Zach Diamond  0:03  
Welcome to the Modern Classrooms Project podcast. Each week, we bring you discussions with educators on how they use blended, self paced and mastery based learning to better serve their students. We believe teachers learn best from each other. So this is our way of lifting up the voices of leaders and innovators in our community. This is the Modern Classrooms Project podcast.

Toni Rose Deanon  0:28  
Hello, and welcome to episode 154 of the Modern Classrooms Project podcast. My name is Toni Rose Deanon, a Community Engagement Manager here at MCP and I am joined by Jamilah Pitts, social entrepreneur and author of Toward Liberation: Educational Practices in Activism, Healing and Love. Welcome, Jamilah.

Jamilah Pitts  0:48  
Thank you. Thank you. I'm so excited for this. I'm so excited for this conversation.

Toni Rose Deanon  0:54  
Yeah. And I mean, it's been since 2019, that we've been in the same space, can you imagine that it's been so long and so wild. And so I'm just like, fan girling. And I'm stumbling with my words. But it's just so exciting to be in this space with you. And just thank you so much for saying yes to the podcast. So before we get started, what is bringing you joy currently?

Jamilah Pitts  1:16  
That is such a beautiful question. I think immediately what is bringing me joy is just being able to be being able to operate in the fullness of my humanity, which I know and recognize, especially as a Black woman is not always afford it. And it's not easily afford it. So just being able to be I've had a really busy summer of just tons of movement 10s of holding space for others pouring out for others doing this dance between the really full work that I do, and the past few days have allowed for just ease and have and have allowed me to just be and so that is that has been joyful, like just the ability to be

Toni Rose Deanon  2:07  
Oh, and that's just so just amazing, right? Because I know when we allow ourselves to just be magical things happen. And something that I'm coming across a lot is like a reminder that we are human beings and not human doings. And I think I've just navigated my life just doing doing doing doing. So it's really nice to just like, take a breather and pause and as a recovering workaholic. It's really, really difficult sometimes for me to just be and that's okay, that's okay. Right. So thank you for sharing that. Okay, well tell us more about who you are and how you started your teaching and learning journey.

Jamilah Pitts  2:52  
Yeah, so that question just the Who am I is always, always really tricky. And I think it goes to what you just said in terms of in our world and our society, we're often so consumed with what we do, and that being attached to who we are. So I'll start with in terms of just the I am, I am Jamila and the fullness of of what that means. I'm very fortunate that the work that I am able to do and then the work that I've done, and particularly in the education space is an extension of who I am though it is not who I am. But in terms of just like the bio and my work. I am an educator, I am a writer, I am a wellness entrepreneur. I started my journey in education as a classroom teacher. I started teaching in Boston. And then I had the opportunity the privilege really to teach internationally in in the Dominican Republic for a couple years before deciding that I want it to return to the states and teach. I taught for some time in New York City before moving into school leadership. I worked as the dean, I worked as a coach and then I worked as a founding high school assistant principal in New York City. And then I ultimately or was moved to a place where I needed to honor my body I needed to honor myself. And I decided to resign from that position and lean into courageously this journey of being an entrepreneur. And so that work led me to found by consulting firms and my lipids consulting and I've had the privilege to work with schools across the country and in some international spaces, supporting educators, leaders and teachers and centering racial equity practices and centering social justice. And also being able to bridge in my work as I'll say someone who holds space for healing as a yoga teacher as a meditation guide as a Reiki practitioner. And so I'm in this really, really beautiful space now of being able to operate as an entrepreneur, both with the consulting firm, and then an organization that I launched, it's called she imprints and we serve at the intersection of wellness and justice for women and girls of the global majority. And that is right now, like my hearts work, being able to hold healing spaces for women and girls of the global majority so that we are nourished and poured back into. And then you mentioned this as well, it's just like, really full right now. But my first book toward liberation actually comes out in a couple of months and November. And so I guess, to add author to that, and so that is, that is the fullness of my being through my work right now.

Toni Rose Deanon  5:43  
I have to take all of that in, because you are just oh my gosh, what and you're in my circle how this is so, so, so dope. And I've again, like you and I've seen each other's journeys. And so I'm just really excited for all the things that you're doing, and all the things that you have done before. And, um, you know, something that really stuck out to me is like that honoring my body piece, right? Like, education is hard. And if you are part of the education system, it takes a toll on our mental health, our emotional health, and even our physical health. And so, sometimes our bodies are speaking to us, and we just ignore, because that's what we're used to doing. We just keep going, going, going going right. And then especially with like, the beginning of the year is coming, it's like, a lot of our a lot of our educators have already started and there are some that are going to start the end, you know, like next month. And so it's like, there's a lot of feelings that come when the first of when the first day of school comes around, right. Another thing that I really wanted to note too is that I love, love, love global majority. Like, yes, that is definitely a shift that we need to make with the words that we use, right. And so I love this whole concept of the global majority, because duh, like we are, you know, like, it's about time we put like a positive spin to it, instead of all the other words that have been used to describe folks of color. And so, again, like you've just you've just done some really incredible work on educators and taking back their time and taking care of themselves. Right. So how did you get into this work of healing and wellness, especially for Black women and women of color?

Jamilah Pitts  7:32  
That is a big question. So the, I would say the bulk of it, it's been deeply personal. And it's been deeply painful. And I think I know that teaching is an art form, I know that writing is an art form. And so much of so much of our most impactful work, our most powerful work, I believe, just can come from a place of pain can come from just these really robust, profound lived experiences. Yeah, like, like you just said, teaching can be such a sacrifice. It definitely, I think to teach well, can require all parts of you and can impact all parts of you. And that's something that I started to feel pretty early on in my teaching career. But I was early 20s. I mean, I went straight through college to grad school right into the classroom. And so I think I was maybe 23-24 When I started teaching, and the culture of schools. You know, schools are not removed from our society. I know that sometimes people like to think that schools are these isolated bubbles, but they are not they're microcosms of the society that they operate within. And so when we think about the placement of schools within a capitalist society, a lot of that grind culture and that the push and the emphasis to go go go to do do do. And then you add on top of that, this, the nature of teaching, the selflessness of teaching, which with in itself is not a bad thing. But neglecting yourself is not human. It is not You're not caring for the totality of who you are. And in schools, it's a really unique harm, because there's this understanding that in order for me to teach well, and for me to be a really great leader, if I'm an educational leader, I have to continuously pour out like, my selflessness is a badge of honor rather than it being my selflessness is a way that I'm actually neglecting my own humanity. And so for me, the the journey to this work was very personal. I think that I experienced burnout when no one was really talking about burnout. Like, that wasn't a thing. It was just this is just what we do. It's how we work, I started my teaching career in a charter school and not saying that this is the case for all charter schools. But for all of the charter schools that I worked in, there was a really toxic grind culture, a really toxic burnout culture. And so I actually found the yoga practice pretty early, and my teaching career and as someone who grew up dancing, I gravitate towards healing modalities and forms of exercise that feel really fluid in my body. Yoga was something that I found that balanced mind, body and spirit for me, and it just felt good to me. So I want to say in 2017 2018, I decided to become a yoga teacher. And again, it was just a deeper way to pour back into myself. But what was birthed out of that was this, not only political desire, but this really personal desire to continue to care for myself, but to also create pathways and opportunities to care for others. As a Black woman, I just see, and I pay attention to first other Black women and Black girls. And a part of that is really saying, women of the global majority and girls of the global majority and understanding, just this really integral and powerful role that we play. In any society, if you want to shift the culture of a place, or a space or a country or a time, you know, women and girls have a global majority, it's a really powerful place to start. And when we are, well, when we are healed, when we are taking care of just by our nature, we tend to make sure that everyone else around us is good. And so yeah, it started from a place of pain. And I believe that you can tap into your pain and shift it into a place of power. And that's what I've been able to do.

Toni Rose Deanon  11:57  
Yeah, I mean, I completely agree with that the pain and trying to get into power, right? That's something that I've been sitting with the past two weeks of just facing pain, I can't avoid it anymore. I've just kind of swept it under the rug. And, and so it's just now catching up like that rug is full, there's no more space. So I have to really just go ahead and face this pain, but also understanding that I still have the control of how I react to it, right? I could shift my mindset, I can do all these things, I have the power to do that. And so me avoiding it is no longer helping anyone. And I really like you know what you said like when we're well, we can take care of others the best way that we can. And I think, you know, also, like I started teaching at 22. And you're absolutely right about charter schools. And you and I have not worked at the same charter schools. So I have worked at a lot of charter schools, and I would have to agree that there is a, there's a an expectation and unspoken expectation that we just continue to show up for the kids, right? And which to me, like I love, like, my babies were everything to me, and I wanted to show up for them as best as I could. And also understanding that, like, I'm tired, I actually don't have the time and the energy to take care of me. I'm always constantly taking care of others. And I'm just now learning that in 2023, that I'm like, Oh, I I have, I have to take care of me. And this is something that I tell our educators all the time to is like, it's not selfish for us to take care of our needs. And I know that that's what society has been saying, especially for women of the global majority, right? That you just got to give, give, give, give give, you cannot pause and process and take care of you. You can't rest I mean, there's this whole, you know, thing about rest now, right, like rest is resistance. Rest is needed. Rest is life. But it's it's just so difficult for for people to do that, because that's just not what we've been doing. And I just really liked this like this. This phrase you said is a unique harm, right? Educators go in, not for the money. Definitely not for the money. And it's it's more so like, there's that love and passion for educating our young folks, right? And because of that there's so much just unsaid expectations and unrealistic expectations, honestly, to continue to show up for others even when you're not doing well. Right. And so thank you for just naming all of that. And so Jamila and I actually met through teaching for tolerance, which is now learning for justice and, and so whenever I see your name as the author for an article Jamilah, I swear I'm just like, click I'm gonna read that one. I want to read that one. And so the most recent article that I came across self care and the movement really resonated with me. It's also perfect timing, since it's the beginning of the school year. And again, we're talking about taking care of ourselves, right? And so tell us the how and the why of this article.

Jamilah Pitts  15:15  
Yeah, it, it comes from its, I don't write about things that I have not lived. There is so much that I'm still healing from and I resigned from working in schools, early 2020, right before the pandemic happened, did not know the pandemic was going to happen. Otherwise, I would not have opted to be unemployed. But it was something that was necessary. And I knew that if I didn't make that decision for myself, that my body was going to, or my mind was going to, in the ways that our minds and our bodies cry out. When, when we neglect care, or when we're in spaces, like I was that forced me, and a lot of ways to neglect my own care. But I also think it's just a part of where the the piece came from is not only where educators are at this, this time, I think that educators are always on a battlefield. I think that particularly folks who work as classroom teachers are always on the frontlines, or I like to say that they're in the trenches, always. But especially now in the social, social political climate that we're living in, in terms of, especially those of us who know that it's important to center Liberation and Justice and the work of education. There is a warning that is happening right now, there is a battle that's happening right now. And many teacher activists, many educators who who believe in this work and know that this work is essential, not just to the work that we do with young people, but to the livelihood of our nation and of our world. It's important, it is so necessary, it is foundational, it is crucial that we don't neglect our care. What tends to happen when we see a lot of the pushback when we see a lot of the legislation when we see a lot of the hatred, when we see a lot of the ignorance is for those of us who who are advocates who are activists, we can go into this kind of like the body does when it's you know, fight or flight, just moving into this space will where we're moving out of and out of a place of just a ton of adrenaline to respond to an attack. And that is what's happening in the education space right now. But it is incredibly important and learning for justice also wanted to put out this message that we that we remember to care for ourselves, I constantly go back to Audrey Lord's words, as a mantra in almost everything that I write when I'm talking about this, when she says that, you know, caring for myself is not so self indulgence, caring for myself, is self preservation. And that is an act of political warfare. And so we cannot continue to push back we cannot continue to fight. We cannot continue to act advocate and to be activists, if we are not well, like it just is not possible. You know, I think another piece is we've seen historically but also more recently, you know, a number of, of activists who who die by suicide, or activists or advocates who are not only in the education space, but in the activism space, receiving and experiencing harm, you know, due to the nature of the work. And so it is incredibly important to remember I like to think about this work as being holistic when we think about anti racist practices. When we're talking about social justice when we're talking about pursuing equity and liberation and freedom work that a part of that circle, a part of what it means to do this work holistically is making sure that we are well. And so this this article speaks to that and it speaks to how in a capitalist society that is also sexist and patriarchal and hosts a number of other types of isms and phobias, this attack on self care this attack on wellness, whether it's subtle or or indirect, right, not having the conversations around the importance of wellness and self care is a part of how oppression is sustained. Because people cannot resist if we're not well if we don't have the time to even think about you know, how do I freedom dream as Dr. Bettina Love talks about if I don't have the time and the space and the mental clarity to even think about how to make the world a better place. That is a part of how oppression is sustained. And so it just I think that the conversation is always timely. But I think especially given what is happening in terms of our democracy, what is happening in the education space, that remembering this piece of liberatory work is also incredibly important. 

Jamilah Pitts  20:16  
Whew. Jamilah, like the whole, all of that being a part of oppression, right, like, you're so right, like if we're not, if we don't have the time and the energy, we can't fight, we can't do the work that needs to be done. And I never even thought of it that way before. So that thank you for giving me something to sit with this week. And forever, I suppose. Yes, yes. Yes, it Yes. And I'm always constantly asking folks around me to like, how are you resting? Right now, like, I hear, you're telling me all of these things that you're doing? Which sounds fantastic. Also, tell me how are you resting? How are you taking care of yourself? How are you making sure that you have time to just stare at a wall or even just sit outside on the grass and feel all the things just being outside, right? And this is something that I'm also doing for myself, of like, okay, I'm working these many hours, I need to take breaks, I need to go on vacation, I need to go heal, I need to go take just I need to take a step back. Right. And so when you're thinking about this word, self care, and there's like an attack, right? There's also been, you know, a lot of influencers on social media who utilize this word self care for likes for money, right. And so this word has just been used over and over again. And I think when I first came across it, it was a definite like, scratching the surface. It was more so like, oh, it's self care, but I'm actually really being selfish and really being inconsiderate of others, right? So what what does this really mean to you? And is there like a right way to do self care?

Jamilah Pitts  22:08  
Yeah, I think you, you bring up a really good point in terms of whenever something and I think it's a great thing that we are having more conversations about wellness and healing and self care. But the downside of that, especially in our society, and the way that our society dysfunctions right now is when things become trending or buzzwords, we can move away from just the power and the impact of what we are actually talking about. And then yes, you have this added piece of, you know, in a capitalist society, it's, how do I take this thing? I mean, the same thing happened in the DEI space, you know, post 2020, how do I take something that is really powerful that people are talking about? But in this capitalist society, it's like, okay, now how do I capitalize or, you know, monetize off of this thing. And then what happens is, the value decreases. So in terms of self care, I don't think that there is a right or wrong way. We are all individuals, we are all, you know, having our human experience and the way that we are having a human experience. And what I need to be well and to care for myself may vary from what you need to be well and to care for yourself. So I think it's, and this is just speaking from my own journey. And I do believe that it is a journey, I don't know that you ever fully arrive at being I believe that we are home beings, I do believe that I do not believe that we are lacking, or that we are inadequate or incomplete in any kind of way. And that's just my own personal belief. But I do believe that this process of healing, of taking care of oneself, of just prioritizing our wellness is a lifelong journey, because we're going to, as long as we are living, we're going to continue to evolve, we are going to continue to expand, we're going to experience grief in various forms, our body will shift and change and evolve, our mind will shift and change and evolve. And so the way that we tend to what we need to be well in various seasons is going to look differently, the way that I care for myself in 2023 is very different than very different than the way that I care for myself, and 2018. And so I don't think that there's a right or wrong way. But when I am asked to talk about self care, wellness, healing, or I'm leading space around it, I do encourage people often just share what has worked for me. And I encourage folks to really think about it holistically. How are we caring about all aspects of ourselves? I think a part of what is happening In terms of talking about self care and wellness, and healing a lot right now it's like, again, it's very trending. And so sometimes we're focusing just on doing the things that's going to make someone else money. Like, listen, I'm all for a manicure and a pedicure. I love getting massages, like, all of that is wonderful. And it is a part of self care. But we also have to think about who we are in our entirety, like, what do you need to physically be? Well? What do you need mentally to be well, emotionally to be? Well, if you're, if it's if this resonates with you like what is? What do you need to be spiritually? Well, to care for your emotional self? If you're someone who's into energetic work and the energetic body, what do you need to energetically be? Well, what do you need in terms of your relationships and boundaries and communication? What do you need financially? You know, to be well, that is a part of it. You know, what do you need in terms of like, all aspects of your being in terms of your pleasure in terms of your joy? And so it is, there's a wide range, and I encourage people to just think about that, like, who am I holistically, like, who am I as an entire being? And then what do all parts of me need to be? Well, like, what does my inner child need, you know, is therapy and I'm a huge advocate, you know, for therapy, and I love that we're having more conversations around stigmas around mental health, particularly in communities of the global majority. And what does it look like to work against those, those barriers, and those stigma stigmas around it. And it's a beautiful thing that's happening in the world right now. Like I could go on and on, like, I'm really into, like wellness and healing, because I see the power of personally, what happens to me, when I'm able to center my healing and being well look at how not only has my life transformed, but how are my relationships transformed. And ultimately, I think it's how we heal the world. I think it's how we transform the world. And thinking about that. So I don't think that there's a right or wrong way. But I do think that a great place to start is to think about it holistically. And what do all parts of me,

Toni Rose Deanon  27:13  
yeah, that's a really, it's a really good point to Jamilah. Because I was definitely the one that was like, I'm gonna get a manicure and pedicure that is self care, and really, still avoiding that, that deep, painful work that I needed to do. And I didn't realize that I was avoiding so much until I left the classroom, where I actually had the time to take care of me because I was so busy taking care of my 80 Plus kids that I was working with, as well as my colleagues, you know, and the families that I worked with. And so, you know, I love teaching, I love everything about it. But I also used that as a way for me to not do the work because I was so busy, quote, unquote, fixing things and people and, and you're absolutely right. Like, as human beings, we are a hole, we're not lacking anything, right. But for me, it was just this, like, oh, like, my student is going through this hole. Let me fix it real quick, or like this problem is arising for someone else, let me go ahead and fix that. And while I was over here, busy, like, quote, unquote, fixing everything, and everyone, I was like, crumbling, and I continued to lose sight of who I was, as an individual. And so yeah, it's just like, it's, it's, it's scary to face who we really are as individuals. And I think it's so much easier to blame external things. Right. And this was a conversation that I had with a really good friend of mine this week was that, you know, she had been reading a lot of my writing, and she said, you know, a lot of your writing stems from pain. Also, it's a lot of external blame. So, you know, she's like, and I wonder how we could look deep within dig deeper within and see, like, start looking at it internally, and what's happening and what we can control and what we can shift instead of always constantly blaming other things other people, the environment, whatever it is, right. And so I was like, huh, thanks for the call out. I was a call out I didn't think I needed but clearly I do. And so I just, I really appreciate just that reminder, right? Like we are whole, and how we take care of ourselves now will probably be different than how we take care of ourselves and three months in a year, in five years, right. And so I often, like catch myself thinking like, well, I should have done this. And it's like, no, I'm doing it now. And that's what matters is that I'm doing it right at this moment. instead of not even realizing you're not even being aware. And so I have to like, shift that, right? Instead of like blaming myself for not knowing any better, I want to celebrate the fact that I know now. And I think that's really important too. And sometimes I feel like as educators, we need that permission to celebrate ourselves, which is wild to me, right? And I'm always asking, you know, like, hey, like, what, what? Well, right? Because, again, as human as human beings, we're so it's just an automatic, it's like nature, right? Like for us to think of all the negative things that happened. And so shifting to like, let's talk about what what Well, today, before we dive into, like, all the things that went wrong, because we do want to, we want to celebrate, even if it's just like little wins, right? And so I'm really curious, what are the impacts of not actually taking care of ourselves, especially if you're an educator of like, little things that we don't know, those are signs from our body? Or signs that just like we need to rest? Or, you know, do some healing? What are some, I don't want to say symptoms, like just signs that sometimes we just overlook?

Jamilah Pitts  31:19  
Yeah, I wish somebody you know, I wish people were having these conversations when I, when I was in the classroom, certainly, but just working in the education space, especially when I moved into leadership, I probably would still be working in schools, if that were the case, I can speak to definitely just my personal experience, and some of the patterns that I've picked up in just holding space for educators and working with educators in terms of some of the signs or symptoms. I think that you brought up a really good point in terms of just the self neglect that's happening when we are whether it's directly or indirectly focusing on young people focusing on what's happening within the schools, you know, putting out fires that are happening within the schools. And we're not neglecting, we're neglecting ourselves. And so I think a part of that is even just the pausing and really thinking about in terms of the ratio and the time and how I'm spending my day, how much of that how much of my mental energy, my physical energy is fixated and focused on someone else, you know, versus myself, I think that that's a, a huge one. This one is really small, but really important. It was something that I noticed one day, when I was working as a school leader, I didn't I never had time for lunch break, like, never had time for a lunch break. There were months at a time, where I never left the building. I never, you know, had any fresh air. There were some schools where I could just like leave for a moment grab something to eat and come back. But then there were other schools when there just wasn't even a single time where I've had time to even nourish myself. So it's like, what are you eating? I'm a huge advocate for just using food as medicine and food as nourishment. And, you know, paying attention to what am I? What am I putting into my body? What do I have time to put into my body? For me, there were a lot of physical symptoms that I was not okay. My sleep was really interrupted, if we're not sleeping, if we're not resting well like that is when the body heals. And so if our sleep is interrupted, that is a really key indicator, both in terms of mental and physical health, that that something is, is off, you know that our body is physically not able to do something or isn't doing something that that we're intended to do. One of the other things that popped up for me was just mentally it was getting to a place of just not being well, I had been in therapy for quite some time. But then I got to a point where and I'm an advocate for mental health care, I'm an advocate for mental health care in the way that you need it. And I started to have to have conversations with myself around how I felt about medication, because there was a point in my career and working directly in schools where I didn't need to, I needed medication to function. And so you know, that was that was a part of it, just feeling like I'm mentally was not going to be okay with the just the pressure, the toxicity that I was experiencing. Also as someone who my instincts are really key indicator was like having consistently like, really, really painful menstrual cycles. And as a Black woman, as a woman of the global majority, we're often just kind of dismissed when we talk about that kind of pain. Um, but it's actually not normal, like your pain is a is your body's way of saying that like, something's not right here and that it needs attention and care. That was a huge one for me having digestive issues. So a lot of these things I ignore, but now that I'm in this space that I am now I realized that a lot of these were red flags, red flags, these were symptoms, these were, these were signs at one point, like my hair was falling out, like different things was happening to my skin. And so our body is incredibly intelligent, and it speaks to us. And I think that when you're in an in an environment where it's Go, go, go. Even if your body is speaking, and you're starting to pay attention to it, if you're in an environment where we're a leader, or you know, the culture is not one of care. And I definitely was working in spaces where there was not a culture of care, but even added on to that, you know, people that I was working with, and around, you know, what, say really harmful things to me. Because I was choosing to care for myself or because, you know, I was diving more into my wellness journey. And so if there's like a negative, like, culture of people, like if other people around you are also not caring for themselves, and they see it as a badge of honor to not care for themselves, like, I think that that's a sign and a symptom as well. But there are a number of ways that the body speaks to us, there are a number of ways that our mind speaks to us and tells us like, hey, I need some attention and care. And I'm not as well as I could be. I also want to name just as a Black woman, because in educational spaces, in workspaces, we tend to one there's not a ton of mental health research around what mental illnesses like how it shows up, and it manifests specifically for Black women. And so certain things like when we're really irritable, and a lot of that being connected to the fact that we're malnourished and we haven't slept well. And then we're having to deal with like, patriarchal stuff and you know, sexes, stuff and, and racist stuff. And I'm saying stuff, I want to say another word, but I'm saying stuff. Like that is going to take a toll on your, your mental health, your emotional health on your, who you are as a as a spiritual being. And if you don't know anyone who's like, well and wonderful and giddy, and excited when they're malnourished, and they're not able to rest. But then there's this double and triple toll that we experience as Black women, like, you know, God forbid, I don't smile that day, or I don't laugh that day, or I'm feeling I have low energy, or I'm feeling like really irritable. And then I'm this angry Black woman. And so there are a lot of different ways that our body speaks to us and seeks to get our attention. And when we're in environments, like schools that don't always prioritize our care. We don't always we don't always see that. So I appreciate you for asking that. I really wish someone was having these conversations way back when when I was working in schools.

Toni Rose Deanon  38:14  
I mean, same same, right, like, and it's again, like going back to like the comment of like, dang, I should have known these, but I just didn't. And so now I'm just glad that, like you said, we're having conversations about it. There is also this book that I read, The Body Keeps the Score. And it's just all about how our body just like soaks up all the things that are happening to us. And we really have to take, just pause, and just breathe and figure out like what is happening and listening to our bodies. And I know something that I've done now with my own practice, daily practice is like, I put a timer or like a reminder on my phone to be like, Hey, are you okay? Check in with your body. And that's been really helpful, especially with my brain and how my brain works. Like, I need those reminders to tell me to pause or else I will just work all day every day. Not even, like look up from my computer, right? And so, you know, figure out how you can set reminders for yourself to just check in even if it's just like a two minute check in and see like what is happening in your body right now. And I think that also works with like any decision or any situation you find yourself in right like this. Take a moment to pause and see how it's feeling because like you said, our bodies are so intelligent, and I wish I would have known this earlier.

Toni Rose Deanon  39:40  
And I'm just so happy that I'm listening to my body now, because everything makes so much sense now. And so thank you for just like naming all those things. Jamilah, I think that there's definitely more conversation I need to be had over all the things that you just talked about. Right? And so listeners we're going to take a quick break for an announcement and When we come back we'll talk a little bit more about Jamilah's journey. 

Toni Rose Deanon  40:06  
Hey, MCP community. Here's some learning experiences for the upcoming week. If you identify as an educator of color join our monthly shades of excellence committee meeting on the fourth Monday of every month. We have one coming up on Monday, August 28, at 7pm Eastern time to connect and learn alongside other educators of color. We also have a workshop on Thursday, August 31, at 6pm Eastern Time on unlocking reading through self paced learning. We have three MCP mentors who will be joining us one elementary one middle school and one high school educator who will provide strategies and support on how to teach reading, using a blended self paced mastery based learning approach. Make sure you register to get the resources even if you can't make it. All links can be found on the show notes. 

Toni Rose Deanon  40:53  
All right, we're back with Jamilah. So this month, we're focusing on embracing resistance. It's been an interesting journey for me hearing other folks descriptions, feelings reactions when they hear this so when you heard it, what, what came up for you, how do you define resistance? And how can we embrace resistance?

Jamilah Pitts  41:12  
You Yeah, the first thing that comes to mind for me and hearing resistance is like the the first image that popped in my mind is just what happened down recently in Alabama, on the water is like a form of resistance like this very physical, visceral, but also needed response of bodies to respond to decades and centuries of just harm and oppression. And people being like, enough is enough, and I'm not having it. So that's the first thing that comes to mind. But also what comes to mind into resistance. And I when I'm working with educators, and we talk about activism, and we talk about resistance, I show this wheel that that shows that there are very different ways that people can resist, I remember when I would talk about and teach into the civil rights movement with students, and pointing to the number of different ways you know that people resist and people push back against something that is unlawful, something that hurts something that is harmful, something that is deeply rooted, or sometimes it can be just resistance in the sense of sneezing, like, you inhale something, and your body is like, no thank you, and pushing that back out. And so it can look a number of different ways. And I think, you know, what is powerful about resistance, no movement of resistance within our country, you know, has been successful one without the presence of the impact of young people, they have often been, you know, on the frontlines, and the drivers of resistance, but it's also been the civil rights movement is coming back to me, for some reason in this particular moment. But yes, we have the male leaders that were getting a lot of attention. But then I also think about people like Ella Baker, you know, Black women who were behind the scenes who were strategists who were not looking to have all of this attention and to necessarily be in the limelight, but their, their their activism, their resistance was behind the scenes, it was in mobilizing young people so that the resistance was was sustainable. I'm thinking about, you know, after marches, and people were, you know, physically harmed and a lot of that brutality landed physically on their bodies, and thinking about the nurses and the women who, and people tended to care to caring for people who were harmed. I'm thinking about folks who fit people in their kitchens. So I'm, I'm shifting from thinking about like, just this massive physical resistance that we you know, we've seen recently, historically, but also the, the various small though incredibly important ways that people resist and push back against something that is harmful and not just for the sake of pushing back or in some cases when people have met violence with violence. But for the sake of what's on the other side of the resistance, which is liberation, which is shifting, which is healing, which is remedying, which is the repair. So yeah, that's, that's what comes to mind to me, comes to my mind in terms of resistance.

Toni Rose Deanon  44:40  
And I'm really glad that you brought up the Montgomery brawl that is still so much to unpack. I mean, I've been in the Philippines for three months, and that's what I came back to it. I was like, why are people posting on their social media like, messed up crocs, these, you know, these white folks like, handcuffed what is happening and so that the internet went wild with that one, the clapback has been really entertaining to say the least. And so you're right with like the embracing resistance, right? There's so many ways to show up. And I think, you know, with everything that's happening, too, I know that I like for me, I was looking at social media, and I was like, oh, I need to do ABCD. Right? And it's like, no, actually, I need to do what I am comfortable with, first of all, and also like, look at my skill set, and what I can do with my skill set, like if it's something that I can do, that I feel comfortable with. And also like, I know that this is a strength of mine, that I can do it this way. That's what I need to focus on, as opposed to like comparing myself with like other activists who are doing all the work in different ways, right. And I just really just something that I've been saying a lot to, which is like moving pebbles, because I get overwhelmed a lot, Jamila, like, my my neuro divergence comes out, and I want to do all the things. And then I get so sad because I feel really big emotions. And I get really, really sad when I feel like I'm not doing enough. And so a reminder for myself is like, you're moving pebbles. And if that's all you could do right now, that's all you can do right now. And that's okay. Right? Like, the work that we're doing now is not, it's not going to take overnight, it's gonna take years and years of unpacking and unlearning and relearning, and so I can't put the big burden on myself to like, do a big gesture and make a big impact overnight. And so like, for me, it's just like moving pebbles. And for me, it's like, hey, let's have conversations like these because this is needed. Like, we've avoided it for so long. Or we've just like, we were too scared to talk about it, or whatever the reason may be, but like having conversations really open up so much more opportunities to figure out how we can better ourselves for each other. Right. And so thank you for that. So let's, let's shift, you have a book coming out, which she said, I mean, congratulations on writing toward liberation, educational practices, rooted in activism, healing and love, like, what a beautiful title. And I'm so excited to read this. It's coming out on November 7. So tell us your process of creating this like baby of yours. Like, I feel like, I'm looking forward to reading it just because I know that I'm going to learn so much. But how did you decide? You know, like, just just talk us through this process? 

Jamilah Pitts  47:46  
Yeah, it's, it's Wow, it's, it's definitely, wow, I can't believe the time is here. So I actually was approached to I mean, I've been writing for ever. I'm a writer started publishing with learning, teaching, I was teaching tolerance at the time learning for justice now. But I was approached in 2019, a dear friend of ours, Liz Kleinrock was, and was working on her first book and interviewed me, at the time I was working as a school leader and interviewing interviewed me on some of the work that I had published before. And then I was approached to write. And that was in 2019. And so it's, it's been a journey, you know, to this text, it was really challenging to, I would say, complete in the midst of everything that happened, like with the pandemic, and then this, what I would call is like a long overdue racial awakening that happened. Post George Floyd and breonna, Taylor, and just doing the work that I do in the consulting space. But it has been, it was really difficult to narrow down, like, what do I write about? There's so much to say, as an educator, there's so much that I've seen in my classrooms, and at the time, I was a school leader. And so that was the different perspective that I had then. But really, I came back to just what's in my heart, and really understanding that all of this work that we're talking about when we're talking about social justice, when we're talking about anti racism, for me the conversation, it does not stop there. And it does doesn't just start there. For me, the goal is liberation. And so it's thinking about folks who are relegated to the margins of society and really thinking about how we use the vehicle of education, a really, really powerful vehicle to not only ensure anti racism, but and I say this in the book, I say this in my work You know, I think it's powerful to talk about racism, but we can't talk about racism and not talk about other isms and phobias, and especially as a black woman, right. So if I'm thinking about my lived experience, if we are just talking about racism, and we should be, we should be talking about racism, and we should be talking about and not just talking about, there should be a lot of action that's happening. And there ought to be and continue to be, and it should be sustained. But we also have to think about folks who are who sit at this really deep and powerful intersection of harm. So those of us who are because of our, you know, beautiful identities, we can experience multiple forms of oppression simultaneously. And so I really in the book, I open up that conversation around, you know, how do we use the platform, the vehicle that we have, not only as classroom teachers, but as educational leaders, because we do have so much power, we have so much influence, as James Baldwin says, and I talk to teachers alike, we work with the hearts and the minds of young people, and that is power. And so how do we leverage that? What does that look like practically in the book I go through, you know, I provide some very practical ways like I get questions from educators all the time, like, Hey, I believe in this work, but how do I do it? That is a lot of the work that I'm doing, you know, in my consulting, I'm like, This is how you do it. This is how you structure your your scope and sequence. These are the types of essential questions that you ask, this is what you set your enduring understandings up to do this is how you can approach a lesson plan. But then we also have I also have in, you know, other aspects of the book as an educational leader, what is my role? And what does it look like to ensure liberation? You know, for me, all of this is about love. I know that we're in a state in a place right now, in our country where folks are really divided, I think part of it is, you know, this country has long had a really difficult relationship with truth telling. There's a whole chapter in there on truth telling and our role as educators to do that, but how do we center truth telling as educators? How do we center activism? Certainly a part of this is our own healing and our self care, there's two chapters in there around that. And then what does it look like and our role as educators because we all come back to this word of love, right? This action of love? What does it actually look like to do that, and we cannot talk about loving our students and ignore or not tap into not teaching to not lead into the ways that so many of our young people are harmed. And so without tapping into and paying attention to all of those pieces, we don't get to liberation. And so that is that is what the book sets us up, to be able to do and to continue to do and I'm, I'm super, super excited for it to be out in the world. And to be one voice. There's so many other incredible authors and writers and educators who are putting forth working with put forth work in the past. And I'm really excited to be able to add this to our, our Canon to our space.

Toni Rose Deanon  53:14  
Yeah, and I'm so excited to read it. And I'm excited to just continue having conversations like this with you and also partnering it with action, right? So, okay, so Jamilah, how can our listeners connect with you? Because I know we've we're gonna get some like, hey, we want to connect with Jamal because I have so many questions, or things resonated with me, how can they connect with you?

Jamilah Pitts  53:35  
Yeah, so there are fewer few ways, my website jamilahpitts.com. Also, I do, I don't live on Instagram. But I've learned to lean into social media @msjamilahpitts. And then I also have a LinkedIn Jamilah Pitts. And my email address is also on my website. It's hello@jamilahpitts.com.

Toni Rose Deanon  53:58  
And we will have all of this in the show notes. We'll have Jamilah's article with Learning for Justice, also the link to preorder Jamilah's book. And so we'll have all of this in the show notes that you all can just click on and check out. And so with that being said, thank you so much for your time and energy Jamilah this was just everything I needed today, honestly, and it's just so nice to catch up after many years of not being in the same physical space. So we got a we got to change that at some point. So, listeners remember, you can always email us at podcast at modern classroom set. org and you can find the show notes for this episode at podcast.modernclassrooms.org slash 154. We'll have this episode's transcript uploaded by Friday so be sure to check back to access those. Thank you all for listening. Have a great week and we'll be back next Sunday.

Zach Diamond  54:51  
Thank you so much for listening. You can find links to topics and tools we discussed in our show notes for this episode. And remember, you can learn more about our work at www.modernclassrooms.org. And you can learn the essentials of our model through our free course at learn.modernclassrooms.org. You can follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram @modernclassproj. That's p r o. J. We are so appreciative of all you do for students in schools. Have a great week, and we'll be back next Sunday with another episode of the Modern Classrooms Project podcast.