Tessa 0:23 Welcome to nanny augs book club a Discworld podcast. Join us as we read through all 41 of the fantastical and outrageous Discworld novels. I'm Tessa. This is Episode One more. All right, so this is our very first episode and very first Discworld novel. I am very excited to talk about mort. As I mentioned in the previous episode, we decided to start with wart mainly because it is more accessible as a entry point into the Discworld series depending on whether you're a stickler for reading and publication order or not. This is either your first book reading the Discworld series, or your fourth book reading the Discworld series. So, you know, if you if you feel like you need to read the publication order, you might want to skip around the episodes a little bit, but this is the first one that we are doing, and let's just dive right into it. So just a little bit of background information on mort more it was published in 1987. As I said, it is the fourth Discworld novel coming after color of magic light, fantastic sorcery and equal rights. However, it is the first one to focus on the character of death, the Grim Reaper, the anthropomorphic personification of death. before in previous in previous novels, he had just been kind of a side character a joke, you know, the Grim Reaper would show up and he talks in all capital letters and, you know, makes these really fun, dry humorous jokes. I'm sure we'll talk about that when we circle back around to those previous novels. The reason I picked this one to read first for this podcast is because Pratchett himself said that this was the first Discworld novel that he was happy with, because it was the first one where the plot didn't exist to further the jokes. The plot itself is important. It's also kind of a cult classic amongst people who love the Discworld. In fact, I don't know if you knew this Nigel for a while the creators and directors of the princess in the frog, the Disney adaptation, we're going to make a morte animated series. That's actually what they wanted to do. Yeah, so more It was almost a Disney property. Why which is wild to me. It is also coming off of equal rights, which wasn't as successful of a novel but this is considered one of the early classics of the Discworld. There has however been a stage production and a comic book adaptation. I think it's called like more the big comic or something like that. So in this book, mort is an unwieldy and overly enthusiastic teenager who is unsuited to his family's farming business. His family attempts to get him an apprenticeship, but the only person who shows up to the apprenticeship fair is a living skeleton with a cowl and a safe death. Of course, death takes more to his realm where he meets Depp's adopted daughter Isabel, and his crusty Butler Albert. After many weeks of mucking out deaths, horses stall and watching death assist to those who have died towards their own personal after life. Death decides to take a night off and more is finally given the chance to step in and do the job himself. Only things don't go quite as planned. And reality itself might now be unraveling. That's my best I feel like that was pretty good right? Did I miss anything in my setup there? Nigel 3:56 No, I feel like that's a fairly like you know good light intro into what more it is. Tessa 4:01 Yeah, I'm sure we're gonna talk about spoilers for sure. But that's like a pretty good like, basic intro into what this book what the premise of the book is. So this is the first Discworld novel that you have read since you read the Tiffany Aching ones when you were 15 How did what was your first reaction what's your first sort of take on this novel or Nigel 4:21 first? Like my first impression was like, This is good. Tessa 4:27 Well, good. Nigel 4:28 I'm a sucker for first lines and novels and like the way the the way of Pratchett like sets more off with the first slide this is the bright candlelit room where the lifetimes are stored shelf upon shelf of them squat our glasses, one for every living person pouring their fine sand from their future into the past. That's good. But it also like you know, it sets up really what what dad was meant to do in in the desk world and stuff. So it's not just like As you know, it's not just ornamental for ornamental sake. Tessa 5:03 Well, I love how that first line just like jumps into the action like it's not. We will read Terry Pratchett books later where he kind of goes the more traditional fantasy route where he's like, this is the greatest tuin and you know, sailing through space and you know, long ago and that kind of thing. But this is very, like, quick and to the point of like, here we are in the middle of the lifetime or room, you know, this is death. This is what's happening, which I appreciate, Nigel 5:29 huh? Yeah, so it like it really sets up. It really sets up this vibe. As an English student, I'm legally allowed to describe something as being Tessa 5:41 legal right? Nigel 5:42 You have what it is a vibe? Yeah, Tessa 5:44 yeah, it is a vibe. Like I can't, I Nigel 5:46 can't get employed with my degree. So I'm just gonna vibe. Tessa 5:49 I mean, I If I had to describe the Discworld, that might be one word that I would use is that it has a real vibe. I don't know if I could necessarily describe to you what that vibe is all the time. But it is a real vibe. Let's just let's just start with the basics. Let's start by talking about Unknown Speaker 6:06 death. Who is Tessa 6:09 I mean, this book is called mort. And we can laugh a little bit about the wordplay there, right? More tis means death, right? It is. It's sort of like the more Latin French, like word for death. And so there's sort of a play on words there. But death is really like the central figure of this work. Even though mort is the main character technically, what what did you think about this version of the Grim Reaper? Nigel 6:36 I'm struggling for words that not because I don't like I do, but it's just very hard to like, quantify. Especially because, like, you know, I have very little experience, touching base as it were, with this death, you know what I mean? Cuz it's like, on the one hand, he's sort of like, the force, which is death, because mort kind of adopts that later on in the book, sometimes it can be your, like, very typical, like booming voice from the gods, you know, we're, you know, he's like, like, all of the plagues on you, if you don't get out of the shop, that moment, but then at the same time, he's like, this is my horse, Binky. So he's a good character. He's a good character. And I want to know more. Tessa 7:25 I guess this is like the first real time again, like he shows up in some of the earlier books. But this is the first time that we get this real look at this character that he gets to really do anything more than just like, show up and, you know, Usher someone into the afterlife. I really just rereading more I really was struck by how much this character fills the role of like, almost like a Spock or a data, like they're trying to understand humanity, but they don't quite get it right, especially data, I guess, if you're a next generation fan, like this idea of like, he's not human, but he's fascinated by humans. And he wants to understand them, because he's so like, adjacent to them all the time. And he sort of goes on this journey in the novel, where he, he really wants more as an apprentice so he can take some nights off, which I mean, I feel like that should have a union if he can't take a night off every once in a while. And he goes on this journey where he really wants to understand humanity. But again, he just can't quite get there. He can like do the motions, but he doesn't understand it, which I thought was really interesting. Nigel 8:44 Yeah, it feels odd to come in with this quote at the very start, but it's one that like, struck me because like I said, I was reading it was on my lunch break at work. So I'm in like, you know, a quiet little middle office on my own and I got my lunchbox and I'm eating. There is no restraint on spoilers. Yeah, so we can just go in wherever we want when we want. So like, so I'm just gonna jump into like page 229 of the book, where it's like, death is working in a kitchen. Um, it's like time is not important. So this is an interaction between him and the cook hamburger. You say? Right. harga decided not to argue. While you're doing a damn fine job in there, boy, he said. What is it called when you feel warm and content and wish things would stay that way? I guess you'd call it happiness set harga. Inside the tiny cramped kitchen, Stratford with the grease of decades death spawn and world chopping, slicing and frying his skillet flashed through the fettered steam. He'd opened the door to the cold night air and a dozen neighborhood cats had strolled in attracted by the bowls of milk and meat, some of hargus best if he'd known that had been strategically placed around the floor. Occasionally, just would pause in his work and scratch one of them behind the ears. And this is where it changes from the old capitals of death to just regular writing. Happiness, he said, and puzzled at the sound of his own voice. Tessa 10:13 Yeah, I love I love that scene. I think that that's like very like in this book. It's just very interesting. And we could talk about the mechanics of the capitals versus not capitals. By the way, you do a great depth impression, I just want to compliment you on your reading skills here. Nigel 10:30 I'm sort of repurposing my archivist voice from the Magnus archives, where it's like, I kind of have two deep voices, which is Jonathan Sims from the Magnus archives who's very like, like that. That's the register, like hello. And then there's Nick, Nick, from Hello from the hollow woods, who speaks like I am in a shed like that. So Tessa 10:56 like, the all capital thing that death does is I mean, it's a thing that continues throughout the entire, you know, that's part of his characters. He speaks in all caps. And in fact, in some books, that's the only way you can really identify him is that it'll just be a figure that's an identified but since he's speaking in all caps, you know that he's that he's deaf. But yeah, I always imagined Nigel 11:17 that's a fun little way of doing East dragon. Oh, yeah. Tessa 11:21 I mean, death isn't every single Discworld book, like he at least, makes an appearance at least once in every Discworld book, which I just think is so interesting. And I think it says something also about the character, as well. But yeah, I the the scene where he's like, trying to understand human emotions, and yeah, where he's like, what is this feeling where it's like warm inside. I think that that's fascinating. And his thing with cats, makes me laugh every single time. Like, he is so obsessed with cats and cats, or it's cats and wizards are the only people cats, wizards and witches are the only people who can see him for what he is, which I just find fascinating. Nigel 12:05 I think that's hilarious, where it's like, like at the job fair. At the start, we're hit like more status talking to him. And he's like, he can't grasp the name of death because he's, you know, he's perceiving him as something else. And he's like, Mister, mister, and then we'll just continue on his sentence. Like he's just briefly buffered. You know, that he's like, Oh, you know, you go fire in your job. What do you you know, like, what do you work as, and he's just hearing whatever he needs to hear to get more to be his apprentice. Tessa 12:37 It kind of reminds me of Doctor Who the the paper thing that he has, I can't remember what it's called. It's like sentiment paper. Oh, thank you. Yeah, where he's just like, it's just whatever they need to see, like, whatever credentials that they need to see to let the doctor do whatever he needs to do. It's just there. It's just like that. But I think that that's really important to understanding Pratchett's work is that this idea that humans will sort of filter out whatever it is, that doesn't seem that doesn't fit into their preconceptions of the world. And in this case, it's literal, right? It's not just like, Oh, well, we'll just ignore the things that don't make sense to us. It's like you are being confronted by the Grim Reaper, like the symbol of the end of life, but because he can't possibly be real, you actually cannot perceive him. And so he like, there's all these like hilarious jokes, where he's just making his way like through crowds, and people don't get out of his way. They're just not in his way. Because he can't possibly exist, which I think is I think that's a such a really interesting concept. Nigel 13:46 Yeah, like, I mean, we've had a lot of those. I like I don't want to give Lovecraft any more credit than is necessary. But that's kind of the name for that brand of like, supernatural stuff like lovecraftian horrors, you know what I mean? where it's like, our mind can't wrap around what they physically are, like, in the case of Lovecraft, or even, it's true for him in Stephen King's it, where it's like, we can't comprehend it. So our brain needs to dumb it down to like, you know, something which looks like a spider, in the case of it, where it's like, what was death, it's like, we just can't, there's no analog. And, you know, that we can come up with, for what death is. Tessa 14:34 Right. And I think it's also fascinating the implication that part like the most important part of the witches and wizards training, as it were, is to see the things that are actually there. It's not just like learning magic, or you know, wearing a pointy hat, although there's a lot of jokes about that, but it's like you, the most important part of your training is to learn how to Not filter things out through your own preconceptions to see what is actually in front of you. Which is why a lot of wizards and witches can see death. And cats apparently cats just automatically do that they don't even need training. Nigel 15:16 I think it's because cats give very little, like very little shits about the world around them. Yeah, Tessa 15:23 no fucks given. Nigel 15:24 So anything, anything preternatural is treated with the same casual disinterest as a regular human for a cat that that's how I'm justifying it in my head. Tessa 15:35 Yeah, that totally makes sense. there's a there's a scene in Coraline by Neil Gaiman, where she Coraline is in like the the other world. And the GATT, who, there's this cat that was like hanging around her house, and the cat is in the other world as well. And it starts talking to her and she's like, wait, so how do you travel between worlds? How can you talk here, and the cat just gives, like, looks at her and goes, because I'm a cat. Like, that's like the only explanation that's given and I feel like that that's so true, though. Like of all the animals that would travel between dimensions and, and just give no explanation as to why it would be a cat. It's just part of their nature. Nigel 16:20 Yeah. It's like, like Neil Gaiman handshake emoji. Terry Pratchett loving cat Tessa 16:27 Yes, so many cat jokes, so many cat characters to But yeah, I just every time death shows up in the real world, there's always a cat around or cat rubbing up against him. There's a really sad scene at the beginning where, you know, cat death has to come and, you know, take a couple of kittens who have been drowned, you know, and he's like, really angry about it. Like he's more angry about the cat's being like killed than he is about like, ushering people into the afterlife, which I think is really, that's just such a, it tells you so much about death as a character. Nigel 17:06 Yeah, like, it'd be easy to fall into like the trap of, of moralizing with a book as death with death as the protagonist, or, you know, main focal point because really more is the protagonist, even though no one why is that no one No one calls more by his name. So it's boy. Yeah, it's always boy or you or when, like, lad, he's been so yeah, he always he spends the whole book, correcting people out like, he nearly becomes like a Pokemon. We're like, most of his sentences just start off with like, more. Like, you know, you imagine him saying in a Squirtle voice? Um, why is that, you Tessa 17:53 know, I think I just had a revelation and we can, we should, we should actually talk about more as a character as well. So one of the big three lines of this novel, is that more as he becomes the apprentice of death, and as he starts fulfilling the duties of death, he starts to become death in a lot of ways or a death. Like he starts to like his eyes start to glow blue, he starts to speak in all capitals as well in certain circumstances. And the idea is, is that if you fulfill the role of death, if you do deaths, duties, you start to take on that like significance and that magic and that, you know, role of belief. And it's presented in the book as a tragedy, or not really a tragedy but as a dangerous threat, because what remembers what it's like to be human. So even though death is trying to become human, or trying to understand humans, the idea is that he's much more dispassionate and much more removed from humanity which makes him a better death as opposed to mort who is starting to take on this role. Who could be cruel, right who could you know who could try to make moralistic judgments at which would upset like space time continuum and so on. So that's sort of this running theme and I almost wonder because mort is the name mort is a play on death. It is you know, it means death. I wonder if that's part of why they can't remember his name. Because there's this idea of like, we already have a death and you're not death. You're the boy you're you're the lad and then as like the book goes on. He like keeps insisting he is more as he becomes death. Does that make any sense? Did anything out of that ramble mean anything to you? Nigel 19:40 That does, especially because like when you consider the princess Holly? Yeah, like, you know, she's meant, yeah, she's meant to be dead. She's met and the universe believes She's dead. But she's not because more fumbled with the sword and killed the assassin right? Yeah right? So you have you have these kind of like characters on parallel paths who the universe refuses to accept you know, because they're like oh, we're gonna have a coronation but no one in the nation like know why they're having it reminds me of and Welcome to Night Vale this character called the man in the tan jacket who no one can remember his face or anything about him like you know, he'll talk to you and stuff. But you'll you'll forget it straight away, which you know, it's kind of like a classic trope, but they go into it in the first novel, The first novel is kind of like solving the mystery of the man in the tan jacket. And there's a town called King city in it where it's like we're having an election for Mayor but we've forgotten that we actually already have a mayor so we go to the polling booths and we go to cast our ballots and we find that we have a mare on why did we know this before? Tessa 20:58 Yeah, like it's interesting the way that the unit like reality and time are really played with in this novel as well it to me It reminded me of the Stephen King novel 1122 63 like the ways in which like it's very difficult to change time and to change reality because time wants to be a certain way like it wants certain things to happen or or you know, there's like a shape that time needs to like adhere to and to change that shape is incredibly difficult because time will actually sort of fight back against you. And that's kind of what's happening in this novel with Kelly Nigel 21:44 Yeah, well I mean, yeah, and then as you get to the end, like Jeff has more apparel at his wedding Tessa 21:50 but the alternate reality where it's like you know, Nigel 21:54 yeah, like the like the pressure of this timeline got so big that it crystallized these possibilities into a pearl and this will eventually be like you know, the birth of a new world or however however it's put Yeah, I Tessa 22:10 put the timeline that's I think that's important. Nigel 22:12 If the flash has taught me anything, it's Don't fuck with Tessa 22:17 there's a episode of the I think it might actually be arrow where something has changed and Oliver's first reaction is like, what did you do Barry and Barry's like, it's not me. It wasn't my fault. But yeah, I don't fuck with the timeline. It's really important. I also love how Kelly who's meant to be dead. Like Has she hires cut? Well, the wizard to be her royal recognizer, which is like, a great joke. Like his whole job is to tell people that she exists. Like she's Queen of this country. Nigel 22:51 Sometimes. Yeah, sometimes. Sometimes. I feel like I need a person. Like the Royal right tell people that you exist, you know? Yeah, sometimes there's a or something. Maybe they'll they'll tell me that I Tessa 23:07 yeah, yeah. Just like you exist. You're real. You're not dead. Yeah, you are here. Yeah. It's important Nigel 23:15 that like, I mean, I have I have Twitter for that. But like Twitter's not exactly the best place even though it is the sort of the modern equivalent to a town square where you would go and get an apprenticeship with death. Yeah, Tessa 23:25 yeah. I'm sure death has a Twitter, right. I mean, he probably doesn't know how to use it. But he has one Nigel 23:31 probably like, yeah, like, I mean, Washington has a Twitter. Yeah, like, I mean, I'm trying to I'm scrolling back through my tweets, just to find one where it's like, it does have that energy. Yeah, Hello, I am drinking a seven. Oh, and I am with my friend. Oh, no, hold on. Yeah. Hello, I am drinking a seven and I am with my friends. And we are playing cards. And my friends are also beautiful. And the earth may keep turning, but we're here in this moment. Probably just Tessa 23:58 pure poetry to tweet. Nigel 24:01 But yeah, no. I think I said that, like five o'clock in the Tessa 24:05 morning that really has the energy of a five o'clock in the morning tweet for sure. But yeah, you just need a quick cut well to respond and be like, Oh, yeah, yes, you exist. Like just like a response to your tweet. Yeah. Or, or maybe he retweets Nigel 24:21 someone should make a someone should make a watchmaker like a bot like you know, those ones that just like every Saturday, they'll just retweet the clip from Toy Story to where it's like, where I was like, I have to drive to work all the way to work on a Saturday. Tessa 24:43 Yeah, my dad is the one that every Friday tweets, the tweets, Daniel Craig introducing the weekend on SNL where he's like, ladies and gentlemen, yeah, the weekend. It's my favorite. Yeah, this weekend. Yeah, the Royal recognizer just goes around and Like, post affirmations on people's on people's tweets, I love it. Let's talk about more as a character because obviously, even though like this is part of the depth series mort is the main character of this book, the books obviously named after him. What did you think of more as the character? Nigel 25:19 I feel like more Hmm, I'm not sure and this could be just like the fact that I read it so quickly and maybe like glossed over a lot of nuance. Maybe because like, like Terry Pratchett packs a lot into the book a lot into all of his books as well. But I feel like more isn't necessarily an unfinished character or if he is I feel like it's by choice that like as the narrative goes on, it fills in with the you know, the energy that is death. So like at the start, you kind of don't really know anything, he's like, you know, he doesn't want to work on his family's farm. Okay, that's it and he just goes on like mux out some stables for a while, he had a bit of a boring character to start off where Tessa 26:09 this is where I think he fits into the classic fantasy narrative because this character, at least at the beginning, reminds me a lot of just like, like, like brand at the beginning of Wheel of Time, or, you know, just these characters. These are usually male characters who are, you know, in a rural area, and they're just doing their thing, but they're kind of boring. And they're, you know, they're just there. He's enthusiastic, but nobody really wants him because he's too enthusiastic. He's kind of gangly, right. He's a redhead. He's tall, you know, that kind of thing. You know, it's it's, Nigel 26:47 yeah, or like, I can't remember his name the, the male protagonists of the bike. belgariad Yeah. David eddings. It's like the closest thing I've seen to, to more I guess in traditional fantasy Tessa 27:01 to go outside of traditional fantasy Luke Skywalker at the beginning of a new hope like it's fairy like. Nigel 27:08 I'll take your word. Tessa 27:10 Star Wars I keep forgetting that's a different podcast, but I Nigel 27:15 Oh, no, I will never watch Star Wars at this stage. Like it's too funny. It's too funny that like the only one I've seen I've seen Tessa 27:23 your your commitment to this your your commitment to this bit is admirable, like, you're just like, I will never watch Star Wars just to be funny. Yeah, I love it. So yeah, like, I just I feel like more is just like, every teenager, male protagonist of a fantasy series at the beginning of the series, like, like he is just like this stock character, which seems very purposeful, right? Like this idea that he's like, almost an empty vessel that can be filled with Nigel 27:57 death. Yeah, yeah. I like it, you know, because this is the this is the fourth Discworld book. So we're not too far removed from the color of magic, which is deliberately parodying sword and sorcery type books. So it makes sense if, if more is deliberately created at the start to be like a parody of these types of protagonists? Tessa 28:24 Yeah, I just he is kind of, he's not my favorite character in this surprisingly, even though much of it is told from his perspective. I do like the jokes later when he starts being able to walk through walls, because that's a big death thing, right, is that he can like walk through walls, because he's more real than the rest of the world around him. And so more as he's taking on more of these responsibilities and starts being able to do more of these powers, I love the bits where he's just like walking through things that everybody is like, freaking out that he's able to do this, but he doesn't even realize that he's doing it, which I think is very funny. And it's played very well. Nigel 29:02 Yeah. And then when the tables are turned, where it's like, is this. This is a real wall, right? Yeah. Tessa 29:09 This is a real one. Yeah. are cut Well, like I suggest you find a very thin wall, or maybe a door. Yeah, there's there's some very funny funny moments in there to the other. When you brought up the thing where they never say his name to this time around when I was reading it, especially with the character of Isabel who is death's daughter, or her his adopted daughter. She the way that she calls him boy a lot and just kind of her general attitude of like you're an outsider or an interloper, or like she obviously see, the way she treats him is very classist in some ways. It's very like, Nigel 29:52 Can I guess where this is going? Tessa 29:54 Yes, please. Nigel 29:56 Is it a Princess Bride type thing you're going for it. No although Tessa 30:00 there is a little bit of that in there I hadn't thought about it but there is Yeah, boy yeah I was actually thinking great expectations were a Stella is constantly calling PIP boy oh yeah and she's Nigel 30:14 the deep cut with the dig with Dickens. Tessa 30:16 Yeah yeah that's actually what this really reminded me of was the boy you know type of Estella especially because like they're in like this very Gothic house, because that's realm exists outside of space and time, but he made like this house, it's all like blacks and purples. And, you know, she's alone. And I think that, you know, she's perpetually 16 she's been 16 for 37 years, right? And that's like a big a big part of her character. But she, she definitely treats him especially for the first half of the novel very much like that disdainful. Like I belong here and you don't type of Nigel 30:55 Yeah, type of attitude. I will counter that with though and it's not like pulling you up on your Dickens knowledge it's like to do with you know, like, it's to do with what the book is about where it's like, Stalingrad expectations is bred to be cruel. by Miss Havisham. She had bred to be a weapon, you know, to slight men because Miss Havisham was jilted at the wedding altar. Whereas like, death, I don't think there's a cruel bone in death's body, you know what I mean? No, not at all. It's like yeah, like he'd never raised someone to be that way. And so it's just kind of like her own thing. So I feel like she differs with Stella on that because like I mean, you know, they say later on no one gets pardon for living like you know, you got to live your life however, it is good or bad. Yeah, and you know, no one is going to excuse the things that you do only you Tessa 31:55 right and a big thing in the book too is the whole idea of there isn't death you know says there's several times there is no justice there's just me right like this idea of like he doesn't get to judge who did wrong who did right who lived their life good who lived their life bad it's just death right at the end everybody just dies and that's just that's his job. And so I there is sort of that relationship where he's not cruel but he's not kind but he's not cruel either. He just is and the The only thing that I really wish that we got more of because we don't get this in any of the other books is we don't really know what kind of father death was to Isabel like, there is sort of like these jokes in there about how he doesn't really know how to talk to her or he makes these assumptions about her that aren't necessarily true. But we don't actually get to see very much of the parent child relationship between them. Nigel 32:54 Yeah, like I mean, it seemed at the start that like, you know, Albert was going to be kind of like the governor type figure. You know, like the In Home kind of nanny in that way. And then this, like, you know, because Albert makes the food because death doesn't eat but he you know, he'll make up like sausages and eggs, fry them up for whoever wants them. And that's at least the character that he's created that he's initially presented as, but at the same time, he doesn't feel like he's a father figure Tessa 33:27 is about right, she kind of gives off this incredible loneliness for a lot of old novel, which I found I didn't I don't think I noticed that the first time I read it, because I think I was more focused on more and death. But she is like, an incredibly lonely character. Nigel 33:46 Yeah, I had a weird, I had a weird thought with the you know, she's been 16 for 37 years, where it's like, she'd really love her. Drew Livia, Rodrigo was like, you know, cuz because in brutal she's like, I'm so sick of 17 where's my fucking teenage dream? where it's like, you know, his adult would love to be anything other than 16. Yeah, she's sort of someone tells me one more time, enjoy your youth. I'm going to cry. Tessa 34:17 Yeah, she's kind of stuck there, you know, at 16. She's like in this adolescent stage, and all she could do is read about other people's lives. And so she has this really like fucked up view of what love is because all she has is like, the stories about great lovers that are clearly like, modeled off of things like Romeo and Juliet and you know, Cleopatra and Marc Anthony and that kind of thing. So I find that very sad actually, like Could you imagine like, those are the only types of things that you can read. Yeah. And that's what I think is supposed to be. Yeah, Nigel 34:54 that's a fun like, if that's what you think life is supposed to be. That's sort of brings in a lot of, I don't know, like Rapunzel type narratives where you've got a person who's raised away from the rest of the world with kind of going back to a style in great expectations. Or it's like this person, their entire worldview is shaped by one person, and what their worldview is. where it's like, you know, Rapunzel is taught to fear outsiders, by Mother groffle. That kind of thing. But it you know, she's just reading it from books and from the inner thoughts of people's lives. Tessa 35:31 Right, the book room, the biographies of people that write themselves as they live, I thought was a really interesting concept because you have the book room, and you have the lifetime a room in death's abode. And this is not the last time that we will see either of these rooms. Nigel 35:48 Well, in terms of lifetime is one of the things I really really enjoyed was like one more was off collecting the souls and he goes and meets the monk, and he's like, trying to collect your soul. And the monk is like, No, I've got a season ticket. And you know, because of reincarnation, which I think is a really funny way to like, do that. Because, you know, a lot of books will like deal with reincarnation and life after death in a very kind of like, metaphysical way. And they'll, they'll say, like, oh, there's a bright blinding life and all that kind of thing, where it's just like, Nah, there's a guy who shows up on a horse, and it's like, you know, he can be like, he's got a sword. And this kind of thing. Tessa 36:33 Yeah. Binky as a character, I think is interesting, too, because obviously, he is a horse and a real horse, which I find very funny that they, Terry Pratchett puts a lot of emphasis on the fact that Binky is a real horse. Not a horse of flames, not a ghost tours, like a real horse. But obviously, Binky Binky almost has more power than anyone else in this in this novel, and I don't know if it's because he is deaths horse. So it's kind of like, you know, if you do the job of death, you sort of become death. If you do the job of deaths horse, you become deaths horse, but Binky, you know, Binky gets people where they need to go right? And he kind of knows where they're supposed to go. So even though like war isn't telling him, we have to go to this place at this time. Like he just has the life timers, and Binky just goes, which I think is really interesting. Nigel 37:25 Yeah, Pinky. Well, like I mean, most things can travel faster than disk flight. But Binky can travel faster than disk. Like, Tessa 37:32 right? Pinky, his pinky is fast, he can fly. Right? You can carry like four people on his back. Which happens at one point, he's not happy about it. Nigel 37:43 But no, he's rather than just crumpled about it. Tessa 37:46 Right? I just I love Pinky. Pinky is a great recurring Nigel 37:50 character. Hmm. But with the with the biography room? Did they raise an interesting question, at least for me, it's like if you were in that room, and you had access to all these books, because death, like mentions it to mourn at the end, where it's like more never felt any kind of inclination to look at his book. You know, it never once occurred to him to find out how his life was going, how it was going to end. That kind of thing. Tessa 38:17 How many pages are left, right? Nigel 38:20 Yeah, yeah, he never once possessed him, like, he looks at Albert's book. And they find that that he was planning to, like, knock the ladder out from underneath them while they were on it. But it sort of posed an interesting thought experiment. If you were in this infinite kind of room with a book of everyone's lives. And you knew yours was there, would you go and look for it? Would you read it? If it had how your life was going to end? on whatever? How many pages were left? Would you? Would you read it? Tessa 38:50 Me personally? No, I would not read it because I think I think we're actually given the answer to why you shouldn't read it, which is actually Albert, the idea that he knew how much time he had left. And so he was willing to do anything to stop his demise. But I guess we also get the opposite, because we get the witch who death goes to collect who knows exactly when she's gonna die. And she just uses that last day to get her life in order. So I don't know, arguments on both sides of this. Hmm. Nigel 39:23 But as well, like, I don't know whether I would or not, I feel like I'm a bit nosy. But also I don't care enough. So I feel like if I was placed in a room with infinite books of infinite lives with infinite time, I would read them all. Because I need something to do. Well, yeah. So at some stage, I get to my life. Tessa 39:42 At that point, you just have to finish the list, right? Like, you can't just leave one book on Nigel 39:47 read. Yeah, like I'd probably like if I came across it, I'd sit it down on the floor and be like, okay, that's the last book and then I you know, I feel like I wouldn't have the self control in that situation. Not to read my own book, you have to finish the list. Yeah, a lot of people would, I think, would say, Oh, I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't want to find out how I die and this kind of thing. And I feel like, that's a lot of that answer. If you if you took a survey of like, hundreds of people across history, the answer of Oh, I wouldn't want to find out how I died. If I were given the chance is only an answer. That is shared by people from like, the 1970s. onwards, like 1970s, at the earliest. I think that's because of pop culture, and stories they've told about people who have found out how they died and things have happened. And, like, obviously, you've got things like Faust, or Dr. Faustus, where he, you know, like, he makes a deal with the devil and he's given a certain amount of time. And the ending is quite literally like a clock counting down. But like, you know, if you if you said to like a king in the 15th century, being like, you want to know he died? He's like, Yeah, sure. I feel like only modern people would would try and say, they wouldn't find out. Tessa 41:13 I guess that's fair. And I guess if you did no, and you weren't, if you weren't like Albert, or Dr. Faust, if you were more like the witch, for I'm trying to remember her name, I think it's like, I don't know, would they never come back to this character? She's just an example. But like, if you were more like the witch, I guess it would, it would be kind of freeing somehow, like this idea that if you know, when you're gonna die, and you know that you can't resist it, you can't change anything about it. Then why would you work at a boring desk job? You know what I mean? Like, like, why would you participate in capitalism? Or you know what I mean? Like you would you would be like, no, like, this is the time I have left like, I, I'm not I'm going to go live my life the way do what I want to do. That could be a very freeing thing Nigel 42:03 for some people. Yeah, like, if I knew the world was going to add, like, soon. I don't know whether a tele for people. I also don't know whether people would listen to me. But I'd be like, I'm gonna get my shit in order. I'm gonna, like, live in a field. I'm gonna, like, you know, live my best life because it does not matter. Right? Exactly. And I don't want to be, I don't want to be too nihilistic. When I say doesn't matter, but like, in this situation of a roomful of infinite books in a space, which exists outside of time and space. It doesn't. Yeah, Tessa 42:38 I think that's part of the way that this, the mechanics of this place work, right? Isabelle says, what passes here isn't really time, right? It's just stuff happens. But it's not it doesn't have like consequences. It's not. It's not causal in the same way that time is, which I find to be fascinating again. Yeah. So what did you think about the twist with Albert, who was actually Alberto Malik, the founder of Einstein university, Nigel 43:10 I feel like maybe the twist would have landed more if I had, like, more investment in the unseen Academy because like, you know, when he goes back to the real world, like rinse wind is there. So you got the you know, you've got the crossover with rinse wins books, where he calls it like, rinse thing. And Tessa 43:30 yeah, I was wondering if you'd notice that the the easter egg for red swint. Nigel 43:34 Yeah. Like rincewind is there and he has to like set a bar tab, which has been slowly accruing interest over however many years it's been since he stepped outside of time. Like, I think I enjoyed him more when he was just kind of like the kindly old man stereotype. Again, I think maybe it's just because I don't have as much I'm not as well versed in the unseen Academy. I don't know whether the legend of Alberto Malik plays into those books a bit more, but it certainly seems like you know, there's a statue of him, Tessa 44:06 right, which all the students have defaced at one time or another. So they think that he's come back is like some sort of revenge for like, all the times that they defaced the statue. Nigel 44:17 Yeah, but it's like, sometimes sometimes it's good to deface the statue or fuck with it right? Because at least in Trinity there's a statue of one of our previous Provost his name was George salmon and he was like the promise from it was around the turn of the 20th century I don't remember the exact dates but he's like promised for 10 years or whatever. He he was very sexist and it's a famous quote of his that's like Over my dead body. Will women go to this college? And so of course, we built the statue of him for of course fucking reason. Yeah, right. So there's a statue of him on front square sitting on a chair, and now it's tradition whenever any women graduate. They take a photo I'm kind of like, you know, flip office statue or whatever. Yeah, like Richard and George. Yeah, people will put like, you know, traffic cones on his head, things like that. It was really funny as well, because this year, our we elected a provost, the leader of the Students Union and sort of like, Union at the student accommodation, and they were all women. And the official like social media post celebrating, it was like, we hope George salmon is rolling in his grave, is what it said, Tessa 45:30 nice rolling in his grave. Well, I mean, I feel like this would kind of be like if he came back in the place where a statue is because even though the wit other wizards are like, like, the whole point is that Albert has been gone for 2000 years. And so he comes back. And of course, he's like, we're gonna go back to the way things used to be and none of the wizards want that. Like they all just want. They all just want him to leave, which I think is hilarious. So it's kind of it's kind of similar in some ways. Nigel 46:03 Yeah. where it's like, we got to do you know, he's like, we've got to do this ritual to summon death, and it's like, Yeah. Or we don't like anyone who's read Neil Gaiman's. Yeah, anyone who's read Neil Gaiman's Sandman, as well knows how difficult just how difficult it is to do a ritual to someone and trap deaf. Tessa 46:27 Yeah, very difficult, you might get the wrong person. In fact, that almost happens in more, because when he does the ritual to summon death, mort is almost the person who gets trapped. Really, it's just Isabelle who saves. Yeah. Right? by punching him. classic, classic, you got to punch people to save them. Sometimes. Nigel 46:47 I was just gonna say like in my hair, academia, Deku is plunging to his death. And Erica just reaches out and slaps him across the face to use her powers. But yeah, percussive maintenance sometimes does work. Tessa 47:01 percussive maintenance, I really enjoy that. Speaking of percussive maintenance, what do you think about the romance in this novel? Nigel 47:11 I'm going to be honest with you, I didn't care for it. I didn't care for it in the sense that like, I don't care for an awful lot of romance. In fiction. Well, I mean, like, love stories, I don't mean like romance fiction, as it was a capital or I just like, it does not appeal to me. I don't feel it's genuine. Like, I don't know, like I don't. There's very few pieces of media where it's like, I'm engaged in this romantic relationship, and I believe it's real. And one of the few ones that, you know, it's like chidi and Alan are in the good place. where it's like, that's kind of believable. I don't know. Like, it's not that I'm a romantic and you know, don't like, can't engage with it. It's just, I don't know it feels false. And also, like, a lot of the time they're like, let's stop the action and do a kiss Allah, Pirates of the Caribbean, where they're trying to battle on Davy Jones's ship and they get married, but it was the least in the romance quadrangle was the least interesting part of more for me. Tessa 48:21 Yeah, I don't really feel like there's enough development of the Isabel and more relationship for their eventual romance at the end of the novel to make sense. Like there's this really weird fake out because he's really pining after Kelly for most of the book. There's a wedding at the end, and we think it's going to be Kelly and Ward, but it turns out to be more than Isabel's wedding, like more than Isabel are now together and they're now at Duke and Duchess and it just doesn't it Yeah, like you said it doesn't really ring believable in that way. Even though as we will see their romance is actually really important to a character in later books. Nigel 49:03 Yeah, this also really weird the way they wrap it up because it's so true, like at the wedding and we don't know for a while, who's marrying who and jatha even as like I thought you'd marry Kelly and it's like no, no, we can't just like go in and marry a princess straightaway where it's like you know, that's a fun little cheeky bet at the end but at the same time it kind of goes well what's the point of the will they won't they romance quadrangle if you're just gonna be like, well, he couldn't have married or anyway for because reasons. Tessa 49:36 Alright, so we see really two different locations, while three different locations. In this book, we see the ram tops were mortise from su dopplers, which is where Kelly is, and of course, more pork. What do you think of the world building in this novel, Nigel. Nigel 49:53 I really liked the world building and like I mean, the Roundhouse feels like we were discussing earlier, like Kind of every, like, you know, it's the Shire archetype, where this has to be some sort of unassuming place in the countryside where the hero needs to rise up from because greatness from small beginnings, that kind of thing. So I was like, you know, I wasn't too, like, push about, like, you know, I was like this is exactly what I would expect from a place where the hero of the story is coming from, at least how it's presented and more. Feel free to like, disagree with me on this. Tessa 50:33 I don't disagree, please continue. Nigel 50:35 But it's like, this is my impression of the ram tops and more. I thought ank more pork was really good. That was probably like my favorite location outside of Jeff's house. Yeah, we're like, I mean, as well, we haven't really touched on it as much like the footnotes. Tessa 50:52 I have a gag about the footnotes for the end of the podcast. But yeah, let's talk about the footnotes because footnotes are a huge part of Terry Pratchett's humor slash narrative voice. Nigel 51:03 I thought the footnotes were pretty funny and like they do a good bit of the world building and more. I'm thinking particularly of like, when they're talking about the court and the Vizier at one stage where it's like, you know, like he has a footnote and in that footnote, you've got another footnote, which it's like, you know, the only thing I've seen that happen in his house of leaves, which is a really bizarre comparison to draw between Terry Pratchett and positive leaves because I think they they exist on like, opposite ends of the literary enjoyment spectrum, where it's like, both of them are crammed packed with things for you to unpack and references and stuff. But Terry Pratchett is a very, like, accessible thing. You can go in and read it really quickly if you want and you know, like, it's like reading whereas House of leaves is arcane. It's abstruse. Tessa 52:00 Yeah, this actually reminds me a lot of the footnotes. I obviously read this much later than I read Terry Pratchett, but I it kind of reminds me too, of the footnotes from Jonathan strange and Mr. Norrell, the book by Susanna Clarke, she also realized it again, it's a very different genre. She's doing something that's completely different from what Terry Pratchett is doing. But she relies a lot on sort of those footnotes. And she has very, she has very intense footnotes. Like, there are some footnotes the footnotes are almost longer than the actual page that they're quoting. Nigel 52:34 Like, I haven't read Jonathan strange and Mr. Norrell yet, but it is something it is a piece of media that I intend on consuming on like Star Wars. Like the one with the the court in the Vizier where it's like, it's like, it fills out the world building in cases where, like, the story doesn't have time, but Terry Pratchett's like, you want to know some fun facts about the sun Emperor. And it's like, you know, the stone garden of universal peace and simplicity laid out to the orders of the old, old Emperor, one son mirror, and this is the point where the footnote in the footnote begins. So you go to that footnote, and it's like, whose other claim to fame was his habit of cutting off his enemies, lips and legs, and then promising them their freedom if they could run through the city playing a trumpet? Which, Tessa 53:22 yeah, and the contrast between those two footnotes works really well Nigel 53:26 on is like, Oh, look at how great one stone mirror is. And then it's like, oh, he was kind of he was kind of a bastard. Tessa 53:32 Right? Exactly. Like on the one hand, it's peace and harmony, and then it's cutting Nigel 53:36 to be very, like, yeah, love the type punishment. Yeah, Tessa 53:41 I mean, I believe that the footnotes they they do a lot of world building, but there's also a lot of jokes in the footnotes as well. Because the other thing we haven't really talked about is that part of Terry Pratchett's Nayar narrative voice is that even though he's building a fantasy world that is completely removed from our real world, he makes a lot of real world references. Like he talks about at one point he talks about how more here's this like screeching sound of like the books writing themselves, and it compares it to sitting next to someone who's listening to music on a Walkman. A Walkman is not First of all, that's a very 80s thing to say. But second of all, it a Walkman is not part of the disc world like you're not going to find characters with Walkmans on this. In the disc world, you're just not like they're not running around listening to music in this way. But the narrator seems to be omniscient to the point where they can make these references from our world to in order to help you understand what's happening in the fantasy world. Yeah, Nigel 54:50 like the mean don't they say on stage Discworld is just like a parallel world tires, right? Tessa 54:57 Yeah, there's a lot of comparisons being Nigel 54:59 Yeah, so In that way, it nearly feels like Terry Pratchett is kind of like the Rod Serling of this world where, you know, like, you know, we've entered the twilight zone where all what's, what's the quote that they say at the end or at the start of every episode of Twilight Zone, you're traveling through another dimension, a dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind a journey into a wondrous land whose boundaries are that of imagination. That's a signpost up ahead, your next stop the Twilight Zone, things like that, where it's like, that applies equally well to the desk world as it does The Twilight Zone, you know? Tessa 55:38 Yeah, I feel like a lot of these characters are very recognizable, but they're in situations that are completely unrecognizable. So yeah, it does have that Twilight Zone feel to it. Nigel 55:52 Like another analog to how the Discworld functions like you, you liken it to Star Trek, which I haven't seen either, so I'll take your word for that. But it's like, one that I would draw would be it's like, you know, an anthology show, or like when you know, one of those old like Tales from the Crypt Tales from the dark side, kind of like EC comics things. Where are like creep show, right? There is no one where it's like, each book would be an episode where it's like, they all kind of have the same thru line. And some of the characters are the same, but they're all doing their own little things. Tessa 56:28 Yeah, it is kind of episodic in that way, which is another reason that I will just say, you can read these books in any order, like you, they they are not, for the most part, I was wrong about one thing and hyper fixations, I did say there were no cliffhangers, that's not technically true. Because color of magic, technically, color of magic and light fantastic really should be read together, which we will read them because there is sort of a cliffhanger at the end of color of magic. But as far as the rest of them go, you can really read them in any order, because they work almost like a television show where they're reintroducing you to the characters and sort of the world at the beginning of each. Except for the fact that you will probably be a little spoiled, just as far as character through lines if you read them out of order. So that's something to think about, I Nigel 57:19 guess. Yeah, that makes sense. Like, I don't know, I haven't really read any Discworld I haven't really read any of the ones who is so this is like, basically we're going to call this my first Discworld experience because I am now a person with discerning tastes still omnivorous. But like I like in what content I consume, but like, you know, I have some measure of taste. We're like, you know, what things are good and what things are bad, but it's like, Tessa 57:49 a gentle person with a refined taste, Nigel 57:51 but it's like, I don't know, I find that really annoying when books do that sometimes where it's like, it's kind of one of the few things that annoyed me about like, a series of unfortunate events, which is one of my favorite series of all time, but they kind of do spend a lot of time reintroducing you to things you already know. I'm where it's like, it doesn't make sense in that series. Where it's like it's a series of 13 books you're gonna like follow them sequentially, because there's a plot whereas like, jack Reacher books can get away with it because like, who really cares about the over arching plot of jack Reacher? Tessa 58:31 Right? I wouldn't say there's an overall arching plot as much as there are character developments that happen so like death as a character. Things happened to him that affect his character later in later books. You could read those books without knowing those things. But the character that you're reading about is essentially a later version of the character Nigel 58:54 Yeah, yeah no no what I was saying was just it does not make sense in a book which is like strictly you need to read these books in this order. Like A Series of Unfortunate Events it's like I know like just read that book. Like when you're I just read Netflix and it gives you the previously on it's like Yes, I've been watching this for three hours. Tessa 59:13 What if there was a skip that option for books like on Netflix you just hit the like skip the intro, and it takes you straight to the episode? What if they had that but for like books like Series of Unfortunate Events, like skip the Nigel 59:25 I don't know whether I do it because I enjoy reading all of the things. So I'd reread it and also like in the case of a series of unfortunate events, Lemony Snicket voice is very distinctive. So even when he's telling you things you already know, at least it's like, injected with some degree of like, awareness is kind of the it's the first option I thought or like, example I thought of because it's a clear example and I can also see a copy of the reptile room on the floor of my shed. So That's why I CS department. But yeah, I don't know. Tessa 1:00:03 Alright, come to listen to at odds book club where our references are based on what Nigel can see on the floor of their shed. Nigel 1:00:11 Yeah, well, I mean, it's only on the floor of my shed because I have not put it on to a table or other receptacle. There's, there's a lot of tables in life that there's three tables and a desk and a set of bookshelves. Tessa 1:00:28 Yeah, I have a I have a confession to make. I have never read any of the series of unfortunate event books. I saw. Nigel 1:00:38 We're gonna do another pot. Tessa 1:00:40 How many of those are there like there's 1330 Nigel 1:00:43 there. They're only like, again, 300 pages of the maximum. So like hi perfect. Your episode of hyper fixations was a foot in the door for 90 dogs book club. And now this episode, this part of this episode will be a foot in the door for our series of unfortunate as podcast. Tessa 1:01:04 It's a podcast nesting doll. That's Nigel 1:01:10 a series of unfortunate events contains so many like literary allusions and actually, like, swing this by the horns back to Pratchett. It's so chock full of like references to things in a series of unfortunate events that you need to like, be clued into, to get them but it doesn't spoil your understanding of the text where it's like, there's a character in it in it called resume squalor. I'm like, that's a reference to like, like not well known JD Salinger book because like if I said to you, named JD Salinger book you would say Catcher in the Rye. Yeah, like you would not say to as made with love and squalor. Tessa 1:01:56 No, no, I would not. Mainly because I didn't like Catcher in the Rye. So I never read anymore. Nigel 1:02:00 I didn't I didn't particularly like Catcher in the Rye either. I like I like the bits work talked about ducks. I did like that. But yes. So I guess, I guess Series of Unfortunate Events is kind of like the same mold of like, chock full of references, although in this case, it's mainly like literary and philosophical. But it also has a really strong authorial voice. Tessa 1:02:29 Yeah, Pratchett's more egalitarian, I guess in their pop culture references because it's very, like, you get movies, books, television shows, a realistic events, right? Like he mentioned several things in here that actually happened, you know, like actual figures that he's sort of parroting off of. He's very, he's very well versed in pop culture, you can kind of tell from these books. Nigel 1:02:56 Yeah, you get the sense that like, this is a person who's traveled a lot, or at least seen a lot of things. Tessa 1:03:03 Right? Yeah, that is definitely part of the narrative, The Omniscient narrative voice of this, which the narrator is basically their own character writing these books, which I think it's very I always love that when the narrator has like a distinct voice. Nigel 1:03:17 Yeah. Where you've got to, like, parse through what's I don't know, like the textual voice and what's the authorial voice? That's a very hard word for me to say. authorial real. Yeah, yeah, authorial because I was listening to an episode of off menu where I can't remember what word it was, but it was very hard for James a caster to say, because of his accent, but yeah, that words because like, My mouth is like, putting or sounds there, like are three of them. And that's been I have to be like notes on three or four real Tessa 1:03:59 authorial now. Now I know it sounds strange to me, because I've said it so many times. It's like, when you say a word, and it's that you actually think about it. And it sounds strange, because you've never actually thought about it as a word before. Nigel 1:04:12 Off. Yes, oriel. Yes. Tessa 1:04:17 All right. So I think this is a good place to move towards the end of the episode. So I would like to do a little roundup here at the end of our episodes for important Discworld important Discworld facts for the novel. I'll call it something snazzier when I think of it, but I would like to for every novel we do I want to talk about the best death sighting which is a little redundant for this book. Because this book is part of the death series, is the first sighting of death happens on the very first page. So that's not particularly surprising. The first footnote, it's a late one for Terry Pratchett. It occurs at least in my version of the novel on page 99. So it's took almost 100 pages for the first footnote to show up, although they start coming hard and fast after that, but I personally my favorite footnote, best footnote for me happens on page 137. Which is the footnote about how no matter what, it's part of the cosmic design of the universe that no matter what is in your your larder, or your pantry during the day, if you go there at night, there's always just a half jar of elderly Manny's a piece of very old cheese and a tomato with white mold growing on it. That was my personally that was my favorite footnote. Did you have a favorite footnote? Nigel? Nigel 1:05:36 I did. I'm trying to I'm trying to find it now. Tessa 1:05:41 I should have told you we were doing this before we recorded surprise. Nigel 1:05:48 Here it is. PAGE 276 of my novel work or my my novel No, my version of the novel, where it's like in the Great Hall of the unseen University everything happened at once footnote. This is not precisely true. It is generally agreed by philosophers that the shortest time in which everything can happen is 1000 billion years. And I don't know why I really liked that. It just it's stuck with me a lot more and like I really appreciate the footnote about things traveling faster than disk light on the one about Emperor ones on mirror. But I don't know the one that one hasn't billion years. One just sort of clinches that for me. Tessa 1:06:28 That one's pretty good one. I mean, all the footnotes are good that those are just two standout ones, for sure. And then what's the thing that made you laugh out loud? Nigel 1:06:39 I think I think like I'm gonna have to go with a very early one. Which is like just because it kind of came out of nowhere where it's like death it's between death and more their act you know, they go to Anke more pork where it's like, it's beautiful, said more softly. What is it? The sun is under the disk said death. Is it like this every night? Every night said death. Nature's like that. Doesn't anyone know me? You the Gods good is it? Gosh, definitely and over the saddle and looked down at the kingdoms of the world. I don't know about you, he said, but I could murder a curry. Tessa 1:07:26 That is a good one. That is classic death right there. So you laughed out loud. It wasn't at work since it was early. Nigel 1:07:33 I have a problem with this. Because I'm constantly consuming media work on my lunch break, I read. And while I'm on the floor, I constantly have an ear, like an earphone in listening to podcasts that's like, you know, eight hours of podcasts a day. I'm like, you know, I just have to like, try and not laugh out loud because I look more demented than I do normally. Tessa 1:08:00 My my father has hearing aids that he uses for for much similar purpose issue. And he said that sometimes he actually holds his phone up, even though he doesn't need it. So people will think that he's talking to someone instead of just talking to himself, because no one can see his hearing aids. But yeah, so for me, the thing that made me laugh out loud, which really disturbed my partner because I was just reading as as they were falling asleep and and I definitely like woke them up a little bit was the it's in my version. It's on page 106. And I will try to do my best my best death voice. It won't be as good as yours. But it's it's a it's a transition where they're talking. We're Kelly's talking to cut well, and then it transitions to it a scene with death. And so yes, Kelly says, you're going to remind everyone I'm alive. It's very simple. There's three square meals a day and your laundry done step lively man, Royal, You're a wizard, I think there's something you ought to notice that the princess there is said death. That was a cinematic trick adapted for print that wasn't actually talking to the princess. He was actually in his study talking to mort, but it was quite effective, wasn't it? It's probably called a fast dissolve or her cross cut zoom or something. In industry where a senior technician is called a best boy might call that anything. I laughed so hard. I had forgotten that joke and found it for the first time. And obviously this is a good example of that narrative voice we were talking about. But the idea of using like a smash cut in a novel, just it makes me laugh so hard and then calling your attention to it. And then the part that actually made me giggle was the part where the senior technician is called the best boy, Nigel 1:09:50 because that's so funny. I like watching the credits of movies to find out who's the best boy it's like who is the best boy for Fast and Furious eight and it's like I don't want to engage with the Fast and Furious franchise as someone who values sanity but at the same time I need to know who the best boy was but that transition happens again later on where the our glasses are falling off of the shelves while more fights death I've it's like it's it's kind of hilarious because it's like they happen to be in like very specific positions to like what's happening to their our classes which is funny like one falls off of the thing and it's called and so the person in real life falls off of a cliff and then is caught by a tree and it's like, you know, how convenient Is it like did they spit like you know, it's a very cinematic thing where it's like convenience Tessa 1:10:52 right but yeah, it does have a cinematic quality to it in portions which we will continue to see as we read the log and then lastly, what's the one thing that made you think like that kind of puts you off into a philosophical thought Nigel 1:11:07 I've mentioned both of them already but death in the kitchen asking what is this feeling and being told it's happiness and then this problem my second like number two number one is no one is pardoned for living Tessa 1:11:22 Yeah, I also mentioned mine as well the there is no justice there's just me which I just think is such an interesting line and way of characterizing that character while also making you think about death in general as a concept Yeah, he he's the supreme arbiter Okay, so that's, that's mort, do you have anything else you want to add to before we we close the book as it were on board, at least for now? Nigel 1:11:52 I would, I would like perhaps maybe to wrap up the episode by reading. If I can find it, or more reads his own book. Yes, please. You can say your thing and then I'll try and find the specific. Tessa 1:12:09 Okay, yeah, so I was gonna ask you where people could find you online and on their headphones. Nigel 1:12:15 People can find me on Twitter at spicy Nigel where I sometimes tweet about the Fast and Furious franchise or the boss baby franchise or any number of franchises really people can be found on tik tok where I make tic tocs about astrology I've made one. I can also be found most recently on eo three. Under spicy nijat where I've started posting fanfic about a podcast I listen to. So that's that for As for my podcasts, you can find archive admirers on Twitter, admirers archive or on Tumblr. Archive admirers at hyper fixations hyper fixations p on Twitter, or hyper fixations pod on Instagram. Tessa 1:13:00 Please visit all of those places to find Nigel online and please leave some leave some comments on their social media. Please recognize them. It is clearly very important. Nigel 1:13:12 Nice comments, please. Tessa 1:13:15 Yeah, nice comments only only nice recognitions. Nigel 1:13:18 Yes, Tessa, where can people find you? Tessa 1:13:22 You can find me on Twitter and Instagram and letterboxed at suela Tessa Swehla is spelled sw EH la. You can also find me on my other podcast monkey off my backlog. We're on Twitter and Instagram at monkey backlog. You can find nanny augs book club on twitter at nannies book club and on Instagram at nanny augs book club. You can also email us at nanny augs book club@gmail.com. Please rate review and subscribe on iTunes. Follow us on Spotify, Stitcher, Amazon podcast, Google podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. And now it's time for a reading by Nigel Nigel 1:14:03 there was another thing said death. He reached under his robe again and pulled out an oblong shape in expertly wrapped and tied with strength. It's for you. He said personally, you never showed any interest in it before. Did you think it didn't exist? More of unwrap the packet and realized he was holding a small leather bound book. The spine was blocked and shiny gold leaf the one word mort Heath backwards through the unfilled pages until he found the little trail of ink winding patiently down the page and read more Chuck the book with a little snap that sounded in the silence like the crack of creation and smiled on easily. There's a lot of pages still to fill. He said how much sand Have I got left on the Isabel said that since you turn the glass over that means I shall die when I'm you have sufficient set depth coldly. Mathematics isn't all it's cracked up to be. How do you feel about being invited to christenings? I think not. I wasn't cut out to be a father and certainly not a granddad. I haven't got the right kind of knees. He put down his wineglass and nodded that more. My regards to your good lady, he said. And now I really must be off for you. Sure. You're welcome to stay. It's nice to have you to say so. But Judy Coles, he extended a bony hand. You know how it is? more grip the hand and shook it ignoring the chill. Look. He said. If ever you want a few days off, you know if if you'd like a holiday, money thanks for the offer. sadef graciously. I shall think about it most seriously. And now. Goodbye, said more. I was surprised to find a lump in his throat. It's such an unpleasant word, isn't it? Quite so just grin because, as has so often been remarked he didn't have much option, but possibly he meant at this time. I prefer a revoir, he said. The End Transcribed by https://otter.ai