Emily (00:06): Welcome back to another episode of Open Door Policy. We're so glad that you've joined us today. I'm your co-host Emily Mentock, and I'm joined today by, Fr. Patrick (00:13): Father Patrick Gonyeau. How you doing Emily? Emily (00:15): I'm great Father Patrick, how are you? Fr. Patrick (00:17): Doing wonderful. So glad to be able to do another episode of Open Door Policy. I have said it off the record, off the air that these episodes are always such an uplifting experience. My heart is full after doing them. I just love hearing about what God is doing in the lives of our guests who are giving witness to the Lord. And I just find it to be tremendously inspiring. So just throw the bee, here. So what's going on in your life, Emily? Emily (00:44): Oh, well, it's funny to come up with these things. We're actually recording back to back episodes today. So I was like, what's new my life from yesterday from our conversation with Melissa? But I actually had a really great experience today. So I'm a parishioner at St. Aloysius parish in downtown Detroit, near my apartment and Father Mario, who's the pastor there and Beth Alison, who we've had on the podcast, who's the Engagement Director, they are, you know, they're so focused on building community for, especially for the downtown sort of crowd of people at St. Aloysius. It's a smaller parish, but then they have this dream of building — and I think are successfully, so far — this close knit community. And so they reached out to my husband and I and said, Hey, we'd just love to get to know you more now that the pandemic is getting to a safer place. People are getting vaccinated, warmer weather. We can sit outside and they asked us out for coffee just to get to know us and talk about St. Al's and figure out ways that we might want to get involved and things like that. And that was just a joy because it was — you know, I think we all have that dream of our parishes being communities like that. And I felt just blessed that they I'm at a parish where they're doing that very proactively. So that was my sort of highlight of the day was getting coffee with Beth and Father Mario. Fr. Patrick (01:52): Getting together with a couple other disciples and a priest from your parish and just sharing some God's love made drinkable — coffee — and life and talking about how can we share more of this with more people? I think it's so beautiful that the attractiveness of good, healthy, holy fellowship and friendships between brothers and sisters in Christ. What — I have a friend who says joy is unstoppable, and the joy that is manifested through the love of good friendships among brothers and sisters in Christ is infectious. That's an awesome story this morning. Can I give you one quick — Emily (02:30): Oh, go ahead. Fr. Patrick (02:33): Here it comes! So I would love to give you one. And this is an update for those who listen to the podcast, regular listeners. Thank you, by the way, for listening, we truly appreciate you listening and sharing Open Door Policy. So Jordan and Napoli, who were guests a little while ago and had a powerful testimony of being newlyweds and discovering some fertility issues and God blessing them with the gift of a baby — just a glorious, a story of the recent birth of their beautiful little girl Zelie Marie, who is named after Zelie Martin. Napoli has a great devotion to Louis and Zelie Martin, the parents of Saint Therese of Lisieux, so I saw her baptism recently and just an amazing gift watching how God has blessed this couple, this newlywed couple and their faith in God. And it was through NFP that Napoli gave testimony that she discovered some difficulty. So God's fingerprints are all over the gift of this little girl's life, and seeing them and the joy of this baby, watching their family grow. And it was a really incredible experience. So that's a highlight recently I'm happy to share. Emily (03:44): That's great. And we're leading up to we're recording right before Mother's Day, too. Is your parish doing anything for Mother's Day Father Patrick? Fr. Patrick (03:50): We will definitely have a special blessing of the mothers. We usually at Corpus Christi Catholic Church have a Nigerian tradition where the Nigerian women, they wear their festive Nigerian church clothing, and they have a special procession like they would in Nigeria, like lots of chanting and dancing and, you know, part of the gift of Corpus Christi is our cultural diversity. We have people from, I think, over 16, different nations represented and yeah, there's a beautiful spirit of celebrating the traditions of other cultures and their Catholic faith in their country. And that that's something we would do. Anything going on at St. Al's? Emily (04:29): You know, I'm not sure. There's a event tonight for Mary, like sort of May Crowning event combined with a carpentry workshop for the year of St. Joseph, So kind of doing both Mary and St. Joseph, but I don't know, there's not too many mothers in our — I mean, compared to most parishes that would have like more families. And so there's not that many families that live downtown, so I'm not sure what they're doing on Sunday. We'll have to see. I'm going home to visit my mom actually for Mothers Day and her birthday. So we'll all be home this weekend, but anyways, we are super excited about today's guest who just really, I've been blown away by his, the way he's living his life so boldly for Christ as a person in business, as a family person. And I think Father Patrick, you know him from different parish connections, but I'm going to, I can go ahead and give, as we always introduce our guests the three fun facts that we definitely — these ones are beautifully written. Emily (05:25): I feel like we need to get into what is the meaning of these fun facts to share? So for our guest today, he says that his favorite place to visit is normally where he is. And so Father Patrick and I were discussing before we came on air — is that just anywhere in the world wherever you are, or is it just being very mindful in the moment? So we'll have to dig into that a little bit. Also enjoys a wide set of experiences, which is super cool. I'm an experience person, so I definitely relate to that. And then the last one is that a step ladder fulfills his need for an adrenaline rush. So definitely keeping it close to home in the adrenaline rush-seeking. And so without further ado, I am super excited to welcome our guest John Hale to Open Door Policy. Welcome John. Fr. Patrick (06:09): Hooray! Welcome, John! John (06:09): Thank you so much, Father, Emily, what a pleasure and I'm very humbled and grateful to join you today. Fr. Patrick (06:15): We're thrilled to have you. And John, please out of the gate. I've had the blessing of meeting your family, but I'd love if you could share share with the listeners about, you know, your family. John (06:26): We have been tremendously blessed, Father. My wife, Kristen, and I have five children: two boys in college, and we have two daughters in high school at Father Gabriel Richard here in Ann Arbor — and our daughter Elizabeth is graduating. And then our youngest son is a freshman at University of Detroit Jesuit High School. So we have John Jr., David and Ana — excuse me —Elizabeth, Ana, and Andrew. Fr. Patrick (06:54): Awesome. And hey, we're going to get into some encounter, grow, witness questions, but also please tell us about Corporate Travel. I think many people might know your name, but we'd love to hear about that beautiful ministry. John (07:04): It's been a great gift, Father. For 20 years, my brother-in-law David and I have had the privilege to work here and purchase the business from my father-in-law, Joe de Franco, who started this company in 1965. And we have several divisions. Basically our mission is to enhance lives through travel and event experiences that build culture. So that's kind of our limiting factor is that, you know, we're not just doing experiences for the sake of experiences, but really to help form people, and conform people to the heart of Christ. And we, find that for us, the best ways that we were able to do that are through experiences of music, faith education, family, and then just kind of a basket that we call culture, which is, you know, food, art, wine, bourbon, whatever works. Beautiful. Yeah, so it's been a great blessing and a great privilege to serve, you know, so many amazing people and to have such a terrific team. I mean, God has just — it's just been a theme for us of just putting amazing people in our lives who just allow us to grow and love him more through their witness and through their love. Fr. Patrick (08:25): Awesome. Emily (08:25): That's so awesome. Okay. So we have — I want to under better understand when you say your favorite place in the world, of all these experiences that you've had and you're trying to create for others, the places you've traveled. When you say that your favorite place is where you are. What does that mean to you? John (08:39): I often am asked that question. Oh, you know, all the places you've been or that you go to, what's your favorite? And, you know, I'm on the spot and I think, gosh, it's so hard for me because what I think about when anyone asks me that question is the beauty of that place. I think of the people I've met there. I think of the sacred places I've been to, the Masses I've attended, the food of that place, the beauty, whether it's mountains or sea, or, you know, castles in Ireland or you know, the wine region in France. And what I really concluded is, gosh, wherever I am God has really given me the gift to just enjoy that place at that moment. And so my answer, it sounds a bit glib, I know, but that's why I thought it might be a fun fact. 'Cause it's a question I'm often asked. Is it truly, there are so many amazing places. I mean, every — there's not a corner of this earth that God has not blessed with amazing people with amazing places where he hasn't encountered each of us in some way. And when you travel the world and you see his fingerprints how can you not love that place that you're in? And whether that's —. Fr. Patrick (09:49): I want to get on a bus right now! Emily (09:49): I know, can this pandemic end so we can please travel again? John (09:51): Let's go! Emily (09:57): That's awesome. Well, John, it's so great to hear you speak about, you know, the encounter that you see all over the world, the way God encounters people in different ways through different experiences. But here in this podcast, we and our listeners, we want to know about your own encounter with Jesus. So maybe you can talk us through it, whether how your life began as a Catholic, or if there was a moment in which you encountered Jesus, but how did you come to be what we describe here in the Unleash the Gospel movement, a joyful missionary disciple? John (10:24): Oh, thanks, Emily. You know, God has just blessed me. And I think if I had a theme of my life, it's the people that he's placed in my life from birth. And he must have known how much I needed them because it's the people who witnessed for me from my birth, you know, starting with my parents, my grandparents, my aunts and uncles, my brother. From the very beginning, it's just like I've been given this gift of people who love and reflect the love of Christ at every step of the way. And you know, through godparents or friends or high school, and then on to college, you know, I went to the University of Michigan, kind of an unlikely place to encounter, you know, people of faith and yet God put them there. And then on to law school, just an amazing set of friends who I continued to grow through their witness, and then you know, through practicing law for a number of years. John (11:23): And then of course through this business. So, it really has just been this — maybe from one view might be boring, but from another way, it's just been this very blessed journey of slowly encountering him through people, through experiences, through trials, you know, through some suffering as we all, every life has. And through tremendous choice. I mean, when I look back and I reflect on, you know, especially my early life, I grew up in a small community, Port Huron which is on the water and I call it the other, other Holy Land. It's my favorite place. I love my people. I love my family and I love the water. And I just think of that time as fun. My family was a lot of fun. We had a lot of laughter in the house, and I think that, especially in our world today, we're missing that. We lack that we can't — you know, there's not enough self-deprecating humor, there's some, instead, a lot of self-aggrandizement, you know, where through social media, we're trying to put our best foot forward all the time and we can't even make fun of ourselves or lovingly tease others. And I think that's sad, because that's very much how my life was, particularly when I was young, was just that ability to laugh and have a lot of joy. And that's the beginning of becoming a joyful witness, right. Is to actually have joy and laughter. Right? Emily (12:40): I think the joyful part is so interesting 'cause I've heard of, you know, intentional discipleship and things like that, but something that I've found, you know, kind of being an outsider coming into Detroit that is really unique and specific and is something I love about being here is that being a joyful missionary disciple is an important part of it. It doesn't mean you're happy all the time. Like you said, there is always those trials and sufferings that you go through, but that to see — and this is clearly in the letter — that joy is an important part of unleashing the Gospel, like joy in your life, living joyfully or responding to other's joy, I think is just a really unique part of that. Okay. Father Patrick, you go, I'm talking too much now. Fr. Patrick (13:16): John. Oh, it's wonderful. John, is there something from your early days in Port Huron that you can remember, I love the description of your family and is there something you can remember from your faith at a young age, maybe it was altar serving, maybe it was Easter Sundays together. Is there something from your faith as a young man, as a boy, maybe a teenager that just, you knew? And I love these testimonies of people that are raised up in a family where from the youngest age they're really seeking to sew the gift of faith into your heart and your mind, and then the child by the grace of God is able to receive it, which is wonderful, and a great, I think, ideal. Is there something from your childhood in your teenage years, maybe back in Port Huron that you can think, yeah, it was there, like, that I could tell, like I knew I needed to follow Jesus? Just curious. I respect the organic growth you've described as well. John (14:11): Well, thanks Father. I think, you know, one of the earlier memories of maybe becoming what we would call or I would call maybe more devout and in grade school actually a my godparents children babysat us and they were a wonderful family and they showed me how to pray the rosary. And this is in grade school. And, you know, at that time I was in public school, but even through catechism, it really wasn't all that — it wasn't what we have even today in terms of resources. So they showed me how to pray the rosary and it was just something I was immediately drawn to and prayed with some regularity, even in, you know, say third, fourth, fifth grade, and then through my life. So I can remember vividly, you know, kind of even alone praying the rosary and God putting that person in my life at that moment to introduce it to me, it having some spark or some resonated on some level with me, such that I wanted to pray it and, and meditate on the mysteries. John (15:16): And I had a little book, you know, with a little meditation for each — I'm so old, Father, we only had three sets of mysteries, but each — it's right. Well, but you know, you really more deeply understood those mysteries. And then I would say that's sort of like a seed that then when you, you know, you're in Mass every week, or you hear something, you always tie your experiences together and slowly they're knit together and God does it in, I think, his own time where connections are made, and then you understand you know, the Old Testament, the New Testament and how, you know, one foreshadows and one is the fulfillment of, and then, you know, everything becomes more meaningful and more deeply. And so that is a very long answer, but —. Fr. Patrick (16:08): No, it's beautiful. John (16:09): At that young age that I think sort of where some of those seeds were set, certainly going to Mass every weekend. And then you just build on it and your God builds on it. Fr. Patrick (16:19): Beautiful. John, you know, there's a beautiful scripture that you remind me of as I listened to your testimony, it's in second Timothy chapter three, verse 14, "But you," Paul writing to Timothy, "But you remain faithful to what you have learned and believed because you know, from whom you learned it, and that from infancy, you have known the sacred scriptures, which are capable of giving you wisdom for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus." And I loved the time I got to meet your whole family. And your story from Port Huron and this gift of yes, it's been there. It's been growing throughout the years, this faith, and I saw it in your children and your beautiful marriage and like your children, like, they have been following the way of Jesus from what I could see there. It was beautiful, John. And I wanted to ask you two questions. One was, could you share about your encounter with Jesus when you met Kristen and Jesus revealed to you that this is the bride I've brought you? She's an amazing woman of God. I really just honor your marriage and your family. And the second is about the growth you've experienced as a disciple when you entered into that vocation. John (17:26): Well, I've never really shared the story publicly. I'll try to make it [inaudible], but I was entering my final year of law school and a friend told me about Kristen and wanted to sort of match make. And I was going to study law overseas in London, and it happened that Kristen was living there for that summer as a teacher. Anyway, we didn't get to meet, but it was this sort of buildup that, "You have to meet Kristen de Franco. You have to meet Kristen de Franco." And it took 10 months to meet her. And by the time I met her, I was graduated from law school and studying for the Bar. And I had a very set rhythm to be able to — you know, you had to be disciplined when you're those two months, you could just kind of let the day go by. John (18:07): So I get up early every morning. I would pray a rosary. I would go for a run, I'd go to my Bar review class and then study in the afternoon. But every night I would go get on my knees and pray. And I had a book that's was Life's Little Instruction Book. And again, you probably don't even know what these are, but it was a father writing to a son, these pithy kind of statements every day. And I had it in the form of a calendar, someone gave me a calendar. So for that day, I would rip off and see what the next sort of piece of advice to this father — it was secular — but this father writing to his son would be, and it was just part of this, you know, OCD routine that I was into during that period. John (18:47): And so now keep in mind for 10 months, I've been hearing about Kristen de Franco. So in the middle of this week, about June 9th, this is 1994. My friend called and said, "Well, you're not going to believe it. Kristen de Franco is going to be with a group of us in Royal Oak," which is where I was living. "And we'd like you to join us this Friday." Oh, okay. Great. All right. I'll see you this Friday. So I go to bed that night and I rip off the, for the next day, the advice and the advice from the father to the son was, "Remember to go on blind dates. That's how I met your mom." Emily (19:22): Oh my gosh. Fr. Patrick (19:22): Wow. John (19:24): I have to say, I went, you know, thinking, wow. And I brought that with me and I knew immediately to be honest. And that was — you know, we've been married 25 years this year. And Kristen and her family are really again, just a significant part of that journey. I mean, her parents are another set of parents for me, her — what Kristen has brought to my life. I was just telling her this week that you know, you were afraid because when we first met that it might be just infatuation, you know? And 'cause I had this sort of mindset that I didn't even share with her, obviously, that night, I would've scared her off. But but I kind of knew. And I said, you know, I was telling the kids that I get as excited to see mom today as I did, you know, 25 years ago. So yeah. Emily (20:14): Gold. Fr. Patrick (20:15): Absolutely. You said, "I knew immediately." That you pulled that paper and you went on that date and would you say that night, you just saw experienced in your heart? John (20:23): I did. Fr. Patrick (20:25): Holy smokes. John (20:26): Yeah. I definitely did. Now it took a lot of trickery to convince Kristen. New Speaker (20:31): [all laugh] Fr. Patrick (20:34): Hey John, I have to tell you one line, share one line with the listeners too, from Unleash the Gospel about families. It's so good that you and Kristen just shine this. "Through the sacrament of matrimony and through their love for one another, a husband and wife make visible the love between Christ and his Church." Your marriage shows the world, the marriage of Jesus, the marriage of heaven. It's beautiful. And I love to hear — sorry, I'm going to stop talking so much, Emily. I'd love to hear a little bit about like your experience of growing as a disciple. Like, whoa, marriage probably brought you right into that. And and what it's like to be a father, brother. John (21:09): It did. I mean, again we were married maybe about a year and then we were expecting our first born son, John, and you know, he's graduating from college this year and he's been — and each of the kids have just been such gifts. And, you know, I guess I would sort of fast forward to this past year, which has probably been the most difficult year of my life with the pandemic. You know, I sort of quipped that what could be more fun than owning a travel agency in a pandemic, but, you know, the truth is it has been enormously painful, very trying, and you know, a number of Herculean crosses. It seemed overwhelming at first. And I, you know, for certain, without God's grace, you know, I wouldn't be on this podcast today. And one of the ways in which he's manifests that grace has been through my wife and my kids. And my kids have been such a bright light through all of this. John (22:04): They have been — in fact, I give all the credit to Kristen and the kids. They have been the joyful missionary disciples that have just picked me up and said, you know, keep going. And you've got this. And I have a note right here from John, you know, you're killing it, boss. You know, he snuck in one night and wrote it, and the kids will hide notes here in my office during these trials of this last year. And so, you know, the fact that, you know, you now have your kids witnessing to you as a father is kind of like the best gift you could have, you know, ever. And so I give thanks to God for that, because he has blessed me with kids and a wife and parents, and, you know — my, and Kristen's parents and, you know, the whole team here, who's just been so, so amazing. So you know, I guess I don't mean to fast forward so far, Father, but I think it kind of gives a sense that yeah, we all have trials and we all have you know, situations in life that feel like a tsunami small and big. And I, we just, you can't get through any of them without the grace of God. Emily (23:14): Right. How — what were some of the ways through those challenges, you know, either as a family or in your own prayer life? Like, what did you turn to? Did you go back to the rosary that you'd been praying since you were, since you were a kid? Like, what were some of those practices that you kind of, especially in hearing you talk about your experiences studying for the Bar, returning to those disciplines to push through hard things? Well, what were some of the things that you did to be open to those graces? I think over the past year through those trials? John (23:39): I think — it happened that I was in the middle of Exodus 90 when the pandemic began. And so I had a really strong group of men who I've met with weekly and who still are, you know, again, they're part of this prayer team that I just feel has gotten me through. Of course the boys came home from college, so suddenly it was the seven of us all locked down together. And that was a great gift. And my wife had the idea that, well, as long as we're home and we're all here together every day we would somewhere between like five and six we would stop and we — there were seven days in the week, there were seven of us — we would each share something of faith, you know, and we'd have tea or coffee. And, you know, sometimes the girls would maybe make something to bake good or something. John (24:25): Everyone was baking and during the lockdown, right? And we were certainly among those that benefited from that. And we just would share, you know, John would talk about you know the Dante's Inferno that he was writing a report on in college. And the next day someone had heard you know, Bishop Barron podcasts that they would share that and why it meant something to them. And somebody else, we'd hear you know, a piece of art. Anyway, every day this became, Emily, just, you said, kind of this discipline, something to look forward to at the end of the day. And then because I was in this Exodus 90 program, which is sort of an aesthetic program for men, and — I know, you know, Father — and included in it is a set morning prayer of you commit to at least 20 minutes to an hour of meditative prayer. John (25:14): And that's one thing that the pandemic has really taught me and said, I'm very much a do kind of person rather than — and I've really learned the importance and experienced, I would say, I've always known the importance of meditative prayer. It's just been a hard for me to actually do it, you know, consistently every morning. And I think it's the sine qua non of life in faith, is to have that meditative quiet time in prayer everyday. It's just, you can't really go to the next step, I don't think, without it. So again, another blessing of this COVID has been the understanding in a new way of that need to really have that quiet time with Christ everyday. And so those were a couple of the disciplines that got us through. Emily (26:09): It sounds like in that pandemic experience, you really got to have both that quiet time through the Exodus 90 program, but also like the communal time with your family and the pandemic through all its challenges. I think for a lot of people probably did create space where there was space for it that maybe wasn't there when we were all very busy before, but also you still have to choose it intentionally in that moment. You still have to choose to do that everyday. And I think that people have gone through the roller coaster of the pandemic and trying to navigate what to do with this time, how to see the blessing or the opportunity in it emits all like the very real suffering that's going around. So thanks for sharing just that your personal experience with it. I think that's a lot — there's a lot of people who can hear that and listen and think about how that might apply to their own lives as well, whether it's more the communal side or taking time for quiet meditation, too. John (26:56): Yeah. Well, thank you. It's, you know, we've all been through an awful lot and some much more than us. And you know, we just have to unite and believe that God is doing good through a difficult situation. Fr. Patrick (27:12): John, what you said about meditation, taking the time to be silent with the Lord gives us such just a great opportunity to very briefly mention from the Catechism 1776, that paragraph number, "His conscience is man's most secret core in his sanctuary. There he is alone with God whose voice echoes in the depths." It's what Jesus said in John 10:27, "My sheep know me and they hear my voice." And it sounds like your discipline in prayer, finding that, this investment of time to be silent and listen, and be still with the Lord, makes all the difference to hear the voice, which is never separate from the presence. Is that accurate? John (27:54): It really is, Father. It's funny because I've even recently given talks that in that quiet moment, you know, you may or may not have even consolation, it may be a bit of a trial to get through it for a lot of us, if we're honest with ourselves, but it's not only worth it, it's imperative because I believe that in those moments, and even, especially if it's hard, that our hearts are made a little more supple through that little sacrifice of giving that time to God, so that we do hear God, maybe even if it's not in that moment. It might be speaking through a family or a friend member the next day, the next week, the next year, it might be that we see a circumstance a little bit differently than we would have if we didn't give this daily kind of first fruit to God. John (28:43): And so I think of it as setting up the condition to hear God, because sometimes we put too much pressure on ourselves and we think, okay, I'm going to take this quiet time. And then every day I'm going to, you know, God's just going to tell me what the next three steps are and, you know, doesn't interact with us quite that way. Sometimes maybe you do have a peace or a consolation or an epiphany in that moment, certainly, but take the — I think when we take the pressure off and we see that no, God uses that moment on a consistent basis so that when he does speak, we are open to it. Emily (29:17): That's so true. Also, I just want to pause and acknowledge Father Patrick, that you just quoted the Catechism by number. I was so impressed by it. [laughs] Fr. Patrick (29:24): I pulled it off. I mean, I do know that one, but I had it in front of me. Emily (29:29): But John, I think you're exactly right about those, those moments and being open. And I guess I'm wondering, like, what are, what are some of those little — the grace that God's given to you in those moments recently? Has there been something put on your heart, maybe in front of this podcast, or what are those little revelations or things that you've talked about that maybe if you, if you would want to share one with us, we'd love to hear about it. John (29:52): Sure. I contributed to a book last summer it's Teresa Tomeo, my dear friend, called Listening for God. And so I'll share something that relates to work and sort of the contemporary pandemic and, you know, when everything was going so sideways and, you know, the early days of, of the pandemic March, April, may, even into June, you really start to question, I mean, is this what I'm supposed to be doing? I mean, you can kind of get so beaten down and some of it is just the reality of what's happening and then some of it is, but I can't do what I feel like God had called me to do 20 years ago. And there's a frustration and a worry, anxiety, a hurt, there's everything, there's all these emotions. So I was at a Mass on a Sunday in June. And I was really praying, you know, God, what is my mission? John (30:44): I just kept saying my mission during the Eucharistic prayer. You know, are you asking me to maybe go back and practice law? Look, is this a launching point to maybe do something else? Open my heart and mind to other things? If that's what you're calling me to, or help me to feel more affirmed in where I am and that we're just supposed to muddle through this difficult time. And this is the truth. As I'm praying the second I thought the word mission, what's my mission. The Monsignor said, "your pilgrim" and the word pilgrim and the word mission coincided. The spoken word and the thought mission. And it was, I just, it was like this overwhelming, like I just felt this warmth and this overwhelming constellation that in fact my mission was to continue with pilgrims and serving pilgrims. And so I guess that's a recent really — and again, whenever you have a bad day and you think, ah, I don't know. I go back to that moment and I say, no, you know, God gave me that minute. And that was, I believe a clear sense of direction. And he wants me to be anchored in him and in his consolation in that moment. John (32:05): Beautiful, John. And you know, I've — I know you well enough to know you desire God's will in your life for you and your marriage and family. I wanted to ask you, what are, what are your dreams these days dreaming with God? Like, Lord, I'd love to see this happen? John (32:20): Gosh, you know, that's great, Father. A great, great question. I think I've been so shortsighted and just trying to get through the day to day. I guess what I would dream is to be able to meaningfully provide the experiences that enrich people's lives to the, and in the way that we have in the past, and to really give our team that sense of fulfillment. At the same time that we are able to grow the faith and the love in the hearts of those we serve. So I guess if I could dream, it would be that God shows us the way through the present reality and through the future reality of the world of how we are to provide those life-changing experiences to those he puts in our path. Fr. Patrick (33:16): John, you are one of those, brother. Seriously when people — I just want to honor you. When people bump into you with weight, you represent Jesus so well that, "Yet I live, no longer I, Christ is living in me," but you're a humble man. I imagine you probably want to swap my compliment, but I'm going to pitch it to Emily before you do it. [laughs] Emily (33:29): No room for response there! I think that's, that's super beautiful. And, you know, in hearing you share that story of kind of rediscovering that mission recently through the challenges, and then that your dreams are to really put that mission into action. It's just so beautiful. What a great witness. And we're very grateful to you, John, for sharing so openly and witnessing to the people, to me and Father Patrick here, I'm walking away, inspired by this moment, but definitely also for all of our listeners, we're so grateful to you. And we would actually also love to end in prayer for, to build on that mission for your dream for the dreams of people listening to this podcast, and also that hopefully we can all have those experiences that you've shared so much about and that your personal mission is to give to people again, soon, after the pandemic. So Father Patrick, would you like to start with prayer? Fr. Patrick (34:21): Oh, I'd love it. And then I'll alleyoop it over to John, and maybe Emily will bring it home. Sounds like a plan. In the name of the Father, the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, amen. Father, I praise and I thank you for Kristen's parents and for John's parents and the faith that they gave John and Kristen that they have received and have run with. I thank you for this marriage that shows the world, the marriage of heaven. I thank you for their children. And I ask that you bless their children's vocations and that John's mission to bring these pilgrims incredible Holy Spirit filled experiences would just be tremendously blessed far beyond all he could ask or imagine I thank you for his witness Lord, and I pitch it to you, John. John (35:05): Father, we give you thanks for this time together. We give you thanks for the witness of Father Patrick, of Emily. We pray for each and every priest, Archbishop, and all religious, and all those who serve in the Archdiocese of Detroit. May they be consoled by the love of all the faithful and may our hearts together unleash the Gospel, that our hearts may be conformed to Christ, and that we will find hope and joy even in the midst of trials and in the midst of the acrimony, that is the world that we may seek the true source of joy and hope, which is in Christ, our Lord. Emily (35:44): And Lord, we give you thanks for the gift of that joy that we've experienced here, recording the podcast, and to go back into our lives, to witness to the ways that you've changed us as joyful missionary disciples and to unleash the Gospel. I give you thanks for John and for his testimony for his family. And for all the many people he has touched through his work and give you thanks for the graces that have carried us through the difficulties of the past year and for the people in our lives that have carried us through and who have been your — the face of your love to us through all the difficulties. We pray for the people who are still experiencing the different sufferings now as we continue to navigate the particular challenges of this pandemic, and we look forward to when we may get to have those joyful experiences as pilgrims again in our lives and around the world. And we offer all of this up to you through the intercession of St. Joseph in this year of St. Joseph and through Mary, our Blessed Mother in this month of May. And we ask this as we ask all things and the name of your son, Jesus, amen. Fr. Patrick (36:50): Blessing, Lord, bless everybody. In the name of the Father, of the Son, of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Emily (36:54): Amen. Thanks for listening to another episode of Open Door Policy, where we hear stories of different joyful missionary disciples in Southeast Michigan and how they encounter, grow, and witness in their love for Christ. You can find more episodes at unleashthegospel.org/podcasts or on Spotify, Google, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you next time.