Zach Diamond 0:03 Welcome to the modern classrooms project podcast. Each week, we bring you discussions with educators on how they use blended, self paced and mastery based learning to better serve their students. We believe teachers learn best from each other. So this is our way of lifting up the voices of leaders and innovators in our community. This is the modern classrooms project podcast. Toni Rose Deanon 0:28 Hello, and welcome to episode 189 of the modern classrooms project podcast. My name is Toni Rose Deanon they them pronouns, a designated hype person here at MCP and I'm joined by Ylaiza Perez. they them pronouns. Welcome, Ylaiza. Ylaiza Perez 0:42 Hey, nice to see you all. Toni Rose Deanon 0:47 It's so exciting to be in this space with you. And thank you so much for saying yes to the podcast. I do know you as TP, because when I observed your classroom, your students were calling you TP so listeners, I'll go back and forth but I'll probably just use TP so before we get started, what is bringing you joy currently? Ylaiza Perez 1:05 What brings me joy currently, my dogs, my dogs and walking. I've been you know, I like the nice weather. I don't enjoy the spring as much. You know, allergy season. It's not fun. But other than that the walks has been really nice to see the sun. Toni Rose Deanon 1:22 Yeah. How many dogs do you have? You don't mind me asking. Ylaiza Perez 1:25 Yeah, I have two I have a laptop so and a chihuahua mix. They're both six years old. Toni Rose Deanon 1:31 Nice, did you get them both at the same time? Ylaiza Perez 1:33 No, definitely not. Toni Rose Deanon 1:35 Okay. Yeah, no, that's, that's, that's beautiful. I also have two dogs. And so those are like one was a Craigslist purchase. The other one was a COVID purchase and no regrets. Ylaiza Perez 1:53 They were both like, basically rescue if you consider it like both of my friends were giving away their dogs and I just happened to be in the area. Toni Rose Deanon 2:02 Oh, nice. Okay, so you were able to like, just continue loving on the dogs? Ylaiza Perez 2:06 Definitely. Yeah, they're definitely better. Now for sure. Toni Rose Deanon 2:10 Yeah, that's dope. I mean, I always tell like my coworkers and my friends. Like, I don't know what we did to deserve dogs. But I'm so glad we have them. Ylaiza Perez 2:19 I wish I could show you mine like bathing in the sun right now. Toni Rose Deanon 2:25 Oh, yeah. Yeah. My Labradoodle is like a sunbather loves being outside. So Well, thank you for sharing was bringing you joy currently, it's like one of my favorite questions to ask folks to just kind of get the conversation started. And so tell us more a little bit who you are and how you started your MCP slash your education journey? Ylaiza Perez 2:44 Yeah, um, one thing I was thinking about was like, how I have been dedicating eight years already in education. So for example, like I've been doing multiple roles as a teacher, as a mentor, as a leader as a learner myself. And one of the things that keeps popping up when I think about my educational journey is my grandma like being my biggest cheerleader. And just like her words, in my mind all the time, she used to always say like, there was no Kripa, no cripple than the Crippler itself. And I first I didn't understand what she meant. But I felt like that really, like ignited my passion for like learning and teaching. And then in education in general, I think one thing I have learned is the most effective way to like serve our students is like to make sure that everything that we put in front of them is clear. And then like they fully understand the the what and the why they're learning what they're learning. As talking about MCP, one thing I thought about was like my current my current job right now, I became really curious with the mastery based learning model as we as a public school. Basically, we're doing the mastery base. And then I started the modern classroom project, I got an email got really curious about it. And you know that this approach really resonated with me because it to me, it demonstrates like the effectiveness of the students like ability to gain like a complete picture of like, their math skills or whatever subject that they're doing mastery base in, which will create like, a space for curiosity and commitment for the students learning. Toni Rose Deanon 4:24 I must, I gotta ask, Did you always want to be a math teacher? Ylaiza Perez 4:28 You know, funny enough, I think. I think I always wanted to do something with education. I was always great at math. And when I was seven years old, I thought I wanted to be a math teacher. And as an adult, like no one be a pediatrician. And, and somehow, biology was not my best suit. So I don't know math just kept following me around to be honest, and I really love it. Because I think it really teaches us a lot about like the power of Communication, problem solving, critical, critical thinking, you know, like just structure itself. And I think that's sometimes we don't consider math that like, more than just procedural fluency. Toni Rose Deanon 5:13 You know, you have a really good point there. Because I think this is the first time I've ever heard of math, having this like power of communication. So that in itself is just like mind blowing to think about, right. I mean, I was able to, I had the privilege of coming in and being able to see you in action. And it was so fun, because I was telling my colleagues, like, I don't care about math at all, like at all. It is like one of those things where I'm like, Nah, I'm good. I don't think I need it in life to survive. I'll have a little basic calculator, but the way that you had taught it, I was just like, really intrigued. And also, along with your students, like you taught high school students, and they were all very much like, engaged and having conversations about what y'all are doing. And I was just like, I was really shocked. But I was like, Oh, I'm interested. And this has never happened before. And also, like, I don't know anything about what they're talking about. So I need to like, figure out if the kids can teach me and they could, and it was just such a great, it was such a great environment. And I really liked that you said, you know, when students when it comes to learning that there's got to be, it's got to be transparent, it's got to be clear, right? Like for our, for our kids, for our students to be successful. Our directions, and everything that we're doing, it has to be transparent. And it has to be clear. And if we're confused as adults, our kids are going to be confused as well. Right? And, and I really love that. And I think that's what happens with mastery based too is like you have to kind of be clear with everything that you're doing. Because we're trying to really get what kids know, versus like, not focusing on behavior, not focusing on attendance, not focusing on anything else outside of the actual skill. And it's actually a great like, it's a perfect segue, because this episode is all about mastery based teaching and learning. And so what are some concrete benefits of implementing mastery based teaching in your math classroom? And can you share some success stories that you've experienced so far? Ylaiza Perez 7:11 Yeah, for sure. mastery based teaching, like to me, just like create so many benefits in the classroom, you know, one just like allows students a space to showcase their own learning to, I think there's like, a value of students is learning in their own pace, and like feeling empowered to be like, I'm really struggling here. This is a challenge that I'm having and this skill, and how can I like work through it on my own, like that productive struggle, right? We talk a lot about in math, what does productive struggle look like? But how are we providing the space in the classroom to ensure that our students aren't getting that? So like, I think, through that, we have to think about mastery based teaching as like, how does it create space for growth mindset? And like, and, you know, just like opportunity for growth for for students, you know, and one thing I was thinking about was, I consider like a success story was like, seeing the math rates of students like increase, or students is being able to use the math vocabulary in the classroom was they're having discussion. One before, every time I asked him a question, the answer would have been, I don't know. You know, so like, another one that I think about was like, just student engagement overall, and something you just mentioned right now, was just like the control that they have to, like, understand their learning and not feel like they're being judged by their peers, but mostly like being supported by one another's learning, which I think creates more space for them to really like grow and and like gain that effective feedback that they need, not just from their peers, but from their teachers as well. And last, last thing that I will add, there was like, considering, like, how to how do we I talked about the power of communication and math, right. So one thing I really keep coming back to, while I think about these questions was like, how do we foster active listening in a classroom, and the reality is like, there, it doesn't matter if it's math, math is a universal language. So like any kid can have access to math. That's the way I see it. And you know, as an EL student, myself coming from speaking Spanish and still being able to comprehend the math and not speak in English, like that's a testament to what I know that can happen there. Right? So just like critical thinking, we don't we don't spend enough time thinking about what does active listening look like? What does Critical Thinking look like? And do I really know what I'm talking about? Toni Rose Deanon 9:43 All right. Now, I was writing down a whole bunch of like talking points that you were talking about. You were just kind of sharing and one of the things that I wanted to touch base on is productive struggle. So TP I know that let's define productive struggle. Why don't we right? because I think sometimes our educators and our students see the word struggle. And it's there's a negative connotation to it. Right? So what does a productive? What does productive struggle mean? Ylaiza Perez 10:15 Honestly, in a math classroom, I will say is really about having the curiosity to mess up. And understand that you're not always going to get it the first time around, right? And like I use this example of my students a lot is like a lot of them like playing video games, right? So I asked them the first time they got on fortnite, was it easy for them to figure out how they had to set things up with the controllers or like, learn all these new tricks? And like a lot of them always, as dancers always know. So then I wonder, like, I asked him, What did you do to learn it all? I practice everyday, everyday, everyday. So what do you think you have to do in order to learn anything? Right? productive struggle should like, come with that if I want to become an astronaut, I need to at least learn how to create something with my hands or, like understand a little bit of the science behind it. But I'm never going to learn that if I don't struggle to figure that out. Or think about it in the first place. Toni Rose Deanon 11:10 Right. And I think this, this brings up learned helplessness for me, right, like our students are so use, or they've just mastered learned helplessness, honestly. And I think, right, like as educators, we also don't want them to struggle as much. So we like, Okay, fine. I'll give you the answer. So how do you TP how do you balance that? Like, how do you say like, oh, this, this student is struggling to the point where they're getting frustrated? So maybe I should go and help them out? Or like, how do you know like, No, this is good for them. Let them struggle, and they will, they will figure it out? Eventually? Ylaiza Perez 11:50 Well, I will say, I don't know. It was somehow we got to figure it out. You know, I think one thing I'm joking, but like, one thing I think about often is like there's a student of mine in the class, or you have visited that is always like, I just can't do this, like, oh my god, this is horrible. Like, as soon as he walks into the classroom, he's frustrated. And I let him struggle with it. I'm like, It's all right, buddy. You'll be okay. You know, like, it's alright. Like, try to figure it out, like, sit there, ask yourself some questions. Like, you know, and I think providing that to like, they don't have the capacity to like, create questionnaires like for themselves, like a checklist, like, what is this problem asking me to? Do? You know, like, what is the word that I already know, here? Like, and and I think, like training them to do that, right? Because the reality is that comes with, you can't just expect kids to say, well, I need you to productively struggle, but never show you exactly what that looks like. Right? So in an example is like an exploration lesson, right? Instead of me going ahead and being like, Hey, today, we're gonna learn about exponential functions. Let's talk about how they grow exponentially. Instead of me telling them that on the first day, why don't I just provide them the space to explore something that has to do with multiplying or, okay, let's talk about the pandemic, right. COVID happened? How many people started one person, two people, four people, what do you notice is going on there, right, and like allowing them that space to have that discussion. And now when you're talking about the mathematics of it, they see the conceptual understanding, you know, and I think that we kind of missed that part a lot. Because we're so quick to think like, we ought to reach everything in the content, which I know, that's the next question. So, you know, like, a lot of fear there from teachers, you know, Toni Rose Deanon 13:44 I really liked this. This is something that I tell our educators all the time to, especially when it comes to like guided notes, or even reflections, right? Like, we expect students to already know, right, we're like, oh, the teacher probably already taught them how to reflect and how to take notes. And the reality is, because all the educators think that the previous educator did it, then the real like teaching and learning and support actually does doesn't happen. And so when we think about mastery based teaching and learning, there's a lot of guidance to it, right? And like you said, providing this space for our kids to mess up and to embrace those mistakes. And so I really like this whole concept of like teaching and training our students to ask questions to reflect on what they already know, instead of just like, Oh, they're shutting down, and then we can't provide them any, any any kind of support because they're already shut down. Right? And so I think this is something that I do because I taught middle school English. And so we would have prompts where students had to break down this long prompt and so they get muddled with like all the information they need to know but then I, I, you know, we took a step back and we're like, okay, here are the things let's read the prompt first, what are the words that you know? What, what do you need to do? What do you need to Write about actually and what, what two texts? Or what texts did you have to read, to gather this understanding? So really taking that step back and just like asking ourselves the question, so then we're not overwhelmed with this long prompt, because I don't know why we make long prompts in English, especially in like, standardized tests. But that was just a way to, like, alleviate some of my student stress. And also for me to chunk it right. And so when you said math is a universal language, like I feel like I already know this, but I think I needed to be reminded, and I think our listeners, this is actually a really good reminder to that you're absolutely right, no matter the language, your native language, your home language, whatever language you're coming in, numbers are universal, right? Like, being able to come in there and like understanding Oh, this is what this problem is asking. I love that. Because then there's this like, Oh, I get this part, I get the numbers part I don't get I may not get what like the other words are saying, but I get what the numbers mean. And I think sometimes we also forget that when when our students come in, and they're emergent, you know, multilingual is it's like, oh, but they don't understand anything. And it's like, no, no pause like they do. We all come in with, like, so much knowledge. So thank you for that for that reminder. I appreciate that. So, TP you did mention this, right of just like jumping straight to the content before actually like, hey, let's make this culturally relevant. Let's make this relevant to our students, right, let's really talk about real world problems, so that they can feel so we can build that confidence. I think it's really all about building confidence, right? And so when we think about mastery based learning, some educators might worry that this slows down the curriculum for students. So how can we ensure differentiation and challenge within this framework? Ylaiza Perez 16:52 Yeah, I understand the worry, trust me, you know, like, as a teacher, myself, like I will say, my first year, I was really, like, confused about how it was going to work, and the parameters of what we need to accomplish at the end of the year. But however, like, I still believe, like, with a proper structure, and like, we have enough time to backwards plan, we have to make sure that kids are like really hitting the core concepts of the curriculum, right? Because the reality is that this chunk, math curriculums are really, like diverse and huge. And so many things that we have to accomplish in order for kids, especially if you work in a state or a school in which state exams are given or regions or you live, or, you know, the graduation requirement. Like there's so many factors in there that can like kind of create a little bit of that, like fear for for educators. And I understand that. I will say that, even through that, like, one, one thing that I think that we can do to ensure that like this framework works is like, just like making sure that we're like not just implementing scaffold in the classroom only. But like, how are we implementing modifications and acceleration problems for students, just to like, make the curriculum more accessible, right and challenging at the same time? Because the reality is like, it shouldn't be that the kid that struggled the most at one skill should never be able to reach acceleration. And another one, right, like, it may be that they just need a little bit more time or, but I think providing that to students is really essential. And I think sometimes we get so bogged down on like, what they don't know that we that, that that will that's what we kind of missed the mark. Right? That's where the gap is. Then as educators, I think it's really important that we think about what are our students needs? How are we collecting data and analyzing that data to ensure that we're differentiating structure for them, and also like for each student to reach their individual goals? Because not all students are going to end the same way at the end of the year? At the same stop, or at the same spot? You know, Toni Rose Deanon 18:59 yes, yes to all of that. And I really liked the fact that you said, you know, we I think it's just natural human nature to focus on the negative things, right? So we tend to just focus on oh my gosh, my kids, my students are just not getting it. Or like, my students are really behaving in this negative way. And I don't know how to like, just really, I don't want to say ignoring, but not not being able to acknowledge all the positive things that go along with it as well. Right. So thank you for that reminder. So I have a follow up question of like, okay, you know, we're differentiating, we're creating opportunities for students to accelerate we're modifying right, as an educator yourself, how do you how do you do that? Like, how do you do work life balance of like, you know what, like, I'll be able to differentiate for like all of my students, but I'm also keeping my sanity. Ylaiza Perez 19:52 Yeah, that's a really great question. And I will say it takes years of practice to be able to get there you know, like us. To me this question five years ago, I probably would have been like, there is no work life balance there is not. You know, but like, I think that we're in different times and, and the reality is that once you learn a system that works like, it's just how do you refine it, right? Like, we don't have to start and reinvent the wheel, there are so many great curriculums out there, there's so many great educators that we can take and learn from, right. So it's like, that is where the work life balance kind of comes in. For me. One thing my students always say is, like, funny cause. Now I live around a lot of my students. So like, I see them in the park when I'm walking my dogs after school. And one of my students said the other day, like, why are you always so calm? Like, I just don't understand why you're so calm. Like, why are you not stressed, because I don't know how you do this job. And like a huge, a huge 100%. But it just works. Because I've learned to find my piece and like my purpose in this job, like what I'm doing, and you know, and I think that a lot of the times as educators where we're, we're running, or we're like, you know, let's say that we are, if the tremble, never was able to hit the stop button, we'll just keep going. You know, and I think that is like excitement to want to provide for all kids. But it's also detrimental to our like, growth, because there needs to be a balance there. Like the self care piece of being an educator is, to me is key for me to be able to be successful and provide for my students. And then I want last thing to answer that question that I was thinking about is like, the best way to make the work life balance is less is more, right? Because a lot of the times we think providing our students with four pages of problems is gonna solve them not understanding the first one, like, that's not going to work, you know, and then that's where the backwards planning and intentionality around, what you're putting in providing for students like comes in. Toni Rose Deanon 21:59 Yeah, and I really, this is something that I'm trying to also live in my like, real world life outside of work is that less is more. And I think I also really liked this framing that you said to have, there's excitement, from educators to do all the things. And when I was in the classroom, I was definitely the educator who did all the things and my students would be like, Yo, Ms. D. you're you're literally doing too much. And I would have, we would like read stories, but then I would have like, 20 questions, and it was just ridiculous, right? And so I think like, when you were talking about being more intentional with the questions that we ask our students, right, that the tasks that is that are being put in front of students, the thing that comes up to me is busy work. I think, as educators, we're really good at giving busy work. And, and again, I think it's because of the structures in place, right? Like our students look engaged when they are engaged in this busy work, when it's really just busy work. It's not actually showcasing the mastery of the skill, it's just so that you can get student a to comply, or to look busy or to not misbehave, because you're keeping them busy with the busy work. Ylaiza Perez 23:24 I will say one more piece to that I think like something that you just said right now stood out to me. And it's like so they don't misbehave. So they don't look like they're not engaged. Right. And I think like, that is also the gap that we have been educators, right? Like, where is our most mostly like, you know, we're human beings, but it's like, how do we learn about our own biases around like how kids behave, or how they will show up in the classroom? Because a lot of the times the behavioral management comes from preparation, right? Like, we have to consider that as well, when it we're not like if it's not intentional. That is where the misbehavior comes from. Because the kids aren't, they know that they can pick up on everything, you know, we know you could teach middle school, high school, right? If you could get a high school kid to, like have a conversation or in class or something. And they all know what they're talking about you're winning, you know, but like, if we're just focused on complying compliance, and like, you, are you doing this all the time? Like, that's kind of like, also where, where is that we're going to find the mastery for kids if we're focusing only on their behavior? Toni Rose Deanon 24:32 Yeah, I mean, the students too, right? They'll know like you said, they're very well aware of like, oh, this is just busy work versus this is meaningful work. And so it's like, Oh, you want me to stay busy? Bet. I'm gonna show you I'm not gonna stay busy actually. And then that's like creating more issues in the classroom. So yes, and I'm not I'm not saying this as if like it's educators fault, right? Like it's not educators. It's literally the whole system. the structure in place like how education has been just for years and years and years and years, right. And you talk about backwards planning. And I think one of the biggest things that our community of educators and school leaders really struggle with is the time the time piece, right? They there's, there's a comment comments, or at least like concerns about, like, Oh, if I do mastery based, or if I do self paced, I have to do all of this work, like front load all of this work, I don't have the capacity or time for that, right. And I know that some districts are really good at providing time for teachers so that they can actually backwards plan and not just say that they are. And so it's, it's a struggle, right, like, there's a lot of like moving pieces and a lot of pressure from all over to for educators to perform however, like society wants them to perform, right. And so I think it's really important to name to that, like backwards planning does take a lot of time. And at the same time, it releases, you have more time with your students, like during that time, right. So like, when you backwards plan, it's in the beginning, but then when you're in the classroom, you can actually dive a little bit deeper and get to know your students as human beings, because you already have it set up. Right, you already know what you're going to ask them, you already know what summative and formative assessments that you have for them. So you're not worried about that. And so I do want to, like encourage educators to think about, like, backwards planning is definitely worth it. And I know that time is always a thing. It's we have to we have to make time to backwards plan, I think. And that's a struggle, it is a struggle, it is a challenge. And we can do it, we can do it. Yall. Toni Rose Deanon 26:48 Okay, so tip, how can educators effectively assess student mastery in a way that goes beyond traditional tests and promotes deeper understanding? Ylaiza Perez 26:59 Yeah, I think that like, traditional Tez is like one way, of course, you know, it's important to, like, collect that type of data as well. But there's so many different ways nowadays in which we can promote, like conceptual understanding for students, and like, and one thing I think about is like, active engagement, and how do we create that space in the classroom? When I, the past two years, I've been doing like a Fellowship for Hollyhock. Go into Stanford University was really cool. And it talks about basically like, how do we create equitable instructional practices that create space for equity, a voice in students in the classroom. And one of the things that stood out to me was all the different structures that exist out there for assessing students. For example, one that I really love was like the participation quizzes, right? It's basically you can use it observing student engagement in real time in the classroom as like they're going through the lesson. Right? So perhaps I provide them a question and provide them 10 minutes within their groups to just just just talk about it, like trying to figure out the problem. And you know, just taking notes observing, like, how are they communicating engaging with that. And that gives me an understanding in itself that they actually understand the content. One other one that I really liked was the explanation quizzes. It's more like verbal explanations. And I think that that just creates like, a space for kids to continue to be on their toes, right? Because if I had kid wanted to ask me, like, Is this is this gonna get graded? And I'm like, doesn't matter? Because I know how much your grades matter, but doesn't matter. Now. This is specific worksheets? Well, I'm not like really in the mood. So I want to know, if I'm getting I'm like, you know, I understand that. But it's like, hello, like, you should just want to learn, like, regardless of what the grade at the end, and I think kids do better when they understand why they're learning in the first place. You know, Toni Rose Deanon 28:58 yeah, I really liked that too, right? To kind of gauge the engagement and the deeper understanding, I love a good verbal check in too. I know, when I had mastery checks for my students, there's definitely some students who struggle with writing. And this is something that I was talking at a webinar, I don't know if I repeat myself a lot. And so, but one of the things that I was saying is that, you know, we really have to figure out what skill it is that we're assessing. So sometimes as an English teacher, I'm asking you, what is the theme, but then you can't write it in a complete sentence or complete paragraph. So now I'm taking points off, and it's like, but that wasn't the skill. The writing piece wasn't the skill, the the theme, the identifying the theme was a skill. So I really have to be as an educator, be mindful of what exactly that skill is asking and not just like looking at the other things too, and then taking points off of it, right, like, like you said, biases, right. And also just like how do we make this accessible and also equitable because sometimes as educators, we do things that we don't even really think that we're doing? And then it's like, oh, wait a minute, that's okay. We need to actually like pause on that. Another thing too, that I wanted to point out TP was the way that you had a learning community where students were having conversations with each other and working in groups. And I think sometimes as educators, we forget that that's actually a great way to assess as well, right, it doesn't have to be a quiz or like, a test or anything like that. But you did such a great job of, hey, here's some problems that we're going to work through as a group. So you know, each person has a role in your group. And then you gave them the set of, you know, the set of problems that they were going to look at that we're going to work together, and then you walked around and checked in. But I think that was your way of also assessing Oh, like, this group is struggling or like, this group is getting it like I need to like go hype them up. And I think I also just, like want to remind our listeners that like collaborative work is also a great way to assess student's learning. Ylaiza Perez 31:00 That's right. The best way I will say, you know, because as adults, that's how we learn Ylaiza Perez 31:06 right, and I always tell my, my kids, like, if you can talk about it, I'm good, right? Like, if you can teach someone else about it, that means you've mastered it, I can't say anything, right, like you did it. And they love that. Because then it really gives them that, that power and that autonomy to be like, Oh, here's a skill that I'm learning about Ms. D, probably saying, or teaching it one way, but this is how I understand and now I'm going to share, I'm going to share that with a peer. And then we can have this like collaborative thing of having conversation about it. Another thing too, I sat with a group in your class, and I thought it was so fascinating TP one of the students was just like, I'm really struggling with this, like, I don't know how to do this. And like, his best friend was like, Oh, this is what you do. And then he's like, okay, cool, because you know, like, I don't really feel good about math. And his friend was like, oh, no, you got this. And I was just like, this is beautiful. I love this. And then like you had asked for an answer, right? Like, because you were going over something and you're like, Okay, anyone want to share? And the kid who said that he didn't feel confident about math, raised his hand, and shared his answer because his friend had helped him. And I was like this. This is what we want. Love this. Ylaiza Perez 32:27 Thank you. Toni Rose Deanon 32:29 So whatever, you're doing TP continue doing it. I am obsessed. And I love it. Like literally walking into your classroom reminded me of like, wow, this is, this is why I do what I do. So again, like just thank you for opening up your classroom and just being like, come through and see what I do. And it was just so magical. So thank you. Ylaiza Perez 32:53 You're always welcome. Zach Diamond 32:57 Hey, there listeners. This is Zach just dropping in here quickly to remind you that it is not too late to get a scholarship to the summer mentorship program. There's a link in the show notes where you can apply now to join a group of innovative educators in meeting every learners needs. Just that for you this week. Let's get back into it with Toni Rose and TP. Toni Rose Deanon 33:22 Okay, so let's switch. Let's let's go to another question. mastery based learning emphasizes individual progress. So how can we as educators foster a growth mindset, which is something you've mentioned before, and students who might feel discouraged by initial setbacks? Because, you know, this is something that we, we meaning like educators and students struggle with setbacks. So how do we? How do we? Yeah, how do we foster this growth mindset? And just say, like, hey, like you said, you know, right, there's curiosity, make mistakes, productive struggle. How do we then you know, if we have a student who's discouraged, how can we foster this growth mindset? Ylaiza Perez 34:05 Yeah, I will say like, it's always about checking in as well. Right? So like, even at the door threshold, checking in on the students getting like a gauge on how they're feeling in that moment, because especially when they know they have like a test or quiz coming off. They sometimes already come with that mentality, like, I'm not going to do well into the classroom, right? So how can you catch that a little bit earlier? So you can kind of like, emphasize or even just check in with the student or like, hey, like, I understand the frustration. It's okay. Like, we know, you can persevere through this. And I think I brought up earlier growth mindset, right? Like, that's not something that's just going to happen, like kids are not just going to be like, Hey, I have a growth mindset now, right? Like how do we foster that consistently in the classroom? All right. Well, thing I think that you brought up right now with my student is like, and I, and I'm thinking about the student right now. And I'm one thing that I'm really proud of that student for is like self awareness, like, you know, like, they are able to state, this is where I am struggling, and I'm not good at this, you know, like you bringing that back up, this goes back to my point of productive struggle. And just like our kids understanding, that's part of their growth, you understand? Because one thing, one thing that I always appreciate from my students, when they get feedback, it's like, Thank you for not letting me give. Thank you for not letting me give up. Thank you for believing in me when I didn't, believe and I could do it, you know, unless Teacher Appreciation Week. So it's been nice to receive letters from like, students I taught a year ago, two years ago, like just saying, like, Thank you for for, like, seeing something I didn't see and look at what now I'm in Pre-Calc. And I'm doing wonderful. And, you know, like that, to me is a testament of like, it's not always just about making sure that they're always mastering 100% It is about how do we show them that like, you know, what, you struggled really hardcore, and then we get hit in the year and now you're at 70 80%. Right? Like, that's, that is what where the most growth has happened. And, and that's where we encourage kids to continue to, like, grow and leave that setback behind goodbye. Toni Rose Deanon 36:30 Yeah, I, again, such a nice reminder that we don't want to focus on mastering 100% of the time, I think what I gathered from the response from your response is that really, our students are human beings. And so how do we continue to check in with them as human beings to make sure that they are feeling psychologically safe, right? They're feeling mentally, emotionally and physically so safe in this environment to make those mistakes? Right. And I think, yeah, the checking in like, it's such a, quote, unquote, simple thing to do, right. Ylaiza Perez 37:06 And the hardest to actually do. Toni Rose Deanon 37:07 Actually move that, yeah, that was gonna say, too, it's like the easiest thing to let go of, right? It's not like, it's, it's the first thing to go when we are so overwhelmed with everything that we're doing. And so this this is checking in is so important to just make sure just checking the temperature of how each students each student is doing, right. And I also want to voice to I think, like prior to COVID, that was when I was still in the classroom, there was always a push of 100% engagement, right? Always, like, I remember getting, quote, unquote, in trouble, or like notes that said, like, oh, you only had so many students engaged, and I hated that. And I felt like it was not a sustainable goal to have 100% of the students engaged 100% of the time. And I think when COVID happened, a lot of that has actually just kind of shifted, which I absolutely love. Ylaiza Perez 38:09 Yeah, Toni Rose Deanon 38:09 right. Like you said, focusing on the growth, like some students will probably start at like a 36%. And if they go to a 50%, Ylaiza Perez 38:17 That's growth Toni Rose Deanon 38:18 , bro, what that is, that is cute drew to celebrate that, right? But I think prior it was just like, oh, it's only 50% they didn't reach 70%. That's not really you know, it's still not passing. So we're not going to like celebrate it because they're still failing. And so there's like a push for me anyway, for just educators to just be like, let's take a moment to celebrate, like, this kid really just grew this much. I mean, granted, it's not where like the standards, you know, like where we want or what the school wants, right. But it's still growth. And I love this whole self awareness thing that you brought into TP. I think that's really hard for adults, right? So I always get so excited when I when I when I witnessed it from, from younger kids from younger students, right from younger folks. And I think with the self awareness that there's like this piece of self awareness that your student had, but then there's this extra piece, or this added piece to have of him asking for help. Right? Like, I didn't get stuck on that. Oh, man, I'm really bad at this. It's like, oh, no, I'm really bad at this. And I want help. So let me go get help. And I think this is for all adults, for all human beings. You can be aware all day long. Also, please ask for help. Like, it's really not bad to ask for help. Like it's really actually a strength to ask for help. Ylaiza Perez 39:42 It takes so much to teach kids ask for help, you know, as much as adults as well because at the end of the day, we grow up to become very individualistic in our growth like I have to do this. And I'm a testament of that as well. Funny I was talking about this last night like uh I don't need your help, but like, I actually do, you know, like, you know, and it's like, I'm gonna figure it out on my own, you know? And realistically, like, I think it's that mentality, like, you know, as human beings, we want to feel empowered to do things, everything by ourselves. And the reality is we live in community, we grew up in community, and like, that is where the growth is going to be the most, like, successful to be honest. Ylaiza Perez 40:30 Yeah, and I honestly think it's also just like, the societal like expectations as well, right of us figuring it out on our own. Because I know like, prior to moving to the States, from the Philippines, like I was very much community like base, like, we had a huge family like you were gonna get help, regardless of whether you asked for it or not, like, it was very much community based. But then when I got to the states, it was so different. It was just like, No, you gotta have to figure it out on your own. And there's nothing wrong with figuring things out on your own, right? Like, we love some self directed learning. And at the same time, again, like that, that self awareness of knowing, okay, I've done everything I could, I really need someone's help. So let me just go ahead and ask for that. And I think, at this age for me now, like I'm 36, and I'm like, You got to ask questions, you got to ask for help. Like, you can't do this on your own, like, you cannot do this. And it's also just so much more fun learning, and experiencing things with people anyway. So yes, yes, yes. And yes. Okay, I wanna I want to talk about this reflection tool that you have for students who didn't master something the first time now TP when I tell you, I saw this, and I was like, wait a minute, wait a minute, I've never seen anything like this. This is beautiful. Because we often get questions and comments of like, my students are rushing through the mastery checks, and then they just do it five times, 10 times, and they're still not mastering it. And you've created such a, an in depth reflection tool that even as an adult, I'd be like, Oh, no, I just want to do this one time. I want to do it again. And I think, again, you were so intentional with it. So can you just tell our listeners like about this reflection tool? Because I can't, I'm sure I could talk about it, but you do a much better job of going through it. Ylaiza Perez 42:24 Yeah, for sure. And I will say I'm not gonna take full credit for that. Because our director of STEM at our school right now she she's definitely have put a lot of the work into the research and the planning there. So just want to give her a shout out. So the mastery assignments, like in our school user, like the whole purpose of is just like to provide more opportunities for kids, right? Like, especially if they're not mastering that content. From that unit, they've already taken the quiz they've already, you know, because by then they are we already have enough data to understand like, where the kids are at. One thing I love about the mastery assignment is a reflection piece of it. And I think one thing that the director of STEM had in mind, while creating this piece of document was like, one, how do we create metacognition for kids, for them to like, really reflect on what they learned? What were they confused about in the first place? Right? Like, what's the transferability that they could still use of the knowledge they've already had? And how can they apply it to some a new problem based on their reflection or where they struggled before? And I think in general, like if we all thought a little bit more like that, when we're learning, the world would just be a better place. And, you know, shout out to her, the science brain is beautiful, because it does teach you a lot about the developmental importance of like creating that metacognition for students and for ourselves, right? Because one thing that's really interesting, I always think about, I'm not a good study person, like, I am not great at studying, and I'm an adult, you know, like, I've been in school for years still in school, and studying is not my best suit. And, and, you know, it's funny because I talked to my students about this about the importance of not just trying to remember facts, right? Because that that works only so minimal. It works so minimally, because the way I remember facts may be so much different than the way you do and, and just like we just have to create that reflection piece that self reflection on our own, like, of how do I learn this? And how do I like transfer that knowledge on paper or like on a tennis or, you know, whatever the engagement activity, it is that I'm working on in the moment. And I think that before my first year of teaching, I didn't understand the importance of quizzes, like really understanding on their own, what it is to reflect on what they're learning, right. So like one piece we were using in the classroom recently is like I used to know, no, I didn't know now I know. Right? So it's like providing because let's face it, just really think about how they're implementing and what they're learning. And I, honestly, I will say that is the one part that at my school, like a lot of teachers struggle with these assignments, mastery assignments, they're like, it just creates opportunity for kids not to be consistent in and like, you know, I can understand where that comes from, too, right. Everything has its challenges, and its perks, because kids figure out the system to a certain extent, but you know, at the same time as like, if the system is consistent, and you know, we all hold the same bar, the same line as to how we provide these mastery assignments for students like, there will be no room for them to just use this, just like get my grade up at the end, or, you know, like, it will really be like, Listen, I'm really struggling here, please give me a mastery assignment. So I can figure it out. You know, like, that's kind of what you want. Like, I don't bring up mastery assignments to my students, they know they're available. They are available as soon as they take their quiz. But unless they are aware, and I provide them the space, it's like self reflect on how they did, they're not going to be like, Hey, I'm really struggling here, I should probably work on a mastery assignment. You know, and it goes back to what we're talking about. When it comes to routines, right? Like, routines are key. And, and inconsistencies create imbalances in classrooms, for kids and for us as adults, because the reality is, like, as an educator, we're talking about this work life balance, and how do we create that work life balance is impossible. If we are always trying to make everything new, or like, there, there, there needs to be a new way, you know, because a lot of the time, the reason why we feel like there always needs to be a new way is because we then work on the way we were trying long enough. Like there's not enough data to even stay at work. You know, and I think that if that's the biggest gap, I will see that happens in schools. Oh, you know, the, this year we're using I am next year, we're using next generation, like, you know, it's beautiful. I love the growth. And but I think that consistency is key for the betterment of our teachers and students, right? Like, we want them to learn. And like in order for kids to learn, we need to have educators are excited to also like, learn what they're like doing. So. Toni Rose Deanon 47:33 Yeah, I mean, you just, again, brought up a lot of things, right? One of the things that I always say is that when you're super passionate about what you're teaching, then your students become passionate about what they're learning. And I know that that definitely came through when when I saw you teach, like you were just really passionate about it, like you had a really good pace with your students. And the students knew that you were engaged with the work that y'all were doing. And I think that that's really powerful. And I know that this is something that I've said on the podcast before, but your mood and the way that you navigate in that space really impact all of the students moods and their beliefs about themselves as well, right. And so when you show up believing in your students, and you show up really excited and passionate about the things that you're teaching, then the students will also pick up like, Okay, this is actually kind of cool. This is actually like, just as exciting as you said it would or like some kids, you know, it just some students will just be like, This is why are you so excited about this, but then really, they love it. So I think I completely agree with you when you say the inconsistencies bring imbalance. And I was just chuckling at the thought of you saying like, one year we're doing this curriculum, and the next year, we're doing another curriculum. And that's, yeah, I got nothing for that. Except that like, one it's not, we don't get instant gratification in education, we really have to stick with like something to see, to see it work. And like you said, there's iterations that we need to do, there's refinement that we need to do. But like implementing something for one year, it's not enough to actually see the data of the impact of that thing that we implemented. Right. So thank you for for naming that. Also, shout out to your director of STEM. Thank you for that like reflection tool. I was like, Oh my gosh, this is great. And I also wanted to name to that there was like one part and that reflection tool TP that I just like chuckled because it was just so great. But one of the question asked, in your own words, what was the feedback that was given to you? And I was like, I needed that question when I was in the classroom because I give so much feedback and my students do not did not read it prior to like me implementing this model. They didn't read my feedback. So just to be like Hey, just repeat back or like, in your own words, what did I say? What was the feedback? And what can we do? Better? Right, like moving forward. So I really love that question just to make sure that they're understanding exactly the feedback that was provided for them, which I was like, wow, that was an easy peasy question that I could have also added on my like, metacognition tool. So thank you for that. Just yeah, I'm excited. Shout out to your director of STEM because that was brilliant. I was just like, wow, I want this just for my own life, actually. Alright, so TP, what do you hope to see in the future? And what goals do you have this can be professional, personal, whatever you want to share with the listeners, Ylaiza Perez 50:42 I'll share one of each because I think it's really fun. I will say personal. I'm actually really excited about this podcast coming out. I will say one thing my students always say that like, why don't you just get on tick tock or like, talk about life? Like, you're just so good at talking? Right. And, and I think right now that I'm kind of manifesting that. So thank you so much for having me. I don't know about doing podcasts consistently. But who knows? Who knows, you never know. I think I'm a good talker. I could talk for days, maybe I'll be on TedTalk; I'll be on TedTalk one day. That's one thing I see hope and a future manifestation. But right now, I will say like, professionally, you know, I'm doing a master's in education, in educational leadership. And, like, so in a program like asking aspiring principal, I'm not sure like to be principal right away. But like, I'm really excited to just like, explore new opportunities in education. You know, like, Assistant Principal department? Yeah, who knows, I don't know what that looks like, at the moment, but I'm just really excited. I think, I think one thing I have gathered, like, in general, in the past few few months is like, the importance of like, really understanding growth, like your own growth and, and not not becoming stagnant in life, just because you're comfortable. And I think that's something that I hope to entail on all my students, right, like, if you're too comfortable, it's time to move forward and, and, you know, continue to grow and learn, and I'm so grateful for everything I've like been able to accomplish so far. So hopefully, that that comes to them. as well. We're excited. Toni Rose Deanon 52:24 We're gonna manifest all of that TP. And I will definitely be a follower on your TikTok. Whenever you create one, if the US doesn't end up banning it. So we will manifest that I think that I would have to agree with your students, you have a lot to say your experiences and your perspective are really, really impactful. And so like, do what you want, do what you can with that superpower of yours. And I'm just again, like really appreciative of you taking this time to, to share with our listeners about your expertise and experiences. So I'm really, really grateful for you. So TP one last question. How can our listeners connect with you? Ylaiza Perez 53:06 Yeah, definitely. You can reach out on LinkedIn, Ylaiza Perez. I'm definitely a LinkedIn person and love LinkedIn. Definitely. And also my Instagram my poetry Instagram is available at Ylaiza Perez as well. Everything Ylaiza Perez. You'll find me on there. Toni Rose Deanon 53:27 Wait a minute, you write poetry? Ylaiza Perez 53:29 Oh, that's my other superpower spoken word. Toni Rose Deanon 53:34 See, beautiful, beautiful. You have lots and lots of really cool skills here. TP. Okay, well, thank you so much again for being here and spending time with us. listeners. Remember, you can always email us at podcast at modern classrooms.org. And you can find the show notes for this episode of podcast at modern classrooms.org/ 189 will have this episodes transcripts uploaded by Friday, so be sure to check back to access those. Also we are asking your listeners to leave a review of this podcast has been helpful in supporting you to create a human centered learning environment through a blended self paced and mastery based model. It does help other folks find it. Thank you all for listening. Have a great week, and we will be back next Sunday. Thank you so much TP. Ylaiza Perez 54:15 Thank you so much a pleasure. Zach Diamond 54:22 Thank you so much for listening. You can find links to topics and tools we discussed in our show notes for this episode. And remember, you can learn more about our work at WWW dot modern classrooms.org. And you can learn the essentials of our muddle through our free course at Learn dot modern classrooms.org. You can follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram at modern class proj. That's p r o j we are so appreciative of all you do for students in schools. Have a great week and we'll be back next Sunday with another episode of the modern classrooms project podcast.