Speaker 1: Welcome to Ignite, an original podcast from Designsensory Intelligence. This is a podcast for business pros like you. From sports and entertainment, to travel and tourism, financial services to economic development, and more, we uncover relevant timely information that will help keep you at the fore of consumer behavior understanding. Our host, Chris Wise, the brains behind Ignite, has been deeply committed to research, insights, and innovation for over 30 years. He knows the right questions to ask and more importantly, what to do with the answers. Get ready for the engaging, in depth conversations with industry leaders that will inspire you to take action and connect with your audience on real human terms. This is Ignite, the spark to light your fire. Chris Wise: Welcome to Ignite, where we have the opportunity to talk with subject matter experts about important and compelling [inaudible 00:00:52] issues. Specifically, we delve into incredible tools and disciplines for audience understanding, identification, behaviors, and ways to engage them at every touchpoint. Today, we are pleased to be joined by Amanda Verhoff, President and Executive Director of the Association of Luxury Suite Directors. Amanda, welcome. Amanda Verhoff: Morning, Chris. Thank you so much for having me, but be very careful using that word expert with me, I am far from it. But at any rate, pleased to join you. Thanks for having me. Chris Wise: So delighted that you're with us. We've known each other for about five years and we've witnessed many changes in the world of premium experiences at the great sports and entertainment venues around the globe. You've been smack in the middle of that, and through your work have been a catalyst for change and accelerated the evolution of the offering. So first tell us about yourself, your background, position responsibilities, how you found your way to ALSD and what your day to day looks like. Amanda Verhoff: Well, first and foremost, I have to commend you and Designsensory for the conversation today and what we're going to talk about. Yes, I work in sports and specifically in premium seating, which I'll tell you about here momentarily. But I think that the conversation we'll have today is far beyond suites and premium and sports venues, frankly. So I'm excited to jump into what happens after this initial question is answered. So to go back and answer your question pointedly, right place, right time is how I came to be at the ALSD. So I was a soccer player, an athlete, in my past life. And after my four years of college, my coach said, "Hey, do you want to stay for a fifth year?" And I said, "Well, is it free?" And he said, "Well, sure." So I stayed for my fifth year. I started my graduate school, stayed, played soccer. And then by, I guess the luck of the draw, my mentor, who I'll probably talk about a little bit later as well, invited me to be the first ever sport management program graduate assistant. And what that did was allow me to teach several classes. One of them being self defense, so watch your back. And secondly, I was able to assist him in the sport management classes, a couple of them. And Bill Dorsey, our founder and chairman, happened to be one of the guest speakers who came in and spoke to a group of, gosh, I forget what class it was, maybe Intro to Sport Management. He came in and spoke and opened my eyes and my world to what premium seating was. And at the end of his talk, he threw up his hands and said, "You know what? I need some interns." Well, I raise my hand and I said, "I'm interested. I don't know what the hell premium seating is, but I'm in." So in addition to my graduate assistant responsibilities, I started driving down to Cincinnati from Dayton a couple days a week, and started putting in conference data and membership data a couple hours a week. That was 16 years ago. Fast forward and I have the great fortune and luck to be still riding his coattails and being the President and Executive Director of the Association of Luxury Suite Directors, which covers the premium seating industry as you know, Chris. And as I'll get into probably later on too. We have several other branches to our ALSD tree that I'll be happy to expand upon, but hopefully that answers your question about who I am. Chris Wise: Absolutely. Kind of funny how opportunities come into our lives and have to pay attention a little bit to get down the road. Amanda Verhoff: My friend, be present is a quote. It's not even a quote, it's frankly two words. But it's funny you say that because I was having dinner with one of our board advisors, our board president from the Green Bay Packers. At the time I was having dinner with her in New York city, we were doing a site visit for our 2010 conference. And this was pre-kids for me, this was 2010. My first was in 2012. And we were talking about having a family and she already had one. And she said to me, Amanda, the one thing when you have kids, the only thing truly that you have to focus on is being present. And I never had heard it just so pointed. That's literally what you have to focus on, and that's about it in your life. If you're present in the things that you are passionate about, or simply the things that you engage and experience, then you'll succeed because if you don't... I didn't start paying attention in my life until about 30 years into my life. And I'm like, geez, I think I missed out on a lot of my life not being present. So I'm glad to hear you echo that philosophy as well. Chris Wise: Boy, I can so relate to that. Yeah. Tell us about specifically the work and mission of ALSD. Amanda Verhoff: For sure. So ALSD was born about the same time that suites were. So at the time Phil Dorsey, who's our founder who I mentioned, produced a lifestyle magazine, and he had this desire to place them into suites where people of affluent lifestyles are. They were frequenting those. And suites at the time were a new product in sports venues. And he got to thinking, well, rather than this lifestyle magazine, maybe suites and premium can become an industry all of its own. Low and behold, it did. So fast forward and suites, and luxury boxes, and executive boxes, whatever they were called back in the day, sky boxes, because they're at the top of the venues, this whole industry was born. And we started with just a few venues. Before my time, obviously this was 32 years ago, we started with very few venues that had premium seats. And this was in the 1990's. Me, I was still a kid back then. But these suites were a growth product in a lot of these professional sports venues, college venues, racing, venues, entertainment venues. And originally it was contractually obligated income. You sell these boxes for 5, 7, 10 years, and you've got that income coming into these venues, year over year. At our core, we are an association and a conference and trade show, serving what is now a huge premium seating industry. Just about every professional venue, college venue, racing venue, have some type of premium. And so for us, we include all the people who sell service and provide for premium seating in all of those venues. So for instance, those are folks like, and I'll go to your region, VP of premium at the Tennessee Titans or the manager of premium services at the Predators. The list goes on, and we've grown to include just about every professional sports team, as well as a lot of other large venues. And for those that don't know, an association really is rooted in providing a community and a platform and educational network for us, for those premium seating professionals. And we're also positioned to link vendors, suppliers, and the food and beverage concessionaires with the teams and the venues. You can't operate a venue in a suite or a loge box or anything like that without the proper sharing and technology and carpeting and amenities. So again, we are the voice of the teams, as well as the vendor suppliers and food and beverage providers. And the important thing about ALSD as well, our core has been and will always be, premium. We are now what I will call ALSD evolved, and we've evolved for several reasons. And I'll get into those momentarily, but I'll add that we have now several other tracks besides premium, we've got a design and build forum. We have a technology symposium. And there's several other areas that are gaining momentum. And why we did that is we feel that the venue experience and operation is all connected. We cannot operate in silos in our sports venues any longer. Technology, design, sustainability, it all impacts the other side of each other's industries if you will. You can't operate a venue without all of those silos being broken down. So again, at our core, we cover premium. But our other branches of the ALSD are producing what we hope to be a very comprehensive and fruitful educational platform. And what we do each year besides our membership 365 platform, is we organize a large conference and trade show. And we do which city essentially has the newest, shiniest toy. Toys, some of the time. So we just hosted in New York city this past year. And what we do in the evening is we tour those new shiny sports venues. Because if I, let's say I work with the Dayton Dragons or the Cincinnati Reds, now I'm in my region. Well, I work there almost 365 days a year, it would be incumbent on me to get out and see other venues, see what those new bells and whistles are in those other venues, so that I can take those best practices and those physical amenities back to my own venue. So again, in New York city this year, the New York Islanders building was brand new. And then we also saw the Barclays center, which is a 10 year old building, but sure as hell is reinvented with some incredible new premium areas and amenities never seen before. And then we took our folks to the USTA, the national tennis center, to see some really unique premium amenities as well. So again, we tour in whichever city and hold our conference in whichever city we can give our attendees and our association the best opportunity to see what the state-of-the-art amenities and experiences are in sports venues. Chris Wise: Yeah. And these experiences for me have been just amazing, just to see the different offerings having joined you in New York recently, it was just amazing. Especially that very shiny new toy for the New York Islanders. That was a incredible experience. Shifting a little bit, we do a great deal of research with the American sports fan, including our commitment to furthering the discipline of enlightened marketing, which captures true inclusivity. And you're extremely supportive of that cultural shift as social empathy grows. What do you see happening with venues and organizations as it relates to the whole of diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility? Amanda Verhoff: Well, I'll tell you what you already know is that sports stands on such a powerful platform. Very few, if any industries, receive as much attention and notoriety, media, social media, attention as sports. And as such with so many eyes on it, it's incumbent on sports to lead society. Players and the coaches, those that have significant media and social followings, they tend to be the biggest, most recognizable, noticed voices. But I would say that the business side of sports can truly create the culture that has the capacity to impact and amplify those big voices. Meaning those athletes, those coaches, they all work for an association whose culture should be what they're amplifying. And as part of their personal missions. That's not always the case, some speak out on their own platforms and things. But I do think that the business side has such an impact on those big voices. And so one of the things that, and maybe this is personally an aside, but I'll lean on one of my mentors, the one who I worked with at University of Dayton in the support management program, and I'll lean on his advice to me. And he said, pardon of my language, but he said, "Write down what you give a shit about." What did that mean? So individuals should do this, as should organizations. What do we care about? Is it DE&I and accessibility? Is it sustainability? Is it women's rights? What is it that we give a shit about? Is it food? I'll give an example momentarily with food being a big part of my life and what I did about that. But again, focus on what you give a shit about. Do you know someone that was affected by cancer? Are you passionate about rights for the LGBTQ+ community? What movement moves you and what can you do about it? And again, we as individuals and we as organizations and cultures should be asking that question always so that we can then get behind it. And it's a big lift, a heavy lift, if you will, to get behind something that is as big as what you're studying. But I'll give a really simple example here that I'm really proud to share. Food is a big part of my life. I love to cook. I love to break bread with family and friends. And so I got to thinking recently, what can I do with that passion that could lead to something good? And so I started looking at food drives through a local food bank here in Dayton and organized one through my kids' soccer camp. Okay, that's simple. There's four teams with, I don't know, 100 kids total. Well, the turnout was incredible. We had bins for a food drive. And again, the amount of food that was donated, first, was awesome. Hard to carry. It's really hard to get some big bins out of a soccer venue if you've ever done so. But what I found out is, you can create a tribe of others who care about that too, by simply putting yourself out there. I met a family, a couple who had adopted several children, but at the time that they were adopted were malnourished. Okay, sad story. Well, the silver lining is this family donated at this food drive more food than the entire group combined, they themselves. These kids took their own money personally and bought food to donate to this cause. They basically filled three bins with their own money. And these are young kids, these are 10 year olds, eight year olds, six year olds. And it was incredible to see that. And it's so admirable. And again, it added to that tribe of people who also care about what you care about. It's organic growth for good. You put yourself out there, you do something that seems so small, yet it's so big. Your niche, what you care about, your passion, can be so big. And so I think it's just starting, it's just starting. Start. Write it down, what you give a shit about, and then do something. And trust me, it'll grow into something bigger. Chris Wise: That's incredible. Wow. You're right. And the dialogue, or even experiencing and watching people's eyes open a bit. Again, sometimes in a small way, sometimes one of those oh, wow moments. And I like that, know what you give a shit about. It's raw, but it's right to the point. Amanda Verhoff: It's raw but it's right... God, that's the perfect way to put it. I heard something the other day. What was it? I don't want to be everyone's cup of tea, but I do want to be the right people's cup of bourbon, or something like that. So yes, if you don't like that language, maybe tweak it to what it is you like, but at any rate. Chris Wise: Yeah. We're going to go with that. What would you really like to see happening going forward? Amanda Verhoff: I thought about this one. And I don't know if I'll put myself on the right side of any arguments here, but what I'd like to see is for no one to ever say to anyone in our industry again, shut up and dribble. Okay. We all know that a couple years ago that was said. I feel that it's right to speak up and speak out. The only caveat I would put to that is to do so only when you're informed. Ignorance, I think has no part in speaking out. If you don't know about it, you shouldn't be speaking about it. That's the caveat. Being informed can come from more than a book though, from personal experience, it can come from listening. And that's actually where I stand on several social issues. I know what I don't know. And so rather than speaking out frequently, I shut up. I'm in listening mode until I can generate my own informed beliefs on an issue with the backing of either information or experience. So I think that, again, what I would like to see is for us to attack these challenges. And I think that again, you have to start small. I think to inform yourself, you may think, okay, I'll inform myself, but then how do I start? If I care about something, if I inform myself on a passion. Well then what? What do I do? That's the whole challenge's. There's these big issues. DE&I, sustainability, all these other issues. There so big and it's a heavy lift. So start by asking questions. So who's the expert? Or who's a knowledgeable source about something that you care about? Chris, you at Designsensory, that's a call I would make. Uma, for instance, another one leading a minority group. Ask those who know about accessibility issues. What do they want, what are the right resources that they can help us look to? If we care about accessibility. You gave some incredible statistics to me as we were prepping for the ALSC conference. I didn't know. And I don't want to steal your thunder, so what's the stat? How many people have accessibility concerns in this world that we may not know about? What's that statistic? Chris Wise: Well, as far as people that have issues where it directly affects them, it's as much as 26% of the population. And beyond that people that are from a social empathy standpoint, our society is paying attention. And it's truly now somewhere between 60 and 75% of the total population that their eyes are opening. Their hearts are opening. Their minds are opening. But it still takes a whole lot of work. So it's just thinking of that 26%. I think I also used a statistic, and it's probably one of my favorite ones that, not to pick on the NFL but I will, that they have 32 teams that operate in 30 DMA's. And within those 30 DMA's, the avid NFL fan that is disabled could fill each of those, on average, those team stadiums, 11 times. That's all of their home season games plus about three post season if they're fortunate enough to get into post season. Those are avid NFL fans, it's not the whole disabled community. That's powerful. And we talk about 26%. So there are four of us here, at least one of us has a disability. And we just need to recognize that. And just respect that, is the biggest thing is what we're learning. Amanda Verhoff: And understand it. Again, that's a statistic that I wasn't aware of until I met you. And so again, it's turning to the experts to help us understand what it is we're passionate about. I'll also say that if you're not in a leadership position yet, like coordinator level, manager level in premium seating, you think that your voice is small when you're not in those leadership roles. Well, it's not. The younger generation, younger than me, I'm a top end millennial, but the younger generation is proving to be one of our most informed and outspoken generations. So even if you're not a leader yet, get informed and voice your opinion. And if you are a leader, the second side of that is look at that next generation. They stand for causes and they want to help. So in interviews, you're bringing somebody in at that coordinator level, manager level, ask what causes they believe in, and then have them champion that at your organization. They might end up having the most energy, the most potential resources to make the biggest impact. And so I think it starts at the top end at the bottom for those that have the passion and those that can influence those that have the passion. Again, I think that if you look at a lot of rallies or causes or things like that, you see that younger generation really getting behind it. And that's what's so, I don't know, encouraging about moving forward. Our generation isn't just a bunch of snowflakes, we're on social media, sure, all the time, but maybe we're on there learning about stuff. Maybe we're out there getting informed, not just pecking on our phones on TikTok and Snapchat and all that stuff. I want to also point out something that you mentioned before too, and this is accessibility specifically. You pointed out that it's socially and financially prudent to shift, to do what's best for all audiences. You just said it yourself, 26% of that population could fill a stadium. So we need our venues to open up to all demographics. Welcome those with accessibility concerns, [inaudible 00:19:05] prudent. I learned from you that can also happen on the marketing and sales side of our experiences, on our websites, on our social media. There's a shortcoming in a lot of cases, I won't pick on our industry, but in every industry that we aren't focusing on those with accessibility concerns on our own marketing campaigns. So I think it's as simple as that, to focus on that. So we also say that moreover align from one of your fellow panelists, Tracy Stuckrath from thrive! meeting and events. She said it best when we were planning for the panel, she said, our experiences in our venues need to appeal... And again, I might be butchering this, but something along the lines of, we need to appeal to the minority, so that we can serve the majority. And I thought that was so cool. Design for that 26%, and at the end of the day, you're probably going to serve 100. So I thought that was so cool. And look up Tracy Stuckrath too, one of your now counterparts with thrive! meeting and events, she has a podcast as well. She's done I think 150 interviews, and she's absolutely incredible. And her example of designing for the minority leads to me, something I noticed at the Cavs game the other day at Rocket Mortgage Field House. I was with my kids and my husband, and I noticed lower countertops at the bars. I was like, yes, that's exactly what we're talking about here. And lo and behold, it wasn't just for those that needed lower countertops necessarily, but I put my food on it and my kids put their food on it because their heads weren't all the way up to that bar level. And they were able to put their food on it. So even though my kids don't have accessibility issues at this time, they were able to profit from, for lack of a better word, from those lower countertops. So there's like this big snowball effect too, and it's not only leaning on accessibility, DEI experts, but think about in our industry, it's architects and designers of sports venues. So I'm going to cut it there because I'm getting long winded, but this is just to say that there's a snowball effect. That all these different people and constituents care about these issues and can influence it from the design, to the marketing, to the operation of these venues, if we just lean in. Chris Wise: Yep. And what we do is all about listening to the people that are impacted as we gather information. We're talking to everyone. It really is important. And the fact that you say that making that change... The change doesn't have a negative impact on those that don't have an issue, you're right. It just makes it, if you pay attention and make the changes, it just makes it right for everyone. It makes total sense. Tell me about key milestones in your career that are influencing how you personally view sports entertainment venue offerings today. Amanda Verhoff: Yeah. They're not milestones, but there's two things, I guess I'll say. They're experiences. One, if I'm being frank, being a woman. Women are still in the minority in leadership roles in sports. Now that might be natural in a way. And what I mean by that it's still men, mostly, the bigger sports that are getting the most notice that are on the field and the court. So it may seem natural for men to also lead these organizations. But by and large, sports are just businesses who are poised for financial and social successes that we talked about earlier. So shouldn't gender be agnostic to who leads them? I would think so. So I don't know that it should be any longer, men in those leadership roles. So I think we will see a shift and I think we already have seen a shift in leadership roles, in sports organizations and businesses, more than ever coming up here in the future. And I think that more than that too, it's certain movements. Whether it's diversity or inclusivity or accessibility or women in leadership. Whatever it is, there are still, and pardon me if for using a word that I don't mean literally, but we're still in a fight for equality, for balance, for equity. And I would love there to come a day when there is not that fight for that balance, for that equity, for that inclusion. I would love for there not to be social issues anymore, but we aren't there yet. And so there is still, whatever fight that you feel is in you, to still get everyone to that level playing field. It might be pie in the sky. I don't know, but I think that we all must focus on equity and equality. And again, it's doing simple things. It's listening to Dionna Widder's Women's Blazers podcast, another great one. She interviews incredible female leaders in sports. Lean into stuff like that. The second one that I'll say for me, very personal, is mental health. And I think that, again, that's not a milestone by any means, that's an experience. I've dealt with anxiety for years, and it is under control with the help of medication. And I'm not shy about admitting that and talking about it. We all fight our own battles and to find that sense of control, that sense of balance is key to harmony in our lives. Well, in sports, that's a big topic right now. I don't, but those that work for teams and venues, they're working nights, they're working weekends, they're working holidays. And then, oh, guess what? They got to be at the office the next day at 8:00 AM, 10:00 AM, whatever its. They don't work normal hours. It's a lot. And so a passion of mine is also understanding how we can aid and assist those that work for sports organizations to achieve that harmony. Is it giving people a flexible work schedule in sports? Is it, Hey, if you have a game till 12:00 AM, the next day don't come in until 1:00 the next day. Is it allowing them to go to doctor's appointments or kids' appointments without a turn of the head or taking any time off or anything like that. Mental health is the other one that I'm strongly behind. And again, a battle that we're all fighting probably in our own ways, especially coming out of COVID and what we discovered about ourselves. Chris Wise: Yeah. Thanks for that. As you look to 2023 and beyond, what do you feel will happen in relation to societal empathy in relation to inclusion, diversity, equity, and accessibility in the physical space and marketing space for premium offerings? What are the challenges, fears, joys? Amanda Verhoff: The fears I think are less now than what the enthusiasm is behind it. I think we are all leaning into that. And again, it could be for our own social or financial prudencey. Whatever it is, people are getting behind it. and that's what's so exciting is that I think we are seeing a, I don't know, a turning of the tides if you will. People are leaning into these social issues because they impact everyone in some way. So I'm going to keep this answer short. I see things coming in the future and I think that there are so many resources and groups and podcasts like you're doing right now that can show us the way and the path to an inclusive future. I don't have all the answers for how our venues get there, but I'm already seeing it. I'm already seeing that from soup to nuts, architecturally in the owners reps and the team, everybody is leaning into how do we make our venues inclusive and accessible. And again, it might be to get more butts in the seats and stands, but that's fine. They're running a business too. It might be for social issues, whatever it is. But Chris, we're all leaning into it. And so I'll cut my answer there because I'm just very, very encouraged about where we're going with all of our efforts. Chris Wise: No, that's good. We are as well because we believe that we see... Again, you spoke to the younger audiences and certainly they are cause driven, thank heavens. And that they will serve to force change that will be for the good of society. One last question, how about a look into the crystal ball of your career? What may the future hold for you? Amanda Verhoff: I wish I knew, man. I told you happenstance got me to where I am. So will happenstance get me to where I will be with that crystal ball? This is the worst answer to end on because I don't know, to be honest. I'd love to continue what I'm doing and continue working with people like you to push forward all of these causes that we care about. What I'd like to see myself do is, take this for what it's worth, work a little less and engage in my passions that can help those social issues that I care about more. And that's taking time off to volunteer at a food bank, that is taking time off to get into my kids' education and see what they're informed about. Because as you and I both know, that next generation is going to shape our world quite literally. I mean, global warming and all of that, behind what our next generation is doing. And so again, I will do my best to lead the premium seating industry, but I just think that there are so many that are bigger than what I do that can make our world a better place. Chris Wise: Thank you. Amanda, thanks for joining us today, I'm really looking forward... I've enjoyed the last five years of our relationship and look forward to what the future may hold and the opportunities that are ahead of us. Amanda Verhoff: You're the best. I can't thank you enough for making this a reality, pushing the issues that we both care about, getting them into the spotlight. So really appreciate everything you're doing Chris. And it was an honor. Thank you so much for having me. Chris Wise: And thank you all for listening to Ignite podcast from Designsensory Intelligence. If you want to know more about the various ways we gain intelligence about audiences and turn that intelligence into solid marketing solutions and have to understand the position your organization holds in the minds and hearts of all people, just send a note to me, Chris Wise. Until next time, stay wise. Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Ignite, a podcast from Designsensory Intelligence. If you want to learn more head to designsensoryintel.com. Until next time, continue your pursuit of quenching your unending thirst for intelligent understanding of human consuming behavior.