Sean Tibor: Hello, and welcome to teaching Python. This is episode 114, and today we're going to be talking about EduBlocks again with Josh Lowe. And if you haven't met Josh, you're going to get a great refresher on what he's been up to. We actually spoke with Josh a hundred episodes ago, so stay tuned for more about what Josh has been up to and the EduBlocks experience. My name is Sean Tibor. I'm a coder that teaches and my. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Name is Kelly Schuster-Paredes, and I'm a teacher that codes. Sean Tibor: Yeah. So welcome, Josh, to the show again. It's great to have you back. Josh Lowe: Yeah, thanks for having me. Excited to be here. Sean Tibor: Yeah, we had to go back and look it up. You were on episode 13 with us. So way back in the beginning when we got started, and I think for years after that, we've talked about how great it was to have you on the show and talked about the project that you're working on and how amazing EduBlocks is and what a remarkable developer you are. And so it's really wonderful to have you back and get the opportunity to catch up with where you are and what you've been working on lately. Josh Lowe: Yeah, lots going on. So perfect time to do it. Yeah, lots to talk about. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Excellent. I was just saying at the beginning of the show, I was giddy and very goofy and laughing and like, oh, my God, this kid is, like, amazing. I just want to have him in my class. And I'm so excited to have you back. Josh Lowe: No, thanks. Harm me. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Trying to hide my excitement talking to you backstage, but I'm just going to be giddy again. You can listen to the first five minutes of the past show and just see how nerdy I was back then. The teacher's delight to have such an amazing well, now he's an adult, so I can't call him a young kid anymore. Josh Lowe: I appreciate it anyway. Sean Tibor: Excellent. Kelly, why don't we get started with the wins of the week before we get into catching up? Josh, why don't you go first? If there's anything you'd like to share, something great that's happened inside or outside of the classroom, office, keyboard, wherever it's happening, we'd love to hear about it. Josh Lowe: Sure. So I'm not going to spoil what it is because we'll come on to that, but the next big feature in EduBlocks this week, which was unexpected, I didn't expect it to happen this week. I kind of, like, got all the individual pieces done for this feature to kind of work. So all that I need to do now is kind of put them all together and hope that they work. But, yeah, it was kind of a win to have everything all kind of working on their own and then I can put it together and release that feature. So, yeah, making good progress with that. Sean Tibor: Isn't it great when it all starts to fit together. Josh Lowe: Exactly. Sean Tibor: Starting to click. It's great. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: That's awesome. That's awesome. Just to be able to focus on it. I'm not even talking anymore. I'm trying to wait till later when you bring up the feature. Josh Lowe: Now I'm intrigued. Sean Tibor: I'm ready for more. Josh Lowe: No spoilers yet. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Yeah, no spoilers. Sean, you go. Sean Tibor: Okay, let's see here. So my Win this week has been a lot of great progress at work with our platform. We've been setting up a whole AWS cloud platform environment and we're getting towards the end of summer internship at the same time. So a lot of things are happening in the last week. Interns are gearing up for their final presentations. They're getting their final deliverables together from their summer. Like, that's exciting just from kind of a know, professional growth and development perspective. But then on the other side, we've been shipping a lot of new great code, bringing on a lot more applications and workloads onto our platform and it's been just sort of the same thing. Josh, that really satisfying feeling of everything starting to fall into place that you've been working at for so long. So my Win has really just been seeing it all come together over the last couple of weeks between interns and the platform and everything. And I don't know how much I'm supposed to share about the details of the platform, but a lot of really big projects are starting to use our platform and I'm starting to see a lot of those activity measures run along. And it was like kind of that cool moment where I was looking at our cost data and saw this huge spike in network costs and I realized that it was because someone was transferring a huge amount of data onto and through our platform and it was really satisfying to see it actually happening. So it was pretty cool to see. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: You'Re just a nerd and you just like seeing graphs and bings and bops. Sean Tibor: Face it, I am in good company on this podcast. I will have you know. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: You are? That's funny. Well, I got two more weeks of I'm not doing anything related to work and coding. Sorry, guys. So two more weeks before I go back and actually next week I start with our pre planning. For our pre planning. So this week, my wednes I think I'm going to put on my LinkedIn account as like, project manager or social media expert because I've lined up some really good guests coming up and it's been a great summer of just getting back into the podcast. After Sean and we had our hiatus, we made a vow to get to work this summer and he's been doing it well and keeping the recording. So we've hitting like 370 followers on LinkedIn, which I think is pretty cool, and just some really good people that I've talked to that might be coming on the show. I really have been digging into who's been using Python and it seems like everybody now is even more so using Python. Netflix, Instagram, I know they always did it in the past, but I'm starting to see things like green technology and using Python to reduce the carbon footprint. A lot of stuff in the UK with that. So, I don't know. Just been learning a lot with that. And that's my new role, I think I'm just going to put it on my skills on LinkedIn. Social media expert. Sean Tibor: I think I challenged you last night to swing for the fences on booking guests. Just throw it out there and see who says, yes. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: I threw it out there this morning. Sean Tibor: You've already been doing that, so it's great. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: We'll see what happens. See what I catch. Nice. Sean Tibor: All right, well, let's jump right in because I am super excited to talk about EduBlocks and talk with you, Josh, about what you've been up been there's been a lot that's happened since the last time we talked, nearly four years ago, or maybe even almost closer to five. We've had we've had a global pandemic. There's been all sorts of celebrities that have gotten into and out of trouble. There's been elections and government overthrows, all sorts of things. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: And Josh graduated. Sean Tibor: And Josh graduated. Josh Lowe: Right. Sean Tibor: So all this is happening in the background. What's been going on with you? What have you been up to since the last time we talked? I think the last time we talked, you were 15 years old. You're now working as a fully fledged software developer. Josh Lowe: Yeah. So last time I was here, I was still in school. I planned on doing my exams, which didn't end up happening, because COVID, I guess. And that kind of like, really I think that was the tipping point of kind of like, I don't want to use thrown out of school. But it did feel that way. It kind of like one day in March saying, oh, you don't go to school anymore, you're kind of done with school now, you don't do your exams. And that kind of really, for me, was the tipping point of, know, I got to decide what I want to do know. My plan was to go on to the next stage of education, college. Here in the UK. That's a bit different. In the US, college means something else. But that was what I was going to do. I'd applied and everything, but then I found out that I could do an apprenticeship, which was essentially like being able to do a full time developer job, but have education on the side and get a qualification. So I found a local company to do that and that's what I ended up doing. And Edgerbox was this thing going on in the side at that point. There was a few users, a few schools that used it, and I was speaking to teachers, kind of developing the platform and like I always had been, but it was all this side hobby, I guess. And yeah, it was kind of just something that I pursued in my spare time. So I got this job, I did my apprenticeship, did that full time for a few years. And that was kind of like my entry into the next phase of my life, I guess, of being able to do my dream job of being a software developer. So that's what I did. And Edublocks, in those years where I did the full time job after my apprenticeship, it had gone on to something that I couldn't have even believed possible when I started it. And just give a bit of context. I started EduBlocks as a Saturday afternoon project and kind of just thought, oh, well, I'll make this thing, this seems like a good idea, I'll put it out and never touch it again. I wouldn't have believed you if I said I'd still be working it seven years later, because that definitely wasn't the plan. But it gained in popularity, people kelly liked the concept and it's been through many different developments and phases since then. And I think what really I can't quite remember the last time if it was kind of at this state, but supporting Python on the web and supporting Edublocks as like a browser application kind of really boosted its popularity because it didn't require anyone to install anything, you could just load up the browser and go. So, yeah, I continued it in my spare time and it sort of got to the point where it was probably the full time job of a few people rather than just me. And this was something I was just know in my evenings. And then, you know, last year, at the end of last year, I was approached by Anaconda, who is a company I've known for years through like, being in the Python community, going to Pycons, all that sort of thing. And they were interested in acquiring it because Anaconda is in the Python world, all about kind of upskilling people with Python skills. And for them, EduBlocks was a natural fit to kind of cater for that K through twelve education market, trying to upskill people with Python skills at a younger age. And yeah, here we are. So now they own Edge of Edublocks. I work on it full time with some amazing people and it's going from strengths to strengths. There's lots of new features in the works, lots of new features just been released and really excited for the future because I can dedicate a lot more time to it, a lot more resources, and we can really kind of build something that helps teachers all around the world, which is really exciting. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Don't lie. You were seriously doing like a happy dance in the background when Anaconda approached you. Josh Lowe: You were just like, yeah, I was. I'll admit it's an amazing opportunity, right, to be able to turn your hobby into a job but also get to work with some really talented people in the Python community every day. For me, it's all about what can I learn from others, and that's a really good opportunity as well. There's lots of exciting things going on at Anaconda that can benefit Edublocks, such as Pyscript, what we're going to come on to, I'm sure, and lots of things that Edge Block can benefit Anaconda as well. So it's kind of a really good partnership that is going to allow us to do some really cool things and is already letting us do really cool things. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: That's awesome. And to give context sorry, I'm going to take Sean, she's going to probably summarize it to give context what EduBlocks is and was when we first met you. It was a browser base for us, and we showed it in class, and it's great. It's a block programming. You want to explain it better for us, Josh? Josh Lowe: Sure. Yeah. I should have started with that. No, that's good. Yeah. EduBlocks is well, so think of Scratch, but for text based coding. So the idea is you have the Scratch blocks and the Scratch sort of like looking environment where you can drag and drop the blocks to build code. But instead of the blocks having, like, when green flag clicked or move ten steps, say hello world, something like that, the blocks actually represent Python code. So one block is equal to one line of Python code. So it's all about providing a friendly and familiar environment, but for learning text based coding. Because in the talk that I did at EuroPython, I kind of explained that it's quite a big jump from scratch, which is this visual sort of fun thing to do. And then you get thrown into a blank text prompt when you load up. Python. So it's all about providing that middle stepping stone in between the visual block based environment, but teaching the concepts that Scratch doesn't teach of text based coding. So it's all about bridging the gap between the two. But you don't have to start with Scratch. I think that's also an important thing because blocks are great for anyone who just wants to learn about coding. So essentially, it's just a really fun and easy way to learn text based programming is probably my one line summary of it. Yeah. Sean Tibor: And actually, I think having taught a lot of people to code, some with EduBlocks and some without it, one of the things that I've grown to appreciate is the way that the visual metaphor helps teach concepts in a way that is sometimes difficult to do with text. It's everything from the way that we include nested code blocks within things like for loops or conditional statements. It's sometimes hard for people to understand that the indentation means something in Python. Right. But when you have the visual block there that shows, okay, here's the start and the end of the for loop and the blocks that are nested inside that are part of that loop. People get that very quickly. It's an easy concept for them to grasp because they can see that the way the block links all of that together and encapsulates it. So for me, being able to show people sometimes with EduBlocks is a much easier way of helping to convey the concept than text based coding has been. And so we can flip back and forth between block based and text based coding very easily, particularly with IG blocks, because it does turn every block into one line of code. So I can see exactly what kind of code gets created from the blocks that I use. And it's so good that this is the way that I'm teaching my own children how to code, because they can see it that way, and they can go back and forth between the visual representation and the text representation. Josh Lowe: Yeah. And I think it's all about trying to lowe that barrier to entry into text based coding. So it's about focusing on the concepts rather than how do I type the code? And I think that's really important, being able to relate to the blocks in Scratch that you might be familiar with or just being able to see, like you've just said, where a for loop ends and where it starts. That's kind of like the concept of just providing that really easy sort of entry point into Python text based programming in general. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Yeah, and I loved it back then, but it's gone through so many changes now that I just love it even better. And it's that concept. Every time someone opens up and I'll back it up a little bit every time someone opens up a block base, like scratch and they flip and they're like, oh, well, you can see the JavaScript code or whatever, it just doesn't look you couldn't read it back and forth. And everyone would say, can you help me with this? And I was like, I don't know. Block can't. It doesn't make sense. But with EduBlocks, maybe a little spoiler because, you know, I know a little bit about Python, but it's nice because, you know the flow. You can see it writing out right next. You don't have to flip or toggle between block and writing. It's just side by side and it's quite nice and selfish. Me is thinking to myself, wow, if only our lower school could start using this, then I wouldn't have to teach a basic 6th grade Python course anymore. I can start doing really cool stuff in 6th, 7th and 8th and go up there. So it is so accessible for the younger kids, for sure. Eight, seven, start plugging in. So that's pretty cool. And just like adding. You want to tell us about the features in there? Because I know it has microbit, I know it had turtle, and you've added a lot more other things that are in there that it can work with. Josh Lowe: Yeah. So it's all about kind of making it sort of like fun and engaging. So you can teach python in a very boring way, and that can put people off, I suppose. But there are some ways to do it, which Edublocks tries to focus on. So using things like turtle to be able to visualize the python code, and the great thing about Turtle is it's very quick to get something that looks really complicated or looks really fun if you're doing like artwork and things like that. And it's just a really easy way to do that. So that's definitely the most popular sort of use case, using Turtle as kind of like an introduction to Python. And like you said, there's things like the microbits, so if you want to do physical computing and being able to use sensors, like temperature sensors, light sensors, all that sort of thing, that provides an easy way into doing that sort of stuff. So, yeah, it's all about kind of making it frontal in Python as well. And one of the new features that we've just released is extensions, which is going to allow third parties to integrate with Edublocks. So one of the examples is machine Learning for Kids, which is quite a big platform over here in the UK, and it's starting to make its way over into the US. And it's essentially a really easy to use tool to allow you to build machine learning models. So, like, recognizing text, images, sounds, all that sort of stuff. And then once you've built your machine learning model, you can use it with scratch Python and also EduBlocks now via the extension. So machine learning AI, it's a really relevant topic, so that's kind of incorporating some of that into it as well. And the extension's capability is going to open up a lot more possibilities like that one for third parties to kind of build their stuff in and integrate. And all you need is a python library that runs in the browser. So, yeah, lots of fun things opening up with that, but there's a lot in there already. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: That's awesome. Is that the machine learning for kids with Dale? Josh Lowe: Yes. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: So that's awesome. We had an episode on that we'll repost as well. That's awesome because there's a lot of really good learning tools in there, building out your product for training and everything. And with AI coming into play, how great is it just to be able to do that with blocks as well? Pretty cool. I see in here, HTML too. Josh Lowe: Yeah. So HTML was an addition, I think it was last year, and that's kind of just, again, applying the block concept of mapping one to one with a line of code, but now with HTML, and that's another very relevant kind of area of programming, being able to build your own website. A lot of schools teach it, so it's not just python that edge of locks can be used for, even though that is the main use case and will remain just because of how important it is to learn Python and how widely used it is within education. But it's kind of just opening it up to more things. So, yeah, that's another really fun one because again, HTML is quite easy to use once you know how to use it. So providing the blocks provides a playground to be able to build your own websites. Yeah, that was a really fun addition that was added. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: I'm reading it and I was just like, wow, trying to think get my head wrapped around the HTML because just doing with the data visualization course that I just did, how I could have cheated a little bit with, I guess not really cheated, but been a little bit added. Help with the little block and then classrooms. That's a new one too. I saw that came out recently too, where the educators can kind of have a class assignment. Is that what I think it is? Josh Lowe: Yes. So classrooms essentially allows teachers to add their students to a group and then set assignments. So the idea is that if you have a task that you want to do in a classroom, like a physical classroom, you can say, like, I want lesson one to be in my module and kind of give a description of what you want the students to do. And then you can set some starter code, which is essentially code that loads up when the students open the assignment. So it's all about providing teachers a tool to easily collect in student work and also market as well. So once a student has submitted their work to the assignment, they can go in and give feedback to the student and the student can then read that feedback and kind of see how they can improve. So, yeah, it's all about just providing an easy tour to use EduBlocks in the classroom. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Very cool. Sean's making me laugh with your, I guess at your fan club. I won't tell them that my family's a Chelsea fans are not in Chelsea. I'm getting a lot of booze. Please don't hate know. It's not me, it's my kids. They were born in Chelsea Hospital. It's only by default, not because of anything else. Sean I didn't want to hoard the. Sean Tibor: Kelly. I wanted to learn more about the curriculum work too, because I know that that's the other half of this equation is not just the tool and the platform to help teachers, but also how do they best leverage what the platform can do for their students. So I was curious about where that work is coming from and how teachers can use that. Josh Lowe: Yeah, like you said, you can create software, but it's no use without that supporting material. So, yeah, the curriculum is another development that has happened since I was last on. And what that is all about is it provides six lessons, which are kind of a journey of introducing Python. So you're learning it through Turtle, which we've just mentioned. So you're learning the core concepts, like variables, functions, data types, all those sort of things that are really core to learning Python, but in a fun way with Turtle. So, yeah, it provides six lessons which teachers can use. It has like slideshows, lesson plans, it's mainly focused around the UK curriculum, but it can be used anywhere. But that's just what it was based around. And then at the end there's like an assessment that students can do, like an exam and you can kind of teachers can assess how the students have done in the past six lessons. So, yeah, that's a free sort of way to get into teaching Python by just simply downloading some lessons that are already pre done. And curriculum is something that since joining Anaconda, we're very focused on. So kind of like providing materials and improving the offerings around that. So a lot more to come on that front because we know how important providing that material is as well as the software. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: 100%. And I can imagine because I remember faintly when we last talked, you had some teachers that you had had as instructors or something and they were supporting the EduBlocks. And the thought was that there's not many computer science teachers really out there and those that we do have leave and go to Mondelez. No, I'm kidding. Okay, all right, no, I'm just kidding. But it is a difficult thing and then just be able to provide some support for educators out there is kind of great. Have you heard of any other schools? Are they contacting you or are they like word of mouth getting out there for the new school year? What's in the mean it's helping a. Josh Lowe: Lot of educators get so yeah, I talk to educators a know both in the UK and the US. Which is like the two main countries. And that's really important for me because it allows me to know what I need to focus on. I can sort of have an idea myself of what I think should be added to the platform, but these are the people who are using it day to day. So everything that I try and do and kind of like the wider Anaconda team because it's a team now, we're very much like trying to talk to educators to find out what they want and that's going to be and always will be the main driving force behind the product. So, yeah, I talk to educators a lot of how it's helping their students. And with the new release that we've just done, there's a few kind of teachers that I can think of that I work with closely to develop the classroom feature, for example. And again, that was just all about making teachers lives easier because teachers are very busy people. So what can I do to try and make that you know, on the last podcast I'm sure you've just mentioned, what I think you mentioned is I talked about teacher training and the lack of that here in the UK. Unfortunately, we're four years on, and it's not really got much better. And yeah, so my work is very much focused, and the Anaconda team's work is focused on how can we make the lives of teachers easier through providing stuff like the curriculum and stuff that we want to work on next in terms of learning resources. And that's why the curriculum is kind of like a full set rather than just like, here's some projects. It's like, here's the lesson plans, here's the slideshow. So you can just go and deliver it, obviously with a few tweaks because every class is different. But that's sort of the idea behind that. So, yeah, talking to educators a lot is something that I do. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Can you get it to grade for me? Eventually, if we can just dump it in and it's like peer feedback and turn it in, which is like a word grading here. I'm giving you all kinds of ideas, Josh. Every teacher's dream, grade it and dump it into export it into our gradebook. Josh Lowe: Yeah, grading is something that, especially with a classroom tool, we want to look at. Yeah, it's an obvious one, right? You set an assignment and why can't I, as a teacher say, this is what I expect, and go and mark it? So, yeah, it's a very obvious feature that I'm sure will come at some point. And just to mention, whilst we're kind of on that topic, edublocks kind of has, like, a public feedback board where students, teachers can submit ideas and can upvote the ideas on that board. And that's kind of like how we pick what to work on next. And from what I remember, something like that is very high up on the list. So, yeah, definitely something that I'm thinking about a lot. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: That's awesome. Sean, can I flip the topic? Okay, so there's two sides of the story, right? So there's Josh, who's EduBlocks and Anaconda. Awesome. But for me, and probably for a lot of educators, and Sean, just the inspiration side of your story. We have another cousin team in London that we interviewed. Their surrey are the same. It's like an inspiration for a lot of kids. And a lot of kids think, I'm 15 years old, what am I going to do? Or what difference am I going to make? And here you are, four years down the road, skipping uni for something, no offense, better. What could you provide for the kids? Just give some here's your choice chance to be inspirational. Give your chance to tell the kids around the world, how can they do what you do? Josh Lowe: Well, I think it's important to kind of just say that if you have an idea and you really. Go for it, then you can do it. I said earlier that Edublocks was a Saturday afternoon project after I kind of learned the basics of how to code. And I never sort of imagined that I would be doing this, what I am now. So if you have an idea, just go for it, because you'll never know if you don't. And I think that age does come into it of like, oh, well, I'm 15, so I can't really do it because that's something that an adult needs to do. But it's all about making the right connections and really just pushing what you're doing and going for it. And I think that's really important to just go for whatever idea that you've got and that way it will succeed because there's no one stopping you doing it. So, yeah, that's what I would say. Sean Tibor: I was going to ask because I think a lot of people give up when it gets hard, right? Like, they go find something else to do or something that they know they can accomplish. But when it gets hard and sometimes it feels impossible, the hardest thing to do in response is to keep going, right? So in your journey with Anaconda and EduBlocks and all of these different steps along the way, were there times when it got really hard and you didn't know how you were going to solve the problem or what? Was going to happen next and kind of, how did you get past that? Or how did you get through it to the other side? Josh Lowe: Yeah, there's a lot of times I think I can recall back to last year where it was sort of like edublocks had become this thing where it was I don't want to say unmaintainable, but it took up a lot of my time. And, yeah, it was kind of like, I've been doing this for seven years. Do I really want to keep on doing it? And what kept me going was I just said I talk to teachers a lot who use it, and hearing the impact that it has on the students, and students wanting to go further in their maybe pursuing software development as a career like I have, I think that's what really kept me going in those times of like, oh, this is too difficult. I don't really want to work on this anymore. It was really kind of like hearing the impact that it's had because I never imagined the impact that it's had. Now I'm probably safe in saying there's been millions of students who have used Azure blocks and for me, that's a huge thing to have reached that many people. So I just think about that when things get difficult, and they will get difficult, if you want to pursue an idea and you want it to succeed, it's not going to be an easy journey. I definitely thought that at the start of that, I'll just do this thing for a weekend and see how it goes. But if you actually want to make something of it, the journey is difficult. But I would say the end result is definitely worth it. You've just got to persevere and see it through. So I just always think of the impact that it has, and I think that's applicable to a lot of projects. People work on this space inspiring the next generation of coders, because I was eight years old once, learned to code, and now eight year olds are using my thing and I'm trying to inspire that next generation. So that's definitely what I always think of to keep me going. Sean Tibor: I think the other thing that holds people back too, is the thought that what they create won't be good enough, right? And by extension, that they're not good enough to do this. And I think now that you've been doing this for seven years, you can look back on it and see the early work that you did and see those early versions. And I'm sure that you are probably more critical than anybody else about those early versions of EduBlocks. How do you feel about the code that you wrote back then? Is it something that you're proud of? Is it something that makes you cringe? How do you look at that and compare that to what you're doing today? Or do you even compare it at all? Is there a way to help people understand that getting something out there is the most important thing, not necessarily how good it is? Josh Lowe: Yeah, it's definitely not code I would write today, but it's not even applicable to the application it is now. I guess EdgeBox has been a product, but it's been through so many iterations and it's not been the same thing throughout its whole entire life. So, yeah, I definitely think that getting something out there is the most important because it took a while for edibles to get traction. The education space is definitely difficult to kind of break into, I would say. And to get adoption isn't an overnight thing. So you really just have to kind of fail, see what works and learn from those mistakes. And like I've said a lot of times, speak to the people who use it because that's how you will find out what works. But I think that now I definitely probably don't look back on stuff that I've done all those years ago, but I definitely remember the things that haven't worked. And I know that if I'm developing something new, I remember all those things that I've done that didn't necessarily work. So, yeah, just kind of keep putting stuff out there and see what works and then you will eventually find what you need to do. Like Edgy. Edublocks, what it was seven years ago isn't what it is now. And there's a reason behind that because I've learned what people want. So, yeah, it's definitely been a journey in those seven years to get to where it is now. But I think definitely over the past year or two, it's really found what it is, it's found its identity, it's found what it's trying to aim for. And that makes feature development a lot easier because I sort of know where I need to go with it, whereas that was pretty unclear in the first few years. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: So it's funny. I'm sitting in here writing my mental list and it's all these educational, bling words that we talk about a lot, about developing learners that can have grit and perseverance, that can understand that feedback and iteration on a project is actually necessary. And things are not going to look pretty and things are going to fail, and things are going to be hard. And having a dream and creative ideas are important. Anything else I missed? I mean, this is like a teacher's dream, right? Yeah. They taught you perseverance check. Any other skills? So a lot of educators out there, listen, we're designing curriculum for the AI learners. Any other things? Because this is your opportunity to tell all the educators, what do the students actually need? I know, yes, okay, math, English, whatever, but what do they actually need to develop as kids in order to be in the place where you are? Because you kind of did the fast track. You got those skills, Kelly. Your mentors, your parents, your family really helped you build those skills. And what other skills put you on the spot so many times? Sorry, Josh, you're just so smart. You can handle it. I know. Josh Lowe: I was trying to think. I think I've mentioned quite a lot, and I think the thing that I have really found useful I might be dodging the question here, but that was not my intention. The thing that I've really found useful is making those connections within the Python community. And I think if you really want to get into this space, there's so many people you can learn from. I think that's the biggest thing that I've kind of taken away from my whole journey of that I don't know everything, and that's not something I'm ashamed of. And every day is a school day, even though I'm not in school anymore, and learning from people within the community. And I think that's what is really special about Python as a programming language is that it's very much this community thing. Everyone's not isolated. Everyone's trying to help each other out. You go to a Python, and all the people that you meet there sharing knowledge, trying to learn from each other. So that's always something that I kind of say that is very important. And something that I use now, is that if you have an opportunity to learn something from someone, then take the opportunity and learn it. I think that is probably the most important skill to build those connections and learn from people. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: I love that it's beautiful. Sean Tibor: I have a follow up question to that, especially as you've kind of made the transition from being in school to being in the apprenticeship. And now, as a software developer, are there specific skills or habits or traits that you've picked up from being a software developer that you found particularly useful in other parts of your life, whether it's other school subjects or learning how to bake or cook or whatever it is, but just some of those traits and skills that have been valuable in other areas of your life. Josh Lowe: I think before I kind of made the transition to being a full time software developer, I was possibly quite isolating that I never really worked on a team before, so I never really realized the value of teamwork and what that can bring. And yeah, I very much liked doing the things on my own before, but now I'm the complete opposite. I'd rather be working with someone on a project to bounce ideas off them and just get someone else's input. I can think something at work might be a good idea if I'm working on a new feature, but then someone could question bring up a question that I necessarily hadn't thought of myself when thinking of that idea. And that teamwork kind of philosophy is very applicable to other areas of life as well. Definitely. Teamwork is something that I just never really sort of had experience with before. But now I work with a team every day, so it's a skill that I really use a lot. So yeah, that's definitely what I've picked up during that transition of being a student to working full time as a software developer. Sean Tibor: Nice. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: I'm thinking about all those failed projects that teachers assign, but it is important. Teamwork, communication, community. It's like a thing. Three C's. Creativity, communication, and critical thinking. Check. Check. Josh Lowe: Awesome. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Anything else we need to know about EduBlocks? Anaconda. You're going to start putting in the Anaconda notebook into EduBlocks too? Kind of drag and drop? Josh Lowe: Well, I think that's quite important. I think we're very aware and I'm very aware that people aren't going to use Edgerbox forever. So providing a way to transition people over to something like a jupyter notebook or that vs. Code or text based programming environment, I think it's something that I'm very aware of and edible doesn't necessarily do right now. It's sort of like, here's your block based environment and then have fun and find something after you've graduated as such. So yeah, graduating into a proper coding environment as such is something that yeah, I think I'm very aware of, but I don't really know what that looks like yet. It is a consideration, but in terms of other things to mention, I think I've kind of touched on it a lot of times over the past 45 minutes. But EduBlocks again is a user driven project. Try it out, give feedback, and help us improve it. It's a really exciting time. Time to be kind of using it and be part of the kind of Azure Edublocks community. So come and join us because there's a lot of things coming, like PY scripts that I kind of touched on very briefly, being able to run full Python in the browser and publish web apps using Python. It's an open source project which some of my Anaconda coworkers work on. And that's something that I mentioned, the big feature that I'm working on next, that's what that is. So, yeah, that's a really exciting thing because I'm going to be able to include so many more Python libraries like Map Potlib and all those sort of really cool popular things. So that's going to open up a lot of doors and also kind of just some of the things that Pyscript sort of enables of being able to interact with HTML elements, build graphical user interfaces really quickly. I think that's going to provide a lot more fun and engaging stuff, which is sort of whole philosophy of learning code for Azure Box. So, yeah, lots of exciting things coming up, and please reach out with any feedback that anyone has very much open to. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: That very cool. I see a lot of good projects coming around this August for some computer science classrooms, and I'm definitely going to be hitting up the lower school teachers to skip all that JavaScript stuff. I'm just kidding. And the cat meowing. No offense, Scratch, but that's just super cool. Sean Tibor: Yeah, I'm excited to see what the future brings. It's great to have the resources of Anaconda behind it now. And what a great partnership, really, to have Anaconda step into this space. They've done a lot of great things for the Python community, so to have their support and sponsorship of EduBlocks going forward is really going to open up a lot of doors for us. I'm excited to see what that will. So I think we're just about out of time. So I want to say thank you, Josh, for joining us again. It's been fabulous catching up with you, just really enjoyable to talk with you about everything that's going on. I know in the last four years, seeing the progress that EduBlocks has made is amazing and remarkable, and to be able to know that you're making progress as well as a developer and being able to build your career has been really gratifying to see as well. So thank you for coming on the show and joining us and catching up with us. It's been a lot of fun to chat and we can't wait to see what's next. Josh Lowe: No thanks, Herme. And it'll be interesting to do this in another four years and see where it's at, because if you'd kind of made me make a list four years ago of what it would look like now, I probably would have got everything wrong. So, yeah, thanks Me, and look forward to what's to come. Sean Tibor: Excellent. Well, if you want to try out EduBlocks for yourself, you can go to edublocks.org. It's not just for kids. Adults can enjoy it just as well. So make sure that you go check it out. There's the curriculum there. There's the ability to code save projects. It's really pretty amazing. And you can keep track of all the things that are happening with EduBlocks through that space for Teaching python if you want to connect with us, you can connect with us on Twitter, which is now known as X. I'm very confused. And on that note, I don't know if I'm getting into my old age and yelling from my porch, but I feel like social media has gotten weird. So my ask to you, our listeners, is to share this with someone else. Share our podcast with another person, whether it's in chat or side by side on the couch, but share the podcast with someone you think would appreciate it and enjoy it, and needs to learn a little bit about how computer science education could really work. So share it with someone else. And if you also have the opportunity to share a review of our podcast from the listeners, as Josh said, the people who are using our podcast, please share us some feedback on your podcast listener of choice, whether that's itunes or Spotify or any of the other podcast players that are out there. We'd love to hear from you and love to hear what you're getting out of the podcast. You can also send us direct feedback through our website at teachingpython FM. And again, we also have a Patreon page for anyone who would like to financially support the show. It definitely helps keep things running, keeps the lights on, and we appreciate all of your support from our ongoing Patreon supporters. Kelly, is there anybody else I forgot to thank? I think I need to thank the Academy or something. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: I do recommend sharing for me as getting ready for this august come around and going back to school in two weeks. This little motivation of talking to you, Josh, I was looking forward to it since I contacted you, like, two months ago, and I was like, Josh is coming on the show. Josh is coming on the show. John's like yeah. Happy dance. Kelly but it's you and young adults like you and others who kind of keep us going. It takes one inspirational learner and student to really give a little boost. And if you're a teacher and you know someone that or you know somebody who teaches computer science, share it to them this episode. And yeah, just kind of makes you feel good that we still have kids that love learning. Young adults. Sorry, not kids. I'm just getting old. Sean Tibor: All right, so once again, thank you, Josh, for coming on the show. And definitely, let's not make it four years before we reconnect. We'll be watching with great interest all the things that you're doing at EduBlocks and with Anaconda. Thank you, Josh. Kelly, it's been a pleasure, as always. So I'm going to sign it off here for teaching Python. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: This is Sean and this is Kelly signing off.