Fr. Steve Pullis: Welcome everyone to another episode of Open Door Policy, where we sit down with various disciples who are living out the call to unleash the gospel in new and exciting ways all across the archdiocese of Detroit. And today we are blessed to be joined with the Vickie Figueroa, a parishioner at Corpus Christi parish and the head of Black Catholic Ministries in Detroit. Vickie, it's great to be with you. Vickie Figueroa: Yes, it's great to be with you as well. Thank you for having me on. I appreciate it. Fr. Steve Pullis: And as always, the one, the only, the awesome Danielle Center. Danielle, how are you? Danielle Center: Hey friend. I'm doing well. How are you doing? Fr. Steve Pullis: I'm ready for the quarantine to be over. Maybe that's the most obvious statement ever. Danielle Center: Dude, one extrovert to another. Fr. Steve Pullis: But I'm doing okay, but I'm ready to be de-quarantined. Danielle Center: I was talking to someone and they were like, "How are you doing?" And I was like, "You know what? Every plane of my life is minorly inconvenienced, but also, we're in a global pandemic, so you can't really complain," so I heard that. Fr. Steve Pullis: Yeah. Danielle Center: But do you have any graces? Fr. Steve Pullis: I thought we were exchanging- Danielle Center: Complaints? Fr. Steve Pullis: ... complaints rather than graces today, but yeah. Danielle Center: I'm here for that. Fr. Steve Pullis: Yeah, just talking about graces. I had a wonderful opportunity very recently to do some social distancing visiting with family, I got to go visit my dad. And maybe not so great social distancing, but he wanted a haircut and I got to go try out my barbering skills. Danielle Center: Dude, do you want to give me a haircut? Because I am also in the same boat as your father. Fr. Steve Pullis: Well, maybe you should talk to my dad. Danielle Center: Maybe I should. Fr. Steve Pullis: Maybe you should talk to my dad first and hear how it went. But that was a lot of fun. Danielle Center: I'll read the sole Google review, and he leaves it anonymously. You're like, "Dad, you're the only guy whose hair I've ever cut." He's like, "I'd give it two stars." Fr. Steve Pullis: Hey, not looking to make a living, just trying to do my duty. Danielle Center: It's honest work. Fr. Steve Pullis: How about you, Danielle? Danielle Center: Well, the thing that we are allowed to do during quarantine is go hiking. So luckily it's a hobby of mine, one could say. And last weekend was nice weather, so I went out and hiked. There were, do you know, Fr. David Fons, over in Lansing diocese? Yeah, you're the one who introduced me to him. He walked the Camino this past summer, so we met up, did some hiking and Jesse met me too. So it was good. Fr. Steve Pullis: Awesome. Danielle Center: The great outdoors. Got a little sunburned. Fr. Steve Pullis: That's great. Well, let's dive into what we call a [foreign language 00:02:40] or in English, Rapid Fire Questions. Danielle Center: Yeah. Fr. Steve Pullis: Vickie, are you ready for some rapid fire questions? Vickie Figueroa: I'm ready. Let's go. Fr. Steve Pullis: All right. Danielle? Danielle Center: Here's the first one. What was your first job? Vickie Figueroa: Working at an amusement park in Youngstown, Ohio, behind the pizza and Italian sausage stand. Fr. Steve Pullis: So, a little technical difficulty with Danielle. I'm going to jump in here. Vickie Figueroa: Sure. Fr. Steve Pullis: Vickie, what's the most beautiful church you've ever visited? Vickie Figueroa: Immaculate Conception in Youngstown, Ohio. Fr. Steve Pullis: All right. I'm sensing a trend here. What song has been stuck in your head these days? Vickie Figueroa: Lizzo's, "Why are men great till they got to be great?" Danielle Center: Yes. "I just took a DNA test, turns out..." Vickie Figueroa: Turns out. Fr. Steve Pullis: All right, Danielle, take it away with number four. Danielle Center: I got you. Vickie, in which fictional world would you like to live? Vickie Figueroa: I'd like to live in fantasy, like Temple of my Familiar or Children of Blood and Bone, that type of thing. Danielle Center: Love it. And what is your favorite breakfast food? Vickie Figueroa: Quiche. Danielle Center: Nice. And I think I should take number six too. Fr. Steve Pullis: Yeah, go for it. Danielle Center: What was the location of one of your most powerful encounters with God? Vickie Figueroa: Sedona, Arizona. Danielle Center: Get it. Fr. Steve Pullis: Do you have a favorite Bible verse, Vickie? Vickie Figueroa: I believe it's Psalm 118 or Psalm 119. I get the numbers mixed up, but, "This is the day the Lord has made, let us rejoice and be glad in it." Fr. Steve Pullis: All right. Have you met anyone famous, other than Danielle? Danielle Center: Wow. Vickie Figueroa: Other than Danielle? Yes. The last coach of the lions, not Matt Patricia, but Caldwell. Fr. Steve Pullis: Okay. Vickie Figueroa: I have a picture with him. Fr. Steve Pullis: All right. Who's your hero? Vickie Figueroa: Harriet Tubman is my hero. Fr. Steve Pullis: Yeah. Vickie Figueroa: Yes. Fr. Steve Pullis: What's your favorite book you've read? Vickie Figueroa: The Color Purple. Fr. Steve Pullis: And what is your favorite item of clothing ever, that you've ever had? Vickie Figueroa: It is a dress I recently bought at a vintage shop in Royal Oak from 1970, I. Magnin, because I love vintage shopping. Fr. Steve Pullis: All right. Vickie Figueroa: I wore it to be introduced as the Black Catholic Office manager, back in November. Fr. Steve Pullis: All right. Vickie Figueroa: It's my favorite. Fr. Steve Pullis: Awesome. Danielle Center: Get it. Well, that's your rapid fire questions. We are going to jump back in with that one because one of my favorite dresses I made from a vintage, late 1950s pattern and I made it in a gray thing, and I love that silhouette of fit and flare. Fr. Steve Pullis: This is the point in the show that I just- Danielle Center: Goodbye. Fr. Steve Pullis: ... zone out. You guys talk dresses. I'll catch you in the next segment. Danielle Center: Well, you can ask about another one, but do you do a lot of vintage shopping? Vickie Figueroa: I do a lot of vintage shopping. I recently lost a lot of weight because I had some surgery done, so I lost the weight to heal better. And then naturally, I just kept it off. So I had to replace my entire wardrobe. Danielle Center: Wow. Vickie Figueroa: And I found that vintage clothing holds up. It's made well, it's beautiful. It's colorful, it's got these great fabrics. It's a nice heavy weight, and they just look good. So I would have to say half of my brand new clothes are vintage. And there are two eras that I identify with, and Danielle, you're going to love this. Danielle Center: I'm ready. Vickie Figueroa: I identify with the '40s and the '60s. Danielle Center: Love it. Vickie Figueroa: And then into the early '70s. I skipped by the '50s because that was that whole Jayne Mansfield, small waist, big, giant hip. Yeah, I didn't care for that. I prefer the 1940s, like the Billy Holiday, the Ella Fitzgerald or the 1960s of The Mod Squad. So I like that straight- Danielle Center: And you're going with polyesters and fun colors? Vickie Figueroa: Right. Danielle Center: Yeah. Vickie Figueroa: Yes, polyesters, fun colors, wool mixed in. Danielle Center: Love it. Vickie Figueroa: So that's what I like to do. Danielle Center: Love it. Okay. I'm on it. Fr. Steve Pullis: All right. Great. Vickie, your first job in Youngstown, Ohio? Vickie Figueroa: Yes. Fr. Steve Pullis: Tell us about it. What was your title? Did you have a job title? Vickie Figueroa: No, it was just concession stand worker, so we didn't have fancy titles. But basically, I helped make pizza and Italian sausage and peppers at an amusement park. We had this tiny little amusement park in Youngstown, Ohio. It had three or four rollercoasters, a couple of Tilt-A-Whirls, that type of thing. I was 15 when I had my first job, but they taught me how to make homemade pizza and peppers and sausage. And then by the end of the summer, I got promoted into working the cash register too. Danielle Center: Dang, girl. Fr. Steve Pullis: Could you throw the dough up when you were making the dough? Could you do that throw and catch thing? Vickie Figueroa: No, I couldn't do the throw or catch thing, but I was pretty good at putting it into and taking it out of the pizza oven. I had that skill mastered. Fr. Steve Pullis: Didn't burn your fingers doing that? Danielle Center: Yeah. Vickie Figueroa: Did not burn my fingers at all. Yes. Danielle Center: And what happened in Sedona? Vickie Figueroa: Well, it just showed the vastness, the beauty of God's creation. First of all, there was some fantastic hiking in Sedona. Fr. Steve Pullis: Yeah. Danielle Center: Yeah. Vickie Figueroa: I don't know if you've ever been there, but the red rocks are amazing. And it doesn't matter what level you are, you can just walk along a creek with water running through it and you'll have a God experience. It is amazing. And then the nighttime is so dark and the only lights you can see are up in the sky. And if it weren't for the stars, if it weren't for that light, you couldn't see anything. And you could just feel God's presence all around. So it really brought me to the fact that yes, I believe in an awesome God. I have an awesome faith, and I'm an awesome child of God. Fr. Steve Pullis: Amen. That's beautiful. Danielle Center: Yeah. Fr. Steve Pullis: Awesome. Thank you. Danielle Center: Vickie, you mentioned at the beginning and Fr. Steve mentioned that you work with in the Black Catholic Ministry Office. Can you tell us a little bit about your experience? What brought you there and what God's been doing? Vickie Figueroa: That's a great question. That's a big question. But what brought me there is one of my mentors, Fr. Don Archambault. I've worked with him for many years at Corpus Christi parish, and I've done a lot of different things. I've done vicariate work, I was a young adult minister for 10 years. I did vicariate regional level work, and he felt that I might be a good fit for this particular ministry. So he encouraged me to apply, and I've served on black Catholic ministries before, both at the local and regional level. So I applied and I interviewed with the team and it looked like it was a good fit, so I accepted the position. I believe that the church has a great opportunity to bring people of all cultures, black culture, Hispanic culture, native American, and other cultures into full life in the church. And for us to understand each other and to come together as brothers and sisters in mission and evangelize, not only to our own family members within our own cultures, but outside of other cultures. And that's what really attracted me to this position, the fact that I would be helping others know the beauty of God's creation and how they express themselves to each other. Danielle Center: Can you tell me a little bit about your experience as a black Catholic? Was your Catholic faith something that you grew up with? Was it something that you found later in life? What was that like? Vickie Figueroa: No, I'm a cradle Catholic. I was born a Catholic, Youngstown, Ohio, the whole bit. My father is from Puerto Rico, so he was the Catholic in our family. And then my mother's from Alabama and she was the Baptist, but as part of their getting married, they promised to raise me Catholic, so they did. So I stayed with that whole trail of authentically black and authentically Catholic that we heard in some of the Bishop documents, I believe it was from the '70s or '80s. Don't quote me on the years. We'll have to look those up. But how do we give to church with our cultural reality of call and response, and still remain Eucharistic within the parameters of the liturgy? So that type of experience. And it's actually been rich and wonderful. The two cultures, between the black culture and Catholic culture really do merge because the black culture is all about mercy and love and inclusion, and so is Cathlicity, as I like to call it. Fr. Steve Pullis: Vickie, was your faith important to you growing up? Was that a big part of your household or your own development into adulthood? Vickie Figueroa: Yeah. When was growing up, it was all about faith precepts. My father had images of the Sacred Heart of Jesus all around the house. He had Bibles all around the house, in both English and Spanish. He had crucifixes all around the house. It was great. So he was a very devotional, very material Catholic, and that's the way my Catholic faith was growing up. And then as I moved into my young adult years, as we all do, we fall away from the church, or many people do. Maybe you guys didn't, but I did. And then I came back to the church, early 30s. And then I adopted more of a faith that was less dependent on material goods and more dependent on how I was as a person. Was I merciful? Was I forgiving? Did I go to reconciliation to have my sins forgiven? Did I believe in a true presence in the Eucharist? How did I feel about supporting the church? That type of thing. So early on, it was very material because it was the faith of my parents. Later on, it became less material because it was my own faith. Danielle Center: Yeah. How do you feel like God has been working in your life recently? Is there anything that you've been praying for or working towards? Vickie Figueroa: Well, I've been praying as I move into a different age, middle age. I've been praying that, God, tell me what type of woman you want me to be. Danielle Center: Yeah. Vickie Figueroa: When you're young adult, you're on fire, your faith is very active, it's very sensual. You're using your hands and your feet. When you get to be a certain age, it's less that activity, and it's more, what am I doing to bring the next generation along? How am I missioned to other people so they can see Christ in me and want to follow me? And I think that God is trying to tell me to be the type of woman that people will want to follow, or at least take notice of because I'm forgiving, that I'm giving, that I give mercy and that I'm faithful to being Catholic. Fr. Steve Pullis: Yeah. That's beautiful. We talked to you a little bit ahead of time about what makes you proud to be Catholic, and you talked about that story in Matthew chapter 25, about the judgment of the nations, and how incarnational our faith is and how important that is to you. Vickie Figueroa: Yeah, definitely. It is important to me. I love the Catholics consider the entire, I don't know how to say this without sounding too weird and off center, but the entire person and their entire experience, from birth to natural death, that's a lot to be a steward of. Danielle Center: Yeah. Vickie Figueroa: That's a lot of human being to be a steward of, but Catholics are willing to take it on because we see the person as a person from the time they are brought into being inside of mom, all the way to time they go home to the Lord. And we take care of them, those 80, 90 years or a hundred years in between. And that's important. And then Catholics look at, well while they're living this 80, 90, a hundred years, how are they being treated? How are they treating others? How are they treating their surroundings? And I feel the Catholics really do it better. I've morphed and jumped from religion to religion and evangelical and different things. And what always brought me back to the Catholic church throughout my 20s into my early 30s was that the Catholics took care of the entire person, the entire family, the entire community, regardless of whether or not they were Catholic. And that's the person I want to be. Fr. Steve Pullis: Yeah. I've been reading Gaudium et Spes, the Vatican document on the church in the modern world, a little bit these days, and just thinking about quarantine life and a lot what you're talking about there, Vickie. Vickie Figueroa: Yes. Fr. Steve Pullis: Just knowing some people think, hearing different voices these days about are we being too cautious, not being at church? Even some people saying, "Well, if we believed in the power of the sacraments, how could people get sick going to church? How would God allow that?" And just very much what you're saying about the reality and the whole person approach that the Archbishop wrote faith works with science, and this very Catholic perspective, Catholic understanding of our faith is not detached from the material things. When God came to take on flesh in Jesus, he worked through the material things of this earth to reveal himself, and how our faith is very much tied into the way the material world works as well. They're not in competition with each other. Vickie Figueroa: Right. That's true. Fr. Steve Pullis: Yeah. Vickie Figueroa: That's true. Fr. Steve Pullis: Danielle, anything else for Vickie on the testimony piece here? Danielle Center: I have one more question. I'd love to just hear in your perspective and how you grew up. Is there a particular way that you liked to relate to Jesus? Would that be a cultural thing or it's something that just hit you in a powerful way. Vickie Figueroa: It partially is a cultural thing, but it hit me in a personal way. I like to see Jesus as my wise older brother, in that someone I can sit down and, "I've got a problem, Jesus. How do I handle this? Here, Jesus, take the wheel." So those are cultural type things, but then just being able to sit with Jesus in silence and know that I'm in his presence and protected, I think that's just something that I grew up to adopt with because sometimes I will just sit silent, knowing that Jesus is right there next to me and I can just bask in his presence. Danielle Center: Yeah. Fr. Steve Pullis: Yeah. Danielle Center: Thank you so much. Fr. Steve Pullis: Danielle, how do you do that? How do you relate to Jesus? Danielle Center: I love a few Sundays back, we had the Good Shepherd narrative, and that one's for sure one of my favorites, just as a companion and who's the step ahead, he's also in this. So that's mine. What about you? Fr. Steve Pullis: That's a little too personal. I'd rather- Danielle Center: Wow. Fr. Steve Pullis: No, I'm kidding. In this Easter season, I think a lot about the risen Jesus, and he's a little weird. And I mean that in the best way, but he's disappearing and he's telling people not to touch him and he is walking through walls, and he's unrecognizable in some ways. So I just think in my own prayer and experience sometimes, that's the Jesus I relate to a lot, where I don't quite understand everything. There's something awesome about what he's doing, but I don't get it all immediately. And it requires this faith to say, "Okay, Lord, I really believe you're here. I don't quite understand everything you're doing, but I trust you. I believe you, because you have conquered death, because you have quote unquote earned the right to be trustworthy by rising from the dead." So I'm really praying a lot with the risen Jesus these days. Danielle Center: I have a poem that I'm going to send you. It's by this poet, he lives in Colorado and his name is John Blase and he's not Catholic, but he is so cool. And he's definitely a Christian, definitely, because he writes a lot about God and Jesus. And he has this really cool poem that I'll send to you about Jesus in heaven after he's resurrected, but he's still carries with him the wounds. And so the poem is about how now he has something that isn't of heaven and he carries it with him, and now he's strong between two worlds, eternity and this world that he went to die for. And I'm just like, that's such a cool thing. So good. More art. Fr. Steve Pullis: Okay. Cool. Danielle Center: Well, thank you. Thank you, Vickie. Vickie Figueroa: Sure. Fr. Steve Pullis: So Vickie, you've been involved in the church in Detroit for a while now, and I know it's even professionally right now. Vickie Figueroa: Right. Fr. Steve Pullis: So Unleash the Gospel came out in 2017 and the Senate and all that. What in the document in Unleash the Gospel was most inspiring or most hit you personally? Vickie Figueroa: I thought there was one part, but actually there are two parts that really hit me professionally and personally. I should say personally first. One of them was the good habits, and then the second one was equipping lay ministry for the gospel. I'll go back to the first one about the good habits first. It's the whole thing about confidence in God. Sometimes we worry so much that we have to take all these burdens on our shoulders and it's like, let go and let God, he's got this. He gave us the tools, he gave us the minds, he gave us the wills to work it out. But remember, he's there, giving you the Holy Spirit, giving you the presence of his son, giving you the Triune God experience to help you power through. So that's what really struck me about that one. Fr. Steve Pullis: Yeah. Sometimes he does that by taking away all the stuff we rely on, like I don't know, say a global pandemic, where you're like, okay, I used to rely on my strength in this area or that area. You had talked about illness previously, going through some of that. For some people, it can be illness. I know for lots of people now, it's taken away, I think Danielle, we were talking about this earlier, taken away all the things that... I don't know, I'll just say like I define my life by, that I get meaning from, and a lot of that's taken away now and now there's a whole lot more of, okay, Lord, I have to turn to you rather than looking for my meaning in a bunch of other stuff. Vickie Figueroa: Yeah, that's true. Danielle Center: It's been a lot of fun. Vickie Figueroa: It has been. And then under good habits too, it talks about innovation and boldness. The Catholic church to some people can appear stuffy and behind the tongue. Fr. Steve Pullis: No. Vickie Figueroa: Yeah. Fr. Steve Pullis: No. Vickie Figueroa: I know. Yet, you have a church that wants us to go out there and be innovative and to take risks and to be bold about proclaiming the good news of Jesus Christ. And that's a mind shift for a lot of us to move from that maintenance, that comfort zone into the zone of, I actually have to look someone in the eye and tell them Jesus loves them. That's a different thing for many Catholics. And I'm glad that we've been tasked with doing that. So that's really important to me. Danielle Center: Yeah. And a little bit earlier we were talking and you said that you have a lot of passion about youth and young adults, especially urban youth and young adults. Vickie Figueroa: Yeah. Danielle Center: Can you talk to us a little bit more about that, where you see challenges, where you see opportunities? Vickie Figueroa: Yes. I definitely will do that. Urban youth are facing so many different challenges and opportunities at the same time. The challenges come, sometimes they come from poor households, maybe single parent households. No, actually definitely single parent house home. 70% of some of our urban youth are raised in single parent households. And that makes it difficult for them to get the attention, maybe to get the financial and material resources to thrive as persons. And then sometimes there are lack of role models around, not because there are a lot of bad people around, but because you've got people working two and three jobs just to keep a roof over their heads, so as a result, the kids are left to fend for themselves. And since our education system is tax based, you have a lot of urban youth who are going to schools that are not well funded, that are poorly funded. Maybe they don't have internet service at home. My heart is breaking during this pandemic. Thank goodness. Comcast is stepped up, or one of the internet providers has stepped up to give free services to kids so they can get their school lessons. And that can be discouraging to a child. When they take a look at other kids in the suburbs or at some of the wealthier city schools or on TV and they've got these great lives, and here they are struggling day to day. Yet, the urban youth are incredibly hopeful as well. They will go out of their way. If they happen to get a notebook, they will go out of their way to go across the street, tear that notebook in half and give their neighbor half of it. Whereas the suburban child may be able to keep the entire notebook and use it. They will share their last dime, their last meal with someone else. So not only are they ripe for mission, but they're also ripe to be missionaries because they know what it's like to suffer and they know what it means just to give somebody a little bit of something. Danielle Center: I love that. That was very well put. What would you like to see more of in the church? How can we empower those young people? Vickie Figueroa: Well, I'd like to see us reach out to the young people and ask them what they would like to see in us. One of the things I know they'd definitely want to see in us is just more authenticity, more reaching out to them, more just hanging out and in creating a safe zone for them to come and talk, to come and maybe play basketball or play games or play chess or checkers, give them some affirmation, give them some advice and wisdom, so they know there is hope that they can leave some of these urban areas, get training, come back and help the next generation of people. So I would say give them hope and give them safety. You don't have to give them a lot of material things, but I think hope, safety, love, compassion are things that our youth are looking for more than anything else. Fr. Steve Pullis: I just wanted to say, you mentioned the need to listen, and I was just thinking of the Holy Father releasing the document on young people just last year about how we engage in ministry for young people. And he puts a huge emphasis at the beginning about listening. If we're going to accompany people, to help them find Jesus, it has to start with listening to them, letting them know the cheesy axiom, people don't care how much until they know how much you care. So I think that's where it begins, by listening so we can say, "I want to bring the gospel to where you are in your life, want to see the way God is already working in your life," and not just think it's this cookie cutter approach that doesn't take into account the unique circumstances of someone's life. Vickie Figueroa: That's true. I was going to say, to reach young people you don't have to be necessarily a young person yourself. I've seen people in their 60s and 70s reach a 15 year old, where somebody 25 or 30 could not. I think what young people are looking for more than anything is authenticity, an authentic mentor. Fr. Steve Pullis: Can we keep blocking Danielle out of this conversation, Vickie? Maybe we can just keep it- Danielle Center: I really liked hearing what you guys are saying, and I am not trying to break in, but I can't see you. Fr. Steve Pullis: I know. Danielle Center: So I keep accidentally saying things. I'm like, "Wait, I'm sorry." Fr. Steve Pullis: Go for it. Danielle Center: I was going to say, I have a friend in Chicago, Fr. Connor, and I listened to his podcast, Three Dogs North, shout out. And one thing that he said once, I'm going to paraphrase, but it was kind of like a large part of ministry is just showing up, so this idea that, "Hey, I'm here." So I guess a question that I have for you is how do we show up for our urban youth? I'm in a different situation because I attend Saints Augustine and Monica. But how do we build bridges and how do we let people know we care about you, you're valuable to our church and we want what you have for the goodness of the church as well? How can we do that better? Vickie Figueroa: Well, one way we can do is maybe step one. And I'm just thinking out loud as, as we talk about this. Step one is go to the social media channels where they are. So they tend to be on Instagram or something like that. Maybe just begin to see them with some "We care about you," check in. "Let us know you're doing okay." Post a picture of yourself or something like that. And then step two would be, we could go to those mentors in our parishes, in our urban parishes, because we have so many of them already, and just say, "Do you happen to know any urban youth who could use a reach out or helping hand?" And not use that person, but work with that person as a mentor, as an outreach specialist to start reaching out to youth, because once you reach out to one youth in need and they are served, the word begins to spread. So that's it. You always want to know where the good food truck is. So as soon as that person in the pew really begins to love and show mercy and show understanding and, "Hey, I got your back," and then other people are alerted, I think that's how we could do it. So that's step one, step two. Social media, and then I'm working with some of our people in the pews. And third thing would be, if we're allowed to do this, we don't have a lot of Catholic schools like we used to in the urban settings anymore. But if we could work through the Catholic schools that we do have, and then maybe some of those Catholic school students have public school friends that they could work through as well, maybe we could build coalition or built bridges that way. So we do it through social media, through our churches and through our schools initially. And then by that time, hopefully we'll have a large enough network where it could build and spread. Fr. Steve Pullis: What have you found to be helpful in your own ministry? And these days when we can't gather like we used to? I know Vickie, you and I have talked about, particularly in the African American community, how important personal contact is. Vickie Figueroa: Right. Fr. Steve Pullis: That people are not usually satisfied with, "Hey, let's do a Zoom meeting," or, "I'll talk to them on the phone," how important the person to person and just the physical touch, the hug, all those things are important. Vickie Figueroa: Right. Fr. Steve Pullis: What have you found to be good ways for people to be engaged in sharing the gospel with each other or just receiving the normal human needs we need these days? Vickie Figueroa: Actually this took me by surprise and I was happy with it as well. I had this three year plan laid out for Black Catholic Ministry. Year one, put together events, year two, put together an advisory board, year three, put together a social media communications plan. Well, COVID-19 blew that up. Danielle Center: Yeah. Vickie Figueroa: And the social media plan had to come to the front of the line. And believe it or not, our community will tell you social media is a great way to reach out to people in this pandemic time. They've responded very well to social media. And then not only that, but there are people who are on social media and those who are not. So those were on social media are like the captains, and then they'll take that information back through phone call, through maybe personal visit at a social distance to tell those people who are not on social media what happened on social media. So it's like you've got these channels of people working. Fr. Steve Pullis: So it's a way to get information out as well, right? Vickie Figueroa: Yeah, it is a way to get information out. And we've just been putting together some one off social media events that you look at the numbers while the live Facebook or the Zoom meeting is happening, and you see numbers like 15 or 20 or 25, and you don't think that many people attended or showed up. And then all of a sudden, I'm getting emails from four or five people. I'm like, "When were you on this event?" Danielle Center: Right. Vickie Figueroa: "How did you hear that? I didn't know you were on it." "Oh yeah, so and so told me about it, and I agree with you." And I'm like, "Okay." So there are some hidden networks in there, working in our favor. So social media has done a great job of anchoring the African American Catholic community. But don't get it twisted. We still want in-person contact. Danielle Center: Yeah. Father, you've been doing a lot of social media stuff too, haven't you during the quarantine? Fr. Steve Pullis: Yeah. I'm trying. I've done a few things. I've taken a little break these days, but certainly through Lent and Holy Week and Easter week, I find that one of the blessings of it has been people that I know don't go to church are engaging in some way now. Danielle Center: Yeah. Fr. Steve Pullis: Sometimes a little more passively, like I see them pop in to watch something for a minute, but other times asking questions or commenting on things. And I just think maybe God in his providence is allowing these days so that people who normally would not come to church to hear this will find it in other ways. Danielle Center: Yeah. Who knows what the church of the other side of quarantine looks like? How will this change us and help us to grow? Fascinating. Well Vickie, usually when we are coming to a close, we ask if you have anything, any closing words of wisdom or a prayer that you'd like to share with our listeners. We would ask now is the time, is there anything else that you'd like to say? Vickie Figueroa: Nothing in particular in closing or in prayer, but I do want to ask Fr. Steve and you Danielle, just when you're putting together materials and podcasts and things, remember diversity and inclusion, try to include people of all cultures, try to include images of all cultures so that all people feel included. Danielle Center: Yeah. Vickie Figueroa: Sometimes people out on the margin may not feel like they're part of the church, even though they're a big part of the church. So if they see themselves in print, if they hear themselves online, on podcast, on live events, they're more likely to pay attention and to pass that information along than if it's strictly images of the dominant culture. Fr. Steve Pullis: Yeah. Danielle Center: Thank you so much for that. We agree with you. Thank you. Thank you. Fr. Steve Pullis: Yes. Thanks, Vickie. Vickie Figueroa: All right. Fr. Steve Pullis: So grateful that Vickie joined us digitally in our Open Door Policy studio to share the ways that she is unleashing the gospel, especially with the youth in the city of Detroit. Danielle Center: If you liked this episode, please share it with your friends, your neighbors, your relatives, your Trader Joe cashier. You can also leave us a review on iTunes, follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Our handle is @OpenDoorDetroit. Help us unleash the gospel. Open Door Policy was produced by Ron Pangborn and the creative team of the archdiocese of Detroit. Speaker 4: It's colorful, it's made well, it's beautiful. Fr. Steve Pullis: I'm father, Steve Pullis with Danielle Center. Danielle Center: And this has been another episode of Open Door Policy.