Doug Truax: Welcome to the First Right podcast. A weekly conservative news show brought to you by Restoration PAC. I'm Doug Truax, founder, and president of Restoration PAC. Today is our great blessing to have one of the most talented conservatives we've ever had on the podcast, Andrew Klavan. Andrew's a prolific best-selling author of fiction and non-fiction books. He's also a screenwriter, an essayist, and a podcaster on the popular The Daily Wire platform. All right, Andrew, welcome to the show. Thanks for coming on.

Andrew Klavan: That's great to be here. Thanks.

DT: So I would consider you the classic high functioning human. You have to book after book it's, you've got full-time jobs, SAS, podcaster, you know what, tell us about how you, how you managed all this. Where do you find the time to do all of these things?

AK: You know, when I was a kid, I was a big fan of Raymond Chandler. He had a big effect on my life and on my work. And one of the things that Raymond Chandler great, great American mystery writer, obviously, and one of the things he wrote about, he said that you should, a writers should give four hours a day when he does nothing but write. And he said, you don't have to write, but you can't do anything else. Uh, and I took that advice very seriously when I was 14 years old. And I started doing that, uh, every day, whether I was in school or not, or whatever else I was doing. Uh, and it, it actually gave me a lot of discipline. And so I maintain that throughout my entire life. I wake up very early in the morning and I don't sleep much. And, uh, and I get to work and for four hours, at least I don't do anything but write. And, uh, that has worked out very well for me.

DT: Wow. Well that explains it then. But you would have to like what you just said though, you don't get a lot of sleep too, so you gotta be, you gotta be prepared for that side of it too, but that's the old, uh, the Malcolm Gladwell, right? 10,000 hours, you do four hours a day. You're going to get to 10,000 pretty quick. And so you're, you're good at what you do obviously, and that's, that's a huge contributing factor. That's amazing. That's amazing. Yeah,

AK: No, it really has worked out well.

DT: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So, um, so culture, so you do a lot of commentary on the culture. It's, it's, uh, it's one of my favorite topics because I think it's the, I think it's the most important thing that's happening now and this, and this age that we're in. I think I know for, for my generation, I think we kind of took a lot of it for granted growing up, especially politically and just how things were kind of steady for decades. And now it's, it's all up in the air. And so talk, talk to you, what's your take on the culture now and, and how do you, uh, give advice to conservatives on how to, how to deal with the situation we're in and what's the best thing they can be doing at this point?

AK: Well, the culture is really in a low point. And when I say that I'm talking about the arts, but also I think the general culture, which is the way we live and the things we think, and those things are related. Uh, the, the woke revolution has destroyed the movies, publishing, music. Uh, I think that right, it's very hard to find anything that's worthwhile, especially if it's made by young people. Uh, they now have staffing rules in Hollywood where you have to have 40 to 50% minorities in the room. Uh, no everybody is afraid to speak their minds to say what they really think. You know, you can just be canceled like that. And so what you're getting is this very stale, imitation culture. It's not really the arts at all. And the grand days we had for awhile, uh, the golden age of TV that we had when we have the Sopranos and the Shield and The Wire, and one great show after another, uh, those days are gone and they're not going to come back until, uh, we on the right start to contribute to the culture and start to compete.
We're not going to change their minds. We're not going to change their business. We've got to start building our own businesses and compete. And the problem that conservatives have with the culture with the arts a lot of times is they don't understand the conservative art doesn't look like conservative life. I live a conservative life by my happily, married, devoted husband, devoted family guy, hard worker, as you said, all those things, but nobody wants to read about that. That's not what makes a story. A story is Macbeth. The story is murder. A story is adultery. A story is, is the things that we do that expose the human heart and those make for exciting stories. And also for, uh, stories of depth. If every story is going to be a sort of Christian candy land, uh, where everything works out well, because we have faith. And even if you die, you go straight to heaven is great.
We're not going to be able to make good art. We're not going to be able to make art. That looks like life. The founders of this country, we're not watching Doris Day movies. They were reading Medea, they were reading Shakespeare. They were reading Sophocles. And that's how they had that deep, deep knowledge of the human heart that helped them to build a system in which our sins could actually work in our favor because we had all these power structures fighting with one another. So conservatives have got to loosen up. They've got to understand that the arts are not a place of certainty. They're a place of experimentation of culture criticism, uh, of all the things that the arts have always done, because if we don't contribute to the arts, and if we don't show people the reality of who people are, this continual drum beat, uh, that we can change our, our, uh, sex that we might just by thinking, uh, that we, that there is no moral order, uh, that there's no moral life, that there's no penalty for crossing the moral boundaries. All those things at the left have been selling for 50 or 60 years are going to become what people think is true and it's going to be ruinous.

DT: Oh, and that's a great point. You made about this concept of, if we're going to get involved in this, there's, there's certain battles we're not going to win. Like in terms of people, we're not going to convince, you said that it's like, you have to recognize that we just have to get into it. And it's not the end. All of like one day, everybody's going to say, oh, you guys were right. And we're all going to change. You have to participate. Right. And, and, and that point that you made this a really great point about the founders recognize, obviously we live in a fallen world. And so you have to take that into account. You can, it's all going to be, you know, rainbows, butterflies all the time, no matter what you do. And so you have to be prepared for that and live in it.

AK: Conservatives, know this when they're watching old stuff, because conservatives by nature, like old stuff. So if they're watching King Lear and the guy's eyes are put out on stage, they don't even blink. But if they're watching the Sopranos and they say, why all the bad language and violence well, because it's dealing with mobsters and that's the way they are. And that's going to tell us more about the human heart than a Doris Day movie.

DT: You're making me feel a lot better. Yeah, absolutely. You're making, yeah. Right, right. You're making me feel a lot better about watching Breaking Bad twice, you know? Well, I'm from New Mexico. So I kinda, I relate to the whole thing too. So, so, uh, you're, you're this prolific writer, uh, lots of fiction. And non-fiction, so just talk us through in your four hours a day or more, how does that work flow? Uh, what does it look like when you're doing fiction versus nonfiction? What speak to that difference there?


AK: Well, usually what I try to do is I try to do different parts of a project at a time. So if I'm writing a one thing, I might research something else because it's just too much to write through through an eight hour day. Uh, and, and, you know, I love writing fiction let last year, I guess it was because of the lockdown. All my speeches and appointments were canceled. And I actually wrote two short books, but two books nonetheless, and one was non-fiction and one was fiction and the nonfiction was just completely immersive. Uh, it was a very, very powerful, spiritual experience. It was a book about, uh, you know, reading poetry and the gospels, and that's going to come out in April, it's called The Truth and Beauty, and that's going to come out. And then the other book was just so much fun. I love writing fiction. I love telling stories. I love writing the crime novels that I write. And so there is a kind of different energy to it. Um, I have to usually do some very, very big rewrites on my non-fiction. I have a tendency to throw every idea on the table. Uh, my wife comes in, rolls her eyes and just cuts out half the book most of the time. Uh, whereas with fiction, I've gotten a little bit more expert over the years. I've done a lot of it. Uh, and I can usually get nail it pretty quickly. Uh, and, or at least know that I've gone off the rails. So it is very different. It's very different. I love them both, but it's, it's, it's slower to do nonfiction because of all the research involved

DT: Well, and you got the, you got the wife factor. You gotta go that comes in and says, no, we're not. Don't do that.

AK: I have the best writers wife youre supposed to have . They have to be without her, without her. I would be living in a dumpster.

DT: Yeah. Maybe next podcast we'll have her on instead of you. We're good. We'll get it. We'll bring, We'll bring her in for sure. So, all right. Um, so, uh, this book, I haven't, I, I must confess I haven't read it, but it's, uh, so I'm a follower of Jesus. So you're the blessed of the most blessed of all people in my mind, a messianic Jew. So you've got this book, uh, The Great Good Thing: A secular Jew comes to Faith in Christ. So love to hear about that, how it was received, the story there.

AK: Oh, it's been, it's been a wonderful, wonderful experience. It came out, I don't know, six or seven years ago, and it's still selling quite well. I'm still getting, um, a lot of people who call me and say, write me and say that it has moved them to seek for God in a new way. And I think one of the things that's so appealing to people about it is it's a 35 year journey. I was 49 when I came to Christ. And so I, I went down every possible false road. You can go down at sometime, you know, finding God made me so happy and finding Christ, made me so joyful. I sometimes turn to God kind of accusingly and said, why did you let me take so long? I know I'm a Jew, but why did I have to wander 40 years in the wilderness before you brought me into the promised land? And I think the reason that he wanted to do that, he wanted me to explore every wrong philosophy. And I think that it has been very moving to people because they see themselves. And it's so funny because I get letters all the time from people who say, you know, our lives are exactly the same, you know, I'm from Minnesota and I grew up a Presbyterian and you're from the east coast and you grew up a Jew, but our lives were exactly the same. And I think that that's the effect of, of having done so much wrong, uh, that anybody can recognize, uh, my path and their path. And, and it's been really gratifying to have that happen.

DT: Yeah. That's wonderful. And that comment you made about why did it take so long that prayer? I was, I was 31 when I came to Christ and I've kind of same thing. Uh, but I also know, you know, you read how God dealt with the Jews and, you know, and Deuteronomy that, Hey, you wandered for 40 years, but you didn't, you didn't, uh, your feet, didn't swell. You, your sandals didn't wear out. You didn't go hungry. So isn't it the same kind of thing that you look back and you think God made all these mistakes, but God was still taking care of you along the way.

AK: You know, one of the strangest things that happened when I finished my memoir The Great Good Thing was I looked at it and I thought, oh, like, God was so obviously they're almost present. I mean, there were tons, there were people whose names were Christian who moved in here and just all, all throughout, there was all this kind of a messaging going on. I didn't see it all until the book. And I thought like, oh, what an idiot? You know, he's, you know, he's kind of slapping me around. Well, what is that? I don't know. But it's, it's a lot more obvious in retrospect.

DT: That's great. That's great. That's good to hear. Well, uh, it sounds like a great book. I'm definitely gonna take a run at it. Um, okay. So, uh, COVID and the handling of this crazy pandemic it's been, you know, you were talking a minute ago about how so much got canceled in your life last year. And, uh, you know, hopefully we're getting to a place where we're moving on, but, uh, you know, speak to your overall impressions of the pandemic. And then, uh, especially the angle of, do you think we were too compliant in general as we went through this?

AK: Yes. I mean, you know, I think it took us by surprise in the sense that when it started, we didn't know anything, you know, and when you don't know anything, that's very frightening. We know there can be a terrible, a plague and people can die and especially vulnerable people can die. So at first, when they said they were talking about 15 days, uh, to make sure that the hospitals don't over get overwhelmed and that all made sense to me, I was not worried about that. Friends of mine said to me, you know, once you give the government that kind of power, then never give it back. They were right. I was wrong. We should have worried right away, the constant, constant drum beat of fear, uh, that, especially from the news media, which has just been absolutely shameful. And one of the most moments with the news media to my mind was when Trump, uh, got sick and he came out and he said, look, don't be afraid.
Don't let it dominate your life. All the news people were like, that's a horrible thing to say, of course you should be afraid. Of course you should let it dominate your life. Well, no, no, this is not it. You know, like there are, you know, death is there for us all. We're all gonna die. Nobody wants to die. Nobody wants to die now, but you have to live. You have to live. I just stopped after a while I retired from the pandemic. Uh, I got my vaccine vaccines. I believe in the vaccines. I don't believe in mandates, but I do believe that the vaccines were a good thing. And then I thought I'm done. I'm just done. And in that time I saw my grandson take his first steps. I saw, uh, you know, my, I went to my son's engagement party. I saw all these things that were life to me.
And to tell me I should've missed those because I might get sick is to tell me that there's nothing more to life than being alive and that's insane. And so what I'm really disappointed in two things, I'm disappointed in the number of Americans who are not just hiding behind their masks and indoors, but are insisting that everybody else hide too, insisting that somehow it's selfish to live your life. I'm really disappointed in them. And I am super disappointed. I got to tell you. I'm super disappointed in the church. And when I say that, I mean the mystical church, I'm, I'm disappointed in the churches that shut down that said the government had the right to tell them not to worship, um, disappointed, especially for Catholics, by the way, who depend on getting the body and blood of Jesus Christ from their priest. Uh, you know, they just went home. They just went home and it was as if they, they themselves did not believe in the things that they were preaching. And I was really disappointed in that. And I think that it has revealed a lot of weakness, a lot of fear, a lot of materialistic assumptions that if we die everything's over and therefore life, you know, is the only thing there is. Um, it's been, it's been, uh, a sad incident. And the one thing that has saved us in this country is federalism. Uh, the fact that Ron DeSantis can run a country, run a state, uh, with common sense while New York goes down the drain. And that is just a good, that's the experiment, the laboratory of freedom, where we can see what works and what doesn't.

DT: And that's why we're not Australia. Thankfully you've watched because I mean, that's what happens. It's like a state and they got complete control. Um, I couldn't agree more too, on that comment you were making about the, about the church. And I, one of the things I talked to friends about, and also pastors, as well as letting the government encroach way too much on the church, just in general, you know, you get the, you know, everybody's afraid for their 5 0 1 C3 status. Now, uh, Christian schools, we had some of this going on right here, where we are outside of Chicago, where it's like, well, the Christian schools, they didn't, they didn't play along exactly with mask mandates and everything else. And so immediately the state is like, well, we're going to pull your accreditation and all this stuff. So we have this extreme mixing now in different ways of the church and the government. And I think it was on full display when the government says everybody, including the churches, you got to do this. And they just went along with it. It was, I agree with you. It's very disappointing.

AK: It really was. And it made you feel, I mean, what we believe in is supernatural in the sense that there's nature. And then there's something above nature where the moral universe is taking place. And it was as if they just ceased to believe in that. And it ceased to see themselves as outside the world, as something, as an alternative to the world. And I think that that's the effect of power. I think that the church in this country had power for so long that they got used to it. Uh, they want to be relevant. I go by churches that have black lives matter signs and gay pride signs up there. And my feeling about that is, Hey, believe whatever you want to believe, but do not tell me that the latest political movement is what the gospels are all about. Uh, you know, just, you can believe you can have any politics you want, but do not tell me that the gospels, uh, are endorsing that political stance, because that is not offering an alternative to the world. That's becoming the world. And I fear very much that many, many, many American churches have done that.

DT: Yeah. It's the becomes the crossover into that relevancy. Like what you're talking about, which is oftentimes code for a, we got to grow the church and we've got to get more money in here. And, you know, uh, I just say, you know, do what God wants you to do. He'll grow it. If, if he wants it to grow,

AK: That's bingo.

DT: Stick to the plan, stick to the plan. So, um, so you got your Friday podcast on Daily Wire. The Andrew Klavan show. So you, I would say you're not the garden variety conservative with talking points, you know, you've got your own style and everything. So just talk us through how you would describe your podcast and, and you know, the format and how you, how you get your enjoyment out of doing it the way you do it.

AK: Yeah, no, I love doing it especially now. And now it's once a week, it's, it's been much more, uh, I think it's a really rich show. I, you know, I'm really pleased with, with what I'm doing. What I try to do is I try to take a look at the, the gray areas and the big, the big picture I I'm not into. Uh, you know, I make fun of the left all the time, and now they've gotten so crazy. They're easy to make fun of, but I'm not making fun of the people who vote for Democrats. I understand that they have their choices and they have their points of view. And it's only serves the powerful for us to hate one, another black and white men and women, gays and straight. It only serves the powerful, if we're at each other's throats and Americans are so much more tolerant and so much more open-minded than our news media, our academies and our politicians.
So what I try to do is just put everything in a real life context. Uh, yeah. Uh, is there a right and wrong? Yes, but is everything black and white? Uh, are we always on the right side? Is everything we think, right? No. And do we need to be angry all the time? No, we don't. So I try to look at things. Uh, first of all, I try to point out the things are kind of hilarious. I mean, you know, the corruption is, is funny in a way, because, uh, the human, we were made to be like the angels, but we're such clowns that it's kind of like, you know, watching history is like watching a guy in a tuxedo fall into a mud bottle. It's just funny, you know? And so I try and keep that, that, uh, very much in the forefront. I always say we're laughing our way through the fall of the Republic, but I also try to remind people that it's not enough to point out that the other guy is a jerk.
You have to be saying something, you have to be offering a vision of life. It doesn't have to be a plan. It doesn't have to be a bill. Doesn't have to be a law. It has to be a vision of how it, what it means to live and what it means to live in love and what it means to live in joy. Because if, if politics is going to make you angry all the time, if it's just going to make you sour, uh, if, if it's just going to turn you into a, uh, kind of Twitter raving, you know, uh, lunatic don't do it, don't do it. Do something else. Think of something else, because you should be, this is it. This is our life. You know, there's a life to come, but this is the life here. You want to be a joyful. And when I say joyful, I don't mean happy.
Uh, because sometimes sad things happen. What I mean is invested in life and believing in life. Uh, and so that's, that's kind of the thing I'm trying to get across. I talk about the culture. I talk about the arts. I talk about, uh, politics too, but all of it in the context of what your life is supposed to be like, uh, so that sort of the people are just not waking up every day and thinking, you know, I know, I know, you know how conservatives talk conservatives are always saying, it's over, it's done. Forget it. We're done. We're toast. It's finished. And I'm like, yeah. You know, we've been saying that for like almost 300 years now. Maybe not, maybe not. Maybe there's another, another day. Yeah.

DT: Maybe we'll be okay. That's a great point. And I think that you're just calling people back to a place where we used to get to easier. I think that this time we live in with the, with the technological boom, and I always say, we've got to put our phones down and turn the TV off, go back to church, you know, turn back to God. You'll get back to what the reality. And I think that's what you're drawing people to. It's like, Hey, you know, life is not supposed to be this rage machine that you feel all the time. It's just, it's supposed to be some good, lots of good, you know, some, some good, funny moments. And, and, and they're out there. And I, and I like what you're saying too. And, and this is something I've always said about the political side at least, is that when they crossed that Rubicon and they just get ridiculous, it's time to ridicule the policies and, you know, that's what, you're good at that. Right. And that's why like the death of comedy and all that's going on right now, I'm like, oh, no, we can't do that because we have to have this space in here where it's just so great. Once they get to this place, you don't even really have to like, make a policy argument anymore. I mean, it's good to have a good alternative policy, but you can just be like, look at this thing. Let's all ridicule it together and laugh at it together.

AK: And it is, it is really funny. I mean, sometimes I, you know, I, I'm a, I'm a writer, not a performer. So sometimes even when I read my own material on the air, I crack myself up because, because there's so nuts. I mean, there's, so this stuff that they believe, the stuff they're trying to teach our kids, it's so nuts. And I think all of that stuff falls apart in the long run. You just want to fall, it to fall apart sooner rather than later. But yeah, listen, you know, the thing that, the thing about life is sometimes it is tragic sometimes it's great, but it's, it's always beautiful. And I think that you can forget that very easily when you're screaming at the guy across the aisle.

DT: Yeah, that's right. Gift from God. If you're going to live the way he wants you to live, you've got to think about it the right way and live it out daily. Well, Hey, I really admire all your work and it's a lot of work. So like I said, I that's, that's, it's amazing. It's, it's really good at what you do and, and really appreciate you coming on today. We'll keep track of everything that you're doing. Look forward to the next, what was the name of the next book you've got coming out? You said

AK: It's called, it's called The Truth and Beauty. It's out in April. And you can pre-order it now, which is very helpful. If you feel like it's really

DT: We'll do that. We do that. We got, we got podcasts books floating around here a lot, send them out to our friends too. So. All right. Good. Well, thanks so much for coming on Andrew. Really appreciate it.

AK: It's a pleasure. Thanks a lot.

DT: All right. That's our show for today. Thank you so much for tuning in and for supporting conservative media. Don't ever forget that by working together and staying diligent, we conservatives can bring our country back to true greatness until next week. Let's all keep praying that God will continue to bless America

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