------------------------------------------------------------------ Playability Podcast Episode 26: Anniversary Run time: 17 minutes, 2 seconds Episode recorded by Rebecca Strang. Playability is produced by Mike Risley. Transcript auto-generated by Temi and edited by Rebecca Strang. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Intro Music: 00:00 Rebecca Strang: 00:07 Hello and welcome to Playability where we hold conversations at the crossroads of gameplay and accessibility. I'm your host, Rebecca Strang... Lauren Woolsey: 00:15 And I'm also your host learn. We'll see today we are celebrating one year of Playability. We're going to take a look back at the past year and look forward to the future. Rebecca Strang: 00:25 Woohoo. Alrighty. So let's get started by talking about how we got started. Lauren Woolsey: 00:31 Yeah, I go ahead and I think you were the first of the two of us to be contacted with this weird idea out of nowhere. Rebecca Strang: 00:39 Yeah, I got a Twitter direct message from Mike, our producer in April of 2018 asking if I would potentially be interested in a show that was hosted by women and we would talk to game designers about, you know, designing for accessibility and the games community and inclusivity. And he was kind of doing some searching for a second host and then that's where you came along. Lauren Woolsey: 01:05 Yeah, I think I got a message maybe a week later and I remember that it started with like, "Sorry, I know this is random but...," And it was such an intriguing idea at the time. And I'm like, wow, I'd never seen myself as a podcast host, but I mean I talked to people for a living and I ask questions of my students all the time and so I've got some of the skills and I'm sure I could learn the others. Rebecca Strang: 01:28 Mmhmm. Lauren Woolsey: 01:29 Yeah. So that was, that was over a year ago now. Rebecca Strang: 01:33 Yeah. And I remember being surprised. I have huge imposter syndrome, really bad. So I was surprised that I was even being contacted at all. And when I asked him, you know, "Why me?" And he said that he got my name from a couple of people. One of those people was Lindsey from Shiny Happy Meeples, who I adore. And I was just kind of floored at the time that people were more curious about what I had to say. Lauren Woolsey: 02:01 Yeah. That was, I think the most interesting and intriguing part. It's like, "Oh okay, I am actually making a difference in the board game community enough that my name popped up." That was I think a really fun part of the starting point. I know that the idea kind of morphed from the original short interviews with designers and as we brainstormed with Mike, we figured out a goal and a purpose and I remember brainstorming taglines and that was always fun too. But it was a real group effort and I really, I really enjoy thinking back about it. It feels like a lot longer than a year ago though. Rebecca Strang: 02:38 Yeah, it's kinda crazy and Mike definitely deserves a huge shout out from us too. He does a lot of work for our podcast in producing and helping with our social media and getting our names out there. He's been awesome. Lauren Woolsey: 02:52 He's been keeping us on track. Rebecca Strang: 02:54 Definitely. Lauren Woolsey: 02:56 Yeah, he's, he's awesome. I don't, we could do this without him. Certainly our listeners wouldn't enjoy the raw audio. I think most of the time. Now, for when we were building this, I think one of the other really interesting things is that we all kind of talk through this mostly through slack and we started in Google drive and then we moved to Trello, but one of the most interesting parts is that we all hadn't met each other in person. It was all online. Rebecca Strang: 03:28 Right. Lauren Woolsey: 03:28 Which is a really kind of interesting and important aspect of the board gaming community is a lot of us interact with people that we would definitely consider friends, but that we just haven't met in person. I know you had a chance to hang out with like recently, but I still haven't actually seen him in person. And we talk all the time. And it's kind of weird to remember that. I know that you and I sat down together in person to talk through ideas at origins last year. But even then we had already started this process of planning and it was kind of a "Hey, nice to meet you... except we already met." So that was, that was pretty fun. Rebecca Strang: 04:09 Yeah, it, yeah, it was fun. You know, getting to meet you in person. And then we met again, too, when you were passing through the Chicago area. Lauren Woolsey: 04:20 Yeah. Yeah. We just went out to dinner and it's like we're old friends already and it was one of the second time we'd actually seen each other in person. Rebecca Strang: 04:29 Yeah. And when I was at Salt Con and I met Mike, I remember when we were going to meet up and I was looking for him. I'm like, "Okay, I've seen him in pictures but I'm so terrible at recognizing people." And I kept thinking I'd probably just walk right by him. But luckily I found him pretty easily. Lauren Woolsey: 04:48 Perfect. Rebecca Strang: 04:49 So that was good. Everything went well and we played games happily. Lauren Woolsey: 04:53 Excellent, excellent. Rebecca Strang: 04:55 And another thing that's been great as you know, we've been doing this for over a year now is just kind of comparing the comfort level that you and I have with each other. If you listen to the first time we talked to each other, you know, we didn't know each other very well and there were a lot of pauses that Mike had to cut out of our first recording. Lauren Woolsey: 05:16 Yeah, I'm almost hesitant to listen to Episode Zero again. Like I've read through the transcript a couple of times, but it's like, I know it wasn't a bad episode. Like we had a lot of good content. But yeah, I agree. I would definitely be able to hear myself be able to like talk about what I do but not have a whole lot of back and forth. Rebecca Strang: 05:37 Right. Yeah. So that has definitely improved. Lauren Woolsey: 05:40 Yeah, it's been a really good year. Rebecca Strang: 05:43 I agree. Lauren Woolsey: 05:44 All right. So what would you say are some of your most memorable moments from your interviews? The other sort of half of things. We've got the, the behind the scenes memories in the, in front of the scenes memories. Rebecca Strang: 05:56 Yeah. So one of my more memorable moments was talking to Janice Turner about Assembly. For me, I think that was one of the first times I felt like a designer was being really critical of themselves when I was talking to them and she was talking about things she went through with trying to get cards made for the game and that whole decision process. And it was just really great to see someone being really honest and open about that process and sharing the challenges and you know, the things that went wrong and the things she had to change. And she's since written an article about it and I've also, I interviewed her a second time, so that was definitely one for me. What about you? Lauren Woolsey: 06:41 I think so the big picture thing that I've really found kind of noteworthy, it was when I go back and listen to some of my episodes, you can really see the progression of "Okay, I've got a script in front of me, I know what I'm supposed to do," but the confidence isn't quite there yet. And then kind of getting more comfortable with it. As I go along. I know that of the early episodes, the ones where I knew the person really well already, so like Junk Orbit I think is one of my favorite early episodes, partially because Daniel Solis and I got to nerd out about astronomy so it was, it was really easy and comfortable too, kind of talk about that aspect of things. But I already had like face to face conversations with them in the past about some of the graphic design decisions that he thinks about in terms of accessibility. And so it was are a little bit easier to ask some of those questions because I knew that he would have some solid answers. There's a couple of other times, and I don't remember all of them, but when I ask a question and I kind of know that they have a sense of where things are trying to go, but then they just like hit it out of the park. Rebecca Strang: 07:53 Mmmhm. Lauren Woolsey: 07:53 The most recent one that I can point out is for the Rules Forge episode that I did with Dustin. Rebecca Strang: 07:59 Yeah. Lauren Woolsey: 08:00 Because that interview was really different 'cause it wasn't a game so it was sort of like making up questions as I went that couldn't really be asked in our other episodes. And one of them I remember asking was basically about wording to make things more inclusive. And Dustin knew exactly that I was kind of hoping for a discussion of pronouns in rulebooks and he just went with it and it was a great discussion. And like we hadn't planned any of that beforehand, but we were just kind of both on the same wavelength and that sometimes can be rare. Rebecca Strang: 08:31 Yeah, I had that, too, in my interview with Isaac Vega when we were talking about what inclusivity means and how it's important. In the library world, we often talk about books being windows and mirrors, but games can be the same thing, too, where you can see yourself in a game, and that's great, and that's again being a mirror, but games are also windows. So when you play a game and you see someone else's experience in a game, you see other people represented in the game. And that's, he was talking about how having diverse games isn't important just for the people that we want to see represented in those games. But it's also important for people who might not live in a community where they interact with a diverse community. Lauren Woolsey: 09:18 Yeah, absolutely. Rebecca Strang: 09:18 So just to have them experience these diverse characters in games is just as important. Lauren Woolsey: 09:23 Yeah. Rebecca Strang: 09:23 And I definitely also started my interviews with people that I was somewhat familiar with or already had somewhat of a relationship with because it was easier for me to talk to them and get The Ask, you know, asking for the interview. Lauren Woolsey: 09:41 Sure, yeah. Rebecca Strang: 09:41 It's definitely become a lot easier as we've done this. I'm a pretty introverted person, so talking to people that I don't know, and then mixing that with my impostor syndrome, getting that ask out there was difficult for me in the beginning. Lauren Woolsey: 09:58 Yeah, it's definitely been something where the more episodes that we have under our belt, the easier it's been for me to kind of like cold call drop in on designers, especially on Twitter. If we follow each other, I can just send a direct message like, "Hey, do you want to be on Playability? Like you've got this particular game or this particular topic that I think you'd be a good fit for. If you're interested, check out some of our previous episodes." And then I just leave it at that. If they don't respond, then it's not a big deal. And I've definitely gotten over any kind of feeling of rejection if they don't respond. Not a big deal, but it's been a lot easier to kind of send out the link to our podcast and if they think it's a good fit to then, then they'll respond back and then it's, it works for everybody. Rebecca Strang: 10:41 Yeah. And it's been really fun to, to interview designers that I've admired as a gamer and a content writer for a while. You know, I'm getting to talk to them about how the design and that's been great. Lauren Woolsey: 10:51 Yeah, definitely. Rebecca Strang: 10:53 So what are some things that have surprised you the most about doing the podcast? Lauren Woolsey: 11:00 I think I was most surprised at how easy it was to get into the flow of things, like, this was a brand new experience and yet it became comfortable very quickly. I still have friends who comment on some of my episodes. I sound not like myself or more stilted or less confident. And some of that just comes from having to edit the audio so that it's as kind of short as it can be. Rebecca Strang: 11:29 Right. Lauren Woolsey: 11:30 So much of our feedback has been about people being thankful that our episodes are so short. That was one of our driving principles. I think even in our discussion as a group, you, me, and Mike, the initial idea was like 20 to 30 minutes and you and I both pushed it down and we're like, "We really should be aiming for like 15 to 20." Rebecca Strang: 11:51 Mmmhmm. Lauren Woolsey: 11:51 And so that's something that surprised me is that just how many people were thankful for that shortened time frame. I'm like a, "Hey, it's easy for everybody to make a shorter podcast, right?" Mike has less to edit. We have less time that we have to set aside with guests and plan on and everybody gets to fit it into their day a lot easier to listen. How about you or what has been most surprising for you? Rebecca Strang: 12:15 I definitely agree with the response to the shorter podcast and even with the folks that we're interviewing, they've been super thankful. You know, most of the time you get a podcast interview request and you're like, "Ah, you know, am I going to need to set an hour aside for this or more? How much time is this going to take?" And when I tell them, you know, "No, our platform is 15 to 20 minutes, you probably need half an hour at the most if that," they're super excited. Lauren Woolsey: 12:42 They're just like, "Oh, I can just hop on right now." Yeah. Rebecca Strang: 12:45 Yeah. It's really easy to get done. And for me personally, the thing that's been surprising is how quickly I've become comfortable with it because, you know, I am primarily a writer so I don't really like being on video. And sometimes, especially in the beginning it's been a little weird to hear myself listening to the podcast. Um, the other day my dad came over and we were doing something over at my husband's folks place and my dad was driving and the radio turns on and I hear myself talking and I'm like, "What is going on?" But it's because he was listening to the show, which was awesome. And I think it's been great that even people that, you know, I don't come from a family of gamers, but they've been super supportive in listening to the show, which has been awesome. Lauren Woolsey: 13:33 What other feedback? Have you gotten from either people, you know, or just in general? That's kind of stood out to you about the show. Rebecca Strang: 13:41 I've seen feedback, you know, people really like the diversity that we've had in the people that we're talking to, you know, the designers and game community people. When we started out, you know, we had a bunch of episodes talking to women designers, which was great. And I think just, you know, giving voice to people in a ratio that you might not always see. Lauren Woolsey: 14:02 Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And that wasn't even fully intentional on our part. Rebecca Strang: 14:07 Right. Lauren Woolsey: 14:07 Cause I know that you and I were both kind of focusing on people that we knew and felt comfortable with. And, that's part of the current atmosphere in the board game community is we do tend to find people that we can have that shared experience with. Rebecca Strang: 14:21 Mmhmm. Lauren Woolsey: 14:21 And so that kind of came a little bit naturally. But it's definitely been something I've heard other people say too, is it's nice to hear all those voices that aren't getting picked up necessarily on a lot of other podcasts. Again, because of that kind of nature of the board game community is we'd feel more comfortable with people that were alike and have to push our boundaries to kind of get past that. Rebecca Strang: 14:42 Yeah. And you know, people have also really been liking that we're starting to get away from strictly talking to designers. You know, we've done the visual accessibility episodes and I talked with Jacob Jackson about neurodiversity and you've done quite a few non-designer episodes as well and those have gone over really well. Lauren Woolsey: 15:03 Yeah, I think it's really been nice to have a mix. I've had a couple of people comment that our topic episodes are really helpful for them to be able to kind of send along to someone as a starting point. I know that Tony, at Bearded Rogue, you mentioned that recently, that it's a good starting place for a conversation when we've already got that 15 minutes recorded of kind of the basics of a particular topic, whether it's colorblindness or rules or something else. Rebecca Strang: 15:31 Yeah. And upcoming. I'll have an episode where we talk about accessibility in libraries, which is awesome and right in my wheelhouse. So I'm hoping that'll be another great one added to our list too. Lauren Woolsey: 15:42 Yeah, perfect. Rebecca Strang: 15:44 And any other feedback that you've heard? Lauren Woolsey: 15:47 I think that's the majority. Like I'm watching the time count up and I'm like, "Awesome. We are... Already filled our time just like our guests do." They're just like, "Oh, that's perfect." Rebecca Strang: 15:58 So, Lauren, if people want to find you online and keep up with what you're doing, where can they find you? Lauren Woolsey: 16:06 Yeah, on Twitter is the easiest social media to reach me. I'm @CGSunit and I'm also that same handle on Instagram and I've recently revamped my gaming part of my website. So that's cgsunit.com/games. How about you Rebecca? How can people get in contact with you on social media? Rebecca Strang: 16:25 I am all over the Internet as ToPlayIsHuman. That's my Twitter, Instagram and Facebook handle. My website is ToPlayIsHuman.com where I've got all kinds of gaming and library stuff on there. Lauren Woolsey: 16:39 Perfect. Rebecca Strang: 16:40 And if our listeners have any questions or comments about the show, you can share those with us by email at playabilitypod@gmail.com or you can find us on major social media platforms @playabilitypod. Lauren Woolsey: 16:56 Thanks again for listening. We hope this episode helps you play with a new perspective.