Lauren: 00:09 Hello and welcome back to Playability where we hold conversations at the crossroads of Gameplay and accessibility. I'm your host, Lauren. We'll see, and I'm here today with Alanna Cervenak of Asmadi Games. We're going to focus on her role as art director for one deck dungeon though at Gen con there were exciting demos of One Deck Galaxy, the continuation of the series. Alanna, Hi. How's it going? Alanna : 00:29 Hi. Good. It's going great. How are you? Lauren: 00:34 Fantastic. Let's discuss a short overview of the game play for context before we dive into the art and graphic design focus. Alanna : 00:42 Sure, yeah. One Deck Dungeon is a rogue like dice chucking type game where you are taking your hero and trying to get to the bottom of the dungeon by overcoming monsters and perils and leveling up your character and throwing a whole lot of dice to do it. Lauren: 01:00 And it can be played one to two players? Alanna: 01:03 Correct? Yes. Lauren: 01:04 Excellent. All right. Briefly talk me through the games art direction process from sort of the very beginning to where you are now with the new things coming out. Alanna : 01:13 Sure. So Chris, Chris came to me and he was like, I had this idea for a game, as he usually does and they're always great. So I was like, cool, I'm in. Tell me about it. And he'd come off for this whole concept for this, this rogue like dungeon game where he didn't really have anything else in the space where you could set it up and you could play it very quickly by yourself with one other person, whatever. So he really wanted to focus on something like that. So we started out managing our artists and we told them basically, we were working with, Will Pitzer at the time. And we were like, give us a warrior character. And he came back with a couple of different ideas, but the one that actually was used in the game was a female and we were like, this looks awesome. Alanna : 02:00 Let's go with that. And then we moved onto the next class and it was a rogue and he came back with another bunch of ideas. And the one that was also used in the game was our favorite and it was another female. So we just kind of, Chris, Will, and I were like, well what if they were all women? You know? It wasn't necessarily something that we started out with, but we thought no one's ever really done it before and it would be kind of cool. So we kind of went with that and then we did The Forest of Shadows expansion and we decided to keep that trend going for that and for, you know, unannounced, but other future expansions we're thinking about and looking into, we'll probably stick with it because we've gotten a lot of varied feedback, but most of it has been very positive. A lot of people really like the idea that you have this group of really cool, powerful women that are battling all of these dungeon monsters. Lauren: 02:57 Yeah, absolutely. Now the question that we always ask guests, what does accessibility mean to you? Alanna : 03:04 I think that, and I think this is really important, especially right now with what's going on in video games, tabletop, etc. I think accessibility means everyone can find a little something for them that they can relate to in a game. I think that it's really important that you have all kinds of different people from different backgrounds, different age groups, whatever, have the ability to play a game and there's, there's something in it where they're like, I, I see a little piece of myself in that game and that is something that we really are working pretty hard to achieve for this game. You know, we, we like to keep our characters really varied, you know, different ethnicities, different sizes, different ages. I, you know, especially I feel really strongly about the idea that sometimes women especially can feel a little alienated in this particular space. And, that is really something that I think is important that anyone can sit down and play this game and be like, you know what? I like this. There's something here that I like that I can relate to. Lauren: 04:08 Yeah, absolutely. Representation matters, especially when you don't necessarily see it around you with the people that you're playing with in a bigger space, like a game cafe or things like that. Alanna : 04:18 Right. Lauren: 04:19 You mentioned that no one's really done this before and that's absolutely true. And obviously there's countless games where all of the characters are male and, and no one ever says anything. You get any push back when the art was being finalized and posted online and things like that. Alanna : 04:37 Uh, yeah, we, we definitely, we did. It is a very small percentage of people, but this was something we were kind of prepared for, but we thought we kind of skirted past it and it wasn't going to be an issue. And then the base set of one deck dungeon came out. And for the most part it's, it's a thing that people don't even really realize at first. There's been so many people that are like, wow, I didn't even realize all of the characters were women, but there were a small group of people that noticed and thought that this is unfair because there is no male character that I can play. And I'm a man. And you know, that's fine. That's, that's totally those people's choice. That's alright. But, um, you know, we, we received kind of a negative blow back from that because these people then came and found my social media in particular and started sending me anonymous messages. Lauren: 05:32 Of course. Alanna: 05:33 You know, oh, of course. Right. Exactly. You know, it's like we had three people basically that made this decision, but the one female that was involved in this decision, that is who these people in particular chose to target. Lauren: 05:45 Right. Alanna: 05:46 So, you know, I got a lot of anonymous messages with some really awful stuff in it and I had to shut down all of my private messaging on Twitter and tumbler and all of that stuff for a while. And, you know, I'm really lucky in that Chris is very supportive of his entire team across all the games he makes. So he had no problem going on Reddit and places and being like, this is unacceptable. You can't, you know, attack my employees like this. And he was really great about the whole thing. But, um, you know, it was frustrating because you, you see this response and like you said, there are so many games that just feature all males in their cast and that's totally normal. Alanna : 06:30 And the fact that this became such a problem that people felt the need to go to this extreme to make sure that their opinion was heard was ridiculous. Honestly. You know, it's like you, you sit there and you're like, well, you have 99% of other games in which, you know, you are mostly playing as a male if only a male the entire time. So, you know, it's, it's one of those things where we talked a lot about it and people are like, well, will you ever make it so that there's like male cards and you know, it's and it's never something that we're ruling out, but you know, I think that it is important that until this doesn't need to be a conversational piece, we'll probably keep doing it. You know what I mean? Lauren: 07:14 Yeah, absolutely. It certainly is something where you knew there was going to be some amount of grumbling but just the over the top response is just unreasonable and, and unfortunate. But you're right, it's, it's a small percentage of people but they're so loud that it drowns everything else out. Sometimes Alanna : 07:34 it does and you know it can be, it can be frustrating being one of the people who works on something like this because I think a lot of times people put their opinion out there and you know, it's easy enough to write it on Reddit or you know, we've got when the, when the digital version of the game came out and it just came out about a month ago, we're seeing kind of a resurgence of that. It can be frustrating as an employee to have people be like, well these people have no idea what they're doing. They shouldn't be working in these jobs and you're sitting there on the other side of the Internet and you can see it and you can interact with all of it. And you know, for the most part we, we tend to just kind of brush it off. But you know it, it can, it can be frustrating if that's, you know, if you have all of these threads about the game on some forums and the one that has 10 times the amount of replies are people chipping back and forth at each other about the fact that all of the characters in the game are female. Lauren: 08:28 Right, exactly. Alanna: 08:29 So it's, you know, it's, it's one of those things where it's, I, I can't even believe it's a conversation that's happening that is like immediate to happen when somebody starts talking about the game. And that's where I think that the big problem is, is that it shouldn't be unusual that there are many female characters in this game. Lauren: 08:48 Exactly. Exactly. For the digital version, were there any changes that you to game play to get it onto the platform? Or was it something where it really was sort of primed to be in that format? Alanna : 09:01 I think for the most part it's remains. It was just good for clarifying the rules, Handelabra, you know, they were great to work with and I think they approached us about making an app for it because they thought that it was perfect for a digital format. So you know, it was good because there can be sometimes in the rules where you're like, oh, I'm not really sure how this is affected if these five things happen before this. So the digital version is always good for that because it is kind of the steadfast rules straight from Chris being like, no, this is what happens in this particular situation. Lauren: 09:35 Yeah. It can be less to keep track of too, which can certainly help get people into the game that might otherwise not have been able to pick it up. Alanna: 09:42 Right. Lauren: 09:43 In the physical. Alanna : 09:43 Correct. Yeah, and I mean for me, you know, it's so easy, if I have a bad role with one of my dice, I'm like, oops, I flicked the dice over and I'm like, oh look, it fell over on a six instead of a one. Awesome. The digital versions, like no, you can't do that. Lauren: 10:00 You're just trying to hit your tablet, and doesn't quite work the same way. Lauren: 10:05 Taking into consideration. The games theme and the mechanics and accessibility and everything. Who Do you have in mind is sort of the target audience for One Deck? Alanna : 10:14 I think that, and again it's a game that obviously we want everybody to be able to play and we strive for that. But one of the things that has been really important to us is we will take the game to places like Gen con, places like packs and you see a lot of young girls coming up seeing the poster, getting really excited. It's really cute. They'll be like pulling on their parents' hands being like, I want to play this game because look at all of the different girls you can play as. Lauren: 10:44 Yeah. Alanna: 10:44 And I think that is just so important. And you know, you somewhere like Gen con, you're in the dealer's hall and you just see poster after poster of just like, you know, big dudes and armor and I think it's really important that there's, you know, 50% of people who play games or women, you know, it's not just like a thing that's a boy's club anymore. And I think that the industry really needs to realize that. And I think that, you know, it's important that they can see themselves in a game not wearing ridiculous chainmail bikini armor. Lauren: 11:16 Absolutely. Yeah. Representation matters so much more than a lot of people give it credit for, especially for those who already see themselves in so many different games. You just take it for granted that that's a thing. Alanna: 11:29 Right. Lauren: 11:29 For others. Yeah. What would you say is your favorite part of the game? Alanna : 11:34 I actually, and you know, it's, it all comes back to the same thing. I, my favorite part genuinely is the characters themselves. We're actually currently working on story bits. So that's, yeah, that's been really exciting. I'm actually, so we had the lore book that came out as a stretch goal with the digital version that'll be to everybody soon. Uh, we got them to the backers first, but Chris was like, you're in charge of the lore. And I was like, cool, awesome. Because they had all of these pieces that Chris had created, all of these characters and all of these, you know, kind of monsters and villains, but we didn't really have any cohesive way to put them together. So, that has been something I've been working on in the past couple of months. So there was the lore book, which is from the point of view of the rogue and then we've been doing the artifact quests, which are on the website. Alanna : 12:25 And that basically it makes your game play a little harder. But after you complete each chapter, you get a little bit of backstory into each character, which has been really fun to write because they're all really cool looking characters. But they used to, you know, they were just there and you didn't really know anything about them. They didn't have any names, they didn't have a place that they came from or how they interacted with each other. And that is something we are really starting to build and flesh out. So that has been one of my favorite parts of this game is being able to piece them together and making them feel a little more real and a little more important to each other. Some of them get along, some of them don't. But at the core it's, you know, they're all just like a really good solid group of people and you know, that's been super fun. I've loved that. Lauren: 13:14 That's awesome. Do you have a favorite character? Alanna: 13:18 It is definitely the rogue. Her name's Remalia and she tells people to call her Remy because she's super spunky and fun. And there was something about her when we were doing the original four characters where she just like became really close to my heart. So when Handelabra was talking about doing the lore book, I was like, well, can I write this from the point of view of the rogue? Because I had all of these ideas for all of this like snarky dialogue and everyone was super onboard with it and they were like, absolutely go for it. And I think, Lauren: 13:49 That's fantastic. Alanna: 13:49 Yeah, it's been so much fun and I think she is just so spunky and great. And you know, I, I feel a little biased because I, you know, Handelabra will be like, okay, well for the startup of the digital game, what should we use as the icon? And I was like, well, what if it was Remys face? What did we put Remy here and here and here because Lauren: 14:13 Totally not biased. Alanna: 14:14 No, not at all. Definitely wink. But, uh, she just to me like encapsulates the whole feeling I think of what we were originally going forward. It's like, yeah, you know, this can be a little serious and you know, with the story it's starting to become a little more serious what you're doing. But ultimately it's like, let's go get some loot and let's go have a fun time and let's gather our friends and our Party and let's kill all these goblins. Let's go do that. I think she'll always be my favorite. Lauren: 14:45 Excellent. What do you think makes this game most memorable for players, especially those who are first getting into the, the world of One Deck? Alanna : 14:54 I think that it's, it's easy for anyone to play. There's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of rules to chug through as you're kind of getting used to the system, but it's really easy to just set up and sit down and play and uh, you know, that was something that was really important to Chris that we really wanted to be able to do. Where you, I think it goes back to that accessibility where, you know, it can be very overwhelming to start playing board games and tabletop games if you've never really done it before. Lauren: 15:24 Absolutely. Alanna: 15:25 Yeah. There's, there's so much stuff that's just, it's so, it's so overwhelming. It's so heavy. You feel like you have to sit down and read a novel to understand the rules and even then you might not feel like you understand the rules. And I've always been a fan of lighter games for that reason just because I think it's more fun to be able to sit down and then just interact with your friends instead of having to read through 100 pages of rules. Um, so that was something that, you know, we really tried to focus on where you could go to somewhere even like, you know, that's what I love about Gen Con is we get, we're able to go through a ton of different people doing demos for One Deck Dungeon because it's a simple setup. It's simple to start playing. The feeling of rolling your dice and throwing them on the table is like so satisfying. So you're like, yes, let's do that a bunch. And.. Lauren: 16:15 Yeah, especially when you get to have the full handful of the little dice. Alanna : 16:18 That's so good. And when I, you know, I remember an early production, we were looking at different versions of the dice and uh, the factory sent us a bunch of different ways that they could do it and we were looking at solid colored dice, but then the ones that are in the game, the kind of clear ones, I was like, Ooh, those look like really satisfying to just look at. And so I'm really glad we were able to do that. The production company was able to match the colors directly from the icons themselves for the magic and ... Lauren: 16:50 Perfect. Alanna: 16:51 stuff like that. And yeah, it was great. And I was like, oh, these look and feel so satisfying. But I, yeah, it's, I think it's just really great that you can just sit down and be like, you know what, there, there might be some things here and there where it's like, well, if this effect happens and this person rolls a three, does that actually take away this three? You know, there's some little things here and there that you'll, you know, discover can be a little tricky at first, but for the most part, you know it's like sit down, roll dice, have fun and you know, it's, that's Chris is pretty much his entire concept behind his company is making fun games. Lauren: 17:30 Yeah, definitely once you can get into right away. Alanna : 17:32 Yeah, exactly. Lauren: 17:33 So for our listeners who are interested in getting into these games, where can they get a copy of One Deck Dungeon and Forest of Shadows. Alanna : 17:41 So we have both of those available at the store http://asmadigames.com/. You can get them there. They are on Amazon, we sell through Amazon that you can find them. We're, I'm not sure what the stock is right now. The good, the great thing is we actually keep running out. We keep selling out of it. We can't keep it in stock. Lauren: 18:00 It's a good problem. Alanna: 18:00 It is, it is. It's really exciting. You, you should be able to find some in, you know, a big kind of tabletop type store. Um, the easiest way is probably http://asmadigames.com/. Lauren: 18:13 Excellent. And then the APP is available through Handelabra? Alanna : 18:16 Yeah, you can get that. You can go directly to the steam store and get it and it is also available on tablets both through the Apple Store and the Google Play store. It is also on android tablets. Lauren: 18:29 Perfect. That's awesome. Well, I know that I'm now in the mood to go pick up my copy and start planning. Alanna : 18:38 Great. Me to. Maybe I'll do that. Lauren: 18:40 There you go. Thank you so much for sitting down for this conversation. Alanna: 18:43 Thanks so much for having me. Lauren: 18:45 Yeah, it was fantastic. Awesome. Thank you. Alanna: 18:47 Alright, thanks. Lauren: 18:48 Thank you again to Alanna Cervenak for coming on Playability to talk with us about One Deck dungeon and the expanding lore and universe of this series. For more information about this game, the as Asmadi Games website and where to find the digital version of one deck, please see the about this episode section on our website at http://playabilitypod.com. If you have questions or comments you would like to share with us, please email us at playabilitypod@gmail.com and find us on major social media platforms as @PlayabilityPod. Thanks for listening and remember, play with a new perspective.