Poetry for All Transcript for Episode 4: William Shakespeare, ÒSonnet 18Ó Abram: Hello, IÕm Abram Van Engen, an English professor at Washington University in St. Louis. Joanne: And IÕm Joanne Diaz, poet and English professor at Illinois Wesleyan University. Abram: And this is Poetry For All. Joanne: This podcast is for those who already love poetry and for those who know very little about it. Abram: In this podcast weÕll read a poem, discuss it, learn from it, and then read it one more time. Joanne: And today, we thought weÕd talk about the sonnet, which is certainly the most resilient form in English poetry. Abram, what sonnet are we starting with? Abram: One that is definitely worth getting to know better: ShakespeareÕs Sonnet 18. Joanne: Very good, shall I read this poem? Abram: Please do. Joanne: Okay, this is Sonnet 18 by William Shakespeare. Shall I compare thee to a summerÕs day? Thou art more lovely and more temperate: Rough winds do shake the darling buds of May, And summerÕs lease hath all too short a date; Sometime too hot the eye of heaven shines, And often is his gold complexion dimm'd; And every fair from fair sometime declines, By chance or natureÕs changing course untrimm'd; But thy eternal summer shall not fade, Nor lose possession of that fair thou owÕst; Nor shall death brag thou wanderÕst in his shade, When in eternal lines to time thou growÕst: So long as men can breathe or eyes can see, So long lives this, and this gives life to thee. Abram: ThatÕs great, thank you. Alright, weÕre talking about form and structure today, so I wanted to start with the form of a sonnet, just so weÕre on the same page. So basically, a sonnet is fourteen lines usually broken into quatrains, thatÕs four lines, each with a certain kind of rhyme scheme, usually ABAB CDCD as we have here. And almost always in a sonnet youÕre dealing with iambic pentameter, so an iamb is da-dum, pentameter means five of them, so da-dum da-dum da-dum da-dum da-dum, da-dum da-dum da-dum da-dum da-dum. And almost always in a sonnet youÕve got a turn somewhere, usually at the ninth line, sometimes in ShakespeareÕs sonnets at the thirteenth line, the final couplet, but usually you have a turn in there. So thatÕs the basic sort of textbook definition of a sonnet, but really thereÕs so much more going on when you get into the machinery of a sonnet and how poets play with the sonnet form. And one way to think about a sonnet is through form and another way is through structure. So when I ask you to talk about the structure of this sonnet, what do you notice, Joanne? Joanne: Anytime I read a sonnet and actually any poem, I always put a box, just with a pencil or a pen, around the sentences. Because too often we read for the line and weÕre so concerned with the poetic line that we forget that these are sentences that actually make sense. So this is a poem with three sentences, thatÕs it. The first line is the first sentence. itÕs a question, so not only do I look at the sentences, I try to figure out what kind of sentences they are. So, already my mind is sort of moving, right? Why would this poem have the opening sentence be a question? What is it asking? What is it concerned with? The second sentence is a big one. ItÕs eleven lines long. And now IÕm thinking well why does it have to be so long? And what happens in that sentence? Well, itÕs basically the poetic speaker is describing all the ways in which summer, which is seemingly perfect, is not perfect at all compared to the beauty of this young man. And then the final sentence is only two lines long and thatÕs where the volta appears in a Shakespearean sonnet. And that one takes the shape of an if/then kind of logic, so a lot of ShakespeareÕs poems have a kind of logical proof in that final couplet and this is one of them. And so we have to figure out, in order to understand the poem, what work do we do in the first two sentences so that by the time we get to the third sentence we understand what the logic of the poem is.Ê Abram: ThatÕs great, so one way to think about it is we donÕt know the power of that last sentence until we understand the first two sentences. And as you say, the first sentence is actually very short, itÕs just one line, itÕs just a question. And the second sentence is doing the bulk of the work of this poem. So letÕs try to walk through this and think about what the sort of narrative situation is of the poet as we walk through these sentences. What do you see happening in that first question, what are the possible ways of reading this as a question? Joanne: Well itÕs a great first question. ÒShall I compare thee to a summerÕs day?Ó First of all, it begins with the word Òshall.Ó ÒShall I compare thee.Ó So itÕs already setting up a relationship between the ÒIÓ and the Òyou,Ó ÒShall I compare thee.Ó But itÕs also setting up a literary problem, which is Òam I gonna be the one who compares you to a summerÕs day?Ó Especially when so many other people in my culture have used this as a commonplace piece of wisdom in there poems and plays? So when Shakespeare is writing this, probably in the early 1600s, published in 1609, many of his fellow poets and playwrights have already used the proverbial wisdom of ÒsummerÕs dayÓ as a kind of perfection. So heÕs entering the stage, if you imagine this as a dramatic speaker, heÕs walking onto the stage and saying Òam I going to do this same thing that every other guy has done in my culture?Ó Abram: ThatÕs amazing, I love that because in the first sentence, heÕs almost bored.Ê Joanne: Yeah.Ê Abram: ItÕs a sonnet that begins with a sort of Òugh really, weÕre really gonna go through with this? Alright fine, letÕs do this, letÕs compare you to a summerÕs day, here we go.Ó But then the second sentence has this incredible transformation that happens. So at first we begin with the comparison, he goes through with it. He says, ÒWell, look. HereÕs the problem with summer: sometimes the sun is too hot, sometimes the clouds come, sometimes the breeze is a little too strong, thereÕs all these problems with summer, youÕre way better than that. But by the end of the sentence, the real problem with summer comes out, and that is that summer ends. Summer fades away. And by the end of that sentence, that very long sentence, weÕre no longer talking about beauty per se, weÕre no longer talking about how the beloved is so much better than a summerÕs day. What weÕre really talking about is the problem with death: what is going to happen? How do we prevent death and time from taking over us? And the word ÒuntrimmedÓ there basically means to take apart, to take all the clothing and ornament off. So basically time just sort of takes us apart and this becomes the real problem and force of the poem: how do we escape time itself and how do we escape death itself? And so the poem becomes this very serious thing. So then we get to the third sentence, what do you see happening in the third sentence? Joanne: Well this is really remarkable because you know I mentioned earlier how, when I look at the first sentence, I like to look at ShakespeareÕs speaker as like an actor walking onto the stage asking this question. And then he gets very theatrical at the end as well, but also very philosophical. It says, ÒSo long as men can breathe or eyes can see.Ó So basically itÕs saying Òas long as humans are alive on Earth and are capable of seeing things, so long as men can breathe or eyes can seeÑI feel pretty confident thatÕs gonna be for a whileÑ"So long lives this. And this gives life to the. The ÒthisÓ is the poem. You know, Shakespeare does this in many of his plays where the words themselves give you the stage direction because he wasnÕt a huge stage direction guy. But by him saying this, itÕs like heÕs holding the paper in his hand, heÕs saying Òso long lives this. And this gives life to thee.Ó If you actually think about the performative element of this sonnet, youÕre like Òokay, youÕre gonna give me a piece of paper and IÕm gonna live forever.Ó Abram: Right, right. Just right after he says ÒWhen in eternal lines to time thou growÕst,Ó these lines that IÕm writing are gonna give you eternity. HeÕs looking at it and saying Òwell actually itÕs just kinda written on a piece of paper and actually if the wind picks up the paper might blow out the window, or who knows, the house might burn down tonight and there it goes, there goes your eternity.Ó And so thereÕs this sort of Òah-hahÓ moment there where heÕs like, Òactually itÕs just a piece of paper, but you know, the reader is gonna give life to you by constantly reading it so long as it kinda-sorta survives.Ó So thereÕs this incredible conditional attached to the promise of permanence there. Joanne: On the one hand, it seems so confident and so audacious that poetry can do this. On the other hand, it really makes me think about how fragile the writing is and also how fragile desire is. Miraculously, we are able to read these lines over four hundred years later and are able to enjoy them and in that way the poet is reaching out to us with this little piece of paper. But I think that fragility is one of the primary takeaways for me of this poem as a result of that final sentence.Ê Abram: And it draws my attention to exactly where the turns are happening in this poem. So a sonnet typically has one turn and here we get that turn, right? So we have this twelfth line, ÒWhen in eternal lines to time thou growÕst,Ó thatÕs a grafting image, so basically IÕm going to bind you to time so that you grow into it and become one with it, so that you live forever. And in a way, the sonnet, if it didnÕt have to be fourteen lines, the twelve lines is a perfect little poem. The twelfth line is a perfect little landing spot. And usually the last couplet, the thirteenth and fourteenth line are supposed to be our landing spot. But here weÕve already landed. And the thirteenth and fourteenth line actually unland us, they actually make more precarious what has been promised as permanence in line twelve. But that takes us back up the poem a little bit, to this realization that thereÕs already been a turn in the poem. So if the first eight lines are the problem of summer and the real problem of summer is that it fades away, the ninth, ÒBut thy eternal summer shall not fade,Ó whenever you see that Òbut,Ó you know youÕve sort of landed on a turn in a poem. WeÕve got a turn, hereÕs the turn. But your summer is never going to fade away. And how is that going to happen? By the twelfth line we have the answer. And then we turn again. So this is a sonnet really with two turns in it and one way to think about sonnets is they kind of constantly strain against the very sonnet form that theyÕve been given. So all the breaks with form, all the ways of messing with form are a lot of the ways in which sonnets become super interesting.Ê Joanne: You know, Abram, we could spend this whole podcast just talking about all 154 of ShakespeareÕs sonnets because that insufficiency, that fragility of the written object is something heÕs concerned with in so many of the poems. And you have to ask yourself, Òwhy does he have to write 154 of them?Ó What could he not say in two or three of them that he feels compelled to return to or something that he needs to complete or describe or exceed. That is something that you could just spend lots of time thinking about, each one of the poems is amazing in that way. Abram: Yeah, and when you think about describing, so one of the reasons heÕs got to write another sonnet is because heÕs not actually described what this beloved looks like. So if this is the poem that is going to immortalize the beauty of this person, what does this person look like? If this is the only sonnet youÕve got and you read it, can you tell me what this beloved looks like? Joanne: Not at all, no idea.Ê Abram: So whoops! WeÕve got a very specific poem meant to immortalize the beauty of a person without actually giving us any of the details of the beauty of that person. Joanne: Yeah. Abram: So actually, what happens at the end of the poem is that the poet has immortalized himself. We do know about the poet and we do know about the poetÕs skill and we know nothing, really, about the beloved by the end of this poem. Joanne: When you look at each of these sentences, what is he doing at the level of word choice and phrase choice that really leaps out at you? Abram: Yeah, I love where thereÕs repetition. It usually draws my attention. Why are we using the same word again? As you said to me before, a sonnet is only so much real estate. And when you use a word and use a word again, you are using some prime real estate, so thereÕs got to be a point to it. And in that second line, youÕve got the word ÒmoreÓ twice. ÒThou art more lovely and more temperate.Ó And I see this as sort of his playfulness at the beginning. The poem really begins very playful. Because itÕs kind of messing with that word Òtemperate.Ó The best thing about summer is a mild summer day and here heÕs basically saying ÒyouÕre more, youÕre more, youÕre the most, youÕre the most amazingly temperate.Ó [Laughs] Joanne: [Laughs] Abram: And so that ÒmoreÓ is just kind of messing with that word that ends the line. What sort of words do you notice? Joanne: Well, the same one, if I could just spend more time on Òmore,Ó it goes against the iambic pentameter line. So this is something that anytime we read a sonnet by Shakespeare or anybody, think about how they go against the meter. So it should be Òthou art more lovely and more temperate.Ó That would be a perfect iambic line, but the drama of the line suggests that it should be read Òthou art more lovely and more temperate.Ó So that goes against the beat. And that suggests to me that this is a poem where he really wants to accentuate the excesses or the surfeit of beauty that is in this young man, you know? Abram: Mmhmm. The words that stick out to me are the ones that actually narrate the transformation of this poem from something thatÕs sort of laughably about beauty into something thatÕs really deeply about death. And so youÕve got Òthe eye of heaven shinesÓ and then it dims, itÕs dimmed, and then it Òdeclines,Ó and then it Òfades,Ó and then in line 11 youÕve got death, death itself. And in fact that line is a reference to Psalm 23, Òyea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil for thou art with me, thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me.Ó And in a way, Shakespeare is almost saying, Òeven though you walk through the valley of the shadow of death, donÕt worry because my pen will immortalize you. My pen is with you.Ó So heÕs sort of taking on a sort of godly role here. Joanne: ThatÕs remarkable, and even as I hear you talk about death and IÕm looking at the words around those lines, the use of Òeternal,Ó it appears more than once, Òbut thy eternal summer shall not fade...when in eternal lines to time thou growÕst.Ó ThereÕs a really serious undertone to this poem, this concern with death and staving it off and the hope that just words could make that so. It's a very profound concern with mortality that I find very moving.Ê Abram: So itÕs one of those poems that sort of takes you off kilter because we begin with a clichŽ and we end with meditations upon permanence, death, and precarity. Joanne: With all of that in mind, would you consider reading this poem again? Abram: Sonnet 18:Ê Shall I compare thee to a summerÕs day? Thou art more lovely and more temperate: Rough winds do shake the darling buds of May, And summerÕs lease hath all too short a date; Sometime too hot the eye of heaven shines, And often is his gold complexion dimm'd; And every fair from fair sometime declines, By chance or natureÕs changing course untrimm'd; But thy eternal summer shall not fade, Nor lose possession of that fair thou owÕst; Nor shall death brag thou wanderÕst in his shade, When in eternal lines to time thou growÕst: So long as men can breathe or eyes can see, So long lives this, and this gives life to thee. Joanne: Bravo, that was so good. Thank you for listening to our podcast today. If you want to learn more about this poem, you can visit our website and we hope that you will join us next time. Thank you! Abram: Thank you!