------------------------------------------------------------------ Playability Podcast Episode 34: Dibs on Blue (Stephanie Jessup) Run time: 13 minutes, 48 seconds Episode recorded by Rebecca Strang. Playability is produced by Mike Risley. Transcript auto-generated by Temi and edited by Rebecca Strang. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Intro Music: 00:00 Rebecca Strang: 00:09 Hello and welcome to Playability where we hold conversations at the crossroads of gameplay and accessibility. I'm your host, Rebecca Strang and I'm joined today by Stephanie Jessup. Stephanie Jessup: 00:20 Hi! Rebecca Strang: 00:21 Stephanie creates board gaming content dedicated to American Sign Language users on her YouTube channel, Dibs on Blue. And you also may have seen her signing on videos for Watch It Played. Welcome to the show Stephanie! Stephanie Jessup: 00:34 Hi. Thank you so much for having me. Rebecca Strang: 00:36 Yeah, I'm so happy to have you on. So to get started, let's talk a little bit about what accessibility means for you within board gaming. Stephanie Jessup: 00:44 So I thought about this a lot. I listen to your podcast and I know you asked this question, but I thought about it and I, I would think it's like really more in depth than just seeing like let's have some accommodations for people. I think the first step for accessibility is just awareness. I think that people need to know who's out there and a lot of people are just really ignorant to that and it's not really any fault of their own, it's just that they haven't been exposed to that kind of education. So I think if we can squash that and get them educated about the different types of groups of people out there, then that's like the first step. And then after that, for me, I feel like the humanity has to come in where you're aware that these people are out there and then you're like, "Okay, I care enough and I have enough compassion to do something about it." So that's the next step for me. Rebecca Strang: 01:30 Definitely. Stephanie Jessup: 01:30 And then the last step has the accessibility portion where you're like, "Okay, I care enough. I know these people are out there and now we have to provide some accommodations for these people and do something about it and make those necessary changes that they need." So that's what accessibility means for me. I think it's really in depth, but it's also really simple at the same time. Rebecca Strang: 01:48 Yeah, I completely agree. You can't do anything for something that you're not aware about and the compassion is totally a huge piece of that. Stephanie Jessup: 01:57 Yeah. Rebecca Strang: 01:57 So how did you get started with doing American sign language game instruction videos? Stephanie Jessup: 02:03 That started, honestly, it probably is like several years ago, just mentally preparing for that. Rebecca Strang: 02:08 Mmhmm. Stephanie Jessup: 02:08 I did start the channel a year ago, so I uploaded, I think my first video was uploaded like around a year ago, but really years ago it started because I became a sign language teacher and when I became a sign language teacher, my love for board gaming kind of paralleled that. And so my husband and I were getting progressively more and more into board gaming and as I was teaching I started thinking about how to use board games in the classroom? And I know your, I think it was your cohost, right? Who, who, it's the same thing where it was like a teacher trying to incorporate more gaming into instruction. And so that's kind of where I started, right? I was just trying to figure out how to get board games in the classroom and as students love playing games. So I set out trying to look at board games a little differently and trying to see if they could be played using ASL. And that really changed my whole perspective on board games 'cause games were really easy to adapt ASL and some games were really difficult and impossible to incorporate into the ASL classroom. And then that got me thinking like what resources are out there for deaf people? And that's when I wanted to create my own channel 'cause I was like, "I need to provide some resource out there for people so that they know how to switch this into an ASL mode and not a hearing mode." So that's where that all started. Rebecca Strang: 03:24 It's funny how seemingly little things can lead you down these larger and larger rabbit holes until now you've got this whole space of content that you're creating. Stephanie Jessup: 03:33 Yes. Yeah. That's definitely a huge undertaking, but it's so rewarding and an interesting to me. So it's like fun. It's not really like work. You know? Rebecca Strang: 03:42 Yeah, I feel the same way. When I'm creating stuff for gaming at the library, it's work, but it's fun and definitely meaningful. Stephanie Jessup: 03:49 Yeah! Rebecca Strang: 03:49 So what are some of the challenges of producing your videos? Stephanie Jessup: 03:53 It takes a long time for me to do my videos. I, I wish I could crank out videos like how a bunch of YouTubers do, they do like, you know, a video every week or something. But with Dibs on Blue it takes a long time because I have to first, like, look at the rule book and figure out how this is going to translate into ASL. And it has to be, it has to make visual sense. So I have to kind of take the English and I don't know, like rework it and arrange them differently and try to figure out if this is going to make sense visually. So that takes a really long time to just rework the rules and um, I kind of just type up what I'm going to do there and then I film the video and I also have to keep in mind what graphics I'm going to put up because I have to be on screen the whole time. I can't, you know, show the board game and then not be on screen cause you have to see what I'm saying. Rebecca Strang: 04:43 Right. Stephanie Jessup: 04:43 Yeah. So that's hard because a lot of YouTubers can just freely do whatever and just speak over themselves and I can't, I can't do that. So, so I have to consider that like what graphics I'm going to put up and I have to take pictures of the board games because those are going to be the graphics. And then I edit the videos and then I watched the video back and I type up what I think should be voiced because all of my videos are voiced for hearing people so that everyone can enjoy my video. And that takes a long time. And then, and then I watch the video again and I voice it as I'm watching it and then I have to edit that audio into it. So it takes a really long time to make a video. That's why I set out to make a goal of at least one video a month. There's been others, there's been months where I've done more than one video, but at the very least I want to do one video a month. So takes a long time. But that, those are the challenges. Rebecca Strang: 05:36 And so what kind of feedback have you been receiving since starting Dibs on Blue or the partnership that you've had with Watch It Played? Stephanie Jessup: 05:43 It's been absolutely amazing and it was right out of the gate. It was, I didn't know what to expect and it's always really nerve wracking to kind of like throw yourself out there and do something kind of outside of the box and new. And I didn't know what to expect. I didn't know if I was, gonna just be as being like, well this is dumb. You know, like I didn't know. I don't know. I didn't know what to expect and didn't know it. I didn't really know if there was a need for it too, cause I didn't know what the deaf community was like in terms of if they're really interested in board games. So that was nerve wracking. But when I threw up my first video, it was really positive. And then when I started collaborating with Rodney from Watch It Played, the feedback we got on that first announcement video was just so overwhelming and so inspiring to read all the comments of people being like, "Oh my gosh, this is amazing, like what you guys are doing for accessibility and board gaming" and all that stuff. It was just really powerful to read all that positive feedback. So really I haven't had any negative feedback about the channel or my collaboration with Watch It Played, so it's been awesome. Rebecca Strang: 06:42 Well that's great. And obviously the videos are incredibly helpful for the deaf community, but also for the hearing community because, like you were talking about before, having awareness of a community can help that community. So hearing people seeing that there's a need for this kind of content out there, Stephanie Jessup: 06:59 Mmhmm. Rebecca Strang: 07:00 it's great. Stephanie Jessup: 07:00 Yeah, there's been, there were a few people here and there and then we still get a few people here and there. It's not negative per se, it's really bringing it back to that whole awareness piece where people are kind of like, "Why is this needed?" That kind of thing. Every now and then I'll see a comment that says that. But I love that too because I'm like, this is an opportunity to educate. Rebecca Strang: 07:17 Definitely. Stephanie Jessup: 07:20 Yeah. And so that, that announcement video that we did with Rodney where he was like, you know, "We're going to do some interpreted videos," I tried to cover all the bases in that video. And so every now and then we'll see a comment pop up that says like, "Why is this needed?" And we'll kind of refer them back to that video. Cause I, I try to cover why ASL is, it's just a little bit better and a little bit more preferred over just base captions. So I cover that in the video. But that's really the, the closest to like a negative comment but it's not negative at all. It's just somebody who doesn't know what's out there know. Rebecca Strang: 07:52 Sure. And I know you do a lot of advocacy for the deaf community. So what are some issues that deaf or hard of hearing people have to navigate within the broader spectrum of the gaming community? Stephanie Jessup: 08:04 Yeah, they're, from what I've seen anyway. And I want to preface everything I say by being like I'm not, no, by no means do I feel like I'm the spokesperson for like the entire deaf community. I obviously I have no idea what it's like to be deaf. So I don't want to offend anybody in the deaf community, but I do feel like I'm a strong advocate and I'm always the cheerleader in their corner for them. So that's where I'm speaking from. I'm speaking from a place of, of caring and, and knowledge cause I've seen a lot of what deaf people have talked about. But as far as the whole board gaming community, they have some issues with certain types of board gaming mechanics. Like for instance, social deduction games are really kind of a struggle. If you think about having to close your eyes when you're playing a game, uh, that's probably not the best thing for a deaf person. So they end up having to come up with other ways to play those games, like tapping the table or flashing the lights or doing, that's gonna let people know when they have to wake up or say like when you're playing that game, which is a struggle because you have to memorize like how many taps on the table, is it going to be for my role to wake up or you know, so that those games are a struggle. They have issues with escape rooms. I've seen that being discussed where anything with like auditory clues or cues for them to do something or a timed event that doesn't have a whole lot of accommodations for them. That's really difficult for them to have the same enjoyable experience that a hearing person could have. So escape rooms, eh, need to be, I think a little bit more accessible. But I think we're probably getting there in terms of um, what we can do and what, how we can change a game for them. And in other facets of board gaming, they know, I know they have issues with rule books. Sometimes rule books tend to be really word heavy and not too visually oriented. So sometimes they wish that there would be more pictures and more visual, you know, representations of how to play the game. And the videos that people have made have been awesome for deaf people, especially if there's captions on there. And on the announcement video that I did with Rodney, I did talk a little bit about captions and how that is great for a lot of deaf people. A lot of deaf people don't mind just captions, they'll solely rely on captions. But there's a lot of errors in captions on videos. Rebecca Strang: 10:21 Definitely. Stephanie Jessup: 10:21 So, it's really best if somebody types their own captions and doesn't rely on the YouTube automated captioning system that it has. I mean anything is great, but there's so many errors sometimes 'cause people mumble and it's hard to understand. And so YouTube will just kind of make up what people are saying and then that leaves out the deaf person and they have no idea what's being said. So.. Rebecca Strang: 10:43 Yeah, I, I'm not deaf. I do have a partial hearing loss in my right ear. Stephanie Jessup: 10:49 Oh, okay. Rebecca Strang: 10:49 and I use captions. Anytime I'm watching television, I always have captions on and it's so irritating how often I'll hear something and then when I read it, it says something completely different and it totally changes the tone of what's happening in the show or, you know, what they're saying because of one little change that they make in that. Stephanie Jessup: 11:13 Yeah, I would imagine it takes you out of that moment and then you're stuck trying to figure out what they said and you're missing the stuff that's being said after you're trying to, you're just all confused. So yeah, it's those, that's a big struggle. And so when, when people have like, I call them clean captions, you know, captions that are typed in they're perfect and it's exactly what's being said. That's huge. Even just that time you take to type out what you're saying and put it up on your video is so appreciative. So, yeah. Rebecca Strang: 11:40 Definitely. And so do you have any advice if other video content producers are considering adding American Sign Language to their videos, what would you suggest to, if they don't have experience with American Sign Language. Stephanie Jessup: 11:57 If what you're doing is adding an interpreter to your videos, then you have to make sure that that interpreter knows what they're doing because there's so many interpreters out there who just aren't skilled enough to undertake that. And I'm not saying I'm like the best interpreter ever, but you need to make sure that the ASL is, is ASL and it's, it's what a deaf person would need. But the other thing is, I've seen a lot of ASL videos on YouTube too, where there's, the quality is not the greatest. It's like their hands are blurred by whatever video quality they're using. So the video quality has to be really great and you can do that pretty easily. You don't have to get like a really expensive camera. I mean the phones nowadays even have great quality of videos. So just make sure that the video quality is good and the ASL is strong and, and just go from there. Rebecca Strang: 12:40 Yeah. And one thing I will say, you brought up not obstructing the hands, and the same thing goes if you're adding captions to your videos to make sure those captions aren't covering up other important information or the person's hands, because that, again, you're going to miss a lot of information... Stephanie Jessup: 12:59 Yep. Rebecca Strang: 12:59 ...depending on where those things are located. Stephanie Jessup: 13:01 Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Rebecca Strang: 13:04 And so if folks would like to contact you or you know, follow up and keep up to date with what you're doing, where can they find you online? Stephanie Jessup: 13:13 So I'm on Twitter, @DibsOnBlueGames and I'm on Facebook and I'm on YouTube. Yeah, that's it. All those places. Rebecca Strang: 13:22 All right, great. Well thank you so much again for being on the show today. This was a lot of great information. Stephanie Jessup: 13:28 Awesome. Thank you. Rebecca Strang: 13:29 And if our listeners have any questions or comments they'd like to share with us, please email us at playabilitypod@gmail.com. You can also find us on major social media platforms @playabilitypod. Thanks again for listening. I hope this episode helps you play with a new perspective.