49: Rebecca Gausnell

Got in touch because of the news. Yes, exactly, because you were you were trying to provide some at my some some reading also to the people who are interested in in working with their voice and by extension, I guess also with their mind and their body and all the other things that are also related. So I thought it might be interesting to talk about this, especially I think [00:00:30] in the current context of a lockdown where a lot of interpreters who are professional voice users find themselves, you know, sitting at home, maybe doing a little bit of work from home. But we can certainly we cannot do our usual lifestyle. I guess we could can't do our usual work the way we're used to doing it. And I suppose you're in a different or in a similar situation, rather. But we should probably start by by telling people a little bit who you are. First of all, because the reason I reached out to you back in the [00:01:00] day was that I found out that you do dialect coaching and also some some voice coaching.

And it was just the realization, I think, that interpreters are professional voice users, but probably don't think about that voice too much. Maybe they maybe they do it more. But I had the impression that we don't think about our voice all that much. Maybe we don't take it seriously enough. And you had this great tweet, I think for professional voice. He was his don't be a ski jumper.

Do you remember that [00:01:30] where you were encouraging people not to not to hunt no more? Yeah, exactly. Not to lean forward like this.

And this is basically how we at least how we used to spend our days is sitting in a booth, you know, maybe not the best air quality as well, which doesn't help hunched over a desk, you know, speaking into a microphone right in front of us. And I thought, yeah, exactly. We don't want to be a ski jumper. So that was that was where this initial interest came from. But lots of talk for me. Let's [00:02:00] hear a little bit from you. First, what what is it that you do on a daily basis, Rebecca?

I suppose I work with the voice in all sorts of contexts. I work quite a bit with actors on the their dialects, their accents. Also with multilingual actors to sound not only clear in English, but also competent to act in English. And then on the flipside, I work with [00:02:30] any person, really corporate types, but they come from all different backgrounds, people who want to feel more confident with their voice in a variety of situations. I've worked with tour guides dealing with some very intense traffic noise and losing their voices. Lawyers who need competence in front of a courtroom. Oh, gosh. University lectures, competence in front of students. [00:03:00] And so. I suppose, yeah, it's it's it's it's I work with the voice, whether that's accent, whether that's breathing and the voice. What we don't realize is the voices just in our bodies. So it's the muscles of our bodies, the breathing, the the actual air support. All of that goes into making voice.

Yeah, there's so much to unpack in there, right? I think that's the [00:03:30] interesting thing. So when you work with sort of different clients from different backgrounds, different contexts, what what what's your impression? What is the awareness of how important voices and how connected it is to you know, it's not just the voice right here. It's connected to entire body. And if something occupies your mind and maybe a stressed and tense, that makes it difficult to use your voice correctly, I think. How how aware of people of that? Or is it did you always get this sort of. Aha moment where we think, oh, yeah.

Voices so much [00:04:00] more than just what comes out of my my mouth, I guess.

I think what I see often in sessions is that people come and they, they have a sense that there's a problem somewhere. They're losing their voice quite a bit. Or when they get into stressful situations that maybe they'll raise their voice goes up or they can't think of thoughts or their brain seems to be in front of their thoughts. They always have a dry [00:04:30] throat or were locked jaw or feeling like there's something tense in the back of the throat. And it's not so. Normally we start to do the exercises, which are not very invasive, really. I'm I'm not normally asking a lot of personal questions, but sometimes there is that aha moment. I get like this because of the situation and the stress or the anxiety that I'm being put into that my body's [00:05:00] reacting to that.

Mm hmm. So do you find yourself often, maybe starting with these exercises? Not not really working with the voice at all in the beginning and maybe just having to deal with other issues, so to speak, before we can get to the actual voice work, be it, you know, accent removal, or we can get into that or projection or stuff like that.

I tried to get a real sense of the person to start. And sometimes they already know what's going [00:05:30] wrong. But if not, then we're told his voice coaches to really listen and observe both with our ears and our eyes. So you're looking for any tensions being held in the body? Maybe that's a tension in the chest. Of course, I'm kind of swamped here, but tensions in your chest and your shoulders, maybe irregularities in the breathing pattern. Is the voice really croaky or [00:06:00] is the voice really, really tight? And it's the really tight tight. So look at all of these characteristics and then we have ways in exercises to work with those characteristics. But to answer your question, I mean, certainly the psychological aspect comes up in sessions. Yeah, ultimately, I'm not a therapist, so it's just going to fit. Yeah. If it if it is something that seems quite serious [00:06:30] or the client wants to explore further, then I certainly recommend therapy. But the aha moment might come because the clients and I keep losing my voice. We work together a bit and then once the client is now in touch with that part of their body and they can say, oh, I'm losing my boards because of the situation.

Right. And by the way, for those of you who are joining us, feel free to pop a question into the Q&A, onto the chat. I'm happy to pass that on to Rebecca, so no [00:07:00] worries about that. You just mentioned that when you when you basically when you were taught, people are often surprised that InterpretBank can actually study to become interpreters, that that's just something you can do in a college or university. So I suppose you get the same reaction sometimes is that. Oh, voice coaching, OK.

That's that's a real profession, I guess, is something that sometimes all the time, all the time people go. What I didn't know was show up. Yes. [00:07:30] All the time, certainly. And I guess it's. We're in a way, we're kind of we're we're maybe a little bit out of the the singing coaching tradition. Traditionally, someone would learn as kind of to be a Bruce coach. Kind of an apprentice and learn as alongside a more senior teacher. And now. Yeah. Of programs and entire curriculum to [00:08:00] make a voice coach.

Yeah. I don't know how if you can say, is it is it quite similar to a singing coach. Because I had had singing lessons way back when, when I was in school and just looking at some of the activities that you did on your YouTube channel. For example, I thought there were quite a few similarities too. Yeah. Guess what a singing coach does in terms of warming up. And that was one of the questions we got for warm up exercises, which are also not just for the boys, but basically for the entire body [00:08:30] to, you know, just loosen up and get ready for what you want to do.

Certainly, there's some overlap between singing and speaking. Singers are are vocal athletes. They have to to kind of bring their voice to great heights. Even if, you know, even if you're not a Whitney Houston, you're still even just the act of singing. It is quite athletic, takes quite a bit of breath control pitch [00:09:00] and resonance matching or manipulation. So, yeah, there is certainly a lot of overlap between those two things I'd say.

But the main thing with.

With both, but definitely with this voice coaching, straight speaking coaching is we're always starting with the body and the breathing. That's that's the the foundations of voice. And the breathing [00:09:30] mechanism is just your muscles, right? Your your your lungs, your diaphragm, your lower abdominal muscles, the your ribs. But you have muscles in between the ribs, intercostal muscles.

So we're looking at releasing any tensions, tensions that kind of are covering up the free and embodied natural voice tensions that we've put [00:10:00] on maybe through trauma, through stress, through anxiety. And as we release those tensions, the breathing becomes more free and it becomes stronger as well as results. And then we bridge that breathing onto voice so that you can actually sustain phrases. And then from sustaining the phrases we bring that onto the resonance of the voices is so not overtly nasal, not really. Not narrow, not overly high pitched. If [00:10:30] someone doesn't want a high pitched voice. And then finally, of course, then there's the shaping of the sounds of the voice. So we're we're working with all of those layers.

Yeah. And I guess there is lots to lots to work with and also lots to unpack that. That's something that the questions are sort of pointing to as well. So maybe let's let's stay with a with a breathing a little bit for now. We don't want to turn this into a breathing session, but I guess we could we could share some resources, probably [00:11:00] point people to your exercises that you have on YouTube, for example, on how to sort of. Yeah. How to do breathing exercises and warm up exercises for the for the voice. But I wanted to get to something else first because before we that you said that you do some sessions of a video conference at the moment because that's there's just no other option. So you keep working with your clients. Do you find, you know, without oversharing, did you find that people are affected by what's happening to you? Do find [00:11:30] that they're more anxious, maybe more tense in a way.

I think certainly people are bringing more. Outside baggage into the sessions, correct? Yeah, definitely. And I think one thing that doesn't help with Zoom is that it's very two dimensional. So not only are people coming in stressed, but it's hard to kind of gauge how loud you need to be.

It's hard to kind of gauge, [00:12:00] you know, distancing. It's hard to kind of gauge going up to space in the room. And so people's voices are tiring, quicker over zoom. And people are coming into more of a squeeze in their throat. And, of course, we're sitting in chairs all day. And even in this chair, I'm terrible posture right now. We're not we're not it it's just not allowing us to kind of let [00:12:30] off the anxiety in the steam that we have to come into resume call. And then on top of it, on this in court, voices are getting tired because we're not posture's not great. And just the sense of connection between humans where you can kind of gauge how loud you need to be or or, you know, how much you need to actually support your voice isn't happening. We're not being fully immobile.

We're we're we're in disembody, literally just at [00:13:00] a level like screen like. So. Yeah. So the zoom fatigue, I mean, there's a lot of writing at the moment about it. I think it's definitely real. And there are a lot of different aspects to it. And yeah, I think also the problem that we spend so much time kind of an hour in our home or maybe even the same room doing one zoom session after the other, sometimes at least it feels that way. That certainly doesn't have. Whereas when you have, I guess when you have normal workshops and people come to the space that you use for that, or is it just the change of space kind of probably launches something in the head, just [00:13:30] a different state of mind. So people are maybe more open to doing that. Whereas now, you know, they're just in that kitchen or bedroom or whatever it may be. And having to do that, I think that makes it more difficult. Yeah, more difficult as well. So what would be your recommendations for for people who are just interested in getting started? I think with breathing exercises is there is though I suppose there's lots of material on YouTube as well. Guess there's something for everything. For everything. What [00:14:00] what would be kind of I think I had a top five at some point for breathing exercises. I think people would be very interested in that.

Certainly. Well, the place to start with breathing is release first. First and foremost. And that would be the release of the muscles, the breathing. So oftentimes with clients where I'm getting them, we're like like I'm a multiple person. I'm getting them on to the floor very [00:14:30] quickly. And I think I should, in my mind, YouTube video, my favorite exercise of all time is to roll up a towel and placing it on the length of the spine because you're going to not only open up your shoulders and chest, but you're also allowing the muscles of the back to release onto the floor muscles of the sacrum, the bum to release down.

And you just lie there. And the release [00:15:00] takes time, really, the release and the stretching, quite a bit of stretching. It takes time and it takes some funny effort, takes a funny sort of concentration as well. Even though you're letting go, you really want to place your focus on the breathing. And so you do this. It's amazing how many times a day we just hold our breath. Just completely [00:15:30] unconsciously, holding our breath out. Normally it's a sense of kind of not wanting to feel something now, just to mention one up for you. Exactly. So we just hold our breath. Whereas these breathing exercises, not only are they releasing all of the muscles, but you're getting in contact with the breathing to which you start to notice it. In this exercise and what happens is as you bridge [00:16:00] out of the exercise, you're going to start to notice it throughout the day. You're going to start to catch yourself when you are holding your breath and noticing that and going, OK. Breathe, breathe.

I don't know if people noticed that. That was I saw that on on Twitter quite often recently as just a just tweet from random people saying unclench your jaw. And it says, oh, yeah, right, right. I'm sitting. And it's it's not just because of Twitter, because it can be stressful sometimes, but just life in general and people telling you, oh, right. [00:16:30] Yeah, I'm a little tense and the whole noticing point, nothing is really important. And also what you mentioned that time. So I think it's very, very difficult also to see. OK. I cannot just take two minutes right now out of my super busy day and do some breathing exercises because they just take time to get into the right state of mind and stuff like that. I remember when I when I was a kid, I used to go to karate lessons and one of the first things we did was just not even meditation, but just sitting there in silence and breathing and just arriving basically. And [00:17:00] then always took longer than we thought. But it was very useful because it helped you to sort of focus on what you were about to do. And I think the same is also true for, you know, interpreting in our case, just arriving on time, ideally not being rushed and just arriving in the room and just being there for a few minutes and calming down, you know, before the months lost. So I think that's yeah, I imagine that's good because you work with film actress a lot. I imagine that's sometimes difficult to do if you're with them on set, which I think you sometimes do. And there's [00:17:30] probably so much, you know, buzz around is it might be difficult to get them to focus on the things that you're trying to coach them, I guess, or give them notes or things like that.

I always try to be sure that we have a dedicated time for. For voice work or dialect work, because, you know, they have a dedicated time for hair and makeup. They have a dedicated time for it, do it for your costume. They have a dedicated time for her breakfast, lunch and dinner. They have a dedicated [00:18:00] time for everything. So I'd make it a point that they need to have written to their several dedicated time for voice and dialect for a warm up. And that's crossing over for my interpreters or my conference compensator peers, rather, and also my corporate people or people who aren't actors.

What people in the real world normally forget is actors. Actors rehearse, actors warm up. You're doing yourself a disservice. [00:18:30] On that big presentation, not giving yourself that 10 minutes to warm up. And then it's about how do you ground yourself in the moment with the stressful situation, as you said. Yes. Maybe you don't have time to go. Hold on. Let me take fifteen minutes and do a breathing exercise. But what you can do. One. Here's a great one. Talk to me. By whom? By voice coach called [00:19:00] Barbara Houseman in London. Is the idea of this is taken from. Just don't quote me on this, but the idea of a backwards circle.

Yes, I photocell.

Yes, you can have. Even if you have like a pen. I don't have a pen sitting there. But you have a pen and you just slowly roll it backwards towards you. Yeah. Exactly. Oh, I say. OK. Or [00:19:30] if you have a ring, even you can just slowly kind of bring the ring backwards towards you. And it's a real sense of check in with yourself and then sends your energy back out to the other person. So three. And then connect. Right. So your ex constantly reground in your cell and re sending your energy back out backwards [00:20:00] circle idea. I really love the backwards surprise. It's still. That was two years ago. So, yeah.

And it's surprising that these simple techniques often work so incredibly well. Once you let them do that job, basically, and don't think that's just as a trick stuff, but very often it does. It doesn't work really well. So, yeah, give that a try. Exactly. I got a comment here from Marcus who said that in interpreting studies, you know, voice or [00:20:30] voice coaching very often isn't really a thing. We have some voice coaching where I work very occasionally only. But it's true that it's not really part of not really part of interpreting studies. What I did in university is what it was. I sang in the choir. And then there we had some sort of singing lessons and voice warm ups and all that stuff. And that helped me an awful lot, too. Yeah, I guess just be more connected to my voice. I don't know if that's sort of part of what you call the embodied voice, Rebecca. [00:21:00] If not, maybe maybe take us a little bit just into that subject or that that concept, I guess. And what that means, they embody it voices. Is it about being more connected with your voice and being in control, I guess, or using it properly?

That's a great question. I embodied embodied. I mean, I throw that word around so much. To me, it just feels. I suppose [00:21:30] it's like. After you get done with the really great yoga class or or you use meditation or it's about feeling at home in your body, but also feeling like your voice is at home, in your body. It's it's settled. It's it's being produced by all of the muscles of your body, your breath of your body. And it's fully [00:22:00] realized it's a holistic picture as opposed to oftentimes we think, the voices here at our throat. But finding the sense of the power of the boys comes actually from underneath. Your diaphragm is exactly deep abdominal muscles. All of that is working, comes up, you know, your your trachea through your your larynx, vibrating your vocal folds and then being shaped by your mouth that it's really a full [00:22:30] body picture, not just a point at the neck. That's my voice. Fiction.

Yeah. What's like an instrument? Right. And the instrument is also not just whether what the sound comes out, but there's much more sort of behind it producing on that sound. Yeah, exactly. And another concept that I learned from you, but also has a soul from a friend I once was, the whole concept of breath work. What does that entail? Is that about sort of techniques you can use breathing techniques or is is that says some spirituality to that as well? [00:23:00] Because it sounds like it's very intense. I guess that would work there, I think implies that. I'm not sure.

Well, breath work as it's currently being used, normally refers to something like Hollard Tropic Breath Work or transformational breathing. It's not so much for voice work. Now, I've done Breth work before and it is quite intense. You're essentially kind [00:23:30] of putting yourself in a hyperventilate, hyperventilating state. It's not considered dangerous, but you should tell it like it. I see. I've done it, done it multiple times and I haven't died yet.

Yeah. Thank God.

But you will go into a a trick like state and it may, you [00:24:00] know, illuminate parts of your unconsciousness just as a as a trip on some sort of drug might do that that you weren't aware of in the past. So I often recommend breath work. I don't do breath word. Personally, I'm not a trained breastwork person. I do it as in I see someone who facilitates it with me, but I don't. I'm not a facilitator, so I've recommended Brek breath work before [00:24:30] to clients. But it's really more, I would say, a therapeutic and kind of exploratory system of working versus that it's automatically going to impact on the voice. But if someone has a lot of breathing issues or breathing holes that seem very psychological. Breath work can be wonderful.

Yeah, we had a comment here from Alison. She [00:25:00] was asking whether it's like circular breathing with an instrument, which is something that I've heard of in the in the context of a didgeridoo, I think is that apparently it's a very sophisticated breathing technique where you kind of breathe in and out at the same. Well, I don't know if it's not I don't think it's possible at the same time, but it's sort of a fluid, circular breathing side. I don't know if you can if you can speak to that. If I kind of like the idea. And certainly, I suppose playing an instrument, especially a wind instrument, would would certainly help with having very good breathing [00:25:30] technique, I suppose. I don't know if you play any instruments.

So if I do, I play I mostly play piano. I did place flute style like a real slow you down, Ibram.

I played the flute like a proper friend, not a recorder, but I've played a proper flute from the age of about eleven to fifteen. And then I was right now. But I've continued to play piano instruments. Yeah, lovely way to work [00:26:00] breath as well. But the key is, is figuring out how can you switch oh. Over from the breath work that you've attained through the the instrument into your speaking. I've had people who have amazing capacity, breath capacity that I've worked with but just don't quite know how to use that capacity in their speaking voice. And one, that connection is made. They are there. [00:26:30] You know, they already have all of that. Expansiveness, but the connection needs to be made first. Know?

But I think once you have that, when it clicks, that must be. Yeah, that must be amazing. Huffing And Allison followed up and said, yeah, it helps to last longer with a sentence. So I suppose it's just it's about stamina and and being made. I think you called it just sustaining sustaining voice or voice use, I guess. So that's I think where we're breathing comes in handy as well. [00:27:00] Absolutely. I noticed in one of your own newsletters that you said that my actors, again, I love how you say that my actors may be surprised to learn that the voice a coach can get a sense of their mental state just through tuning in with the actors breath quality. I think that's what you said earlier, right, that they you know, obviously people bring along baggage and just from how they breathe well, or maybe not so well, you know, maybe that tense. You can already tell a lot about the person you're working [00:27:30] with. Thanks.

Certainly, certainly, I have been in classrooms, drama school classrooms before, and you just think, OK, that person's a control freak. That person is not confident. That person is trying to pretend like they're competent and it's all through the breathing.

Yeah, yeah, you can really. Once, once, once you're in, you're taught, you're recognized, [00:28:00] and you can really get a sense it's other people. Yeah.

Yeah. Do you find the same to be true for how people speak? That voice quality is that you can you think you can tell a lot about a person by the way they're speaking like, you know, if I might make nasally or very, very uptight or maybe I find myself often projecting downwards without really noticing it, especially on Zoome, by the way. And then just listening back and saying careful with your voice. But but I suppose you as a professional, you can read [00:28:30] a lot from that country.

The voice is just a part of the body. So whatever tensions that are coming there, they are illuminating certain things that are that are popping up there. They're obviously the extreme examples. There's the example of maybe a female who sounds quite a little girlish and maybe is is unconsciously resisting becoming [00:29:00] a woman.

You've got the extreme examples of of people completely falling off their voice, not committing to what they're saying. But she wants to have the less extreme examples, just the little holes in the back of the tongue that might have been, you know, or someone who didn't want to cry. And it's holding their attention oftentimes. That's very smart. I've noticed [00:29:30] it's very smart.

People are usually intelligent people. And it's like the last form of control out of their mouth that they can control the words before they leave them out very unconscious. Again, we're none of us are doing this by making the choice that we're doing. It's just the habit that we have because of the what has gone on in our brain.

Yeah, absolutely. That's that's a great a great point. I guess it's it's almost a little bit like a handshake. You know, you [00:30:00] can you can tell a lot from a handshake, whether it's one of these sort of soft, awful handshakes. I mean, you know, back in the day when we're so used to date, used to do handshakes, I guess, you know, that was a good commentated. Did you. Have you ever worked with interpreters in terms of voice coaching or not yet?

I have worked with interpreters. Yeah. Yeah. And it's it's mostly about if they're if they're conference interpreters, it's it's about dealing with how to deal with the microphone, really. [00:30:30] I like my technique and stuff like that. Well, I don't quite teach Mike technique, but he could not. Yeah. How not to lose your voice, Mike. And a lot of that is posturing. Finding good breathing even when you are sitting and speaking to a mike as opposed to a real person.

Yeah. So it's that the ski jumper problem, I think, and or maybe slouching. And I just like sitting like this because [00:31:00] we spend so much time sitting.

Yeah.

No, well I was saying as we slouch, we just lose connection to all of the deeper muscles of breathing. So we're done. You're going into taking top up breaths, really. And a lot of times then we're we're kind of pressing with your muscles in and around the larynx to create any type of power because we just have lost control of anything below the level of the lungs. Yeah.

And I suppose [00:31:30] similar things happen in video, cause I think you you mentioned that earlier, is that that it's just very difficult for people to to use to use the proper level of voice. I guess maybe maybe in terms of volume or loudness you're projecting. Right. I have people in my household who you can hear throughout the house when they're on the video call. And I say that's not necessary. The microphone is good enough. You don't have to be quite that loud. So is that something that's something that [00:32:00] you work on as well? I suppose is is how to work with the mike and not, I don't know, not against the mike or not trying to scream through the through the glass pane that separates us from the delegates.

Exactly. Exactly. And currently, since everything is on Zoome, my sessions and also people's work is on sume. People and clients are seeing the changes quicker in a way because they're immediately [00:32:30] having to use the techniques that we used over zoom over zoom.

So it's kind of an exact, an exact match as opposed to. Normally, of course you would be in my small space working and then they'd have to go out and maybe give a presentation or actually be in the interpreting booth or or whatnot. And it might be a or slightly different. But now it's it's exactly the same. And also, the positives of Zoom, if I can give some some positives, [00:33:00] is that we can record and and so clients can listen back in real time and hear the changes and since those changes and can work from the recording as well.

Yeah. Just to go back to two exercises I suppose. Yeah, that's very useful indeed. I was going to ask another thing. Oh that's right, I did. Did you get requests from from some of the interpreters you worked with also about Nikki called it accent [00:33:30] enhancement techniques. I don't know if she was referring to the same thing or accent removal or that kind of thing, because he said he sometimes works in sort of a multilingual context, as well as reducing non native speaker accent or markers. Is that what you had with interpreters as well, or was it mostly about voice?

It wasn't so much with interpreters, but I've done a lot a lot of work with multilingual, both actors and non actors [00:34:00] on it, sounding clear and confident in English. I hate the term accent reduction.

I know. That's why I wouldn't want to see it. Yes.

Well, we. We. We don't want to like voice coaches, we don't want to reduce any part of you and and where you coming from? Instead, we want to be sure that you are not only competent in English, but clear in English. And a lot of times that's just understanding that English [00:34:30] has some sounds that are different from every language. Annoyingly common doesn't say that yet.

So you're based in London. So you'll have a lot of international clients, I suppose, who are trying to just fit in or just just advance the local labor market, right?

Yeah, yeah. Certainly. And certainly they feel like maybe that there's there's some sort of stigma against them because they're they don't speak British [00:35:00] English. Now, of course, I'm American, so I'm not normally working towards British English. I can if people request it, but I'm I'm more interested with my non actors that that the client ultimately is clear and competent members are my my to go to words.

Yeah. I think that makes a lot of sense because as you said, Xand has so many negative connotations or used to have it. I get the impression it's changing a little bit at least. But it's a big topic for interpreters as well, [00:35:30] especially if you work into a language that is not your native language. That's what Nic said, those losing your native accent in the foreign language. Sometimes it's just very difficult to do. And I'm not sure if it's always the desired outcome necessarily. I mean, as you said, if it's clear and sorry, what was the other word? You it's so clear and confident.

Confident using the language.

Exactly. I think if you can if you can get to that stage, I think that's already very good. And maybe it's not even necessary to get rid of your native accent, [00:36:00] like 100 percent, if that's even possible. And then even, you know, as you just said, so does American English and British Airways and of course, a lot of different, let's say, phonetic varieties in those two big groups. I mean, there's so many different American accents, so many different English accents on the British Isles. So I, I find that the whole concept of accent increasingly difficult to handle. And I know we did a whole episode about that, so we don't have to revisit all of that. But let's say you have somebody who is really [00:36:30] determined to to lose that accent. Is that is that something you would try to talk them out of? Or maybe just say, OK, we can maybe do some of that, but you don't need to do it.

Don't need to get rid of everything. And maybe it's not even possible. I don't know.

I try to be very honest upfront. And now currently which Zoome I'm I'm asking people to record themselves often if they if they are coming with I need to completely get rid of my accent. [00:37:00] I'm asking them to record themselves in advance. There are some actors that have very good ears, even if they're in a second language. I worked with the Swedish actors yesterday. Amazing. You're nearly American there. And. And there was like a few little tweaks and and she sounded great. And then I worked with another actor today who's two to a couple different actors today who are working and from different languages. And, [00:37:30] you know, we're of the mind. This is going to be a competence and clarity.

Situation. And they're aware that you can lose an accent, certainly take it just takes different lengths of time for different people.

Yeah. And I guess it's something that gets difficult. The older you are, is that similar to language learning? It's just more difficult to. Because I think that's that's to some extent that is really related to hearing. At some point you just don't [00:38:00] pick up the fine nuances anymore. I'm not sure if I'm rendering the research properly, but it may be something that is just very difficult at a certain point. Just like learning a foreign language.

Well, we do we do start to shut off just the ability to hear certain sounds, even from age two or so. We're so focused on the language that we're being taught that that certain sounds, we just can't hear them. I'm dying [00:38:30] to do this thing in Paris called Tell My Teacher. You ever heard of Tohmatsu?

Yes, I have. Yeah. That's on my topic list, actually. But yeah, we can go into that right now because I know an interpreter who does courses are Finckel who works with a tumor technique in Cologne.

But yeah, maybe you can tell people briefly what what it's about who Tomatis was.

Well. Yeah. So. Well, of course I would say too modest. But Giamatti is I suppose he was a [00:39:00] kind of a she of an ear researcher and scientist and and was fascinated by by how the ear can perceive certain sounds. And so the my teats out of parents right now, it's at a place called High called Slow Tycho's Long. So I'm giving them a big plug right now. But I suppose they they need or don't need counseling. And it's [00:39:30] essentially ear training of a language. And so the idea is that your your inner ear is actually kind of shaped or gets shaped by the sounds that you hear when you're very young. And so you hear those sounds much easier. But, you know, there's there's some there there's certain sounds in other languages that maybe your language doesn't have. And they're very hard to hear, I think, versus one vowel in Estonian [00:40:00] that is like, I can't even do it.

Or or I sound like I'm choking on myself. I've tried to get this vowel in Estonian and I will never happen for RH, but I my ear cannot really hear it. If you cannot hear a sound, you cannot reproduce that sound. So the tonality system is about re training your ear to pick up these new frequencies.

It's amazing. I would love to do.

Yeah. Do you know how that works in practice?

Do [00:40:30] they do you do exercises or do do they make you listen to certain sounds or they make you listen to quite a bit of music at the frequency of the language that you're trying to go towards? Then they make you listen to speakers, but they're kind of the speakers have been modulated. So to bring speakers in your target language, but the speakers maybe have been modulated so you can start to pick up these frequencies and then you're doing at least a Tycho's long. Then you're also Durants kind of standard language classes with [00:41:00] the teacher where you're speaking and listening and responding.

Interesting. I wanted to pick up on one of the questions here from Allison, which she asks whether we should chat the voice style of the speaker as interpreters. Maybe we can just open up the question a little bit and ask you in your practice, how much is sort of when, when, when? I think when clients are aiming at a particular X and how much is there any sort of work you do [00:41:30] in having them? I guess just shadow that. Just imitate that sort of help them get there. Or is that not a good way of going about things, terms of getting to a particular accent? You know, just a silly example. If I wanted to speak like Dick Van Dike and Mary Poppins, it's a good idea to just wait and watch the movie and then just shadow micas.

Well, funny enough, I do quite a bit of mimicking work, but I call it conscious mimicking. I'd love using garage [00:42:00] band and and I'll take a speaker like, let's say a native speaker, and I'll I'll break them up into small little clips and I'll actually have a client who's with me. Consciously mimicking that person. And it kind of acts as a as an ear training exercise, but also a little bit of like a springboard to get the person and the accent you'll feel as you do it. You know, your mouth has to kind [00:42:30] of change shape your pronunciation to have to change, shape your overall. Stressing changes. And so you can start to sense the language and the accent and how the balloting slowed the intonation patterns. So I'm not against the conscious mimicking, but I do know that, you know, it it's it's just a springboard into the place that you want to go.

Is it. Is it similar with music?

You have people look, if they're into that singing in the [00:43:00] target language, I guess target accent maybe because I found that the music always helped me in language learning when it comes to, you know, getting good pronunciation and just, you know, especially in French, like winter singing French. It makes it easier to sort of get the liaison and stuff like that. Right. Is that something that you use as a tool at all? You know, you giving you play an instrument.

Many people find it easier to sing in a foreign language or to sing [00:43:30] it in a different accent than they do to speak in it.

Yeah. Exactly.

Possibly that's because the vowel sounds and singing are longer. So, you know, you kind of have more time to get into the words. But I think singing is wonderful. And then, you know, you can go singing into into speaking. You can start by singing and then you can speak. Sure. Oftentimes with speaking coaching, especially for people on this call maybe [00:44:00] are going, oh, I hate singing, I don't wanna sing. But with the singing coaching, we do a lot of toning.

So that's just singing on one note. Exactly. So you can switch.

Yeah, absolutely. I think that's super helpful. So I just shared the link to your vocal warm up on YouTube, if you want to check that out after after the call or maybe tomorrow, although you could do that anytime of the day. So I guess because we are different questions for breathing exercises, invite voice exercises, but I think it's difficult to to [00:44:30] take the two apart. Right. I think it sort of flows into each other end because breath and voice are just so interrelated. So you can't just do one or the other, I suppose. Is that correct?

I would say that's true. But I would say that we kind of when we're looking at creating a warm we're first looking at body and breath. So it's like if you can do nothing else before presentation, before a conference, stupid thing, before you go wherever you are. Start with the body [00:45:00] in the breath and then extend that out onto a little bit of. For instance, when. But but certainly they're completely interrelated.

You can't have you can't have a free and open voice without a free, open and supportive breast.

Yeah, that's a good point. Exactly. And I guess on on a related note, do you give to give advice to clients in terms of diet as well? Because I know my singing teacher at least was very, [00:45:30] very particular and sort of what she would allow us to to drink. For example, before they so this was about musical performances or what we were allowed to drink. It was always supposed to was always it had to be flat water, so no sparkling water and all that kind of stuff. Is that more like personal preference or is that some actual science as opposed to something from your experience that sort of tells you what what people should drink to, for example, before before a big presentation? You know, because for us it was. Yeah, still [00:46:00] water. Definitely no milk, because apparently milk's very bad over the fat sort of sticks to you. I don't have your voice for. So I don't know. Is there is there any any advice you can give us on that and proper diet and.

Well fluids, fluids as you know is number one. People often think for some reason that the fluid liquid that you take in actually touches the vocal folds. It doesn't. That is a that is something that is [00:46:30] this is a myth. But what it does is that it hydrates you, that fluids hydrate you from the inside out. So it's actually going into your body and then hydrating all of the tissues of your body, including your vocal. So still, water is like the go to any type of of herbal teas and not too, too, too hot and no problem.

All right. Does that peppermint apparently [00:47:00] is bad? Is that true? Is that a myth as well? Somebody help me peplum. It's not good for voice. I don't know if that's true.

Keep in mind that you're awesome. We're also going to be dealing with every individuals a little bit different. You know, on the whole, I would say try to avoid caffeine, you know, an hour before you could solve your morning coffee. But, you know, an hour before, I don't know, I don't kick Drechsel the caffeine. But everyone's different. I say, you know, avoid avoid [00:47:30] foods that give you indigestion or heartburn.

But for people, that's going to be, you know, that's going to be different for different people. Yeah, it actually works. So certainly avoid the foods to give you indigestion and heartburn because the acid does actually touch your vocal folds that way up. Coming up the wrong way. Yeah. You will touch. Yeah. Yeah. Delta liquid going in your kitchen. Your mouth does not touch your vocal folds directly. [00:48:00] But the the acid coming out does that. That's extremely important, actually. You know, you do not want to kick off any type of heartburn or indigestion.

No, definitely not. Yeah. I mean, we do we talked about accent a little bit. But since Nick was asking about accent enhancement techniques, what will be a good, good way to people? Just start if they wanted to reduce their accent. I suppose this is a foreign language. Are there any easy enough? [00:48:30] Easy. Any good tips to just start out reducing that? Would you. Would you say that? Mimicking is one option.

I mean, for somebody who maybe isn't working with a professional like you yet, making certainly is is a good place to start. Because as I said before, you can't reproduce. It sounds you can't hear. So you want to start really immersing himself in the language and in the target accent right off the bat and then getting it into your own voice is is important, too.

So not just kind of a passive [00:49:00] listening, but also the active listening or not the kind of conscious mimicking with that often times I find with multilingual speakers.

And this varies. This isn't this isn't everyone.

But in an attempt to sound kind of casual in their language, they're barely opening their mouth, which is great for off here, isn't it?

It [00:49:30] could be up. Yeah. No. For other languages or other varieties, but.

Well, what's funny is, although the LRP maybe doesn't open, it's not quite as bit as quite as fit as American English. Arpey is very specific with consonants. So I often get multilingual speakers to get a wine cork, have a wine cork and practice with a wine cork in the mouth is quite old school. And [00:50:00] it's been kind of shunned for a while.

Too controversial. Yeah.

No bone props.

I find it really useful. Yes, I do. You have to be using it with some good technique. You know, you don't want to be biting into the cork. You don't want any extra tension in your neck or your job. Yeah. Yeah. It's just to kind of. I'm doing it on my thumb. It's just just to kind of rest in between multi.

And [00:50:30] then speaker something speaker, text speaker and a news article, and it just engages all of those sounds as consonants in the vowel sounds in the language. Then take it out and speak normal and you'll be that much more clear. Really?

Yeah. It really does help you. I know. I think I've read that. Probably knew that it wasn't on Usenet. Well, I think that it's a bit controversial, but it can be used anyway. I just recently read about that. I heard about that somewhere in Canada.

But it [00:51:00] can't be controversial. Yeah. Yeah.

But I read the German actor who. Mumbled No.

That's mean to say he did not mumble his way through his entire career. He mumbled a lot of his work for his entire career and then found the court. And he's a he's a big believer.

Oh, that's fantastic. So I'm glad he's open to that. You know, after a long time, he carries it around. Awesome.

Yeah, that's great. So [00:51:30] maybe one last thing here. I took a question from a listener about I guess it's about being, should you say, short of breath or just stuffing, having a difficulty to catch their breath, especially while simultaneous interpreting.

Are there any suggestions you have there? I suppose it's similar when you're nervous, maybe doing a big presentation and you're kind of sort of almost hyperventilating, I guess. Maybe not quite as extreme. But is there is there a good counter technique?

I think well, [00:52:00] and I remember that this question also, I think the person had mentioned that they on top of it had a deviated septum. And so it's going to be hard to breathe through their nose anyway. With that being said, you know, not to say that the. Mouth breathing is not bad. It's not incorrect. That person needed to shift from breathing through their nose to their mouth. I don't see that as a [00:52:30] big issue. The key really would be what's beyond not being able to breathe through your nose, your mouth. Is it that in that tense situation. They're holding their breath completely unconsciously? Is it that they're kind of not attaching one breath per thought? You know, maybe accidentally extending that and then finding themselves caught out later and needing to take a top up breath in the middle [00:53:00] of the song?

So it would be something to look into and then if someone does have a deviated septum, I, you know, go and see maybe an ear, nose, throat doctor or or a speech language therapist just to get that checked out.

If if it's if it's really affecting the the way that they're their. Performing are the words that they think of, like they can do their job.

Maybe now's a good time to do that, you know, given [00:53:30] that we have just have less unfortunately less work, less work to do. So, that could be a good time to do that as well. Listen, I want to be respectful of your time. I have plenty of more questions, but maybe we can just do a follow up session at that point. But I would certainly recommend people check out your Web site. It's a Rebecca Goss' now dot com.

Yeah, I think it's just my surname dot com or just the sun.

Okay. So I'll make sure to put in the links and I really recommend you sign up to the newsletter [00:54:00] as well. I had some some very good tips on it and yeah, maybe we can get some of our interpreters your way for some Zoome lessons or something like that.

And yeah, I certainly hope that the current situation will get to an end eventually so we can get to some kind of normalcy, I guess. So do you have any plans when you're going back to London or are you staying staying put for the moment?

Currently playing it day by day, I'm very [00:54:30] happy in France right now, Europe seems a little bit good place to be these days.

Yeah, it's the end. There's a quarantine in place now. Right. So if you go back, you have stayed home for two weeks. Is that still a thing?

Apparently. Yeah, I think that's that's still something. Of course, everything's changing day by day. So that's what that will look like next week or the week after.

Yeah, exactly. We'll just play by you. As you said, I believe I eternity's to India. Exactly. So [00:55:00] thanks so much, Rebecca, for being so generous with your with your time and your advice. I really appreciate it. And I believe so do the listeners. And I guess stay safe, everyone. And I hope to talk to you very soon. I'm going to end the session here.