[Intro music] Skipper Chong Warson: Hi, my name is Skipper Chong Warson and I'm a design director in San Francisco. Welcome to How This Works. This is a show where I invite people on to talk about something that they know or some topic they know incredibly well. And today I have Amy Kim Waschke with me. Thanks for being here, Amy. Amy Kim Waschke: Thanks, Skipper for having me. Skipper: Can we kick things off by talking a little bit about you. Discovering more about you as a person, sort of who you are, where you've come from? So when you meet people for the first time, how do you introduce yourself? Amy: Hi, I'm Amy Kim Waschke. And I'm an actor. Skipper: Great introduction. So I want to dive a little bit deeper into that, can you tell me just a little bit more? Amy: Sure. I didn't actually start acting until I was in college. When I was younger, I was always in the performing arts, I was a dancer and focused mostly on ballet. And then when I went to undergrad at the University of Washington, I met Robyn Hunt. And she's a teacher who taught a specific physical acting method called the Suzuki method. And this physical method was created by Tadashi Suzuki in the 1970s. And Mr. Suzuki focused on creating certain disciplines to physically strengthen actors because he felt like actors were getting away from their natural, primal, animal instincts. As we a society becomes more civilized, he saw actors becoming more like talking heads, you know what I mean? And so he created a method that was physically rigorous that focused on building a lot of lower body muscle strength, breath control, and being really aware of your of your center of gravity. And because I've been a dancer for so long, Skipper, I was just more adept at this style of acting. And so I got sucked in. Skipper: So that part of being really physical in your body to inhabit a character or to inhabit, potentially, someone that wasn't yourself — that's something that really spoke to you? Amy: Absolutely. And even today, I mean, it is so ingrained in how I work now, how I approach a role that I feel like, I can know — once I'm up on my feet, acting, and away from the table — that's when I feel like I really start to fully embody a character. Skipper: Okay. I want to dive into that a little bit more in just a moment. But I want to round out our introductory part because I know that there are many things about you that are not just about being an actor. What's something that someone might not guess about you? Something you feel comfortable sharing? Amy: I think probably that I'm adopted. Yeah, even though I have a very German last name. I think that people make assumptions that that's a married name. When I tell them I'm adopted, they're always surprised. I think that part of that reason is that for so long Skipper, I really struggled with my identity. And I struggled with this feeling of being not quite... fully Asian. Which — what is that, right? That's such a ridiculous thing. Or somehow not authentically Asian. There are so many different kinds of Asian and, no matter who you are, you are authentically yourself, it shouldn't matter. But I spent a lot of time feeling like I was kind of an imposter. I didn't necessarily want people to think that I was any less Asian than someone who was raised in an Asian American family or an Asian family. Skipper: Sure. And so some people may have guessed already from your middle name, Kim, that — is it fair to say that you are 100% Korean? Amy: Yeah, I was born in Korea — in Mokpo. And I came to the states when I was a baby. So, yeah. I identify as a Korean American adoptee. I'm really proud of who I am. And I'm actually in a really interesting place in my life right now because, you know, the pandemic happened. And I haven't looked for my birth parents before but I started to realize my birth parents could be of an age where they be high risk for COVID-19. And they could have died. Skipper: Sure. Amy: Right. Skipper: Sure. Amy: And so I started to look more into my adoption, and also into the process of adoption itself. And it's been really kind of an eye opening experience for me because I used to feel like I had to be so careful in order not to, you know, hurt my adoptive parents in any way in wanting to know more about my roots. Skipper: Yeah. Amy: And what I've come to realize is that we have — as adoptees — we have every right to know our origins in the same way that biological children do. I have every right to know if I have biological sisters and brothers. Skipper: That's right. Or what diseases or conditions might run in your family. Amy: Sure, medical history. It's been a really interesting process. And I will admit, a somewhat painful process. But I'm glad I'm going through it. Skipper: I would also add that you were incredibly close to your adoptive parents. Amy: I am. Skipper: And because we're recording this episode while the fires in Oregon are happening — Oregon, California and some parts of Washington State — you've actually evacuated your home with your husband and you're with your adopted parents right now in Washington. Amy: It's true. They're upstairs. We're making dumplings today. So, they're working on that and I'm with you. Skipper: Well, Amy, thank you for making time. And we'll get into our conversation and get you back to making dumplings. Amy: Yeah, sure. Skipper: There's so much about being a Korean American adoptee, what you just mentioned, and I feel like we could almost spend an entire episode talking about that — everything from racial identity, to self worth, to cultural identity, what happens in the nature versus nurture tug of war, all of those things — but the thing that we are meant to talk about today is about you being a theatre actor. Amy: Of course. Skipper: So I want to go back to your world then, you were introduced to the Suzuki method when you were at University of Washington, what happens? What happens during that time and what happens after that? Amy: So I started acting and I really, you know, got the bug for it. Not only did I love creating characters and I loved performing — I've always loved performing because of dance but I also loved the people. Theater people are the most fun, entertaining, brilliant people on the planet. And so -- Skipper: Could you give me an example of that? Maybe one person that you've met in your time as an actor or maybe it's a sort of a conglomeration? Amy: I feel that anytime you meet an artist, and especially a theatre artist, they are often the most interesting and brave people you meet. Anybody who has to put themselves out there and give raw or revealing performance — I admire, I so admire that in a person. Also, I just find them often to be really funny, sharp, witty people. And, of course, you want to surround yourself with storytellers, people that have really kind of gift of gab, I love that. Skipper: Yeah. Amy: So, I do theater because I love telling stories but I also do theater because I love making friends, having that community, feeling like you are belonging, and doing something hard together. Skipper: Yeah. Amy: It's exciting. Skipper: And I think there's also something inherently different about a theatre actor versus like a movie/TV actor. On both sides you have a certain amount of preparation that you go through — the rehearsal process, never mind the audition process of actually getting the role. And then preparation for the performance. And then night over night, or afternoon after afternoon, you are inhabiting that character with your company members around you. But you don't necessarily have a director yelling cut, or you don't have, you know, an editor who goes in and recuts the film to make it look a certain way. It is that actor in front of an audience by themselves. Amy: I would absolutely agree with you. And I also think there's that chance to dig deeper each time we, you know, perform a play. I'm a company member at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival and I have been there for five years now. And the brilliant thing about the festival is that — two things — you work in rep, meaning that you do multiple roles over the course of a season. Skipper: Okay. Amy: You know, two to three roles. Skipper: And rep is short for repertory. Amy: Yes, for repertory theater. And so you might be playing, like last year, I was playing Lady Macbeth three times a week, two times a week, and then I was playing the Queen of Hearts in "Alice in Wonderland" two times a week. So you can imagine kind of, you know, the fun of that because, you know, you are allowed to deeply explore both roles as you're performing them many many times. You can do as many as — like one year, I did 227 performances. Skipper: 227 performances. Wow. Amy: Yeah. You know, I did "Julius Caesar" and "Hannah and the Dread Gazebo" — and I did them each over 100 times. Skipper: Wow. Amy: So you get the great joy of working on a character over a long period of time, learning more about them each time, and getting to take a crack at it each night. And then fix little moments each night so that it's deeper, more interesting, and more engaging each time. Skipper: Sure. Amy: And the other joy is that you're really you're enfolded in this company of other brilliant artists and learning from them. And I would say, learning from all of them, not just the veterans who have been there at the company for 20, 25, 30, 35 years, but also from the new people coming in who bring their experience from other places. So it's funny to talk about your work as a family, but I do feel like that's what I get there. Skipper: Yeah. Amy: And I feel lucky to have that. Skipper: Yeah, it sounds like it. So I want you to rewind a little bit and take me from your life at University of Washington — UDub — to Oregon Shakes, what happened to you in between? Because you've been at Oregon Shakes for five years, but that's still fairly new for you, right? That's the most recent thing for you. Amy: Right. So, after the University of Washington, I took a few years off because I had come to acting so late, that I thought, 'Well, I don't know if this is exactly is going to be my life path, especially when you're an undergrad.' Some people know that and I feel like, Wow, those people are so lucky. But for myself, I thought, 'Well, I know I like theater and I know and like acting, but maybe there's something else I can do.' So I took a brief stint working at the Seattle Repertory Theater in their education department. Skipper: Okay. Amy: And I taught a lot of theater. And I thought that was really great. I enjoyed it a lot but I was still performing at night, downtown Seattle theater, and I just did not feel complete unless I was doing a play. So at that point, I decided, three years later, this is going to be my career. So I went back to get more training, and I went to grad school again at the University of Washington. And then as soon as I finished that program, three years later, I moved to New York City, and got an agent and started auditioning out of New York. And this time was actually so formative for me because in grad school you're learning all these different techniques — Suzuki Method, Strausberg Training, and Alexander Method. Which is for those of you that don't know, Alexander is a way of learning to use your body most efficiently, using all your resources to use it. Skipper: Sure. Amy: I was practicing, I learned all of these things, but then it takes a while for you to distill how you are going to approach your work. Skipper: Sure. There's also a difference between the academic training to be initially introduced to a method but then to actually put it into practice, into practical use. Amy: I absolutely agree. And so every show I worked on, every job I got is where you really do the most of your learning. I continue to learn today. I still learn on every single project I have. Skipper: Sure. Amy: Which is good. Otherwise, what a bore I would be. Skipper laughs. Amy: But in New York, I was really lucky because this gal I knew from grad school, Jennifer Gillespie, she had a friend of hers from high school, no college in Toronto. And a friend of hers had a theatre company in New York called the Vampire Cowboys. And she said, I think you should audition for Robert's company. This is Robert Ross Parker, he's one of the artistic directors, and the other is Qui Nguyen. And I said, Okay, I will. And she said, I think you guys would like each other. And I fell in with the Vampire Cowboys. And that was the company I worked with the most in New York. They were my main collaborators. I did several shows with them, countless workshops and salons, and all these different things — which were quite fun. And the thing about the Vampire Cowboys — as you might guess, listeners from their crazy name — is that they were a downtown theater company who had kind of a big cult following because they had their own style of theater that they like to call a geek theater. Skipper: Geek theater? Okay. Amy: Geek theater, yeah. And it was almost like a comic book style of theater and their plays, which were written by Qui Nguyen — some people may know his play "Vietgone" became quite famous. He's also written another play — "Poor Yella Rednecks" — which was done at South Coast Rep last year. His plays really play with style and genre. They're incredible mashups. So, a Vampire Cowboys show will always have a mix of genre, it will always have these outrageous fights, it will have puppetry, it will have singing, it will have dance breaks, it will have raps, it's a big style mashup. They are always funny, touching, and brave. And as an actor, you play five characters each. Skipper and Amy laugh. Amy: You can imagine downtown theater in New York, you're backstage, and you don't really have a crew. You're just wiggling in and out of costumes in the dark as fast as you can. Skipper: Sure. Sounds like a challenge. Both quite a spectacle for audience members but then also quite a challenge for actors as well. Amy: Absolutely. I mean, we wore so many masks in doing that. I feel like I honed my comedy chops that way, but also did a lot of character work. Skipper: Sure. Amy: It's great. And we actually just did a show. I joined them in 2006 and they were happening before that. So they've been around 20 years, I think. And we just did a show at the Geffen Playhouse called "Revenge Song". Skipper: And that's in Los Angeles, right? Amy: That's in Los Angeles. Yeah. And it was a new Vampire Cowboys show. I got to reunite with a lot of my friends, which was really fun. Skipper: That sounds fun. So, University of Washington, New York City, and now you're in Oregon. Amy: I got to Oregon because I wanted to work with Mary Zimmerman. She won the Tony Award for [her adaptation of Ovid’s] "Metamorphosis", I want to say in 2001. She's also won a MacArthur Genius Grant and is an amazing director. And she's known for "Arabian Nights", "Odyssey", and the show I did, "The White Snake". Skipper: Okay. Amy: At the time, I was living in New York, and I was working out of town a fair bit, doing a lot of regional theater and, I'd seen "Metamorphosis" when I was in Seattle, working at the Seattle Rep. And I thought, I love this director, I want to work with this director — when my agent said, 'Oh, you know, the Oregon Shakespeare Festival is doing this new Mary Zimmerman piece. Do you want to audition for it?' I said, 'Well, yes.' I actually didn't know very much about the Oregon Shakespeare Festival and it was Bill Roush, who was the artistic director then who ultimately brought me out and Mary cast me and it was an incredible place to work. And it was a beautiful show. It was based on a classic Chinese fairy tale. The "White Snake" story, and in China it's just about as popular as "Cinderella" is to Americans. Skipper: I see. Amy: It's a very, very popular fable, about a snake spirit who falls in love with a mortal man and decides to disguise herself as a woman and live this happy domestic life with this man she loves. And then this evil monk, which is quite funny, because we always think of monks as being so you know -- Skipper: Prim and proper? Amy: Well, not evil. Or quite good people. [And he] works to separate them. Skipper: Right. Amy: And to reveal her, you know, to him as as the snake spirit that she is. And it's a story about love. And loving someone, no matter who they are, or what they are. It's quite beautiful. And I did that show with Mary, and we ended up touring that show across the country and to China. Skipper: Yeah. Amy: That's how I got introduced to OSF. And so when Bill asked me to come back in 2016, I said yes, because OSF is a very special place. There's very few rep theatre companies in this country. And there's very few Shakespeare festivals that have a resident company of actors. And so, it's very special. Skipper: And for listeners who don't know, can you tell us a little bit more about where OSF is situated in Oregon? Amy: OSF is in Ashland, Oregon. It has an 85 year history. It is... Right now, my community is really hurting because we've been -- I'm sorry, I'm getting upset. Skipper: It's okay. It's okay. Amy: It's been devastated by the Oregon wildfires, the Almeda fire, and the Glendower fire. And fortunately spared Ashland but because of the north blowing winds that were so strong, it ripped through our neighboring towns of Talent and Phoenix. And so many of my company members — the Oregon Shakespeare Festival is a big organization and it has 550 employees. And so many people in our community lost their homes and we're experiencing some deep loss and some terrible smoke — toxic dangerous smoke. And right now, I will say the upside about it is that I have been so proud of our company members because they leapt right in and created an OSF safety net committee that is doing incredible work, fundraising for those have lost their homes, creating a donation center, a food bank — and I'm not just talking about just for OSF people, I'm talking about for the community at large. Skipper: Sure. And this is — the wildfires that have very recently occurred — on top of what's going on in this country around COVID-19. Amy: Skipper, it's been a year. Skipper: What an understatement. Amy: It's been one of the most challenging years that I can remember. Both personally and professionally. And then the pandemic, which has stopped all live — pretty much — live theater across the country. And I think there's been such a focus, especially by our president to preserve the economy. And they're allowing so many people to die, just as long as our economy is strong, the stock market is strong. But there will never be a true recovery for our country until we also recover the arts and culture. Skipper: Sure. Amy: It's a huge industry, $877 billion. That's what it brings to our economy. And it employs 5.1 million people. Skipper: Wow. And we're not just talking about actors such as you are, we're talking about people who work backstage, we're talking about people who work in the administration offices, we're talking about folks who run the theater themselves, folks who come in and they they clean after a performance, or light operators. There's a ton of people who work in these fields, who have spent years perfecting their craft as well. Amy: That's so true. Yes, we are the most public face — in terms of arts workers, actors certainly can be. But I would say, just to remember how many people it takes. That's what I wanted to say, the Oregon Shakespeare Festival employs 550 people, and just know the acting company is only usually about 100. Skipper: Wow. Amy: There's all those people backstage and in production, who build the sets and build the costumes. And development who raise the money so we can put on the plays. There's all of those things. And of course, that's so true in all arts organizations, and certainly, in our film industry, too. Now, where was I going with this? I was gonna say, we are having a very tough year because of the pandemic and then the wildfires that are burning through California, Oregon, and Washington are also greatly affecting things. And I'm just so hopeful that come November, we will vote in the Biden-Harris ticket. Skipper: Yeah. Amy: And have real leadership in the White House. And hopefully, someone who listens to Dr. Fauci who does think that live theater will be... it won't go back to the norm of what we remember of full capacity theaters. But there will be a time in 2021 where Dr. Fauci thinks somewhere in the middle to late part of the year that people will be able to socially distance within the theater, wearing masks, and it will be different, but I know that live theater will always prevail. And this is why I know — think of how long it's already prevailed. The Greeks, Shakespeare -- all of that has existed for a reason. We as humans, we need the theatre to process our times, to process what is happening to us now, even if it's a historical play. All those things that Shakespeare wrote about, those are universal human problems. Skipper: Sure. Amy: And we are still, you know, with those problems, sadly, grappling with many of them. And we need theater to go to move us, to change us, and hopefully learn something new. I think it's definitely a cathartic experience. And I think what's so interesting about theater is that we as humans have these mirror neurons. Have you heard about mirror neurons? Skipper: I have, but I'd love for you to talk a little bit more about it for folks who haven't. Amy: Sure, so we have these in our prefrontal cortex. All our neurons are firing. So anytime, I (or you) go to lift a pencil or a cup of coffee, or do something like that, those neurons are firing. When I watch someone do that very same thing, my mirror neurons are firing and they're telling me what's it like to do that, they're giving me a virtual reality simulation in my mind of what that is. Skipper: Yeah. Amy: And so when people go to the theater, we can watch somebody on stage lose a child. Or dissolve a marriage. Or hold the hand of their father as they're dying. Skipper: Yeah. Yeah. Amy: And we can empathize with that. And know how it feels. And maybe have our own personal catharsis. Skipper: Yeah. Can you tell me, Amy, what's a principle that you always follow in your work as a theatre actor? Amy: Hmm. I try always to be honest in the moment. I strive to be as present with my scene partner as I possibly can be. I try to remember that it is me but I just happen to be going through these circumstances that the character is going through. Skipper: Sure. Amy: I try to bring as much of myself to it as possible because that's what makes it human and interesting. I try to remember to be generous with myself. I think that's so hard, actually. Because I absolutely know that I am my absolute worst critic, but I have to leave a project and say, 'Okay, you know, I learned this, and I learned that, and next time, I'm going to give it another go.' And if you can't be generous with yourself, then actually, I don't know how you do the career. I don't know. Because there's so much rejection in it. There's so much 'no' — from the auditioning level and then you've got critics who may give you a great review sometimes, or maybe give you terrible reviews. And then you have to be like, 'Okay, that's that person's opinion.' Skipper: That's right. Amy: And generous with myself and also generous with others too. Skipper: Yeah. So I know that we are in a very challenging time in terms of the recent fires in the West, the pandemic that's still raging. Talk to me a little bit about what is what is your larger goal that you want to achieve as an actor? Amy: It's funny, because I've always just wanted to be a working actor. (Laughs.) I know that sounds very, you know, but I've always wanted to be working on projects that I think are interesting. And as I've gotten older and further on in my career, that's more possible. Like I can say no to things that don't speak to me — not that they're bad projects but that maybe I read the script, and I'm like, 'Yeah. That just doesn't set the fire in me.' Skipper: Yeah, doesn't strike a chord. Amy: And that's the thing that I'm always kind of looking for because when you do find the right project and you happen to be with a great cast and maybe you also have a brilliant director and you have an amazing team of designers and the producers are great and everything just comes together, there is something that feels like magic. It's kismet, it's something so unexplainable and exciting that when you have one of those shows, I mean, that's the thing. I feel like that's what I'm always chasing because you don't have that many experiences in your career. I could probably name only maybe three experiences and I've been at this 20 years, right? Where I felt like everything came together to make something that was truly special. And so it's like I'm an addict, like I'm chasing that high of that magic performance. Skipper: So, if your current number is three, you want your four and five? Amy: I defnitely want my four and five. Heck, I want a hundred. I'm gonna keep acting Skipper until I can't remember the lines anymore. And even then, I know I'm gonna fight hard. I'll just probably like write them on my hand. And try to fake it until you make it. But you know, that's the thing. It's so funny, people are like, 'Well, you know, whatever, you know, when you retire at 65'. And I'm like, 'I'm not gonna retire at 65. I'm gonna keep acting until I literally cannot speak anymore. Or move anymore. Or you know...' It's going to sound so cheesy, but it's where I love myself the most. Skipper: Yeah. Amy: Being an artist is so tied into who I am. And it's tied into my humanity and my integrity and my activism, everything. So, I'll stop when I drop. Which hopefully won't be anytime soon. Skipper: Knock on wood. I would offer that that's such a wonderful counterpoint and to how you started. And what a great discovery because when you first started acting, you were unsure about whether or not this was something you wanted to do. Amy: Oh yeah. Skipper: And now you are fully cemented and firm. And you're going to do this as long as you possibly can. Amy: Thanks for reflecting that back to me, Skipper, because I actually haven't thought about it that way. And that's really true. Yeah, I guess I think that I've been thinking about how important it is to me more now because of the pandemic. And because I haven't had the same — as many — opportunities to do it. And, of course, I'm doing my best, like many theater actors. We're doing a lot of Zoom readings or performances. And that medium, I'm learning a lot about that medium, which I do find tricky because I am such a physical actor and to feel a little boxed in by the computer screen. I'm flexing a new muscle, essentially. And it's good to learn, great to learn. Skipper: Always good to learn. Amy: But I think it's my longing for live performance that's been hard on my heart. And I can't wait until we get back to it, but of course, I will wait until it's safe to do so. Skipper: Yeah. Is there anything else in thinking about the acting component, is there anything else that you want to talk about? Is there anything that you feel like we've missed in our conversation? Amy: There was one thing I wanted to bring up about advice. Like if there was some advice for folks that are starting out as actors and trying to figure out how to go about it. I would say a couple of things. One, know that eventually — kind of like Ira Glass says — when you start something, your taste level is very high, but then, you know, your skill level doesn't quite meet your taste. Skipper: Sure. Amy: And it will get better, the more and more you do it. And your skill will at some point meet your taste level. Of course, I'm telling you this, even though I myself feel like I have not met my taste level yet, but that's good. You know, keep learning. Skipper: Right. Amy: And then I would say, if you're thinking about graduate school, I would say definitely go to grad school in the town that you think you might want to work. Some place near because you'll get a chance to build your network of casting directors and directors earlier. And playwrights too because they will have a chance to get to know you while you're in school. And you'll be a step ahead of other folks when you get out. And then I would say, Be kind to yourself and remember you're not in competition with anyone else. It's just with yourself. Don't beat yourself up. Skipper: It's challenging to play that game of 'What if?' What if I would've landed that role? What if someone would've discovered me in the right way? But the reality is that you have to keep working with the people around you because you're not competing against them. Well, you are in a way because there's a finite number of roles but you're actually working with them. This is part of your community. And there are all sorts of reasons why a role or a production doesn't come to fruition. Amy, I love your advice about nurturing your commmunity and really making sure that you're giving as much as you're receiving in that moment. Amy: As I told you before, the reason I got into [theatre] is because of the people. I love actors. I love artists. And so that means when I go into the audition room, maybe I'm in the waiting room and I see the group of gals who are my type, I'm always happy to see them. I always want good things for them. I want us to rise up together. Skipper: Such a great metaphor. So we could talk on and on about acting but I want to bring things to a close. And so as my last question to you, what's something you wish you would've learned earlier? What's a life lesson you carry with you now? Amy: I think it has a lot to do with where we are right now with the pandemic and with what happened in Oregon with the fires but I've been feeling a lot of fear and anxiety. And what I've been really trying to do is meditate more and really question what the fear is based in? Are these wild assumptions that I'm having? Or some of it, if you look at the news, it does feel very real. Skipper: Depending on which channel you are watching as well. Amy: That's true, very true. But I think that the main thing is you can't live that way, it's not healthy to live that way. I've seen people who've been so twisted by fear, people I'm close to, and I don't want to conduct my life that way. So every time something like that comes up for me, I'm really trying to ask myself, Amy, is this based in reality? Is this in your mind? And I extrapolate it out. What does it mean if this is a silly fear? What does it mean if you think you've offended that person? If it's really bothering you, you should ask them directly or you need to let it go. Skipper: Sure. Not sit with it and carry that with you. Amy: And so in a time where we're feeling a lot of anxiety, a lot of us are, I'm trying to get regrounded and parse out what is real and what is my wild imagination — which is helpful. And then also be really compassionate with myself. I talk about generosity a lot because I struggle with it a lot. I would say that I am someone who is more generous to another person than I am to myself. And so that's something I'm trying to do everyday. Skipper: Yea, be a little kinder. Amy: Mm-hm. Skipper: To yourself and other people as well. Amy: And other people. But, you know, to myself. Skipper: Well, Amy. I think this is a good place to pause our conversation. Where can people find out more about you and what you're up to next? Amy: You can find me at my website, amykimw-dot-com. Skipper: Nice. You know, I made a note while you were speaking, I only hope that I do credit to our conversation in a way that makes it accessible and useful to other people because as a theater actor, as my friend, and an awesome person in the world, I learned so much about you today. And thank you for making time and space to talk to me. Amy: Thanks. I'm sure you will. You're so smart. Skipper: Well... We're talking about that skills-confidence mismatch, right? Amy laughs. Skipper: I have the confidence, for sure. Amy laughs. Skipper: Thank you again, Amy. I won't keep you from making dumplings with your parents and Moses. Amy: I'm always happy to chat with you. Skipper: Thanks for listening to How This Works. Please subscribe and leave us a review in your favorite podcast app. This is our first episode and so it would be very helpful if you could tell one other person about the show and why they should listen to it. You can find How This Works online at howthisworks.show, three words, no spaces. Again, that’s howthisworks.show and also in the places where social media happens. Thanks for listening. I hope that you got as much out of the show as I have in making it for you. And we’ll talk again soon. [Music outro.] Amy: When you're in the audience, and let's say you're watching Macbeth. Skipper: Okay. Amy: Or I should say, the Scottish play. Skipper: That's right, we don't say the name of the play. Amy: For anyone who's superstitious... Amy laughs.