Sean + 2
 Sean Tibor: [00:00:19] Introductionshello and welcome to teaching Python. This is episode 44 communicating with video for effective learning, and Kelly's looking at me, she's saying, is it 43 four 44 I can tell I'm joined by my cohost, Kelly Paradis. My name is Sean Tibor. I'm a coder who teaches.
Kelly Paredes: [00:00:36] And I'm Kelly, and I am a teacher who codes.
Sean Tibor: [00:00:39] We're joined this week  by our good friend from real Python.  Welcome, Christopher. How are you?
Christopher Bailey: [00:00:44] Hey, I'm doing great.
Sean Tibor: [00:00:46] so Christopher Bailey from real Python is a video editor, the host of the new real Python podcast. and he's here to talk with us today about how we can use video to more effectively teach and communicate as educators.
So following up on our conversation last week with David Amos about written communication, it's a really great time to start talking about how we can use video to. Learn more effectively or get our students to learn more effectively. So, Christopher, welcome. It's great to have you here.
Christopher Bailey: [00:01:15] Oh, thanks. Thanks for inviting me on.
Sean Tibor: [00:01:17] Christopher, before we get started, just to give us a little bit of a background, how did you get into Python?
How did you get into podcasting? just a little bit of  background, for our listeners to let them know who you are and where you're coming from. 
Christopher's StoryChristopher Bailey: [00:01:28] So, I have a very, really varied programming background. I started as a kid,  , trying to type in code and do an Apple two with a friend. And then I ended up getting a Caleco vision. I don't know if you remember that game platform. my parents decided to buy me the Adam, which attached to the Caleco vision, which is like a crazy cobbled together, , based on Apple too.
But anyway, so I Did some basic programming on that. Everything from   trying to make little games to dungeon and dragon, , automatic character generator or things like that. So, I went to S to college and studied engineering for a little while. and there I learned a little bit of Fortran and C I dropped out of college and pursued music and was in bands and all that sort of stuff and didn't really get to back into programming until my wife.
Was working in banking and mortgages in Hawaii, and, she needed somebody who knew SQL. And so, I basically taught myself SQL and pounded away on that and was tasked with having to rebuild an entire mortgage database from raw tables into usable forms and, tools for the other members of the team.
It was a really fast and quick way to have to learn SQL and build something useful out of it. From there. I took a job, that required Python. And again, so I just immersed myself in learn Python to be able to do a marketing gig at another bank in Hawaii. And, kinda fell in love with Python. And from there, I got contacted, I was on the mailing list for dance stuff and he sent out an email once saying, Hey, is anybody interested in doing video courses?
This is about a year ago. And. It was like all the different things that in my background, everything from, , audio and being an audio engineer to dabbling in video for many, many years and loving teaching. I taught at a school for recording engineers for about 10 years and in between all those things, and, it was a neat way to kind of get back into teaching and what a better way to learn Python than to teach it, which I'm guessing you guys are probably super familiar with.
So,
Kelly Paredes: [00:03:33] the only way to learn it. I think for
Christopher Bailey: [00:03:34] yeah, it's, it's pretty powerful. And so, , I started creating courses there. And after a year or so, I've done about, 11 courses. And Dan asked me recently to take over the whole video queue. So my job now involves reviewing everyone else's work, before it gets to an editor. And then, even after the editor.
And so I get to see a lot more courses and, and, and then as we were talking about earlier, I. Talk to Dan in December and said, why doesn't real Python have a podcast? And he said, well, I don't have the time. And I said, well, I dabbled in podcasting and I, I would love to do it, ? And he's like, great.
So basically we split the work and he did all the stuff involving the back end and hosting. . Creating the feeds and all that kind of stuff, and I focused on how to record it and how to find guests and edit and all that sort of stuff. And episode five came out today, which is really cool.
And so it's been a lot of fun.
Kelly Paredes: [00:04:39] Cool. Congratulations on that.
Christopher Bailey: [00:04:41] Yeah. Thanks.
Kelly Paredes: [00:04:42] we definitely appreciate  the difficulties and everything. Getting a podcast.
Christopher Bailey: [00:04:48] Yeah. Well, I appreciate the question, Sean, that you sent in from you guys and, I, I've been reusing that, that question for a couple of episodes now, so,
Sean Tibor: [00:04:55] Nice.
Kelly Paredes: [00:04:56] Excellent.
Wins of the WeekSean Tibor: [00:04:57] Well, well before we get too much further, I do want to start us with the win of the week. It's our favorite way to start the week on something positive that's happened inside or outside of the classroom. And this week, because the Corona virus continues, we're all outside of the classroom, so it's pretty easy to, to, break that down.
But, Christopher, we always make our guests go first on the one of the week. So you're up, we're looking for something positive that's happened for you, in the past week or so.
Christopher Bailey: [00:05:22] so I've been reaching out on Twitter to find more guests. And I, communications have been odd during the career on dividers as far as like, misconnections and emails and all that kind of stuff. And so I finally was able to get a couple of people to record. And, one is a Lucas longa, creator of black.
He's also the maintainer for Python and release manager for three, eight, and three, nine. And we had a. Awesome conversation was really, really great. I'm super excited to share that. It's coming up soon. And so that was a lot of fun. he does a talk about async IO and, using music to explain it. And I think it's a really great way to explain async IO.
It helped me understand it. I own the same piece of hardware that he has, which is this thing called a, novation circuit. So I was able to take his, his code and actually run it on my machine, which was really, really fun. And so that was a. One of the big wins, and then I just recorded, just before we started talking with Tanya Allard, so I was very excited to get two big recordings done and get those ready to go for the future.
Sean Tibor: [00:06:26] That's awesome. Yeah. We can't wait to hear those.
Christopher Bailey: [00:06:28] Yeah. Cool.
Sean Tibor: [00:06:29] Yeah. so I'll go first cause I'm gonna make Kelly do the fail of the week. first all, let her have the, third seat on the win of the week. so for, for me, the one of the week was working with one of one of my students.
so we just started a new. course rotation this week or two weeks ago. So this is the second week of it. So students had, have had a bit of Python last year with, with Kelly, but have been at least a year since they have touched it. Right? So a lot of these students are doing heavy review and starting from scratch and everything.
And I have one of my students that, I've worked with throughout the year as part of my advisory group. She is a new student this year. So she didn't even have the Python programming that Kelly was giving the students last year. And she has just been on fire this quarter in terms of getting things going and figuring out, all the problems.
And, and I gave them a challenge yesterday to create a useful calculator. So they learned all about data types and inputs. So they. Prompting user for a couple of inputs. They have to convert it to the appropriate data type, like a float or an N depending on the problem, and then spit out the answer and using like an F string to make it user friendly.
So, pretty good basic challenge and everything.  I tell them things like, you can assume that the, if you tell the user they have to type in a number, that they'll type in a number. You don't have to do a lot of validation or anything like that. But, this particular student had gone so far and had done such a beautiful job with her code that I challenged her and said, okay.
Now here's a link to the Python documentation around errors and exceptions. Go figure out how to make this work so that, if a user types in a non numeric value or it can't convert it to a float or an ENT,  give them an error message and make them do it again. And she, I sent it over to her.
I got an email back that said, thanks. And then about 45 minutes later, I got an email back in all caps that said, I did it with exclamation points and everything, and it felt so good because she was so excited about about these things, and I was one of those moments where I kind of figured if she's getting excited about input validation, like I think we have, I think we have another good coder coming.
Kelly Paredes: [00:08:26] That sounds good. It sounds like about, the short film that I was watching last night about validation guy, and it was co, it was a sticker like you come in to get your ticket, validate it, and he was coming up and saying, you're so beautiful. You have great cheekbones. What a great tie. And now it's like those validations for these kids when I get something work.
You're such a great coder. You're so awesome. I'm so proud of you.
Sean Tibor: [00:08:48] It was, it was pretty cool. And I, it's been a lot of that this week. those, the students have been doing everything from, score calculators for their FIFA video games to, actually all their physics equations that they've been having to learn this year in their physics class. They've been putting all those in, so power and Newton's laws and stuff like that.
They've been, I've been seeing a lot of calculators with those, so they really got into it this weekend. It was a lot of fun.
Kelly Paredes: [00:09:10] That's awesome. Well. I'm with my sixth graders who've never coded before and I go through the first four weeks of, I'm not going to say hell, but it is pretty bad in the first four weeks sometimes for sixth graders. Cause I was like, I'm so confused and I banned those words.
Sean Tibor: [00:09:27] to, like, you whip them into shape in those first four weeks about like, , getting them trained on how to ask
Kelly Paredes: [00:09:33] I'm like, stop, say, stop telling me you're so confused. I said, you've only been coding seven days. If I give you seven days of Spanish and throw you in South America, in the middle of the of the Amazon forest, you're not going to be able to speak too well to the Spanish people. But now I do have a couple of wins, but.
I'm going to go with the low end of my wind with the kids, the sixth graders. So I actually tweeted this, I gave the assignment, we've learned variables, just basic variables. Basic four loops, basic input. that's pretty much it in print statement functions and a little bit of F strings. I love teaching F string straightaway because I don't have to deal with anything else with the, with the casting of, of the variables.
So I give them all this basic and I say, just write some code. You have to what? Write 25 lines of code using all of this. And I get some funny things. Like one of the kids says, how many times do you want the word dolphin repeated? because his favorite team is the Miami dolphins. And then the other kids like, has a question with, hi, I'm your computer.
Do you have any pets? And, and the answer comes back, you cool? I have a robotic fish. And it's just silly things that these kids come up with that make no sense of. they have so much fun and I love reading their code. I had one kid code 28 lines of code of, of Dawn since stuff about guessing games and jobs and yeah, that's my fun wins of the week.
It's just random code that gives you giggle, so nothing too, too exciting on my end.
Fail of the WeekSean Tibor: [00:11:05] Well, Kelly, we'll, we'll keep your rolling with the fail of
Kelly Paredes: [00:11:08] Oh my gosh. Oh, fails a week. I think I broke two computers into an a week. My F my fail is I tried to run the mail where bites and I found nine. I guess they're called PLPs. What are PLPs or some sort of virus? I don't know what I found.
So I've, I've been breaking computers here at home, left and right. It's always, I've got two left.
Christopher Bailey: [00:11:33] okay.
Sean Tibor: [00:11:35] well on my, on my side, no computers broken. But, we did have a beard growing competition going, for the last few weeks, among some of the, the guy teachers in the middle school. And my fail was when my daughter came up to me and she says, why are you doing a beard growing competition? And I said, because it's kind of fun and , we don't have to be out anywhere or anything like that.
We can, we can do it. She's like, yeah. You're losing, right. She's six. So there no filter. So that was my fail. I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So Christopher, over to you.
Christopher Bailey: [00:12:12] Yeah. my fails kind of an ongoing fail that I've been dealing with on my Mac, kind of a computer issue. I, it's, I don't know. I don't think it's old, but I guess five years is old for a computer. But it, I start having problems with trying to record videos , stuff we're talking about, which is going to be a little taxing on your computer.
And, I was getting errors and I was having crashing programs and so forth. And, the computer came with something called a fusion drive, which is. A common thing that comes on a backwards, like an SSD in a spinning drive. Anyway, so I felt like this thing is on its last legs. So I said, all right, let's back the whole thing up and I'm going to buy an SSD.
And, another job I've had is I worked at Apple, in retail. I was one of their trainers for awhile, and then they asked me to do the genius thing, and so I got really good at repairing their computers and that sort of stuff. And so I, Was like, Oh, I could do this myself. So I hadn't worked on this model of iMac before, but I bought the kit to open up the screen and pull it apart and all that sort of stuff.
And, I put in my own SSD. All right, where's the fail come in? Well, I said, our, I'm gonna start out with. Nothing on it, just be completely clean and that way I'll know, , all these applications are going to work perfectly and so forth. And then when I eventually went back to try to start pulling pieces of data that I really wanted back from my time machine drive.
It wouldn't let me access any of it. It's like you don't have permission. You don't have permission. You don't have permission. Was like, ah. And so, I had, backed up my photo library separately and I had backed up my document dive very separately. So I had like really crucial things, but then I had to go on, I had another backup through Backblaze and I was like downloading individual files and it was taking forever.
So I thought about getting a drive from them, which I guess is an option. But, so I'm still kind of dealing with that. Like my, My computer isn't completely backing up, which is making me nervous as I've created a lot of content, a lot of other things. So I need to get out of this fail though. I literally turn on my machine today.
It's like it did not back up. I'm like, all right, I'm going to have to start all over and, declare bankruptcy, backup bankruptcy start from beginning. So, maybe I could turn into a win.
Sean Tibor: [00:14:19] yeah. Those are all they all turn into such time sucks when you're trying to deal with like backups and the amount of data that we're shuffling around now. It's like, it feels like you just spend hours trying to get yourself back to a usable state.
Christopher Bailey: [00:14:29] Yeah, totally.
Kelly Paredes: [00:14:30] Maybe that's why my computer's been breaking. Maybe I'm doing something wrong with all my video recordings so.
Sean Tibor: [00:14:36] well, I don't know that my, my track record is not, not better than Christopher's, in terms of, iMac repairs. I, I was repairing my inlaws and, and the, the one they had had, a screen that you have to take off to get access to the hard drive and everything that's in there. So it got the hard drive in, and then I realized, Oh, it has to.
 be, it's not like you can screw it back in. You actually have to use this like adhesive strip to hold the screen in place, which I didn't have. So I
Christopher Bailey: [00:15:00] At least like clamps or something.
Sean Tibor: [00:15:02] blue painter's tape on it to hold it in place until, until the adhesive strips would show up. So the adhesive strip show up, I pull the whole thing out, I'm ready to go, and I slipped out of my hand and dropped in the tempered glass, just like shattered everywhere.
So, so that was another , trip to eBay to find a replacement screen. So, so Kelly, I don't, I think you should leave it up to maybe the professionals.
Kelly Paredes: [00:15:25] yeah. I'm not touching that. I'm just going to keep working through all the max that  at least I have. I had had three. No, I had to got over another one. I'm going to be working on a Chromebook by the end of the week. Watch out. I don't know. We'll code on rep lid or something. I'll let you guys know how that works.
Sean Tibor: [00:15:41] it totally works. There's so many ways to code Python now.
Using Video to Teach
Kelly Paredes: [00:15:44] All right. Let's get on with this craziness.
Sean Tibor: [00:15:46] do this. Okay. So, we are here to talk about videos. The last week we talked with David Amos from real Python about written communication, and that was really coming from a place of, , in a re remote learning, in a distance, learning, distributed learning environment, whatever you want to call it.
the importance of written communication and documentation is extremely valuable as we go from the classroom where we're all face to face and we have that rich communication, but it's very. Informal in some ways and verbal. We're switching over to now where everything has to be communicated in some form online, whether it's in a live zoom meeting or email or other posts.
And so we thought that as a nice compliment to the written communication episode that we did with David last week. we asked Christopher to join us to talk about video content creation, and we're not going to get into  intermediate and advanced video production, so occupied  high end cameras or things like that.
We've probably strayed too far. but for most teachers, recording lessons, recording videos for students is something that they may not be familiar with or comfortable with. And so even just starting at the beginning of how do you record or create good video content for your students to learn is our goal today.
So that's our plan.
Kelly Paredes: [00:16:58] Yeah. And also just to add in, we're kind of looking at this humanizing. This, this connectiveness, because David made a really interesting point last week, was the zero visual cues. As teachers, we're used to being able to say something and read the kid's face and say, Oh, okay, we can go back. Oh, you don't get it.
I'll go back and we're doing this in written communication and I'm trying to make, and I know other people are making screencasts and video tutorials. But we're just trying to make some sort of connectedness with our, with our students who are missing us. I like to believe they're missing us, but missing us and, and trying to keep that, that personality.
So that's kind of a goal, I think for a lot of teachers.
Where do you start with Video?Sean Tibor: [00:17:46] Yeah. So Christopher, I guess the, where we start with us is  where do you, where do you begin when you're looking to create a piece of video content? Where does the production process or preproduction process start, in order to get things going with creating a new piece of video content.
Christopher Bailey: [00:18:03] Well, I have this huge advantage of working for real Python. And since that we are taking a lot of the written articles in our case and using that as a basis to build a video content on. So all the things that David spoke about of. , working on the outline, all those editing steps, all those things have happened.
And now we're looking at making it more visual, making it more interactive, potentially walking people through the code in a much more visual fashion. Those are the steps that we really have to sort of focus on. And so I still go back and start off with an outline. I really believe in. Having multiple ways of explaining something.
I'll start with having the outline first of having, I'll explain something in slides. It could be a PowerPoint or, we've been using Google slides lately. I have my own frustrations with Google slides, but, I come from an Apple background, so I was using keynote and kind of going back and forth between those, depending on if I want to do sort of animations and fancier stuff.
but I like to explain the concept first in the slides. , beyond just outline of actually okay. Show, , maybe it's. maybe it's a method, , like I'm teaching about, let's say list methods or something like that. So I'll have it written out there in front of them and then speak about it a little bit before I jump into a live session.
this is a personal opinion,  I like to show multiple ways of getting into something. And so it's kinda like a. tell them what you're going to tell them, tell them, and then tell them what you told him. Kind of like those three things that you hear sometimes. And I definitely try to practice that.
Actually. I don't if he gives, I've seen a few of the creations. I've have
Kelly Paredes: [00:19:51] I've actually watched list today and yesterday.
Making Interactive ContentChristopher Bailey: [00:19:54] Oh, okay, cool. Yeah, so I, I go through this. I actually added my own stuff, and I'm really deep into final cut and that sort of stuff, but I like to give an overview and show what you're going to get into. And for a few reason courses, I really want to get people kind of amped up, like I did one on high game.
And so I want to get them excited about, well, this is what you're going to see and  actually show the finished product. And so it's kind of like that. Tell you what you're going to tell him kind of thing. And then I did one on Arduino, which is the most recent one I did. And that one is probably the fanciest I've ever been with video.
I actually, it's only using iPhone, but, I'm , shooting it in fourK  and then editing and doing picture and picture and getting way more elaborate than you want. But. When I started, the whole first thing was like, okay, I'm gonna explain on the slide what we're going to talk about, and then switch into typically a live rebel session that's been, depending on the concept of, it's more in the basics, which is I think where you guys mostly focus on.
Live Coding with BPythonI really like to use. A live coding tool called  Python. I know there's other ones, like I Python can help with this. I know you guys mentioned that you're using a Mac. It works really well on a Mac. It's a little hard on windows. there's this library called the curses that's not part of the distribution for windows, and it's a little hard to get around it.
But what's nice about it is like something like vs code or some of these more advanced, integrated development environments where they have code completion and give you hints and things like that. B Python does that, and I like how it does it. It's, it's really nice. As you type something out, it'll show, the whole, description of, , what this method's going to do as you go, and it'll show all the arguments.
So I can just, instead of rapidly typing, I can just stop at the dot and then it'll actually show me all of the methods , here's what it can do. I put the method in, put in the parentheses, then it actually will show. The arguments, the parameters that I can put in. And so I'll talk about them. And so I kind of, I'm a person who speaks fairly quickly and I've actually heard that complaint occasionally on my videos.
it's pretty rare. I think it's one of these balancing acts. I'm a person who listen to podcasts at high speed, but I probably couldn't listen to mine at high speed. So, and we have a real international audience. And so I think that's one of those kinds of things where you've got to figure out, especially with probably students were.
Where it works as far as speed, but I like to especially pause and show those things. And then the other thing that I really want to show in this process is, it going correctly, but then also showing the things that will fail and go wrong. I think that's a big part of it. They definitely do that a lot in the articles also. But I, I think there's two schools of thought in a lot of the video courses at real Python, there's a school of thought of, let's simplify the concept because it's a really long article, and I want to just get these key ideas out to you, so that somebody can digest it in  a half hour or something like that, or , a couple of short little bites.
And then there's a different school of thought, which is kind of my more school of thought is I want to expand on what the written stuff is showing, because that article is still there, but I want to show more visual examples. I want to show more potential pitfalls that people are going to fall into.
And so, I try to try to show those, or if you make a mistake. I would argue not to freak out and show the error. Show them, show the mistake. Show what the machine's telling you. We just did a podcast episode with the, with Martin about this, that errors are your friends. they're not, they're trying to yell at you or be mad at you.
They're just trying to. Point out, Hey, , something happened here. And as you start to realize that sort of friendship and develop it a little bit further and kind of hear what the communication is, it's a real great way to kind of build on top of that. And I, aye. So that's one of the steps I kind of follow in that, 
Sean Tibor: [00:23:53] So just to, to kinda summarize,
Christopher Bailey: [00:23:55] yeah, sure.
Video is a Showing MediumSean Tibor: [00:23:55] started with the, , the beginnings of this with starting with the outline and starting with, , the, the pieces that you want to cover. from there that works. It sounds like it turns into how, , like how, what kinds of things do you want to show in video?
Right? Because it says it's a showing medium. , it's easy to write things and have people read it clearly, and it's not easy to write things, but that's the goal is to, to write it out and let people read it and follow along and skip back and forth and everything. But. With video, you have that sight, sound and motion where they can hear you talking through it.
They can see what you're doing. They can see the change occur. I think that like, so that connection between, what do you want to outline, what do you want to accomplish or communicate. And then how does that turn into practice? Right. Well, what are the things that you want to cover and how do you want to show that in the video is kind of that interesting connection, I think for a lot of the teachers.
How do they get it from an idea in their head to an actual video product?
Chunking ContentKelly Paredes: [00:24:52] Yeah. And I want to, I want to jump in because I want to take that even further back. I was thinking, cause I, The layout that's going on. And I think this is something that I just started really diving into. I, we were using real Python. We've been using it for about a year, a little bit, a little, a little bit more.
and I really, when I started being teaching online, I started looking at real Python articles and videos, and I just love how everything's really short segmented. I was having a conversation with Sean. I can't really follow with the tutorials that are written for me as a basic learner. The short little four minute, five minute tutorials, and you have, here's, here's a list and what lists are, and here's indexes and slices.
it's very nicely laid out in small segments. So if I do four little videos, I can watch your little outline. You tell me about the list. I go, Oh yeah, I forgot to teach that. And then, then I'm like, pause, go back and record. But it's these, this little thing that the outline and taking something, explaining it, chunking it,
Christopher Bailey: [00:26:01] yeah. Chunking. Yeah.
Kelly Paredes: [00:26:02] have this nice little video, closing it out, re rephrasing it and then going into a new concept.
It's not, some people like to have a tutorial that's two hours long on list this comprehension, and it's like, Whoa. I don't even know how to make a list yet, ? And so I wanted to back that up about that. That's feature. If you've never seen real Python and seen some of the tutorials you can visit, and usually you see about two or three of the videos for free.
If you're not a paid membership like we are. so just have people to go check that out if you haven't seen it. It's a really great layout. So go ahead. Sorry.
Christopher Bailey: [00:26:36] That was, that
Kelly Paredes: [00:26:36] a plug for you.
Christopher Bailey: [00:26:37] no, no, I appreciate it. I, that was something really crucial that Dan wanted to include. I agree that I have attempted to watch a full length, whatever you want to call them, tutorials on say something like, YouTube. And I have a real hard time with it. partly because I'm an editor and it drives me crazy.
I know that's not, there's like a whole monetization thing in YouTube that involves basically having this long drawn out conversation. And, I have one video that actually made it by viral many, many years ago. It's a video of my hamster, which your kids might love actually, and  it's like stuffing carrots in its cheeks.
My wife. As a whole story. I started making films at home and anyway, we needed a prop. I was going to buy this little stuffed hamster and she said, no, let's get a real hamster. And I'm like, okay. And then you end up spending all the accoutrements to have a hamster in a cage and all that stuff. So he just gave it baby carrots one day and she thought she had killed the hamster because it stuffed it in its cheeks, , she thought it was like going to die anyway, it's so sorry.
She does this whole video about it. It's pretty funny, but it has like 4 million views and I used to actually make. Yeah, no income on it. Not much, but a little bit. And they changed the entire thing. Now it all is about length of time, , how long is somebody there? And so the whole, Hey guys, like that whole long part of it is like such a thing that is needed, to basically keep people engaged.
And that's what I like about real Python and some of these other tools that we have out there is like. Let's just get to these points. Let's make it, indexable in the sense that you can go back and, , okay, that topic didn't make sense. I want to go back and learn more about that. Or I want to jump ahead.
And, even in my podcasts, like I put in time codes and I put in chapters because I want to jump around to those things. I want to go back and try to find things. And so I think that part is, as far as learning as a concern. , how often as a teacher do you reference the index and the glossary and all these kinds of tools that are there for learners?
And. So, yeah, definitely chunking things, making a smaller, getting a, , a single point across and being successful with that, I think is really important. So that is a big part of it. and sometimes you take an article and you need to change the order because how am I gonna flow through this thing?
It may not make sense. Like they may have started off with like a really advanced area to kind of get people hooked into the article, but there's so many steps that you needed to get to, to get there. And that's a actually a really big thing that I really want to make sure. And as a reviewer now I have to. I code through the thing. I like watch and I actually try as a student there stuff out. ? Dan loves it that I do that. cause I don't think he had the time before to do it. And now I'm like. Super detailed and being this perfectionist of like, well, actually, this didn't work and this didn't work in that and so forth.
And so it's weird. It's a role I've never thought it would have of like having to sort of, sort of like code review of, of people's work, as far as creating these courses. And so I, I hope it's helping, , and kind of to see it from somebody else's eyes, but I really wanna make sure that don't skip steps.
Make sure that, , like don't, if he can, , depending on if it's an intermediate or an advanced video, you may not have a chance to be able to say, , sometimes you could reference other, , articles and things that people could go back to if they need to learn more about virtual environments or some of the kinds of things that are going to take you on a tangent.
But as far as basic videos, yeah, man, every single step cover him.
Sean Tibor: [00:30:11] let's take a minute though. I want to make sure we're, we're keeping this in mind for someone who maybe hasn't done a lot of video content creation in the past. So maybe let's take a step back for a moment and just talk about what do you need to get started.
So you need an outline, right? Like, you need to know what you're going to record. what would you recommend for teachers maybe that, , have access to Amazon. And maybe a little bit of their own money. They don't have a huge budget. How could someone get started with video content creation, creating something for their students that, , could be inexpensive to start or a way to, to get going that is maybe good enough.
, it's, it doesn't have to be amazing, but good enough.
The Importance of AudioChristopher Bailey: [00:30:50] I. Don't have a list of the hardware in front of me, but I can try to share some of that. But I think, , the audio is going to be really important. I can't stress out enough. I'm an audio engineer, but I, I will turn off videos instantly if the audio is bad. And so you got to get that at least to a level that's just listened to bubble.
I mean, think about it yourself. Like how many times do people forgive. Mediocre or poor video, , and I go, I can zoom in or I can do this other sort of stuff. I mean, you pay for the headphones on an airplane. they give the video away for free. So it's one of these things where you really have to think about, so getting a nice microphone, getting close and up on it, paying attention to the sound is really, really crucial.
along with that, as far as capture goes, Start out using just quick time, which has a way to capture your screen or a portion of your screen. It comes with a Mac, which is nice. It's sort of built in. And, that's been the tool I've used for quite a while. And only recently did I switch. the main reason I switched was, I was doing so much editing of my own videos.
I wanted a tool that helped a little bit more with consistency of the window size and placement and stuff like that. So I've got a tool called, I show you, it's a really dumb name, a letter I show, and the letterU  and then instant. And what I like about it, unlike tools like Camtasia, which is another great tool that's out there, it. It doesn't have to recompile the video. It's basically when you hit done, that's the instant part of it, is it? It's a done video. And so if you're not going to edit it, you're just going to go ahead and share it. You're not having to go through all these steps of like, now it's asking me about what Kodak I want.
I don't even know what that is, , and all those kinds of steps. And so I like that about it. It's a, , something that you could then instantly, , post it on YouTube or wherever you are going to share your video at. am I hitting the kinds of things that
Sean Tibor: [00:32:52] Yeah, and I think w w Kelly, do you want to unplug a couple of the tools that you found.
Recording Tools like ScreencastifyKelly Paredes: [00:32:55] Yeah. So, I'm just thinking about some of our teachers out there who are working in low income schools, or, , we're working at home. A lot of us, all the teachers are  , footing this bill of production and everything. So I'm using Screencastify myself, which I have no editing.
And I've made 20 different cuts of the same video because my kids walk in and I have to start over. I've said, the great thing about podcasts, Sean gets rid of all our OMS. So, but in my screencast,
Sean Tibor: [00:33:24] to like edit that one. Where's the, Sean gets rid of all of
Christopher Bailey: [00:33:26] Wait, I need that
Kelly Paredes: [00:33:27] yeah, so Screencastify I like, that's the one I've been hitting a lot with. Is that what you're using Sean?
Screencastify.
Sean Tibor: [00:33:33] I've been using Screencastify and I've been using the builtin quick time recorder. I think one, , one tip that I have that, , if you don't have access to a lot, just plugging in a pair of headphones with a inline microphone will give you a pretty good boost in quality for the audio.
it helps with echo. And , you have the microphone that much closer to your mouth to be able to pick up what you're, what you're talking about. Like we've recorded several of our podcast episodes when Kelly's been on a field trip or remote, just using an inline microphone and it's a pretty big upgrade from trying to record on the microphone that's built into your computer.
Kelly Paredes: [00:34:07] definitely, and I don't even use my, our podcast microphone to do my screencast. I use the little headsets that I got the kids to practice at school with their, with their speaking. So those, that's pretty interesting. The one thing that I, I really wish I knew how to do in a cheap, easy, quick cause teachers don't really have that much time, is to do that slide capture into my video.
Cause I really liked that feature of everything. So I've been typing it up into the code with a multi-line comments or hashtag no, I just hashtag all my notes on the top like so that was something that I've been doing as a makeshift because I've been making like chugging out a lot of screencast and one, two minute chunks of basics.
And then the other thing that I've been doing, I mean, I guess I, I'm kind of making my own little real Python site is making this Google site to organize all of these. So it was just a little things for the people that don't have the money. I'm
Christopher Bailey: [00:35:07] I think
Kelly Paredes: [00:35:07] thing that you're doing
Christopher Bailey: [00:35:09] well, I think that you could, you could potentially have your slides be independent. and, and then, , okay, now we're gonna dive into the code and that'll be the next video, or something like that. So that's one way you could approach it. one of the course creators uses a Mac feature.
Again, if you're on a Mac, it's, it's nice, but it's called spaces where you literally have multiple desktops. And so he'll have his Google slides or what have you ready to go there, and then he'll use whatever the. Two, three, three finger slide back and forth and you'll see it happen as like an animation.
And I thought that was kind of slick as one way to do it. I record slide separate and then video and then I edit them together cause I'm that level, , of doing things. I know there's a handful of fairly inexpensive tools to do assembly and maybe there's a really, really powerful tool.
And it's free if you're only doing 10 ADP, it's called DaVinci resolve, but it's a full on editor. It's like,  for K eight K movies and color colorizing and all those kinds of things that you do for actually releasing professional movies. Now you might say, well, gosh, it would've, , person who's not really into this, want to get into, well, my.
F creates content for, the mortgage company she works for. She works from home also, which is great. And she got a job recently Eve doing training for them. And I said, she's asking me what are the tools that we could do? And we looked at premiere, which is, , this whole massive subscription and all these kinds of things.
And she was using a PC. I said, well, maybe this DaVinci resolve thing might work for you. Now my videos I've been doing in four K so I couldn't do that. I'd have to pay. But. For a free tool where they're really just trying to get more people using this. It's super powerful. What's nice is that that would then give you the ability to say.
All right, that past didn't work and I just want to overdub this line or I want to, I want to redo my voice cause maybe the coding was fine. or maybe, , you have your slides and you just want to, , re do that. So those are some potential ways off to think of, maybe I can find some other tools.
I know Camtasia, Ed's a popular one, but, Orrin, even snag it on the PC, I think is another one that you can do basic capture with. but having a way to overdub. Gosh. It'll save you so much time trying to fix things.
Magically Fast TypingKelly Paredes: [00:37:25] So here's another question. How do you type so fast? My kids always want to know when they watch videos cause I tried to type and I feel like I make more errors. Ty fade.
Christopher Bailey: [00:37:34] there's a little magic there. I
Kelly Paredes: [00:37:36] I need to know the magic
Christopher Bailey: [00:37:37] I'm actually using a speed up tool, so I'm, I actually, I, yeah, I'm totally cheating. I separate the audio and then I highlight the area of video, and then I'm like double time because I'm, I'm a terrible typist. and so I, that's the trick I've seen other people do.
and maybe this would work for you. one of the new authors there, Christopher Trudeau, he. He really wants it to be like a presentation, and he will practice it in that way. So he will take his rebel sessions, if you will, and take the code that he created in there and make it be almost like bullets that appear in there.
So it looks like he's typing it. And it kind of like, , prints across the screen using a, a technique. And so, and then he can discuss it as it's going. It's not quite the same live environment thing that I like about some of the other tools. But depending on what you're trying to show, it may be that nice in between of kind of like letting you, have the code appear, line by line.
Presentation Skills Matter
Cause that's one thing I don't like about. slides is if you're not going to do bullets or, , if it's just so many words and you make them all up here and it's just super distracting. And so you really need to be, , there's so many great present, you can think of it as, , creating a presentation and, and hosting it.
it just need to think about, okay, , minimal amount of words. You're adding the spoken word, so you don't need to say every word that's on there. You should be adding something to it. So,
Sean Tibor: [00:39:04] Yeah. one of the things that, that we've, talked about a little bit is finding the right balance of production versus speed versus skill, right? So it's again, almost like a triangle that you're trying to figure out how to, what the shape of that looks like. And I think it's easy for. A lot of,  new content creators.
So if you're, , teacher getting started to look at what's being created on a site like real Python or on YouTube or something like that, someone who's had years of experience creating content and say, well, whatever I create isn't going to be good. Right? Like, it's not going to be good because I can't, I don't know how to do that.
And. One of the things that we've talked about with our students especially is you, the only way you're going to get better is by doing something, right. Like, you have to start somewhere. do you have any advice for, for teachers in terms of, , how to think about their first steps, creating content and how to, , that kind of mental game of how do I create content and feel comfortable publishing it.
Practicing HelpsChristopher Bailey: [00:40:06] I don't know if this is a great analogy, but, when I tried to get into, video in general, I was, I was working at the school for recording engineers and I had worked with somebody who made a bunch of music for a, For this video for hotel. It was for the Fairmont Scottsdale princess. And I made custom music that went into this video.
And I was so proud of the video that I went and shared it with everybody. And so everybody assumed that I made the whole thing and I had just done the music. And so they're like, Oh, well you should make commercials for us and you should do this. And so I am like, okay. And so I took this crazy task on like you guys are having to take on of like, Oh my God, now I'm doing video and now I'm going to have to edit video.
And now I'm going to, and I'm like. I really was, , nervous and excited at the same time to try it out. So as I got into that world video, I decided to challenge myself, and maybe you can think of this as a challenge yourself in the sense of. There were these simple 24 hour or 48 hour movie challenges, and you would have to basically each show up at a destination on a Friday night, and they'd be like, okay, you got to use this prop.
You have to use this line of dialogue. You have to use, , so forth and so on. And so we'd go back, write an entire story of script short, obviously three, five minutes of like that. shoot it. Edit it, , output it to a DVD that was what you did at the time, and then deliver it. And then what was really awesome or again, could be really nervous, nerve wracking, is they would actually then have a showing at a movie theater and they would show these movies that you created.
And so that deadline, if you will, of like. Having to create something and, and, having it to have to be, , good enough that I can share. It was like such a motivator for me to learn the software, to learn how to do it and so forth. I don't know what that can be for a teacher as much. just having the deadline, and maybe having somebody to share it with, to, to show it, to like that kind of community thing.
and having that, that's kind of the thing I've been learning in Python in general is just like. How important the community is as far as learning and finding that community around, okay, we now have this team of people are having to make videos. How, , I want to show you techniques that I've tried here and so forth, and maybe having this deadline to say, this has to happen here.
I mean, you've already probably have lots of deadlines for
Kelly Paredes: [00:42:32] Every day.
Christopher Bailey: [00:42:33] things. Yeah. As a teacher. But I don't know. That's one way I thought of it. I don't know if that helps.
Kelly Paredes: [00:42:38] Yeah, I was, actually thinks a lot of teachers, I see it happening. We default, and I could easily put up some of your stuff and have, have your list videos be out for the kids. And that's, that's helpful. But I think the teachers need to understand, the kids want to hear their teacher's voices. At least 50% of the time, I would say, I don't know.
Let me give a number to that. so you just kinda have to do it. I, I never want to listen to my screen cast ever. and I try not to, but I force myself to listen to them and review them at least to know if it's garbage or not. But yeah, I think deadlines are definitely, a very important thing. If you set up your goals, I'm going to do.
List this weekend, finish that up. because you're, you're real Python article. Enlist. I'll cover about three of your videos in about 10 videos for my, for my littles, because I have to break it up for him. So I think deadlines is definitely a good thing for teachers to be reminded of. And not, not ones that are going to stress you, but, but your own goals.
Recreating Content To Develop SkillsChristopher Bailey: [00:43:46] Yeah. I don't think I'm recreating something is a bad thing at all either. I think that's can be really, really powerful. I mean, how many people learn music, by doing cover songs and, and those kinds of things. , the entire, there's so much basis around that till you can become comfortable with it.
So recreating something that you like, I think would be. At least good practice. I haven't thought about it that way, but I think that would be kind of a, one way that you could say, , even if you're just saying, okay, I'm going to try to follow the same steps in that way until you become more comfortable.
Kelly Paredes: [00:44:19] and I think it's also just a good learning thing. I would, I would, Challenge any teacher out there who is like me trying to learn how to code. I have to do the basics every nine weeks and every time I do the basics, I learn a little bit more. Like the whole, just watching the other day watching, I guess it was your video about identifying two lists with the same content, but they're not equal because they're not in the right order.
You did. List a is Liz B, and that's a false statement I learned that I didn't know that you could do is I knew you could do equal equal. And so I think so. I think that the whole having to recreate, watch other people's videos, recreate your own screencast or whatever for your students has been a huge learning opportunity for me.
Sean Tibor: [00:45:11] Well, it also kind of removes one of the variables, right? Like you don't have, if you're basing it off of good content that  is. , accurate and complete and reasonable, then you're removing that variable of, am I saying the right thing or am I, do I have this right? So you can always focus on, on the other parts, the, , the other idea that I had is we were talking, and this could be a lot of fun.
No, your students are at home with the same basic setup that you have. Also, they've got a computer with a webcam and probably some headphones that they could plug in. You could do like a flip grid where everyone has to come up with the best screencast for an idea or something like that. So, , push it out to the students or flip things around.
Flip the Creator Roles with StudentsIf I as the teacher, I'm the beginner. I'm a beginner at creating content. , our, our students are probably better than we are. They're, they're doing tick talks. They're
Christopher Bailey: [00:45:57] with the technology. Yeah.
Kelly Paredes: [00:45:59] I wonder if we can do a chick talk cast of, of Python code rebel.
Sean Tibor: [00:46:03] Right. But, but like flip it around,
Christopher Bailey: [00:46:05] more stuff like that. Like they have like a share, , like crafting and all these kinds of things as , beyond just the typical social stuff. So that would be interesting.
Sean Tibor: [00:46:14] So maybe that could be kinda fun. so I, , in terms of, the other question that we have, is around how much of yourself, like, so, , like when you're doing a screencast, right? It's usually a voiceover and we're overdubbing and things like that. But, , for a lot of teachers, like the
Students crave that connection. They want to see that you're there. So I've been doing a lot of like picture and picture, so it does a little pop up of my webcam in the corner so that my students can see me as I'm talking. any hence or guidance for people who want to include live video or video recording in their, in their screencast, in terms of lighting and set up and things like that.
Technical Advice for Good Quality VideoChristopher Bailey: [00:46:49] Yeah. I, I don't do that. I don't, I'm, I'm so, I don't, I'm not averse to it. I know Dan was doing a lot of that on his, his early video pieces. I know that's a huge thing on YouTube and obviously Twitch streams. And so I've thought about doing it, but I haven't yet, partly because I edit my stuff so much, so it would be kind of weird, but I, I think if I practiced it, I, as far as lighting goes, you really got to focus on. I mean, look at it, number one. and I, I, this is like just a video thing. Backlighting , if there's a window behind you or there's like all this bright stuff behind you, it just, these cameras are not really fantastic that are built into the computers. I mean, if you buy an additional camera, which.
Are hard to find now because of everything that's going on, like a Logitech or some of the kinds of things to put on there. It would give you a little better quality and maybe more what's called, , dynamic range from black to white. but I would just, , make sure there's some lighting in front of you.
so that it's, , coming from the screen towards you. Some, I, I used to do more of that and I, I was thinking about, as you were talking about practicing, I. When I taught at the school for recording engineers near my end of my tenure there, I, and I was getting ready to leave. I recorded my classes so that basically I could, not in person, but basically train my replacement and a person who's going to come in after me.
So I just set up a camera and a couple different angles and tried to record, this is like 10 years ago and. Just being able to look at that stuff again and see how you're doing is really great. Again, you're not in the classroom situation now, but , as far as practice in the future, just, , record yourself and, , figure out your rhythms and stuff and maybe you can reuse some of that too.
I, as far as tools, I haven't used it, but I think I show you that thing I was talking about before can do the dual capture. I think maybe we even briefly talked about OBS, the open broadcasting. what are the OBS stands for anyway? It as a tool that is designed for streamers and it definitely has layouts for, , it's going to capture both the video and, and your screen at the same time.
I wish I could speak to more of it, but definitely, , it's like my video right now is terribly distracting cause I have all these guitars and, and drum kits and all this kind of weird stuff behind me. And so I would try to eliminate some of those distractions. Like yours is pretty good, Sean, with like, you just have like a, something hanging on the wall behind you.
But yeah. cause I can imagine that. , being a a student, I would definitely be like staring over at all these other kinds of things and paying attention to them.
Sean Tibor: [00:49:25] Well, I also have my, I also have my back against the wall, so as I'm recording, it's less likely that like my kids are going to walk behind behind me and things like that. Right. 
Kelly Paredes: [00:49:33] that's mine too. I had, I was noticing the other day when I was on a zoom meeting and I had some papers hanging up from my kids, get in trouble list. yeah, so definitely the background. I don't use my picture in picture on sh on Screencastify. You can use that. It's bad enough. I look at my hair, my voice.
On the radio. So like as a teacher, you just, I don't want to hear my voice, but then I make my funny expressions and I was looking at myself, so I don't know if you're not a person that likes to look at yourself, especially when we're in coronavirus and we haven't had her hair done in a couple of weeks.
So
Christopher Bailey: [00:50:09] I'm almost to the point of shaving my
Kelly Paredes: [00:50:10] yeah,
Christopher Bailey: [00:50:11] I used to do that for the band.
10 Tips for Better VideosKelly Paredes: [00:50:13] I want to, I want to go over, I think I started trying to make 10 tips and I don't know if I'm missing some, but like I want to go back through it. We had make an outline. Use a table of contents. use slides. I like to use my code editor for my slides, but I like that idea of the spaces kind of flipping and through with the three finger swipe.
I'm going to try that because I really like the, the slide aspect and typing out an outline cause I think that helps for me. Short video lengths. I don't what is your longest in real Python
Christopher Bailey: [00:50:46] So,
Kelly Paredes: [00:50:48] Real quick.
Christopher Bailey: [00:50:50] well, so I had to do one for, Not. I had to, I was excited to do one for the release of Python three, eight, and Garr Arne, who was my first guest on, on my podcast. he's a great author, but he's super detailed and he will go that extra length that I kind of do. We actually have kind of good relationship we'd done on handful back and forth as the decorators one with him, and.
So I got to this video where the topic is about this new feature of Python three eight about, , these things added to type checking and. I didn't really want to break it up into other things because it didn't make sense to me. I felt like all this content needed to stay the same and I didn't want, , like if you're interested type checking, which there are a lot of people are not.
It's a fairly advanced thing, but if you're gonna, , be an open source, you're going to contribute, , or even just want to know what all this funky additional stuff that doesn't seem very functional inside of your Python code. What is that stuff. And so I ended up being, I don't know, 17 minutes, which is long for me.
That's probably the longest video I've added in a series. but generally I try to stay under 10 minutes. I will approach it occasionally, but
Kelly Paredes: [00:51:55] And most of them are. There are a lot of short ones. I like the short introduction. Is it as usually around a minute long,
Christopher Bailey: [00:52:00] yeah. Minute, minute and a half. Yeah. Depending how long the course is.
Kelly Paredes: [00:52:04] those are the free videos.
Christopher Bailey: [00:52:06] Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's always the ones.
Kelly Paredes: [00:52:08] Okay.
Christopher Bailey: [00:52:09] Dan surprises people to put some other free ones up in the real Python, YouTube channel.
Kelly Paredes: [00:52:13] Yeah. I saw that.
Christopher Bailey: [00:52:14] yeah.
Kelly Paredes: [00:52:14] Your third one on list is up by the way, on Indesit indices.
Christopher Bailey: [00:52:18] We get an idea how to slice and
Kelly Paredes: [00:52:20] Okay. So short video lengths I like, that you have in the articles and in the videos are as intro, teach and repeat. And don't be afraid to recreate, patron pitchers up to you and then maybe have some students make some screencasts to themselves.
Do you have anything else to add on that, Sean, that I missed for our.
Sean Tibor: [00:52:40] I think, well, I think the other thing we talked about a little bit was how to, how to display the code that you're writing. So you don't have to have, if you feel comfortable, you can speed it up a little bit so that, , people aren't waiting for you to fumble through the, the code that you're doing.
Christopher Bailey: [00:52:54] I mostly do it on comments. I really don't like if, if it's a comment and I'm going to speak this line, I usually will speed up the typing of me typing a comment. So maybe you could paste that in or, or again, other techniques because again, that's just for their, it's not the functional code part of it.
Kelly Paredes: [00:53:09] Oh, I actually put the comments already in.
Christopher Bailey: [00:53:12] there you go.
Kelly Paredes: [00:53:13] my
Christopher Bailey: [00:53:13] in the blanks around it.
Kelly Paredes: [00:53:14] so I can, because when I start to speak and type up my code, I'd slow down and say, I'm a lot, so I'll
Sean Tibor: [00:53:22] I think the other, the other one we mentioned was using be Python and term instead of IPython because it lets you see that code completion. so you
Christopher Bailey: [00:53:31] Yeah. There's a handful of other tools that are like that, that are great, and they just, that idea of code completion or giving the definitions of of functions and all these kinds of things where it's really. Explaining that code visually for you. And very often you might have the tendency to just skip past it.
but it's nice to sort of pause and, and, and also, like, that's probably the most common thing I've ever gotten comments on is like, what is that? I want that. Cause they want to experiment with it. the, the students who were watching my other stuff because they. , that's what the rebels for, right, is to play a little bit.
And so having a tool that can kind of be your friend and show you, Oh, these are all the possibilities and , these are all the types of things that are in it. And so, that, that kind of code completion and displaying that additional information, it's such a tool to help them teach themselves.
Minimize Jargon & Foo BarKelly Paredes: [00:54:24] Oh, I wanted to, sorry, I just remembered one thing, and I liked this, you said this is removing the jargon and you're going to have to do this for your, for, for your students. So I use jargon for them, like we talk about ice cream socials and tick-tock videos when I code and, and things. So I think making your, your.
Jargon, your variable choices or however you're going to code, make it applicable for your audience. I think that's a, that was a huge kind of thing that FUBAR does. I never knew what that was all about either, and Sean had to tell me,
Christopher Bailey: [00:54:58] yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a computer science kind of thing and it's been around forever. And, there's so many people that are coming into Python from all these different backgrounds and they don't necessarily have a CS kind of background. And if I'm like, I did a whole video course on packaging and what you were importing was like, okay, go ahead and import food and a reason to be like, to me, like.
Why? What does it doing? Oh, it doesn't do anything. Okay. Well, I'd like it to do something. I'd like it to, , have a name that makes sense, like something I'm going to use. So I created this whole fictitious example of like,  this is a module that, and this part of the code is all about emailing.
So you're importing this function that's really important cause it's gonna send the email. And this thing is the class about customer as opposed to it being,  import Fu. What is that? , what is bar? And then what's worse is when I was doing the list one, this is when I really went to town on that.
It hit the list example in the article. It goes into this thing of. Kooks or clocks or I don't even know how to pronounce it. And I was like, I got so frustrated cause it was like Q U X Q U U, U acts. And so I said, , Python is really based around a Monte Python. That's really where the name comes from.
And so I've have seen lots of other examples where they're using the spam thing. And so I went. Way deep into that whole spam skit. And it's like, , spam eggs, spam, bacon, lobster, , and for me, that's fun. And, , of course I get the occasional, , mm bacon, kind of comment. But yeah, to me that, that makes more sense and it's a little more, it's a little more fun.
And again, make it your own and personalize it. And the same thing with definitely for function names and. Having actual things that you're, you're working with and touching it, it makes it, I dunno, it just makes it more readable. Like having a real, like set, like when I was learning the, this program language are, they would just go to like this whole dataset on like flowers. It's the IRS database and or, or cars or something like that. And it just makes it way more approachable. And, I dunno, it switches the switch in my head.
Pacing and TimingSean Tibor: [00:57:02] Yeah. I mean, I think it kind of gets into a little bit broader topic too, around pacing, right? and, and finding the pacing of your videos in your own natural cadence for how you record and how you share things. And. , if you go too slow, people get bored and they abandon you. If you are going too fast, they can't keep up.
So finding that pacing is, is really important, and the content that you're using is a key component of that interest level and engagement as well. So I think that that was the only other thing I was gonna add to our list, is really around finding a good pacing. And don't be afraid to feel like you're going slow.
Because people are going to run it at one and a half speed if they really want to, or they'll, they'll take some time to, to think it through. It takes practice to find that key, that pacing, that works well for you.  we've gone through quite a bit here actually, and, and Chris very, it's a lot to think about and I know that a lot of, a lot of people are trying to juggle all these different things,  to, to kind of sum it all up,  , just get started somewhere, find something that you can record created.
It's okay if it's terrible. I mean, it's okay if you look at it and you said, this is a piece of garbage, go create the second one that's a little bit better and a little bit better. Just like anything else we do in coding and development and growth.
Christopher Bailey: [00:58:19] yeah. Your first, lesson you give is going to always be the roughest one and getting through it. , having taught in class and trying to get through that, it's, it's hard, , and students can make or break it. And I can imagine now it's. Even harder. Like if you don't have an excited bunch of faces watching you, trying to create your content now, it's probably even harder.
So
Kelly Paredes: [00:58:39] They're so happy right now. They're coding from their beds. It's, I mean, our, our classroom was probably one of the most Zen classrooms at school with our bean bags in our Apple bar and our lighting. But I've seen the kids laying in bed coding and what rest of the teachers don't like that, but I'm just like, go for it.
I'm outside if I can, and coding. So yeah, get, get on it and record people. It's kind of fun.
Wrapping UpSean Tibor: [00:59:05] So, so Christopher, we're gonna we'll wrap up here. but first, thank you so much for joining us. It was girly, great to talk with you and learn a little bit about your process for how you do, all the work you're doing with real Python for video content. The, the podcast is such a great addition to the, the Python sphere.
I think it's, not just being on a podcast, but listening to a lot of Python podcasts. You really feel connected. To people in the community. When you hear them on a podcast, you can hear their actual voice talking about the, the things that they're excited about. So thank you for, for all the work that you're putting into that and bringing more voices to our community.
Christopher Bailey: [00:59:40] Oh, thanks so much.
Sean Tibor: [00:59:42] So, I guess that's it, Kelly, unless you have anything else to wrap up with.
Kelly Paredes: [00:59:46] No, my son sitting there going, just telling me he has a zoom in like two minutes and two minutes, mommy, two minutes. I knew my computer back then
Sean Tibor: [00:59:53] Exactly. So then for him, for teaching Python, this is Sean.
Kelly Paredes: [00:59:57] and this is Kelly.