Citizen Web3 (00:00.824)
you. Hey, everybody. Welcome to a new episode of the Citizen Web3 Podcast. Today, I have the co-founder of Notedgy Project with me, Dmitry. And Dmitry, hi, welcome to the show.

Dmitry LAIER (00:12.175)
Hi, Sergio. How are you?

Citizen Web3 (00:15.532)
I'm good with them as we said with boy and then men. It's going to be good. I can feel it. Tell me. Tell me all about yourself. What you do. What are you busy with and what is not a G tell him tell me all about it.

Dmitry LAIER (00:19.467)
I don't see what's up.

Citizen Web3 (00:41.604)
He doesn't want to, right? Through the phone. DIMM! I think he'll come through the computer without a camera.

Citizen Web3 (00:53.916)
I think he came through the computer without a camera.

Dmitry LAIER (00:57.683)
Yeah.

Citizen Web3 (01:01.606)
But I think we will have to use the computer. But let's try. I'm going to repeat the question. I'm going to actually do it from the start and let it again. And you know what? You know what? If it's not, we're going to try with the computer because I think it will be might be a problem. Hi, everybody. Welcome to a new episode of the Citizen Web3 Podcast. Today, I have with me the co-founder of Knowledgy Project.

Dmitry LAIER (01:12.293)
Thank you.

Citizen Web3 (01:26.626)
Dmitri, hi, welcome to the show. How are you?

Dmitry LAIER (01:31.364)
What's up, Sergii? How are you? I was excited about this conversation, waiting, and was a little bit stressed, prepared. We'll see how it goes. Let's go.

Citizen Web3 (01:33.639)
Hahaha!

Citizen Web3 (01:40.78)
No, don't be stressed. Please don't you are it's all about the conversation is all about you. You're the star Uh, ah and again, I think yeah the phone thing is not going to work It will not

Citizen Web3 (02:01.24)
We're gonna have to go from the computer without the camera.

Dmitry Laier (02:18.19)
Yeah, one more time.

Dmitry Laier (02:22.129)
Yeah, okay, I already connected from...

Citizen Web3 (02:22.587)
that

Dmitry Laier (02:30.288)
Okay.

Citizen Web3 (02:33.788)
Hi everybody. Welcome to a new episode of Citizen WebTree podcast for everybody who doesn't know this is already a third take of it, but it's still good. We're going to win today. I have with me Dmitry from Notedgy project. Dmitry, hi again. Welcome to the show, man. How are you?

Dmitry Laier (02:48.961)
Hi Sergio, I think today is something wrong with the weather because all the time our connection is cut by somebody.

Citizen Web3 (02:56.932)
We can do it. We can do it. We can do it. I can see, I can see that it's now uploaded, man. I can see this is now the first two times we've been making all those jokes with the much, the much boy and everything else and we bought well, we happen to have a similar geographical connection. But Mitteri not about me, about you, please tell me all about yourself, about what you do right now and what is not the G maybe. And maybe they use story that you started to tell before. I would love to hear it, please.

Dmitry Laier (03:01.662)
I'm out.

Dmitry Laier (03:27.321)
Okay, first of all, I'm an IT guy in IT from 95.

Dmitry Laier (03:38.045)
I was a software developer, then lead, then CTO, then CPO, then start mixing different roles of C-level and in the end at the moment I am co-founder of Node.j My role is like CTO, like CPO, COO, Chief Operation Officer Yeah, and we start realizing this project Yeah, it's like quick note about me

Citizen Web3 (04:06.904)
What is the, how did you get into web trade? How did you, you said IT, but where did blockchain, how did blockchain ruin your life?

Dmitry Laier (04:17.333)
Yeah, okay. First touch was maybe in 2016 when we started our diving center in Portugal, in Lagos. And I tried to buy some bitcoins. I know a little bit what is it at that time and just bought for speculation. It was a good investment after one year. Yeah.

And after that was a long period without any activities with blockchains, web3 and all that type. And in the previous bull run, I started researching all information about the possibility of investment, how it works, deep dive to the technology and get some money.

from this and also lost some money because I don't know some specific things of blockchain worlds like market makers, manipulators, etc. But I got a lot of experience and decided to start on projects because one of the main pain points was the difficulty of not installing because in previous bull market if you not

owner, you can get some airdrops, a lot of interesting rewards from incentivized, it's like a life-changing amount. And I started thinking about it, and in the end we decided to create NodeJ. Our project that allowed to automate deployment, monitoring, and support for secure node management, automatically install your nodes without any technical knowledge, just use some magic buttons and get...

Dmitry Laier (06:09.279)
all rewards that nodes provide to the blockchain world.

Citizen Web3 (06:16.708)
Now, usually when guests, with some guests, I get a little bit deeper into this and I will with you because I have to say, I'm always curious, what motivates the person? I mean, for example, you said, okay, so you were doing IT, you had the conditions around you and your life kind of were building up.

And then suddenly, you know, there was an opportunity with the investment speculation, ta-da-da-da-da. But I mean, internally, was there anything at all that drew you to Web3? Or it was purely like speculation at the time and then, okay, but then to start the project, it takes a lot of courage, right? It takes a lot of internal, I don't know, especially when you don't have...

knowledge of the field and with blockchain, it's so new that it's impossible to have, especially in 2016. So I'm curious, what was the motivation for you? Was it to solve a problem on the market, the pain, or was it anything else?

Dmitry Laier (07:24.422)
My advantage and disadvantage at the same time is the wish to help people solve some problems. I can tell you one story about diving from the side. When I just started diving, it was an advanced scuba diving course of PADI.

Dmitry Laier (07:51.477)
We start dive and group usually have five divers plus instructor. And what happened under the water? I start losing air very quickly and nobody wants to dive with me. After a couple of dives, instructor start talking with me, why you losing the air? What happening? And I say that I'm trying to manage and help to all divers under the water. I start...

trying to control these divers, that diver, don't go down, don't go close to the corals, don't swim your fins because you can touch some other divers, he can lose his mask, etc. And that instructor said to me, Dmitry, please, just forget about any problem and when you go dive, all problems on the shore and you alone under the water. Do you understand? I said, okay. And I used 15 liters tank.

but normal divers use 12 liters. And this 15 liters was not enough for me. And after this conversation, we go under the water and I start breathing slowly. I forget about any problem. And all group used all air and I have half tank of the air. And my instructor show me under the water. Now you can go with this group and I swim more than one hour under the water.

and when I climbed on the boat, I said, so that was your problem. You're trying to help somebody all the time. Encrypto is the same. Sometimes I'm trying to help people solve problem with the nodes, with technical understanding how it works, because here is a lot of scammers, a lot of different scammers, same that can be involved in all this business process.

and I started helping the people. I created my channel, I started writing some small bots, like arbitrage bots, started learning solidity, how to write smart contracts, started researching how all these scams, schemes are working, like Honeypot, etc. But for me personally...

Dmitry Laier (10:15.645)
I would like to get some money also. Help is help, but don't forget about you, as my instructor. That's why I started thinking where is the biggest possibility for life-changing money. It was an incentivized program and not ownership. But to install nodes, here are some problems. For example, you should have a CS administrator or DevOps administrator skills.

Also, you should dive deeper into the blockchain-specific techniques that should be used during node installation. Also, you should all the time monitor Discord or Telegram channels to update software, etc. I talk with my wife because she is also a crypto-addicted person.

have a front-end development background. And we decided that this is an interesting project. And I talked with my partner, explained all the ideas and he said, OK, let's try. And it was the start point for the Node.j.

Citizen Web3 (11:42.206)
Now, oh,

Citizen Web3 (12:02.816)
and some validators, some bigger projects. But the question was the same. And I'm going to ask you that because of what you said, you know, you just told me that, you know, your original, do you think I'm going to get straight to the question? Do you think that what you do today, uh, still solves those issues that you originally started with the idea to solve for other people in Web3? Does it work basically for you inside? Do you feel it?

Dmitry Laier (12:28.245)
Ah.

Dmitry Laier (12:32.317)
It's an interesting question because, again, I should explain some story. Yeah, because the first idea was to install the nodes, get some place in mainnet or in testnet, get incentivized tokens, and sell it on the market. But here we should see how projects...

Citizen Web3 (12:38.652)
Please.

Dmitry Laier (13:00.587)
and investors.

Dmitry Laier (13:05.121)
how to say, develop their strategy to realize the tokens. In previous bull markets they distribute tokens by IDEO, ICO etc. Investors receive their tokens and sell it after some manipulation by the market. And same with the nodes. But after involving of SSEC to the all

strategy start changing. So first idea was make optimization of node installation node process get the tokens and sell it on the market but now it's not working because investment companies blockchains projects changed strategy of token distribution they start doing it from by the nodes

Dmitry Laier (14:03.361)
but they start making very high amount of tokens that are required for the nodes. For example, for Aptas you need to have, I don't remember, about 1 million and something of Aptas. Price of Aptas now is about $9. So 9 million you should have to create the nodes. This barrier allows for customers, regular customers, consumers...

jump to the node business.

So now we need to validate which blockchains allow to install nodes with small amounts of tokens. And also about one year ago, Ledger, this hardware wallet, announced the news that they will share your private key with the third parties.

But Ledger was like a standard de facto for storing your assets. And also we start thinking, what should we do if Ledger will not work and other hardware wallets will not work? So only one possibility to save your tokens is to own your node, because you own your private key. You see it for us. If an Oligdator like Node.gg or P2P or somebody else will go down.

You just easily go to the Block Explorer, run some smart contracts with some parameters and you will get back your tokens. No risk. But when we start researching the blockchains, technically, some projects generate keys during the node installation process. And they know your private key.

Dmitry Laier (16:03.005)
and we start to understand that not all blockchains can be automated trustfully and yeah, we start thinking who is our partner, really our partner and who is not

Oh, yeah, sounds like that. And I forget your first question. I start to explain. Ha ha ha.

Citizen Web3 (16:27.504)
No worries, I'm here, that's my goal. My job is here to help. The question was whether you think, I mean, we went a little bit off it, but it is also an interesting topic that I want to discuss with you about the setups. But the question was whether or not you still think inside of you that what you set out to do, the goal of Notedgy, the original goal of helping people in Web3.

is still working today with what you are doing today with Nodogy? Did it work? Did you do you think you helped people and still helping people with their notes? That's that was the question.

Dmitry Laier (17:05.373)
I'm sure that we do right thing, but I'm not sure how to correctly monetize this story First of all, we should create. Yeah. Yeah, we should create good a good product first and then start thinking about monetization

Citizen Web3 (17:12.424)
That's a different question. Of course. Let me, let me, let me, usually I don't do this. I don't cut out, but this is so dear to my heart that I wanna share with you because it's important. Now Citizen Web 3 is four years old and we're still thinking of perfect solutions sometimes to monetize. So it's not only you, that's what I'm trying to say. It's all good.

What's what? But what is your monetization strategy now?

Dmitry Laier (17:48.127)
Business model is quite simple. It's fee-for-service based model.

Citizen Web3 (17:54.5)
Validator and you started to talk about validator security and about running your keys now It's a very big topic do you currently use for your setups any key management structure devices like whether it's Ubiqui's or whether it's the KMS or whether it's Horcrux Are you currently implementing any of those or is it something that you've been looking into? What's your opinion in generally on those things?

Dmitry Laier (18:24.073)
Yeah, UBK is a good solution, but this question is about my personal assets or about NodeJ.

Citizen Web3 (18:35.133)
No, they do.

Dmitry Laier (18:37.125)
In ODG we don't own your case. We don't need to store any case because we don't know what is your key.

Citizen Web3 (18:47.804)
I'm sorry, I didn't ask the question correctly specifically. I mean, for the, for the nodes you are running yourself as a validator, as not a G do you use any key management structure at all, any key management like Horcrux or, or anything like that.

Dmitry Laier (19:03.473)
We have a YubiKey. We're restoring our keys and that's it. We have limited numbers of people who have access. And what we do, yeah. And also we're using Ledger.

Citizen Web3 (19:16.831)
Mm-hmm. It's an important...

Okay, okay, okay. It's an important question because lately there has been a lot of like, you know, we ourselves as a validator, we have double signed before. And for us, it was a very big incident, of course, and you know, we were looking at how to solve it. And that was one of the solutions we found is to use a split, split key management structure. In general, again, another question.

about you though about your valid- I'm gone, sorry.

Dmitry Laier (19:51.258)
Here is one moment. The biggest risk is to sign some contract, then lose your seed for us or private key. Because usually we are storing it offline, outside of the Internet, etc. But if you will sign some scamy contract, it will drain your tokens.

Yeah, it's more dangerous because Ledger will not protect you from this type of contracts. If you want, you will sign, that's it.

Citizen Web3 (20:24.492)
Yeah. What's about your validators that you're running again for Node.G? I'm curious about what's your opinion about cloud and bare metal? You know, it's a very big topic these days in the validator world. Cloud servers or privately owned bare metal servers. What's your opinion and what do you guys do?

Dmitry Laier (20:50.461)
I prefer clouds because it's easy to migrate, easy to create backups, easy to restore. Baremetal, yeah, it's quite safe, but if something will be broken, your lifetime will go down and it's quite difficult to manage. Yeah, I'm not a fan of baremetal servers. Also, we are using different...

hosting providers. Maybe in the future we will use distributed hosting providers, but at the moment on the market we have only like start-up projects and we'll see.

Citizen Web3 (21:31.576)
Talking about distributed providers, distributed in general, there have been several validators in different ecosystems that are calling themselves somewhat distributed or trying to be distributed validators. They're trying to create DAOs in which they give shares to the owners and sometimes...

It's a bit more than that. Sometimes these owners have to do tasks and to receive shares. What's your opinion on such structures? Is it something that is interesting to see or good for the future or a bit too early? And how do you analogy? Is it just like, for example, because you also have a somewhat different structure, right? So I'm curious. What are your thoughts here?

Dmitry Laier (22:26.099)
I didn't get your question.

Citizen Web3 (22:29.024)
Yeah, I understand. It's not an easy question. So there are a few validators on the market that decided that validators by themselves, as they are structured, aren't perfectly shaped entities for the decentralized world. So what they do is instead of owning, for example, today, if I want to start the validator and calling X, it's going to be my validator, I own the private keys.

And unless I'm hiring anybody else, everything the validator will earn will be my own profit. So there are several validators on the market already today. Yeah, they decided to distribute the ownership of the validator between community people via DAO or via every other tools. I'm curious, what's your opinion on such structures? Because you're also a little bit different in terms of how you approach things.

Dmitry Laier (23:04.951)
Ah, okay.

Dmitry Laier (23:22.376)
Okay, so what I am thinking about current situation with not validators on the market. Yeah.

Citizen Web3 (23:31.729)
No, but okay, we can skip the question. It's not that important. Don't worry about it. It's not... Tell me about how do you guys select chains? How does Nodigy select chains and how do you decide which blockchains you can validate and which ones you cannot validate?

Dmitry Laier (23:49.097)
Usually we try to jump to all the projects. No, we are validating funds. What is the investment amount to the project? Who are the investors? What is the tokenomics? How do they plan to distribute tokens? Will they have some incentivized program for validators? Or maybe another one development incentivized, where we can also participate.

Dmitry Laier (24:18.061)
for how many validators they plan to attract, do we have a chance to jump to the board, and after we start participating in test nets, and after if we feel successful we will go on mainnet.

Citizen Web3 (24:39.692)
And how is today though, tell me like for the people who still are not familiar with what you do, how is knowledge different today? Because the service you guys offer is a little bit different as far as I understand, right? So how does it look for the normal person? They come and how is knowledge different from, I don't know, P2P or Eversteak or anybody else out there on the market?

Dmitry Laier (24:52.855)
Yeah, for sure.

Dmitry Laier (24:58.551)
Mm-hmm.

Dmitry Laier (25:02.865)
Yeah, I made that experiment. Yeah, I just sent some requests to all nodes, Averstake and P2P.org and asked about my personal Ethereum node. I have some tokens I would like to install. Okay, after a couple of days, they start answering me. So please send us a little bit more information about you, blah, blah. How many tokens you have.

then start writing, we will allocate some special manager for you, he will talk and explain what should you do and after you will transfer your tokens and we will install node blah blah. So this is a very long procedure and I was not satisfied but I was happy because our project do absolutely different. We're trying to automate all this process and install node.

couple of minutes, sometimes it takes hours. Yeah. And this is main advantage of Node.GEN. I think...

Citizen Web3 (26:07.856)
How does it look? Talk me through it. Talk with me through it. How does it look? So I come, here I am. My name is Bob. I come to NautiGene. What happens?

Dmitry Laier (26:14.433)
Mm-hmm.

Dmitry Laier (26:18.077)
Okay, you just need to authorize on our platform nodej.com, do it right now. So then you need to top up your balance by USDT, choose your blockchain that you like, press install, pay some fees for node installation and for the server. It depends on performance of the server. After node will be installed, it usually takes

5 minutes, 2 minutes, it depends from the server. And you start delegating tokens to your node. Different blockchains have different paths for what should you do. Sometimes it takes a separate wallet or... Yeah, it's like an algorithm that you should follow to start your node.

We have this instruction, we publish these articles on Medium, also we integrate these articles to our wizard, when you're going step by step, and for example on step number 5 you should transfer tokens from your wallet to the address of your node. Something like that. Yeah. And after this delegation, your node starts working, you can check it in some block explorer. That's it.

Nobody will talk with you, but you can talk with us. You can write and we will answer for sure.

Citizen Web3 (27:39.188)
And do

Citizen Web3 (27:44.164)
and but who will have access to those servers?

Dmitry Laier (27:48.453)
we have access to the server, but we don't have access to your wallet, because it's your private key and we can do anything. For example, if somebody will hack our server, what he can do is stop the server, but he can't take your private key, because you signed it, transaction, and yeah, what he can do is withdraw these tokens to your...

Citizen Web3 (27:59.792)
Mm-hmm.

Dmitry Laier (28:17.841)
address. That's it. So here is minimum risk.

Citizen Web3 (28:24.056)
Reputational damage, I guess, would be the biggest one, because he can double sign.

Dmitry Laier (28:26.104)
Yeah, yeah, but...

Citizen Web3 (28:29.764)
It can double sign for you if he wants to, right? If I guess.

Dmitry Laier (28:34.054)
No, he can't double sign because you have a private key and only you can sign. For example... No, no.

Citizen Web3 (28:38.772)
No, I mean, double sign the validator can double sign the private key of the validator is still in the config file. It's not the private key of your account. It's the private key of the validator. Two different things, right?

Dmitry Laier (28:50.534)
Yeah, you can make a copy. For example, in Ethereum you can create a copy of Node and you can be...

Dmitry Laier (29:02.901)
punished.

Citizen Web3 (29:06.8)
We are talking just the theory I'm staking right now right sorry Dmitry is solo Ethereum or we're talking about all of the other blockchains to

Dmitry Laier (29:13.142)
No, I'm talking about all different types of blockchains. Because we already tried, I don't know, maybe 15 different blockchains.

Citizen Web3 (29:15.269)
Mm-hmm.

End.

Citizen Web3 (29:21.604)
And how does the setup, I'm curious, like for example, what kind of setup does in terms of architecture and node structure does the person get? Can they choose? Like, can they say, I want a validator, I want two sentry nodes, or whatever, I want Horcrux to be involved, or no, it's gonna be a validator node, on it there is gonna be tokens, and they basically validate, right? So it's the simple setup, right? Okay, okay. And out of curiosity,

Dmitry Laier (29:51.026)
The problem is that on the market a lot of investors with the money, but they don't have technical skills. For example, if they would like to hire some DevOps, they should understand which type of DevOps, which skills should have this person, also he should trust this person, because he will delegate a big amount of money, for example. And it's quite difficult.

Our company established in Portugal, we have a theoretical address. You can go to the court and write, okay, this guy stole my money. We are not an anonymous team. Yeah.

Citizen Web3 (30:30.46)
Let me ask you a question, but it's gonna be a very difficult, easy question, but it's gonna be very difficult in terms of philosophy. Now I told you at the beginning, I like to be devil's advocate and I ask difficult questions and I'm very thankful for the guests to answer them. I'm gonna ask you a very difficult question too. So don't you think that the service you offer is actually complete paradox for Web3 because you're bad.

Dmitry Laier (30:34.661)
Okay.

Dmitry Laier (30:45.089)
Mm-hmm.

Citizen Web3 (30:55.944)
Isn't the whole, and again, I'm being devil's advocate here. I have my own opinion on this, but I want to know your opinion. And as far as I understand, as far as you know, blockchain is unconcerned. The whole idea is to create a trustless system and to teach people responsibility. You know, there is a responsibility for keeping your keys. There's a responsibility for doing this. When we offer such a service, isn't that taken away from learning that about responsibility? What's your opinion on this?

Dmitry Laier (30:58.401)
Mm-hmm.

Dmitry Laier (31:25.461)
No, here we are dividing the story into two parts. First part, the technical maintenance of the servers. It's our part. Responsibility of signing any transactions and saving your private keys and ZFRAs, it's yours. Nothing changed. Maybe in some projects in test nets, we will have access to your private key, but on main net, we will never run...

nodes that will allow us to read private key, because we don't need this type of responsibility.

Citizen Web3 (32:02.8)
the private key of the account, right? Not the validator.

Dmitry Laier (32:04.041)
Yeah, yeah, we don't want to know your private key of Citrus.

Citizen Web3 (32:09.744)
And I'm curious, you're on the validators, you're running by yourself back to Nodigy now a little bit. Now, today all validators, they... This is basically one of the reasons, I mean, our show is about four years old. And we used to talk to not as much validators as we do today. Today we talk...

pretty much to just validators. And there is a reason for that. A reason for that, the tools we're building are also for validators and are about validators. But the reason for that is in my private opinion, personal opinion, validators have became probably the most influential entity in blockchain today, since 2017 roughly. Every project has got validators in it. And a lot of the validators I talk to,

They say, hey, we do this or we do that. So for example, Nodigy offers a service, where a white label service, so to speak, where a person can come and start their own node automatically, more or less, right? They have some pluses, some minuses. What other types of similar things, if anything, does Nodigy do today? Or this is your main product and you're only building that product. This is basically the question. Are there any other products that Nodigy offers?

Dmitry Laier (33:28.957)
No, just today we are discussing about possibility to partnership with the government of one country. We will see what will happen. And also all countries think about CBDC. For CBDC they will need nodes. Yeah, it's a good possibility for projects like Node.j or different validators.

Citizen Web3 (33:54.588)
You're not scared to work together with entities that might then decide to take something that you own away from you.

Dmitry Laier (34:07.809)
No, because we provide only technical expertise. If you don't touch your money. That's why I...

Citizen Web3 (34:13.808)
I know I wasn't talking about them. I was talking about the government. I was not talking about people. That's what usually happens. Governments, you know, sometimes they get involved in the business and then they take half of it away because they decided, well, it's time.

Dmitry Laier (34:28.633)
For me? No, no. Here's big questions and problems that I don't know how government will solve. If they plan to run CBDC, they need to create pools of liquidity, right? If they will create pools of liquidity, somebody can attack these pools. For example, other countries. And how they will protect against these attacks?

Citizen Web3 (34:28.752)
You're not scared of that?

Dmitry Laier (34:56.205)
I don't know, but they're trying to run CBDC. Okay, let's try. We know many, many stories about how stable coins can go under the one to one.

Citizen Web3 (35:11.1)
What's your opinion in general about CBDCs? Do you think it's a good thing? Do you think it's a bad thing, a positive and negative thing for crypto space, for people in general?

Dmitry Laier (35:21.029)
I think we're already there because we are paying by cards, but it will just move from web 2 to web 3 and will be decentralized. That's it.

Citizen Web3 (35:30.24)
You think it will be decentralized?

Citizen Web3 (35:36.46)
I'm curious how you see it.

Dmitry Laier (35:36.717)
I... No, no, they will own uh, nodes, they will control

Citizen Web3 (35:42.128)
For example, China has declared a very interesting thing about CBDCs. They said that they are probably going to be the first big boys country to implement CBDC. And one of the ideas they propose is that, for example, that if anybody who has their salary, if you have left in your bank account and the other of the month more...

than they think you should have, it will just take it away and it will burn because you don't need it. If you're not putting the money into the economy, according to the Chinese government, that means you don't need the money. So that's one scary thing of CBDCs in my opinion. I'm curious, what's yours?

Dmitry Laier (36:25.693)
Yeah, be sure all the time on the account of each people will be right amount that government would like to see but for example in Tron blockchain you will have another one amount or somebody else That governments can see that's it and you can convert it on Your way and I think more and more Your shops your markets will be

present on the market where you can pay by USDT or different stable coins, not government CBDC token, yeah, they will accept it for sure.

Citizen Web3 (37:07.648)
What's your take today for me personally, one of the most, even though Citizen Web3 and Citizen Cosmos, which prevailed Citizen Web3, was born out of community management in a lot. For me, community management has been, I would say, the most difficult thing for the project or one of the most difficult things. What's NodeG do? What do you do personally at NodeG?

in order to build a community around your project. And what is your life hacks for anybody out there listening to this and thinking, I want to learn how to do it, to build community.

Dmitry Laier (37:45.525)
So, okay, so this is question about go-to-market strategy, right?

Yeah, we tried many different ways how to attract classic marketing, advertisement, different conferences, but what working is motivation by the money. You do something, we're paying by leaderboard, most active users, some rewards. It works a lot, it's fair. Yeah.

Yeah, we're changing. We give you money, you give some time and promote our product. This is the best way for us at the moment.

Citizen Web3 (38:29.456)
And I'm going to make a joke. I'm going to make a joke, but I agree with you actually. But we like to, when Web3 started to be bigger, back in 2017, me and my friends started to call cashback bribery. And people got very upset. And I was like, why are you getting upset? It's the same thing. I don't think it's wrong. And a lot of people don't think it's wrong, but some people like to say, oh, this is cashback, this is not bribery. What is the difference? You bribe.

Dmitry Laier (38:44.353)
Mm-hmm.

Dmitry Laier (38:57.054)
Hehehehe

Citizen Web3 (38:58.24)
It's it works you give in order to get and like yeah, I totally understand what you mean because in my opinion like I we are now developing an ambassador program actually and we are trying to also base the ambassador program based on cash back that we can pay.

Dmitry Laier (39:00.923)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dmitry Laier (39:13.538)
Yeah, you just share part of your revenue with your loyal users. Yeah, it's fair.

Citizen Web3 (39:17.26)
Exactly. Absolutely. Certainly. I agree. There's a lot of, there's a lot of a lot of, you know, difficult things, I guess, that people talk. But I personally think and I'm glad to hear that more people don't disagree with it.

Dmitry Laier (39:34.401)
First of all, we need to raise our trust score to the blockchain community, because we are zero, we are nobody, and we should start growing our trust score. And after that maybe classic marketing instruments will work, but in the beginning no.

Citizen Web3 (39:53.684)
I understand it takes it takes a long time sometimes and I think maybe that's a good thing, I guess, you know, to understand who is loyal to you and to grow with these people together. I know that at the beginning, you said that you don't have perfectly you have to go with one point you have another place to be. So I'm going to move to the bleeds because it takes it sounds quick, but it's not it takes usually a while. So that's why it's five questions.

Dmitry Laier (40:15.045)
Mm-hmm. Okay.

Citizen Web3 (40:21.713)
Feel free to ask them, to answer them, sorry, in not necessarily short way, but actually to talk about the details. So that's why I'm already starting from the beginning.

Dmitry Laier (40:31.926)
I'll like Bruce Willis in Five Settlement. It's okay.

Citizen Web3 (40:34.744)
Yes, it's more like that. It's more like that. Yeah. I remember. Well, it's super green. Let's make it super green. Tell me, you won a book or a movie that has in the past five years had an impression on Dmitry.

Dmitry Laier (40:55.793)
Uhhhhhh

I don't know. Ha ha ha.

Citizen Web3 (40:59.032)
I told you it's not easy. This is just the first question.

Dmitry Laier (41:04.224)
Expans.

Citizen Web3 (41:06.65)
Why?

Dmitry Laier (41:08.245)
Because it's our closest future that we can bring. If we will stop fighting and start researching the space, this is our future and we should be ready for this. I like dreaming.

Citizen Web3 (41:21.348)
like it I like it a lot I like it too tell me one

Citizen Web3 (41:30.192)
technological field, for example, machine learning or blockchain or something else, apart from blockchain that interests Dmitry.

Dmitry Laier (41:44.045)
I just tried IML. We did the project with Machine Vision to recognize prices on the shelves. But it was just a job, it's not interesting. I just did my personal small project. I changed the voice of the singer. You know the group Keno and Victor Tsui? Yeah.

I used this voice of Victor and implemented it to the song Voiny Sveta. It was nice.

Citizen Web3 (42:24.012)
I, it reminds me enough for some reason. I don't know if, if anybody, by the way, I'm not going to talk about myself. I'm going to say for anybody's listening, because you can see all the links of everything that Mitri is mentioning, including Victor Tsoy in Kino. And for any listeners who are not coming from that background, there is a Metallica cover that it was done of, and just type in Metallica.

Kinoy and you will hear an interesting one of the most famous songs that they did not the best cover in the world but it's cool and

Dmitry Laier (42:56.793)
Yeah, yeah. Because, you know, I miss about these old singers and I would like to see their voice maybe in new songs. And that's why I start doing it. Yeah.

Citizen Web3 (43:07.98)
I understand. I understand totally. It gives you that feeling that it's still there. It's an interesting thing. Mitri, what about give me one blockchain project or maybe a couple that you're curious in technologically.

Dmitry Laier (43:26.541)
I'm interested in Aptos. They just hide in the bushes, but I'm waiting for some explosion from this project.

Citizen Web3 (43:39.348)
Give me a bit more... like, what is it about Aptus that attracts you? What's... give me a bit more meat here.

Dmitry Laier (43:47.182)
The main point now on the battlefields of blockchains is the transaction per second. Because MasterCard and Visa start feeling that somebody is very close and can catch this business. Yeah, and I think Apto is very close to this. Yeah, many projects have high TPS.

But also, here should be smart contracts that can be run without external involvement. For example, it will start by itself every period that you will program for these smart contracts. I'm waiting some excites from Aptos. Yeah. I don't know how to explain more.

Citizen Web3 (44:34.949)
Okay, cool, cool. No, no, it's good. I like it. It was just, I'm always curious what draws people to what they say. So I always try to get a bit more information. Okay, last two. Gone.

Dmitry Laier (44:44.777)
Yeah, just a couple of questions about Layer 2. The biggest problem is that all the money that is invested in Layer 2 is distributed between all these Layer 2 projects. And each blockchain has a small TVL inside. This is a big problem of Layer 2 and Ethereum. They try to make an abstraction of the accounts, but I don't know how it will affect it.

on the distribution of this money between this Layer 2. The biggest problem, and it's not only Layer 2, it's also about another one project. I don't know, they should create some solutions that will aggregate all money that's circulating inside all the blockchains. Because for hackers it's easy to attack each pool and each blockchain and...

This money for example, that blockchain runs some incentivized program, all users immediately run to the blockchain and transfer all money there. Then here is incentivized finished and all money starts migrating to another blockchain. It's like lemmings, all the time migrating between the blockchains and the same money.

Citizen Web3 (46:03.7)
Yeah, L2s are definitely something that there is a big difference between the way they implemented and in a lot of meaningful and interesting ways. I always advise people to watch the development of IT in the 80s and the 90s. And basically what's happening on blockchain is very much repeating exactly the same thing. But I have two more questions for you, Dmitry. Before we go to finish, I have two more questions for you. One still, there was only three.

Dmitry Laier (46:28.545)
Go ahead.

Citizen Web3 (46:31.936)
When you see, I told you it's not a blitz, one led to a whole L2 conversation. So, first one, give me one motivational thing that keeps me, Dmitry, out of bed and building Nodigy. What is one motivational thing that keeps you doing what you do and helping people and so on and so forth.

Dmitry Laier (46:57.565)
If my wife will wake up me and say our clients will lose the money because we are hacked, I will wake up immediately for sure and start trying to realize some problems.

Citizen Web3 (47:09.089)
Okay, I like it. I like it. I like it. Okay, then last one. Give me one person or personas could be real could be from a cartoon could be from a movie. It could be somebody you know, that motivates you and inspires you in life, not a guru, but has a good motivation on you.

Dmitry Laier (47:29.937)
Okay, easy, easy. William Wallace. Yeah. Because he is brave. Yeah.

Citizen Web3 (47:33.816)
William Wallace. Why William Wallace? That's an, that's an original answer. Why William Wallace? I love it. I love it. I love it. Dmitri, I want to thank you very much for joining in. I remember you said that you had to go strictly on a specific hour because you have something to do. I want to thank you very much for joining. Sorry for the beginning with all the technical glitches, but we did it.

Dmitry Laier (47:58.261)
Yeah, thank you, Serz0. It was very, very interesting.

Citizen Web3 (48:01.916)
Please don't hang up just yet. I'm just gonna, we're just gonna say bye to everybody. And then, oh, back to you. Thank you everybody else for joining, listening to us. Bye bye. Ciao.

Dmitry Laier (48:11.373)
Ciao.