Zach Diamond 0:03 Welcome to the Modern Classrooms Project podcast. Each week, we bring you discussions with educators on how they use blended, self paced and mastery based learning to better serve their students. We believe teachers learn best from each other. So this is our way of lifting up the voices of leaders and innovators in our community. This is the Modern Classrooms Project podcast. Toni Rose Deanon 0:28 Hello, and welcome to episode 163 of the Modern Classrooms Project podcast. My name is Toni Rose Deanon, they/them pronouns, the Community Engagement Manager here at MCP, and I am joined by a high school design and innovation educator Joyce Pereira. Welcome, Joyce. Joyce Pereira 0:43 Oh, thank you so much. Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here. Toni Rose Deanon 0:47 It's so exciting to be in this space with you. Finally, I feel like I've seen your name all over social media, right. So it's like, it's just really nice to see your face and just have this conversation. And so thank you so much for saying yes to the podcast. And before we get started, this is something that I really enjoy asking anyone and everyone that I meet with is like, what is bringing you joy? Currently, Joyce Pereira 1:07 I love transforming chaos and complexity into order beauty and benefit to myself and those within my circles of influence. So that brings me joy every single day. Toni Rose Deanon 1:19 Oh, I love that. And so now I feel like I have to have you in my pocket. Because I feel like my life is just okay. It's just chaos. I feel that way. Oh, my goodness. So I'm excited. This is gonna be such a good conversation. And so tell us more about who you are and how you started your MCP journey and how you started just like your education journey, honestly. Yeah, so Joyce Pereira 1:41 I'm originally from Brazil. So but as it laid out a little shout out to all our Brazilian listeners out here. I actually began my journey with MCP when during COVID. I think that's a very, you know, common story that I've heard among other MCP colleagues. And during that time, my goal or my question worth answering that year was how can I optimize available resources to create opportunities for meaningful interactions and productive conversations? I felt I had lost that with the distancing and the online interactions. And as we were coming back into the classroom, I had formed very bad habits. And so I didn't want to blame COVID anymore. So I said, I, this is my question worth answering this year. And as I went in pursuit of it, I stumbled across modern classroom project. And I fell in love because they, the framework was not asking me to transform everything, it was just, you have resources, let's just restructure them, let's just reorganize them, and then fill in the gaps. And that really appealed to me. And I jumped on and completed the Mentor Program. And in that season, I met and made a lifelong friend and thought partner with my mentor, Megan, we still keep in touch. And we just work together and brainstorm at least once a month, we're still connecting and growing together as professionals and as humans. So I thoroughly recommend going through the classroom. And I'm currently going through the the mentor program myself to become a mentor. So I do the educator program. And now I'm in the mentor program. I think it's a good season to give back to this beautiful community that has invested so much, and has improved my practices. And I would like to give back by becoming a mentor myself. So here we go. I just started the journey. Toni Rose Deanon 3:48 Oh my gosh, that's so exciting. Joyce, congratulations. This is so cool to hear about just continuing to have a relationship with your mentor. Right. I know that I definitely still to this day, talk to a couple of my mentees when I was mentoring. And just kind of like catching up and just seeing how life is going and also seeing the how they've evolved. Right. And, and so this is really, really, really exciting. Mentoring was definitely one of my favorite things because it exposed me to so many different types of educators and so different types of schools and districts and like, it's mind boggling out here. Joyce Pereira 4:28 Yeah. I can imagine Toni Rose Deanon 4:31 really, really, really cool. Okay, so and then also, Joyce, I know that you work internationally as well. Joyce Pereira 4:39 I do. Yes, Toni Rose Deanon 4:40 yeah. And how long have you been doing that? Joyce Pereira 4:43 So I started being a local hire at an international school in Brazil, in Qurichiva down south of Brazil. And then I transitioned to the United States where I started working at Atlanta International School in Georgia, Atlanta, Georgia. And in 2020, I moved to Korea, South Korea, and I'm teaching now at Korea International School near Seoul. So this is my current experience, being very abroad on the other side of the world now, just experiencing teaching and learning in a new place in the new space. Toni Rose Deanon 5:17 I mean, those are all very different, right like Atlanta, Georgia. And then Seoul, Korea, like that is wild. And that's, that's really exciting. So thank you for just like, choosing a time at the end day that works for us to record. So I appreciate that. Okay, so this month, we're focusing on time management, essentially providing strategies for educators to feel joy and sanity again. So we have this beautiful tool available for us AI. Or some will say it's a very terrifying tool. So artificial intelligence, and you've done a really like you've done a good amount of things with AI just based off of like the posts that you've been sharing on social media, and just in our Facebook group. And so how can we use embrace accept AI to help manage our time as educators? Joyce Pereira 6:14 That's a great question. My first, my first response is, we need to identify what takes up most of our time and energy, what are the activities that are really taking up that time and energy and looking for tools, especially generative AI to help us optimize those workflows or those situations. So I tell my students, and I tell my colleagues that AI their results or their output, its output will be as simple or as sophisticated as your level of literacy. So if you really know what you need from it, the better the output will be. So if you have if you struggle with writing a difficult email, that's a pain point for me, if I have to have enter into a hard conversation, how do I frame that email, that takes up a lot of my time and energy. And I now use chat to BT. Gmail also has an add on called Ghost write, that you can use to help generate these kinds of emails. And you can select the tone, the length, and it just creates this really nice starting point to get you through that difficult barrier. Because you have all of these emotions that you know, your the receiver is going to have, and you just want to get the language started. And so I do see AI being used as a way to help us break down the things that take up so much time and energy. And that's where if you can clearly identify what are your pain points? Is it right in a difficult email? Is it you have a hard time generating some prompts? Do you have? Do you have a I don't know writer's block, do you have a hard time generating or going through ideation? So all of these things, these pain points can be minimized by asking AI. Okay, give me some ideas, get me started. And then going through and then adding your own touch. So I will always, of course, read and do my human verification of the email to incorporate some more customization and personalization. But I feel such a relief when at least the initial language is generated, so I can then go from there. Joyce Pereira 8:25 You know, it's really interesting, Joyce, that you mentioned emails right away. I absolutely despise emails. Only because it just adds up, right? It's like, oh, today, I got it all. I read everything. And then like, the next day, it's like 20-30 more emails, right? And so being able to create and manage, like the word language, like you said, right, like, and this is something that I'm telling my sister as well as, like, Hey, you got a blank page, go and use chat GPT to get you started. And then like reworded, revise it put in your own tone and your own like voice and that writing but at least you have something to start with, right. And, you know, being like someone who's neurodivergent right, like, it's really difficult for me to get started. So I need to have more guidance of like limb, like, show me how to get started and then I will take it right out. So I really, really appreciate you sharing that that fact and I mean like you know as you know, educators really don't like their emails as well because we get so many of them. did you know that there's also like an AI tool as well to like summarize your emails. So like if you're just like driving or whatever, they just like summarize all the emails from your principal or like a specific like student and I was like, Whoa, that's so cool. So then you don't actually have to go through all of the emails to read through and and I was just like, wow, that is such a cool tool to again save time, right. And enemy Even like this ghost, right thing that you're talking about choice, I didn't know that that was even an option. Joyce Pereira 10:06 There are so many add ons that are now that have been available but are becoming more so. And I love going through Google add ons. And again, if I know what my pain point is, I can better search for the tools that exist to integrate into the platforms I'm already using. And we'll start seeing we'll continue seeing this integration more and more, because Gmail was already predicting or offering predictions of what you were going to type, or what you could say, now they just amplified it, it's now enhanced, and now writes the full thing for you. And so yeah, having these add ons and these widgets integrated into the tools that we already have, has really optimized this workflow and minimize these pain points. Toni Rose Deanon 10:52 I love that so much. And also just like kudos to just saying, again, like we're working and being more intentional and reflective in our practices, right? Like, we have to sit first and figure out what our pain points are, like you said, and then find those tools to help with those pain points. We can't just like go in there blind or like going around knowing what we want, because then we'll just waste so much more time trying to go with tools are out there. Yes, yes. And yes. See, managing time already. I know. So okay. What are you mentioned ghost, right. But what are some other AI tools that you've used to help you free up more of your teacher time? Or just time in general? And then how did you come across these tools? Because like you said, the Google add ons, that's something that you set in your practice to like sift through, right. But for me, it's not part of my practice, I would really have to be intentional. And like making sure that I'm not getting lost in the sauce of just like finding all the tools that I can use. So any guidance on that? Joyce Pereira 11:56 Yeah, so currently my go to is chatgpt is just I'm excited to see what it does. And it has become my go to. And this the ghost write for my email. And I'm sure there are many other email generating AI tools that you can integrate. So definitely chatgpt has been my go to how we came across it well took the world by storm last year. That's how I became familiar with it. Google add ons was already a practice I had with my students. So I would just say what learning skills or what I taught in IB school. So we looked at the learner attribute, or the approaches to learning I said, Okay, what kinds of skills are we trying to develop? And what kinds of tools are out there for us to use to help us optimize or hone a skill? So I kind of went in already and saw since I, my school in the schools I've been at have been Google Suite tools. I would go to their ad and say, Okay, what can we do to add on to my Gmail, or to any of my Google services. So that kind of has been a practice that I was doing, just to kind of see what do we have available for bibliographies and citations, and every single Google product does have their manage add ons. And that's where I would go just to see what kinds of research are there to really help and support myself and my learners with what they need. So we were very purpose oriented, and every student selected different add ons, and I'd say try them out. If you don't use them, then let them go. And then you know, find something else. So it was more of an exploratory thing. And I'm just fascinated, but fascinated by these tools to see, you know, how do they make life easier how they optimize some things that could be automated, or could make things a little bit easier for myself. And a lot of these really powerful tools are integrating AI. So I love using Canva to generate visual summaries or just visualizations for my class and they're on it, they already integrated AI to generate images and posters and just visualize your information. And so I think we're gonna start seeing more and more of these wonderful products, they're going to start building an integrating AI into them. And they many of them already doing that. So for me, it's chats up at Google add ons and Canva have been my personal top three to get through the, the workflow that I have, I use code HS I teach programming, a little bit of context, I teach programming and hpcsa. And so I do a lot of debugging. And I currently use code HS as our platform for learning. And again, they are already on it. They've integrated ai ai into their grading system. They've integrated these tools to support the flow of learning on that platform. And debugging, oh my goodness, it's it's been night and day being able to get code that functions so much faster, because we're not looking for a semicolon anymore. We can, you know, ask chat, you would need to debug it for us, teach us you know, No, what was the mistake? What was the air, and then we're ready to do the next thing, the next part of our code. So they don't even get me start with debugging has been a game changer as a programming teacher. Toni Rose Deanon 15:13 Oh man, and I really appreciate like just your energy and your passion, right about AI and how it's just made your life a lot better. And as well as students too. And, and I really appreciate you saying like, the students, the learners have the ability to explore, and you give them the time and space to extend the permission to explore, right? Because sometimes we need permission to explore, and I want to disrupt that. And it's just the way it is right now. And that's okay, so like, providing that permission of like, hey, try out things to see if it works. And also like, what's the purpose? Like, if you're doing biographies? What are the great tools to help you biography trailer, again, being more intentional, and being so specific and centered so that you don't get lost in the sauce? As I would say, right. I, and when you talk about Canva Canva is, like you said, a game changer. Like, I do feel like I want to play with Canva a lot more, because of just all the AI tools that they've created to create the visuals that we need, actually, right. Like, there's no more having to Google specific, like, you know, things, you can just make it and create it, and then it's right there. And that I think is going to be so cool. It's gonna continue to be cool. And another thing that I really love about Canva, too, is like, you can have a headshot, you can make your headshot, like, Yeah, whatever picture you have, just like, a button up or like, fancy. And, like, that's so cool to me. Like, that is so so, so rad. Toni Rose Deanon 16:54 And again, I just want to really say that I appreciate all the resources that you've provided in the Facebook group of just like all the things that you do with your students and in your classes. And so I just again, really appreciate that. Thank you so much. And also just knowing that like, hey, coding programming women like yeah, yes. Toni Rose Deanon 17:21 So okay, well, then how can educators use AI in their modern classrooms or thinking about self pacing, or think about blended learning and mastery based learning, you kind of like alluded to some ways, right, but let's talk about it, let's talk about it some more. Joyce Pereira 17:36 So good. So I love to take things apart to their parts in their purposes. So when I think of how I have used AI to support me, I think about the parts of the modern classroom. So my do now is maybe I need something to help me generate a do now that is more customized or specific to a certain thing that I would like to review with my students. The the learning categories as well. So if I want to generate some must do or should do or aspire to do any extension, sometimes my pain point can be an extension, how do I really create an opportunity for students to extend or enhance their understanding? And so I can use chat TBT, or any other generative AI to support and help me get some ideas for extending or finding ways to enrich something. To create practice checks, oh my gosh, you can ask it to generate multiple choice questions, you can give it the content again, the more specific you are, the better the language that you're using to type in the the prompt, the better you are at prompt engineering. It's just incredible. All the different kinds of questions with answers and explanations you can have it generate for you. So every single part or every single step within the MC MCP framework can be generated, using or help, you can use AI to help you generate these components within the MCP framework. So mastery checks, we want to have a variety or range of them if students have to retake them. You don't want to give the same ones over and over again. But you can have an in copy paste things into jet GBT and say make some changes, you know? restructured this question asked this in three different ways. Like there's so many ways you can get AI to generate these resources for you, and just help you fill in the gaps like with whichever one you feel it's not working really well. You can get some ideas and ask AI to generate these resources for you. And it never gets tired. You can ask the same question in 100 different ways and it's a machine doesn't get tired, it will output an output and it can generate these resources for you to help you get through all the things and help you construct and generate these resources for you to use in the MCP classroom. Toni Rose Deanon 19:59 I have like a little request from you, Joyce and see if you have it. Because I know when I'm looking into charge up again, one of my favorite tools is something I use every day almost. And I'm curious the prompts, do you have your specific prompts that you use when whenever you're using tragic because I know for me, I have to continue playing with the prompts because I haven't mastered it completely. Joyce Pereira 20:27 So just some of them because I kind of do it on the spot as I'm going. So I should have a better structure or plan around writing the prompts, because I go into it as I need it. So for example, if I'm going through some really complex content, for example, we did AI in gaming. And there's this really complex algorithm called minimax. And I asked chatgpt to teach minimax, in a Dr. Seuss style, or teach min and max in a haiku. And I said, I want them to I want the playfulness. And so I just said, Let's teach this not from a computer science perspective, but from a language or literature perspective with poetry. And it did an awesome job. So I was able to, I guess, de escalate or bring down the anxiety around this very complex or seemingly complex algorithm. When you look at it, it's pretty gnarly. But when you kind of bring it down in a playful way, and I just asked her to do it, can you teach this? Or can you write a Dr. Seuss story around minimax? And it's quite nice. So just anyway, I would just again, really imagine how would I bring in different disciplines to really explain a complex topic in more of a playful way. And that would be one example that I would offer, and it's just quite a little haikus like they really summarize and condensed it in these little poetry snippets, and was very accurate. So I at least like posters and stories of this very complex algorithm, but in a playful in a more accessible way for students. In a non computer science logic way of teaching it, and chatgpt created that for me, and less than 30 seconds, Toni Rose Deanon 22:16 I wish that our listeners can see my face right now because I am just like, in awe, because then this makes it so much easier for interdisciplinary, right? Like, yes, you're doing computer science, you're doing coding and programming, but then you're like, taking in short stories and poetry and like, why that's so cool. That's so so cool. And I'm Yeah, and I'm sure that you could also do like a history lesson on that, right, like, and chat GPT, we'll put it together. Wow. Choice, this is, this is amazing. This is really, really cool. Joyce Pereira 22:54 It really, I love how you said interdisciplinary, because you can ask it to bring in and make connections for you that it's hard for us to do with the amount of information that's in our brains at every given moment as an educator. And you can ask this tool, but like, I want to make connections with these three disciplines. And if I have the literacy of what kind of connection I would like them to make, they can start building this really powerful resource, I can ask it, I've had it, we go through the design thinking process. And I asked them to generate different client profiles so that my students can, you know, interact with them. And I say, I would like this client to have these kinds of characteristics. And they'll create the story frame for that client. And it just generates all of these things. Because it's been trained on what is a client profile, like, it gets that information, and it generates exactly what we need and things that would take me hours to do either searching for examples online. But I can just ask for it. In every step of my design thinking process, I can say, generate examples, give me some ideation using non digital solutions or with digital suits. I give all these creative constraints to it. And it will output all the things and just makes the crafting of learning experiences are just so much more fun. I'm having fun. I will say I'm having so much fun watching it, bring all these ideas together. And or at least give the next iteration the next possibility of what that could do. And it's been an experience for sure. Toni Rose Deanon 24:32 I think Joyce I'm just now my mind is just like going all over the place, right? Because and now I'm like, holy cow. This is a great tool to make connection. So if you have students who are interested in in PlayStation five, or whatever game they're doing, you can make a connection with the content that you're teaching and have chat GPT create that connection for them right? Because now I'm thinking like for kids who absolutely love the rhyming pattern of Dr. Seuss, and they're learning Seeing an algorithm that's really gnarly, yeah, put it together. And like, there's a connection there. And then now it makes sense in my brain because it's something that I really, really like. Right? Well, I mean, talk about like personalization, right? Like, oh my goodness, talk about like, knowing your kids interests, and then connecting it all and aligning it with what we're teaching that is incredible. And then it's like, you know, I can already hear an educator be like, Well, I don't have time for that. Okay, great. Now we can teach our students or learners how to do it themselves so that we don't have to do it. Right. Like, if you like Roblox and I don't know anything about Roblox, go put it in the chatGPT to like, figure out like how to combine and connect your Roblox obsession to whatever we're learning. I want to go back in the classroom twice. Joyce Pereira 25:58 It will do it, it will do for you. And it is so powerful. And talk about customizing assessment. Like if you want to write questions that are catered to each student, it can like rewrite this assessment, you know, with this perspective, or with anime characters, like you can go to town with customizing your mastery checks to truly, you know, be linked to what the students are interested in or generate, you know, a series of questions that might accommodate or just connect with what their interests Absolutely. So much fun. Toni Rose Deanon 26:34 Oh, my gosh, I'm, like, so stoked. I'm so stoked for the future of education. I mean, I have been stoked, and now it's just more so like, wow, I you know, I knew that AI is amazing. But now like having this conversation with you, it's like, wow, that's so so, so cool. Okay, so so we're going to shift a little bit because, you know, we have a lot of folks who are hesitant, which rightfully so, right, like, that means that they're paying attention, it means that they are a little nervous, because it's going against all of their beliefs and values, and, and they're really honing in on like, how they're feeling about it, which is great, we're gonna welcome that. So then how do we create a space where our learners can use these tools? And it's not seen as like, cheating? Or an end all be all right? Like, because, yes, we can use chat GPT to create some really cool things for us. But we as humans still need to read through to make sure the accuracy is there absolutely. Makes sense, right? So how do we create a space where AI is welcomed, where AI is still being looked at and revised, and all of that good stuff as far as like the output, just to ensure that like, educators start feeling good about AI? Joyce Pereira 27:55 So my first, the first thing that comes to my mind is reframing. What is innovation? So we're not going to talk about AI. It's what does it mean to be innovative. And in the 16 years, I've been teaching, I look for patterns, I'm very patterns oriented, I look for them. And as soon as I see them, it grounds me. When I entered into the tech world, everything changed all the time. And quickly after my first year, I said, I have to find things that ground me. And so because it doesn't matter the technology, I have to know what grounds me what keeps me with my feet on the ground, and I will be ready for any technology that comes out because I cannot keep up with it. I was very naive, my first year teaching and I was quickly humbled and drugged to my senses, that I needed to find ways to ground myself. So I started to reframe innovation. And for me, when I teach innovation to students, I say innovation is about creatively using available knowledge and resources to meet human needs, and enhance human experiences. That's what we're doing. Any tool that comes our way is going to be helping us meet our needs enhance our experiences. And humans have been very innovative throughout history since the beginning of time. So what I do with myself and my students, I say we're going to trace any contemporary tool can be traced back to a human need. And you will see the story of innovation unfold. And we are just in a current chapter. And so I say let's invite let's let's put innovation and technology in its place. And let's remind ourselves what are all the different ways we were meeting our needs prior to this tool. And now how does this tool help amplify and take us to the next iteration? And one of the patterns is technology innovation is helping us go further faster. So I would spend hours debugging and trying and that is a lot of human potential wasted. It was necessary. But what a waste to find a semicolon, what a waste. And I'm like, because you're looking you're physically humanly tired going through all these lines of code. And it was It wasn't even a conceptual misunderstanding was just a semicolon wasn't placed in the proper location, and what a disservice to innovation into creating a solution. So I think my first thing is just inviting. Pete, inviting educators, let's humanize innovation. Let's see ways throughout history that we've been trying to solve this human need. And where does AI now fit in AI is now one more resource available to many of us? How can we use that to meet our needs and enhance our experiences that ours and those within our circles of influence, and I think that way of thinking has helped demystify, and just help ground my students a little bit more. And it's helped when I talk to colleagues just when we think about, for example, tracing stories of innovation is something that's very dear to my heart, because that is what has helped me humanize innovation. And I'll just give you some examples. And we'll see where it can go. So for example, sometimes you can trace a story of innovation based on a human need. Let's take telecommunication, I need to communicate over a distance. That's what telecommunication is today. We have text messaging, video conferencing, all the things. I invite my students to go back as far as they can go, what is the earliest form of communicating over distance? And they'll say shouting, because you're screaming to the other person, I'm like, great. What are the benefits and limitations? Well, the benefits is that I can speak to someone further away, the limitations is, I won't be able to stay and sustain this over time, I'll lose my voice. Everybody who is within hearing distance will hear the message it is not protected or private. So there it is. And then we start looking at different iterations smoke signals. And then we start looking at like just every single iteration that is bringing us to where we are today. Not every single one but meaningful ones. And I will say my favorite iteration of telecommunication is the pigeon carrier. Because there was once a human that looked at a pigeon, and said that there has potential and but they were an observer, they watched the animal they watched, you know, the interactions and its possibilities. And it was a booming business, the pigeon carrier was a booming business for a long time. In the realm of telecommunication. So these are the kinds of things I like to trace and I invite my students to think of different cultures what how did different cultures deal with telecommunication? How have different civilizations over time, met that need of telecommunication? And so I did that with AI. I said, What's the story of AI? And when we think about it, it's part of the story of humans compiling knowledge to make informed decisions. I am asking, I have compiled knowledge. And I am now tapping into that knowledge to help me make an informed decision or create a product based on that information. Humans have been compiling knowledge. Since the beginning of time, we're storytellers, which is why elders and a community had so much value, because they held the knowledge they had the experience, they had the knowledge of that community. And then again, just like we have problems with bias, and who's telling the story, that was also true, because a ruler, if you are the scribe in a certain dynasty, you cannot, you know, speak poorly of your ruler, you have to interpret that culture that society's culture and your rulers story through their lens. So bias, and, you know, the perspectives have always been skewed because we have to, you know, we're trying to as we consolidate and compile information, and capture information about a certain group, they were also limited to what was approved or not approved and who got to approve it. So these ideas aren't new, how we deal with that has changed. We have new resources available, and has definitely amplified many of our benefits, but also many of our problems too. But it's so interesting to be tracing the iterations just seeing how different cultures and throughout history, how humans have done this. And I don't know have you ever heard of the anti kithara mechanism by the Greeks? No, Joyce, so it's more oh my gosh, I'm going to Okay. So the Greeks designed this really intricate mechanical gear system that will it is is accurate till today, it will output the date and time of eclipses and astronomical events. Why would they create a machine like that, because we need to understand their society, their polytheistic, they wanted to make sure that their practices were aligned with their religion. And so they had mathematicians and astronomers who noticed patterns and developed a formula that they were able to transform into a mechanical algorithm. And that was used to generate output that would help them make a decision as a society of when things would take place. And that is one example of how they determined when the Olympics would take place, when in the year and what time and it is precise. It is old, but good technology, it works. So this idea of getting machines to automate and help us with decision making processes isn't new. So the concept of AI isn't new, getting a machine to do things for us is not new. Other cultures and civilizations in the past have been doing that. Oh, Joyce, Toni Rose Deanon 36:06 I feel like this is gonna be an episode that I'm gonna listen to every single day for like the next the rest of the year, because you're literally again, just My mind is blown with all of the things right? Like, when you when you consider innovation. It's true, right? Like you want to be able to look at history, you want to be able to see like the human needs and the solutions that we've provided. I just I love the fact that you just like covered so much in that right? Like the global need different cultures, biases perspective, like, all of that plays a role. And it's not necessarily a bad thing. Because we're creating, we're creating, Joyce Pereira 36:50 yes. And we all are, every culture is trying to meet their needs. I'm in Korea that Kim Chi culture, why did they create the kimchi culture? It's not only a human need, but it's the experience of the spices and how do we really optimize it's about preservation before refrigeration, you know, it's there's a story. And it's this really long culture, this kimchi culture. It's been such a joy to start seeing the many ways that humans throughout history have been innovative. And many times we think it has to be a technical tool, a technology tool, a digital tool, and it doesn't. I was just telling my students, if we embrace it just today, I said if we embrace the idea that innovation is about meeting human needs, and enhancing human experiences, it will look it can look small, it can look big. So I gave an example in my classroom, I have my trash bins in specific locations, for easy access for my students and myself. But then I noticed that when maintenance came in to fix up or clean up my area, where I had positioned it when the door was open was very difficult to access there was as all as gymnastics happening to get to it. And by watching and observing the difficulty, I now created a protocol for myself, because I know when they come in, I know through which door they come in, I now position is a routine that I do for myself, at the end of the day to position my trash bins in a space, that movement of furniture, I didn't need a new trash bin, you know, let me just redesign a trash but no, I just needed to relocate them, reposition them. And that repositioning enhanced that experience for that person as they came in to care for my space. And I told because that is the impact is small, because it's my small circle of influence and impact of this one person. But that is innovation, the repositioning of furniture can be an act of innovation, if it optimizes and enhances your experience in this environment and for those around you. So there's the kinds of examples I like to give them of non digital everyday ways to improve your experience of the world around you and for those within your circles of influence. Toni Rose Deanon 39:08 I want to be in your class. Can I Can I take your class, please? Oh my gosh, okay, you know, there's a lot more but listeners, we're gonna take a quick break real quick for an announcement and then when we come back, we'll talk a little bit more on innovation and how to, to actually like ethically and you know, ethically use innovation as well as like making sure that it is accessible and inclusive for even just that one person, right, so, okay. Zach Diamond 39:38 Hey there listeners, this is Zach. As you know, at the modern classrooms project, we believe deeply in student centered learning. We've seen it in classrooms all over the world. When you stepped down from the front of the classroom and commit to self paced mastery based instruction. You're actually able to meet all of your students needs, but we also know Know this style of teaching isn't necessarily mainstream, it's difficult. If you're looking for support and launching your modern classroom, join our free online course. Or sign up for our virtual mentorship program where expert educators can support and mentor you through creating your first fully self paced unit. Scholarships are available, so visit modern classrooms.org. Or check out the links in the show notes to apply and learn more. We also have some learning experiences for you this upcoming week. Check out the show notes for links to these events. So first, our community of educators have consistently raved about go guardian. So we invited them into our space. discover innovative classroom solutions in our webinar, Using go guardian in your modern classroom on Wednesday, November 8, at 6pm. Eastern Time to enhance your blended self paced, mastery based learning environment, want to meet other implementers from all over the world and troubleshoot all things modern classrooms, connect with our educators during our monthly implementer meet up on Wednesday, November 8, at 7pm. Eastern right after the Go Guardian webinar. Are you an educator with all types of learners in your class and looking for better ways to access resources to better serve all learners? We've partnered with educating all learners who provides curated searchable resources for all to access. Join us on Thursday, November ninth at 6pm. Eastern time. Finally, you've gone through the free course and the mentorship program and you're wondering what's next? Well, you can join us to learn more about becoming a distinguished modern classrooms educator or a DMC e in an info session on Thursday, November 9, at 7pm. Eastern time. Now let's get back into this very cool conversation about AI, with Joyce and Tony rose. Toni Rose Deanon 41:59 All right, and now we're back with Joyce, and I'm excited to continue this conversation because, again, you know, here at MCP and me specifically like it is a priority of mine to make learning accessible and inclusive, right, and you just like talked about how innovation is making sure that something is accessible for even if it's just one person, but I feel like that impact is so huge, right? Because I feel like when we make something accessible for one person, we make it accessible for all. That doesn't necessarily mean that like because I am making some changes for one person that is going to impact a different like a person in a negative way. Right? If anything, it's just going to enhance. And then like you said, it's all about observing and watching. Because we're not going to get it right the first time, right? Like we're gonna mess up a lot. Just because we're human beings do have biases, we do have perspective. And we have our own experiences. And so we have a lot of things that we lack, which is beautiful and scary and beautiful. Right? Yes. So when we think about innovation and AI, like how do you anticipate AI to make learning more accessible and inclusive? Joyce Pereira 43:18 My biggest excitement around this is how highly customizable it is. Which is if you have the language around the type of learner and what they need, you can generate highly customizable tools and resources for them. You have multilingual so you can translate things in an instant. And you can create resources that are more that can help them transition from their home language to whatever to English or whatever language we use in the classroom. So the high customization opportunity is such a space that we can tap into. When we think about again teaching students how to use chatgpt you can ask chatgpt to take on a persona a role. And you can ask it to be okay you are going to be my tutor again if they have the language if you can help them generate those prompts and say use these keywords and phrases. You can have chatgpt become a tutor where it asks questions, a series of questions on a topic and you're able to interact with it from it just asking you questions. So again, just like we were saying you can generate resources that are highly customizable to your learners. Whether it's language, whether it's I need to have this text district in different levels and I would like to have it rewritten or restructured in different ways. I need to have more spaces, whatever it is that you need to customize that experience for that learner. chatgpt and other a generative AI tools can do that they're highly customizable. So knowing what you need did in the language around that, like you can put in an IEP. And like be like really, you know, go through this IEP and generate some strategies that I can use to target this skill or target this thing. So you can feed it large quantities of data. And it can go through and extract patterns, and output some best practices. And you can ask it to do it in table format. So we'll organize it in a table and a visually organized way for you and your team or for you and your learners. It's highly customizable. I think that's the power. Toni Rose Deanon 45:36 Right. And that saves us so much time, right, as an educator, we're not, we're not starting off with a blank canvas, like, we have this thing that's assisting us. Because I know like, I was in the classroom for 10 years, and I was sped certified, I was ESL certified, so like, you all certified. So I had all kinds of students in my classes, and they just like, put it, put them all in there, which was beautiful. I love the diversity of it, right. And I think I really struggled with trying to figure out how I could differentiate for every single one of my students. And now you're telling me that ChatGPT is here. And I mean, even IEPs Joyce, I was like, overwhelmed with IPS, because I was like, these are long. Like, these are long, who got time to read all this. And at the same time, it's the law, you have to read it, Joyce Pereira 46:26 you have to so but now you have a tool, we have so much data already, we have these files, and we've documented these things. But sometimes like, Okay, I have this huge document I have it doesn't mean we always start from scratch, we have a lot of resources that we've that we've been handed, you know, over or that has been generated by the different specialists in our community, in our school and whatnot. And it's just so powerful to like, let me put all this in here into this machine, because it does it's not overwhelmed by the amount of data that you put into it. And just be like, Okay, what patterns do we know is what can we extract from this document that already exists? So it's not always the creation of things for us, but it's the interpretation of what we already have, how do we draw meaningful practices and meaningful next steps based on what already exists? And bringing those into a more meaningful and productive conversation? So yeah, definitely bringing in the resources that already exist and have been generated. Toni Rose Deanon 47:28 Yeah, I mean, this is again, just like so fascinating, right? So for example, even like, as a gen ed teacher, if I have a student who is dyslexic, right, and I have no idea about anything, you know about anything with dyslexia. And so now I can use chat GPT, to be like, Hey, I have this lesson. And I have a kid who's you know, who is dyslexic? And so like, how can I make this more accessible for them. And so then I'm not sitting there trying to figure it out. I already have ideas that's provided for me, and now like, saves me energy saves me brain space saves me time, right. And so that's really, really, really intriguing. And just so exciting. As far as like, teachers now have this tool to enhance everything that we're doing. And then as well as like, you know, what, learner like, advocate for yourself, do it, I'm going to teach you how to do it. So then you can utilize this tool whenever you don't have to use it just in my classroom, use it in your everyday life, because people are using it in their everyday life. Joyce Pereira 48:36 It just with your background, I was listening to you, you actually have such a rich vocabulary and literacy around the students that you have served. And for me, if I wanted to be able to tap into this is where we can have really interesting conversations with our school, our community, with our counselors, with everyone who's involved in the different facets of learning, because they have the language of vocab that will help me refine my prompt. And so sometimes I wouldn't even know the language to put in. But if I'm partnered with people say, teach me like give me key words and phrases that will really customize and help me interpret and understand how I can serve the student what kind of prompt I can generate, again, the better the vocabulary like dyslexia, if I don't know that word, I will not be able to ask it to generate research, and it can, but if I don't have the literacy or the language to engineer that prompt, it won't give me those kinds of solutions that I want. So just really that collaboration among educators and teams of educators will help build our language and vocabulary to build richer prompts, and get the machines to generate really meaningful resources to our students. Toni Rose Deanon 49:48 And I really appreciate you honing in on like the connections, right? It's still really important to have these conversations with colleagues to have conversations with folks that you would typically not have conversations with. Just so that you can expand your, your, your words and your knowledge because I know, for me when I speak to folks that like, I have nothing, I don't know anything about their culture or their identities or anything like that. And then they articulate something for me. I'm, like, so grateful that like, oh, that's the word that I've been looking for. And I didn't know that that was even the word that I needed. And so like the fear, I think of like AI taking over I mean, of course, that's, that's a fear, it's valid, right? And at the same time, it's also like, well, there's still a lot of human connection and human need for AI to function the way that they need to function. Toni Rose Deanon 50:39 So Joyce, I went to this conference, lesbians who tech and so we focused solely on it was so great, like being with queers, just like queer leaders and like, amazing trans non binary leaders in tech. And our focus was AI, this year's focus was AI. And so Google created Bard, have you had achance to play around with Bard? Joyce Pereira 51:04 Not yet? No, no, Toni Rose Deanon 51:06 and that's okay. I haven't either. But they, you know, they had a presentation about it. And it was such a powerful thing, because they, they, they acknowledge the fact that like, biases, and perspectives like still there. So like, if folks are asking a really problematic question on AI, right, like in AI using it, then AI could provide really painful and harmful information, right. And so, Bard is doing this thing, where they're trying to catch the biases, and they're trying to catch opinions. And I mean, Joyce is really cool, because then they could also fact check, right? Like, hey, in this study, it says this. But now, but also, however, we found other sites that says this. So it's not just like a validate my opinion. It's like, okay, you're asking something, here are studies and hear, like links to click on so you can fact check what it is that you're asking. And I was like, yes, Google? Yes, bar, that's exactly what we should be doing. Right? Like, because, you know, I'm a firm believer, like, we have confirmation bias. If we are looking for something, and it could be the most like, just awful thing, we're gonna find something to validate that thing, right. And so Bard is like, kind of, I don't wanna say ahead of the game, but it's more so like, they're being mindful. Like they understand that, like, folks are asking some real, interesting questions out there. And so. So what ethical, what other ethical considerations should educators keep in mind when using AI in the classroom, Joyce Pereira 52:53 so the acknowledgement of algorithmic bias is so important, we have to acknowledge that it exists. And when I teach my students, we've done AI and chatbots, we just finished our unit on it. I was showing them where the corpus where we're getting this, and I said, the corpus has been generated by humans, who got to speak, whose voice is represented, if I don't have access to technology, my voice is not in the corpus. And so just really being transparent with where this data is coming from, where who, where was it generated. And if you think about, it's people who had access to technology, that to generate the corpus that exists right now in which these tools are being created, and generated, the good stuff, and the bias and the bad stuff. And I think just having a really transparent conversation, and even modeling for them, alright, we're going to do this, we're going to output an every API generator has a human verification, you do a thumbs up, or thumbs down. And you comment, I tell the students use that if they if there is an output that is iffy, you're not really sure you click that thumbs down and give it some feedback. And so we do have an opportunity to be teaching and to be working with this algorithm by that human verification, it's a small thing, but it does exist and we should tap into it as we're using this tool. So I love the transparency that you said to acknowledge the the bias discussed discuss the generated output, explore it with students look at what it generated, how might it how might it be improved upon? What where's the error? And or if it did, so, for example, when you ask it to generate an essay, who determined that's the structure of an essay? Because in Brazil, we have a different writing style. Okay, but who gets to say that's the structure of an essay? And so what You start seeing this output who got to make that decision? Yes. So just having those transparent conversations and help them push back and whatever, you know, whatever forms that they can even starting with that verification, a thumbs up, thumbs down and a feedback, that is a starting point to push back on what was output. And it does, it does learn there are these algorithms that help it modify, if you do a thumbs down, it does go to a different data set, in order for it to be filtered through again. So you do have some power to start pushing back and some of the outputs that have been generated, and I tell my students, you tap into that you say, Nope, that's not, you know, it's not what I wanted, or I need you to reframe it with this perspective. And that pushback is necessary to keep teaching and feeding this machine. And I asked students, how do we get the voices that don't exist? Or that very soft? Because I tell them, it's based on patterns? Whoever speaks the loudest like whoever speaks more is the voice that's amplified on this tool. So how do we bring in the voices of the voiceless of the smaller communities? Of those who don't have access to it? Like those are questions worth answering? And those are like, how do we bring them in to the output into the corpus that is generating this output? Toni Rose Deanon 52:53 Oh, my gosh, I have chills. Joyce, I have chills, oh, my gosh, I have. I'm like, Can we do another podcast? Can we do more things? Because I feel like this is such it's a great conference. Beautiful, beautiful, yes, beautiful conversation. And I don't even think about the human verification, I'm literally the one that's like, ignore, ignore, ignore, but then you're right. This is a small patch. Like it's a small powerful move. And it's a way to push back. Because, you know, there's, there's lots of talks about algorithms being biased. So bias, right? And you're absolutely right, it is the person with the loudest voice, it is the person who has access to all of these things that are like putting all of these things in the machine. And so you're giving me so many thoughts. We're going to touch base after this just so that I can be like, How can I continue elevating your expertise and your skills and, and all of the things that you have to offer for our community because I'm, I'm just so amped right now, like, Oh, my God, this is so cool. Okay, we're literally just like touching the surface on this choice. And we're going to continue, I'm sure that our community is going to see more of you. And so I'm really, really excited about that. And so what do you I don't want to end the conversation. But I do want to be mindful of your time. What do you hope to see in the future? And what goals do you have? Joyce Pereira 57:35 I want to see us humanizing innovation, I want to see that tools are made to serve humans. And we all have limited time and energy. And I honor that, and I understand that. But I think this is a time where we have to ask what questions are worth answering? And what questions are worth our students time and energy? If they are copy pasting why why did they not get excited about the question you ask them? What are we asking them? And if schools decide that plagiarism is a question worth answering, and we're gonna, you know, locked down, we want to control and they feel that that is worth their time and energy, go for it. personally want to show it, they won't be able to see the paper? What questions do I think are worth answering these, the SDGs until these have been answered? I'm like, we need to talk about poverty. How do I learn calculus, and language and literature? And how do I bring all what I know, to help beat or tackle poverty in my community? Or sustainability? How can I use every family in education? These are questions worth answering. These are worth our time and energy, we can talk about all the others. And I'm not minimizing the concerns. But I'm saying there are so many bigger questions for us to answer. And we have such a powerful tool at our disposal. And I'm like, let's use it, to answer these questions to find solutions faster, and get us to these places of equity, sustainability faster. And so I'm like, I got no time for others. I want to talk about this. I want to get this taken care of. That's my hope for the future of innovation and education. Toni Rose Deanon 59:31 You are literally gonna be my new bestie and I've just like learned so much from you. I am so excited to elevate you and like continue to have you in our community to talk about this because Sustainable Development Goals. I forgot about those, bring them back. Yes, yes. Now I'm just gonna be like everything I do. I'm like, Yeah, Sustainable Development Goals. Like we gotta look at this. You got to look at this because these are the ones that are gonna make the more and the most impact, the most impact, right? It's not the Copy and Paste. It's not like that, you know? Work pebbles. We're moving pebbles and that. Oh my gosh, I'm so excited. Joyce, I'm so excited. Okay, so So how can our listeners connect with you? Because I'm sure, just like me, they're like, We want more of Joyce, where do we get Joyce? Joyce Pereira 1:00:21 Oh, yeah, I'm building my little footprint. But currently, I think Twitter X, as it now is called, is probably the best place where I am more visible. And that's where I just kind of share out my work. So it's at Joyce CLP. So at Joy CLP is my handle. And oh my goodness, we can message and start the conversation there and continue it wherever it needs to go. But I'm just so thankful for the opportunity to share. So thank you so much for creating the space and just inviting me in. I love being able to talk about this. And it's such a joy when I have a group of people and just someone interested in listening. And being a thought partner as we process these ideas. Toni Rose Deanon 1:01:08 Listeners, slide into those DMS Yeah, slide into those DMS. Thank you so much for joining us. This is definitely a highlight of my week. And so listeners remember, you can always email us at podcast@modernclassrooms.org And you can find the show notes for this episode at podcast.modernclassroom.org/ 163. We'll have these episodes transcript uploaded by Friday so be sure to check back to access those. Also we are asking our listeners to leave a review of this podcast has been helpful and supporting you to create a blended self paced, mastery based learning environment. It does help other folks find it. Thank you all for listening. Have a great week and we'll be back next Sunday. Joyce Pereira 1:01:48 Bye. Zach Diamond 1:01:54 Thank you so much for listening. You can find links to topics and tools we discussed in our show notes for this episode. And remember, you can learn more about our work at www.modernclassrooms.org. And you can learn the essentials of our model through our free course at learn.modernclassrooms.org. You can follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram @modernclassproj. That's p r o j we are so appreciative of all you do for students in schools. Have a great week and we'll be back next Sunday with another episode of the Modern Classrooms Project podcast.