53: Starting Out In The Profession Alex D: So hello and welcome to Troublesome Terps, the podcast about topics that keep interpreters up at night. And today we are going to be talking about a topic that is probably keeping a lot of people up at night at the moment is how to start out as an interpreter. We're also streaming this live at the moment, YouTube. So a very friendly hello to everyone who is joining us at the moment. And, of course, hello to my lovely co-host. First of all, hello to Sarah Hicky. How are you tonight? Sarah: Hey, everyone, yeah, I'm good at keeping busy after having moved to Germany and Alex D: Never Sarah: A lot of Alex D: A dull Sarah: Other things. Alex D: Day. Sarah: Yeah, exactly. Never a dull day, but yeah, excited to be here because I missed the last episode, so it's good to be back. Alex G: And we missed you in the last episode of Well. Alex D: Absolutely, absolutely. And you heard his dulcet tones already. That's Alexander Gansmeier at the busy, the busy interpreter joining us from Munich. Hello. Alex G: Hello, this is Alex with which language may seduce you today? Alex D: Yes. Alex G: This is a little bit of an insider, but it's great to be here. It's kind of weird that we're streaming this live. Alex D: Yeah, Alex G: I don't know. Alex D: It is, but a lot of fun, Alex G: It Alex D: So I'm Alex G: Is. Alex D: Just I'm keeping half an eye and actually a full eye on the on the chat, so if you want to contribute in the chat, feel free to do so. So that's I think there's a good occasion to say thank you to everyone who did contribute to our little collection exercise. Alex G: Absolutely. Alex D: Before this show, we were asking you on social media for your experience, for your tips, your tricks, the things that were surprising when you started as an interpreter. So we're going to get to that. We have a long a long list of very interesting stuff that we want Alex G: A Alex D: To Alex G: Very Alex D: Get Alex G: Long list Alex D: To. Yes. So Alex G: With Alex D: It's Alex G: A Alex D: Great. Alex G: Lot Alex D: We Alex G: Of Alex D: Should Alex G: Contributions. Alex D: Again, this is probably something we should do more often is just ask people for their input, because it's really great to to hear from you. And it feels less like we're in in a bit of an echo chamber. Yes. Walking, talking just among ourselves, which is great, too. So that that is fine. But. Oh, yes. Jonathan, let's let's bring Jonathan in Sarah: It's perfect timing. Alex D: And we'll we'll put him on the spot right away, I guess, or we can start. And so he can just ease his way into the show. No. There he is. Alex G: There Alex D: Huh. Alex G: He goes, Jonathan is connecting to audio hello. Jonathan. Alex D: Good evening. Jonathan: They're. Alex G: So what do you think? Yes or no? Jonathan: Yes or no to what? Alex G: I don't know, we just tried to put you on this, but Alex D: Yeah, just say yes or no, Alex G: You just say yes or no. It's a very simple question. Alex D: The good the good thing is we Alex G: That Alex D: Already Alex G: Is a Alex D: Did Alex G: Correct Alex D: The intro Alex G: Answer. Alex D: And everything so we can jump right in, but we'll leave you. We'll leave you. We'll give you a little bit of time to to breathe. And we we were going to start actually with a little bit of a look back in time, a jump back in time and just talk about how we actually started out. And I think so we agreed that you were going to go first. So why don't you give us your InterpretBank origin story in Sarah: Ok, Alex D: A few words? Sarah: Sure. I was just thinking that maybe I'm not even the best person to talk about this because I've probably done the least interpreting out of all of us. Well, it's not probably. Definitely, but. So Alex D: It's not a contest, don't worry. Sarah: You're OK now, but, Jonathan: I'm Sarah: Um. Jonathan: Sure as. Alex G: It easy for Alex to say he's done clearly the most. So, you know. Sarah: Yes, um, but yeah, so I did my Masters in conference InterpretBank and go away at NYG, which was amazing. And then essentially as soon as I finished, I had to go back to my old job working in customer service because I was pretty broke after being a student for a year. And, you know, it takes a while to get jobs. And then, well, I was based in Ireland at the time. And of course, there's some demand for my language combination, which is German A, English B, but it's maybe not the most hopping market for that. So it was a bit slow in the beginning. There were some requests coming in and I lost a bunch of assignments due to price because, you know, I guess that's, you know, something you have to but everyone has to deal with. But it was hard because I couldn't wait to get started and I was really excited that some exciting assignments came away. But then I also didn't want to budge on price because, you know, this is something, I guess we were told the whole time in the InterpretBank class and which is also, I think the right thing to do is to not, you know, undercut and ruin the market and then to better wait until something something else comes around, which took a while. And in the end, I got my first gig then through one of my former teachers, and he was excited that there was that he had a partner know it to work with. So it worked out pretty well for both of us. Yeah. And so it was very difficult, I think, to get started if I wanted to just be an interpreter, to be honest. But yeah, well, a few months after my degree, I got offered a job doing research, interpreting research. So Alex D: And the rest is history, Sarah: I Alex D: As they Sarah: Yeah. Alex D: Say. Sarah: Pretty much because. Alex G: Global head of interpreting research extraordinaire. Sarah: Yeah. And I mean I can still interpret while working for a Nimdzi, I have that flexibility and it's also, you know, encouraged, which is really nice. But yeah, since then I've basically just been occupied with Nimdzi to be honest, except maybe every now and again now that I move back to Germany, I would actually love to try and get into the market here because from what I want, from what everyone's told me, German English is the combination on the market here. So Alex D: Pretty Sarah: And Alex D: Much right Sarah: Yeah, Alex D: Now. Sarah: And I still love Alex G: Sounds Sarah: Interpretbank. Alex G: About right. Sarah: So it's I would like to do it more again and. Yeah, but I think it's really it was very difficult to even get the first assignment in Ireland and to not, you know, to kind of stand your ground, to set yourself up professionally, to not undercards, just to get the first job. It's difficult because I think there's so much you're being told about, oh, you know, don't make this wrong move and don't make this wrong move, you know? And everyone's like, it's such a small community can make one mistake. This is your reputation ruined forever. You and I get it, you know, fresh out of the university saying, oh, my God. Alex G: Yeah, totally. Alex D: But Sarah: Yeah. Alex D: It's interesting to me that you mention the sort of a strong role of your teachers helping you get a foot in the door as well, because that was certainly something that we got in a lot of the replies from the listeners that there is. And we asked some of the teachers as well for their input. So there were a lot of comments to the effect of, you know, don't be afraid to ask your teachers for help, because I think it's I don't know if you can confirm this, but when you start university, I get a lot of advice on your technique and how to do proper interpreting language stuff and note-taking skills and what have you. But sometimes there isn't really enough time about the whole business stuff and you know how to start Alex G: Right. Alex D: Out. Right. And there's a lot of these things that are floating around is don't ruin the market. You know, don't don't push the prices too low. And I think it's very confusing at the beginning because you're so afraid of, as you just said, so afraid of possibly making mistakes and stuff like that. So I don't know what what was that like for you guys when you started out on the freelance market? Did you have that support from your teachers or was it more just you on your own? What did that feel like? Alex G: No, I think from my experience was sort of similar to to Sarah. I have to say, when I was in Munich, the language college, I got my first job from one of the teachers because they had a Spanish booth and an English booth and one of the English interpreters got second. And they just kind of brought me along on the ride. So everything was kind of already taken care of. And I just jumped into to fill that gap. And it was kind of nerve wracking, but really nice at the same time, actually working with your teachers. And yeah, they helped me throughout the entire process, you know, with preparation, with the invoicing, all of that. It was really it was a really nice and comfortable experience as a big first job. And then when I was in the UK, after I did my during doing my master's, we already got like a few jobs here and there, either from the faculty or from from some agencies in the U.K. I remember I was doing like some public service interpreting during that time as well, just because you tried it, like, you know, you do what you can. Alex G: And then I got really lucky because after I did the Masters, I was fortunate enough to teach at the university for a year, which, you know, I always like to joke. It kind of covered the basics like rent. And then with all the odd jobs that I got, I could pay for luxury like food. And yeah. And then slowly I just started building up the jobs. There was we did actually have a module business consultancy in in at university, which, you know, kind of was supposed to deal with all of those things. We had like checklists. If the client calls you, you need to check for this, this and this. We had a lot of very hands on things, but then still stuff like, you know, just very basic stuff that everybody has to do, like taxes or, you know, whatever it is, those kinds of things. You never limit university. You never learn in any school. They tell you, yeah, you going to have to do this. But then those things are just get on top of those quickly. That was like one of my my nightmare Alex D: Thinkorswim. Alex G: Things that I would sink or swim, Alex D: Yeah, but Alex G: Get Alex D: I guess Alex G: A Alex D: For Alex G: Tax Alex D: The tech stuff, Alex G: Advisor, Alex D: There's Alex G: Pay Alex D: There's Alex G: For Alex D: Other. Alex G: A tax adviser. Alex D: Yeah, exactly. How do you do Jonathan: Or Alex D: That? Or, you know, Jonathan: Just use online Alex D: There's. Jonathan: Or just use online accounting and see for yourself Alex D: Yeah. Jonathan: That they as soon as they discovered the service that does all my bookkeeping automatically for me and I just have to take the. That was correct. Alex G: Yeah, or Jonathan: That Alex G: That Jonathan: Changed things. It's worth. Alex G: Well, you know, back in my days, we didn't have the Internet. I'm just it's a joke is a joke. Jonathan: Yeah, but I would say to any students listening to this, it looks for some of these online accounting services, especially if you want, for example, I have to pay for the most expensive package because I accept transactions in four currencies. And I insist that my transfer wise, which is already with most of my foreign currency, is checked automatically. There's only one online service that will do that, and they will only do that on the most expensive package. But considering it's cut my annual accounting down from two to three days to an hour, Alex G: Yeah, Jonathan: I would say it's worth it. Alex G: It is totally worth it. I Alex D: But what Alex G: Totally agree. Alex D: Yeah, Jonathan, what what did what was the transition like for you from uni to the real life out there? Jonathan: Depressing, awful, so I kind of could have asked for help from my teachers and actually those are a tutor. I think I mentioned where a visiting guest and therapist are, who I think I mentioned that abbreviation, who is really helpful. But what happened to me, and I don't think I I've told the story is that we were we were told and it's true, there isn't enough work anywhere in the UK, really outside of London, that you can be just an interpreter. And even in, say, London, it can be tricky, apparently. And so we were advised that if you had French, the best thing to do is to say, you know, the French secretary. So I went to do that. The first and only project that I got offered through the secretariat clashed with with a trainer with something that I already had on so I couldn't take it. And ever since then, I've never heard from that secretariat. And so it was two years, about two years after I graduated, I got my first in-depth job. You know, I'd done a lot of translation work. I tried to do the whole part time thing, part time job thing. It just didn't work. And so my first two years were pretty awful, really. Jonathan: Eventually I got my first InterpretBank job, actually, because of a recommendation from a classmate. And I had the many, many panic attack in the booth in the first job, but eventually got through it. And then it was quite another few months before I got the second one is just because it's such a quiet market. But on the other hand, because I realized from day one that, you know, unless we were going to move to France, which for various reasons was on the cards, then I was going to have to learn to do other things anyway. Although the first two to three years were absolutely horrible and I made some mistakes and things, they taught me a lot more about kind of finding other ways of earning money and what other skills I had than I would have learned in another market. I'm kind of glad of that because when you get things like Brexit hitting or covid that and it's not the entire thing is my only source of income. So I can, you know, income drops, but it doesn't drop as much as if I'd been like a 100 percent interpreter. And suddenly, Corver, that. Alex G: But can I just because I was talking to a friend of mine about that exact situation, because my only source of income is InterpretBank, and in the beginning, you know, March was everyone everything got canceled. This has nothing to do with the topic. So maybe I'm sorry for all the people live. You're Alex D: You're Alex G: Going to have Alex D: On Alex G: To Alex D: The right Alex G: Sit Alex D: Show, Alex G: Through this. Alex D: Alex. Alex G: Yeah, you're on the right show. But we can cut this up for the episode. But when covid hit in the beginning, you know, especially in April, there were no bookings. So I was really worried about that. You know, you have savings and you can weather the storm. And we were talking about whether it's smart to just focus on interpreting, because I have to say that I bounced back quite nicely, like I'm pretty happy with where I'm at right now and also how quickly things have changed again for the clients that I have. And I completely attribute that to the fact that this is all I do. Like I work with them. I'm here for them. You know, I organized stuff for them. I organized teams for them. And so I had that kind of going forward. Whereas on the flip side, if you have a side job, you have that security. So I think there's like two ways of looking at it. Do you know what I mean? Like, does it make any sense? Jonathan: I think, you know, I think one thing I've noticed is because I always had to do InterpretBank and as I think 90 percent of the InterpretBank 90 you have to do, I had the opportunity to do other stuff. And so, like the consulting side of interpreting, I naturally find it easier because I was used to having to build things together. And also I was used to negotiating with magazine editors and with publishers. So when a client comes in and says, can you have it? Can I have X, I'm quite happy to sit and explain why where you can't have X, but I can give you Y. You know, that negotiation stuff is something that I got used to doing, whereas I think if I'd just gone through the Aymond and I don't know if I would have become a consultant interpreter if I, if I hadn't had to diversify from the beginning and also if I hadn't gone into research as well, I'm not sure if I'd become if I had become a consultant interpreter. Alex G: But I think that's a really good thing that to bring this up, because I think so I became a consultant interpreter kind of by accident, just because, you know, the jobs that I the few jobs that I got in the beginning always kind of required some finagling and like arranging stuff and organizing stuff, you know, was never like a nice job that was presented on a platter that came very few and far between. So I was just kind of had to figure it out. And I just you just kind of I just kind of slid into becoming the consultant by accident just because it's what you kind of had to do. You know, you had to always arrange the equipment and the booth made and whatever. And, you know, over time it kind of scaled up. And what I would like to say to people out there who are listening to this, who are just starting out, don't be afraid to take on these jobs. I had no idea what I was doing in the beginning. You know, they called me and I was like they were like, I don't know. We need for both Chinese, Korean, French and English. And I was like, sure, no problem, let's do it. And then they hung up the phone and then I had a panic attack and I was like, OK, let's do this. We're going to do this somehow. Somehow it's going to work. And it always worked. And I think we're sure we'll come to that later again. And Jonathan, you also said it and Sarasota and it's very true. Don't be afraid to ask people for help. You know, if you're a little bit in over your head or if you're wondering, should I do A, should I do B, there's tons of people who are who are happy to help you, whether it's your teachers or your in, I don't know, a mentoring scheme or whether it's us. Send an email to Troublesome Terps dot com or whatever, you know. Jonathan: I would also say things like, don't be afraid to go and learn other stuff. One thing that I wish we had been taught at university is your knowledge of the business world is as important as your knowledge of InterpretBank. So your knowledge of how contracts work and knowledge of how agreements work, you know, some jobs, you know, you have to have every single booth filled before you send the court other jobs. You know, you can send the call because you know who you know, the list of people you're going to get. You know how much you know is fine. And also, the one thing that I wish I had learned earlier, which I'm only just learning the importance of just now, is, for goodness sake, write down your procedures. Alex D: Hmmm, that's Jonathan: So Alex D: Kind Jonathan: If Alex D: Of the Jonathan: You Alex D: Checklist Jonathan: Have a certain procedure. Alex D: Thing I mentioned Jonathan: Yeah. Alex D: Earlier. Yeah. Jonathan: So I accidentally Alex G: That was invaluable. Jonathan: Messed up a quote. Alex G: Yeah. Jonathan: Well, I accidentally messed up a quote very, very recently and had to go back to the client. Thankfully, they had an additional question. So it was a nice opportunity to say I actually did a little bit more than that because I, I mess something up a bit. Now, I have a written procedure to check what I'm doing a court, because that was one one little thing that I forgot to check. So now I have a written procedure for it. So even if you like me and you like to do stuff free form and you don't like to be told what to do, write down your procedures, you will thank yourself later for it and put them all on your desktop just in a file marked quoting procedure or consulting procedure or just a file right there that you just open reflexively as a reflex to get everything right. Alex G: Alex, how did you get started? How was it for you, because you obviously had a very different thing going on than we did. Alex D: I have a very different thing going on, you know what I mean? I think it was the usual stuff to to some extent, because I did quite a bit of freelancing sort of already in university. So doing some small jobs at the university or maybe for small small companies on the side. And then mostly due to my language combination, I kind of ended up in the whole and the whole EU, I guess. So I had Romanian and that was kind of a language that was interesting to be institutions back then. So that's that's the direction I ended up going into. And usually, I guess the procedure is that you become a freelancer and you apply for an rotation test and then maybe you get invited and maybe it takes longer until you get invited in. In my case, because of the circumstances, simply, I went straight for a competition. So an actual test to become a staffer because they were looking for people with Romanian at the time, was just when Romania was about to join the EU and basically did it did it the wrong way round. So I went straight into the competition and somehow passed. Still don't know how. And then I freelance for a few months. I was on the list because of the successful competition and then, you know, just usually takes them a while. And until they figure out all the paperwork and then and then I became Stephan's, it was fairly straightforward in that way. And what I think is similar to the stories that you were telling is that I got a lot of support from from Great Teachers University. So I may have talked about my Romanian teacher, who I really still love because she had so much passion for the language. And she always she also sort of got me in that direction of going deeper with Romanian and then signing up for the competition and so on and so forth. So, yeah. So from from that perspective, I think it was maybe similar to to your story. I never had to get into the whole business of. Jonathan: The bonus of being a freelancer is if someone says to me, can you come to such and such a place and do a speech which is happening more and more at the moment, I can just say yes. And I've already got an account pocket that goes into it is not a problem, I'd imagine, for staffers. If someone says, can we pay you X number of euros to go and speak somewhere, then you have like a list of permissions. If someone says to me, can you go somewhere? I just go, Yeah, OK, Alex D: Or maybe you ask Jonathan: So Alex D: Your wife Jonathan: It's slow. Alex D: First. Alex G: Now. Jonathan: So what was so what was the family calenders clear Alex D: Yes, Jonathan: Is totally Alex D: Exactly, Jonathan: Fine Alex D: Exactly. Jonathan: And actually was with the increasing number of virtual staff, the only thing I have to work at and those that are in total IMAP times. Alex G: That's a good point. You know, Speaker, speaking of all the virtual stuff, I think it's actually a good Segway since we're announcing Segway. Alex D: Are we are we the. Alex G: Well, why Sarah: Very Alex G: Aren't Sarah: Good. Alex G: We into how things might be a little bit different if you're starting out as an interpreter in 2020? Because I think, you know, things might be a little bit different. I don't know. It's just a hunch. Alex D: Did anything happen? I don't know. What Alex G: I'm Alex D: Do Alex G: Not Alex D: You mean? Alex G: Sure. I don't think anything's happened. Alex D: Ok. Alex G: It's been very quiet lately. Yeah, so. Alex D: So I think we just have to establish when when did we all so I started at around 2005. So I guess that's 15 years already. Just so we have a baseline, what are we comparing 20 to? Alex G: I'm not sure we should disclose our ages here, this this kind of easy, Alex D: Not talking Alex G: You know? Alex D: Age, Alex G: Well, Alex D: You know. Alex G: It's easy to kind of. Jonathan: I if I officially started on my birthday in 2008. Alex D: Oh, that's fantastic. Sarah: Yeah, actually, my my first day of class for the Masters, I turned 30 that day Alex D: Great timing. Sarah: On the very first day. Yeah, Alex G: Wait, so am Sarah: Fantastic. Alex G: I the youngest, Sarah: Could not go out the night before. Alex G: I Alex D: It Alex G: Thought Sarah Alex D: Might be Alex G: Was Alex D: Alex. Alex G: The youngest. Sarah: Are you the youngest? I just look very young, you know, Alex G: You Sarah: But I'm Alex G: Do Sarah: Actually very old. Jonathan: I was Alex G: Owe. Jonathan: Going to say, did you finish your master's here? Sarah: Yeah, Alex G: Wow. Well, Sarah: Exactly. Alex G: I think I've been freelancing, I think I have my first job in 2010 or 2011, I think it was in 2011, so. Jonathan: Hmm. So, I mean, I now realize that I started freelancing in the middle of the credit crunch, which probably explains why things were so you know, so far my business has had the credit crunch, Brexit covid. Alex D: Oh, dear. I was just going to say, because Rebecca and Sonia were sharing in the chat as well, that 20/20 is easy to compare because they both started out during the last financial crisis. So around Alex G: Oh, Alex D: 2007, Alex G: Jesus, Alex D: 2008, Alex G: Out Alex D: It's a deja Alex G: That. Alex D: Vu Alex G: Yeah, Alex D: Like. Jonathan: But Alex G: Yeah. Jonathan: The thing is, the thing is about the last financial crisis, and this is something I'm only realizing now is in the last financial crisis, it was really easy to find the international sectors that were still growing, although InterpretBank rubbish. There were translation sectors that needed work. And so for a while I did a lot of CV translation and everyone was losing their jobs, which anyone who still does KVI translation. You have my deepest respect. And I did some legal work and I was told by my wife I wasn't a nice person if I was doing legal translation. So, you know, but yeah, it's 2020 is a hard time to start. But on the other hand, I would say in some senses the graduates know who are trained on the tech that didn't exist when we were training apart from USERRA, that didn't really exist and we were training. I actually think that they've got an advantage because they're probably natives in remote, simultaneous. Sarah: I would imagine that it helps, yeah, as well, I mean, during our training, we didn't do remote simultaneous, but we were introduced to InterpretBank from videos, for example. So that was like a first step in that direction. And from what I know, from what I've heard from NYG, of course, this year, they had to do a lot of remote work. I don't want to say the wrong thing, you know, but I think that's what I've heard, that there's been maybe a little bit of in class training and then a lot of remote work because, you know, and this is something I wanted to point out as well, because, of course, if you're talking about the financial crisis, of course, it's never good to start during a financial crisis, understandably, but at least the financial crisis, in a way, it touched like it didn't necessarily touch all areas of society. You know, it touched like the housing industry and the financial industry. And that had a knock on effect on all sorts of businesses, of course. But like the situation we're in right now is very affecting every aspect of life, you know, and then, like you said, you have the added challenge of now everything has to be remote, with few exceptions. So you also have to deal with new technologies. And so there's so much more to learn, probably on top of that now. Jonathan: I remember coming across a study and it surprised me it was in a business book and they said there was a couple of studies done by Ivy League universities and they found out that businesses that began during recessions tended to last longer and be more financially sound than businesses born during a boom time. Alex D: Mm Sarah: Makes Alex D: Hmm. Sarah: Sense. Alex D: Yeah. Jonathan: So you think about all the businesses that were started during the dot com bubble, like one or two percent of them survive more than a couple of years. The intent of those who are starting right now is going to be rough. But if you can build a business this year, there isn't much that is going to knock you back. Alex G: But Sonia in the YouTube comments just said something really, really interesting, and I completely agree with her, I think the people who are starting out now, they're not going to be that affected because this is the only market they know, you Alex D: It's Alex G: Know what I mean? Alex D: A Alex G: Like Alex D: It's Alex G: They're starting Alex D: A different Alex G: Out into Alex D: Baseline, Alex G: This Jonathan: Yeah. Alex G: Market. Alex D: Yeah, Alex G: It's Alex D: Exactly. Alex G: A different baseline. I think the people and she said this, so I didn't actually think it. She thought it. Thank you, Sonia. The people who started out two or three years ago who just found their footing. What does he say? They get the rug pulled out from under them? And that is exactly true. And I think that's really tricky. I think, though, there's a different challenge for the people who are starting out now or who are at university right now. And that's, I think, the kind of mindset challenge. I was talking to a friend of mine the other day who is who's a mentor in a mentoring program, and she's not the happiest person right now. So she's not exactly imparting a lot of enthusiasm and positivity and torment because she's like, well, I'm not getting any jobs by my by my sugarcoating it. You know, if I can find another job like this is great at the moment. And I'm like, well, I see why you would say that, because you don't want to sugarcoat it. But then on the flipside, you also don't want to be like find something else to do. This is doomed, you know. So I think they have to do with that. I think once they make that through, I think Sonia is right. Like, this is the only market they they know they will hear of the good old times, as we always do when interpreters were flown in, you know, first class and had a champagne lifestyle. Alex D: I was actually thinking about that, yeah. Sarah: I feel like that comment makes a lot of sense with if you know, you've just broken into the market and then the rug gets pulled out from under you. But at the same time, I would imagine that if you're starting out right now, there are a lot of other challenges as well, because maybe, first of all, even harder to get jobs and. Exactly. Don't know the technology. And what does it mean then to not undercut or ruin the market? Because this is not that it wasn't there before, but it's less established, you know, you know less about it with a what should you be charging, what is OK and how you know that it's not that there's no rules there, but there's maybe fewer rules or newer ones that not everyone knows yet. So maybe that can be a good thing, too, because you can be part of developing that market more. But different challenges maybe. Jonathan: I'm beginning to see more in depth and jobs come in, and I've changed my view from previous. I wouldn't consult, only wants to know well, and I'm finding as a consultant that it's hard to get good interpreters than it was before because I I've, for example, a recent job that was putting together a call for I went through for interpreters, for a certain language, and only one of them was either available or willing to do remote. And I've also come across cases where, well, I also came across cases of inappropriate in that quota of interpreters saying I've just decided to leave the profession. So if you're a new student, there are there could be more opportunities for you because there are interpreters thinking about leaving their out interpreters who are thinking, well, it's just going to be a flash in the pan. I'll just read, I've got enough savings. And so actually, if you've got your wits about you, I usually feel strange receiving kind of emails from people saying I am and you shouldn't get high when you graduate, you know, do you have any work? I usually feel really odd because often there's not much around, but I actually have graduate write the right email to the right consultants at the right time. You could actually find themselves picking up work because they will be more used to it than some interpreters are. Sarah: Yeah, and I also feel like I mean, people are saying, oh, this is you know, this job isn't going to last. I mean, the pandemic is also not going to last forever. I mean, it's lasting a while now and it's going to last for another while, but it's not going to be forever. Fingers crossed. Right. But other pandemics went. We got Alex D: Eventually, Sarah: Rid of the black plague Alex D: It's. Sarah: Eventually. No, I mean, look, this is a you know, you know, I'm exaggerating, but I'm just saying, you know, there will always be one way or another. Alex G: Would not recommend. Alex D: No. Sarah: There will always be a demand for language services and for interpreting one way or another. But the market might change. You know, that's a difference. And to what Jonathan was saying as well is I can understand that people go, oh, you're a new student, so you're inexperienced, so maybe we shouldn't hire you. And I'm not even referring directly to you, Jonathan, but in general, people who hire interpreters was like, how do you get your first job? That, you know, this is not just a question technically for InterpretBank, but for lots of markets where it's like you have to have experience to work in this job and like, well, how do you get this experience? Alex G: Ok, but I do think at the moment there is sort of a unique opportunity for young interpreters to to get jobs more easily, perhaps because a lot of established interpreters might have clients who have to switch to a remote who might be doing a conference on Zoome. And the more experienced interpreters might not have any experience on that. But because, you know, they've been busy, they have families to deal with or whatever, and the young interpreters have done tons of webinars on Zoome. They've done all the tests on all the different platforms. They really know what's going on. And so if you have I mean, this is true for a lot of young interpreters that I know, like they've done a crap ton of webinars, like, honestly, didn't we all do a ton of webinars during the pandemic? I swore I was never going to resume again. And here we are tonight. But but, you know, they actually have the opportunity, if they're in contact with these people to be like, you know, if you ever have a job and maybe not as overt, but, you know, they can offer their help in establishing a proper ARCI kind of protocols for them or show them the ropes, show them how the technology works. And in that way, you can sort of get roped into there are teams possibly. So maybe it's actually now easier because you have a concrete incentive to book these young interpreters or at least kind of consult them on what you can offer to your clients as an even more experienced interpreter. Jonathan: Mm Alex G: Do you know what I mean? Jonathan: Hmm, yeah, I would also say that I underestimate while at uni, I underestimated the importance of recommendations. And so there was one job that I was a I wasn't consulting on by a senior interrogator. And I found out that my booth mate was chosen because she came highly recommended by someone else. And, you know, she she came into the job collecting. And I said, you know, Substratum, I don't tell you this, but this is my first paid job. I said, I don't know. Problem will take you under my wing. And actually, there are certain jobs where you could, you know, it could easily be your first job. But, you know, there are certain InterpretBank projects I look at and go, right. I really need a super experienced team. And there are other projects you can go that this is a job that's okay for your first paid job. You know, we know the difference. And so, yeah, I think young Interpreters' Help, they probably have better business skills than we did coming out of university than anyone else. But my business skills sucked. And so actually they have a chance to leapfrog some of the more experienced interpreters because they know the tech, they know that they have been taught more business skills are social media natives. They can just get on with it. And actually, I wouldn't be surprised if the interpreters who graduated this summer become consultants far earlier than we did. Sarah: I mean, I definitely agree that, you know what you're saying with the current situation, offering more opportunities right now also for young interpreters, because maybe some of the more experienced ones either don't want to do it or can't do it. And, you know, you can get a foot in the door that way. But, well, again, you know, remote is one option. But what about the traditional on site, you know, or when we're not in a pandemic? You know, of course, now this is a situation. But in general, how do you break in? Is it mostly I would say through. Yeah, contact. Right. Mentors, teachers, someone who is willing to say, OK, this is your first job, but I'll take you with me anyway, or I will vouch for you or recommend you or something like that, you know. Alex D: And I was going to say something similar. So because we were asking the question, how is 2020 different from 2008, for example? And I don't think we have to necessarily make it about the pandemic. But something that I was I've been sort of jealous of is that a lot of professional associations nowadays have these mentoring programs. So where experienced colleagues take take people under the wings again and help them out. And there's this sort of direct relationship, which I think makes it much easier to ask, quote unquote, stupid questions in a safe environment, I guess. And also increasingly the online practice groups and also real life practice groups that have been popping up, which I think is a fantastic initiative. So I really I mean, we had our local practice group at university, but I think as soon as we went sort of our separate ways after after graduation, that was it. And now these other practice groups are more institutionalized and more open and also work online these days, which is really great. So that's something that's also different compared to. Yeah, I guess 10 years ago, maybe. Alex G: Yeah, definitely, there are definitely more resources, more tools available, and just generally I feel like a little bit of a higher degree of professionalization within the industry. I mean, I remember when I was when I just graduated university, I was I put together a mentoring scheme for an association in the UK and I presented it to them because they didn't have it. And they said, oh, no, we don't need an interpreter mentoring scheme. There's not enough of a demand. And I was like, Alex D: There is Alex G: Well, I'm demanding, Alex D: An. Alex G: But no, you know, but yeah, it didn't happen and Jonathan: We know you're demanding Alex G: No, Jonathan: Alex Alex G: You know. Jonathan: Is right, Alex G: So yeah. Anyways, um. Yeah, Jonathan: But Alex G: It's Jonathan: Also Alex G: Just changed. Yeah. Jonathan: I Alex D: But yeah, just just Jonathan: Think. Alex D: To make sorry, but just to say that because you said it's all about sort of connections and contacts, I think that is something that has changed because it used to be you have to know the right people. And now I think it's much easier to just connect to these existing networks online, you know, practice groups, mentoring programs, that kind of thing. And that's that's, I think, a good thing. But, Jonathan, go ahead. Sorry. Jonathan: And also so when I started out, social media existed, I think, yeah, that, but not in the way it does now. So I find it really strange that I can, like, send a Twitter D.M. to a senior editor at a major publishing house and get a response. Everyone is so much more contactable in the email, probably is no longer the best way to contact people. But I was amazed how much work I got by hanging around translation and interrupting forums and just kind of chatting. And I remember once I got was it was translation rather than terrible thing, but someone sent me an email and said, I've seen your intelligent answers to discussions on this forum. Could you do this translation for me? It was like a 300 euro job. And I got an interesting job because of an article I wrote in a magazine. So as much as everyone says don't spend too long on social media, I think for a new interpreter it could actually be a really good way of building contacts, especially if you're in a quiet market. You can build contacts outside of your quiet market. And, you know, once I got flown to a mystery location in the Western Front because of contacts. So, Alex D: That sounds Jonathan: You know, Alex D: Very Jonathan: It's. Alex D: Shady. Alex G: That's on super superceding. Jonathan: It felt shady, Alex D: Yeah. Jonathan: And so it was a business InterpretBank job, I flew it, flew into Paris, got a TV station I don't like to mention, got picked up at a block, a luxury car Alex G: Did they put a bag over your head? Jonathan: Driven Alex D: They must have. Jonathan: Two and a half hours to a chateau in the middle of nowhere and Alex D: Oh, wow, Jonathan: Interrogated until 11 Alex D: What Jonathan: P.m.. Alex D: A story. Jonathan: Yeah, and I didn't because it was done that really, really quick notice. I got the call on the way and Steve flew out on the Friday, I think. And to this day, I don't know the name of the interpreter who recommended me for it because it was someone recommended someone else who recommended me. Alex G: How come you've never told a story this is such an exciting story. Alex D: He's not allowed to talk about it, that's why. Alex G: Well, that's that's yeah, that must be a. Jonathan: Well, the embarrassing thing was I woke up in the morning in this rather nice with rather nice room and a girl said, would you like to rate the shot with such and such? And we don't know, Notability not Alex G: That's funny. Jonathan: Supposed to know I'm here. Alex D: Yeah. Jonathan: Yeah. So if you get a job with a non-disclosure agreement, turn off the location on your Google on your phone, please. Alex D: Yeah, but I mean, I guess there's a flip side to that as well, because we've got a few comments about sort of colleagues, especially more experienced colleagues, not being quite as welcoming as it may have sounded just now. So there was this one one comment where somebody was told by a colleague, you would make a really good translator. And, you know, there's there's just so much in there to unpack. But I think that the intention was clearly not a good one in that case. And, you know, sometimes there's a little bit of or maybe not just a little bit. Sometimes there is sort of protectionism and trying to, you know, not let new people move into the market because, you know, this is my market. These are my clients. Was that something you guys ever experienced Sarah: Luckily, Alex D: Without having to name names? Sarah: Yeah, Alex D: Of course. Sarah: Luckily, I personally didn't experience at all the people I knew were very welcoming and helpful, but when I interviewed someone recently about an interpreting market, I won't even say the country. Alex G: Did you sign an NDA? Did they put a bag over your head? Sarah: No, I'm just trying to be polite. Alex D: Do the right thing. Yeah. Sarah: So, Alex G: Do the right thing. Sarah: Yeah, they were kind of saying, oh, there's all these new interpreters coming onto the market all the time, you know, because it's more interpreting programs now. And there's new graduates every year. And the president seemed very happy about it. And I thought, well, that's just life. You know, of course, like we were all, you know, you were a graduate once now. And Alex D: Presumably. Sarah: Of course, there's new people coming onto the market all the time. And I guess it means more competition. But, you know, I don't I don't think that's the nice attitude to have because it was more fun for me. I was on the on the flip side in our interpreting course that we were more thought, well, this isn't a one man or woman job usually read Alex G: That is very Sarah: Like you Alex G: True. Sarah: Want to build good connections. And because you usually need a booth mate and you are working as a team or you know, so I think this should always be the the approach. But yeah, maybe some people don't see. Jonathan: I've never had protectionist colleagues, I've had I think I've told the story before, I had someone who visited their university and told me I should seriously think of, again, another job that's about the most I've had on the job or in practice. But I do have how do I phrase this? I do have colleagues that I prefer to work with, and I do have colleagues that if I'm consulting on a job, I have colleagues I contact first and colleagues I go to later and colleagues that I go to. Even after that, I do have preferences because one thing that it took me a while to learn was the vital importance of team dynamics. I know there can be people who are great interpreters, but, you know, you just wouldn't mesh with the rest of the team. And so being a nice person is actually a job skill and interpreting. Alex G: Oh, for sure. Alex D: That's actually a comment that I think that came from Julia who said that, you know, it's not only about the InterpretBank skills, there's so much more that sort of comes into play. And a lot of comments actually also said, you know, take your time and you kind of have to work through this. But I think Julia mentioned. Yeah, organizational skills, good humor, small talk chops, you know, and grit, you know, and that was a nice terminological discussion in Russian how you would translate great. But I think that's that's definitely something that you that you need, I think is because kind of the the flip side of taking your time and, you know, maybe spend some extra time in a country to fine tune your languages. I think the flip side of that is also great because, you know, you can work on your languages as much as you like. You somehow have to, you know, put food Alex G: At Alex D: On Alex G: A Alex D: The Alex G: Job, Alex D: Table and stuff Alex G: Yeah, Alex D: Like that. Alex G: That's Alex D: And Sarah: Yeah. Alex D: Especially Alex G: Very true. Alex D: If you start out in the profession with a family like some of us did. You know, that makes it a little bit more challenging, obviously. Alex G: No, but I think it's true with, you know, the grit and endurance and, you know, it takes some time, it went really slow. Some of the one response, I think that was my favorite response to the whole question. It was just slow Alex D: Yes, Alex G: Exclamation Alex D: It Alex G: Point. Alex D: Was slow. Alex G: You know, unless you're extremely lucky, it's going to take some time. And I, I think I don't know any interpreter who just had huge success overnight. You know, it happened faster for some than for others. Unless you instantly start out for the institutions. Maybe then it's a bit different because then you're in like a different environment. But even there, I'm pretty sure it takes some time to kind of get established in the booth and, you know, the different teams. So it just it takes some time. I think at the beginning. There's nobody who starts out just doing interpreting even did translations. And I hate translations. So, you know, you know, it just takes some time and don't get discouraged. Be open in the beginning. But how should you say, I don't want to make it sound weird, but, you know, like try different things, just see what kind of feels comfortable to you. And I had this conversation the other day with a with a colleague of mine from Spain who was struggling on taking certain remote jobs. And I was like, just listen to your gut. If your gut says it's not right and don't do it, you know, because at the end of the day, it's not just about the money. Even in the beginning, if you take the money and then you feel like total crap afterwards, was it really worth it? So just listen to what feels right and even in the beginning, listen to that gut feeling. But it's going to take some time. Jonathan: I would also say one thing that I learned the hard way was if you have this niggling thing of why I really should do such and such, so that one of the breaks for me, one of the things that changed my business was doing APHC. And I remember one of the most one of the weirdly strong memories. As I remember, there's a set of double doors and the language is building and hit it. I remember pushing on those double doors and as I pushed them, having handed in my master's dissertation for the second time, I felt the thing. Go back and ask your Masters supervisor about doing it three years later after, you know, mental health issues, after a mental health episode and after just really not enjoying stuff. I was back for three and a half years later. I was doing a and I thought if I asked at that moment, I could have shortcutting two or three years of not enjoying myself, not, you know, not doing what I really should have been doing. And for those two, three years when I was supposed to be doing marketing, I will reading research. And it took me a while to get the hint. If I'm reading research rather than doing marketing, that's probably not a good saying. Alex D: It's a hint. Jonathan: No, I'm equally happy doing both. And someone taught me that you're supposed to enjoy your marketing as much as you enjoy the work. And I did not enjoy that. If the way that you're trying to get InterpretBank jobs feels like a chore. Think about different ways of marketing. Alex G: That seems like a bold statement, though. Jonathan: Well, I went through so when I started out, I did the send your CV to any agency you can find thing. And actually if I had done if I had been confident enough to do what I'm doing now, which is, you know, the go to meetings to meet people, the generally chat and make contacts and make friends style, I've had more opportunities doing that than I ever had through the mail. 100 CVS's 200 agents. Email 100 civies, 200 agencies. There's enough different ways to market that. Actually, the one that you're going to enjoy doing if you if you find the right one. And because I thought it was normal to apply for however many Pru's job boards and translators, covid translators cafi job ads and email so many agencies, my marketing felt like a drag and I felt depressed trying to get work so that when I actually did get to work, I was already feeling down to begin with, Alex D: I think that's the thing, I mean, Jonathan: Whereas. Alex D: It is a bold Jonathan: Yeah. Alex D: Statement, but, yeah, unless you work for big institutions or big clients where you have a lot of repeat business, I guess marketing is just part of the job. And I guess if you if you can't enjoy that, then a big part of your job just kind of sucks. And I mean, you can just, you know, work through it. But yeah, I don't know, maybe life's telling you something. I don't know. Alex G: Well, but I do think also with I was in the exact same situation Jonathan was in at the beginning because I was living in the U.K. and the UK is a complete agency dominated market. So I think in a market like that, it's also a completely different situation. You know, it's a numbers game more than anything else. Like you do have to contact all the agencies and then eventually they will get back to you. And I think it was a tour, but I think it really like you have to really know your market and really find out the approach of how the market works and how you get kind of a toe in the door, like half a toe, like a pinky toe. Jonathan: I think I would have been actually better off trying to meet as many interpreters as I could because the agency work that I got tended to come on the basis of my colleagues recommending me to the agency anyway. So a lot of the agencies wouldn't actually really respond and tell another interpreter said you should get so-and-so. Alex G: That is very true, Jonathan: And so Alex G: Yeah. Jonathan: If I had spent more time, you know, putting feelers out, failing all the local interpreters for even finding the interpreters across the UK, I would have done a much better job and I would actually have made more friends than the whole dating agency and such and such a list. I must send my CV to them and the majority of them didn't get back. And the ones that did were because someone said you should get Jonathan. Alex G: But can I just add to that real quick, and this also goes to a few of the comments that we got from, I don't even know, a ton of people from Danielle, from Kara and from from just a bunch of people. And I think it adds nicely to what you just said about how to meet people. You know, in the beginning, you do have a lot of time. I remember I in the beginning, I had nothing but time because I didn't have any work. And then eventually I got involved in the different associations, you know, I volunteered. And Alex D: Giving Alex G: That's Alex D: Back to Alex G: How Alex D: The profession, Alex G: You get second. Alex D: Sorry, giving back to the profession. Just Alex G: Exactly, Alex D: Wanted to underline your Alex G: Giving Alex D: Point. Alex G: Back to the profession, Sophie, said that, and I think a lot of people in the beginning are hesitant because they're like, oh, who am I? Why should I be elected into an office in any association? Nobody knows me. What what do I have to give? Well, you have time. Alex D: High Alex G: You have time and energy. Alex D: Hopes Alex G: Nobody else has that anymore, Alex D: And Alex G: Trust Alex D: Enthusiasm. Alex G: Me. Alex D: Yes, Alex G: Yeah, Alex D: So Alex G: We Alex D: True. Alex G: Don't have that anymore either. So it doesn't just apply yourself in the associations and in the profession in that way. And that way you not only have something to do, which in the beginning sometimes I did not and I was just sitting there. I'm like twiddling my thumbs and I'm like, well, what do I do now? This is kind of a this is my job, but it's not really a job. And then you have something to do. And you actually also get to meet a ton of people. And even the people who you don't meet, they will still know who you are because you have an office. You might send out emails, you, you know, mail blasts for whatever event you're organizing or doing whatever. So I think that is still legit. Even in Caronna Times, you know, Hosta, Xoom, do something. There's tons of stuff to do. Jonathan: And also things like, you know, I think we underestimate the power of writing about the experience of the first year, I tried to be like I remember starting up my blog because blogging was the new way of marketing when I started out. And OK, my first website does. Yeah, joke about it in both a recent plenary speech and then my newest book. See, I did find the mention of the book and I joke about how awful it was and how it was gray on Gray. And I wrote like a feticide. If I'd written like a normal human being and just said, this is what I'm going through, you know, this is my experience. You don't want to tell people, you know, what you eat for dinner, but, you know, talking about the processes that you're doing and how you're trying to market the fact of you writing that picture right there and you find people who you know, if you've if you graduated a year ago, you find people who are just graduating going or really encouraging what you wrote about your first year, giving back in some way or other and just getting your name out there. You don't have to be a diva, but just be places where people are, whether it's online or in the real world with the mask on, you know, just be around people and get to know your association and your colleagues. Alex G: Yeah, totally, yeah, get to know your colleagues, but on the flip side, this is I don't know, you know, there's a lot of stories where people actually come to market, especially here in Munich. I've heard two people tell me the story and they came here and they did like handwritten notes to members of the IEEE. And then they sent it and they delivered it like personally sometimes and, you know, get to know your colleagues. But don't I feel like that was weird. I felt really uncomfortable when they told me those stories. Maybe that's just me, but, you know, be normal. Jonathan: A ship sailed a long time ago for most Interpreters' Alex G: Well, that's Jonathan: Help Alex G: True, and I'm including myself in that, but, you Jonathan: Sorry. Alex G: Know, it just I don't know. Handwritten notes delivered to the door just feels weird. Alex D: Ate some chocolate, at least. Sarah: Yeah, I think it's maybe a little difficult as well to find a balance with, you know, you want to do everything right and you want to meet the right people and don't make, like, misstep or whatever. But at the same time, you need to also remain. You write I in a genuine and not be you know, I don't know I don't want to say kiss ass because I feel like that's a little mean and people are just trying, but, you know, just to still just be grounded somehow just be you. But yeah, I think it's hard because I guess the theme that stands out from all the comments and from our stories is that it just takes time and you take one step at a time and you try to meet people and then they can give you advice or they have contacts and you take your first step. And to me, actually, going back to university to do my master's, I was just as much interested in getting value out of the actual like the content, you know, learning the skills. And as I wasn't making contacts, because I think that is one of the best things you can do by going back to university is you will get a network of people, you know, you will meet experienced people. In our case, all of our teachers were experienced and interpreters. And then you have this whole other group of people who are also then just trying to figure it out after. So but I just mean, I'm only mentioning this because people are saying, like, go meet people and know your market and get to know the people in your market as a new student. You might go like, well, where do I find those people? You know, of course, online a little bit. Sure. And, you know, you can look out for networking events or something, but it's good then to really utilize what university or whatever course you're doing has to offer to, like, at least point you in the right direction. Probably. Jonathan: National associations are great as well. I am very glad I joined it as a shouldn't because I didn't mind the one thing that I did wrong in those first three years. I didn't take full advantage of the advantages of being a member of it. I didn't push the doors that I should have pushed. And so, you know, push every door that you can find to push and just give stuff a try. And I was joking with my supervisor when saying, you know, all the stuff that people are paying me to write about and, you know, and interrupting teams is everything I learned in the first three weeks of my master's. Alex D: Uh. Sarah: Yeah. Jonathan: As you know, so I remember one one job and the agency phoned me up and they're like, so this is a setup for the job, how many interpreters are we going to need? It's like you're an agency that's like the one Alex D: You're Jonathan: Stuff Alex D: Supposed to know that. Jonathan: We could do that. But, you know, people have mental block sometimes. And, you know, simply because you're a graduate, you know, more stuff about interrupting than clients. So, you know, don't be overconfident, don't be daft, but use what you know already. And if a client says I need interpreters for French, use your contacts to work or just say, I know a really good consultant and ask them to do it for you. Alex D: That's the frustrating Sarah: You Alex D: Stuff sometimes, Sarah: Know. Alex D: Right? Is that your skills are so good when you're graduating, especially note-taking skills, they'll never be that good Alex G: I know. Alex D: Anymore. And you don't get you don't get to play them, you know, or just occasionally. And so you get rusty. And that I think that's just very frustrating. But that's yeah. Again, that's part of the that's part of the landscape. So. Sarah: But maybe we need to take a little bit of the pressure out of it as well. I felt a lot Jonathan: And. Sarah: Of pressure in the beginning with, like I said, or don't make the wrong move. You know, and I I'm not saying that we shouldn't be taught how to do this right and everything and not to undercut and all that. You know, I agree with those things, but there's a little bit of that like like Jonathan was saying, like try out things, you know, like be a little bit bold and like, you know, don't go crazy, maybe off the rails. But, you know, there's certain things that you can probably try if you like. OK, maybe, you know, if I like that, it's not immediately over. If you make a small Alex D: Yeah, Sarah: Mistake, Alex D: And also that's Sarah: I'm. Alex D: How the profession moves forward, you know, as people joining the profession, trying out new stuff and some of it sticks because it's good. So, you know, there's a there's a value in that, I think. Jonathan: That's how we got tablet and things I want to try to. Alex G: Yeah, Alex D: Yes, Alex G: Wonder who tried that, Alex D: Awesome Comsec, for that matter. Alex G: But, you know, I actually want to add to what Sara was just saying in the whole conversation has been about that, you know, we're all going to make mistakes. Everybody's made mistakes. Nobody in this podcast has not made some serious mistakes in their career. And we've all survived. We're all here. Nobody's usually doing it on purpose. And people you know, if you learn from the mistake, if you don't keep doing it 20 times over after the first time, after someone told you, hey, that wasn't cool, you should probably not do that if you then do it 20 more times than OK, we might have an issue. But if you're like, oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know that I'll do better next time and then you do it better next time. It's fine. I think a good idea about InterpretBank and this is kind of what I live by to this very day is just fake it till you make it. You know, if you get a job request, you have no idea what it is unless it's like quantum physics and you're I don't know, you don't want to blow up the universe, but, you know, usually just say yes to the job unless you feel super uncomfortable and you'll figure it out, especially in the beginning, because you have nothing but time to prepare. You Alex D: Sheriff. Alex G: Have colleagues you can ask. And that's the second thing that I want to mention is don't underestimate your network that you have when you've graduated, because a lot of those people that I graduated with, I hired them, I work with them. They hire me because, you know, we know each other. We know what we're good at. We know what we're about it. We know how we can help each other. We just kind of you have that rapport already because you went through university together. You've been in the booth a bunch of times, you know, you know, other languages they might know other people that you don't know because they live in another country. They joined a different association. So don't underestimate that network. And the third thing I want to mention, and then I promise I'll shut up, is don't be afraid to try to get into IG early. I think especially for me is I'm just going to talk about my own experience in the beginning. It always kind of seemed like the holy grail of, you know, InterpretBank Alex D: Yeah. Alex G: Don't get too close or you'll burn. And like Icarus, you'll, you know, go down in flames. It's not that bad. People don't rip your head off. But I think especially if you join early as a candidate, you'll get a lot of opportunities presented much more quickly than if you didn't because you're just on people's radar. And this isn't only hold true for IG. I believe this holds true for for all the associations. But I really experienced a shift when I joined as a candidate because people just notice you differently in your in your local market. So don't be afraid of that. It's nothing crazy. It's it's an association. If you make mistakes and you learn from them, if you try to improve, if you're a good, decent person, you'll be fine. Jonathan: So we've had a question in the YouTube comments where Rebecca Shorrock has asked, what's the biggest mistake each of the panelists have made as the second biggest mistake was me reading out that question. Alex D: Yes. Alex G: Yes, Mr. X, who, as we know. Jonathan: Ok, I'm going to go kind of meta here, I will start this. My biggest mistake was thinking that I was a business person because I didn't want to I didn't feel comfortable running my business the way that I'd seen other business people do it. Now, I realize that actually, if I had from the beginning thought I was I want to run as high as I want to market, what do I naturally feel connected to doing? I would have been a lot better off and I'd have saved myself, you know, a lot of issues if I had started out saying I my business doesn't have to look like everyone else's. Right. You know what comes naturally to me? And it would take you a couple of years to find out if I'd started with I don't have my business doesn't have to look like everyone else's. I think I would have been much happier and probably had more jobs to begin with as well. Alex G: So let me go very hands on, I'm not the media person. I think one of my biggest mistakes, but then, you know, it turned out to be fine in the end was when I moved from the UK to Germany. I didn't know my market. And that's why I said, no, your market get to know your market. So from the UK, which was a very agency dominated market, I went to Germany, which is a very non-EU agency dominated market. But there are agencies and they're usually not the greatest. And so coming from one agency market into another market, I thought, oh, well, I'll just work for the agencies. And if you know the market, if I had known the market at that time, I would have known that they usually pay lower wages. It's not very encouraged to work for them, et cetera, et cetera. And I did it anyways until somebody told me, you know, I know you're from the UK. They do it like that over there, which is fine because it works for the market. But over here, it's not really the market you want to be in. It's the gray market. You know that Ulmanis, whatever. Yeah, but they told me and I was like, oh, I'm really sorry. I didn't know that. I didn't even occur to me. Thank you for telling me. And I'll just kind of move in a different direction. I'm telling it now. It's a very calm story. It was a little bit dramatic for a few days there, Alex D: Of course Alex G: But, Alex D: It was, Alex G: You Alex D: Yeah. Alex G: Know. Yeah. As it is in interpreting. Alex D: I'm not sure about biggest, biggest mistake, but just to say I've made the classic mistakes is working alone for too long, taking on jobs I wasn't really qualified for. So, you know. Sarah: I think for me, the biggest one is probably just being too hesitant in the beginning and a little bit intimidated by all the. That's why I keep saying let's take some of the pressure out of it. Because of me. That was like a big blocker and the beginning just being so insecure of what I'm basically allowed to do and what not, instead of being Alex D: It's the right Sarah: A Alex D: Word. Sarah: Little bit Alex D: Yeah. Sarah: More confident and bold, you know, without overstepping, again, you know, not going off the rails here, anything, but just to have a little bit more confidence and to try stuff, you know. Yeah. It can really hold you back. I think. Alex D: A man Alex G: Trainman, sister. Alex D: Exactly was that I hope that was a big enough of a confession, I guess, Alex G: Rebecca, did you get what Alex D: From Alex G: You wanted? Alex D: All of us. Jonathan: They all ashamed of us. The chat has stopped now, Alex G: This Jonathan: Just going Alex G: Stuff, Jonathan: To be. Alex G: They're like, no, they did. Sarah: If you think I don't have an awesome story to tell because my experience is still too limited, so maybe I can talk about I could talk about other business mistakes. So it's not really relevant for InterpretBank, I think. Alex D: Yeah, that's fine. Alex G: It needs to be juicy, Sarah. Just get something juicy. Jonathan: It is the money hidden in a chest somewhere. Alex D: But, yeah, do we do do we have a we have lots of takeaways, I guess, as usual. So, Alex G: Tons. Alex D: As always, Alex G: Oh, my God, so Alex D: Kind Alex G: Many, Alex D: Of difficult, Alex G: Yeah. Alex D: Kind of difficult to sort of summarize everything, but Alex G: The fountain of wisdom here. Alex D: What. Yeah, I know. But what I really liked is sort of what you just said, Sarah, is sort of people, you know, don't don't be too intimidated by things, although that's different advice to give. You know, it's it's easier for some and maybe more difficult for others. But also the whole point of be yourself. And I think Demi in her comments said have a voice, which I really liked, because I always sort of reminded me of the whole discussion about Exxon, which we didn't or, you know, which we didn't get into today, probably for the best. Right, Jonathan? So I think Jonathan: What would I know about Alex D: I Jonathan: Accents Alex D: Don't know. I don't know. I was just seeing you there and said, Sarah: Maybe Alex D: Yeah, Sarah: You know, Alex D: Yeah. Sarah: Someone Alex D: Maybe, you know, Sarah: In Alex D: Someone. Jonathan: And Sarah: The. Alex D: Exactly. Jonathan: I. Alex D: Exactly. So I guess with that, we can wrap it up, wrap it up, and maybe we are making Rebecca we do a titty confessional at some point and we all anonymously share our biggest mistakes with this Sarah: I Alex D: Distorted Sarah: Love that idea. Alex D: Voice. So Sarah: The dark side Alex D: We can't Sarah: Of InterpretBank. Alex D: We can't be Jonathan: There Alex D: Identified. Jonathan: Has never been a horror movie made about InterpretBank Gansmeier. Alex D: Exactly, so it was great to have the the YouTube listeners and viewers along for the ride, so maybe we do that again someday. And again, thanks to everyone who submitted stories and ideas and thoughts, Alex G: Thanks, Alex D: Interpreters Alex G: Everybody. Alex D: And teachers. Thanks for that. And with that, we close this episode of the Troublesome Terps and see you soon. Stay safe, everyone. Bye bye.