s2e7 James: [00:00:00] All right. Welcome back everyone. To the final end game that guests are can only be one end game of coffee house blunders. The Queen's gambit breakdown as always. I am James and Monson Magno chess expert, as Danny wants told me on the internet. So it makes it official. Um, and as always one of my best friends in the entire world, international chess master and chief chess, officer of chess.com, Danny wrench, Danny, how's it Danny: [00:00:35] going? Oh man, it is going great. And once again, an incredible, incredible intro by the guy that is the voice of the voice and the host of this show. And Batman by night, I will say. Once you say on the internet it's official. So you are a chess expert and you delivered yet again here in our prep for this final episode, but, um, dude, you already know I'm pumped. I won't repeat things. I set off her until it's appropriate to say them on air now that we're recording, but I will just say that I binged. Yet again, last night, episode six and seven. Cause I wanted to watch episode seven, but Shauna had not seen episode six. So that means I've watched episodes six and seven. Again, I have now seen episode six, four times, which as good as that episode is I'm I'm, I'm good. Now I've now seen it enough times, but I am super pumped to talk about episode seven, but you're done. James: [00:01:21] You're Danny: [00:01:21] done. You're done. And I'm not doing it in a bad way. It honestly, again, like made me appreciate. Everything I said in last week's episode. So I won't say it again, but just, you know, the, the, you know, on your Taylor joys, you know, just her, like the way she did Jess. And actually my wife taught me something about episode six that I didn't know. Cause I was saying like, Hey look when she does this, like, that's a little awkward, but like, look how, like how confident and smooth, like she, she really became a real chess player. And Shawna said, which I didn't know on your tailor Joy's background is actually as a dancer even before her acting career blew up. And that the way she approached her prep for the Queen's gambit as an actress, was she treated every chess game. Like it was a choreographed dancing. So what she did was. Memorize all of the moves, not even so much as like the chess, right. But just literally from like how she was going to play the moves, how she was going to play the pieces and the way her body language was going to be at the board. I didn't know that. So Shauna told me that, that she, because of her background in dance, um, that's the, the approach she took to all of the chess scenes, treating them. Like they were a choreographed kind of dance segment from start to finish. So, interesting James: [00:02:27] fact. Oh, wow. That's awesome. Yeah, I did not. Did not know that. Yeah. I was informed as well as some, some facts that we missed by my wife. Wife's. You know, just this, I just told Heather, I said, you should just do the podcast, Sean. I don't know why we're doing Danny: [00:02:40] what we're doing James: [00:02:41] this. Um, but we opened up on a flashback, uh, as we do on every episode of the Queen's gamut, basically not, not to mention that it's it's, we do get flashbacks of best pass in a very beginning of the very first episode, we should get a flashback to Paris. So, you know, they kind of continue this trend. Now, now this gives us a lot more insight into. Beth, uh, and Alice, uh, her mom or herself, Alice driving to best dad's house, or he is remarried with children attempting to give back, uh, Beth. And, you know, as they drive away and, um, her dad says, no, get outta here. Why don't you bring her here? You know, you know, Beth ass, who was that? What was that? And she goes, this is where Heather's fax comes in. She goes, Oh, that was a mistake, a rounding error. And that rounding error is an important, important part because why would you say rounding air? Right. Well, actually what we missed out on and didn't mention, and maybe, you know, already, but apparently Alice. She was either a math teacher or a mathematician because she actually wrote a book that I believe in episode one was like laid on the ground and had her name on it. And I completely miss that fact. And that's where we had a whole conversation about we weren't sure about Beth's dad at all. Um, But where maybe she got some of this analytical mathematician, like smarts for, for the chest. We talked about math quite a bit in the beginning and how good she was at it in the classroom. But that was some of the background there Danny: [00:04:06] that I totally got it. Well, first of all, that's awesome. And thank you to Heather. And I actually screwed that up cause I, I either misread something or misinterpret something. I thought the father was like the mathematician. Or remember I was saying that the only thing that, like, I think she got math from like her dad or, or something, but actually that makes total sense. And it also was more, more in line, I guess, with that dynamic between. That's his genius and her trauma. Right. Which really is pretty much all directly related to her mother. Right. And, and she inherited, you know, her mother's incredible genius and flashing forward to this episode, which we'll back up, but we already know like her and Jolene visit, you know, This, this place where she grew up in this trailer, like on a river, despite mentioning in that scene, that her mother came from money and married money. Right. So what happened? Right? Well, clearly her genius kind of light drove her mad in some ways, right. In any way. That is, that is super interesting and good. Um, good heads up that, that whole scene in the car. Like it's, I'm glad I saw it for the last time last night. It's just so traumatizing and it, and it never gives you. Completion, like, even in the end where like, you know, what's coming with the car wreck, like the last thing that is said, and I believe this is the last time we see Alice in the entire series of season one is she says, you know, now I got to figure out what to do. And, and Beth is like with what? And she's like with you, right? Yeah. And it's just, it's just sad, just like your heart goes out and you just realize, you know, just the pain that this character has been dealing with in the entire. In the entire show. James: [00:05:34] So, yeah, and it is a series of end games. Um, you know, this is pretty much the most literal name of the episode for every opening. There is an end game. Um, as we like to say here on coffee house blunders, it's the first time we've said it. Um, but you know, we, we see Danny: [00:05:48] an end game, first of all, eat your heart out. Mirabelle. We just, you just crushed with every opening. There is an end game that's better than anything. Dr. Strange said, what did he say? He's like, we're in the end game now. Like whatever that Nicole, James Monta magnet, that's James: [00:06:03] what I do. I've been, I've been, I've been sitting on that for a few days. So, um, yeah, you know, we, we, we see the, the end game of Alice. And her dad who, you know, basically just leave, you know, doesn't want to take her back. We see the end game of Alice and Beth. We see obviously the bigger end game of Bhargava as we get to later on, but we, you know, get to our first end game a second end game, I guess would be, uh, Mr. Scheibel because Jolene is back and she showed up at the end of episode six and she didn't come there just to party. She came there because, um, Mr. Scheibel has passed and she wanted to. You know, inform Beth of this. And, you know, through this experience, you know, Beth has sort of a hot mess still at this point and she has. For all intents, just really kind of given up on, on everything. And she doesn't even know if she's gonna go to Moscow. She doesn't know if she's going to go play the Soviets and Jolene kind of, you know, brings her back. And through this tragedy of Mr. Scheibel passing, um, re reconnects the two of them and for the better. Danny: [00:07:11] I mean, totally. And to break down some of the specific moments that happened there as you kind of, yeah. I mean, that's the summary Jolene shows up and kind of saves the day and I think it starts when. You know, Sam episode ended with her at the door, then they're, they're both kind of going to bed and it's, it's almost like it's reminiscent of when they were together. Right. In the, in the Catholic Christian, you know, orphanage, they grew up in right. And, and Beth is like, God, I got to stop the pills. Just I'm bringing. And Jolene's like, yeah, you think? Right. Kind of thing. Right. And then Jolene kind of like reveals that indeed she did steal the modern chess openings book. Right. Gives Beth back the book that she took because she was. Jealous that she got adopted. Right. And, uh, and then the scene in the car, like really left a Mark for me, because like, It was that moment where Jolene is kind of sharing where she's at, she's a paralegal, right? She's at this, she's at this law office and she's trying to work her way up and, and, and says, you know, I'm trying to get what you have kind of thing to Beth and, and all these things for her. And Beth is like looking at her and she's like, you know, you just don't, you just don't know, like, you know, or appreciate like, you know, basically, you know, what you represent or what you have and, and your talent and all that stuff. And I think that there's a lot of people that have said this to Beth over the entire like, series, right. Uh, in different ways, whether it's like. The admiration she's gotten from her, from her male peers, like the Celtics and, and, and Benny, right. Or there's the, you know, just people that, you know, there's even, I'm sorry, I'm blanking on the name, but the girl in episode six, who, who kind of comes and says, she's, pre-med the first girl she beat, uh, anyway, um, that, that, that young woman. Right. But I think coming from Jolene, it's like a bit of a wake up call because it was like a. Hey, we come from the same place and you don't have like the self pity card over me kind of thing. And sometimes that could just be super powerful where, because like literally anybody in life can, can wallow and focus on what's, you know, on their, their negative story. Or they can make a choice and focus on, on basically what's in front of them and find some sort of empowerment from what they've been through. And when you, when you talk to a peer who like. Kind of like, you don't have it over in terms of like your self pity story of the pain you've been through. I think sometimes that can be really impactful because it's not with like a lack of empathy that Jolene kind of calls her out. She understands what she's been through, but it's kind of like, Hey, but what are you going to do about it? Right. And I feel like the whole episode is just the tone that's set. There is super powerful and. And then we're on this journey where they, you know, they go back to the house and they're, they're there to see, um, you know, are there to attend Mr. Tribal's funeral. Yeah. James: [00:09:39] I love the conversation. You know, that, that night before and the car ride, I think you're right. It's sort of. Opening up best eyes to, Hey, you don't know how good you have it, you know? And in fact, right, like there's, there's, you know, not that, not that about didn't have to work at chess, but she was very naturally gifted, gifted on this. And there's a very funny quote that Beth says to Jolene, as Jolene is describing that she was in physical education. Then she was like interested in history. Now she is doing poly psy. She was going to go to law school and, you know, teach people. And Beth goes, I didn't know that it could be a career choice, um, Danny: [00:10:18] and or kissed, or what does she say? She's going to be a radical around radical. James: [00:10:23] And she goes, Oh, I didn't think that could be a career choice. And that's literally what Mrs. Scheibel said to Beth about being a chess player. Danny: [00:10:31] Ah, yeah, I didn't catch that. James: [00:10:34] Yeah. Like, like she didn't know, like it was very similar phrase basically. So in that situation, it was fascinating because there obviously is a lot of, uh, Mrs. Wheatley. I mean, Mrs. Wheatley in. In bath, obviously. And I remember like AF when Beth went to go play her very first games, she's like, Oh, I didn't know. That could be, you know, that, that could be a career choice. So that was something that you could do. Right. And that there was money in this and right. And then there's kind of this Beth kind of saying it there, and then the car ride happens. And I think that that sort of opens her eyes up a little bit more like, Oh, like you can do this. And this is a thing, and this, you know, is, is good, but yeah, you're right then. They go back to the house and I wrote down exactly what you said, which was, I am still fascinated. Like, what was, I want to Alice spinoff? Danny: [00:11:19] Well, you know, and, and also it's, it's, it's as much as we obviously in the chess world, you know, to. To go back to business real quick. Clearly the whole Chester role has benefited from the Queen's gambit boost, right? And it's been it's reignited interest of those who forgot they had it. And of course brought new people in, but we've, uh, the Nat, the discussion naturally happens like, Hey, I wonder if they're going to do a sequel. Right. And people like, no, the whole thing is based on the book. There's no SQL at whatever. And I think it was our chief of products. And I'll give you 13 reasons why there could be a SQL, right. And of course, 13 reasons why was literally talk about a show that was supposed to be one season and from start to finish. Had it had a beginning and an end, right. It's literally based on, unfortunately, you know, a suicide right. Of a main character and they turned it into what, four or five seasons. And, and I, no one really cares about, I forget like the, the interest of chess and why it might be really cool if this became a long running thing for the, for the growth of chefs. But regardless of that, there are some things they do that potentially plant the seed like Alice's storyline because they, they don't even bring conclusion. Right. They say like, Hey, she came from money. She married money. And then like, Jolene's like what happened? And I believe Beth is like, well, it's complicated. Right. And that's kind of it. And so you're a hundred percent, right. I was like, man, like, I want to know what happened there. How did we get here? James: [00:12:39] Yeah. Yeah. There's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of, you know, missing elements in this story. Art, even though we do learn so much more and we get to some end games, sometimes we don't know how we get there, you know, that's life. Danny: [00:12:52] Oh man. I want, and this is good. I want to do a running bet with me and you like me? Meow. Like how many times can you naturally fit and came into your daily life? And if you like, whatever the bounty is, I will pay it. Okay. So good. Sorry, go James: [00:13:09] ahead. Well, as we know, uh, Mr. Scheibel has played his final move and the game is here. At the funeral and they're sitting there and this is kind of a sad, seen it. It's sort of, I think every, I dunno everyone, at least to me, I've thought about this. Like is what if I die? Like, who's going to show up at my funeral. Right? I mean, I'm going to be cremated, but you know, it's like, you know, who's, who's going to be there and no, one's there from the home. And like, they're, they're sitting there. No, one's crying, they're pointing it out. And they say, you know, it looks like they're all are best as it looks like they're ready to go to the bank and cash in or whatever Mr. Scheibel has. I don't know. That's a super sad scene. Um, yeah. And, um, after that they go back to the home. So they kind of went to the home. They didn't want to go in, and then they went to the funeral, they go back to the home and best like, I want to go, it's go time. And this is, I mean, just to me, this is a super emotional scene. I played it back a few times, you know, Beth's walks down into the, you know, we find out that a lot has happened in the house. Right. Um, some of the people are gone, Danny: [00:14:11] the lady broke her hip. Right. Yeah. Um, but she's still around kinda old and ornery. Yeah. James: [00:14:17] Yeah. Super. Yeah, worse almost now. Um, And then yeah, she goes down into where she goes down into the basement where it all started. She sat, sits at the table, she kind of takes it all in and then she sees this beautiful, um, you know, memory board or whatever, this like all these paper clippings of, of Beth's journey. Danny: [00:14:37] Yeah. Wow. It's, it's, it's a super, I mean, I got emotional right there, you know, we're like you realize like, you know, obviously Mr. Scheibel was the closest thing she ever had to a father. Right. And he. Followed every bit of her life. Right. And then she finds this picture of what he, where he looks kind of like, just it's so funny though. He looks like almost shocked, but that someone's taking a picture in the photo, which I loved, and that you've got Beth behind him with like her hand on his shoulder. Like, and like Andy referenced, it was a very awkward relationship, but also like a super intimate one. And, uh, And then it's like, you finally get the release. Like she finally like breaks down, right. Like in kind of cries and you know, obviously she's mourning the loss of Mr. Scheibel, but it's like so much more than that. Right. I mean, especially the way they, they, they set the tone with the fact that she didn't have a dad and, and the way her mother and father handled her. And, and then, uh, you know, for her to really just like finally like more than a little bit, instead of like, You know, suppressing, which is like literally what the character has done the entire series, right? Like now she's like breaking down and like acknowledging, you know, that she's just sad. Right? And then you got Jolene there. So comforting her. Yeah. James: [00:15:50] There's always real moves leading up to the end game. And that's what we see. Um, you know, we, we Danny: [00:15:56] get up to the top of here by the way, this is a great morning. You and I have not recorded many of the shows this season in the morning, which I know it's coffee house blunder. So I want to share real quick that I drank this coffee. Blue bottle, um, out of my December coffee dripper by forgotten for me by my bestie here, James Martin Magno. And so today I am drinking, I'm drinking some good blue bottle from Ethiopia, and I forget exactly the farm, but I love the blue bottles come with the breakdown, the story of where this coffee came from. Anyway, totally digressing into old school, coffee, house blenders, but really enjoying this cup of Joe. As we, as we make our final moves and transition from the middle. To the end game. I'm gonna let you do it. I it's awkward, right? It is. It is it, James: [00:16:38] it, it just doesn't work. Does it? No, I'm just kidding. Um, I will say that. Yeah, I also, the reason I was 15 minutes late is I needed to, to make some coffee. I needed to get into the mindset, um, here, because we see, um, a little crusade coming to an end game because the Christian crusade no longer in best life, we are back. And your best got to get to. Moscow like that is sort of this, Danny: [00:17:00] there's a whole breakdown that happens with the Christian crusade. Right? We should probably, I mean, cause I talked about how, like the parallel again to Bobby Fischer was that he would turn away sponsors and, and I can't, I. I, I couldn't remember if there was like literally a direct reference to like a Christian crusade and obviously, you know, uh, communism being directly associated with atheism and, and Marxist, uh, you know, the, the whole, the whole thing. Right. But there's that scene where like, because remember they paid her way to San Francisco. Yeah. And, and that was already too late. Right. She did that. And when, and now she's in a spot where they're like telling her the things she needs to say on their behalf, and she's like, I'm not going to say this crap. Right. And yeah. And then she has to give them back the money, which is a huge thing, because that whole process is like, she's having these conversations with Benny on the phone, and you're kind of proud of Beth for doing this, like doing what's right. But also like you can see that, you know, Benny who just wants nothing, but her chest success is also super frustrated with how they got here. And, you know, just that whole dynamic, I think is important, especially because of where we know the episode ends with ultimately. You know, th th the band gets back together. Right. But I think that the, the road, they had to go through with like death. Crying and mourning and then having integrity and giving this money down. But then like also, just because you do that in life doesn't mean everything's happy again, like she still had to feel the consequences of her actions and like, she pretty much almost ruined her relationship with Benny. Right. Not just like, as like, you know, lovers, but also just as a friend. Right. He was like, so I think that there's that scene where like he hangs up on her, like where she's sitting on the staircase talking, it was like, It was like, like she needed to like find her own way again. And, and she ends up relying on Jolene because you realize like, even though she's kind of. Backgrounded and doing the right things. Now she's made like a ton of mistakes because of her, because of her substance abuse. You know, James: [00:18:52] there were definitely some blunders leading up to this point. I think, I think that, uh, you know, I, I do love that the scene of the creature Christmas, because you're right. You know, she stood her, her moral high ground and said, you know, I, I'm not going to do that. And it's going to cost her. Right. Because they had already invested significant money. And she's like, I'll just, well, whatever, I'll just pay you all back. Right. And we know that Beth obviously has some money, but as we find out, it's not that much, I'm leaving you back. She goes, she bought the house, she updated the house. She tells Benny that she's been, you know, keeping the house, uh, updated. And you know, it's a great scene because I do sort of feel like, Hey, if you don't want to be a pawn in someone else's structure, That thing, is that a good thing, right? You don't want to be on that e-file and then all of a sudden, boom. Um, I dunno what happens anyways. Anyways, what I'm saying is you don't want to be someone else's pawn, right. And that's sort of how this was going down and. You know, best, like, no, I'm not going to do that. And I do love the bed. She calls Ben and Ben he's like, I don't got the money. What do you mean? You got to go get the money. He's like, I've got the money, right? Whether he has the money or not, we don't know. Right. She does call him out for maybe gambling on all way. So, you know, that's not, that's not a good look. And, um, and he's like call the state department or the chess Federation, whatever he's pissed. He hangs up on her and done. Right. And, uh, and that, that was, that was awesome. And, and, uh, luckily. That wasn't the end of that relationship. Um, but it was close. I mean, you, you, I guess, you know, you, there's only so many, um, straws before you break break. Right. And, um, and Benny was, was pissed multiple times. Right? I think that, you know, when, when she left New York, he thought that she was going to come back. They, he thought he thought that they had something and they didn't. So there's anyway, that happens. Uh, uh, so. I mean, I like that she did this and it made this move. I don't necessarily like that. She, you know, pissed off Benny so much, but luckily Benny's Benny and he just really wants it. He's here for the chest. Let's just be here. Danny: [00:21:00] He's here. I mean, he's here for the chest. I had, I watched the episode six, you know, the, uh, the sex scene. Right. And where he immediately starts talking about Jessica. My wife thought that was funny and like the, uh, but anyway, so yeah, we already know where Benny's head is at, you know, Benny's head is in the chest and, uh, so. But I, so we're where are we at? Where are we at? We're so we're so she's, she's kind of on her own she's, you know, we're, we're going through a ton of stuff we're reliving the past, but this time in a healthy way, not just sort of like traumatic flashbacks, she's kind of confronting, you know, her, her loss or pain, also the, the damage she's created in these relationships and the one person who's really still there and kind of has her back is the O G you know, Jolene, James: [00:21:44] Jolene. She's not getting anything from the chess Federation. She's not getting anything from the state department and yeah, Jolene stuff's up there playing squash. I think it's squash, right? Squash. Yeah. I never play squash. If you Danny: [00:21:55] play squash, I've never played squash. I don't know, but it looks like fun. Yeah, it did look like fun. Um, I gotta be honest. Um, I was like, I, so I played, I feel like T tethered, wait, tetherball is not quite the same. Um, you can play tetherball outside. I think. Um, I've seen a lot of squash courts. You know, what always scare me about squash is that they're hitting the ball so hard. And these guys are, were in goggles, like for their eyes. Like you walk by the gym, I'm going to play basketball at the YMCA. I see some dudes playing squash and I'm like, that just looks like it would hurt if the ball hits you. And you're putting yourself in a really dangerous enclosed cage. So, so yeah, that's my. I agree. I never played squash. James: [00:22:38] I agree. You know, I play golf because I hit the golf ball very far away from everybody. But like that thing comes back at you, right? It's like, it's, it's like worse than table tennis cause table tennis. So you can kind of see and prepare a little bit. And it's this little tiny little ball, but I don't know what that squash ball is, but it looks scary. Danny: [00:22:54] Yeah. Not about we recently played the. I forget the game, but you can kind of play on the beach where you have two rackets in a, in a, in a smash ball. It's, it's kinda, and you, like, you just hit it up to each other back and forth. You see how many you can get there. You see people doing that. It's like a wooden racket and like a little rubber ball. And, uh, we did that and recently back in September. Um, but, uh, but yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Um, um, that's a, that's a ball with bread. It's a ball with brackets that I have never partaken. Yeah. I feel like, James: [00:23:25] you know, when you have that racket, you're just like, get out of here. Danny: [00:23:30] Let's see how long we can talk about this without talking about anything real James: [00:23:36] well, let's end this game of all this shenanigans and let's get on a plane, Danny. We're on a plane again, and we're headed into the Soviet. Union to Moscow. And, um, you've been there. It's a thing you've been there. Right. It's Danny: [00:23:48] beautiful. It's a real place, not a made up place. Right. For all you flat earthers out there, it's a real thing. Um, you know, place and, uh, yeah, so she's, so she's flying to Mustapha and she's, and she's in a good place, right? She's, she's, uh, she's studying chess and, and she's, um, Serious, you know, she's serious, she's ready to rock. And here we go. We're back in the motherland. James: [00:24:11] The state department gives her a handler, I will say yes. And I do love the exchange with this guy. She has no idea what, what department this guy's from at all. And like he's telling her that, you know, uh, you might see, you know, Mike, you know, Okay. First officers signals from foreground to say, well, what would that look like? It's like, I don't know. And it's like, you know, you know, Y Y you know, is there like Russian interference or something like this? Like, what is border I'm going to do where God was like, never spoken to her really. Right. And, um, nor does he really speak to her at all, even in this one, but yeah. Danny: [00:24:47] Um, no, it is a funny scene because it does represent some of the. I think it was kind of silly. Like first he gets the drink, offers her a drink. She says, no. And then like says no drinking. And she's like, well, you just offered me drink. He's like, that was a test. And then start saying all the things that they might do, but there's sort of like a level of paranoia where Beth is like, this is insane. Like, I don't even know what to tell you. And, uh, James: [00:25:09] I can do chess. I came for jazz chess. I don't know if you know, we're all chess players and we're going to be playing chess. And, um, but yeah, yeah, we're there it's. We're in Moscow. It's lovely. Um, I never been on urban rush. I have a few friends, including you that have been to Russia, uh, Danny: [00:25:26] show the Kremlin, they show the Spassky building. Right. Which is just absolutely. The Kremlin is amazing as well as this basket building it's and there's something magical about the. I don't know. I mean, originally I would think of like movies, like on a stage. Yeah. Like as a kid, like the Russian princess, you know, but like the, the Ark, uh, the architecture and just, it's a it's, you know, that's kind of the symbol of, Hey, we're we're in, we're in Moscow, baby. Yeah. Gives me that James: [00:25:51] Tetris vibe, Danny: [00:25:53] vibe. Love it. The brick. James: [00:25:56] Yup. Alexi PA PA PA evolve is the creator of, of Tetris from Russia. Um, there's a whole backstory that I'll link to a very great video of the entire history of . Okay. I gotta check this out. Yeah. Good. It, you know, how, how Alexi who actually worked at Microsoft for a little bit of time, um, maybe still does, or does it Lexi work maybe still works at Microsoft. Could be maybe not, but anyways, yeah, he worked in like this. The studio need developed Tetris literally on, you know, the government, you know, R and D center. Um, and that's where it was created. It's a whole, it's a whole thing. And he was working. Working there. They basically try to take it from him, but like he was able to get, I don't think he, I don't think he got a lot of money from Tetris itself because of the time and the era, like basically, you know, Russia kind of owned it is this whole backstory I'll give the whole thing is great. Um, can wait. It's good. It's a good history lesson because it's of the era kind of in a way. I mean, granted that happened and kind of like the eighties or whatnot, but still con kind of similar as you know, not a lot has changed between those two times anyways, we're there and. I love Beth goes into her room. I love that. I love like the hammers, like this room is a lot, like, so much nicer than mine. She sits there and she's like, yes, yes, this will Danny: [00:27:12] do nicely. Yeah. This is, this is a great room. And the handlers, the handler is such a funny scene, right. Because yeah. James: [00:27:20] He knows nothing about chess and he, he just, you know, yeah. Danny: [00:27:25] Well, the board golf thing earlier in the earlier episodes where he has his handlers from the KGB. Right. So it's just interesting. And the dynamic of, of the, uh, the battle between like the West and the, and the, you know, the Soviet union was just so real. I mean, that, that whole thing was, that was a real deal. Right. And I don't know a lot of stories of Bobby Fisher's handlers. I know that that whole, all that stuff kind of like existed, but I, I don't know enough about it to. To suggest that how similar that is, but it was just, I think it was just funny and like, you know, I love that he presents how much nicer her room is, James: [00:28:00] so yeah. And, uh, chest starts. I love, I wrote down this entire, I wanted to ask you about this quote from Thomas Huxley, which is the chess board is the world. The pieces are the phenomena of the universe. The roles of the game are what we call the laws of nature. And the player on the other side is hidden from us. Danny: [00:28:20] So, I don't know what to say about that quote besides sounds great. Right? It sounds great. Like I, uh, I think it's, uh, I think. Just as a, as like w w what we'll call it, like, like the, the, the lore of chess, or like the, the symbol of like, strategic thinking that the game is like, outside of, there's like the professional world of chess players, where a lot of them just think, like, Beth, like to remind us in episode six, where they ask her if she does puzzles. And she's like, I always considered them a waste of time. They would never happen in a real game. Right. She's a. She's what I would classify as a gamer. Like for whatever reason, she figured out she had talent for something. And it was like, it was because she was good that she got even better. She wants to win. She wants to crush for whatever sense of self fulfillment. She gets by destroying another man's ego. Right. That's who she is. And then there are people that are like, Kind of like the scientists who are, I would say more like the technical bore Gov's who appreciate like the mathematical simplicity of like, just like how technical the game can be. And that it's a game of like black and white complete information. And then I would say there's like the artists of chess and that's kind of like quotes like that. Remind me of like people who just love, like the, the beauty of the game. They look at it like it's art. Right. And I've never been in that like third class, because like, I. I look at art and I think it's either really bright and pretty, or that, that I'm not a big guy who just like, looks at like, You know, an artist and a painting and like dives in for hours on Lake, the symbolism of how the colors interact and how that's the representation of like universal stuff. And as someone who's quite the existentialist, right. In contemplates the meaning of life and his, and his purpose on a regular basis, like, I don't know why I'm here. I mean, I am that person, but when it comes to chess and like the art part of it, like I just never have been that person. Right. It's I look at it the same way I look at art. Like that's a pretty picture or it's not, I'm not into it. Let's move on. So, I'm sorry, I'm just being, this is just me, right? I'm just not the artist, just player. And that sort of quote is like the, the beauty and the symbolism of the game. And, you know, I had a friend when we were younger, who literally talked about chess, like as like a representation of like the balance of the universe, like Taoism, like it was like everything about chess is the yin and the yang and the balance. And like, you can sacrifice. Pieces for the initiative. And there's always a perfect balance of struggle for power between black and white on the board and, and all. And I literally blacked out like 10 minutes, you know, 10 minutes ago. Right. I'm like, I get it. I don't know what to say. I'm like playing to win the game. I get ya. So I'm, I'm a little more like on the Beth circle. Like that line of thinking as far as like why I haven't got good at chess more than I am on. I just appreciated the beauty of the game kind of James: [00:31:03] thing. And I couldn't even really find why this. Cause if I, if I looked up Thomas Huxley, he was like an English biologist and. There's really nothing in his Wikipedia page about chess at all, or it wasn't like a chess player and it was, it was very odd, but it was, yeah, it's a beautiful quote. I agree. It's a beautiful quote. I don't know anything. Why, why rationale behind it? It is definitely there. What I wanted to ask you though, is they open this up. It's definitely there. It's definitely a thing. And I was going to ask you, this is unlike any other chess. Set up that we've ever seen. It's almost like a runway in the middle and you have been to Moscow, you have played chess in Russia. And I Danny: [00:31:48] it's like that. I can tell you that, that it was, it was, it's a beautiful setup for sure. Sure. Is, is it realistic? James: [00:31:54] Is this Danny: [00:31:54] like, I mean, it is, it is. Um, I would say again, and I think I said this in earlier episodes, one of the. What are the only things I found unrealistic about some of these elite events they created for the show was how close the fans are. Right. Like sitting right up on top of them, you know, in some ways. Um, but as far as like, The stage, right. And like kind of the dark, the dark, um, like the dark lighting for where people sit. Right. And then like sort of the overexposed lighting over where the chess players are playing. Right. You're with me on that. Right. And how they, how they outline that. That's, that's, that's kind of realistic. I mean, we're about to see. Taught a steel kickoff here, um, actually tomorrow, um, on, on chess.com, which is, you know, like I always say it's kind of like the Wimbledon of she has been around forever or super tournament. They are playing it in person. I'm going to be very interested to see what the restrictions are for COVID and how this all goes. But, um, But, but that's like, that's like a very well lit room in like more of like a, it feels like a, just a wooden floor ballroom. That's a very common setting. And, but that setting is also very realistic. The, the dark, the dark lik sort of amphitheater, and then the people on stage, the chess players were kind of putting on a show like there. Almost like a Broadway play kind of feel. Right? So that, that is like a setting that you've seen a lot of world championship matches on and you know, everything else in the room is dark besides the light over the chessboard of these elites. So that would be realistic other than the fact that like the people watching are like, Like right on top of them. Right? Like they're like arms linked the way other than that. I mean, that's, you know, it's an Epic setting, not, not a super common setting, but it is a realistic one. It is something that, you know, you've seen for sure. James: [00:33:40] Got it. Got it. Yeah, it was, they had all the boards, like in a row as it's kind of the first time we've seen this sort of set up here and there. Calling out, this is a big match. This is, can you talk maybe about the significance of this match that we've seen a lot of matches and sort of how they've increased, but this is sort of the gudetama like, this is the Danny: [00:34:02] right. Well, again, they've been setting this up, like from the beginning, as far as like going to Moscow, if you win this, you go to Moscow kind of thing, right? Like the U S championship. And they've been setting this up as like, So the, like the climax of all of her chest experiences, right? This is, this is the big one, like you said, what, what, where did you just use? It was a fancier word than I know James: [00:34:24] who data. I think that's a real word. I think it's a real thing. Danny: [00:34:28] it's a fancy word. Kind of like Jolene says she used a lot of fancy words. True. Um, when she had her interview at the law firm, um, that was a fancy word anyway, so yeah, so it's the coup d'etat. Um, and, um, the, the, her Magnum Opus. Can I say that? Is that a thing? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Wow. Sounding smart. Um, no, so it's, but I would say that's just all been part of like the, the fictional storyline of the Queen's gambit. There had to be a journey and sort of a, you know, a way that she was going to ultimately either like, make it as a person and a chess player or not. And I think that again, Moscow is like a chess capital of the world. Um, it's, it's a city that has, you know, held like. Many world championship matches. It's you know, a city that has held historically one of the strongest, um, Open and regular tournament's, um, it's an open semi kind of closed the Aeroflot open, um, which existed before that, before it was named after the Russian airline, I forget, but like, and that's actually usually held in God, what's the hotel, the hotel. That's actually very close to the Kremlin in this basket building. Um, so like all that stuff like plays well with chess and chess lovers, chess, historians, just players, because there's no way you would question that an Epic. Finale accrue day, Todd would take place in Moscow with Beth being the American there to fight against the Soviet union and this rival bore. Right. But if I'm kind of, the question you were asking is whether, whether that's like, are you asking me whether that's like a realistic thing for this to be like the big event or, okay. Yeah. So, so it is right, but again, there's no like. What I said in the beginning, when, like, when there was a qualification that happened for Moscow, there was no Lake, there's no grand Prix that ties a us championship to like events in Moscow and Paris. Right. Like that's never existed. So I was clarifying that that's that part of it, but there are, there are similar things to that. Right there have been. You know, events that if you're the top American, you, you would maybe get to play in the candidates and represent America there. And so all of that stuff is loosely accurate enough that it, that it, you know, it makes sense. James: [00:36:36] Got it. Yeah. And I, the opening here is pretty dramatic as they call in everybody and her first Michigan's, uh, lab. And, and, uh, this one's fascinating because as. He sits down. They actually start to blend in some of the real world here as they make. I mentioned to Nona God, bruh dash . Danny: [00:36:57] Um, and so she actually was, you know, she's one of the greatest woman, chess players of all time. And, um, so go ahead. I'll let you. Set. Yeah. So that was a good reference. And like we said, they've done such a good job of like mixing in fact and fiction, which blurs the lines between wait, was that, was that real or not? Right. And that's what a lot of people have asked about the show in a good way. And the chess players have super appreciated, like, Hey. This is like, they're doing such a good job of making us feel like, yeah, they did their homework. They know. And no-no govern. Dish really is a legend in the, in the chess world. James: [00:37:29] Yes. She's the first woman to be awarded the few days a title grand master, which we've talked about before. Um, she was the women's world champion from 62 to 78. Uh, she played in the Olympics, the women's Olympiads, uh, in the 1980s. Uh, and then. Dubai in 86, you want all, you've got Danny: [00:37:48] plane, you got her Wiki up right next to you, James: [00:37:51] five times or of the women's Soviet championship at 64, 73, 81, 83, 85. She continues to dominate to this day, I would say. And you know, it was fascinating because I think that when I look at it, um, It's a very small, it's a very small segment where they, they pan the camera to her. But if you're not a chest person or didn't know, pause to write down the name and Google it right. You would have no idea. Yep. Yeah. Danny: [00:38:17] But nailed it. Yep. Nope. Nailed it. Like, like you said, hashtag nailed it. And it's an appropriate way to move toward our. It's sorry. I did it again. It's not my job. Go ahead. James: [00:38:27] Go ahead, Beth. Here, let's just get to the first game because the games go quick. Uh, the first one here versus lab as 27 move victory. That's fast game, Danny. Danny: [00:38:38] It's super fast. Yeah, no. And that's, that's, that's what that's known for, right. Is when she's successful. She's historically any way crushing people and, uh, Yeah, it sets the tone that she's found herself again. Right. We already we've seen this dog and pony dance before we've seen her show up and be a baller. And then at some point in the event get pulled back into her, you know, her demons went out. Right. So, but yeah, this is definitely a sign that like, okay, Beth is back. She crushes this guy and we love it. James: [00:39:07] Yeah. And then we get our first, uh, this is the most realistic favorite scene of the entire movie, which is the chess player dinner. Yeah. I want to ask you about this because in the, um, I used tobacco my glory day, when I used to go and speak to people about development and stuff, there would be when people traveled back, when people traveled, there would be like speaker dinners and or you, you get, you get invited to a conference it's kind of like playing jazz. You invite to a conference, you give a session and like, Hey, you know, we're going to get all the speakers together and have a speaker dinner. And I I'm, I'm not, uh, I'm not. I'm not a fan. You would think that like, Oh, I love to speak to people. I love speaker dinners. Like I, I'm not a speaker dinner person. I'm basically Beth Harman in this because I feel awkward. I'm like around people that I don't know very, very well. Sometimes there's a coworker or two there, but like, I'm just going to go. I'm just going to go to like, in and out, or like to whole foods and get a salad, right? Like that's what I'm going. I'm want to sit by myself over here. Like, that's kind of what I want to do. It's like, you know, it's almost too fancy for me. Like I'm not, you know, not that I'm like, I don't want to be rude, but it's just not my shtick. You know, I don't enjoy doing that. And that's sort of what we see here where Beth surrounded by all these players, chit chatting, you know, and she's. Kind of just, she can sit there by Danny: [00:40:24] herself more alone than you would if you were just actually alone in your hotel room, eating your own dinner. Right. Because it like highlights the social anxiety and stuff, you know, I'm, I'm a hundred percent with you, again, as someone who people would think like, you know, I literally, you know, talk for a living and, and am on camera a lot and all that I'll say, um, it's so funny. This is coming up. Cause two, two things to say one, I want to say these dinners, like that's a very common thing. In fact, one of my first. Fancy schmancy speaker dinners, where I was, you know, one of the players invited, you know, To an event like this was actually in Russia. Um, when I was 15 playing in this event where I got my first international master norm and it was actually the first time I had alcohol fun fact. And it was because the glasses were filled in front of me of like wine or vodka. I didn't even ask just everyone had it. Like you sat down and I, I, you know, it tastes a little bit of wine. I'm not going to lie. I did. Okay. There you go. I was 15 there, you got no adjustments. Right. And, um, and it was a, it was a cool experience. Um, the, the talks that were given were in Russian. So I, at the time I was learning Russian and. Do it doing a pretty good job, but I didn't necessarily pick up everything. Um, the guy that was with me, my, my handler, so to speak. If Beth had a handler, I had a handler to Alan shatter to you, big Al um, won't say his last name, but Allen was the guy who, when I traveled was with me, who was fluent in Russian and actually worked, worked in the CIA fun fact before the wall fell. So he's got stories, man. He's got real KGB story. It was a lot of fun to be with him. And, and he came with me to Russia. What he got was if he paid his own way, he would get to sit in with me on all my lessons with and these guys. So that's what Alan got out of it. And what I got was my parents felt better. Cause I was with a guy in his mid thirties who was fluent in Russian while I was 15. Right. So anyway, long story short, um, those dinners really do exist. Fun fact, that was when Danny had his first sip of, of, uh, alcohol. Um, and, uh, and. Then then to the, you know, the social is how you put, dude, I totally relate to that. In fact, I was interviewing a guy yesterday for a job, um, who, who we may hire as, um, uh, someone to be kind of going to work in our community management stuff. And, and he said, he met me in Norway, which was the last time I was at maybe one of these dinners, which was in, in 2019. We weren't also for the Fisher random bullshit championship and Magnus was there and the car was. There. And little, little did I know that would be like the last event I was traveling to. Right. Because we came home, had the holidays in 2019 and then COVID hit. Right. Um, and he said he met me and I, I felt bad, but I told him, I said, you know, one thing that. I really struggle with is being in a room where I know people know me and I don't know them. Like it literally makes my skin crawl. And it's a weird thing. And that's not like an ego thing. Cause I'm like, obviously in the chess world, it's like a, you know, we're not, you know, we're not, you know, major celebrities or anything, but when you're in a chess setting, right. Including people recognize you because you're on freaking camera all the time and a talking head, right. It literally gives me social anxiety. And I don't share that often. And like very. But it's really a thing that I have. And sometimes it makes me seem a little more awkward or I go out of my way to like call my wife so I can be on the phone in a quarter because it really bothers me if I feel like I'm standing in a room and someone's looking at me and I know they're about to introduce themselves. It like, it makes me nervous. It's a weird thing. I get social anxiety. Yeah, James: [00:43:44] it's the same. I've, I've gone to some user groups back in the day and, you know, ones that I host where I'm the host and I'm doing things it's very different. And then I would, you know, get in into this room and I'm like, I don't feel comfortable here for no reason. I just, I don't know, something takes it, it takes over me. But, uh, we see that in Beth a little bit. Danny: [00:44:02] We both, we both connected with Beth there. We did, James: [00:44:05] it was, uh, it was a great moment. Um, you know, I mean when you can be like, wow, I have like, just this one thing in common with one of the greatest chess players of all time then, uh, then boom. Uh, so she continues to crush over here. My favorite was the end of the third game, uh, which I don't actually know who she played. I think we saw the scene for a little bit, but this is the first time that bore Goff gets up and looks at her end game. She studies her board big move and she turns around she was walking away. Cause they leave the chest area at the end of each, after they win or lose a gracefully or not, as we will see and board of golf gets up because he's like, I can't, you know, I don't know if it was a quick game or what it was, but, um, this is kind of very, uh, typical of him. Danny: [00:44:52] Well, and it also is a sign that, that. The he kind of is paying attention, I guess. And we already knew he's been paying attention, but this is like the fact that they go out of their way to have the scene of like Beth noticing that he's noticing. Right. And it kind of creates that we already know where we're headed here. We're headed for the Epic bore gov Beth showdown, right. Harmon versus bore goblin. It'll be again, we've had in Mexico city, we've had Perry, right. And this is going to be the third. The third rematch. Um, but I think that's kind of what they're just setting the tone. And also, you know, I kind of saving my point about the Borgata Beth relationship and I read what some people thought the interpretation was on the internet, even after watching it again last night. And I think. I think there was more to that and maybe more potentially for SQL than just like him acknowledging a rival as far as like how she's kind of won him over a little bit, you know? And I think, um, and I think this is just another scene. That's interesting. And it's just building up toward the, uh, toward our showdown. Yep. James: [00:45:49] And every time that Beth leaves the building, the crowds continue to grow and swarm her started with just a few people. She kind of is becoming this, this idol in, in Russia, which is cool. So cool. It just kind of completely swamps her and she's like, you know, taken, taken by it. And it's really cool. And we kind of see that trend continue to go. We see a few more matches, really quick. Halstrom who marches off and just get super pissed off. And then we see Shopkin who is a graceful exit, you know, out, you see this difference in players as they get beat by, by Beth, um, back and forth. And we land on this beautiful scene right before my favorite. Match match. Number six is my favorite, but we see this beautiful breakfast scene in Russia, which I'm assuming is reminiscent to all of your breakfasts in Russia, aware and all live in your 11 year old asks you if you would like a big, beautiful glass of vodka in the Danny: [00:46:43] a hundred percent. Um, yeah, no, it is, uh, yeah, that doesn't actually happen, but yes. Um, anyway, so it's, uh, it's. What is it about it? I feel like there's something as you're describing it, and I'm remembering watching it last night. Like the it's kind of a celebration of where Beth has been. And I think that the. You know, she's in a place where chess players are appreciated. Right. And that's one of the things that we know, like there's the scene in the U S champion scene where Benny is like, literally resentful over the fact that they're superstars and they're, you know, I'd like that whole scene where he just like tears down the room, right. Where they're playing to a championship in Ohio and, and, um, And is that part of it is real. Whether, you know, the breakfast were that, you know, extravagant and whether, you know, people were waiting paparazzi to S to cheer and take pictures, like, um, I'm going to guess that's a little over done. You know, I wasn't there in the sixties and seventies, you know, but I will say that the, the general. You know, story is like, again, because she has, was a Soviet sponsored, uh, Soviet, uh, supported state, state sponsored sport, you know, and, and, you know, the things we've talked about many times in this series, like chess players were deeply appreciated throughout Eastern Europe, um, and, and Russia. And, um, and so I think that's kind of like, that's kind of the way she feels about that. Right. And we already know in episode six where she kind of told. Uh, Cleo, like she could live anywhere right. And, and could do anything. And I think there was a part of Beth and I, without spoiling the total ending yet, we're going to get you where, like she likes, she likes where she's at. She likes Russia. She likes being appreciated and they definitely set the tone of how she's. You know, she's appreciated there for who she is. James: [00:48:26] That's true. That's a good way of looking at it where we, I think we take a lot of sports fall for a granite where a lot of sports players or celebrities and in the chess world that hasn't wasn't that way or, yeah, you're right in Russia. It is. And these, these people are a big deal and, and anyone that's even, there is a big deal and. Um, we, we sort of see that in the celebrity status of some of these other players, as they were introduced in the very beginning, the round of applause, just like the amount of people that are there, the amount of people that are gathering, especially for the end and a match there. But, uh, before we get to the bore golf match, we get a lot Chanco match. And I love Leschenko what a great hair, sweat does everything about him. And there's all these flashbacks where he's like, he's like sleeping while they're all watching a movie or whatever, you know, I'm just this guy. I love everything about him. They just love him. Danny: [00:49:11] Well, and remember, isn't it the same actor that plays Mr. Scheibel or am I misremembering that no, hold on. Not correct. James: [00:49:21] That's not correct. Then Danny: [00:49:23] episode, right? Remember the name? No, but the person she plays with the big hair and, um, is, is, is supposed to represent what I think the person is supposed to represent. Like. Um, someone who she's like modeled herself after from a chess player style, but I'm pretty sure it's the same actor. I James: [00:49:43] am DB Queens gambit. Here we go. We're doing real time thing, but yeah, he is while Danny is looking this up, he is the oldest player there. So he is the most, you know, seasoned player there. He's a world champion, um, there and yeah, we're going to look up the IMDP just so we can be really 100% sure I can't be right. I don't believe you. Mr. Scheibel Mr. Mr. Sarno bill. I was just Mr. Shy, shy of hall. Lou Chanco. Lou Chanco is Marcus lodges who plays Lou Chanco and Mr. Scheibel is bill camp. So you're wrong, sir. Danny: [00:50:22] You are right. I'm wrong. I'm wrong. I got that information from someone. Maybe there's some person will get yelled at. I, I don't know why I thought that. I thought that Lou Chanco was, um, it, it is a great scene. Right? And it's like, he. You know, she kind of says like, Hey, I followed all your games. Right. And, and he's like, and he acknowledges that he, as you know, has seen her games. Right. So I feel like someone told me that that was supposed to be like a doctor, like a Mr. Scheibel thing, the person was wrong. James: [00:50:58] Well, I will say that they, that person, Marcus lodges also as a producer on all of all seven episodes. So there's that, Danny: [00:51:04] so maybe that was, uh, a cool thing too, that he, uh, Yeah, you're right. That was wrong. And you know, another wrong piece of information by Dan, hold on. Just mentioned the Kinko's games since she was young, maybe with, you know, Mr. Scheibel. Okay. James: [00:51:20] Mr. Scheibel taught her about her. It's hard to say. Danny: [00:51:24] Okay, well, there you go. Anyway, so yeah, Lou, Chanco it, obviously the guy is someone who she says she studied the games. And so to, to beat him is like a huge coming of age kind of thing. Right. And then my, my theory, I told myself in my head that it was supposed to be also a shout out to Mr. Scheibel. I was wrong and we move on. James: [00:51:42] Yeah. And because they really talk him up right. Then now he's a world champion, but he defeated. Um, I'll kind of I'll I'll eloquent Danny: [00:51:50] Al kine, L you'll hit. James: [00:51:52] Yeah, thank you Alica. And when he was a boy, there was a, he had a draw with man. I'm going to butcher all these names, but bought VIN veneer, and then crushed, uh, Bronstein, um, Danny: [00:52:04] bronze, one of the best chess authors ever. So Bronstein and bought Vinik were rivals of their era. Botvinnik was the, the Soviet. King and ultimately the father of the Soviet chess school, literally. I mean like people, like as far off, was trained in the bot Phoenix school of chess. So it was named after him. So he's often referred to as kind of the father of the Soviet chess, uh, regime dominance. Right. He was also just fun fact. He was also like very outspoken politically and a communist. And so he was literally the perfect figurehead for what the Soviet union needed. He was a. He was a full-blown Marxist, like huge Stalin Lennon, Trotsky, the whole, he was a huge supporter of the communist movement and the Soviet regime. And so for him to also be world champion was like, like literally he's considered the father of Soviet chess. Um, and the reason the schools were named after him and, um, and. You know, he's the, he was the kind of guy they wanted Fisher to be for the West. Right. They wanted Fisher to win in the West and then be this representative of, you know, the Western Judeo-Christian like dominance capitalism for the wind. Right. And Fisher refuse to do it. It's funny as I'm going down these search, these search holes, that was a weird thing to say that the search holes on Google, um, You see theories like that, like was Beth Harmon, a Russian spy, like w w which is the kind of theories people had about Fisher, uh, that he was a communist. Um, it's not that it matters. Right. But anyway, that's just, it's all just super interesting. And the way we know this, this series ends, you know, um, that we'll get into. Um, is, is really interesting how it home Beth feels her, her final like fancy outfit that she has in the, in the final moments, being in the Russian park with the babushka, you know, the, uh, the, the, and it's all, it's all so good. I love it. I really hope there's a sequel. Yeah, there's James: [00:53:54] a, this, this, this entire episode is super fun because. Yeah, you get this great Leschenko match. They go to a German, which is the first of two of Germans that we have. Um, there's a fascinating part where we get a call back kind of to the comradery and the team teammates for all intents and purposes that the Soviets have because she sees all of them collaborating in a room together. Now why they have the doors open is beyond me. Um, that's definitely get off. Oh, we're all going to be, we're all going to be studying this chess board and of course, best rooms right down the aisle saying Danny: [00:54:31] kind of weird, but, and she, and she's, you know, sees them all working together. Right. A little, not envious at the time. At least she sees what Benny was saying is to be true. Right. They're better because they work as a team. They work as a James: [00:54:42] team. Yeah. I mean, I guess you could do anything during your adjournment. Like I guess like it doesn't, I mean, that's, what's kind of weird. We talked about a Germans that kind of happen a little bit less now, but like. It's so weird to me that all of a sudden, Oh, we got this a German now we're literally going to the end game that you would get to. If there wasn't an, a German is probably dramatically different than if there was no adjournment a Danny: [00:55:06] hundred percent. And we're going to get into that when we talk about the, the Yvonne Chuck, uh, short game. Right. Um, which was the final game versus board optimum. But do we want to talk about the Lou Chenko game now, or, or, I mean, I I'll say this. Yes. A hundred percent. And in general, Chess has changed a lot since in the modern era, without outer Germans in the, since the introduction of sudden death right now, I w you know, as, as someone who's actually been called an evil chess, popularist, that's something I almost replaced my Twitter info with, by the way, just that's going to be my info, like who is Daniel wrenches and evil chess populous. And because, because chess.com obviously has been. You know, sort of the industry leader. I mean, I'll just say it since, you know, a lot of the things we've pushed to the forefront from, you know, with streaming and, and commentary over faster time controls historically, you know, to do commentary on blitz is insane, right? Just as, as Medina, like you can't do commentary over blitz, right? That's that's what a fool, a fool's errand, but, you know, chess has evolved a ton faster time controls are entertaining, and they're also more fulfilling, frankly, for observer and player, because like you can tune into the speeches championship. And see a lot of start and finishes, right? And then you get to see some checkmates and some fun stuff. Even if you can't watch the full three, four hour show, right. Rather than watching one game for six hours and, and how difficult that can be to the more casually interested chess enthusiast. Right. So, so yes, we have pushed faster time controls and the entertaining educational aspects of, of kind of the, you know, the patterns and the way that people can relate to chess rather than just like. You know, some, some deep variations where I'm calculating 30 moves, even if I can do it, but the fans there's only so much people can just appreciate that someone is an intellectual giant before they just sort of zone out. Right. And, and I think that that's not really what people want to see. Okay. So without digressing into all of that, I'm coming back to say like, All that said, and all of my defense of myself, of being an evil chess, populous to help the game grow. The truth is longer time controls. And our Germans were higher quality chess in some ways. Right? Because you had more time, frankly, you had unlimited time in some ways. And, um, there's no reason there's no debate that the reason. The last world championship match in 2018 was all 12 draws in the classical portion, despite a few opportunities that both car won and Carlson had. The reason it was ultra draws is because with really long time controls, chess players don't make many mistakes, man. Right. And people, people kind of like seeing drama and mistakes, but, but if you're talking like the pure chess, like. The chest purists, right? If you want, like the quality of it, it's twofold. Jess has gotten better and more accurate since the introduction of computers, because we now can prepare more deeply and understand, um, You know, chess at a higher level, frankly, due to like the, just the ruthlessness of how chess computers can expose a bad move, but also just from a human perspective, without long time patrols at a Germans, there's no way that chess humans, aren't making more mistakes. Right. Yeah. And so you do play a higher quality chess with a German and time to analyze it, especially if you have a team of seconds behind you. So, so that's my quick rant on that, like a hundred percent you're right. But you make different decisions. If you have, you know, a whole night and hours in a team to think about a position, then you do. If you're under the clock and you've only got 20 minutes, right. A hundred percent. James: [00:58:33] Yeah. It makes sense. To me, that's a. It's a, the, the, the game has changed. If you will. Danny: [00:58:38] The game has changed. We're in the end game. Now we are. James: [00:58:41] Wow. Hopefully I'm like Dan, not the end game of chess. So come on Dan, and get yourself together. Sorry, sorry. Anyways, in the end game of Leschenko. And do you want to break down this game at all? Because it was a, you know, a recovery from Beth here and even says at the end, it's a brilliant record. Danny: [00:58:58] Well, we've got the position where black plays Rook D four on the board, right? Right. So she plays Rook to Um, are we, are we following together? We're following together. I'm here. Okay. With you. And so already at this point, Like black, black is winning. And the reason is that after Roca D for attacking the queen, the reason that, uh, Lieutenant go has to play Queenie three is because if the queen moves to any other square, let's say to guard D one, knowing the blacks next was rookie one, let's say she goes to queen C2, go ahead and play that. Like when you see two guard D one, then the F three pawn hangs with queen takes F three. So the queen is overworked. That's actually a tactic. We haven't, she has, we're a piece is overloaded here. The queen is having to guard both and the D one square after the move, Rook D four and at a high level, like chess game, like why could resign right now after work four? Um, cause again, the queen is being skewered to the D one square, but if she chooses to guard D one, then queen takes up three. So in the game, um, The, uh, the move Queenie three is played Rook to check comes. Um, the only move is roped to E one to block the check. I'm following him here James: [01:00:09] with you, buddy. Danny: [01:00:10] I'm here, right? If the reasons for that is King to G2 allows Rook H to checkmate the Bishop on guards. H two. And if King F two, we have the move Bishop to D four. Um, well actually there's a million winds here. Rick H two is also winning, um, Bishop D four is just a pin of the queen to the King. So that would win a massive amount of material. So in the game, rookie one is played, um, and after the move wrote to Ian has played, Bishop Defour comes in and now, um, Lou Chanco I keep wanting to call him fake. Mr. . God I've really screwed myself up by convincing myself. It was Mr. Scheibel. Um, anyway, he resigns because the queen is skewered to the Rook on G one. Um, if you move the queen, I can even take E one and then take G one. Right? Um, so black is just winning a massive amount of material and, um, and the game is over. James: [01:01:06] Boom. And he says, he says, you're lying, resigned with relief. And that Beth is one of the best chess players that he's ever played in his. Danny: [01:01:15] I just love James: [01:01:16] it. I love that, dude. I just want more of that dude. Like, can I get a Chenko spinoff? So Danny: [01:01:23] good. Go spin off. That'd be great. I love it. God knows. Yeah. Great. James: [01:01:32] That's a great name for a podcast. Um, yeah, Danny: [01:01:37] crazy. That is a great, would be great if it was impromptu pockets where you and I are not allowed to see the hairdo before it's presented to us, we get a third party and the hair shows up, like it's a bullet and you and I have to tell a story if that hair could talk like what he's been through, but she's been through, that was a great pocket. James: [01:01:56] It's coming soon to a podcast player near you. Um, Yeah, we, we, we see the end of that game. We see, uh, another match actually versus Flinto, which is a four hour match. So this is sort of the night before my, before, Danny: [01:02:12] before Bergoff and all through the house, James: [01:02:15] pills are being flushed. And something, something, something, and then we're at the Borgata Danny: [01:02:20] B Harmon. And this is it. This is the big one, the big daddy. Why is, why is James: [01:02:25] Beth white starting this off? Because she'd kind of been black the entire time, but now in this instance, she's white starting off. Danny: [01:02:32] And it's funny because they don't, James: [01:02:37] they don't really say, I mean, I would assume then that Borg had a, but Danny: [01:02:41] was it, was it Beth white against him in. Episodes. She was white and Paris as well. Remember, she was black in Mexico city. Yeah. Then she loses with white in that Sicilian in, in, in potty. And then she gets white again. So I don't know. I mean, I think it makes sense that she would have white, obviously the colors kind of rotate in a tournament. Right. So I didn't. You asked the question. I realized I wasn't prepared to answer it. I didn't put a lot of credence into that. I think it's totally normal that she would get white. Um, just I guess just the way they did it, especially, especially given that literally like previous games, like she was black against Lieutenant code, but was she white again? Maybe that's interesting. Maybe you're right. Maybe it should have either way. I'll also say this in close tournament's it's not exactly the same as like color rotation because the pairings are kind of all set in advance. Like you already kinda know like. You know, your pairings one through one through nine or one through six. Right. You know what color you're going to get and whatever. So. It is normal. Sometimes that you could get two blacks and then two whites in a row or vice or visa versa. Yeah. Gotcha. Gotcha. So, so this is the big one, because really we should just, we should just start with the adjourn position. Right? I don't James: [01:03:53] want to talk about the call for a German. Right. Which is I started that a German, which is the entire audience gas back in, uh, in shock, to be honest with you, that bore golf calls for adjournment. Danny: [01:04:06] Right. Which is. Again, so there's, there's a lot, there's a lot to this, right? There's usually a, the person who calls for a German, like their believes it's a critical moment for sure. But also potentially believes that they're worse. Okay. And so the reason the crowd gas is because it's sort of an admission by bore Goff that he needs to look at this beast, right. He wants help from his team. So the reason I think they overdo that drama a little bit. Um, but the reason why it was played out the way it was is because typically the person who asks for a German kind of is like, I need to go look at this with my team. I'm nervous that I'm about to make a big blunder. I'm nervous that I'm on the edge of my seat and I need to double-check things kind of thing. So that's an admission by itself by bore golf that, that, Oh, believed the game has changed here with Beth Hartman. Right. Kind of thing. Got it. So does that make sense? Yeah. Um, but also like it's interesting because this game, as you pointed out again, the chess expert on the show is facili Yvonne shuck versus Patrick Wolf from the deal enters old 1993. And what's interesting is that date, that that event did not have a German. And, and so this is just a massive shout out to whoever, whoever consulted on this chest. I mean, I know Gary Kasparov was there. Who's been, I mean, not that he needs a shout out, but this is like, What we're about to break down here with the chiefs. Everybody is just awesome. In regards to why the Queen's gambit again, just like shook the chess world and is by far the gold standard going forward because the position that they adjourn with Mazzi is, is from avant Chuck Wolf. But in that game, as you pointed out on move 36, Avantia played the move G4, which, which is a mistake. And it was a bad move by Yvonne Chuck and the game is eventually drawn because of it like basically white blows the advantage with this move. Um, and, and didn't have the luxury of a German, but it's still super critical, not just that the G4 was played, but this is one of the first times I think, in the show where they don't just pay homage to a famous game, they actually improve upon the, over the board chess that was played. Right. Yeah. And so the move that Beth plays after, and I want you to break down the whole light, all the scenes of like, you know, the team of seconds being behind her, but the move that Beth plays is an improvement over a and the computer I've been letting the engine run the whole time, just to prove that that's how well they did the chest. That it's not just an improvement like subjectively, and then they. They make up dramatic moves in the show, right? The move that she plays, 37 96, and the line that follows is super forcing. And if Avantia had played that against Wolf, he probably would have won the game. The move the game that he, that she goes on to beat board off here. Yeah. It's just Epic. It James: [01:07:05] is. It's, it's super nutty and it's super fascinating because this is a German gets called and then we do kind of see that exact opposite play. Um, Because fortunately our good friend towns is back. Towns is back and then lives, Danny. Um, Danny: [01:07:21] funny. Yeah. Well details. I love paper. Do you like them? Do you hate them? You don't know. James: [01:07:27] You don't know he's here. Um, randomly from a Kentucky, like Lexington, Lexington post or whatever he's in Russia, but you know, this is a fun scene because she gives this big nod to Mr. Scheibel. She's being interviewed by, you know, question here and there. Yep. She's asked about it. We know how she learned chess, all that stuff gives a real good shout out to Mr. Scheibel and then as she's walking her way, you know, town's makes a call out. Um, he's here and. They're back in the room. You know, this is a, this is a time where Beth needs to be studying, needs to be doing stuff. And of course town's is distracting or, but don't worry because our good friend Benny is back in our lives. He's not that pissed off just a little bit, but he's going to spend the rest of his money on this. What must be the most expensive international call in the sixties ever to Russia, which obviously, I mean, they allowed, um, somehow, but he's there with the crew. The whole crew is there. Danny, Danny: [01:08:19] the whole crew is there. And not only that. Like she she's, they've got her back. Right. And they're going to work on this position and give her the best line to play. Right. You've got who is there in the background? You've got beltic you've got Benny help me out here, everybody. Right. By the way, is the boys right? Matt and Mike, Matt and Mike, right? The boys like boys. It's it. It's I. It's a little, it's a little odd. It's not totally unrealistic. Right. But it's a little odd that they're all suddenly in the same place. Yeah, it's true. James: [01:08:58] They're all randomly in New York, like in Ben's basement or whatever. Danny: [01:09:02] Right. They, uh, That's a little bit just kind of funny, right? I will say this, it doesn't really matter. There would certainly have been enough strong players to help a guy like Fisher. You know, you had his team of people that were helping him prep and do stuff, you know? Um, but, um, but the fact that it's like beltic from Lexington, Matt and Mike, who. Where the bleep are they from, by the way? Who knows Matt? Are they even real? Right, Matt? Like it, like if we watched the whole show, have they ever had a conversation with someone who wasn't Beth? Like, I James: [01:09:34] don't, I don't, I don't think so. I think just this is wheelie Danny: [01:09:36] and that's it like as you've got Benny anyway, it's just a little bit funny and odd, but either way, the point is the team is there and it is a cool. Sort of inspirationally, triumphant seem, you know, that they're all going to work together and help Beth get the job done. Finally. James: [01:09:52] Got it. I will say I've been trying to figure out who else or other chess consultants, uh, John Paul Atkinson and I pep rubbing, uh, we're both chest consultants on this episode specifically. I look on IMDP. I dunno. I don't know those people, but, um, I'm sure there's others. They're just not in the M B, which is fastest as far off listed. Kasparov is not listed. Interesting. Okay. I know he's their special consultant Garrick. Danny: [01:10:17] Okay. Yeah. I just, yeah, I feel like he had he, I mean, cause this is like such a high level chess, like improvement and interesting way to like present the power of adjournment. The fact that they improve on a famous game between a bond Chuck and Patrick Wolf. I mean, it's just. I just don't know. I just, I would have a super hard time believing that didn't have the direct influence of the hand of the King. Mr. James: [01:10:40] Gary, as far as other special consultants, Bruce Pandora. Yemi Danny: [01:10:45] Bruce, Bruce. Um, he was in episode six. I told you that, right? He's the. He's the local tournament director who comes out and gets her some Advil or whatever. The, the, the stuff there and tells her she can't smoke. My boy, Bruce, who I've been chatting with recently, because fun fact, we're bringing a boot. Bruce bought to chess.com. We, everyone loves the bots right now. The Beth Hartman bots, you can play against personalities that are. Kind of shaped around the chest level and the chest style of someone. And we've been working with Bruce who shout out to Bruce by the way, 2021 is his 50th anniversary of when he became a professional chess coach. He told me this year, This is his 50th year and he's still coaching. And so we're going to release a Bruce panel, Feeney bot soon, and kind of have him on a show. And I've known Bruce for a very long time. If you don't know, Bruce, Bruce literally is a legend. Like not only is basically the entire movie searching for Bobby Fischer with Josh. Waitzkin. Kind of based on him, just as much as Josh, which, which is the coach who Ben Kingsley plays the actor, right. That's based on, based on Bruce panel FINI, but he also was one of the first like commentators of like a massively followed chess match, which was Fisher's match versus Spassky in 72. He was a commentator for that. Um, And he's just literally a legend. I mean, he was wonderful. He was fobbing a car. One is for chefs, coach, uh, or at least one of them. Right. Bobby. Now obviously the number one American and recently challenged Carlson. So small digression, but you mentioned Bruce panel Afeni is listed in the IMD B and he is a, an absolute legend. So. James: [01:12:09] Nice. Boom. Um, yeah, so we get to, I mean, there's a whole thing. They're going through every single move. What if he plays this, but it plays this, we played this where he plays this way. He plays this and, um, yeah, I guess up to you to break down the rest of the chest at this time. Danny: [01:12:23] So the move G4. So everyone, everyone clicked a link. This is your last episode. Just do it. If you're listening in your car, do not click the link. You're driving and drive, focus on what you're doing. All right. But everyone else, um, click the link. And um, so again, If you click the link we gave, you'll see that G4 is actually the main line. And again, that is what a Bonchek played against Wolf. You can actually, if you have the engine running@thechess.com analysis link, you can see the evaluation shift back toward black, but the move 96 is the best. And it's what the, what Beth plays, right? It's what the team recommends. And, um, there's a number of moves that can be played here. We're not going to go into like, if he takes the night, this and that, but ultimately. I've been letting the engine run and I can say like, they've, they followed very well, bore golf, pretty much plays what the computer thinks is best for black with , which is a double attack on the . And I don't have six and the Rook hit the pod. Yep. Uh, B3 has played though, and that's kinda like the key move for Beth. Like you've let black take this pawn. And the reason is that now after the trade on D six, Bishop takes is forced because if you take on D six back, there's a move night FAA check, which wins immediately a fork of it, the King and queen. Got it. So, so now this is kind of like I forgetting the exact body language. Like you, it's kind of a cool inspirational scene and you're sort of flashing back to like what, what all the boys said that they helped her prepare, like how he's kind of like looking at her after she plays moves. Right? There's like the drama of. Like, she's kind of surprising him. He has to play Bishop takes ESX. It's the only move to stop the fork. And after now you take back the night and the key is the movie seven that this movie is preparing to get a queen on EA. Right. So white is like, why does gambit in the pawn on for the super powerful passport on East seven? Right. Um, because if you do the material count, black is actually up upon in the position, but the Poland is a monster. Yeah. Um, so black plays define that again, if you let the computer think is the best move, but this allows the move Bishop C5 to overprotect the pond. And after queen queen, preparing multiple things, including queen of five check and maybe the, the sacrifice we're going to see. Uh, the board of a tax, the Bishop on C5 with queen C6 and white just reinforces before she places move kind of quickly. And then bore Goff. I remember like he kind of shuffles body language just goes back to EA. And this is, this is the big moment, right? Where you see the whole idea of the sacrifice. Come to come to the, uh, the thrilling end. Yeah, queen of five check forces, the move King eight, everyone. The King has to go back. And the reason is that playing a move like you would just win the night for free. If the pod blocks the check. Got it. If the move queen did G six would be played. White can trade on G six with the queen King takes and then play Rook takes F six, removing the night. So that on the next move, you can get a new queen on E eight. You know what I'll even give the new link that I'm creating here. As I analyze this, I'll save it. And so everyone would kind of see the variations I'm entering as they go. Um, so after King H we get this move queen takes up six, which is just crazy. Brilliant. G takes Rook takes. And the point is there's no way to stop Rook FAA check and the pawn protects the FAA square. So, um, Beth is going to be winning back all of her material, getting a new queen on EA and winning the game in short order, after a few moves of some checks, and eventually she finds safety. She's crushing bore, gov up a Bishop and a Rook, and the game is over just awesome. James: [01:16:06] Yeah, it's, it's, uh, it's a beautiful sort of, uh, layout of, of chess moves to kind of watch it being orchestrated and watch that, uh, analysis bar Bob up and down until that critical point, um, in which, you know, the, the game kind of turns, and there's a point in the, in the. In the match in which they say, you know, he's not doing what he's supposed to do right. In, in this. And I think that's early on after the adjournment, in which, you know, if they were kind of talking about what the other, you know, match was going to be, Danny: [01:16:42] there's one place that different. Yeah. And again, it's, I think that's partly like the drama of saying like, is he actually playing the best defense the best line? I mean, I think that overall, like the point is 96 found by the team is an improvement over a Von, shook a Wolf, and it sort of puts more gov on his heels and you can see, he doesn't know what to do. Right. And, and he, uh, He gets, he gets, you know, he gets it, he gets hard, he gets James: [01:17:11] Harmon. He does offer a draw though, funny enough, um, which, Danny: [01:17:15] uh, she, of course, of the scene of like, you know, a draw would be a great result for, you know, with the English accent, um, would be a great result for, you know, her journey and this and that against the world champion. But we know how much Beth Hammad likes to win, shakes her head and Oh, no, she's just not want to drop. Um, So great. And, uh, and yeah, so then she wins, like the crowd kind of goes crazy, right when she's leaving and we get these just final moments where you don't know what's next for Beth Harman. What we do know is she puts on a beautiful white coat sort of thing. Right. And wanders the city. Um, do we want to, I mean, what else do we want to talk about before we bring it to those final moments of, of. Oh, Beth Harman in the, in the Moscow ball park. James: [01:18:04] I think that's really it. I mean that beautiful white dress and coat that she has on reminiscent of like a white queen. Right. There's a lot of, um, you know, symbolism in the outfits that she wears throughout the series. We've talked about it before. I do love this scene. Um, she's supposed to be going to the airport, heading home with her handler. Um, but she says, you know, pull over the car. She wants to get out. She wants to walk in and she sees all the chess players, which we see earlier, like everyone kind of in the park playing chess. And, um, as she walks up, you know, she's sort of surrounded and like their honor that she's there. And, uh, the one gentleman offers to play around a chest and she sits down and I just love the ending here and who knows. What happens to Beth? Nobody knows. Does she stay? Let's Danny: [01:18:50] let's play right. This was the last thing she says. And, and yeah, her, you know, her outfit is like, it's. It's like Russian royalty. That's what I want to say. Right. It's it's like, it's a super classy, like, like she's like a princess almost where she is. That's why you set up this like, scene of like, you don't know, like, does she want to go home? And then you've got the crazy Reddit threads of was Beth Harmon, a Russian spy all along. Right. And, or, and now she's home. Right. Um, it's anyway, it's, it's it's wild stuff and, but yeah, it's. So she's arrived. She did it. And so I want to share a little bit of the thoughts about the ending, because if you look at what was your initial thought? I know now you've seen a couple of times, but at some point in the show, at least episodes five or six, you didn't know what the ending was going to be. Assuming you haven't read the book by Walter Trevis again. Great book. Give a shout out to that. We were called out on that and some of the comments, again, just, you know, you can, you can read the book, but if assuming you had no idea, like, would this have a dark ending or a happy ending? Right. At what point, what were you betting on? You know, James: [01:19:54] I, I think I'm rooting for about the entire time, you know, I think that just because there is such a dark. Pass to it. And even here, you know, as you're going into this, uh, German, like town shows up just like a Cleo show at upper Chloe, Chloe Cleo, and, uh, showed up and you're like, well, is this going to be a good thing or a bad thing for her? You actually don't know up until that point. And to me, I think it was the Benny call that really sort of, I was like, okay, now let's go time because you don't know. I mean, Beth has been in these situations before where she obviously has grown so much as a player. Um, I think that. Learning so much about the past of what has happened, right. It's almost like she needed a win. Right? I mean, it's like all this stuff, she went through with a mom with a home with Mr. Scheibel in this episode, in this episode alone, it's like, to me, it's like almost it's it's her time. Um, so I think I was rooting, I think that I knew that there was going to be a happy ending at the end of this, but even still kind of up until that point, I wasn't a hundred percent sure. Danny: [01:20:54] Yeah. Yeah. I was asking because again, like the chess world. Was pretty split would happen. I remember a tweet from Yellen, Nepal, mushy, um, top, top Russian Grandmaster, shout out to yawn Nepo as, as we often call them and a friend of mine and, and place, you know, does a lot of our events, but so yawn, um, young tweeted like that, he was kind of he's disappointed, any kind of thought the ending was unrealistic given like all the scars and all the trauma and all the potential. Character traits like the behavioral patterns that we've seen from this character, for her to like rise above and be victorious, he thought was kind of like unrealistic. And, and I said, I, I understood what he was saying, but I thought like, I thought that was like, partly what gave it a twist ending? Because I would say at some point, even though I was rooting for Beth, I kind of thought that, that it would probably end with just knowing, I don't know. Maybe it's just modern cinema Mazzi I don't know, like, what is it? I expected there to be a dark ending. I really did. And there wasn't and so mate, so I told John, I said, honestly, like, I understand what you're saying, but I gotta admit. That was partly what I kind of enjoyed about the ending was I didn't see it coming. I didn't see that. I thought maybe she arises above and you know, our protagonists, our protagonist eventually, you know, defeats, defeats her rival. But I didn't know that I didn't think it would be maybe as clean and inspirational as it ultimately was. Right. That she overcame demons. She faced her past, she seems to have put the substance abuse behind her. She or she achieved this incredible feat and she's like super happy. And just like the scene of like, It's like, it's like, she's wearing this white coat, but it's like a scene of like, light, right. It's like, she's just like arrived. Right? Yeah. And I didn't expect it to be such a happy ending in that sense. So I would say that. While I understand like the, the perspective that maybe that was an interesting bow to tie on it. And yawns point of view, like maybe an unrealistic bow. I kind of thought that was what made it kind of interesting was I didn't see it coming in such a clean way. So I, I just wanted to say, I was curious your thoughts because I think that that was just, you know, an interesting way to end it. And will it lead to a sequel? I don't know. They certainly leave it very open-ended. I think that, um, whenever they do things like this, They always have to wait for the success because ultimately in our world money talks and everything else walks, as we know, um, it was seemingly successful. Will there be more who knows? But I will say that the ending caught me pleasantly by surprise, that it was so clean. And that was one of the things I actually liked about it. Even though I understand have point of view that that may be. Maybe a character with this type of past, hasn't seen the last of her demons. I don't know. Yeah. It's James: [01:23:34] always, it's always hard when you are so many movies and they're like, Oh, this, this romcoms going to have a happy ending and this one's going to have a happy ending and like, Oh, this, you know, Oh, and then at the end there's a twist and someone stabs that person, you know, it's like, okay, like you just, you just you're like, okay, great. You know? And so I think that this, this to me was a nice conclusion because there was such a big struggle. Right. Had had Beth won one of those games earlier than that. Wouldn't have been such an Epic conclusion, but, and this is her third, try at beating bore Goff. And she's grown so much through the years and as a chess player and up until this point, and she's got a team behind her. Now, these are things that didn't happen in earlier matches or Bork. I've had those, you know, he had that advantage. Um, there. So to me, this was a very nice kind of conclusion while it was nice. It was a limited series, as they say, they didn't, they don't say season one, they say limited series. So as, as we can imagine, at least the initial thought going into, into this is that this is it. This is the end. And if this is how it ends, I, I am happy with it, Danny. Yeah, Danny: [01:24:34] I agree. And it was an awesome ride. This podcast was also quite the ride. We started off. We brought back coffee house blenders, wild 2020 turns out Dan gets COVID midway through. Didn't see that coming as a podcast. Is he going to die after that podcast? Nobody knew, right. We, the MOTS squeezes every possible reference to the end game in the last end game. The end game of our, of our podcast, season two is now. And, uh, And we did it, James: [01:25:05] man. We did it. And that is a, another chapter in the coffee house of blunder saga. Now we may come back for a season through Danny and I've been floating around some ideas we want to hear from you go to blunders out a family, leave a comment on the page. There had a contact button or leave comment on the YouTube. We've been floating some ideas that we're not going to tell you what those ideas are, but Danny, have I been thinking about some stuff? So definitely. Keep the podcast floating around in your podcast player. But Danny, I want to thank you for your expertise in every single move and every single analysis from your real-world perspective of living through a lot of this in your life. And I know that everyone that has listened to the podcast up until this point that I know has really enjoyed your perspective and a tiny bit of mine. Danny: [01:25:51] I don't think that's true at all. And you, uh, I think that it has to be really noted again, that even though I'm giving the chest breakdown, MOTS, MOTS is the guy driving the ship and he really put frankly more, more, more probably effort and prep into the, what chefs we were going to break down. And then I sit down and act like I knew it all along. Uh, but yeah, it's, uh, It's been awesome. And, um, and all right, man, TGF assuming a lot of people are listening to this on a Friday when we record it, enjoy your weekend, everybody. And like mindset said, please, uh, Please leave a comment, give us feedback, share the podcast, please. It's a lot of fun when people find it. We love, we love it when people see the content and even dive into the first season. And, uh, thank you. Mazzi for having me. Yeah. James: [01:26:31] Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. And appreciate you bearing with me now. I will say if you want to stick around for a special end game. You can stick around after the credit roll here with a little music outro as Danny breaks down my first game in over two years with my good friend and listener of the show, Frank Kruger, as you see that I crushed him and I'll link to that in the show notes, but thanks everyone for hanging out. And this has been yet another coffee house blunders. All right. And we're back. And Danny, I just linked you to my first Chesky on chest all the time. Danny: [01:27:14] G and two weird ending. How is Frank doing by the way? Are you guys still doing your part? Oh yeah. James: [01:27:20] Birch conflict every single week. Every Monday. Danny: [01:27:24] Yeah. The, um, I know you've got, you've also got the one with our boy revet um, and so, uh, so you're, you're a podcast as well. Okay. So here we go. You're developing your pieces. First of all, love it. Love the nights out. Bishops before, um, sun's out guns out, uh, pawns out nights out. That's the chess chess way we would do that. Um, Okay, so D five, a little bit too aggressive. If we go to move five from, from our boyfriend, he's he's opening the center before his King has found safety, and that's going to come back to bite him. You don't do that against my boy. Mazzi age three. This should be six. So now he backs up, which note that you don't miss a beat. You recognize he underpins your night and you gobble that pawn baby girl. I love that. Queen F six, not Frank's best work now. . Look at you, dude. You're you are playing well, though. Jokes aside like big center or go home. I like to say, bring the nights out. You're developing your pieces. I want to, I want to believe that at some point you're going to get castled Quidditch fives, the first move by you. That I'm not a huge fan of, because at this point, You just need to get the King out of the way, because the position's about to blow open. And the sooner that that King is gone, that Iwan Square's available for your Rook and not your, your leader. You're going to be in great shape. So Quidditch five is a little risky by you. G six Queenie to five. Okay. Wow. Okay. Your question or no, no, no. I mean, I James: [01:28:55] will say this you'll see me castle later, but much, much later because I got myself in trouble. What I, what I read when I go back and I look at H five, so I move nine here in and out of the analysis board and the show notes, page five. Yeah, queen age five. When I look at that, it actually takes me a significant amount of time. To castle in this game and, uh, to, to get that King of move in. And I realized looking back at the game of that is when maybe I should have Danny: [01:29:23] played that, right? Yeah. A good point. And right then was the chemo because after, after that, after G six, while there's a temple of your queen, you can't counsel, you gotta move your point. Right? Then he plays B five, which is a temple of your Bishop. And you got to deal with that. You actually could have taken the pawn on believe it or not. And then queen takes, which would have attacked his King and his Bishop. But yeah, but either way, what I'm saying is I agree with your thought process, even if some of the moves, you know, aren't the best like overall you were right. Like after you missed that chance to castle, he attacks your queen, he attacks your Bishop. Then he takes the pony four and you got to deal with that. So you take what the queen, so your mindset became very much about all the Tempe, but I would say overall. The same lesson would be for Frank if he was the one here, right? Like instead of the move Bishop , for example, in Luke 12, he should be playing a move like 97, like develop his Knight, defend, defend the position, like the C6 pawn. And what does 97 prepare for him to get castled right. So if I was to say like an overarching lesson for ability, which is very common for players of this level is, you know, don't underestimate how critical that is because with more accurate moves, You know, you both could have been in more trouble, Frank, even much, much more so than you. Um, but you take on D five with the queen. Then you win the night and totally camp a grudge that, because at this point, this one you shouldn't counsel, you should take that free piece because of how much the position has changed. Um, and then you take another Bishop. So you, you were man, you were like Pac-Man, this is like, uh, speaking of which, by the way, we've got this old school. Like big old, like joystick Pac-Man that I hooked up to our big TV with like an adapter with like the yellow and red, whatever auxiliary cables into like an HTMI and the girls are obsessed with Pac-Man. I love it. That's awesome. Um, so then Queenie six has played and you trade Queens. And so at this point, This is what you've done. A great job because you're up so many pieces. you are advanced city, dirty dog. You are all over it. At this point, I moved 20. It doesn't matter if you cancel or not, you know, you've, you've won, you've won the house as they say, and it continues to be good. Eventually you do get castled. I see. And you take it home. Good stuff, man. I mean, honestly I think that the lesson was for sure, Frank opened the center way too aggressively needs to prioritize development and getting castled you kind of, you kind of could have lost the thread because you didn't do it. But overall his path was, was, was set for doom because he continued to play aggressively and never got his King safe. Yup. Yup. James: [01:31:48] Yup. So it was, it was a good one. He did lose on time, but I think that we all know that he really, Danny: [01:31:53] yeah, you were, you were up plus you were up a measly 25 points according to the computer and the final position. Yeah. My James: [01:32:00] favorite move was the fork. I think that was, you know, I, I saw it, you know, and I think that. Doing a lot of the chess analysis on the show while I kind of bring this up and looking and watching a lot of what we've done is is that, you know, there's these opportunities on the board that sometimes present themselves. So taking a little bit of time to find it. And I think that that was, I don't really remember myself actively engaging. To have a fork like that and look, and to get materials. So I do think that even though I haven't played chess for a long time, I've watched a lot of watch, a lot of analysis that you've done on chess.com and on Twitch. And of course, breaking down some of these games in the Queen's gambit. Making me realize of, of how the pieces move across the board and the opportunity that they can present themselves. Because in that move, I could have done some other things I could have brought out my Bishop or I could have, you know, I could have, um, um, you know, done some other move there. Castled for instance, you Danny: [01:33:01] read a heads up. Yeah. Yeah. So no, I a great, great description. And I think, um, sometimes that helps just goes like people get really into it and then you kind of fall out then maybe like the chest edutainment that is online, kind of peaks your interest again. And then you come back and maybe you're looking at the board a little bit differently. And I think that's a really good description. And the fact that you, I mean, you, it's no disrespect to Frank you're, you know, obviously better player or more experienced, but I think. Despite my kind of critiques of you playing queen H five, like overall, that was like, you just kind of crushed it. Right. And you didn't miss almost any of your tactical opportunities. You, you saw the fork, you know, you won the other, you know, you won the bishops. So I think that that's a good example of just. Kind of having a clear head, seeing the tactics in front of you, not deciding what you're going to do in advance, but really just seeing the board in front of you and wait to go, man. Seriously. Thanks expert bots, James Montgomery. James: [01:33:51] There, you have it. Well, thank you Danny, for breaking that down and I'm glad that I did okay. In your eyes. So that's all I can die. Happy. My end game is now complete, so Danny: [01:34:00] you didn't need to do it, but you did it anyway, you know? Um, so I do love you, man. This has been fun. All right. Talk to you later. Bye. Bye.