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Playability Podcast

Episode 40: More Games Please (Ross Connell)

Run time: 23 minutes, 51 seconds

Episode recorded by Rebecca Strang.

Playability is produced by Mike Risley.

Transcript auto-generated by Temi and edited by Rebecca Strang.

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Intro Music (00:00)	
Rebecca Strang (00:07):	Hello and welcome to Playability where we hold conversations at the crossroads of gameplay and accessibility. I'm your host, Rebecca Strang and today I'm joined by Ross Connell, the man behind More Games Please, a website where you can find Ross's interviews with board game artists, the annual Best Board Game Art Award competition, as well as his beautiful board game related product and lifestyle photography. Welcome to the show Ross!
Ross Connell (00:34):	Thank you very much.
Rebecca Strang (00:35):	Super glad to have you here. I was a photographer in a past life and I also have a love of art. So I'm really excited to be talking with you about art and accessibility today. So to jump right in, what does accessibility in gaming mean to you?
Ross Connell (00:51):	I mean, I suppose that's, that's a multifaceted question really, but I guess to me it means that, you know, to say it in layman terms, that anyone can, you know, approach and engage with something on the same level. So, uh, you would hope that level would be with ease, I guess rather than great difficulty. But to me accessibly means that, whoever, whoever it is that it's approaching it. It's on a level playing field.
Rebecca Strang (01:20):	Definitely. And, so I really love the description that you have on your website's about page where you said that you've created your website "as a cultural library of board game art based around interviews with the talented individuals that make these games happen." As a librarian and a photographer and art lover. That all makes my heart really happy. So what inspired you to start interviewing board game artists?
Ross Connell (01:49):	I think the initial, uh, the initial thought came to me... So my partner, she's a uh, a full time freelance illustrator and the, I remember years ago we were talking about what she could do more to open herself up to the community and I, uh, was encouraging her to write a blog. I've always been a fan, to give you a little background, let's jump back to steps.
Rebecca Strang (02:15):	Sure.
Ross Connell (02:15):	When I was at university, I studied film, Audio, Visual and Production Engineering is the fancy title of the degree, if you want to make it sound better than it was. However, my interest was always in documentary filmmaking. And so I've always had an interest in, you know, a kind of curiosity about how things get made. So my partner being a freelance illustrator, I was like, well, what would I want to know more about? I'd want to know about more about how you, how you make your work, which is difficult for an artist in a lot of ways because artists aren't often used to communicating in that way about how they make, a lot of times they just make, so she was like, "No, I'm not interested, shutup and go away." But the, I like to cut long story short, it went on for a bit longer than that, but every response was, "Oh yeah, I'll do that," but wasn't bothered. "Oh yeah, I'll do that." But wasn't bothered. And eventually she was like, "Yeah, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna do it. Go away." And I, the idea stayed with me and I was, um, getting more and more invested in the board game hobby. And I found it really, cause I, I, I started trying to look up artists and illustrators online. The first reason why it occurred to me is because I started on Instagram mainly just to not annoy my friends with a lot of board game photographs on my normal Instagram page, which, which has declined because of this obsession. But one thing I noticed is that it was one, it was difficult often to find illustrators on Instagram or I had a larger following than them, which I thought was absolute madness. That there were these such incredibly talented people and I would have a bigger following on Instagram taking a photograph of the work they done to share with other people. And I thought, what a strange, what a strange world do we live in? Whereas I'm taking a picture on my phone of a talented illustration and people are rewarding me over the person who's the illustrator just because of the way we share. And from that, I also thought, well, I want to give more of a platform to these people. It seems to be, um, to uh, to paint broad strokes easier for me to do that. It is for them there, you know that you only have so many spoons. I don't know that's the phrase anyone else would use. You've only got so many spoons you can use in life. Their spoons is dedicated to art, not content creation and, and you know, putting things out there. And I thought I could bridge bridge that gap. That was a much, that much longer answer than I was expecting and pretty meandering as well.
Rebecca Strang (04:48):	No worries. Interesting. Um, yeah, it's, it is interesting when a lot of people talk about board games, they'll often mention, you know, the designer or the publisher, but the artist isn't someone who is often included in a default answer when you're talking about a game.
Ross Connell (05:05):	What's really interesting is I, you know, I watch a lot of, of big websites who either write about games or they do videos or podcasts about games and often they'll mention the artwork in this game was incredible. You know, the, the artwork, you know, made this, took this game up, up a notch. And during the interview, or sorry, during the the piece they'll mention who the designer was, who the publisher was, but they'll never say who the art, well not never, but rarely, it's becoming more, it's becoming more popular to mention it, but for a long time they were mentioning exactly these things, how, how great the illustration was, but they were never saying who the artist was. And it's so easy to add that. I always thought that was a real shame.
Rebecca Strang (05:49):	Yeah, I agree. I mean there are definitely some designers out there or even some publishers for people who as soon as they hear that name, it's, you know, an instant interest for them. But a lot of times the first thing that people encounter with the game is that art on the box that's going to draw them in. So including the artists is definitely important. So what role does art play in accessibility and inclusion in our gaming world?
Ross Connell (06:19):	I mean, so you could look at this from a few different angles really. So one, you can look at the history of the hobby and you can say, you know, the hobby has been around for quite a while, but predominantly it's been, yeah, it's kind of hard a certain themes that have been popular and certain characterizations that have existed within it. And for me, art gives the opportunity to kind of expand the worlds that are presented to the player. So, you know, it may be that predominantly, historically speaking, it's been quite Eurocentric in, in how the world had been presented. However, what I like about what art can do is art can use imagination to reinterpret either history or the present and provide a, a more broad outlook and more inclusive outlook in terms of representation of the characters. You know, whoever builds these worlds, they really, uh, it's down to them who they want to populate them with and not just that they can do it in a way that is, uh, accessible visually and as graphic design and artwork become, uh, you know, more technically proficient in these areas, it also means that people who have, uh, you know, visual impairments and things like that are also able to, to be able to see and engage with things more.
Rebecca Strang (07:44):	There are, there's so many choices out there when you're considering art. Um, especially if you're not working on a game that is focused on a specific place or culture and those choices that you make can really make a difference on how people feel drawn in or welcomed into playing within that world that you've created. So if someone was looking to get into the industry as an artist to make board game art and they were asking for advice on artists to follow as examples of, um, people who are doing good with art, making great art for games, who are some artists that you would recommend?
Ross Connell (08:26):	I mean, it's really difficult because art's so subjective and I'm sure you'll appreciate that yourself. And I know you said who would, who would I recommend? But I mean, part of my website is it's a personal curation. So, uh, the art that I put onto my site, it's art that I appreciate and I like and I see as possibly above other examples or, you know, the artists weren't available to speak to. So you get what you get.
Rebecca Strang (08:50):	Sure.
Ross Connell (08:51):	I mean, examples of illustrators that I think a fantastic is. Um, so one example, and I absolutely adore the work that the, this person, this is Kyle Ferrin. So you may know Kyle from games like the recently Kickstarted Oath or Vast or Root, and there's kind of a, a whimsical quality, the childlike, you know, energy to, to the illustrations are that he does that really just appeal to me in a way that high fantasy often doesn't. So some fantasy illustrations or classic fantasy illustrations, as technically proficient as they may be, they just don't quite do it for me in terms of the way they present the world. So if something's done in more of a scratchy scrawly, like you can imagine an incredibly talented child's drawing it, what do they say, the Mozart of illustration was doing it, you know, if there were, it, there's a, there's a childlike element to it, which, which which makes it feel more open to me. Than quite, some fantasy, bit can be quite in my opinion, and it is only my opinion Poe faced and quite closed sometimes if you're not into the lore. So that would be one example of an illustrator that I, that I admire. Another example, uh, and the reason why I don't necessarily like questions like this because I want to name too many people. There's another illustrator that I do like by, I interviewed on my website, uh, is Cinyee Chiu. And the reason I like, uh, sales is quite so like a water color based illustration. And there's, I love the, the, the colors basically. A lot of what draws me to artwork personally is often the color, the colors that are within it. Yeah. That's, I mean that's maybe a really, I don't have a background in art, so it's, when I talk about artwork, it's, it's just really comes from a place of how it makes me feel. And it's not driven by, you know, I don't compare it to the technical proficiency of different artists. I basically look at something and go, yeah, that, so Cinyee's work. It just has this kind of quality. It's to do with the kind of earthy shades that she uses in some of her work and the, you know, the fact that she uses kind of like pastel colors that it really pleases me. And I think the work that she's done, which is quite limited within the board game world, but she did, did illustration work on a game called Dragon Castle.
Rebecca Strang (11:15):	Mmmhmm.
Ross Connell (11:15):	I think it's quite unusual compared to what other people are doing. And I think it shows in some ways that there's a scope to present things in an aesthetically different way than, you know, historically what you'd normally see in board games. Then you've got someone like Kwanchai Moriya who has done an awful lot of games.
Rebecca Strang (11:36):	Ha, definitely!
Ross Connell (11:39):	You know, and when I interviewed Kwanchai, it took a long time for us to get the opportunity to have a conversation just because he's in such demand. But what really like is how punchy and colorful, you know, and the kind of strong presence of style within what he does in terms of his illustration. It's very unique and it's very him and you can see that quality in the work. Another example would be Vincent Dutrait who just from a technical perspective, he's an incredible artist. He paints all of the pieces and the, the level of detail and work is, is absolutely amazing. That would be another example of a person that I would say you should definitely, definitely check out. And then I'll give you one more for the road. So let me have a, have a little think. Uh, Victoria Ying is another great illustrator and she comes from a background of having previously worked at Disney, so she has that kind of classic Disney look to what she, what she can do. And also the incredible talent that's required of someone who would work at Disney. You know, you have a high volume of work to do at a very high technical standard. And so the level of quality of lighting and realism but also imagination that that come from her work I think is, is fantastic.
Rebecca Strang (13:08):	Yeah, definitely our great artists. And I agree. Um, I remember the first time I saw Vast, and that art style, um, Kyle's art style and all of those colors just hit you right away and draw you right in and I loved that. So through your interviews, well, what are a few favorite tidbits or insights that you've learned from the artists that you've interviewed?
Ross Connell (13:34):	I think it's, it's kind of difficult in some ways though. One of the things is the idea that people are naturally gifted. You know, the idea that if you are talented, it was, it was, you know, it was the stars have aligned and you were just going to be gifted from day one. You were born in and you know and sometimes that is true. Sometimes people do have an advantage, let's say in terms of where that, but the vast majority of people that you find that are working illustrators within the board game industry I'd, I would describe them as people with talent, yes, but also an an incredibly strong drive. And what a running theme through the vast majority of the interviews that I've done is that they, they can't, they can't stop basically. They can't stop. This is what they love. This is how they find their place in the world. And this is what drives them, you know, to become, you know, to become truly gifted in any, in any field, it requires a certain level of obsession I think. And you know, healthy let's say. But you know, with, with these illustrators, that is an insight that I've really enjoyed. That you know, a lot of people talk about their memories of when they first picked up a pen and paper when they first started doodling, they'd have, you know, I can't, it's really difficult for me to pull exact examples out of my brain, but there was an artist that talks about having a stack of paper. The parents just left a stack of paper and some crayons next to them in front of the TV and they just spend all day just doodling in front of the TV. And I love that. I love the idea as a small child, that's what they wanted to do. That's what they're doing now. I love, I love the kind of uh, the wonderful circle of having a desire and a dream from a young age in it and actualizing it as an adult. It's so rare and I think, you know, artists are an example of people who have got there because that's been consistent throughout their life and they've worked towards it. Another thing as an insight that I, say enjoy is probably the wrong term, but the I found really interesting is often how isolating it can be to be an illustrator. When you work from home, you don't necessarily have a shared office space, a shared studio space, and how easy it is to forget the pressures that get put on people when they're working in isolation. And how challenging that can be. And one thing I'm often curious about is how people stay connected to the world when they work from home. I work from home, so I understand that. I haven't been doing this very long but I already get, there's a level of disconnect in the last couple of months I've had from when I worked within an office with, you know, a large group of people and how you stay creatively topped up within, you know, isolation and how you also handle the creative pressures that you put under when you aren't necessarily working in a team. You're working separate from a team.
Rebecca Strang (16:40):	Yeah, that's interesting that um, the isolation aspect, my husband works from home so he's, he works from home a lot. So there's definitely that isolation aspect. And then maybe when you combine that with the fact that at least historically, um, when these artists haven't been included as often when we talk about board games, that must compound that feeling. You're doing this great work for these pieces of art and it's almost like no one sees you and you're, you know, you're, yeah. Working alone like that too.
Ross Connell (17:17):	Yeah, it's really interesting the point you make that if everyone's talking about this big new release no one, no one mentions you at any point. It's the most popular game out this year it's got the best artwork. Who drew it? Who cares what, let's just play, you know. So that's a large driving force behind my website really was there, there was a moment that it hit home to a certain extent and it's how often, um, board games are viewed from within and outside the industry. So the first the, so I've been running my website about six months and I decided to, I just wanted to vote on the best board game illustration, the most board game art of that year. That was back in 2018, uh 2017, sorry, whatever year it was a few years ago. Anyway, I just wanted to, I just wanted to vote on the best art of the year and as much as I could find votes for, you know, best two player game, best abstract game, best designer, best publisher, all these different things. There weren't any votes for illustrator. I couldn't find, I couldn't find a single one, which I found so unusual and I'd only, I've been running my website for six months at the time, but to me that was just like that, just that just confirmed why I was doing it in the first place. You know? And I remember the second year that I did my, uh, vote for best artwork of the year, to be honest, the vote this year, because I did the nominations just before Christmas, I still need to, I still need to post of the vote on my website, it's, it's coming, but I've just been so busy, I haven't had the opportunity yet, but when I came to do the, the vote last year, for example, more people voted and nominated for illustration on my website than they did in that category on Board Game Geek, which I thought was incredible because it showed that if you give it a platform, people care. If you push it all the way down the list may be, it doesn't get the visibility it deserves. But it's good to see that it's, it's becoming a thing that people are talking about more. And I think that's a testament to how much board game illustrations improved over the last few years. That it's unavoidable that people are talking about. And now maybe it was just a matter of timing on my part that I came along when that was happening. But I think that when you look at the quality across the board of how board games look now from an, a visual aesthetic appeal, it's really common leaps and bounds.
Rebecca Strang (19:44):	Yeah, definitely. People definitely care a lot more about how the games that we play look than they did, you know, several years ago. And I love that your website has kind of taken off like it has, you know, that you're able to continue doing all these interviews. People are interested in hearing from these artists and how they do what they do and why it, it makes me really happy.
Ross Connell (20:09):	Yeah. I mean a large part of what drives my website is my own personal, it's for me like the, the I, I'm a strong believer if you do anything and if you want to be able to continue to do something, you should do it primarily for yourself. You shouldn't do it to please an invisible audience. So my two primary like drives for the website were, no one's talking about artists and I don't think that's right. I mean it's difficult to say that it's wrong that people are talking about artists, but I believe they should have more respect in the industry and they should be revered almost because, you know, without their illustration, we're just talking about squares and numbers really. And it for me at least, as much as I love a puzzle and I really do love puzzles, it's hard to buy in as easily without this incredible, you know, visual aesthetic. So firstly it was, you know, I think it should be up there on a similar pedestal to designers because I think in terms of world building, both of those two people have a huge part to play. Designers create the functionality and the things that make us engage with the games. However, if you want to believe in the games and if you want to believe in the worlds that are created, then words and illustrations have huge meaning and board games tend to lean heavily on illustration over, over a words. And then the second thing is I want to know about it. That's, and you need that. If you're going to continue to do any project, you need to be fascinated yourself. There's no cynicism on my part. I'm not like I'm going to get a lot of hit if I interview someone who's illustrate one game and is from outside the industry. I don't think anyone, will know who they are before I post it on their website, but I want to know more about them because I believe they're talented.
Rebecca Strang (21:58):	Well, I thank you for your curiosity and your drive to do it because I think the community as a whole benefits from it.
Ross Connell (22:06):	That's very kind of you to say.
Rebecca Strang (22:08):	So for folks who would like to contacting you for more information or just see what you're up to, where can they find you online?
Ross Connell (22:16):	Sure. There's lots of places. I am, I am everywhere on the internet. Arguably too much but I work from home, so you know, I'm always at a computer. So the easiest way to contact me if it's anything to do with illustration and art or product photography, I suppose I should get a plug in for that while we're here.
Rebecca Strang (22:34):	Definitely.
Ross Connell (22:34):	That would be hello@moregamesplease.com that's my website, email address and just for my business. If you want to just hear the ramblings of someone who is on Twitter too much, then you can follow me on Twitter as well. Uh, which is @moregamesPLS instead of please, because some person who tweeted once in 1805 has that handle. So,
Rebecca Strang (22:58):	Of course!
Ross Connell (22:59):	So impolite that they got there first. Anyway, so that's a way of following me. I also do post the games that I play in photographs of the games that I'm playing more than professional work on my Instagram, which is again, instagram.com @moregamesplease. So please or pls is generally how you'll find me on the internet.
Rebecca Strang (23:21):	Awesome. Well thank you so much for being on the show. This was great to talk with you about art and board games.
Ross Connell (23:28):	Thank you for having me. It's been an absolute pleasure.
Rebecca Strang (23:30):	And if our listeners have any questions or comments that you'd like to share with us, please email us at playabilitypod@gmail.com. You can also find us on major social media platforms @playabilitypod. Thanks again for listening. I hope this episode helps you play with a new perspective.