Sean Tibor: Hello, and welcome to teaching Python. This is episode 108, Hardware for Learning, and we're here with the founder of Juice Mine, or one of the founders of Juice Mine, Ryan dehuma Bed. And we are so excited to have you on the call. Ryan, my name is Sean Tyber, I'm a coder who teaches and my name. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Is Kelly Schuster Perez and I'm a teacher who codes. Sean Tibor: I like that you put that little Spanish on. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: I had to now because you said I'm Spanish. I usually say it in the English word because when I go to Peru, no one understands me saying it in a Spanish way. So we tried it. Sean Tibor: Nice. Well, Brian, welcome to the show. We're super excited to have you here this week. Ryan Dehmoubed: Yeah, I'm super excited to be here also. Thanks for having me. Sean Tibor: So can you give us the one or two sentences of who you are and the company that you founded? Ryan Dehmoubed: Yeah, definitely. So as you said, my first name and last name. My name is Ryan Demibed, I'm a co founder. I can't take full credit for starting Juicemind, but we're essentially a company that provides various curriculum enhancements in the coding space to a variety of classes within K through twelve. I previously worked as a software engineer at Amazon and graduated in Berkeley. And yeah, I'm super passionate about anything coding and engineering related. And yeah, I love what you guys are doing with the podcast. Also to make Python information more accessible to other people. So it's super exciting to be here. Sean Tibor: Like the woman said, we are super happy to have you. Before we get into the main topic and talking about all the cool stuff you're doing at Juicemind, we're going to start with the wins of the week and you get to go first because you're our guest this week. Ryan Dehmoubed: Definitely making me feel so important, right? Yeah. So the win for this week, we came out with a new product as part of our company, which is essentially you could think of it as a Cahoot for coding. So right now we offer a solution. So one of the limitations of cahoots is pretty much that everything is multiple choice based, but to have something engaging for your Computer Science class, I feel like students, such a big part of it is like writing code and debugging that I don't think multiple choice did justice. So we came out with a product for AP Computer Science, a that allows students to attempt questions in a collaborative way with their classmates where they can write code and find errors and do multiple choice. So that was a new product that we've come out with this week for AP Computer Science. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: That's going to be a lot of help from a lot of those compsia people. Very cool. Sean, do you want to go first or I go first? Sean Tibor: I don't know. This week's been all lambda functions, encoding, so I've been writing a ton of python, and it's been really fun to get back into it. And I was trying to solve a problem that I actually figured out how to use Ginger templates to do it so it would make it even simpler, like less code, more templates. And I'm pretty excited about how it's shaping up. And then my boss was like, this is really awesome, but I need you to focus over here instead, Sean. So that might have been my fail with making something really cool that we it's, like, priority too, so I have to get back on priority one. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: That is not like you at all. Sean Tibor: I know you're shocked that I would get distracted by the new shiny thing. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Like a barracuda. Oh, man. What was my one? I've had a couple of wins. I coded my first background. I did HTML way back when I used Dreamweaver, and my teacher laughed at me because he's like, oh, you are old. I'm like, thanks. But I did Bootstrap this week, and I learned how to cheat. Kind of like chat GPT for HTML, copy and paste, beautiful header done. I was like, wow, why didn't they do this? So I learned Bootstrap. I put a preliminary like, I'm not going to produce it, but just to practice getting stuff out there, more or less, to learn more about HTML and figure out how you can find things through this Bootstrap code and the CSS and understand. Like, when you're web scraping for the python. There's so much in a website now. It's kind of like a car back in the you could fix a car really easy because there's no computers. That's kind of how HTML was when I was coding back in the days. And now it's kind of like a Tesla HTML, so you don't really know where the page is going. There's so much stuff hidden into it. So I love that concept, and I was trying to think, how can I apply that kind of thought process in the classroom? But that whole idea of, here's something now that we're doing, you're going to make it, even though you're not going to be an HTML web designer, but here's what you need to know. And it was kind of cool. So I did that and score. I only took a week to do it. Sean Tibor: Well, that's that's pretty awesome. I mean, it it's amazing. Like, it you know, over the last ten or 15 years, things really have changed on the front end web development front. Like, there's so many great frameworks now and resources and tools and yes, you have to add a bunch of extra cognitive load to pick it all up and make sure it's working. But you can be very productive with beautiful web apps and websites in a very short amount of time, and it's kind of amazing to see it all come together. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Yeah, but it's like a rabbit hole, right? Because you go down it, and you're like, I don't really like that color. And that color scheme doesn't really work, and you waste all this time. I'll stick to coding with Python. Sean Tibor: It's not a waste of time. Colors matter. Styles matter. And this is why we have front end app developers. We have people who can do this really well so that I don't have to. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Exactly. That was my thought. So I submitted the assignments. Sean Tibor: Hope we get an A. I'm going to put a link to it in the show notes, but I do have a really great video of a back end developer doing CSS. It's basically he's trying to put, like, a tray of drinks into a fridge and ends up, like, smashing the shelves to make room for it and turning it in sideways and cutting a hole in the door to make room for it to fit in instead of just turning it where it's supposed to be. I feel personally attacked, but also amazing that they captured the feeling so well. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Yeah, I tried with lots of colors. Eventually went back to 254-25-4254. I had a background. Ryan Dehmoubed: What color does that represent? Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Fairly white. Sean Tibor: It's very light gray. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: It's like when Sean's wife will be like, do you like this white or you're like this white? This is creamy ivory and this is girls do that cement all the time. Sean Tibor: Yes, it's happened once or twice. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: All right, move on. Sean Tibor: All right, let's jump into the main topic. Ryan, let's talk a little bit about first about how you got started here, kind of what your journey has been like. It sounds like you've had the opportunity, the privilege, as it were, to go through a bunch of AP Computer Science programs in the past and talk to people who have and get a feeling for what really works and what doesn't. Can you start kind of like, in your journey of computer science and how that brought you to where you are today? Ryan Dehmoubed: Definitely. So my first experience or Introduction to Programming was 11th grade in high school. I wasn't a really good programmer back then just because I feel I don't know if you guys have taken that class, but. Sean Tibor: They just barely had it when I was in high school. And I think it was taught in, like, we didn't have computer or Java or something like that. Ryan Dehmoubed: Oh, really? Yeah, I was really I was really surprised. I'm not going to try to say you guys are really old, but I think I saw that it started in, like, 1980s teaching, like Java and AP Computer Science. I always ask the question. Sean Tibor: Well, the thing was, is even back in the 90s, there just weren't people who could teach it. So anybody I knew that was taking AP Computer Science was doing it as an independent study. And they'd be sponsored by, like, an English teacher or something that would just make sure that they actually did it. But no one who could actually teach them or instruct them. They had to do the whole thing themselves 100%. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: They didn't have the funds for that computers either. Ryan Dehmoubed: And I think that's one of the biggest problems even right now with computers, that problem still hasn't been solved. That the people who actually know how to code and teach how to know how to code, most of them go to industry. So there really is a shortage of really good teachers. So when I first started, I want to make my teacher seem bad if he's listening to this podcast, but he's a great guy, but he didn't know how to code. He was an econ teacher that was placed responsible for teaching computer science. So my first introduction was very tough to fully grasp coding because the class jumps straight into kind of like logic. And for new programmers, I mean, it's super exciting when you get something right and know how to do something and can solve the puzzle. But if you could imagine if you can't really solve the puzzle, things become really stressful. And I feel computer science in general, if you don't have a clear vision of how you're applying it, putting in the work and the grind in order to kind of solve those puzzles becomes very kind of like demoralizing at times. So that was kind of one of the problems that we're trying to solve with Juice mind. How can we make computer science more one, more engaging, and two, show the practical applications from it so students can first develop that sense of passion and in order to kind of justify putting in the work at a later time in order to develop the computational thinking tools so they can pretty much because the amounts of things that you could do with a computer science education is pretty much like unlimited. For example, you were building, like, a website today, and yeah, you were deploying. I still don't understand what you did today, Sean. Sean Tibor: But it's okay. It happens all the time. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: I don't understand half the time. Things you said, just smile and nod. Ryan Dehmoubed: Yeah, but it sounded really cool and applicable. All you need is generally that sound. I think first what you need is to develop that passion. See that you could build like, a wide array of different things, and it's a really powerful tool. And then you need to develop the foundation. And once you develop the foundation, once you have those two components, there's pretty much not a limit to where your creativity could take you when combined with the scope of computer science. So that's why we started Juicemind, to provide the practical application, show, solve the first part, which is to try getting students more passionate about computer science in general. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Yes, I tried your product, and we did this in the schools, in our exploratory, just kind of doing a fun thing. I have a lot of kids in my exploratory class that just consume new products. Literally, I have to buy in new stuff because they master a lot of things really quickly. So I gave it to a couple of my more advanced students and they were like, I know, so they skip through the basics, obviously, I was telling you for them. But it was great. It was great because as a kid that wouldn't know any Python. The platform is phenomenal for that and they got to do the building part. And I think that's really nice is the actual touching of components, but seeing it online first and having to go through what a component is because you don't get the opportunity much to do that in my curriculum of what components are resistors breadboards. We try to touch on it, but there's just so much to do, right? So many cool things you can do. Ryan Dehmoubed: Definitely. Yeah. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Sorry, I was going to say talk about more like are you on the engineering side? Are you more of an engineer or a computer science or a mix? Ryan Dehmoubed: So, for Juice, mine specifically, my co founder, has more ownership of the engineering side in terms of building out the website and building out the firmware to kind of support Python on the microcontroller such that they can build the doorbell and the ping pong launcher. However, my responsibility right now has been more on the product side in terms of talking to teachers, understanding what they really want, narrowing down product requirements and coming up with marketing and sales material. However, I did study computer science and I'm an engineer at heart. So it is kind of like painful to not be a hands on the product side. That's more of the fun part, honestly. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Excellent. Sean Tibor: Nice. Let's go through some of these products. So, Juicemind is a company that's really focused on computer science education and you've got products that can be used in a variety of different settings at different levels. Can you introduce us to the products that you offer? Like, what was the first thing that you came up with and launched and how does it work? Ryan Dehmoubed: Definitely. So the first product we came out with is a smart doorbell. I actually have the kit over here. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: It's a really cute kit. I'm going to interject real quick. So it's a really cute kit. So you have to kind of just explain the kit real quick outside of it. Just short couple of sentences of the kit outside the packaging. Ryan Dehmoubed: So at first our vision was to try making coating again as fun and engaging as possible. So we tried shaping it as a juice mind. That's why a juice box, that's why we called it the name Juice Mine. So I don't know if you guys could see, but we have ingredients that come with the kit. So software is thankfully software is thankfully most of the ingredients. However, there is a component of cloud which is 15 grams. Nice. By learning Python, I think hopefully it would give your students a lot of clouds, and brain power and satisfaction are also part of the daily servings. Thanks for bringing that up. This is one of the first products we came out with. Essentially, it allows these students to learn how to it pretty much serves as an introduction to Python and allows students to learn the fundamentals of iteration, conditionals data types, variables, booleans, while applying that knowledge towards building a smart doorbell that could send text messages and emails when somebody presses a button. So the goal was to take kind of a legal approach where students could be while they're learning the concepts, they could directly be applying the concept that they're learning towards building a real product that's applicable. So the goal with that is to show students that students starting off with Python, that the knowledge that they're learning can be applied to the real world and is super useful and valuable to kind of, like, get into coding. So that was the goal with the first product. Sean Tibor: So I want to talk through the hardware a little bit because there's some really cool things here going on that I wanted to highlight. So it's a smart doorbell, right? So it doesn't have a camera or anything in there. But what's really great about it is it has a breadboard as the heart of it. Like kind of the backing piece of it, which I think is brilliant because it's something that you would actually use for prototyping, and it's part of your project. So you get familiar with that. But it looks like it's an ESP 82 66 board in there, right? Or something similar to that. Ryan Dehmoubed: It actually is an ESP 86. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: He knows the boards. Ryan Dehmoubed: Very impressive. Sean Tibor: I recognize the antenna shape, but it's something you can run Python on. There's been some really great work on Micro, Python and other libraries that you can run Python on this board. But if you're concerned, like, oh, this is going to be like a ton of components that the kids need to learn or that I need to learn, it's really great. It's the board. It's a button, it's a light sensor, it's a couple of wires. And the battery pack is like, AAA. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Batteries and the jumper cables are already prevent. Sean Tibor: So nice. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: I was like, oh, I heart that on there. I was like, you don't even have to do anything, Kelly. Sean Tibor: And that's what I like about it. Sometimes you get kits that have, like, a lithium battery in it, and then you have to, like, be careful with the lithium battery. Don't cut it, don't puncture it. These are AAA batteries, right? Like, everybody's familiar with them. There's this high degree of comfort with all this, and it's got these really nice little cover that fits together and makes it look professional. So even if you're working with prototyping parts, the final product looks like a real product. So a kid can do that hey, mom, look at what I made sort of experience with something that looks pretty good. It's a finished product and they can say, I built it, I coded it. It does the things that I want it to do, which is pretty exciting to see. Ryan Dehmoubed: Definitely. Yeah. That's the go with our product. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: And then I'm going to elaborate just a little bit on the teacher side using the product. So as a teacher, especially for someone that may not know coding so well or needs to organize a lot of students, it has a platform similar to like, a gradebook. Right or wrong, it's like a gradebook. You can see all your students logged in. They have to log in under your class. You can see their progression throughout the platform, and you can launch quizzes. Right, I can't remember. Ryan Dehmoubed: Yes, that's accurate. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Yeah. And then what else am I missing? Ryan Dehmoubed: That pretty much covered all of it. So, yeah, we do have an LMS system that allows you to kind of like, as you said, track student progress. But our goal is to shift away from it more just because we want students to be kind of more self motivated. However, there always has to be kind of like that teacher student interaction. So the quizzes, obviously our goal with the quizzes or the Cahoot like, coding activities is to kind of foster more of that student teacher interaction. And our goal for the grading or assessment of how well you did would be completion of the project and coming up with something creative that you could add to it. For example, as you mentioned, Sean, adding a camera to it, which is something we are planning on supporting in the next couple of months for next semester. Sean Tibor: And that's one of the things I really like about hardware based projects, too, is that it's something that you can take it in a variety of directions when it comes to extending that learning. Right. So for some students, it might be, I'm going to add a camera to this. I'm going to add some other electronics hardware to it. But for other students, it might be, I want to paint this in such a way that it blends in better, or I want to use it in a different setting that maybe isn't a doorbell, but it's something else. Or I want to just hang it up in my room and then have something happen when people press the door to enter my room. That sort of thing is opening up the creative possibilities and also enhances the learning by giving students agency over where they take it next. Ryan Dehmoubed: Definitely. Yeah. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: And ping pong launcher or something. I think that's product number two. I haven't seen that. Ryan Dehmoubed: Yeah, that's our second project. I would love to watch your students. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: You have to send that one to me. You'll have to send that to us. Sean Tibor: If it were me, I would be pairing the two of these together. So you have someone entering the classroom, pressing the doorbell and getting a ping pong ball launched into it, or she would or a lot of ping pong ball. Ryan Dehmoubed: With IoT. That is possible. Different devices can communicate Sean's minds going, challenge accepted. Maybe you're dangerous with the things. I'm not sure. I might not send it to you. Sean Tibor: Have a sign, a disclaimer before you ship it. All right, so tell us about the ping pong launcher. So the second product launches ping pong balls. Can you give us a little bit more kind of flavor and color? And I didn't get to see it. I just see what's on the website. So I'm guessing a little bit here. How does it work? Ryan Dehmoubed: Definitely. So the ping pong launcher is catered towards students who have finished a smart doorbell and are interested in or and are interested in exploring more on the robotic side. So it walks students through more advanced Python concepts, such as they're going to be able to build their own function and more advanced computational logic. Computational logic skills development. And they would dip their toes into controlling Servo motors and DC motors. So the goal is that students again learn more advanced Python concepts and the basics of robotics by building a launcher that could fire a ping pong ball. The ping pong ball fires 20ft. That's like a fun fact. Yeah, that's it. So it can cause some damage. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: I'm ready. Ryan Dehmoubed: But yeah, it's pretty much the fun continuation from the smart doorbell that students can further develop their coding skills. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Very cool. Sean Tibor: Yeah, I love anything with movement and motion to it in coding. Because you see what you're coding, right? Like, you see that it launched a ball or you see that it moved somewhere. And that's I think the real power of these types of kits is having something that the student can see and be surprised by their own efforts. Ryan Dehmoubed: Definitely. Yeah. That's our goal with that. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Yeah. And you definitely hit on the fun. And I told Sean, I was like, we're not like, oh, we're going to go support whatever this person, that person. It's a philosophy that we believe in fun with code. And it's just fun to watch kids engage and to see them make something. And it's not like, here, just put this in and turn it on and copy my code in and make something. It's actually a thought out product which teaches why you're going. And you have to go through the steps. That's why I love it. You have to go through the steps to actually get to the build part. And the kids are like, I just want to put this together. I'm like, oh, it doesn't work that way. You got to maybe click, which is hard to do when you are in a classroom sometimes with students that may or may not really want to learn, but they want to build. So it's kind of like a forced learning while you're playing. And it was good. I really enjoyed watching kids put them together. Ryan Dehmoubed: Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, of course, to build off that. Yeah. I feel in middle school and even elementary school, there are more kids that lean towards it, but they just want to, again, as you said, build. I think they're so used to Lagos that I feel that teachers can make such a big impact in terms of showing how both learning and building can be kind of combined. And you obviously have to learn in order to build. In the real world, once you get a bit older that things are, it's always like, click based. I think the teachers have an opportunity to make a huge impact in that area 100%. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: And what I tell the kids all the time, your parents pay for you or have you guys go to school so you can learn to read, so let's practice. They always hate that saying. I say, they send you here to learn how to read, so let's start reading. And they're like, this is coding? I'm like, no, it's reading. Get going. So cool. Sean Tibor: Sean, I was going to ask about quizzes and kind of the gap that you see in computer science education that better quizzes and better engagement can fill. And I wanted to focus maybe more on the gaps that you see and less on the solution at this point because I know it's still new and you're kind of finding the product fit and everything in the market. Definitely. But what are the we talked a little bit about finding or assisting teachers in teaching this content, especially if they're not necessarily trained computer scientists. What are some of the struggles that students in computer science, especially in the AP level, are going through as they're trying to learn this? What are the things that are most challenging and what are some ways that we can help address that? Ryan Dehmoubed: I think right now, honestly, I think there are two big issues that, in my opinion, are kind of like the biggest one from allowing students to pursue more computer science classes at a college level and even professionally once they get into AP computer science. The first problem is that I don't a lot of the teaching isn't, how do you say? Like, so some students come into the class with a lot more knowledge than other students. So during kind of like the first weeks and even months, some students might go through and code everything in literally like 2 seconds. And it's like super intimidating being a student who's new into the class and not having an abundance of background knowledge. I felt that way when I was in my computer science classes in high school, and especially in college when you're classmates with people who have been learning how to code since they were like five or three. So sometimes it's very intimidating. And I feel it's very easy for students to say coding isn't right for me. Because, again, the first couple of weeks that you are going through the coding process, especially like if it's an intensive class or you don't have that previous background knowledge, it's going to be very challenging, and you have to put in a lot of work to kind of overcome that initial learning curve. Sean Tibor: I can definitely relate to that. I had my freshman year college roommate. There I am, I'm trying to learn how to code for the first time because there was no way for me to really do it in school where I came from. I get there and my college roommates like, hey, look, check out this game I made. And he made like a fellow in Linux. And I'm like, this is great. Where can I get it? And he's like, oh, it comes bundled with Gnome. It's part of the underlying operating system that distribution. I'm like, Seriously, here I am trying to figure out variables and you're like, yeah, mine comes standard with the nome desktop environment for Linux. Ryan Dehmoubed: It's insane, right? I mean, it's good that you had him as a friend, that he could teach you and help you. Sean Tibor: Oh, he was a terrible teacher because he knew how to do all of it. He couldn't explain it to you, he just did it. So he wasn't a great teacher, but it was like, you have that moment where you're like, I am totally an impostor here at the school. I have no idea what I'm doing. And there are people writing code and competing in code competitions. How am I going to keep up with that? And the answer is you find your own path, I guess. Ryan Dehmoubed: Definitely. Yeah. Another more realistic answer is to just work a lot harder at the beginning to kind of catch up. But a lot of times it's not realistic because you can't skip any steps during your learning journey. You just have to go through the different kind of milestones. So I think a lot of students kind of lose motivation. It's an early stage and think, Computer science isn't right for me. So I think that's one of the biggest problems. The second biggest problem, I think, is developing the kind of initial passion for coding. How can teachers best create kind of like that spark at an early age or when students learn it for the first time, such that, again, students can go through that grind of going through the different milestones and at some points, learning anything is going to be really hard. So how do they give them kind of like that? Where does the motivation come from for them to kind of persevere through those hard learning obstacles? So I think developing also a very strong passion by showing students the realworld applications of why coding is important when they first start their journey is also very critical. So I would say those are the two biggest problems that if. We can overcome would greatly increase the number of people interested in software engineer and future or the future generation of people pursuing computer science. Sean Tibor: I think you're on mute here. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Sorry. I am on mute. Sorry. Dogs barking. But that was a good thing. I was on mute so I didn't interrupt you. I love that and I want to summarize that because I think that's like three very cool objectives for a computer science program. Number one, introduce computer science to everyone to level the playing field 100%. Love that, love that, love that. Let's just say everyone gets at least a taster of it so they understand. Here's a basic if you like it in the future, at least you've been introduced to it early on. Number one, great, find that initial spark. Number two, objective in a computer science classroom, find something that's going to spark their learning. We do that a lot here's. This person likes this games. This person likes Matt plot. Lib. This person likes hardware. This person likes music. What do you like? We're going to make sure that coding hits that and we're going to get that spark going because once we get that spark going, opportunities are endless. And then the number three is find a passion to connect it to the real world. If every teacher in a computer and science can do those three things and you imagine what the possibilities could be in the future. So not saying everybody is a coder, but at least they've got a focus and an insight into what it means to be a future learner producer in the world. So I had to summarize that. So I'm glad I was on mute so I can write it down. Well said, Ryan. Sean Tibor: It's interesting, I was thinking about this also in a different form. This week I was reading a book about how to organize teams and how to structure them. And it's a very academic sort of lots of studies, lots of data, lots of references. But one of the concepts that they brought in there that I hadn't really thought of it in this way before, was this concept of cognitive load for teams. So thinking about how loaded a team is in terms of either the domain space that they have to cover, like they might have a really large complex system that they have to manage and maintain or something that's brand new and they're having to go through this learning curve with it. And I was thinking about cognitive load in a learning context and how students, if you hit that peak or that limit of what you're capable of handling at that moment in time, it can be very demotivating because you just feel like there's no spare cycles, no capacity to be able to learn anything more. It's the old Far Side comic. May I be excused? My brain is full. Right? And the learning process helps you both increase that capacity. But then as you are building the knowledge, building the context, getting that, taking that journey. You said there's no shortcuts on the journey. Part of that is like integrating all of that knowledge that you have and turning it from being something that's really heavy cognitive load to something that's not so demanding. And so I was thinking about that as you were talking about this. That whole idea of cognitive loading is something that is very real for both teachers and for students, right? That this whole idea of something that might be really hard for me to grasp and learn and acquire right now, making me hit my loading limit, is much easier later on. Right. The first time I learn about variables in Python might be a really tough, heavy load sort of thing, but then after a while it doesn't really do anything. I get it, it's fine. And so what I was thinking about with your products and the quizzes and everything is I think the gateway to reducing that cognitive load for something is really the practice of it, right? It's the ability to practice and apply what you're learning on a regular basis. And every time you get to do that, your cognitive load goes down, right? Like you've processed something, you figured it out. So when you researched this area and you looked at the quizzes, how did you think about the way that kids would be able or students would be able to practice this and apply their knowledge? And then why collaboratively? What's the secret of doing it collaboratively versus by yourself trying to figure it out? Ryan Dehmoubed: Definitely. I feel pretty much like with anything in life that I've attempted always. I feel like in business and coding, in engineering, in school, when you're on a problem set. I feel once you bounce ideas off with a person in general, you're going to be a lot more creative. And it's also a lot more comforting and contagious. When somebody else is working hard towards something, it's going to naturally be contagious towards kind of your own hard work. I think there are definitely things, especially in coding, where you have to kind of like it's a lot more beneficial to do a loan. But for example, if you are stuck there has been so many instances, I'm sure it's the same with you guys, but there's a small bug in your code and you've been looking at it for like hours, literally like 2 hours trying to scroll through and try finding a possible issue. But as soon as you share your computer and walk through it with either your teacher or a friend and you're trying to explain it, you're like, oh shoot, I know exactly where the issue is. Or sometimes even having that new perspective can allow you to solve it a lot easier. So I think to kind of like summarize, I think it's very important from a collaborative perspective to work with somebody else just for the energy connection and also the kind of ability to brainstorm with other people. They brainstorm and communicate with other people, which I think are critical skills needed as a developer. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: I've done that a lot to Sean. I'm like, don't talk, don't send me the answer, just listen. He knows that I need that, too. I get that a lot. Cool. Sean Tibor: So tell us a little bit about how people can get connected with juicemind. Where did they go? How do they find out? There's programs for requesting sample kits. How do people get started if they're curious about this, I want to try this out and see how it works. Ryan Dehmoubed: Definitely. So they could pretty much go to our website and check out if they're interested in the smart doorbell kit. They could pretty much request a free sample. They could apply for a free sample to try it out with a subset of students. We want to make sure that the students find it really valuable before they commit to purchasing the product or going through a pilot program. So they could apply for a free sample or if they're interested just off the bat, they could request a quote also. And for the quizzes, the new product that we came out with, right now it's exclusive to AP computer science A. But if it is successful and that 11th graders find value in it, we're planning on expanding it to middle school and elementary school. So hopefully by then we'll be able to reach out to you on that product. Sean Tibor: Nice. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: More shooting products, too, please. Launchers. Expo. Launchers. I don't know. Something launchers? Yeah, never mind. Sean Tibor: Could you, Matt? I think Kelly just had that moment. She pictured her mind that she's up at the whiteboard and her marker stops working. She holds out a hand and it launches a fresh marker into it. She just grabs it. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: I'm, like, really known for chucking the dryer race markers into the garbage as they dry up. And the kids are always like, she's going to miss it. Most of the time. I hit it. Ryan Dehmoubed: You got your three pointers down? Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Yeah, three pointers down on that for the whiteboard markers. Sean Tibor: I mean, people don't know this, but Kelly did play volleyball for a long time, so she's got phenomenal handeye coordination and she's very competitive. So as soon as they challenge her to get it in there, she's going to make it. Ryan Dehmoubed: Has any student beaten you or they no. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: You're not allowed to throw anything in the computer science room. Sean Tibor: That's the first only we can throw things. If you want to launch something, you have to build it. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Exactly. Challenge accepted, right? Sean Tibor: Yeah. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Very cool. Well, it's been such a pleasure talking with you and finally putting a face to a name, and we've been communicating back and forth, like pretty much this whole year, and I appreciate for you to reach out with that and letting the students try out. Juice mine the doorbell was great, so it took up some time for me, so it was good. Sean Tibor: I think that was one of the things I really liked about the website, is it definitely appeals to the teachers. Look, it has 15 hours of curriculum for you. Here you go. Right. It's thinking about what teachers are trying to do is like, how do I cover the things that I need to cover? It's not just like a time filler. It's also it covers these topics or it matches these Csta standards. So as you're working through it as a teacher, I think one of the things that's really helpful is being able to see how this fits with the standards that you may be teaching to. Ryan Dehmoubed: Yeah, definitely. Sean Tibor: Nice. Well, I don't think we have too many announcements this week. Pycon is coming up. We have a few submissions that we're working through for speaking proposals at Pycon at the Education Summit, so more to come there. Hopefully to have a schedule ready to go in the next week or two. We are also working on ways that we can engage the broader community that may not be able to attend physically in Salt Lake City, but we're working on some virtual attendance options for that. Kelly, I don't think we have anything else going. We have some upcoming guests that you're working on and some more live streams over the next few weeks. Trying to get in as much as we can before the Education Summit 100%. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: And I'm going to plug again the Innovation Institute Pine Crest, if you're still interested. It's April 17 and 18th. I pulled it up this time so I don't blunder make a mess of that. It's a great institute. I am going to be playing to learn a workshop, so I'm going to bring out all the toys, all the robots. Maybe we'll throw in a Juice Mind product or something in there to play with too. I don't know. We'll see. But it's a fun little institute that we offer every year. I think it's like our 7th or 8th or 9th. She's going to kill me because I don't know. But yeah, Innovation Institute, if you're interested. Sean Tibor: So next week we'll have that in front of you in your notes. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: I'll work on it. Sean Tibor: Nice. Well, if you want to reach out to us about anything that's upcoming, if you have questions for Ryan and his partner at Juicemind, send them our way or send it directly to Ryan. I'll post links to his Twitter account so you can follow him there, as well as to the Juicemind website so you can check it out for yourselves. If you have questions for Kelly and I, keep them coming. We're catching up on the backlog of emails in our inbox and getting back to everyone, so you can find us at Teaching Python FM on the web. Our Twitter account is at Teaching Python and I think that just about wraps it up for this week. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: And our LinkedIn. Sean Tibor: Oh, yes, we've been growing our LinkedIn presence as well, so you can catch the live streams there on LinkedIn, as well as articles that Kelly has been writing. So a good plug for that. Thanks for reminding me, Kelly. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: No worries. Sean Tibor: All right, Kelly, for a teacher. One last thing. Thank you, Ryan. It's been great having you on the show. I wanted to say that before we exited. Thank you for joining us. It's been a real pleasure to chat with you and get to know you and the work that you're doing at Juicemind. Ryan Dehmoubed: Yeah, thank you so much. This was a ton of fun. Yeah. Thank you for having me on the show. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Excellent. Sean Tibor: All right, so for teaching Python. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: This is Sean and this is Kelly signing off.