[Intro music] Skipper Chong Warson: Hi, my name is Skipper Chong Warson and I'm a design director in San Francisco. Thanks for tuning in to How This Works. This is a show where I invite people on to talk about some topic that they know incredibly well. And today, I'm fortunate to have with me Stephanie Krivitzky. She's going to talk to us today about being a creative director, designer and how she gets things done -- all topics that she knows an awful lot about. Thanks for being here, Stephanie. Stephanie Krivitzky: Thank you for having me. Great to see you. Unfortunately, not in the flesh, but very happy to be on screen with you. Skipper: Yeah. The coast to coast thing is, I think what we're inhabiting right now, I'm in San Francisco and you're in New York. Stephanie: Absolutely. But I bet we have the same weather. Skipper: Yeah. I would say it's very close. Stephanie, let's start things off by you introducing yourself to the audience. You know, just tell us a little bit about who you are. Where are you from? Anything that you think would be appropriate for, you know, that quick introduction? Stephanie: Absolutely. As you said, my name is Stephanie Krivitzky, it's an interesting name especially as a designer -- all of the letters in my first name are very round and all of the letters in my last name are very long and skinny. So it always made it very challenging to create a design for a resume or a website or things like that. So I think I was just meant to be a designer to sort of solve my own problem. Skipper: That's awesome. Stephanie: Yes. So otherwise, in no particular order, I'm a daughter, I'm a sister, a girlfriend, and a very proud aunt of a 15-month-old. Skipper: Aw. Stephanie: Yes, she's very sweet. I'm five feet tall and spunky. I'm very outspoken. I'm a Jewish woman hustling in New York City. I love logistics and I love giving gifts. And I spend the majority of my waking hours as a creative director at a company called Misen, which is a cookware startup. Skipper: Okay, cool. Stephanie, what's something that someone might not guess about you, something you feel comfortable sharing? Stephanie: You know, I had to think a lot about this because I am incredibly extroverted. And I love to talk and I love to share things about myself, I sort of have no secrets. But there's one thing that never really comes up in conversation, which a way that a lot of people like to relax. And I hate it. I hate taking baths. I just loathe baths. I can totally rationalize it for you. Truly. It's an incredibly inefficient use of water, you can never get the soap out of your hair, I have long hair, and you have to take a shower afterward. For me, I get so excited about submerging myself in hot water. Skipper: Sure. Stephanie: Apparently, women tend to like hotter water than men. And so I really would like a steaming hot shower or boiling hot bath. But then I get undressed in anticipation of the bath, and the bath is a quarter of the way full, and so then I'm standing there freezing cold, naked, waiting for the bath, and it's not coming. So the anticipation is really just like met with not that much reward. And you know, even if it's hot enough, by the time I'm in there for three minutes, I want to get out because I'm sweating. And -- Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: I just can never the mechanics of a bath to me are all wrong, I highly suggest just sitting down in the shower and it will create the most ideal effect. Skipper: That's fair, that's fair. You know, of all the answers that I've heard so far about what something someone might not guess, I think that you not only have something that I absolutely would not have guessed, number one. And number two, you've thought this out so fully, that's fantastic. Stephanie: I think about a lot of things probably too much. Skipper: So Stephanie, what are we talking about today? What is that topic that we're talking about that you consider yourself very well versed? Stephanie: I thought about this one a lot as well. I find a lot of people often think what they're best at is what they do, or at least what they get paid for. They're some sort of correlation between if you are quote-unquote professional or you are getting paid to either speak about something or write about something or share something in the world somehow that makes you an expert. Skipper: Sure. Stephanie: And I think that is true in a lot of cases. But I also think there are ways you can be an expert or really understand something deeply when it's something you do for yourself. And that's what I wanted to talk about. So it's not necessarily that I'm educated on a particular topic or have 10,000 hours of doing something and for public consumption. What I've been really good at my whole life is just -- Can I curse on the show? Skipper: Of course, yep. Stephanie: Okay. What I've been really good at my entire life or so people in my life have told me is getting shit done. Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: And that is both in my professional world and my personal life so if you're an organized person who likes logistics and likes to think through how something will go from start to finish, how to tackle an endless to-do list -- that kind of happens both in work and at home. And I think I've done enough of it that I have figured out ways to optimize it for myself. And that's what I think I'm pretty expert in. Skipper: Okay. Especially these days, I think I think everyone has a pile or a list of things that they need to get done. So I think that this is really relevant to anyone listening to the podcast right now. I'd love to -- and you've said it twice now so far, depending on how this gets edited -- but you've talked about logistics, can you tell me what you mean by logistics and how it relates to this idea of getting things done? Or sometimes the acronym is GTD. Stephanie: This all comes from my family dinners as a child, which is pretty odd. But I come from a family of four, I have an older brother, and we would talk about the logistics of our week or our weekends, or how we were all going to coordinate our various afterschool activities at the dinner table. Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: It wasn't always the only conversation we had. But we all had very strong opinions about the best way to get it done. Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: My father, probably having the strongest opinion and having the least amount of involvement in the logistics. But I think there is a sort of hidden agenda and trying to beat our father and coming up with the most optimized and clever logistics of things. Skipper: I was just gonna say, like out-dad dad, but that's not really the right thing. Like, beat out dad. Yeah. Stephanie: In the 90s, I think you could probably say that. My dad worked for our family business for a very, very long time. And he was the boss, and he was dealing with logistics all day long. And he himself got very good at it. In fact, one of the companies that are part of our family business is a delivery, courier service. So logistics really was kind of at the helm of it. Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: It's not a UPS but it's not far off in terms of how the day to day gets run. Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: So we all really just got excited about trying to figure out the best way -- and by best, I mean, the most efficient, the clearest, the least repeating your steps way to get stuff done. Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: And it became not only something we were excited to beat our dad at, but it became an exciting conversation to have around the table. You know, it almost tells the story of your day, your weekend, then your life. You know, what are you doing? And how did you make that happen? It's a little bit of a diary in a way. And I think I've just continued that kind of practice in my life, as I become an adult. Skipper: Okay. I'd love to hear a little bit more about a contextualisation of this. Because it's one thing to hear in the abstract, you know, the goings-on at your dinner table. But how you approach either work or something in your life -- how do you approach getting something done? So you work as a designer, you work as a creative director -- is there something in that realm that you can break down for us how you might get something done amidst all the distractions and other things that are happening in your world? Stephanie: Absolutely. So I typically start with a main goal that I have for the day or for my job or my general career. I think, on a day to day and an hour to hour basis, that kind of changes in terms of what's in my direct line of sight. I build out my day based on that. So I think a great example, and maybe the best example of this, I will actually take it back a couple of years, I was working as a freelance art director, I had sort of grown up in the advertising world, and I decided after not finding the perfect agency that I thought would, you know, I couldn't find the agency that would fit all my desires. And so I decided I'll just go and freelance. Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: The goal was to make enough money as a freelance art director to go travel the world for four months with my partner. Skipper: Okay. Okay. Stephanie: And so, kind of everything else didn't really matter. And I was able to really focus on this is what I want, how can I make that happen? Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: I found out that I'm pretty fast at work itself, you know, the design work itself and so I realized maybe a couple of months into freelancing that I could take on more than one freelance project at the same time. Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: And at some point, it became even a game like how many projects can I be working on at one point, how many day rates can I have, what day rate can I be on and what work can I do in the morning and the evening on that day rate. And what can I do on the side -- remote -- and, you know, a little bit gaming system, if you will, a little bit radical. And I suppose it's a little bit daring to post this on a podcast, but again it really did, it really was all about that goal of making enough money to fulfill this dream. Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: So what I actually did in practice was, you know, if I was working on a freelance project for an agency, and it was for a bunch of Facebook ads, I would look at it and say, Okay, these Facebook ads have a shelf life of maybe one week or two weeks, these aren't going to win any Lions at Canne They're not going to be shown to the Chief Creative Officer of this company. I'm also not trying to get a full-time job here. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: Really, at the end of the day, what this needs to do is make the client happy and have all the things that they put on the creative brief baked in there in a way that doesn't offend people, you know, visually. Skipper: Sure. Stephanie: So that, to me, doesn't seem like something I should put a great amount of time into perfecting. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: And I think I gave myself permission to put work out in the world that wasn't, I wouldn't say my best but delivered more on the need, or the ask than what I wanted to do as an artist. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: And I was really able to segment a lot of those projects in my life to figure out the most efficient way to get them all done at the same time. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: And, and this all just goes back to a larger goal, you know, I tell my team now, is this something that you really need to work on for the good of the company, or the good of your own growth as a designer? Are you going to be learning something from this project, or is this something that we just have to make for volume, or to hit a particular mark, and if that's the case, you know, spend your effort elsewhere, it's okay to deprioritize things in order to prioritize other things, I think we have a really hard time as, as people and as designers, understanding where to put our effort. And I think it all just goes back to being 20 feet ahead of the car, as my dad would say when he taught me how to drive, understanding what really is important, what you really need to be looking for versus being so caught up in the moment of what you're working on? Skipper: Yeah, it sounds a little bit like you're talking about a few different things. And one is really gauging the return on investment that you're putting into something, making sure -- Stephanie: Absolutely. Skipper: That you're applying the right amount of effort for the impact, which is the second thing that I was also thinking of -- that Eisenhower graph that measures sort of low impact, high impact, low effort, high effort. So when you when you're looking at your day to day tasks are the things that you're doing on a week by week level, really looking and seeing what are the highest impact pieces that I can work on but I don't need to expend much effort, but I can just like push it out the door. Stephanie: That is exactly what I do in my own mind. And I'm constantly reshuffling those things. I almost think I've trained my mind to be this effective project manager of my own thoughts. And you that's kind of exactly what I think you have to do is really size, the effort, size, the impact and size, the importance, and not just to whoever is tasking you with that project, but also to yourself. And I think we tend to forget that when we're part of a larger organization, you know, you really have to look out for yourself and for your goals, I think that a company is really at-large thinking about the direction of itself. Skipper: Sure. Stephanie: And as an employee, you have to think about your own direction. And I definitely encourage my team to do that and talk about it. candidly, I think often we don't want to bring up the fact that there's a life after whatever company you're at, and there was a life before it. But there's no reason not to. If we can have more of a conversation about that, then we can be more focused on what our goals are. And I think that has this real trickle effect on how you actually manage your time. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: And get things done. Skipper: Yeah, totally. Do you find that when you're applying the principle to yourself individually, that you're thinking about it differently than you would when you're wearing your creative director hat? Are there different modes? Are there different versions of it? Stephanie: That's a great question. I think I do inherently. I know it works for me. And I would say, that's probably the first key to being able to do a lot in a single day is understanding who you are, what motivates you, what demotivates you, how and when you like to work, and that's different for everyone. And so as a creative director, running a team, you have to factor all those things into the equation for different people. For myself, the way I should structure my day is I wake up in the morning and I make a to-do list for the entire day. Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: Sometimes I have already made that during the prior day, and sometimes I even bake it out an entire week. Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: I almost feel like it's an invisible Excel spreadsheet that I'm populating as I have information -- Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: Constantly, as I said, I'm constantly moving those things around. And I actually go back and look at that list that to-do list on a, sometimes an hourly or even like, every 20 minute kind of basis, because I see that I haven't done this one thing. And maybe the reason I haven't done it is that I don't actually want to do it. And I have to size what level of effort is worth putting into motivating myself to do that thing. So, for example, something that tends to get pushed far down my to-do list is exercising. And so you know, I always have it on my to-do list. But if that's something that I clearly have skipped over four or five, six other things and not done, I need to decide at that moment. Is this something I actually want to keep on my to-do list? Or am I just going to let it go and move on with my day? I think it's probably opening a can of worms to talk about exercise and health and well being but you know, I think the principle applies to all different kinds of things. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: Another tactic I have with this list is I actually put things on it that I've already done. Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: Or that are fairly easy to accomplish. So waking up is the first thing on my to-do list every day, which means I get to cross something up off the second I look at my list. Skipper: Sure. Stephanie: Drinking coffee, going to the bathroom. I mean, they're all things that I do have to spend time doing. And so I put it on my to-do list. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: And I actually use different typography to indicate if I've already done it, or if I have to do it. So I tend to bold things on my to-do list I've already done. Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: And that gives me a sense of accomplishment. I am very sort of task-driven. And I like feeling that I've done something with my day already. So this is a really good way to reinforce that. And I don't apologize for it because it works. Skipper: Yeah, absolutely. Sometimes, you need to put those easy wins on the list. So that way you do feel accomplished right out the door. If you have a mixture of easy and hard things, the important thing is to get through the list. So at the end of the day, or at the end of whatever interval it is that you're looking at, you can say, Hey, I've done these things that I intended to do that I wanted to do. I think if you put in a couple of softballs, I think that's fine and especially if you know your own motivations, right? If you know that, that's something that will spur you on, then put it on there. Stephanie: Absolutely. It also gives you a really good understanding of how you're using your time, it's almost like a time management tool, if you will, if you find that a lot of things that you're putting on your list are getting ready for the day, or here's a good example -- sometimes I will segment out my list that says, wake up, have coffee, do my hair, put on makeup, get dressed, and then I realized I've spent the entire morning sort of preparing for the day. I realized that I had two hours of work I needed to do and that, you know, maybe I should have done that lying in bed before I did all those other things. Or maybe you know, there are also days where I know that preparing myself for the day actually puts me in a better spot to be more efficient. And so that's something that I have to weigh on a day to day basis. Just knowing myself and knowing what I'm feeling on that day, you know, is it worth the 45 minutes to put myself together? Or can I just stay in pajamas and use those 45 minutes it to get stuff done for work? So it's about knowing yourself, but also seeing how much time certain things take and we sort of are always surprised to find out what things take a long time and what things don't. Skipper: Yeah, I want to rewind to something that you were talking about, something that you see on your to-do list that keeps rolling on to the next day's to-do list, you just never sort of have the motivation or have the gumption or whatever it is to get through it. What happens after a certain number of times and you haven't done this thing? So I'll call myself out on something. I'm terrible at flossing in the morning. I'm okay flossing at night, but flossing in the morning is just something that I am not very good at. So -- and I've done this before, we're all I'll put it on my to-do list, I'll have it on there and it'll be a nudge and but after enough times where I don't do it I do that thing where I sweep it under the rug I deleted from the list I push it on to the next day, whatever it is, what is the gate for I'm not going to do this thing, I don't want to do this thing, and it doesn't matter how many times I put it on a list. I'm not going to do it. When does it then fall off your list or become something that you're no longer tracking? Stephanie: I'm so glad you asked this question because this happens to everyone. It's a very real scenario. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: And it can happen with something as trivial -- or I suppose if I was your dentist not trivial -- as flossing your teeth, or something as big as getting a project done that was due two weeks ago. Skipper: That's right. Stephanie: I think when it comes to motivation, you really need to, listen to yourself and find the things that actually motivate you. And personally, I think that if you aren't motivated by it, and you can't find things motivated, then it's not the right opportunity for you, you kind of just have to let it go. Maybe this is not your time to embed flossing into your routine. And you know what, that's okay. I think if it doesn't kill you, then, you know, no one is perfect, and no one's gonna hit every mark every time. Stephanie: Yeah. Stephanie: And I think you just have to, I think the sooner you can be at peace with yourself for not doing something and recognizing that you're using that time for something else that makes you who you are, then it's okay. That's all really goes back to just knowing who you are and what matters. I'll give you another good example. I have been giving my partner so much grief for not quitting smoking over the last several years. He went from a pack a day to a pack of JUULS today. I don't actually know. I don't think he is. But fortunately, he's off actual cigarettes, but he's still using his JUUL. And I always say to him, when are you going to quit, when are you going to quit? And he'll say when I'm ready. And that's not the answer that I want to hear. But he's going through the same process we're talking about, which is he hasn't found that motivation, to do it right now. And you can spend all of that energy beating yourself up for not embedding that into your routine or for not checking that off the to-do list. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: Or you can just say, This is not the time for that. And there will be a time when it does come. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: And I think just expelling the energy for something that ultimately won't happen. And you know that because you know yourself because it hasn't already happened -- Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: Is to me, not the most efficient use of time, it can really be spent on things that you do. And as long as you are happy with the person you are and the choices that you make, then you're not doing anything wrong. I mean, this is what makes us each unique is some people floss their teeth, and some people spend that time walking their dog, and that's okay. Skipper: Yeah. Yeah, I love this idea of using a to-do list as a bit of a diagnosis for figuring out what are the things that are important to you and then marching forward with those things that you know, that are going to make that difference that matters to you in your life. Stephanie: Yeah, that's exactly how I feel about it. I think I said this earlier, I actually use my to-do list as a diary of sorts. And sometimes I go back and say, What did I do three months ago? How was I spending my time? Am I proud of that now? Would I have done the same thing over again, you can even look at it and say, Look how many days I spent with this one thing on my to-do lists and how many different versions of it that I've had to tackle. And it ultimately ended in nothing What can I learn from that experience? How do I make sure that this doesn't become part of my schedule for two more weeks later down the road when it didn't actually happen? Skipper: Sure. Stephanie: That was something that was really helpful for me. And I think a good application of this is when I was still freelancing. But I was creating proposals for different clients. Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: They would often want to know how much a project would cost? Fair question. Skipper: Sure. Stephanie: And that all sort of goes back to how much time am I going to spend on it? Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: And a really good way that I learned to modify the scope of my proposals was to go back and say, Why did I work on this project for four months? Like, why is this client's name on my to-do list for four months? Skipper: Right. Stephanie: When it was a two or three-page website, right? What went wrong there? Skipper: Right, right. Stephanie: And I can see that and I can go back and say, What did I need to do differently for that project that I can now go and learn from and do better for the next project? So if I have a two or three-page website, that I need to design, that I can do that in four weeks? Skipper: Yeah. Yeah. Stephanie: So it does have like, larger application for sure. Skipper: Totally. The thing that I'm hearing you talk about when you think about agile processes, there's this idea of when you go through a work sprint -- at the end of handoff, release, testing, wherever it is that you sort of mark that line in the sand is being done. Usually, as a team, you'll have a retro And you'll go through and you'll talk about what are the things that went well what are the things that didn't go well. And it sounds like you also use your to-do list as a kind of feedback session for yourself of you know, why did this item keeps showing up over and over on my list, when you know, I ended up only billing them for two grand or whatever. Stephanie: Yeah, absolutely. It's actually funny you bring that up because I was trained in Agile for a project a few years ago Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: When the sort of McKinsey style of agile, and I really gravitated towards the whole system, and I thought it was really efficient, it was very much based in over communication, asking questions, assuming nothing -- Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: And giving people time to talk. And in a work setting where it's more than one person that is very much what I'm talking about -- constantly evaluating where you are, and how to do it better and more efficiently. That whole idea of blockers is a great concept. And I would even say, motivation is a blocker in itself. And if you have a blocker that you can't release, then you shouldn't work on it. And you shouldn't even spend any time working on it. So it applies to a group setting and to yourself. So in a way, I have been sort of operating on this, like agile, you know, space for my own life. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: We've actually implemented a lot of that at my company as well, right now, especially with retrospectives, I think getting things done is you're not going to get it all done right the first time. And this is such an iterative process. I've been doing this, like I said, for probably two decades, it started with sitting at the dinner table with my parents trying to figure out who was going to pick me up from gymnastics. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: Who is going to get my brother from baseball and what time we were gonna have dinner? And how are we going to watch this program on TV? And is there space on TiVo? And what are we going to get to my grandmother's over the weekend? And all of those different coordinates. It's been going on for a long time. Skipper: When we were initially talking about the topic that you would come on the show to address, the thing that you threw out there was, I'm great at multitasking. And, there's a lot of current wisdom about how multitasking, it doesn't really work in the way that we thought it did once upon a time, the brain doesn't really do tasks simultaneously. But I want to hear from your perspective, what does multitasking mean -- in the world of getting things done. Stephanie: I definitely buy into the fact that multitasking is not a good thing. I believe that focus and full awareness is very important to multitasking, which actually sounds a little counter. So I should probably give you my definition of multitasking. Skipper: Totally. Stephanie: Which is very simple. It's to do many things at once. And really the nuance there is how you define the timeframe of at once, I think clearly in the vernacular since multitasking has this sort of negative connotation but in the vernacular, we really thought that at once meant at this exact moment in time that my brain is focusing on multiple things. There's this graphic that appears if you Google search multitasking of a woman or a man in an office with eight or nine or 10 arms, and they're juggling different things. Skipper: Sure. Stephanie: And that, to me is not what I think of when I think of multitasking. For me, I sort of think that if you're focusing on individual tasks that are in front of you at one given moment, but you are using good time management, and you're using tactics throughout your day to figure out when and how long you should spend on it -- that is kind of the way to actually truly multitask. So I guess to me at once just means when you approach me about what I've done in a day, I can tell you that I've done a lot of different things. And I didn't necessarily do all of them to completion of the entire task, but I did what I needed to do in that exact moment in time for -- Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: And I think that extends to a lot of things. You know, not everything has a very finite start and end. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: So an example of that, for me is even like making my to-do list, I will sit down on a Sunday night and start populating it with what I know. Stephanie: Yeah. Stephanie: And I've heard I've only done -- I've only added to that list what I have information on and I can then stop doing it five minutes later and move on with my evening. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: But that doesn't mean the task is done. It just means it's done for right now. Skipper: Sure. Stephanie: And so you can sort of put it on the shelf and pick it up when something comes up again. This gives me permission to revisit a lot of things throughout the day. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: Another thing that a lot of efficiency project management time management tools we'll have you do is like have different sort of categories of lists. Like I know the Bullet Journal is sort of built-in a way to enable your other thoughts that are populating when things come up. Or, you know, certain time management tools like Pomodoro, or if you're sort of going into a cave like Cave Day, if you're sitting and working for 40 minutes or an hour on one particular task and wipe away all of the distractions, but you have a thought that comes up, you kind of write it down, I think those practices are really good. And they actually enable what my definition of multitasking is because you don't want to forget that stuff, you just need a place to put it. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: And you need a place to put it that's accessible for later. So when you are in the middle of that one particular thing at that exact moment in time, you can still complete it to the level of finish that you were hoping for. Skipper: Yeah. I love hearing that. Because the notion of putting together a to-do list is a guidance. But it's also not an end in and of itself, you don't spend three minutes and you write everything on your to-do list. And that's the end of it, right? At any given point during the day, you throw things on there. And you remember, Oh, I have to do this thing that I totally forgot about or that I will forget about if I don't write it down right this minute, this notion becomes very elastic, the list sometimes can be very small. And sometimes it can be very deep. And like you said, some of those to-do items are actually better suited to be broken up into multiple things. For instance, there's a form that I've needed to like drop in the mailbox. But there are discrete parts to that task, I need to print it out, I need to sign it, put it in an envelope, I need to walk it down to the... So the idea of getting this thing in the mail isn't one discrete piece, there's a bunch of different pieces, and so what I've discovered is that with this particular task, which is taken me two days to do, I needed to break it apart into smaller pieces. Otherwise, it starts to get lost, right? Stephanie: I'm so glad you did that because that's exactly what I'm talking about in terms of knowing yourself and how to organize your day around it. Something like that, for example, could be truly one step for a person who's constantly filling out paperwork and filing things. And that's a system that they're very familiar with. And so they could really put that on their list as mail form. Skipper: Yep. Stephanie: But for you, if that's not a practice that you're familiar with, or it's something that just feels daunting because you don't like all the steps involved, it is actually really helpful to segment it out. I'll give you another example. For me, I love cooking that's why I work in a cookware company. It's very innate to me, I like to just go off the cuff. I probably shouldn't say this, but I can do it while I'm doing other things. Yesterday I prepped the chicken, I preheated the oven, I put it in, I worked out, and when the chicken was done, so was I with my workout. Skipper: Nice. Stephanie: But you know, it's something that I don't actually have to write down all the steps for. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: The grocery shopping part is a little bit trickier for me. So I do actually have to write down, make grocery shopping lists, drive to Whole Foods, get all my ingredients, unpack the groceries into the fridge -- Skipper: Right. Stephanie: Cook dinner. Skipper: Right. Stephanie: So it's really interesting to think about what, like you said, it's very elastic, you need to consider your to-do list where it should be more of an accordion versus where it's just a single bullet point. And that goes to another notion that I use in my life, which is I don't have one sort of format of a to-do list in my life. I have so many. Sometimes I'll have ones just for work. Sometimes I'll have ones just for a single project. And sometimes I'll have a list that encompasses everything I have to do that day. Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: And that could all be those could all be lists that I have for the same day. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: I like making lists. I like seeing the visuals. You know, not I keep bringing up my dad. But I think he's taught me a lot of these things sort of just by either talking about stories or showing me how he's done it. But when he was in law school, he told me that the way he studied for the bar exam was he would make these giant outlines, with all the information from his lectures and classes and everything he needed to know for the test. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: Once he finished that first outline, he would then make a second outline of the first outline. And I would do this multiple times and sort of like a, you know, a nesting doll kind of format until he got to one word. Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: Or one sentence -- Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: Depending on how long the semester had gone, and he would just have this sort of one thing that he could remember that would almost be this accordion that if he could read that he would remember, you know, the most recent outline and then if he could remember that outline, he would remember that line that came before that one and so on and so forth. And that was a way for him to of compartmentalize all the information. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: And I kind of do something similar with my to-do list, you know, I don't have to commit it to memory. I have a phone in front of me all day. Skipper: Sure. Stephanie: But there is this idea of compartmentalizing things and reorganizing things in a way that helps you navigate them. Skipper: So I'm curious because we started this story with your family dinners -- does this practice also manifest in your brother? Stephanie: He's the worst multitasker ever. Skipper: Like worse, he's not very good at it or worse, like, he does it too much? Stephanie: Worse. And he cannot do it. And when he tries, you cannot command his attention whatsoever. Skipper: Oh, interesting. Stephanie: He has to be very plugged in, he is very good at focusing. Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: I will give him that credit. But he really has to do one thing at a time. And that kind of goes to say this just might not be for everybody. And I think that's okay. You know, there are many times where I wish that I could be as focused as my brother was, he works in data analytics, he also is a music producer on the side. Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: And he can sit there for eight, nine hours making music on one day, which is great, because it's something that he loves, but I could never do that for eight or nine hours. There are certain things that I love just as much as he loves music or making music, like cooking, for example, but I still wouldn't want to sit there and do that for eight or nine hours. I think, for me, my body needs to sort of physically move or do something different every so often. And maybe that is another sort of part of my multitasking is understanding not just what commands your brain intention, but other ways to engage your being. Stephanie: Yeah. Stephanie: That, you know, enable you to go about your day. So we have five senses, right? Our minds are connected to all of those senses. But plenty of people read in the bathtub, I'm obviously not one of them. Skipper: Sure. Stephanie: Or they eat a sandwich while they're walking. Skipper: Right. Stephanie: Or they, you know, they work while they stretch. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: So there's certain things that you can do, at the same time still remain focused? Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: The level of focus, I think it is relative. Skipper: Sure. Stephanie: But like I said in the beginning, not everything needs to command your full and highest effort if the juice is not worth the squeeze -- Skipper: Right. Stephanie: If you will. And I think giving yourself permission to maybe lower your focus on certain things. So you can do something else in that time is okay. Contrary to popular belief, I think it's okay. I've certainly -- I'll give you this one -- I once was working on a project for a very large client while standing in line at the DMV. I felt that standing in line at the DMV was not a good use of my time, it was a necessary evil. And I did not want to waste 45 minutes or however long it was not using my time in an efficient way. So I brought my computer, I tethered it to my phone, and I worked away. Stephanie: Yeah, I love that you just brought it back to work. And we've talked a lot about process. And we have lots of examples. But one thing that I'd like to call out working as a designer, you often have demands coming at you from a variety of sources, right? It's not just self-motivated. It's not just from your team, it's from stakeholders, it's from all sorts of different sources. So when your to-do list might not necessarily be of your own generation, how do you manage this? Like how do you stay on top of people throwing priorities at you saying this needs to get done? How do you work that? Stephanie: It's an interesting question. I will say one thing that does not help getting things done is stressing about them. And I am not immune to this. I certainly get stressed. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: I do think that making time for the stress, if you are someone who gets overwhelmed is important because you kind of just have to address it and then move on. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: So sometimes I do give myself permission to just be pissed off for a little bit. Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: And then address it. If you're a doctor in the emergency room listening to this and feel free to cover your ears. Pretty much everyone else like you can take a minute, you can take a beat, you can have a couple of breaths. Skipper: Sure. Stephanie: You can scream into a pillow, you can go for a walk around the block. No one is and no one thing is that important that you have to drop absolutely everything you're doing and do this one thing. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: It's funny. I actually was talking to someone who, whose friend was putting together a team for a COVID response crew. And I was like, that's something that you do have to actually really be on the ball for. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: Maybe maybe not for everyone. But, you know, when multiple stakeholders are throwing things at you, you have to really take a step back and say whatever attitude they're bringing to the request is because it's the most important thing to them, that doesn't necessarily mean it's the most important thing for you at this exact moment. Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: And having some type of field and defense up against that will be helpful. building that shield is the hard thing. So I think the way to go about that, at the very least, is just asking a lot of questions. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: I do find that a lot of people don't give us all the information we need at the get-go. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: And, you know, you asked me, in our list of questions -- what was something I wish I had learned earlier -- this actually goes right back to that, which is I wish that I learned early on that just because someone's been doing this longer than I have. Or just because they've won awards for it. Or just because they make more money or they're more senior does not mean that they've given me all the information I need to get the task done. Skipper: Ah, that's fair. Stephanie: So I do think the best way you can put a defense up is to make sure you have all the information that you need. Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: Two things will probably happen when you ask questions. One is, you may help that person understand that it's actually not that important at that exact moment in time. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: And the other thing is, you'll take a lot of the guessing out of the equation, which tends to take more time than actually doing the task. If you're good at what you do and people are asking you to stop what you're doing to do it, it's probably because you can do it faster than anyone else there. Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: So if you have all the information you need, you will probably be able to do it rather quickly. This actually just happened to me yesterday, we were looking for an asset that did not exist, and we needed a lot of different iterations of it. And that's something that typically I would have a designer do. But I realized that I didn't have all the information I needed from the person that was talking about it. And rather than giving it to a designer to then just answer all those questions all over, I said, let me just ask all the questions that I know will be needed now. Skipper: Sure. Stephanie: And when I found that out, I realized it wasn't a very big project at all. And it was something that I really could do in less than an hour. And I went back to my to-do list, I reshuffled a couple of things, and I found a spot for it. And now it's done. So you know, while that was really important for that person, at that exact moment in time, there were other things that I had going on, and I think talking to each other about it made her realize that she didn't need it at that exact moment. And that, you know, I knew exactly how long it would take me and sort of setting those expectations as well is really helpful. Something I think that scares people is knowing that they need something, but they can't actually do it themselves. And that is oftentimes I think, really embedded in the way that they asked for help. Is that fear of the uncertainty of how it's going to turn out? And I think just having a conversation around, it will make it a lot easier for both people to understand and acknowledge how it's going to get done. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: And you take out so much of the guessing. Skipper: That really makes a lot of sense. Making sure that people can come to you asking for things from a secure place, I think is super important. And that's part of the basic foundations of a working relationship, right? You want to work with someone, you want to come back and work with someone because you know, when they say they're going to do something, they will get that thing done. Stephanie: Yeah. And I think also having conversations around it, when you do it the first time will prime you for a better conversation or better participation in the request the next time around. I think a fatal flaw in the workplace is not understanding each other's languages. I certainly recognize this in some of the organizations I've been a part of. But when you're working cross-functional, it's very easy to make assumptions that you know how people operate and how long things take or how long they should take. And that's a really tricky territory to get into. Understanding how other people operate will also help you understand how you need to operate within the team. I'll give you a great example of something I didn't think would be on my to-do list this past week or so was writing briefs for our holiday campaign. You know, we have a marketing team. And typically they're the ones that are preparing was brief, but we've recently really blown out our creative department. We're working with a lot of people who have creative minds and are coming at it from a really particular place. One that I know because I am and I have been that in that role. Oftentimes things are not necessarily written in the way that the recipient needs to receive them, but rather than the way that the writer needed to write them, these are both really fair and right ways to approach it. But at some point you kind of need to translate the information from the holder to the receiver. And that's something that I recognized was an efficient use of my time because it would save a lot of questions later on. And, you know, while I didn't think that was going to be on my to-do list this week, I recognized if I didn't, I would have a lot of other things on my to-do list in the weeks to come. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: And I'm about to get a puppy and I don't want to have to deal with that. Skipper: I mean, priorities, right? Stephanie: Exactly. Skipper: Let me ask you one more question, Is there anything around the general topic of getting things done or multitasking or to-do lists -- is there something that we haven't talked about that you would like to talk about? Stephanie: There are a couple of tools that I really like to use for getting things done or multitasking if you will. I know, we've talked about the biggest one, which is really my note-taking and my lists that I make. But there are a couple of other things that I really like to do, or just want to note that if you're listening and you want to be more efficient with your time, these have helped me and they may help you. First and foremost, preparation is absolutely key. Skipper: Mm. Stephanie: And I think everyone will prepare differently. As you have all heard, I really like to make lists. And that's my way of preparing. I prepare both at the beginning of the week, I also prepare every day, every morning, and sometimes I even prepare at night for the next day. Skipper: Okay Stephanie: So I like preparing, I like spending the time to evaluate how I'm willing to spend my time. Stephanie: Yeah. Stephanie: Which is very meta. But that is an activity that I like to do. And so I do it. I don't like meal prep. So don't prep in that way. I like to keep my food loose but I like to keep my schedule very concrete. Stephanie: Okay. Stephanie: I know I mentioned this earlier, but I will I cannot stress enough that making lists that already have things crossed out on them is a true joy of my day. Sometimes I even make the list after I've done four or five of those things. And I can cross it out as I'm writing the list. Stephanie: Ah. Stephanie: And that's just the cherry on the top of the list. It does put me in a good mood. I also think reorganizing the list throughout the day. I also want to reiterate that point because things change throughout the day. And there are things that happen that you can't even anticipate. Something I could do better is bake in some time to address slacks, I guess that's what you call them slack messages. One thing I could do better is make time for slack messages for our slack channels. Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: That's something that was relatively new to me in my job that I had to adopt behavior for. And I still think you know, 9-10 months in that I could even do a better job of being on top of those. And that might be something that I need to find time in my day for. Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: Typically, my day is broken up by task and not by hours on the calendar is broken up by our hours, which is the next point I wanted to make, which is I put everything on my calendar. Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: I have a friend that I haven't really been able to lock down some time with over the last few months during quarantine or whatever we're in right now. I message him all the time with my availability -- Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: To have a FaceTime, similar to what I do with work because it's something I want to do. And I know myself -- if it's not on my calendar, I will likely forget it. If it's not on my list, and it's not on my calendar, it's probably not going to happen. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: You don't want to be so prescriptive of your life that you feel like a programmed robot. You have to create some space for spontaneity or just general joy. And I certainly do that. I think seeing a break in my calendar is sort of this, I have this thing that goes off in my mind that's like this would be a good time to FaceTime somebody, I think something that I really enjoy is just talking to the people on my life, frequent basis. So when I see 15 minutes on my calendar that's empty, that's when I'll call my niece and FaceTime with her. But I can't stress enough how helpful it has been to put things on my calendar. I put everyone's birthdays on my calendar now. I don't really like using Facebook, but anyone that I would say hello to on the street, I put their birthday in my calendar. That's kind of the rule of thumb that I use. Skipper: Aw. Stephanie: Yeah. And I don't think you can have too many things on your calendar. And so why not use it as a place to store it also serves as a sort of diary? Which is really, really nice. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: I've actually gotten my boyfriend to finally use the calendar as well. When I first met him. I don't even think he had the app on his phone. Skipper: Okay. I want to clarify one point that you're talking about because you talked about reorganizing your list. So for you, when you look at your to-do list, you've mapped them out in terms of not only is this my to do list, but this is also my plan of attack. I start from the top and I work my way down to the bottom? Stephanie: That's exactly right. Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: And I will also move things from one day to the next -- Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: In my list. Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: I'm just looking at one right now, grab tequila is on one of my lists? I did it, I did it. Skipper: Great. Stephanie: I also will move things from one, we talked about this earlier. But, you know, I have lists that are just for work or lists that are just for a project or lists that are for my life. And I will sometimes move one thing from one list onto another. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: Which is helpful. I sometimes leave some space at the very bottom for like miscellaneous too. Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: But yeah, this is my life, and it's moving. And it's literally living and breathing and doing and so I think the list has to follow suit, you know, it's not so much that the list makes you who you are, but you are dictating the list. And that's actually a really good reason to put things on it that you've already done, because it's not maybe the term to-do list is not really the right thing to call it. It's a diary, a diary that is not prose. It's an outline of a diary. Skipper: Yeah. Yeah, I think I think that's really true. I appreciate you walking us through how you get things done. Are there specific tools that you use that you would like to recommend to people that you've found success with versus others? You talked about your phone, you talked about the calendar -- yeah. Stephanie: Yeah, I think there are a lot of tools out there that have been designed, optimized, and revised for these exact kinds of things. I mentioned the Bullet Journal earlier. Frankly, I've never used it, I think use a similar system on my own. But I know that has been really helpful for people. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: I use some project management software at work like Monday.com. I've used several other ones that I think are helpful, and frankly, they have free versions so if you like that for work, there's no reason that you can't use it for your own life. Skipper: Sure. Stephanie: If you just sort of get over the fact that you're using a project management tool for your life, it will probably help you -- there's no reason to sort of say that you can't use these tools in your, in your social or private life if they actually are helpful. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: I really think everyone needs to find a system that works for them. And so that's why I say the first part is really understanding who you are, and not judging yourself through it. A lot of people would probably look at the bullet journal and say, Oh, why doesn't my mind work like this? Or why am I not using it the way that it's intended, and you kind of get frustrated with yourself. And that's probably why at the end of the day, I've never really gravitated to any of these particular products, I think they're helpful for a lot of people but if you don't fit in that box, that's okay, that doesn't mean that you're not project manageable, or it doesn't mean that you're not an organized person, it just means that you have to find your own process that works. If you don't have any idea where to start, those are really good tools to try but I like a more loose sandbox to plan. So I use the Notes app on my phone for everything. I have a bunch of just regular notebooks that have no lines, no graphs, no dots, no different sort of list styles. It's just blank paper that I like to use. My trusty notebook is with me at all times, I tend to just use it for work. But sometimes I also put personal stuff in there. Skipper: Okay. Stephanie: I use the notes both on my phone and on my computer, go back and forth between them. And then for work, I really love using all the Google Drive stuff. It's just something that, you know, because I use it at work, I think I also use it at home. There's just a lot of consistency throughout my day. And I don't feel like I need to change software or infrastructure for different things if that's working for my mind. So I think the summary of that is any tool that will help you understand how your brain works and how it organizes is a good tool to try. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: And if it doesn't 100% fit your own system. That's okay, you can kind of devise your own. And you also don't have to be married to a system. I think over time, things will probably change. You know, certainly, my life looks a lot different during COVID-19 than it did 8-9 months ago. Skipper: Sure. Stephanie: And I think some of the tools that we're using aren't quite as applicable. And then there are other things that that are. Skipper: Yeah. Did you see on Kickstarter, it was a month or two ago, it was a card-based system so I think they were like 3x5 cards. And the idea is that you had a stack of them. And I mean, it was a very specific, tangible to-do list. And so the idea is that you know, you sat down you made a list of the things you were going to do. And then those things that you didn't get done, you rolled over on the next day. They have this beautiful wooden case and have these custom cards that you know had very specific features on them. You could check off the thing that you completed or you can push something over, or reframe it. And you know, the idea is that, you use this sort of system, this physical system in order to help you get things done. I was trying to remember what it was. And now I don't remember what it is. Stephanie: I haven't actually seen it, although I'm pretty frequent on Kickstarter. So I should probably take a look. But I think that sounds great. And it actually sounds very similar to the system that I've been using. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: And you know, if that is, hopefully, you can find the link and put it in, when the show goes up. But -- Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: If that kind of system is, at all even remotely intriguing, intriguing to people. or interesting, I would say, try it. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: I've personally found that if something is not part of my day to day routine, like, physically, I probably won't interact with it. And so I've found a way to create that exact system you're sort of talking about on my phone, or in my notebook that I put in my backpack. So that's another part of just being honest and true with yourself and saying, will I actually do this? You know, is it gonna be the floss that just sits in the bathroom and doesn't actually get touched? Or is it something that I will have on my person day in and day out? And if it is great, and if it's not, but you buy it, and you try it and you like it, but having that physical thing next to you isn't working? That's okay, too, you can always recreate a lot of these systems and principles on your own with your own tools. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: I think that goes back to general inventiveness or just being scrappy. Or the idea of being resourceful, which is if you're not going to use the floss every day, is there something else that you could use that you have on your person that might work? You know, this is probably a gross example, but if you have a bunch of business cards on you every day, and you've got something in your teeth, you could just use that. Don't judge yourself. If you need a certain behavior to happen, but you're not making it happen with the tools you have, use the tools that you are willing to have on your person and use day in and day out. Skipper: That makes sense. Stephanie: You gotta find something that works for you. Skipper: Yeah, totally. So there, there are a lot more details we could definitely get into and we could definitely spend more time and talk about your background as a designer, like how you came into but we're nearing the end of the scheduled time that we have. So I'd love to you know, you answered one of the closing questions already. But -- where can people find out more about you? Are you online? Do you write? And do you have anything that's coming up that we should be watching out for? Stephanie: Yeah, for sure. So you can find me on the internet and pretty available -- as long as you can spell my last name, you should have no problem finding me. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: My website is stephaniekrivitzky.com. And I have an Instagram, I have a Facebook and a LinkedIn, don't check them all that much. But you can try to find me there and I will respond. Skipper: Yeah. Stephanie: You know, I've been pretty focused on the company. I'm at Misen. We are launching a new website in the next few weeks or months. I'm very excited for everyone to see that. So we're misen.com. If you need cookware, go check it out. Hopefully in the next few months, you'll see a lot of our work live. Skipper: Nice. Stephanie, thanks so much for making time. I quite enjoyed our conversation, and maybe we'll do a part two where we can talk a little bit more about your specific work as a designer. Stephanie: For sure. I would love that. Skipper: And thank you for listening to how this works. This episode was edited and mastered by Troy Lococo. Please find us in your favorite podcast app and subscribe. While you're there, leave us a review. Also, if you could tell just one other person about the show and why they should listen. You can find how this works at howthisworks.show -- three words, no dashes. Again, that's howthisworks.show. We're also in the places where social media happens. Until next time, we'll talk to you later. [Outro music] Stephanie: I will tell you that even my best friend of 14 years told me she wanted to listen to this. Skipper: That's -- Stephanie: Hopefully, it's a good one. Skipper: That's awesome.