Really Specific Stories: David Brown Duration: 41:32 SPEAKERS David Brown, Martin Feld Martin Feld 00:21 Thank you so much, David, for joining Really Specific Stories. It's great to have you on as a listener of podcasts and I want to kick off the conversation by asking you a very broad question: how did you first get into podcasts? David Brown 00:35 That's a really good question, 'cause um sometimes I try and think about that. I think the first experience I had was following Russell Ivanov-... Ivanovic(?), who worked for I think, Shifty Jelly at the time. And they used to make Pocket Weather, the Australian weather app. And I'm pretty sure that was sort of my first big exposure when they released Pocket Casts app way back then. And I think that's when I really started to um look into it a bit more seriously. I think Apple did have, you know, like, a foray into it at that but I wasn't really doing much that needed other time. I had a young family; cars didn't have great ability to listen to external devices. Like, it's hard to believe, you know, to plug in, say your iPhone in and listen to something was very hard work. So, you know, it was a much harder time to listen to podcasts. So, I think just when I went for a walk, I might have given it a go at that stage. But I think as the, as the tech developed, or I got into, I know my biggest time was um, I'm a runner and I was listening to music when I first started running, which I think is what most people do. And then I think I found as I ran more, I got bored of listening to music and wanted something to just kill the time, you know, like in your in your head. And that's when I really started getting into podcasts then. And, you know, discovering more, you know, through through the apps, I think, yeah, I think I switched around in different podcast apps, depending. But certainly I think that was sort of a kick-off, if that's a strange way of doing it. Just someone releasing an app and go, yeah, I'll give it a go from there. Martin Feld 02:20 That's really interesting, so podcasting became a thing for you, as you said, to kill the time while running. As opposed to music, what was the thing about these shows early on that you were listening to that drew you in? Why were they more engaging the music? David Brown 02:35 Oh I think definitely, like appealing to interests that I had, so definitely in the tech space was somewhere that I suppose I went straight into and trying those sorts of podcasts out. I think my first experience was, oh I'm going to pause while I think. Martin Feld 02:55 Mm-hmm... David Brown 02:55 What's that one? Ah... it was a big one. Oh, Leo Laporte, can you remember its name? Martin Feld 03:00 Yes, yes... David Brown 03:00 What was that one called? Can you remember? Martin Feld 03:01 Was it This Week in Tech or...? David Brown 03:03 Yes! OK! Martin Feld 03:04 I might have got the name wrong, but yes, Leo Laporte. David Brown 03:06 Yeah, so like the tech ones differently This Week in Tech was something, mainly because that's, you know, like, when you're first getting into podcasts, you just look at the top 10 charts, and started experimenting. I think that's a really big space for getting people, you know, like that first experience where it certainly was for me, and then I think as I just started following different people on Twitter, you'd find like other Twitter users that may have a podcast or, you know, like, start mentioning other things and other places. So that was definitely it! So I suppose it was the hooking in getting into my interest that I weren't seeing, wasn't seeing in other spaces, I guess. Martin Feld 03:46 And what kinds of thing were you taking from the content? What was it about not only your interest in technology, but what were you gaining in your consumption of these podcasts? David Brown 03:57 I suppose just hearing that, the voice of it all um and, you know, developing a relationship because I think once you start listening to the same podcast regularly, you get to pick up on the personalities of the hosts. And, you know, like, there's a difference between writing and, like writing, reading someone's writing doesn't always give away that personality, where when they're just talking ad hoc about it, it's not scripted, it's not edited, I find that's easier to get, you know, like, develop that relationship. So I suppose you get that hook that way, which sometimes, like, leads to stop listening to a podcast; you feel like, you do feel um, a connection to those hosts, even though they don't know who you are. And yeah, you feel like you're like, oh, you know, how do I give up some of these podcasts because I don't have time? So when when you do feel like it's, it's your weekly catch-up with them. Martin Feld 04:54 That's an interesting point: stopping listening to podcasts. How have your habits or preferences over time since then changed? Undoubtedly, you've stopped listening to some, started listening to others; can you tell me the story of how that's progressed? David Brown 05:10 Um, that varies. So, sometimes it could be um just changes in the content, or, you know, like the general feeling. I suppose I stopped listening to that particular This Week in Tech, mainly because I felt like the hosts, um, were going in a different direction in their um enjoyment of the technology I was. I think, I mean, it was a number of years ago, but they, I think they started getting into using like Android devices, and I was more interested in in using an iPhone. So that was like um, yeah, just a change in opinion and I wasn't so much interested in listening to that. And then I started to find more, you know, like, you find podcasts at the time; I think that was when I found The Prompt around that time and ATP. So they, those sorts, felt a bit more, you know, like, not so produced, but also, like appealing to what I was interested in, as well, so I suppose that's one thing is losing, sort of, like that connection with them. But also, you know, just there's been, like a number of things that have changed, you know, depending on like, say, the network might make a choice, um being bought out by Spotify um actually is an influence, you know, especially when they put it behind Spotify itself. So, I used to, I think there's a few good podcasts that have been bought up by Spotify that then go behind that wall of Spotify. And I'm not interested in that; I'd prefer to, you know, like, be able to access my podcasts from anywhere, you know, like, not the platform. David Brown 06:42 I've cut back on podcasts, just, you know, just like, I suppose the other one is, depending on how much I'm running is how much I can get through. So if I'm training a lot, I can get through more. And there was a period of time where I was running, listening to podcasts, and driving to work uh, half an hour each way that I was just getting through a very lot of podcasts. Um and then, my wife and I fostered a daughter, and she comes to work with me, like she, in the same school. So I had to cut back on my podcasts, because obviously, they don't appeal to a five-year-old at all. So then you have to make that decision of what makes the cut, and any, and you do have to get pretty tough about it and say, 'Look, that one's good, but I just don't have time in my day anymore to listen to it'. So it's just refining that process of picking them. I suppose at that time it is really like which ones have the most personal connection with you in a lot of ways but that happens, if it's not interest-based. And then this year I decided I wanted to get into... I suppose it wasn't a negative to to podcasts, but I did want to try listening to more audiobooks. So, that was a stage where I just went OK, I run, you know, like I should be running (I know it might sound scary) about eight hours a week, so I can fit into... David Brown 08:07 ...I can fit in like mid-week, get through, like listening to audiobooks, so through the week, and then on the weekend, I just listen to podcasts. So that's something I've done this year, just as a mindful activity, nothing like negative to podcasts. So then it made it a really tough cull, like I really got pretty tough on it. And even then, I've then... the ones that I do have is more because I really enjoyed what, what they're adding to you know, like to my life in that regard. So yeah, like it's trying to stay positive, and yep. Martin Feld 08:07 Wow... Martin Feld 08:43 No, that's wonderful. I can tell that you're, you're getting a lot out of your fandom, it seems, in a sense, or shared interests with the hosts that you're following. David Brown 08:54 Yeah, definitely, because the ones that I choose, it's like, am I covering... like, do I get to listen to the enough tech that I want to listen to? Do I get to, uh... I really like watching TV shows and movies, so I've got a podcast that I've found, and I've listened to them for a long time, like through the shows that they recalled, or they they watch. Um, so that's a network or bold move. They're pretty obscure. I don't know how big they are, but it's just something I discovered years ago. I think they, they were more watching TV shows that interested me. Yeah, I've just stuck with them. So even though like, so that's something that I don't know, you watch TV shows you might be the only person in your house that watches them, um, or friends, and then you feel like you listen to these podcasts and you're having that conversation with them. So even though you're never replying to them, like live, you're listening to him going, oh yeah, that's what I thought too! Or that's interesting! Like there's almost like a brain conversation going on, which is quite, you know, weird, but yeah, like I find that something, that I get something out of. I get to have the um, water-cooler talk um, in my head with people that don't even know I'm really listening, yeah. So yeah, so the podcasts that I listen to now are very into, like I have some attachment to them. Martin Feld 10:15 That's fascinating. So like when you mentioned that certain podcasters went from the devices that you associated with to things like Android or other ecosystems, was that kind of that change in fandom or focus that affected that kind of connection that you had with them personally, even though you weren't speaking to them? Is that what you're kind of describing? David Brown 10:36 Yeah, I suppose, especially it was like they they were expressing, I suppose their interest going another way, for whatever reason. And I suppose it didn't fit with what I was seeing at the same time. So, I suppose they're, like, you could say they, they decided that there was features on Android devices that they liked. And I went, well, I don't really care for that; I prefer what, you know, Apple's doing. Like, it may sound weird, but it was kind of like, and to be honest, they don't know who I am. It's not like breaking up with a best friend, you know, like... Martin Feld 11:09 Sure... David Brown 11:09 ...but even now, if someone says to me, 'I've got this Android device', I don't judge them for it. Like you just say, 'OK, that's fine'. Like, I'm not going to um, take anything away, but when they're in a podcast, you can just stop listening to them. Where in real life, you do have to keep them as your friend, so... yeah, so I suppose that was the thing there. But it could change in just like, the way that I suppose that they use technology could be different. That could be even a part of it. And even like the TV shows, ones that I watch or listen to, oh sorry, that I listen to, you know, like, if they're watching a show that I don't watch or have no interest in, then you just skip that episode, so they're a bit more easier to do, but if it's a weekly sort of chat sort of panel, you don't really know what you're gonna get until they start talking. And I suppose if their journey's going in a different direction, then that's fine. And I suppose yeah, yeah, that's it. Can I mention your podcast and why I listen to it, or is that another question? Martin Feld 12:10 By all means! It's wherever you want to go, so um... David Brown 12:12 Oh OK! Martin Feld 12:13 I have no expectation about what you may say about our show, but yeah, please, where that fits into your view or your experience—go for it! David Brown 12:20 Yeah, so I discovered Hemispheric Views through, I'm on an iMessage chat with some random people that we got together on the Internet. And I don't know if they'd describe it any other way than that, uh but we all chat through iMessage. Believe it or not, you can have a group chat through the world in iMessage! Um, we all persevere! But it's a, it's a great little chat group and there's a guy on there called Gabriel (or Gabz), and he sort of recommended Hemispheric Views. And I don't know if I knew at the time that there was Australians on it, but um, you know, like, I think I just gave it a go. And I mean, obviously, that was a massive hook, and especially having someone from Perth, it was even, you know, like, even more of a hook, like how can you? You know, like, it's very rare to find someone, you know, not just in Australia, but in Perth that you could, you know, have that, like relate to. So I suppose, again, that's that personal attachment, like, you know, Andrew might bring up stuff that, you know, is Perth-specific. And you're like, I know what he's talking about! Martin Feld 13:29 He certainly does, yes! David Brown 13:31 Yeah, yeah! And you don't get that normally in shows, so that was definitely helpful, um and I love the rivalry to into America as well, but I suppose the the biggest thing that I do like about that show is that you all seem very down-to-earth, and, you know, just enjoying the tech—never too critical, and yeah, using it for I suppose all the right reasons. Like, I never feel like, and you may change, when you become multimillionaires, but like... Martin Feld 14:02 Oh, well... David Brown 14:02 ...you don't feel like you just buy tech for the sake of tech and um, which kind of fits me better. I think that's, you know, and in my experience, not to put any, like negative on there, but some podcasts, like ATP and Connected, I've stopped listening to just because I found they, like, as much as they love the tech or they complain about the tech, it was starting to get, like: they have a lot more disposable income to buy whatever they want. Martin Feld 14:31 OK. David Brown 14:31 And it was, that was the barrier there I was finding is like, you know, but in some regard, I understand that they have to buy that because that's what their job is to talk about, you know, the latest and greatest thing. Martin Feld 14:44 Sure. David Brown 14:44 But I did find that a bit like, when you can afford any, any tech, you're not as critical in some ways because it's not like, you know, like a problem? They just go 'Oh OK, I'll just sell it and get something else'. You know what I mean? Like that, that's what I was finding. I don't know how that, yeah, so that's why like Hemispheric Views, it's just like, down-to-earth, and yeah. Martin Feld 15:09 Well that's, that's lovely to hear, thank you! It's always nice to receive listener feedback, so this is a good way to receive it. So, it sounds to me like across the different podcasts that you've listened to and where you've arrived at today: is it fair to say that a key word is 'relatability'? David Brown 15:25 Yeah, I think so, if I'm reflecting back on why choose something it's, it's got to relate to, it's got to relate to me and how I'm feeling and what I'm trying to get out of it at the time, you've got to have that connection somehow. You know, like, I've listened to true crime podcasts before. Casefile, I think is a big one, and I listened to lots of them, I think like, all the way through from zero to, into the hundreds. And then I found it was starting to get a bit depressing, because it's quite... Martin Feld 15:55 Right! David Brown 15:55 ...quite serious, what it's going through, and I suppose what was happening is, you know, like, I don't go for a run to sort of, I want it to be a positive experience, so as much as I liked the show, don't take anything away from it, it was starting to be, they cover some pretty gritty topics. If you're not in the right mindset, I might have not listened to it, but also it was like, I just don't want to think about it anymore. I'd like to think about more positive things, I guess. But then I do listen to Darknet Diaries, which is very, you know, that hacking podcast, which I really like, and I suppose that just um, I suppose maybe because that's not as dark in like, you know, like, what sort of crimes people are doing. But um, you know, I suppose it's that tech angle as well. Like, I really get into... now forgotten what you actually originally asked me. What did you say, sorry? Martin Feld 16:47 No, that's good. No, it was um, it's really about how you're engaging with, with different shows and that relatability but where you go, that's where I go. David Brown 16:55 So, I'll... well I'll add to that, then. Martin Feld 16:58 Go, go! David Brown 16:58 Yeah, so the other one is like, even... like I'll pose this as like, but this is I suppose me in some ways is like... Martin Feld 17:06 Mmm... David Brown 17:06 If I listened to say, some running podcasts, I've listened to them before, even them I find, as much as I'm a runner and I enjoy it, it's like listening to the same stories again, and again. So it's just interviewing the same people talking about their running journey. Martin Feld 17:22 Sure. David Brown 17:22 So even though I really like running, the ones I enjoy the most is, might be, how to get better at what you're doing and stuff like that, so... Martin Feld 17:30 Mmm... David Brown 17:31 Yeah, it's a funny one. And then sometimes like I get injured, so I can't run. It's like, I really don't want to listen about how great everyone else is at running. Like, it's, it's like mentally the last thing you want to listen to. So yeah, it does, they're then, they're more the difficult ones. I don't know how other people go, but yep. Martin Feld 17:49 So, what I'm gathering here, there there are differences in context for what you want to listen to, that will affect the topic or the genre that you want to engage with. So you've mentioned you've listened to different genres of podcasting (or different formats), you also engage with TV shows, and then fan content that's connected to that, then there's audiobooks. I'm wondering what you feel other than that (or you can expand on this if you want to) other than that relation to the podcast hosts you're listening to, are there things about podcasting, for better or worse, you know, affordances or disadvantages that you notice when you're consuming them, as opposed to something like audiobooks or TV? What things have you discovered? David Brown 18:30 I think the best thing about podcasts is, and it could be it's worse, is there's a lot out there, so you can find something that that you can latch onto. And I always say to people, always look at something you're interested in. So whenever some I mean, less people do it now because I think they are far more popular, but people used to say, 'Oh what should I listen to?', and I don't normally necessarily recommend my shows, it's more just start searching for a particular topic that you're interested in, and then just start from there and see how that fleshes out. So I suppose that's the biggest one is that they're very topic-based. And I suppose it's that personal... like, it's the personality that comes through it as well, so even some of the highly produced ones you can get the personality of the host, so that's in there. I'm less inclined to go with, I suppose, scripted ones. I think I've tried ones that are more like radio show, radio plays. Now whether I've always picked one, you know, I'm a bit dubious of the voice actors' ability to voice-act... David Brown 19:42 I suppose that's been the biggest hindrance, so if I feel like they're not (without being negative), they're not very good. They're not very good. So I can't immerse myself in there 'cause um, you know, like, I can't get past that, which is, you know, the type of person I am, I guess. So that's the difference there. So that's what I feel like, podcasts are like, they give you much more opportunities than other stuff. Obviously music's always good for um, like when I do run and I do, say I'm doing an interval session, um where I want to run fast, then music's obviously a good choice 'cause you get that, you know, like more, you know, I listened to sort of techno sort of, like high-beat-rate sort of music that, you know, like encourages you to run faster, that's much more easier to run to than a couple of people talking about their iPhone. Martin Feld 19:42 Mm-hmm... Martin Feld 20:39 I imagine so. David Brown 20:40 Yeah um, so like, so that comes into it, but I might do the warm-up and the cool-down listening to a podcast and then switch to the music as I'm running, just because music can affect your running speed, and I want to make sure um, I keep that in like, that's another thing I would say: spoken content, when you're trying to run slow, it will help you do that, because, you know, like, as soon as you put different musics on, it will make you like, either run to the beat of the music or whatever. So, yeah, if you're running out there, and you want to get better at running, you don't have to always run fast, and if you want to run slow, don't listen to music. Sorry, that's aside. Um and then the audiobooks, you know, like, it's just fitting in that, like another sort of method of listening and trying that out. And it's actually worked out quite well. So, I suppose I was listening to a book last year, but on and off, and then it was this year that I really did make the commitment that, you know, like I want to get through a series. The main reason was I was I wanted to get through the whole Expanse book series, which is nine books, and I think they're all about 20 hours each. And I thought if I listened to them for half an hour a week, that's going to take a long time. Um so I kind of went, I want to give this a go. It's it, I'm really enjoying it, um I sort of got to the end of book six, and then listened to a couple of other ones. So The Midnight Library and Honeybee, just as a little break from that series, but to me that obviously shows I'm enjoying listening to audiobooks, as well. But yeah, I don't know, it may change, and I'll, there's more podcasts coming into my queue that, you know, like I want to listen to, and that will adjust, yeah. Martin Feld 22:24 It seems like you spend, uh and correct me if I'm wrong, uh a good deal of time, thinking about the reason why you're listening to things. And I don't mean that as a criticism, it's uh your choosing and selecting things depending on what you want to get out of it or the context in which you're listening. Is that something you've always been very aware of or is that something that's developed over time? How actively is this in your brain? David Brown 22:50 I think being like, critical about what I do in my everyday life has developed over time for sure. I think there's a lot of people that like, that do do that. But certainly, yeah, I'm more and more of a, it's like, there's only a certain number of minutes in the day. And, you know, like I want to get, I want to make sure that I'm, I'm getting the most in that I want to and getting the right thing to happen around me. So, you know, like, whether it is like I say um, you know, listening, what I'm choosing to listen to or read or, you know, what's on my devices. It's it's, it's there's a lot of critical thinking going on in that process. But it has developed over time. I'm not young, I'm what 40... 44! So uh, when you ask my 20-year-old self, I think it might have been a bit more, yeah, just random, and yeah, yeah not really no, I feel like, at this age, I know myself a lot better than I did when I was younger. And I don't try and I suppose be someone else. I just go, this is, this is what I am and this is how I want to do things, yeah. Martin Feld 24:02 Fantastic, and you mentioned earlier that there was this iMessage group that you're on, and what you just said then reminded me, uh when you said that you're trying to balance time or select things, you know, that fit within your busy day. When it comes to communication with other listeners or fans or people who are in that kind of tech podcasting sphere, how do you balance discussion actively with other fans with the listening and everything else in your day? Do you, does that play a big role in your day or is that less so? David Brown 24:32 Yeah, that's that's actually a really good question because um, I suppose two things like, you know the with the Hemispheric Views has got the Discord channel, the, and then I've got this iMessage group... Martin Feld 24:46 Mm-hmm... David Brown 24:46 ...and I've tried to join some others before. I think BubbleSort, that that show um has a Slack channel that I think I jumped into, and I have found it difficult. Even um, Relay FM, I think I tried that for a month and they have a Discord channel, and that was probably a really tough experience because I think there's so many people in there. David Brown 25:09 I mean, I haven't figured out, it's actually something that I almost wanted to ask in the Hemispheric Views Discord: how do people handle their notifications? Because, you know, like that, that that Discord channel can go quite heavy and there's, I don't think there's heaps of people in there (like it's quite a sensible size), but um you know, you do find sometimes that there's a discussion going on and my Apple Watch is just going bang, bang, bang, bang! I mean, I do use focus modes on my devices, so during the day while I'm at work, I don't get any Discord chat. And, I think the iMessage group that I'm in doesn't have notifications, but I do get badge icons. So yeah, so one of them is having those notifications and trying to deal with that. Um, the iMessage group I'm in, most people aren't in my timezone, so what I find is I wake up to a lot of notifications, and there'll be dribs and drabs in the morning, and in the evening, so I don't, I suppose I still get to engage a bit, you know, like in those times, but that one works pretty good for me, because because of that, like, I'll wake up and I can go through the threads and they're normally still awake, 'cause Perth time to America is pretty good, I think, um that it might be yesterday evening. But the Hemispheric Views one, that one's always a bit trickier, like I've turned it off completely. And then I found myself, I just didn't go on there because I had no notifications, I don't have Discord on my home screen. And then, you know, suddenly just go oh, I haven't been on that discord channel for ages! And so I sort of jumped back in and then it's like, do I mute certain channels? Because, say the game channel doesn't necessarily conc-... like, it's not, you know, necessarily my wheelhouse. So, that's a question that I do actually keep going, do, how do I post this on here and say, how do you guys keep on top of this? Especially you guys are the host like, you know, like joining in... I suppose you might feel like you're... need to reply. In some ways, I don't know, if you do, you might think about that yourself. But um, you know, like, at least I don't have to feel like it's it's not my, I don't own it, so I don't have to ever feel like I have to reply to anything unless there's someone tags me but no, that's always really tricky. I love it, though. I love the um, I do get to jump in there and listen to... people obviously like what you're producing, so we must be similar in some way. Martin Feld 25:09 OK. David Brown 27:39 And I suppose that's, that's the cool thing is like, yeah, I get that feeling that it's, you know, like the people that are in there... I suppose that's the difference between that and then when you, I don't know, if you go into but like, when you go on Twitter and, and things like that, you don't know who you're exposing to like, in that regard., I actually had a conversation with another educator recently, because I was saying, I feel like Twitter, I use that a lot and in an education sense, as well as anything that I post, but I like, I engage with other educators, but I always feel like we never have real conversations. I still feel like because you're posting, and anyone can read it, there's a judgement on what you're saying, and you feel more inclined to post less, or filter or not actually be yourself. And we'd actually met up in person, a group of us, and I said that was, that felt like a much more real connection. And I suppose these iMessage groups and Discord channels feel a bit more like that, because you feel like we are all here together for a common purp-..., like we all have got, must have something similar, but you know that not everyone is reading it. I don't know. That's, that's what I was feeling, but also like having you guys in there as the hosts, like maybe we feel like we know you as well, because when you talk in your weekly podcasts, we've got a sense of your personalities. So again, it goes back to I think what I said before is, when you're listening to the show, you feel like you're, you're mates with the, the host, you're friends with them, um even if they don't know who you are. Um so, so even though in your brain, it's sort of going, oh, we're having our, you know, weekly or biweekly catch-up, you know, like, I suppose that's a part of it as well. Maybe that makes sense, I don't know, yeah. Martin Feld 29:28 Yeah, you've actually brought it beautifully full-circle, whether it was inadvertent or not, so that's great! And I really liked what you said about engaging with different groups, whether it's Twitter, or Discord or iMessage, because certainly, and this is your story, not mine, but just to kind of confirm or extend what you were saying, uh there are those differing expectations when you're a producer versus a listener or both, and you're the owner of a space or a kind of willing participant. So, there is that kind of challenge, I think in all these different groups, exactly like you said, to work out, you know do I let the notifications on? Am I expected to speak in this way? Is it an open or a closed group? And, and Discord is, I think you hit on quite well there is um, it's a larger group, maybe than what you have on iMessage but it's not Twitter, so that's a bit of an interesting technological change that we've undergone. And talking about technological change or where things are heading, uh you've spoken really interestingly about your experiences. And as I said, it came full-circle, are there things that you would like to change or that you kind of see in your podcast consumption future? Where do you think things are heading? David Brown 30:36 Ah, that's a, that's a tough question. I actually because I, I suppose I don't really think. Yeah, I don't actually know. I'd just say at the moment, I'm happy. I suppose if someone shares um, another show that they might like, um you know, like in some of the group chats that I've been on, I don't think anyone's shared other podcasts on Hemispheric Views, maybe it's like, just share... scared to share competition. I can't remember maybe they have, but um, I mean, apart from the ones that you guys listen to... Martin Feld 31:09 Oh sure! David Brown 31:10 So yeah, so my podcast future might be just seeing whatever comes my way, but at the moment, I'm not, I'm not actively looking for more, because like, I've got enough at the moment and I think I even culled a couple the other day that you know, that I just don't get to listen to so it's like, you know, you're building up like 10, 20 episodes you haven't, like you've, you've left it there ready, and then you just suddenly go, you know, what? If they're, if I can't even get one of them into my listening queue, then I probably don't need any of it, even though the show might be good, so... David Brown 31:10 ...like that certainly, yeah, yeah, there. Like, if you and it's good to have that definition of why, like if someone says, 'I've, I'm listening to this, and I'm really enjoying it', so well, what are you getting out of it? Like, why am I going to add that to my queue? And I suppose that's, that's the biggest thing and how I can fit that in. And I will listen to the occasional one-off show. If someone says, 'Oh, this is a really good episode', I might listen to it and then decide, you know, like, I will add this there. I suppose I really do, I follow a few at the moment that I do decide if I'm going to listen to by reading the show notes, which um, you guys will attest, you know like, if you're doing a podcast, put some decent show notes in so that at least someone who's trying to decide, 'What, what am I going to get out of this episode?', um can pretty much like skim over it and go, yep, I want to listen to more of that. Yeah, when there's nothing in there, you just like, well, you know, what can I do with that? It'd be like opening a TV guide, which is well, I suppose TV guides were a bit like that, but at least there was something that you could sort of say, 'Well, what does this... what is this about?' So that is helpful, but yeah, I do listen to some that, you know, like, I pick and choose what I'm going to listen to. But there are some that you just go, I know it should be good stuff and I'll keep going. Martin Feld 33:01 Perfect! Now, is there anything that I haven't asked you about, personally about how you listen to podcasts, or maybe something on the way in your story that you would like to discuss? David Brown 33:13 Ah, I suppose the only other thing I could add is, like the hardware or the devices, um... Martin Feld 33:19 Sure. David Brown 33:19 I always feel like there's never a runner's voice in any of these tech podcasts. I don't know, if um, if so many tech people just sit in front of their screens all day... Martin Feld 33:29 Maybe! David Brown 33:29 ...but sometimes I'm listening to shows and I'm going, tell me the runner's perspective! How that works! I suppose one thing is um, I get enjoyment that I can just go for a run with my Apple Watch. And I know that there's not many of us in the world that might do that and like especially seeing as like, Garmin is the biggest, I suppose like, running watch device, like, in the world. Um but even then I'll say to people, 'You know, I won't choose a Garmin because of how difficult it is to get podcasts on there'. Because I don't want to carry my phone when I go for a run, I just want to take my watch, go for a run, headphones. So that's, that's I suppose, a big big thing for me was, is when um, I could sync my podcasts to my watch and just go for a run. And then same with audiobooks—Audible has an app, it's a bit clunky, you have to jump through a few hoops to get your your book on there and it's a, I have to plan two days ahead to try and make sure the book's on there, but at least once it's there I can listen to to the books. So, I appreciate that and I appreciate the tech's, like allowed that up. I mean it's just, it's pretty amazing, the Apple Watch in itself, but yeah. Martin Feld 33:38 OK, that's really interesting, so a greater diversity of activities or voices within tech podcasting, and I'm not going to name names within... David Brown 34:45 Oh yeah! Martin Feld 34:46 ...the Hemispheric Views listenership, but I do know that there are people who run who listen to the shows, so just on you particularly, you've spoken about how much you'd like listening; I mean, if it comes to running or runners' voices, have you ever dabbled in or would you see yourself doing the other side, behind the microphone? David Brown 35:05 Ah, yeah, I definitely um, I think everyone aspires to be a podcast producer. David Brown 35:11 I feel like in every space, um even in education, it's like, you know, lots of tea-..., like lots of, especially in a ed-tech sort of environment, um I think lots of people will launch a podcast. And definitely I've thought about it. Um, I've got a colleague here at work, we talk about TV shows, and we're like, we should make a podcast about this! And even yeah, like you say, like, wouldn't it be great to have someone that, you know, like brought that running perspective into tech a bit and sort of said, you know, like, why, you know why these decisions are a good, you know, but at the same time, it's just like, I always think, you know, like, yeah, you might get three listeners, and you know, one of them's your wife and one of them is your mum, sort of thing. Martin Feld 35:11 Right! Martin Feld 35:53 Supportive listeners, yeah... David Brown 35:55 Yeah! And I think a lot of that is to do with the, I suppose one of the interesting perspectives with podcasts, I think a lot of people already have their queue weighed up. And it is hard to convince other people to listen to something else, I really do feel like podcasting to have, like, this is my, this is, this is what I can fit into a week, and these are the shows that I've found and to break someone's habit and give them something new, I actually think is quite difficult in that podcast space. So, yes, I've thought about it, but I've also thought, is it worth all the effort for you know, a small audience 'cause I know there's a lot of competition out there. So, which I suppose possibly what you went through when you went into Hemispheric Views or whatever—um the thought that is anyone going to be listening? I think BubbleSort's the other show I listen to, that I like... a bit similar to, I don't know if, do you know, BubbleSort? Martin Feld 36:48 I've heard the name, but I haven't experienced it as a listener, no, go on. David Brown 36:51 So there's a few, actually, Scott was on it; he's in our Discord at the moment. I know, he was in there this morning. He (I think) produced it or he was in the show for a bit. David Brown 37:03 And then, like there's John, what's his name? Chidgey? ...from Queensland he and he's got the Engineered Network, so he, he was on it for a long time, but they always joke, you know, like, this is our five listeners out there um, you know, listening and you think, they do put, people put a lot of effort into this and if there's not much of a market, like, you do have to say, yeah, it would be a tough decision to make, yeah. But I definitely yes, I would love to make a podcast just I don't know if my time can fit in. Martin Feld 37:03 Oh, there we go! Martin Feld 37:34 Well, you've very kindly made the time for this one, so we'll consider this the kick-start of a potential future in that. David Brown 37:41 Like I said to you, if you book me in, like if you just say, 'Are you are available at this time?'... Martin Feld 37:45 Yeah, yeah! David Brown 37:46 ...that's far easier than just saying, 'Let me know when you're free', because my job is like, at the moment is I, people come to me with their problems a lot of the time, and I'm trying to help, you know, fit that in. So like, yeah, and even when you booked me in today, I was contacted this morning to pick up a relief lesson and I had to turn it down... David Brown 38:06 ...which is very rare, so um yeah, so even that sort of thing, yeah, cool. Martin Feld 38:06 Oh wow... Martin Feld 38:11 Well, look, I'm very grateful for that, and I'm sorry about the relief lesson, but um, this has been tremendous. David Brown 38:16 Oh no, missing out on a relief lesson is not that bad. Martin Feld 38:18 OK, fair enough! So look, this has been fantastic, um and I'm really appreciative of your time; these things can be difficult to fit in and uh, there you go. It's proven that the calendar event with the time can work very accurately. Is there anything else that you'd like to add before we wrap up? David Brown 38:35 No, I'm good, I think, yeah, I feel like I've answered you; I'm hoping that you're, yeah you're genuinely happy with what I've said, and um yeah, no, it's it has been good to talk, and yeah, have that communication. Still feels a bit weird that I'm talking to you, but um, yeah! I listen to podcasts. You could include it, so I'll make it good. Martin Feld 38:57 Oh, sure, sure! Go! David Brown 38:58 I listen to podcasts at one-and-a-half times. Martin Feld 39:00 Ah, right! That's interesting. Why is that? David Brown 39:03 So I was a bit worried you would sound like you were drunk! Martin Feld 39:08 Do I? You can be honest! David Brown 39:09 No, you actually sound OK! It's 'cause some people I listen to, you know how like, I think Overcast and Castro, you can share clips from shows? Um I'll listen to them and I'm like, oh my God, these people sound like really, really slow right now, um because I'm just used to hearing them talking... like their one-and-a-half speed is the voice in my head that that person always talks in... Martin Feld 39:31 Sure... David Brown 39:31 ...so it's, I'm quite impressed how, yeah, you've, you've, you sound right. Martin Feld 39:37 Well, I'm thrilled to hear that. Thank you so much! And I gather that you may end up listening to this at one-and-a-half times. David Brown 39:43 At one-and-a-half speed! Martin Feld 39:44 Yeah, and that's, that's that sounds better for you? That's more efficient, or just the rate that you prefer? David Brown 39:48 Oh, yeah, it's it's kind of, I think, you know, like um, I think Overcast brought in the um, like the smart speed and things like that... Martin Feld 39:58 Yep... David Brown 39:58 ...and then I just start slowly started going, oh, let's try 1.1, let's try 1.2, and then I think I've set it on one-and-a-half and that just seems to be, my brain can can take the content in, um and for some reason, it sounds normal. Sometimes I've considered: is there a general speed in which people to talk in certain regions in the world, that is a bit slower than maybe what Australians talk? That was... Martin Feld 40:26 Maybe! David Brown 40:26 ...um one thought that's gone through my head. I feel like, sometimes I feel like, I don't know, I think Australians might talk a bit quicker than other people. I don't know! There's research for you! Martin Feld 40:38 You're opening up new avenues for questions! David Brown 40:41 I know! Sorry! I'm going off on a tangent. Martin Feld 40:42 No, no, that's great! No, no, that's perfect. Well, I think this has been great. Um and if there's anything else that you'd like to add, don't hesitate, uh I think you know where to find me, I know where to find you. But you happy to wrap up at this point? David Brown 40:53 Yeah, I am, yep yep. Martin Feld 40:54 No problem, well look, thank you so much for your time, David. It's been really, really interesting and valuable to hear about your listening experience. And also, thank you for your kind comments about the very show that you subscribe to that we happen to be in, so that's great! David Brown 41:10 It's lucky that I like it, isn't it really? Martin Feld 41:13 Absolutely, a great little point! So thank you so much, David. David Brown 41:16 No worries, thank you!