Zach Diamond  0:03  
Welcome to the modern classrooms project podcast. Each week, we bring you discussions with educators on how they use blended, self paced and mastery based learning to better serve their students. We believe teachers learn best from each other. So this is our way of lifting up the voices of leaders and innovators in our community. This is the modern classrooms project podcast.

Toni Rose Deanon  0:28  
Hello, and welcome to episode 152 of the modern classrooms project podcast. My name is Toni Rose Deanon and she they pronouns, the Community Engagement Manager here at MCP, and I am joined by other co hosts Zach Diamond. Hi, Zach.

Zach Diamond  0:40  
Hey, Toni Rose, it's so good to be back together on the podcast. It's been forever. 

Toni Rose Deanon  0:45  
Forever. I feel like you and I were talking about this. And we were like, Wait, it's been a while. And I was like, oh, we need a guest. And we were like, No, we're just gonna do this ourselves.

Zach Diamond  0:55  
Yeah, yeah, it's a great topic. And I'm gonna have to go, but I'll link it in the show notes. Whatever the last episode that you and I did together, it might have been like, last year. It's been such a long time. I'm so excited to be back recording with you on the mic.

Toni Rose Deanon  1:08  
I mean, it's so wild. That's so wild to to even think about. And just the amount of work that we've done with the podcasts. And just like how we've just continued to elevate people or educator voices anyway. So yeah, again, like you said, I'm so excited to be in this space with you. And it's been forever. And here we are back at it again. When you bring up resistance, like I love that, that whole concept of like resisting an oppressive system, because a lot of our systems here are very much based off of oppression, right. And so when I was thinking about this, thinking about like, when I was back in the classroom and the beginning of the school year, and I am implementing this blended, self paced, mastery based instructional model, right. And so there's a lot of questions about it. And we're still getting a lot of questions from our community as well of like, how do you manage or navigate conversations that basically are with folks who are resistant to this kind of transformational change, right, like this kind of instructional model? Like, there's just a lot of like, no, that's not going to work? Or I think you should go back to what you were doing before, or that's not how we do things. And so that's kind of how I came up with this wording and how I was like, Zack, we kind of have to have this conversation, because it's a thing.

Zach Diamond  2:26  
Your next question in the, in the document here gets into the sort of emotions of this. And I don't mean to start getting ahead of ourselves here. But like the, the thing that came to mind for me, and I'm not exactly sure this is an emotion, but it's impostor syndrome. It's like, okay, I'm in the classroom, I teachers do this thing, right? Teacher seats. I know what teachers do. But I'm not doing that my students seem to like it. I'm a lot happier. They seem to be learning, but I'm not doing it the way I'm supposed to. This is the question that made me reinterpret the word resistance as sort of like, the resistance within me to try something new. Right. And I think that what it is, then is, I guess the emotion would be fear, right? Fear that I'm not teaching the right way. Or that I'm not a good teacher, or that there are teachers who weren't who are better than me at managing classrooms. And so that's the emotion that came to mind. And that's also where this idea of impostor syndrome came from, for me, because it's like, you know, that my, in my mind, I, even though I'm working so hard to implement this model and to, you know, share this model, obviously, here on the podcast. And as a mentor, we do this work, because we think the model is right. And I do truly believe that, but I still have to sort of fight against this inner voice that says, You're not lecturing to them.

Toni Rose Deanon  3:51  
As a society, we've just normalized what is expected of teachers, right? Like, we get so many opinions about what teachers should be doing, from folks who are not teachers. And so we see that all the time, especially with the pandemic that happened, right, like, what were the expectations that people had of teachers during that time? And it's like one of those things where it's like, it's actually not realistic, y'all. How about y'all do this? Like, you know, and it's kind of like one of those things where you know, that people have eyes on you that cut. That's either your students are watching you, your families are watching your school leaders are watching you, and there's this unspoken expectation that you just follow the norm. Yes. Right. And that you don't really want to like, rock the boat too much. And that's something that I've just always told. Educators that I've worked with is like, when you have someone resisting, right, that means that they're paying attention and Let's embrace the fact that they're paying attention. And, and sometimes I know and we get resistance, again, our human nature response is to be defensive, right and to create this wall of protection, and then just start putting blame on everyone else. Because that's the easiest, that's the easiest thing to do. Right? And what's harder is taking a step back and catching those thoughts, right? And like, self reflecting on like, Okay, what, you know, just kind of like approaching with empathy is what I'm saying, too, is like, why are people resisting? And I think when we think about emotions, too, and how that shows up in the learning environment, like, you and I have been in the classroom for many years, and you and I know that like, in the beginning of the school year, there's a lot of emotions, especially for educators, right? Like, Hey, am I gonna do well, am I excited, I am excited. But I'm also I'm nervous. I'm also anxious. I'm also tired. I'm also restless, I'm also frustrated. And all of these emotions are valid and can show up.

Zach Diamond  6:09  
I had a mentee, I think it was the first summer institute. So with that 2021 to two years three, well, three summer Institute's ago, now. He was a ceramics teacher. And at the outset, he was basically like, this is not going to work. My students are working with their hands, they have clay on the wheel, like they're doing this very hands on thing, and I can't have them watching videos. And by the end, we've worked a lot, obviously on this. And I really try and accommodate my, my mentees as as much as possible. Because I do trust teachers with their content. I know nothing about teaching ceramics. So I was going to take him at his word. But I also wanted to be like, you know, the fact of the matter is, your students are going to need different amounts of time to master this content. And so by the end, he actually really was into it. Coming to understand that I can break away from the norm, I can disrupt I can, and this was my interpretation. But I can resist that norm, I can do something different. And it's still okay, I can I can change how this is working, change can be hard. And change can be scary. But change can also be very, very good if it's in services, while learning. Especially this one, this one is trickier for me when I think about like parents who are resistant to the model parents and guardians. That one is harder for me. Sometimes I hear their concerns and their concerns almost convinced me right, they're valid concerns. Like a student who is a student who is normally a very high performing student who gets high good grades, right? All of a sudden struggling with self pacing, and their grades come down a little bit. Well, what's within my locus of control is the monitor classrooms model that I'm implementing, right. But like, beyond my locus of control, there's a whole world that's going to look at their grades, when they get out of school, you know, maybe not so much in middle school music, but like, parents tend to be concerned about their students grades, not because of me, right, but because of the sort of world of grades that has built, built itself up around schools and education for so long. And so it's like, I look for what the frustration is, you know, and I try and think about like, what, what can we do, like, I'm not going to change the model, the model is happening in my classroom, that is within my locus of control. And I can tell you, my class is a modern classrooms class, through and through. But can we address the frustration? Is there something the student can do to bring their grades up within the model that I'm more or less imposing on them from the parents perspective?

Toni Rose Deanon  8:56  
If I'm feeling a big emotion, I either put like, I put a timer on my phone, right? I'm like, Okay, I have five minutes to feel this or three minutes to feel this, and then I have to release it, right? Because in the beginning of the school, you're gonna get a lot of questions, you're gonna probably get a lot of pushback as well, if you're just if you're implementing this at a brand new school, or if you're just implementing it this year, you may get a lot of pushback, and that's okay. Right. I know, like thinking about like things. What's the phrase? It's like, No, it's not personal, right? But we tend to think it is. And so I think like giving that time and space for our emotions to just be and not like, overthink, or analyze why we're feeling the way that we're feeling. And so like, I really love this, this usage of a timer for me, just so that I know that I'm, I'm, you know what, here's a feeling and so I did that with my students as well, especially with my students with large emotions coming in. So I'm like, Hey, you have three minutes like go do what you got to do, right to like regulate yourself because all of what you're feeling is valid, and I'm going to give you the time and space to do it. as well. And so especially with the beginning of the school year, like students are also re trying to adjust to coming back to school as well. And then having to learn your ways of how you teach and what rules and expectations you have in the class. And then also thinking about like, some of our students have seven to eight classes that they have to adjust to.

Zach Diamond  10:23  
Yeah, and I think something to add here that I think is important, since our topic is resistance. I think that it's we have to be realistic and understand that our students are going to be resistant to coming back to school, whether it's separate and apart from modern classrooms, there's just resistance to ending the summer for them. Right. And so that also is a genuine emotion, they're feeling that and I don't think that we as their teachers, can, can we, in a self respecting way, we can't stand up and tell them don't feel that you're back at school now. You know, toughen up. This is also something that came up on the on the previous podcast with Paul and humanizing teaching. Like, that's not, that's not going to happen. You know, sometimes adults are right, and sometimes adults say silly things like that. Which, you know, don't say that. When you talk about decolonizing, emotions, or decolonizing education, what I think of is that sort of, I imagine, like a structure, like a systemic set of values and approaches and ways of teaching that that oppress our students, and fighting that working against that structure, trying to tear it down, trying to use different approaches, alternative approaches, obviously, like the modern classrooms model. That's what I think of when you use those words, right. And making a space for students to feel emotions, is I think, like, it's fundamental. I think, like, what what often goes unacknowledged is that students have emotions about that structure, right? That's what I was saying before, like, they have feelings about being in school. And, you know, we often wonder, like, Why are students don't feel like they belong in school, but we also, you know, we take their phones away, and we yell at them sometimes. And we do all these things that are like, you know, it's not, it's not the way that you treat a person when you want them to feel positively.

Toni Rose Deanon  12:25  
Yeah, listeners definitely, like, give time and space for your emotions, it really is okay, to have all the emotions that you have and resistance, it just means that there's a lot of emotions behind that resistance. And so giving a lot of grace and patience to yourself as you feel those emotions and that resistance, and also giving grace to everybody who's in who's involved in a child's learning journey. Listeners remember, you can always email us at podcast at modern classrooms.org. And you can find the show notes for this episode at podcast at modern classrooms.org/ 152. We'll have this episode's recap and transcript uploaded to the modern classrooms blog on Friday, so be sure to check their check back in the show notes for this episode, if you'd like to access those. Thank you all so much for listening. Have a great week, and we'll be back next Sunday. And as always, that this is just so much fun doing this with you.

Zach Diamond  13:19  
Yes, I had so much fun. This was a great episode. Yay. Thanks, Tony rose.

Toni Rose Deanon  13:24  
Yeah, thank you. I'll talk to you later.

Zach Diamond  13:30  
Thank you so much for listening. You can find links to topics and tools we discussed in our show notes for this episode. And remember, you can learn more about our work at WWW dot modern classrooms.org. And you can learn the essentials of our model through our free course at Learn dot modern classrooms.org. You can follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram at modern class prize. That's p r o j we are so appreciative of all you do for students in schools. Have a great week and we'll be back next Sunday with another episode of the modern classrooms project podcast.