. Jamie: And I mean, they were, I was gonna ask, Vince: I said, this might a dumb question, but when, when you hear inconclusive, then my reaction that would be like, okay, well let's test again. Mm-Hmm. Do you need another sample? Jamie: Which is what they did. So they were doing, they had done kind of a basic test and then because it had come back inconclusive, they were doing what's called a foundation test, um, okay. Jamie: At the va. So we were waiting for that. Waiting for that to happen. Sure. Um, and so in the meantime, Memorial Sun Kettering was like, just come out and we'll just do, we'll just test him here. Mm-Hmm. And if he, if he qualifies. So it, you know, they, they did all of their own kind of in-house testing and they were able to run the sample and they were like, yeah, he qualifies. Jamie: So how Vince: quick were you guys in New York? Mike: Uh, right away the next day. So, I mean, was that Jenna that you talked to? Mm-Hmm. Yeah, Jenna's been awesome. She's the, the research nurse. So, you know, they, they flew me out. Um. [00:39:00] Said, let's go. And I'm like, let's, let's give it a try. And so when you, uh, win the lottery in cancer, you're like, oh, this sucks. Mike: Um, but like Jamie said, I mean, I think there's 45,000 people a year that get diagnosed with colorectal cancer, and about five to 10% of them have this repair deficiency, this mismatched mis efficiency. Efficiency. And so you're kind of like, you don't wanna get your hope up, right? Right. Because the, the other path was. Mike: Chemo radiation and surgery, and I'm preparing for the worst. I'm like, I'm not gonna qualify for this. Um, but, but you, you wanna get your hope up. So, Mm-Hmm. Um, but then went out there, tested and then, you know, you win the lottery and fricking getting cancer and then won the lottery and getting this treatment by, you know, talk about favorite sports teams, right? Mike: Like this, is it like Memorial Sloan Kettering? Is the, A team is the, the best in this country, number one and number two in cancer research. And I'm like, holy cow. This is, this is the A team, this is the, the, the Yankees, the Michigan football, [00:40:00] right? Oh, there we go of cancer research, I guess. And uh, and uh, it, the, it was, um, in a lot of these steps, um, a lot of these things were going on. Mike: Um, God was at play. Uh, there was a lot going on in our lives at the time and, uh, when, when I got this diagnosis, I'm like, man, I don't know how much more I can handle. Right? This is too much. I don't know that I can, I can handle this. Yeah. And uh, you know, I do think, um, 'cause one of the things you wanna do is increase your faith and be positive. Mike: And I do think that almost getting this diagnosis, um, was, this is gonna sound weird, is what's been good for me spiritually and mentally. Right. For whatever reason. Yeah. So anyways, we won lottery and, and getting, getting, um, having this deficiency that qualified for me for the study. Went back to the va and uh, the VA was great. Mike: We liked the oncologist a lot. She was excited for the prospect of, um, you know, doing, getting the [00:41:00] treatment right off study. Um. Which we had the option to do. And we, we had a conversation outside the VA about, you know, trusting your gut, having some intuition, trusting your intuition, what should we do? Um, and I think we really felt like, um, being part of this study, patient number 44, once they get to 50 FDA approved, you can get it. Mike: But right now, once it's FDA approved insurance companies will make it more likely that you can get it as a treatment. Okay. Right. So we, we thought we had a bit of a responsibility to be part of the study. Um. So, Jamie: I mean his, his participation in it helps make it more available hopefully in the future to more people. Jamie: Mm-Hmm. Right. So, Mike: yeah, Vince: that, I'm gonna touch on that real quick. So I don't want this to sound weird, but like, when you were making that decision, Hey, do we go into this clinical trial or not? Were you looking at it as, do it because I'm looking for hopefully a silver bullet for me or. I don't know what it's gonna bring, but if [00:42:00] it helps someone down the road, then all the better. Vince: Or is it c Mike: All the above. It was, it was both. I think there was, we had so much confidence in it. They've had a hundred percent, um, a hundred, a hundred percent clinical response. Response, right. Is the word I'm looking for. And you didn't wanna win that lottery to be. The first that, well, Jamie: I told him, I'm like, he likes to do things his own way. Jamie: He's just kind of that guy. I was like, listen, for this one, you just step in line and you follow what everybody else is doing. There's no deviation here. We want this to look Exactly. Yeah. Like everyone else, there was, Mike: there was a good enough higher probability success to where I felt like it was a silver bullet for us. Mike: Sure. But we could also help, um, we could have done it through the VA would've been a lot, it would've been way more convenient. I've got a, not that it's inconvenient to fly to, I fly to New York City once every three weeks. Um. And they, they, they pay for everything. They take care of that. Oh, sweet. So that's, that's nice. Mike: Awesome. Yeah. Um, they pay for the travel and Jamie: the study Mike: stuff. Yeah, yeah. But it's a minor, it's a minor inconvenience to make sure that we can help complete the research. Um, yeah. So, uh, the team's been great. Uh, Andrea Ick, I think is the head oncologist. She's [00:43:00] wonderful and just a great, you know, I got that, you know, the, a team of, of professionals on cancer research on this particular, and they've had a hundred percent response. Mike: So I'm at, um, so I've been going there since August. I. Late August, um, once every three weeks ago. And, and it's crazy. Um, it's an amino therapy, a monoclonal, um, antibody. Antibody. Thank you. Yep. I staab is, is what? It's just Starla Staab. Um, and I go in, get it through my veins. I keep working. It doesn't have any impact on me at all either. Mike: Good nor bad. Wow. Like, I feel exactly the same. Wow. That's, it's amazing. And so when you prepare for. This diagnosis, you're gonna get chemo and radiation and surgery. Those are all significant impacts to your life. I almost feel like I'm cheating. I've got a really good friend who's got prostate cancer right now, and he's going through chemo and it's not, it's not good. Mike: Yeah. I don't have that same experience. Right. I almost feel like I'm, I'm cheating now. Recently, uh, last three or four weeks, I've had a little bit of a, of a, of a [00:44:00] reaction. Um, a minor irritant rash, but in the big scheme of things, this is a side effect, right. It's. Been wonderful. Yeah. Question, Vince: the folks who have already gone through this trial, um, did they just have this immunotherapy treatment and that's it? Vince: Or did they have any follow up surgery Mike: or, Jamie: right. Yeah, that's a good question. So part of what's kind of different about this particular treatment is that that clinical, you know, leaders and the participants are willing to only get the immunotherapy and then see what happens. Okay. And so, you know. In a regular course with a different kind of cancer. Jamie: It might be chemo and radiation, and then surgery. That's what we do, right? Mm-Hmm. Um, and in this case it's immunotherapy and if it works hands off, we wait and see. And so he, part of the, the study is that he'll go back every four months, um, for the next five years and they'll, you know, just do all the threats, keep an eye and make sure. Jamie: Right. Exactly. Yeah. Vince: Um, how far out are the, the first couple of, [00:45:00] uh, patients in this? How far out are they? Jamie: I'm not sure when it kicked off, but I know that, I mean, I think patient number one, by the time they released the results in 2022, I mean, she had been a year plus maybe more. Mike: Oh, so by Vince: now they're pushing five, that five year mark? Jamie: Yeah. Okay. So, um, I mean, it, it's been an ongoing thing I think. They're hoping that after they kind of look at this with, because this is just rectal cancer right now. Sure. Um, but there are other solid tumors that have this mismatch repair deficiency. Right. And so I think their next step will be. Looking at, you know, is the scope. Jamie: Yeah. Is this an option for other types? Right. Um, 'cause I think what happens a lot of times is, you know, people go through the course, chemo, radiation, surgery, sometimes even chemo again after that. Um, and then if it's not working, then it, the immunotherapy is something that they're trying with later stage cancer patients. Jamie: Right. Mm-Hmm. Um, and the thing about this particular study and, and kind of what makes it different is the researchers wanted to look at, um. [00:46:00] Advanced localized cases. So like stage three where it hasn't metastasized, metastasized, it's still contained, it's advanced, but it's not spread yet. Mm-Hmm. And so a lot of times I think the immunotherapy is happening later on. Jamie: Um, so they're really looking at the effectiveness of being able to. Um, using it earlier. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They call it, it checks the, the checkpoints basically. Um, it's a checkpoint inhibitor. Um, okay. And I Mike: think that's how they got here, right? So the immunotherapy was like the last, right. It was chemo, radiation, surgery. Mike: Last straw was immunotherapy and it proved to be the most effective. Right? So they were doing last thing in that protocol at the last step. And, um. That was, I think the thesis behind this, this study was to flip that on its head. Yeah, yeah. Start that first. Jamie: So, I mean, he has had his last treatment, um, on Valentine's Day was his last treatment. Jamie: Yeah. That's awesome. Nice. And so, um, we go back not next week, but the week after, to do all of the, the tests, um, the PET scan and MRI and [00:47:00] biopsy just to see. If it worked after Mike: it's gonna work, um, a high degree of confidence that, uh, you know, in two weeks time they're gonna call it a complete, why do I keep forgetting that word? Mike: Clinical response. Clinical response. Complete response. Yeah. After my first treatment, after the first one, the blood of my stool stopped. Jenna called me up, like, yeah. And it was crazy 'cause I was there for the second time, for the second treatment and she said, um, you know, do you still see blood? And I'm like, I had noticed it, but it hadn't registered. Mike: I'm like, no. She's like, oh, it's working. It worked. Jamie: After the very first treat, even just the pictures between like treatment two and three, like it was crazy. I mean, like, like they said, it was an angry, angry looking thing. Um, and it. I mean, it was, it was amazing. So you've seen steps Mike: along the way? Yeah, a hundred percent. Mike: It shows that you responding at, at the third treatment I did a PET scan, an MRI, mm-Hmm. And it was, I think, uh, 25% of the baseline original baseline. So it had already shrunk 75%. Wow. So, damn. Yeah, it's [00:48:00] incredible. I mean, there's some, there's some videos I wish I would've sent 'em to you guys before. Um, the had oncologist I had, um, doctor was on CNN and some really good videos and she was basically describing how it works and she's like, this is amazing. Mike: It's even better than we had hoped or anticipated. The tumors are literally just vanishing. And so that's what's happening in my body. So the way it works is you're gonna have to help me out here. Um, so with this mismatch repair deficiency, um, basically my immune system does not detect the cancer. Okay? Mike: And so what the immunotherapy does is it allows the cancers almost get like a force field around it. It takes down that force field and allows the, my immune system to attack, right, to attack the cancer. So. Treatment, the drug treatment I'm taking is not treating the cancer, it's treating my immune system is actually your Exactly. Mike: Yeah. It's amazing. And, uh, wow, man. Talk about thank God for smart people. Vince: Yeah. Mike: That's awesome. Daniel: Yeah. That's crazy. I mean, that's, that's really cool to see that something like [00:49:00] that work and that, you know, Mike: period. So we were delighted when Kelly suggested, uh, asked me if I would wanna be here and I said, um, well, I'm not really a podcast guy, but, uh, yeah. Mike: I don't know that I have a story to tell, but, um, sure. You, you know, it is, you know, I think it's colorectal Cancer Awareness Month and, you know, to be here with you guys this, you know, anticipating that we're gonna be cancer free and just, um, you know, like Jamie said, um, creating awareness. I think that's one of your pillars, right? Mike: Just early detection and getting things done. And she's right. I mean, um, you Vince: know, especially do what we can to prevent, to the extent that we can. Yeah. I mean, sometimes we win the lottery. Yeah. Like it or not. That's right. And then the other one be research, I mean, yeah. Look how, look, 20 years ago, this clinical trial certainly didn't help, no. Vince: Five years ago. Yeah. This didn't, didn't exist. Yeah. Um, you know, and the immunotherapy options wouldn't be here. What if it wasn't for the research? So, Mike: yeah. Yeah. And it's been, it's been amazing. And, and like Jamie said, um, being able to talk to the people that we know and care and love about [00:50:00] love on, um, I, I, many of, many of my veteran friends, like Mike, I got a colonoscopy just because of you. Mike: Right. So we're having an effect. Right? Yeah. Right. Yep. Jamie: Well, I think that, and I mean talking about veterans and the, just the incidences of cancer, um, I mean, I think there were, I've been almost four, 500,000 veterans, former service members, um, who have been diagnosed with cancer in the last two decades. Um, and so I. Jamie: There was important legislation that was passed in 2022. Um Mm-Hmm. Which is the PACT Act. And so what that did is it greatly expanded the VA's definition of a presumptive condition. Um, and so basically what that means is if somebody who is in service in certain locations during certain time periods and you know, might have been exposed to Agent Orange or might have been exposed to a burn pit, or might have been exposed to. Jamie: A uranium mine or whatever it might be, [00:51:00] um, that, you know, if they were in those locations and they come, come upon in their, their health journey. Um, one of these types of, of diagnoses, uh, the VA presumes mm-hmm. That it contributed, that that service contributed to that cancer diagnosis. And then that opens up a whole new arena of healthcare because a lot of those people, you know, you, unless you have a service connected disability or you retire from the military, you know, VA is only your option for so long. Jamie: Mm-Hmm. Um, but what this does is it provides an an avenue for healthcare. For these veterans who have been diagnosed with these conditions, um, who maybe wouldn't have qualified for VA care before. So, yeah. Um, you know, some of it is just when we're kind of thinking what, you know, what do we do with this? I mean, you know, we can, we can just go on and, and live our life where we can figure out what our message is. Jamie: Um, and I think that part of that is just, I mean, we have so many personal friends who are suffering from. [00:52:00] Cancers that are veterans and you know, I, I think that we all know and love many veterans in our lives and so part of it is just encouraging them to, you know, get those checkups and, and, you know, track down to any symptoms that they think are, are out of the normal. Jamie: Right. So, Vince: yeah. Well, thank you for sharing. Yeah. We appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah. I'm glad things are, are are going well? Yeah. Keep us posted. Mm-Hmm. Um, you know, if we want, if you have, if obviously it's up to you guys, if, if you have photos, like a photo of peers before, and heres after. I think that even just to an untrained eye, I've seen this in a couple of things. Vince: Like we had, I think that same actual research project we were talking about earlier. Um, he actually had a, a little video from the microscope that showed. Uh, these agents attacking the cancer cell. And I'm like, I, I don't, I've never, I don't know what I'm looking at. Right. But he, he's like, here, just this, that's the cancer cell and these things are coming into attack it. Vince: And like literally you [00:53:00] watch it and all of a sudden, like the cancer cell just like is just destroyed. Yeah. It's like. Holy crap. That's Mike: powerful. What do I sign? You know, like, what do you need Seeing is believing. Yeah, for sure. Mm-Hmm. Vince: So if, if you guys have some of those and you're willing to show that, that to do some sort of side by side before and after, that'd be really cool to Yeah. Vince: Put into the, into the episode. A hundred Mike: percent. We can do that for you. Okay. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Like I said, Vince: thank you for coming in. Thank you for sharing your story. Thanks for your time. Yeah, Mike: thank you for, appreciate it. Thank you guys. Really appreciate, uh, the opportunity and, uh, great work that you guys do. Mike: So keep it up. Well, thank you. Let us know how else we can help. Okay? We will. Vince: All right. And thank all you guys for joining us on this episode of The Summits podcast. All you vets out there, thank you for your service and get checked. Mm-Hmm. Know your body. Alright guys, again, thank you for joining us. We appreciate it. Vince: And don't forget Beat [00:54:00] Cancer.